Overpaid and underwhelmed… by Ken1945
INTERNET PROVIDED UPDATES ON THE SO-CALLED GREEDY PLAYERS, PAST AND PRESENT, WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES ABOVE THE PROBLEM OF DONATING TO THE CORONA VIRUS:
Let me make it clear that I have taken all the following examples from posts on the internet that are readily available for anyone who wants to take a fair and balanced view to read:
1. The Borussia Monchengladbach squad have decided to waiver part of their salaries to make sure every worker in the club gets paid amid the Covi-19 pandemic.
2. Gary Neville’s co-owned hotels will admit NHS workers free of charge, for the duration of the crisis.
3. Zlatan Ibrahimovic has started a fundraiser to help aid hospitals in Italy.
4. Real Betis doctor offers free help “to prevent hospitals from saturating” by giving people with musculoskeletal problems treatment free of charge.
5. Chelsea have made the Millennium Hotel at Stamford Bridge available to NHS personnel free of charge, with Roman Abramovich saying he will pay for NHS staff to stay for at least two months.
6. Liverpool players help local foodbanks suffering from football hiatus, with club captain, Jordan Henderson, promising generous financial donations from the players.
7. Tottenham open their new stadium as a testing area for coronavirus, along with other purposes aimed at assisting the fight against this virus.
8. Valladolid players reject tests for coronavirus kits as they say, “people need them more” and they show no sign of having the virus.
9. Arsenal player, Shkodran Mustafi donates money towards 16,000 free meals in the Islington area to assist the poorest in said community
10. Mesut Ozil, Sead Kolasinac and Julian Draxler have all donated money to the “Big Shoe” charity as part of their continued work to help poor children with life-changing medical operations and more, including the corona virus.
11. Manchester United players donate £3.5 million to their local NHS by giving 30% of one month’s wages.
12. Gary Lineker will donate two months of his salary to the British Red Cross and believes that premier league stars will also be doing something as well.
13. Bournemouth manager, Eddie Howe takes a voluntary pay cut to help fight the effects of the coronavirus.
14. Brighton manager, chief executives and technical director follows Howe’s lead and take “significant voluntary pay cut” for the next three months.
15. Matty Longstaff donates 30% of his £850 a week salary to the NHS.
16. Arsenal’s executive team will waive more than a third of their salaries over the next twelve months in response to the coronavirus.
17. Arsenal’s first team players are reported to be the first premier league club to agree to take a 12.5% wage cut, to be implemented within the next 48 hours – it has now been reported that Stan Kroenke has made a significant contribution to the club and all employed staff will continue to receive full salaries.
18. Every single Newcastle United player donated to the NHS – even those who could leave the club this summer.
19. Danny Rose donated £19,000 and free pizzas to a hospital that treated him while at THFC.
20. TO DATE, NO POLITICIAN HAS APPEARED ON THE INTERNET AS HAVING DONATED ANY OF THEIR SALARIES – OR RETURNED ANY OF THEIR £10,000 NEW EXPENSES AWARD TO HELP THEM SET UP AN OFFICE AT HOME, INCLUDING MATT HANCOCK, WHO ORIGINALLY CRITICISED PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLERS.
I ASSUME THEY MUST HAVE, OF COURSE!!!
Sometimes, I believe, it pays to investigate what is actually happening, instead of listening to those who seem to deflect thoughts from their own shortcomings.
Has anyone seen any other reports worth mentioning?
ken1945
They turned down 12.5.
Should we set up a go fund me for the players? Like they need people to order their food in for them, we should help.
Who has turned down 12.5?
If you are referring to Arsenal you are wrong, they have accepted it and it will be announced officially shortly.
Nice one, Ken… and Pep’s €1m donation towards fighting covid-19…
Plus Watford turning over their stadium to help out the NHS Sue.
The list goes on and on!!!
Ken
You have brought politics into this -again. Some politicians are in it for power or have the desire to do good. Taking a swipe at them in the manner you have done isn’t helpful. Whatever yours or my political persuasion does not alter the fact that as a nation we rely on their ability, intellect, call it what you will, to collectively run the country either in power or being an effective opposition. I do not begrudge them their salaries at all. They don’t make in a year what many players earn in a week
Equally, I’m not suggesting that they shout from the roof tops about their generosity. By implication you are putting it out there that they aren’t doing their bit
SueP, I am thankful that it seems you and i are on the same side of the argument, at least if I have properly understood your main thrust in your regular posts. That gladdens my heart because I am certain that the vast majority of ordinary folks worldwide think as we both do. Also many Gooners will think likewise and that will have a practical effect , financially and spiritually on their future support, or not, of this team.
