Posted on September 13, 2014 by ADMIN

Arsenal v Man City review – 2 stunners from Gunners but just a point

This was the first time that the new lok Arsenal had a chance to put to bed the questions about their big game mentality, with the visit of the reigning Premier League champions Man City to the Emirates stadium. Arsene Wenger, with his new pacy front line including Danny Welbeck and Alexis Sanchez, had vowed to go for it.

And the players certainly began the game in a really ppsitive way, dominating the play and causing City serious problems. But you need to be able to finish your moves and Welbeck was inches away from the opener as his dink beat Joe Hart but came agonisingly back off the post. Ramsey still looks off the pace to me and his shooting was woeful.

You need a bit of luck as well and it was Man City who got it, with a good tackle in the middlre somehow turning into the perfect ball for Navas down the right with lots of space to find Aguero in the middle. THat hurt us and helped City to settle and gave Wenger a lot to do at halftime.

But the second half was just as frustrating for Arsenal, who started brightly again but had no real cutting edge. And just as I was starting to really shout at the TV and tell Wenger to make some changes, up stepped Jack Wilshere to equalise with one of his typically sublime pieces of play. It was fitting that Jack got the goal because he was probably our best player.

One of the other contenders was Alexis Ssanchez, whose tireless work rate matched his attacking prowess, and his finish for the second was a real peach, volleying it unstoppably past Hart. Then it was all about holding on, although Ramsey should have made it safe after a great lobbed through ball from Wilshere.

And after Debuchy went off injured, our old weakness from the corner allowed Demichelis to head them level. It was a bit of a blow to not win after a great comeback, but it could have been worse as Dzeko hit the post in extra time so all things considered, it was a good point for the Gunners.

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350 thoughts on “Arsenal v Man City review – 2 stunners from Gunners but just a point

  1. john0711

    Fab 4 games 6 assists enuf said

    If nothing else we should of signed him to stop Chelsea signing him

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 73 Thumb down 27

    1. rd_gunner

      when i said this 3 months back, people ripped into me saying- what did we win with him during his stay here? That’s not the point, the point is we could have had him and made ozil fight for the cam position. Very difficult decision for wenger but more than anyone wenger knew what he can bring to a competing team.

      Opinions divided. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 20

    2. seancali

      get over fabregas for f…ks sake…

      go and support chelsea if your so in love with him…how about Alexis 3 games 3 goals???ouh said

      Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 107 Thumb down 9

      1. rd_gunner

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        Out of tune?. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 39

    3. Mesut O-thrilled

      or maybe he should’ve acted like Xabi Alonso and signed to some other league to protect his BPL legacy. Or suck it up and stay at Barca!

      Great player and world class, no doubt. But so f*cking hypocritical.

      Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 4

        1. ubandoma

          Can Arsenal pay Fabregas 200,000 a week which he is currently reveiving now at Chelsea?

          Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    4. JAHVID

      I’ve said this before and everybody and their mother slated me saying all sorts of stuff. Could the addition of another world class midfielder really hurt us? Even if it meant just stopping Chelsea from getting him! I honestly dont care how he forced his way out of Arsenal to Barcelona…another world class player who WINS games can only make your side better. He could’ve been our prodigal son! And as much as he wanted to play for his boyhood club….NOBODY [not even Wenger] can deny that he truly loved Arsenal!

      Im a big OZIL fan….and Germany overall….but Ozil is such a lazy footballer its not even funny!!!! Today I saw even Sanchez throw his hands in the air out of frustration because of him. BTW adapting to the PL and having a low workrate is two complete separate issues…Sanchez proves this!! I can bet if it was ANY other manager…Ozil would’ve been subbed. And what has Ozil done to be played on the wings? Seriously??? This reminds me of Wenger playing Rambo out wide until he finally remembered that he was a CM.

      IMO today was a lost!!!

      Opinions divided. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 14

    5. Wazzzimbo

      LOL City scum hashing out all sorts of garbage from their keyboards. ‘Arsenal’s MOTM was Mark Clattenburg’, ‘Wilshere is a diving cheating smoker’… sigh, just when I thought there was some mutual respect between two sets of fans. Their fans are as s*it as those down the lane, look forward to pummeling them at the Emptihad.

      Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 3

  2. Matt

    I’m annoyed we yet again couldn’t win a big game against a big team, not even at home, it’s 2 points lost rather than 1 gained in my opinion. Positives, Wilshere looked amazing, Sanchez looks incredible. As for Ozil, to be honest I think we should have just done an Ozil for Cesc swap with Barca, Ozil just looks so lacklustre and frankly, shit. I shall we at our game home to Spuds in 2 weeks and expect nothing less than all three points. Once again our problems are highlighted in the DM position and Centre back, Mertesaker is too slow now and switches off, I think next summer we go and buy a top top CDM and a top top Centre back, those are our two positions we are weakest in. I’d also like to comment on the fact it’s typical that we got an injury in this game, we cannot ever get through one game without an injury it’s rediculous.

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 50 Thumb down 6

    1. seancali

      come on guys, we played the champions. They are the best side in BPL. we put on a hell of a fight IMO. well done lads. If only we had Carvalho instead of flamini in the line up it would have been different. overall well done and it is not a result that should make us upset. We are still unbeaten this season and that is a positive.

      Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 66 Thumb down 6

      1. Tas

        I agree, there was a lot of positives we can take from this game that Sanchez my god he was amazing,

        Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 54 Thumb down 0

        1. seancali

          SANCHEZ will get better and better…there were a lot of positives to take from the game. Jack looks to be back to his best, sanchez was amazing, welbeck looks great and we came from a goal down against the champions

          Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 47 Thumb down 1

    2. proffetic

      I thought I was the only one on Mertesackers case. We will never win while he is in our team. He is painfully slow and always out of position.I can’t think of any other premier team who would want him. I have to say he is the worst CB we have ever had and Wenger has found some real pups in the past. Viz second MC goal, not only was he out of position by at least 4 yds but he actually ducked to avoid the ball. Young Chambers is far better but he is needed for at least 3 other positions. As for Arteta and Flamini,. is this some kind of French humour. Spare us please and shame on you for allowing your arrogance and pitiful stubborness to spoil what has the makings of a very good team. If they do come through it willbe despite and not becaus of you…

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

  3. Gunoor

    Great fast game. We were great in the first 25 mins but after the sucker-punch we were a bit rattled but kudos to our guys for keeping their heads and not feeling down but kept fighting. Sanchez and Wilshere were great. Pity Danny did not managed to get his goal. I’m sure if that had gone in, it will be a different story for us. But today Ozil seems to make a lot of miss passes. Ramsey was also not at his best. I think under these circumstances, Arsene shd replace Ozil so that he i.e Ozil, can be made to realize that he is not performing to his best or that the game need to change in a different direction. I saw the Chelsea vs Swansea game, and we can see that when things are not working that well, Mourinho would immediately make changes fast, from the start of the 2nd half. Why can’t Wenger do the same rather than sticking to a non-performing Ozil or when the game is not up to expectations? Ozil on his day can be superb, but sometimes we just Arsene need to be more firm in putting across the message when a player is not at his best and in Ozil case today, even a liability with his frequent miss passes! By the 70th min he still did not make any changes and give players like Oxlade, or even Cazorla or Roscicky to make some impact in changing the tone of the game. I really exasperated with this aspect of Arsene management during a game nowadays!

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 45 Thumb down 1

    1. almostawinner

      cazorla for ozil v dortmund.
      maybe sub in ozil at 60th min.
      why does wenger not sub in fresh players???????????????

      Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0

  4. GOONSTER

    To all those people that keep going on about moving OZIL in his favorite #10 position.. Have you guys just started watching the EPL? So you think moving a lazy, weak and not bothered player into the red hot EPL midfield will cover for his deficiencies? smh..

    It’s safe to keep that type of player on the wing as you can get away with it sometimes with him there, but moving such a player into a hot boiling EPL midfield where we have tough/hard tackling midfielders would suit Ozil? If he is moved in there we would absolutely get over run, over powered and the opposition will just keep running through our spine, trust me..

    Against Fernandinho, Lampard, Fernando, Yaya, Ball players like Silva, Nasri, Aguero through the middle would expose your midfield if you have weak players in there..

    Simple..

    Opinions divided. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 16

    1. RSH

      Finally someone with a brain.Ozil vs Fernandinho, who’s going to win?

      Opinions divided. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 16

      1. Jimbeam

        So we buy what is generally considered one of the top 3 number 10s in the world and we play him in the wings because of Fernandinho?

        The guy was threading passes to the likes of DiMaria, Ronaldo and Benzema all day long, play him where he belongs, play fast forwards in front of him and if he doesnt perform then judge him not before.

        Watch him play behind, Sanchez, Welbeck and Theo for 5 games and then we’ll talk.

        Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 65 Thumb down 2

            1. RSH

              why you so afraid of the truth. I cant name off the bat 5 No.10’s who are better, really not hard either. Oscar, Coutinho, Cazorla, Gotze, Silva, mkhitaryan… Maybe a few years ago Ozil was but were talking bout now and Ozil has been poor

              Rate this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 10

        1. juhislihis

          Yeah, and it was not like Wenger didn’t know what kind of player Özil would be (concerning his “laziness”). He knew exactly what he would get when he bought him. His job is to create chances as a central attacking midfielder where he has always played. Funny he was good enough to create chances for Ronaldo, Di Maria etc. but he’s disposable for Wenger to be ruined at the wing.

          It’s funny the fickleness of some fans here. Not long a go it was Wilshere who was not good enough for Arsenal, Giroud got the blame until he got injured, Ramsey before summer of 2013.

          Who decided to play the whole season with Ligue 2 Sanogo and Giroud who’s clearly best being 2nd choice? Who’s choice it was to bench Podolski in 12-13 when he was leading the league in assists? Who’s choice it was to put Özil on the wing, while we have OX, Podolski and Campbell all capable of playing there?

          Accommodate Wilshere – that’s okay. Then bench Özil, it’s called rotation. But why the f*ck does Wenger have to play players CLEARLY out of position? It happened with Arshavin as well. Wenger single-handedly ruined his career.

          Ask any true Real Madrid fan how often they played Özil on the left wing, ask them how much he tracked back and ask did he make up his inability to defend in accomplishing the most amount of assists in whole Europe?

          Put someone like Zlatan on the wing and see how he does. Or maybe Ramsey? Would love to see Aaron on the flank where he has probably never played and then all the fickle fans can recall the -10-12 memories and start the hate where they left off.

          Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 0

        2. rd_gunner

          Fair enough! he needs to be played centrally but what’s worrying is his attitude and his willingness to fight..even in this game he got central on quite a few occasions and every time he looked hesitant to make the final pass, he delays and delays and delays some more before someone makes a tackle and steals the ball from him (or he makes a misplaced pass)..I am not sure if his flaws will suddenly disappear when he plays cam but he should be played there.

          Wenger should try out Ozil and Wilshere combo in midfiield and give Aaron some rest, and for FFS let’s give the campbell guy some game time –

          Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

        3. GOONSTER

          Best #10 in a world? I hope that you know that the EPL is a completely different animal.. You can be the best #10 in La Liga where you don’t have players like Barry, Showcross, Yaya, Fernandinho, Matic, Mikel, McCarthy, etc.. Small teams have massive tough tacklers and Ozil is like a turtle, went he senses a hard game he is stright back into his shell hiding..

          Rate this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 10

          1. almostawinner

            play ozil in his best position, or REST HIM.
            then he can play CAM against dortmund & be fresh.

            the way wenger did it, ozil will not be fresh for dort + he cant/didnt contribute much from the left in this game either.
            ozil will never be good on the left.
            would’ve been far better putting in ox or campbell there.
            WHY DOES WENGER PLAY PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION???????

            Rate this comment: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

      2. rd_gunner

        so what do u do? sell him? coz he ain’t gonna cut it as a winger..he is killing us!

        Rate this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  5. luvdaguns

    stop complaining folks, we played em straight up, and they are favorites, if we scored in stoppage to draw, we would be going nuts, we saw an arsenal on the pitch that is facinating, potent, fast, and we got sanchez to bring his incredible talent and work rate for years! all good,

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 1

    1. seancali

      thank you. someone with a little brain in his head. WE PLAYED THE CHAMPIONS AND PUT ON A GREAT FIGHT. WELL DONE LADS

      Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 3

  6. ritblitz

    Ozil needs to be checked if he is on dope or drugs… Can’t run but only jogs…… Runs for Germany only..

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 9

  7. Matt

    The other annoying thing is we can only draw at home to big teams, I wouldn’t mind it so much if it weren’t for the fact that every single time we go away to the big teams we get demolished, when we go to the Etihad, I bet we loose 3-4 nil, perhaps more…

    Opinions divided. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 14

  8. royalman

    Chelsea is on fire, anyway draw against City not bad, our team needs improvement.

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2

    1. Mesut O-thrilled

      Chelsea look good. But one thing I’ve noticed is that they are conceding way more goals than last year. It’ll prob come back to haunt them.

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  9. Mick The Gooner

    Starting to think the only thing that will get rid of this ‘low on confidence’ Özil is for Perez to phone him up and tell him he regrets selling him.. The guy just won the World Cup for goodness sake, what more does he need? He should be played in the middle but regardless of where he played, he was simply not good enough today.

    Should be on the bench against Dortmund in my opinion, Wilshere earned the CAM spot today. Putting him on the bench may hurt his confidence, but it’ll fuel his desire. That’s what I think he really needs.

