Whether or not Arsene Wenger really meant what he said when replying to a question about the empty seats at the Emirates stadium, but the Frenchman seemed to suggest that the Arsenal fans were only staying away because these Premier League games had little riding on them.
He appeared to think that the ground would be full again when Arsenal hosted the Russian club CSKA Moscow this week, because the Europa League games are still very important, so if that is true the boss would have been a bit put out, to say the least, at the lack of numbers and the general vibe around the ground at kick-off last night.
As the game wore on though, with thrills and spills and plenty to shout about from the Arsenal team, it felt as though there was a change in attitude from the Arsenal fans. Of course that could soon evaporate but it could also build, especially if Wenger and the players carry on producing and we stay in this competition which represents a last chance to salvage a sorry season.
In fact these Europa League games could actually get us Gooners fired up again, so do you think that the tide may have turned, with respects to how the Arsenal fans feel about the boss, while we thrashed our opponents CSKA last night? Or was it just a brief period of support which will soon end and see calls for a new manager back as firm as ever?
Bob.
Why would the tide turn? What has changed? Wenger?
Looks like we gonna talk about this win for 2 weeks, even if we lose against Southampton we still gonna get reminded of the Europa win
Are you seriously asking us huge majority who crave Wengers exit if we are changing our minds? Are you crazy? A positive win against a defence EVEN worse than ours(which is quite a feat for any defence to be that bad) changes NOTHING. NOT TEN YEARS INABILITY AND UNWILLINGNESS TO FIND, PICK AND ABOVE ALL TO COACH PROPER DEFENDERS! WHAT A JOKE QUESTION TO ASK.
Jon Fox,
It seems I owe you an apology.
I recently asked you a question about Wenger and facts.
After posing the question, I had the audacity to head down to the Emirates to support my club and it’s players. Having just returned home, I looked to see what your reply consisted of, only to find that you were accusing me of not answering your reply in two seperate posts.
Now I assumed, incorrectly it turns out, that you would understand that all true supporters would be getting involved and looking forward to the match.
Please accept my apology for not being an armchair supporter and I will reply once I have digested your post.
With regards to this post, great atmosphere, great win and the players justified the faith Wenger has placed in them. However, I still believe that Arsene should hand over the reins at the end of this season or, at the latest, by the end of his contract.
Well Ken , good to hear, our past differences aside, it is good to know you also want Wenger out. In a totally different answer to someone else, can’t remember who though, I was talikng about the crucial difference about supporting the club , not merely the team. I wrote that many of the present team will not be here in one, two or three years and will be elsewhere(or retired) I mentioned that players are rarely true fans of the clubs they spend their career with and not many these days are true fans, as Bob Wilson, Pat Rice etc etc were and are. And once they leave the club they will not lie awake at night worrying as we fans do. I said the club , it’s future(also past and present, obviously too) are more important than just the team and there is a difference , though a clear overlap too in supporting Arsenal FC than merely supporting present personnel. And the manager. You see what I am saying , I realise. Supporting something that we honestly believe is bad for the CLUB is not actually supporting the CLUB at all and hence my constant diatribes to try to heap further pressure on the manager I believe – along with most others- no longer belongs at our club. That is my view. Supporting the status quo is maybe “loyal” but to what exactly? Not the club and it’s future IMO. I believe you will understand this crucial difference, subtle though it may be to many. I would also welcome more rational and civilised debate between us as two of the longest standing fans on here and pledge to be less critical of certain views in future. I DO THINK THE NEED TO DISAGREE ON WENGER WILL BE ACADEMIC VERY SOON, WHEN HE IS GONE. Europa winning or not I firmly believe the decision to replace him has already been taken, in private. I intend to restart attending again , once he is gone and look forward to doing so.
Jon Fox,
Now this post of yours I welcome wholeheartedly.
I stand by what I have just posted regarding Wenger and his “lies”, but when you write like this, I really do think we can discuss our differences in a more mature manner.
I have never doubted your commitment to the club, so let’s see if we can both act differently, despite our differences.
Shake hands on it ! Passion does ignite dangerous fires, I would venture! So, friends from now on! I really am quite a nice guy, “deep down” (as the late great Frankie Howard once memorably said about Bernard Delfont, whilst on the Royal Variety Performance).
I think Phil might be a little disapointed by this “love in” of ours.