Some may gain the impression from my regular posts about fairness that I am a Socialist. I am not , never have been and never will be. I belive Socialism to be naive and a financially proven failure as a way to enrich society as a whole. I believe in ETHICAL capitalism.
However Sue, my fair minded nature tells me without a shadow of doubt that footballers salaries at top level are grossly obscene and anti a fair society. They are doing immense damage to the games future, and this quite irrespective of this disease , which has only served to bring this decades long necessary change into real discussion. Trying to defend these obscene salaries by going all wide eyed in wonder at proposed minor cuts is fools gold and worse still, is dishonest thinking.
Please note I distinguish between THIS team and the club. The club is now 134 years old, but the longest lasting player right now is Ozil who has been here a mere 7 years. I warrant that none of our present team knows even a tenth as much about the history of our club as we diehards on here do. I also believe that is simply because they are not that interested; after all THEY are not fans as WE are.
Quite irrespective of the well known fact that a good number of existing players already give to good causes and charities, they need to do more; far more! In the new financial order that will be forced on ALL of us , without our choice too, the financial facts are that in the very near future, ALL top players will have to vastly reduce their salaries – and not by a paltry 12.5% – OR put the game under and themselves out of work. If anyone doubts that truth then they are not thinking ahead and are failing to see the enormous change in society already upon us – and in financial terms , becoming far more drastic too.
No SueP, the politicians bought the premier league players into the debate…remember Matt Hancock telling the nation that players should take a wage cut – while, it seems, doing nothing of the kind himself?!?!?
Ken
It’s back to politics again
I made no reference to Hancock at all. I was referring to politicians on all sides in my post but you have decided to use Hancock as a political tool to support your argument. I really don’t feel the need to justify my neutral position (which is what it is) or to have you surmising that Hancock or any other political figure hasn’t done their bit unless you know differently.
If you do then I would be very interested to know
No SueP, you said I brought politics into this, I reminded you that is was Matt Hancock who was the first politician to mention players salaries and that’s why I feel justified in mentioning his particular name – not because of his party but because he stood at a rostrum and demanded football players should take pay cuts – I said in the article that “to date, no politician has appeared as having donated any of their salaries” – like you I would be interested to know if he has done what he asked the players to do.
Actually SueP, if you read your post that I replied to at 11.19, it was all about politicians.
Ken
I’d really like to draw a line under this.
You quite rightly listed many good works from the footballing fraternity but then in Jon style wrote in capitals that you had yet to see anything from any politician confirming any assistance in whatever form
I’m not trying to be pedantic that that seems seriously like a political statement to me and that is why your article felt political to me.
Ken a good post
I’ve been reading these posts and the interesting comments between you Jon phill reg sues ect all with very good points
I think from what I’ve read that most do not disagree that
Footballers do donate to good causes
But as the rest of the worlds businesses have had to lay off , suspend staff everyone is taking pay cuts to help the businesses stay a float
And I think it would be good if these people could follow suit
Not for kronke but for arsenal as a self sustained business
Donating 20.000 is great but if your earning 10 mill a year in reality it’s not huge
Well said
K en who wrote this article is well known for being balanced in his arguments, ON SOME THINGS. On this he has given many examples of good doings by football folk but neglected to mention the overriding fact -at least IMO- that as of right NOW, not a single Prem club has implemented actual wage cuts and this many weeks into this society destroying pandemic. YES, I fulll realise there are talks and further talks and then still more but unlike me and some others, KEN is far more impressed by what people SAY than what they do or do NOT do.
I always try to be fair but to also not be so woolly mindedly “fair” that I deflect from the core truth and fail to stress the overriding thing that matters, while nibbling around the EDGES of the subject , so to speak.
IMO, there is ZERO excuse for all Prem clubs not to have already implemented PROPER wage cuts, and with great respect, a proposed cut of 12.5 % to multi millionaires is not exactly hardship. Is it!
Ken makes some other fine and sensible points about why have not(presumably not, anyway) government ministers and powerful and rich folk of all kinds not already made personal financial sacrifices. He rightly also mentions many fine folk who have .
However, NONE of that changes the fact that as of today, not a single Prem club has implemented actual substantial cuts (not proposals for deferrals with added interest and performance related bonuses at some later date, which are paltry fake concessions, again IMO!)
It needs to be said, that in a fair system, a huge say 30% – 50% wage cut by a multi millionaire is very easy to do while still leaving them tens of THOUSANDS left for their families each week, whether or not they are fit to play.