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2

    1. RSH

      very true. You dont really need a confidence boost when you’re fresh off a world cup win. He just hasnt been play well enough to warrant a starting position, Simple.

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

      1. almostawinner

        if we play him in the center, i think ozil will do fine (or at least much better).
        right now he’s just a passenger and it’s sad to see +
        it must be pissing campbell right off.

        if we had campbell/ox on today instead of ozil in a bad position, we’d have seen 5% more from arsenal: maybe enough to win.

        Rate this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    2. TH14atl

      American football analogy: Patriots buy Peyton Manning and have Tom Brady. They decide to play Peyton manning at running back, while playing Brady at Quarterback. Manning plays like crap, Brady plays great. Fan response? The way manning played today Brady has earned the quarterback spot.

      How idiotic does that sound? Pretty dumb?

      Good, cause that’s exactly what you’ve said. “Mesut is playing so poorly on the wing, that Jack has earned the attacking mid spot.”

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  10. jibber

    Ozil…he needs to figure out his game again i think, let cazorla play a few games, bench him and use him as a sub.

    He’s probably lost at this point wondering what his role in the team really is, Something Mertesacker needs to set straight with him perhaps.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  11. Brada b

    Welbeck have someting to prove I can see it waits till he get hiz grove & chemistry wit the tm & #14 comes back ……U GO WELBECK !!! COYG

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

  12. Renard

    Stop moaning about how Wenger should have signed Cesc.

    Why is Fabregas so good for Chelsea ? Because he’s paired with Nemanja Matic, the best DM in England by a mile. We don’t have that kind of player, and that’s where Wenger f-cked up : we need a powerful and technical DM ASAP.

    Cesc can’t play that role, just like Wilshere and Ramsey can’t play that role. Signing him would have been a waste of money. We should have gotten Schneiderlin early though, he’s brilliant …

    Top Gooner!. Agree or not?: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 3

  13. sparkles

    IMO, Wenger is to blame for not winning this match. After we went 2-1 up and before the equalizer, he should have replaced Ozil with MA8 and play 2 DM with focused passing through the middle with JW10 behind DW23. Nonetheless, good game for JW10, AS17 and NM18. Danny also had a good debut.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 4

  14. Onochie

    AW is just a disappointment since the start of this season,somehow I felt he shouldn’t have signed a contract Extension. Just pity the home fans/players watching a stubborn man. What Happened to some players? Ros,Campb,Ox. Does it means they are not fit,strong,or technical enough to start a league together. We would have to live with till hopefully someone on the wenger’s favourite list gets injured. If we continue like this,we can’t and would never meet up to Top four.

    Opinions divided. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 9

  15. Ronny331

    Haven’t watched it yet but pleased for JW getting on the score sheet and home or away I’ll take a point against city 🙂 sounds like ozil had a mare again, we need to get him bulked and fired up, I want to see some fight, desire and agression from him not the gentle but happy little flower that comes across!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  16. Ronny331

    Can we all please get over fabregas and stop mentioning his name on here? He pushed hard to leave us in a disresptful way, he’s gone and can no longer be ours lets focus on the present and future not the past!!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6

  17. Simon_MrMac

    Every player can have a bad day – Ozil and Ramsey did today-

    Ramsey’s was a glitch, I know he will be back to best soon. But Ozil (and I’ve been saying this in many recent posts) is a liability – It’s only his big price tag that’s keeping him starting not his performance.

    On performance Corzola has to be picked!

    I thought we had a great shape today. And suggests- at least to me- that better to player either Ozil / Corzola – not both

    Mertesacker aside (too slow) we have a great team, with good depth and can and will threaten ANY team.

    Hope we can go the whole way! COYG

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

  18. brpowers23

    Sanchez is extreme value. His effort sets the tempo for the team.
    In contrast, Ozil is antithesis of Sanchez. There is absolutely no reason not to work hard for your team. The result today was that the team played 10 on 11 for 96 minutes and still managed a 2-2 draw.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

    1. almostawinner

      campbell on the left would’ve been huge for us.

      wilshire/ozil cant play together: either put wilshire in the middle or ozil.
      save the other one for DORT.

      i reckon ozil may do better in CL games than PL ones anyway.