Even world wars eventually come to an end. We are merely two older and passionate long attending fans who have had differing views on something that, as you know, I now believe will soon be academic and of the past. It would just be pointless point scoring to rake over old embers in a fire now dying out , thankfully. (I refer of course to our arguments only).
I’m not sure if even Henry Kissinger could have brokered this Peace Deal such is the enormity of these Two Great Divides coming together as one.How very Noble (or should that be Nobel) of the two of you.May you both live in Peace and Harmony forever.
Somehow I just don’t see it lasting.
Peace in Belfast. North and South Korea again in dialogue. Ken and I are two supporters of the same cause, so what could be more natural. Perhaps you and I can fall out Phil to keep the entertainment factor in good health on here! Right then, I’ll start: I love Wenger and hope he stays with us til he is 99. Your turn now….!
Apologies JF-I just can’t bring myself to go against you now matter how you are feeling at the moment.Put your feet up and get a good nights sleep.It will all look completely different tomorrow
No! The quality in this tournament is nothing compared to Champions League
Think aboot it. Before Athletico and Dortmund entered the tournament, Arsenal was ranked #1 in the Tournament
That shows how poor the teams are if we were the best
??????????
Seriously being ranked number 1 means we are expected to reach this far
Moscow doesn’t have players of calibar of Lacazette, Mkhitaryan and Ozil.
Their defense makes ours look World Class
Last year United wasn’t great but they still won the tournament
So Nothing has changed
Champions League is a completely different ball game (damn it. Another American phrase today. )
We actually have a good shot at winning this.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Let’s try our best to win it and hope Wenger gets pushed out but gets a trophy in his final season. Now that would make this season a success
??????
Forget CSKA and concentrate instead on the ACTUAL reason we will not win the Europa. Atletico Madrid! They are a totally different classs above us with a real defence, compared to our aged, useless bunch of posers masquerading fraudulently as a “defence. ” All Gooner are well aware of this BUT only some will dare face up to it.
Totally right jon fox even on arsenal tv they’re getting exited about beating cska there defense was shocking also.there attack they had a number of chances
If one result outweighs 2 years of regression, then Arsenal fans are idiots and deserve him to stay and continue to fail. Even with the trophy he still needs to go.
Fans tired of being jerked around for years, they aren’t buying what he is selling. Cohesion, bad refs, and capitulation. Time for tough love
Watching the many good chances the awful CSKA missed yeserday and then imagine what awesome Atletico -who we will have to beat to win this comp – will do to our bunch of joke defenders. Don’t shoot the messenger, have the guts to accuse the man responsible for this state. It is NOT me. It IS Wenger!
Durand, This was not meant as a repost to YOU, which whom I totally agree on Wenger. JUST PUSHED THE WRONG KEY. SORRY!
No problem, I appreciate the effort and clarification though.
I sense you will be in a debate soon, may the force be with you.
Durand my old friend,
Good to be in touch again and I have no idea what you are getting at with you Star Wars quote!!
Having discovered your American roots recently, I had to ask you this question.
Last June I was in New York, going around the various sites on the bus.
We stopped outside the buildingwhere The late great John Lennon was murdered.
As I looked around, I spotted appro. ten floors up in a high rise apartment a sign stuck to a window.
It said (and i promise you this is true) WENGER OUT.
Was that anything to do with you? My grandson and I just LOVED THE FACT that our club was reaching out to the residents of New York City.
I love this post!
Ken1945
Funny you saw that in NYC
I have that sign in my yard and my 2 kids who have heard me scream at the man
many early mornings USA time when i grab my coffee and try not to anticipate
the disasters we played thru this season, would be very happy if indeed he left
so i can find some peace and get the ugly sign of my beautiful yard.
WENGER PLEASE GO!!!
Arsenal#7
Right there with you my friend! Coffee at 6:30 in the morning watching the Arsenal play on their game days.
West coast ( and Arizona when I lived there) 3 hrs earlier! That’s my passion outlet im afraid; merely voyeuristic then comment here.
arsenal#7,
Great to hear from another Gooner in America – love to know what made you follow the greatest club in the world?
Just how big are we over there compared to other premier league clubs?
By the way, you keep that sign in your backyard mate!
Don’t put it out the front where your neighbours might see it, because you could cause a riot!
Hello Ken hope all is well my friend.
Alas no not me in New York; I’m further South down the Coast in North Carolina.
Fantastic story about the sign tho! I hope you enjoyed your trip, and hope you return again.