The system is loaded against the “so called little people” (many of whom are the REAL society heroes working in key industries and getting applauded and thanked by clapping each week). I MUCH AGREE WITH THAT PRAISE AND DO MYSELF CLAP TOO. BUT I also recognise that THOSE fabulous NHS people are the ones we need ro PRACTICALLY support, both emotionally and financially. They have family bills to pay and unlike footballers do not have tens of thousands of pounds left eack week after paying the normal tax and wage deductions to the state!
I list this detail for FULL context in my usual “core truth” way, to say that mere proposals about paltry cuts and deferrals do not cut any ice with me. The fact remains that Prem players have fought tooth and nail, with a few noble exceptions,(NOBLE, of West Ham in fact being one of them) to resist even minor cuts and that, my fair minded friends, is a total disgrace and will not be forgotten by the vast majority of us real fans.
I have already posted about the massive damage these self centred players have already done to the VITAL fan to player relationship that has, hitherto, been such a massive and undervalued bulwark to the future of the game at to level.
These slow witted and slow to act players have ALREADY much damaged that relationship. It is too a relationship that has inrecent decades become SO one sided that it is already turning off fair minded folk from the game in our tens of thousands.
When NEXT seaon starts the reality will be far from full stadiums and far greater general wage cuts than now being discussed and it you doubt that then you are not thinking properly and do not fully understand how thee world is linked both spiritually and financially.
I am pledged not to ever watch Arsenal again in the flesh and my heart tells me not to watch even on TV either,WHILST these present selfish creatures wear our shirt. I still MASSIVELY support our CLUB(and please remember that fans ARE the club , not the players, who are here today gone tomorrow), but how can my conscience allow me to support the dull witted, selfish creatures who wear our and other teams shirts? It cannot!
Well Jon-more fool you I say. Do you seriously believe the majority of everyday working class people will react as you have done and will decide to never again go to watch, support and follow ArsenalFootball Club? I don’t. And you can preach from that very high pedestal you have sat yourself on as much as you wish, but I guarantee you will be proved wrong on many of the accusations and issues you continue to deliver.
YOU do not know what has been discussed. YOU do not know what has been decided.YOU do not know anything from within Arsenal Football Club. Why? Because, like all of us, we wait for the Club to tell us what has been decided.
Some will agree with you simply because they want to believe that the vast income of these players ( and one in particular) is obscene. Some will hold a more balanced view and TRUST the Club and Players to do the right thing for both Arsenal Football Club, the Players themselves, and Society in general. I’m quite obviously firmly parked in the camp of the latter, and will put my faith in the fact that Arsenal Football Club will continue to do things THE ARSENAL WAY, which is why the name ARSENAL FOOTBALL CLUB, believe this or not, continues to be respected for its values and tradition, a point not lost on ANY PLAYER WHO REPRESENTS THIS CLUB.
Fine rhetoric with noble aims, which sadly fly in the face of the FACTS that no club, nor ours too, has yet implemented cuts. Which however fine your rhetoric Phil, does not and cannot alter the facts. I already knew that YOU and many others will never stop attending. But my point was that many others will.
Some put principles even above their life long love for the club;, a love, BTW,that I will always have.
But I know the PRESENT team is not the club. IT IS MERELY THE TEAM and teams come and go but the CLUB and it’s TRUE principles – which have historically been to lead in football matters – REMAINS.
Jon- we reportedly have 60,000 on the Season Ticket waiting list. There will always be the fan base for Arsenal Football Club as it is simply the biggest, by far Football Club in London. I laugh at your suggestion the ground will struggle to be full due to supporters feeling let down by these players. The Football Club will survive without your Attendance believe me, as it has done the past few seasons since you ridiculously stopped going supposedly in protest of Wenger. It seems to me that you are always looking for a reason to First, not attend anymore games, the Second, stop following the Club altogether. I wouldn’t mind betting you will find yourself in a majority of ONE with this stance. Morals and principles are one thing. Downright stupidity is another. To suggest that you are now prepared to “unfollow” the Club with your support because of your misguided belief that the players are only interested in themselves is exactly that. Misguided and Stupid.
Phil, Your post is just your opinion. My posts dealt in facts. Perhaps that is one key difference between us? As for a full Emirates there have been many, occasions this season when the ground has been far from full. Official crowd figures given out are of course a joke. Or a lie, if I use correct language. None of us knows the actual waiting list; we have only the word of a club that routinely lies with its actual matchday figures.