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  19. brpowers23

    It’s been said here so many times, but needs to be repeated. We do not have the proper DM. Neither Flamini or Arteta can protect the back line and we were punished throughout the game. To me, this, plus Ozil’s complete absence were the difference.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  20. TongaBull

    OT:: is Chambers suspended for Dortmund. If so i gues Flamin wl cover th RB position like he did in 2005 Wen he covered evn th LB til we reached the UEFA champions league

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. almostawinner

      w debuchy out, we’re going to be deadly short at the back 1st half this season (until jan).

      i wonder how many deals for backs/DMs we f**d up in the summer because wenger wasnt
      willing to pay the going market rate ??

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  21. brpowers23

    To his credit, Wilshire has earned his place in the starting 11. He has shown passion and energy, and has improved his passing and dribbling. He is positive in the attack, willing to take the game to the opponent. He isn’t afraid to make a tackle or track back. He fits with Sanchez and Welbeck as the guys willing to put their hearts out for the team. It’s such a plus for Arsenal.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    1. almostawinner

      v.proud for wilshire: the goal will do wonders for him.
      he’s shown some character to rebound from the smoking and all the doubt that surrounded him.

      it helps that wenger has shown faith by playing wilshire in the middle (even pushing out ozil to the left).

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  22. dboy

    Here is some food for thought. Or is it a conspiracy theory? When Fab left Wenger pipped Wilshire to fill his shoes. Needless to say he still hasn’t done that. So Wenger signs Ozil finally Arsenal fans realise we have a replacement for Cesc. Now Cesc want to come back. Wenger refuses and tells him we have Ozil playing that role. Instead of swallowing his pride and putting the team first making a deadly combination of Ozil and Cesc, He remembers his words about Wilshire. So never mind the team we will just reshuffle. Wilshire will be playmaker cause he sad he would be replacement for Cesc. Ozil have to move out to the wing so not to steal Wilshire mojo. While we have lots of other options for the wing. While all this circus is going on Cesc is turning up the heat. Ozil instead gets blamed for being played out of position. And Wenger?? Well he is still trying to prove a point? ? And the fans?? What about them suckers they can hang on for three more years.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  23. Maigari33

    A hard-fought point, I’ll say.
    Wenger needs to re-visit couching school. The reasons are pretty clear:
    1. Substitution is allowed @ any point in time
    2. Wenger clearly lack motivation to inject into players (just watch what other coaches do)
    3. Ozil is not a wenger. 42m is wasted if he can’t be given a chance to play his natural position
    4. Wenger should understand why is it neccessary for Arsenal to have CDM
    5. Three points from three consegative matches is pretty bad for a team challenging for Top four.
    Until Wenger get these lessons clear, we always come back heart broken

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

    1. arsenalfan1

      Agreed. One player after another is getting blamed for Wenger’s mistakes. We fans need to cop on and lay the blame where it belongs before things will improve and we are able to challenge for the Premiership again.

      Rate this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

      1. almostawinner

        wenger likes the pure game: beautiful goals, slick passing etc.
        those are admirable qualities which made me an arsenal fan in the first place.

        BUT.. wenger is also his own worst enemy: will go for the best bargain player instead of best player, playing players out of position, not subbing enough, not rotating enough (not using all his squad), not buying for critical positions even if it means having to pay more…

        i think 17 years is too much for anyone: he should’ve gotten a 1 yr extension, 2 tops.
        now for the next 3 years we’re going to go through “wow – arsenal are almost a great team”.

        what wenger giveth, wenger taketh away.

        Rate this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  24. TJ

    Wasn’t quite sure what to make of the game in the end. I guess a draw was probably a fair outcome given the overall performance. Defensively it was a soft 2nd goal to concede and arguably the 1st goal Aguero’s run into the box could have been better tracked by Flamini. Both sides had their chances.

    The good news is that this team can only get better and better…it’s a slow start to the season (from a points and performance perspective) but they are building.

    Jack put in a much better performance – starting to find his game.
    Alexis is just superb footballer – everything about him is class.
    Welbeck unlucky and liked what he did all game – still early days, he has yet to gel with the movement of the team.
    Rambo – just wasn’t his day today – solid if not at the levels of his best
    Monreal – had a lot of work to do, and wasn’t helped out too much when Alexis went right. Can’t be harsh on him…pretty solid overall actually.
    BFG – hmmm, a few good things and a few not so good. Seemed right off his game and too quiet for a captain. Lacked a bit of drive and energy I felt.
    Kos was good
    Szcz made some really good saves – can’t complain about his day.
    Flamini put in a shift and did pretty well – perhaps one lapse when he didn’t track Aguero into the box tightly enough.
    Hoping Debuchy recovers quickly – over to you Forsythe!
    About Ozil…let’s put it this way, if he doesn’t start against BvB I wouldn’t be concerned.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

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