Premier League passion has been steadily growing here for years now. You see pubs identifying themselves with certain clubs, kits around town, and even hear discussions between fan sets.
Friendlies here see massive turnouts; utd in michigan had over 100,000 with thousands filling streets outside stadium.
Lastly, we may differ at times, but i believe we both have the best interests of the club at heart.
I compliment you for continuing to turn up at the Emirates and show support.
The star wars reference was merely my phenomenally accurate jedi instincts foretelling a discuss between you and Jon Fox. You both are very passionate longstanding supporters with different perspectives on 22 year manager on the hot seat.
However, jedi instincts may need recalibration, because completely missed the “love in” you two reached. Glad however, Arsenal fans have enough haters, we don’t need to turn on our own as well.
Durand and arsenal#7,
Who needs politics and religion when we have football?
Do you guys ever get over here?
I have a little idea blossoming in my head that might just bring our gooner family across the world closer together.
Will run it past Admin in the next couple of days just to see if it could be possible.
Had a great time in NYC and have visited Los Angeles, San Francisco, Alberquerque (?) also. Great country with good people all over the place.
I do think Mr. Wenger would make a better president than some I could mention by the way!!!!!!!
ken1945
Ken I am in London 2-3 times a year catching games at Emirates
Quite a different experience watching from your sofa but the distance does not matter
We are still connected somehow and long for a day when Arsenal will sit
on top of the league again.
Cheers!!!!
Ken 1945
I would say ton of Utd fans here obviously from their brand, Liverpool also because guy owns Boston Red Sox too. Arsenal is big because they are on TV often, and spuds have good support also. The rest are mainly scattered in my experience; oddly not many Man City fans tho. Yet i should say, they are exciting and win, so I’m sure that will change.
Anyway, that’s from the east coast and Southeast US in my experience anyway.
Is anyone else getting bored with every article, no matter what it is about, getting turned into an Arsene out campaign??? yes i think 85/90% of gooners want a change. Some hate him, some respect him, but pretty much most want CHANGE. Come on though, this is getting pretty boring reading lately. Arsenal fans dont seem to wanna talk about anything else. Whats wrong with getting behind the team and praising the lads when they do play well? Its OUR club, SUPPORT it! Anyone else with me on this????
Not as many with you as you would probably wished for to be honest.Why would I and the overwhelming majority suddenly go soft on the single biggest issue that has cast itself on this club over the last 5-6 seasons?You May well be fed up reading about it but more want him out at whatever cost.
And as for playing well last night all I can reiterate is what has been said before I posted this reply-that quite simply is we played a very mediocre side.Lets see how we get on in the Semi-Final.
Sorry mate if someone posts a positive about Wenger it’s going to get slated he will never change and the odd decent result against a bang average side doesn’t change anything
Goonerbri, Those of us who post anti-Wenger posts constantkly DO “support our club.” That is exactly WHY we keep trying to hasten Wengers departure. It is those like you, it seems, who are not supporting the club. The team, yes, maybe, but NOT the club and its future . The few Wenger lovers around cannot grasp this concept, which is a great shame and is intensely frustrating to those of us who love Arsenal FC and its past, present and FUTURE. The club is far more valuable long term that merely this team, most or many of whom will be elsewhere in a year or two or three and will largely forget about Arsenal , since players are very rarely fans too. I hope you can now grasp this concept , which to Wenger outers is quite obvious. Try to understand !
I’D agree with you Goonerbri. I sometimes wonder what it would be like in here if our football was silky tough and we were either winning or challenging throughout most seasons. People, some of them, I think would get bored from writing about nice pass, nice goal, what a move, and we are the best …Yay!! Not all people could/can talk niceties for too long, I honestly believe that some would just nit pick so to have a go rather than being overly flattering. I’m not singling anyone out, but I do believe certain people would rather troll another site than to have a love in on this one. I remember even in the great Henry years, people from our base as well as pundits focused on the fact Henry was not good in the air, with everything great you could say about him week in week out, some preferred to talk about what he was not good at. Arsenal at that time had a lack of aerial ability in the final third, it was talked about allot and was one of the reasons I liked the Giroud transfer until I got the entire picture. Also, Vieira is remembered as a warrior, he can handle everything thrown at him and then some. But at the time I remember allot of our fans along with the pundits going very hard on Vieira because of red cards and yellow ones adding up. They’d say stuff like he is letting the team down, and if we dropped two points they’d say would Vieira have made that mistake, how costly will those points be. Esp pundits are always gonna find something to have a go at as soon as a chance arises, no consideration, and I think some fans listen too closely to pundits. That’s my 2 cents.
Agree completely with you mate.
Totally right jon fox even on arsenal tv they’re getting exited about beating cska there defense was shocking also.there attack they had a number of chances
Thomo,
Look at it from a different angle:
Our attacking game was fantastic and our defence nullified their chances.
I don’t understand why we can’t enjoy the win.
No matter who we beat, the reasons given are that the other team was poor.
I thought we played with purpose, we got our tactics spot on and we know what we have to do to beat them next week.Everyone saying Atletico are favourites, but they did not have the decisive victory we had.
There is nothing else to talk about when it comes to Arsenal. We dont compete in league, were in Europa League and our team is average at best. None of this will change until the club gets rid of the guy. Wenger comes up in every discussion b/c every single player at the club is there by his choosing, he selects teams, manages training, probably even selects the menu at Emirates. It’s impossible to talk about Arsenal without bringing up Wenger. And when a large portion of the fanbase want him out, this is what’s gunna happen.
RSH,
Well I thought I’d just made a post that didn’t mention our manager.
I talked about our attack, defence, attitude, tactics and our great win.
I also mentioned that Atletico only won 2-0 versus oue 4-1.
There you go, not one word about our manager.
It can be done and you can then now back at me on any of the points above or agree with all of them, while not mentioning our manager.
I am sorry to say it, but Jon Fox and his co travellers are despicable, angry and frustrated human beings. They have taken joy out of this brilliant site and constantly ruining it. Comments have drastically reduced from except tones of drivel from Jon Fox. If I ran this site he will never be allowed a single post. He’s driven away many and is costing this site.
I hope we win this Europa and Wenger leaves at the end of this season,with Champions League football,we can sign excellent players for the new manager to compete at the highest level without paying a huge amount of money,but I am afraid of Atletico honestly speaking.
Hayzed,
I agree with your sentiment regarding Wenger leaving after managing our club to the Europa cup win.
I also agree that the C.L. point will enable Sven and Raul to go out and get the players that will be attracted to our club because of the C.L. qualification.
If we play to our full potential (remember last years cup final against Chelsea) it’s Atletico who should be worried about us.
I wonder what people will say IF Arsenal goes on to win the title? People used to say Athletico and Dortmund and yes Dortmund is gone, there is now Athletico. I have some feeling we’re going to win the Europa.
You’re getting a little ahead there, we have a good chance, for sure, but Atletico are built for cup competition. They have the defence, they have more than enough to trouble our defence. We’d need to be like when we knocked out Chelsea and City, we’d need to be on it with no messing about. Also we haven’t even reached the next round yet never mind final. Anyways, if you are confident then you’re confident. I’ll wait to see what next round looks like before I get the butterflies.
I don’t know what game you were watching Bob but if that very average side CSKA had just a half decent attack that game would have finished 4 all. Our defence was all over the place every tjme they attacked and the positional play was deplorable. Can you imagine if we were up against Greizmann and Costa last night. Yeah, it would have goodnight Lyon.
I agree Ken, but with a bit of luck/better finishing Arsenal could have scored at least an extra 5 goals (Ramsey 1 offside and 1 hit post, 1 Miky, 1 Iwobi, 1 Welbeck – how did he not score?)
You’re right Ozziegunner, I should have said “the game could have finished 8-4”. In all my time can’t remember an 8-4
I don’t know about all that but it’s really starting to sink in that we have two of Europe’s deadliest finishers over the seasons, and arguably the best creator of chances behind them, not to mention the all round attacking threat of Mkhitaryan. But it’s those two strikers that really gets me buzzing, so long as we can manage the both of them well it will mean one injury up top no longer kills our ability to sneak ahead in games. They both have the capability to challenge for the golden boot, am really happy when I see them finish chances off with minimal fuss like they do.
It IS exciting but top teams need many more than four/ five quality attacking players. They need a proper and deep(in numbers) defence too. That is where we are far behind our PREM TOP RIVALS. It is not being honest to overlook that fact.
Jon Fox,
Just a reminder about our conversationon re. post dated April 4th with header consisting of “Does this response to Arsenal fans EtcEtc”
You said and I quote “Wenger is as artful and deceitful as the most skilled politician”.
Also “he has sown lies, distortians, and wilful deceptions”.
I challenged you to give me actual factual examples of these acusations and not your views, accusations, interpretations or media reporting,
I have now read your response:
After cutting out the capital letters, expected verbal diarrhoea and usual personal attacks, I think I have found there are five points that need answering, if only for their innacurate reporting.
1. Injured players and lying about severity of Rosicky’s personal injury to Arsenal fans:
That is your opinion and not a fact. Where are the medical papers you need to prove this so? Could it have been that Wenger was getting updates from his medical team and acted on them? I would have thought that a man of your self professed higher intelligence over me and my views would have asked the following:
Why would he lie? What would he gain? What was his motive if he was actually deceiving the fans?
So this is your opinion, not a fact and frankly quite ridiculous in my opinion.
2. His use of the phrase “I did not see it” as proof of lying to the Arsenal fans.
Can you actually prove he did see it? Are you now, on top of all your other self confessed abilities, actually able to see what Wenger sees? If you could show me an instance, say, when Wenger said I did not see it because I was in the toilet, but the video footage showed him on the touchline that would be the proof required for me to have to agree with you. I draw your attention to instances where numerous video replays have failed to prove incidents one way or the other. Could it be that the man whilst on the touchline/in the dugout had his view restricted? So once again, this is your opinion not a fact.
3. Claiming one of Citys goals “cost us the game and blamed the ref” as proof of lying to the fans.
We lost that game 3-1 and video footage actually showed two goals were offside and the referee allowed them to stand. If the calls had been correct the final score would have been 1-1. Therefore the referee did cost us the game.
4. His comment “Judge me in May” as proof of lying to the Arsenal fans
So why is that a lie, a distortian or wilful deception? I actually see it it as a request, but of course I am one of those deluded fans.
5. “Lying to himself” regarding Walcott and Diaby’s injuries and playing abilities as proof of lying to the Arsenal fans.
I included this simply because I don’t understand it, but it obviously means something to you and I wanted to be reasonable in replying to you.
Your power of reasoning is certainly lacking with these examples of our manager lying, especially as you have known of his lies for ten years!
They are all your personal views, which of course you are entitled to have, as I am entitled to mine.
Like most of your hysterical posting, you try to bully, intimidate and humiliate those who question your views. This is not your site and everyone has a right to express their views (even those in the minority).
You say you could produce a long book of his myriad of lies, yet this first attempt is as woefull as your criticism of Mertesacker’s recent public acknowledgement of his problems.
Would this book of yours accompany the financial report you said you was going to produce for the followers of this site to peruse whilst on the site that you were going to produce?
I am, of course, using the language of the terraces and I don’t use foul language so that makes everything all right.
Ken If you don’t mind
I will pass on answering these questions as we are now in accord that Wenger should leave, which is what matters above all else to me and many others. I am not one to rake over technical but academic differences once circumstances have changed and ny detailed post answering in full these technical questions you pose would be so long as to take me way past my bedtime which is fairly soon. You know that I an content now that I am virtually certain Wenger is very near to his end as our manager and I propose we now leave it at that, in an effort to start our now jointly agreed more civilised discourse. I fully respect your views and of all on here you express them most concisely with well argued reasons. I really now want to move on to better and more enjoyable debate with you, as with others too.
Jon Fox,
Agreed.
It was going well until he sent Iwobi on. Then I realised a leopard never changes its spots
This is more than deep seated resentment, it’s hatred and bordering on racism if you dislike him just because he is Iwobi.
Did Arsenal concede a goal when Iwobi came on? Did he receive a red card?
So please enlighten me on what exactly went wrong when Iwobi came on.
I rather seem to remember a certain one time English wonder kid by the name of Wilshere who had a terrible game and played worse than everyone else in the team.
This is an obnoxious accusation to make to decent Arsenal fans. To imply racism is a slanderous charge, fully unjustified and I remind you of the huge amount of rightly idolised ex-Arsenal ,players who were and are black. And no I ever spoke to ever considered the totally unimportant matter of skin shade. One of the positive things about British football is it/s multi cultural appeal and no rational person EVER cares less about skin colour. MERELY ABILITY OR LACK OF. Which brings me back to Iwobi, who is in the latter category . The Admin should warn you about these outrageous and false accusations!
Ha the name is very clever.
I don’t see racisim though, sorry just don’t. People have said much much worse about Wenger (can’t beieve I’m defending him), Welbeck, Ramsey, Wilshire, Bellerin, Xhaka, even Iwobi.
Racism is very serious, not to be used so easily and carelessly.