Jon is just mad this payers are paid so much along with other people complaining. It’s just JEALOUSY
At Phil
I proved Jon wrong already with none other than Unai Emery. However the party wouldn’t be good without flavor hence i learned to just go back to reading and laugh.
At Ken 1945 you are a blessing. Jon fox I learned to respect you for your passion and self confidence damn realistic crap.
A quick research of player charities reveals just how much some of these young men are doing for charitable causes across the world . There is a great amount that needs doing and it will remain into perpetuity , Covid has put immense and immediate pressure on all finance and health resources. The players have short careers earn really fantastic salaries but the time they have to set up the rest of the lives needs and demands is short. I for one respect their sacrifices and willingness to share and accept salary cuts
Ken@1845- it’s not politically correct at this time to actually defend footballers is it? They are the Anti-Christ to some who believe that as they are earning such huge salaries this whole Pandemic should be down the them to sort out and nobody else.
You are absolutely correct to bring up the Politicians. They are Public Employees after all, paid by our taxes to represent our best interests.
What really annoys me, as I continually post, is the simple fact that Footballers are being made the fall guys here. Why? Arsenal Football Club has tradition. Some might not believe this but THAT NAME, THAT BADGE, THAT SHIRT, is respected throughout the World.
The Club will need to impose a degree of financial restraint for a number of years. The single biggest expenditure of EVERY FOOTBALL CLUB, is the players wages. If the Club has no option than to discuss the situation with the players, they would have done this by talking to them directly. Not through the media. Not through the PFA. Not on Fans Forums and Blogsites. THE ARSENAL do things correctly. That has been done here.
And on top of the players salary deductions, do you believe Mesut Ozil will now stop contributing to the other causes he pays vast amounts of his income to? I don’t. Ihave read Mustafi has been paying to a very good cause. Will this now stop? I suspect most, if not all, our players have contributed to something worthwhile, but the fact it is not reported allows some to accuse them of High Treason.
If what I have read on another Blog this morning is to be believed, Hector Bellerin, scorned by many for not being remotely good enough to play for The Arsenal, has, as the Clubs PFA Reprenststive, been openly opposed to the recommendations of Graham Taylor, and went ahead with discussing with his team mates just how they were ALL going to address this situation, not an easy thing to do with a squad of 30+ all on lockdown. But it seems Hector led the way and agreed with all parties, The Club, His Team Mates, The Management, the final outcome. This from someone who is not only Spanish but only mid-twenties in age. That is Leadership in my view.
So, Ken, that’s MY VIEW. It seems as though it reflects your own. It also seems you and I could be in a minority. But one thing I would like to believe nobody will argue with is the fact that these players DO CARE, they DO UNDERSTAND their moral obligations, and THEY DO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO PLAY FOR ARSENAL FOOTBALL CLUB.
Phil
I have no problem with your post apart from your dismissal of politicians in no more than a sentence as just being just public employees. It rather diminishes your argument to spend as much time lauding the undeniable generosity of footballing individuals as you have, and not mention how hard many politicians do work for the common good. I’m really disappointed that the article was painted in such a political way.
I can only say it so many times, but when players are so well remunerated their financial good fortune will come under the spotlight which it has now.
Ok SueP- I will wait for you to show me exactly what a single Politician has done in regards to dropping their salaries, donating to charitable causes and generally doing what you EXPECT footballers to do, no matter how much they earn.
I also look forward to Jon telling is all that he is refusing to take any more than 50% of his pension each week.
Come on Phil
That question to me is one which you know I can’t answer as I don’t expect players to have to publicise their good works any more than I expect politicians to do either or to discuss their income in public All I said was that when players at the top level are so well remunerated they will fall under the spotlight. That was not a criticism of them as people just a statement of fact
OK SueP- it was probably unfair to ask as I did. But it doesn’t get over the fact that Politicians are Public Servants, as are NHS and other critical frontline workers, except with a vastly increased renumeration. Some, not all, are very wealthy individuals in their own rights. Is it not reasonable for these servants of society to be seen to support their lesser paid colleagues?
Phil, You appear to see no moral (or perhaps even a practical) difference between multi millionaires taking a necessary cut in order to save the game which millions love from going broke AND on theother hand , ordinary non rich folk making substantial cuts from pensions. Why do you not see that please ? I am certain that it is not because you are not intelligent. I will suggest the answer that I think is the true answer to my own question and that is that your life long love for AFC has overcome your sense of balance and fair play for all. Tell me that is wrong if you TRULY can!
Ok Jon so let’s look at this another way. The players of Arsenal Football Club are paid vastly more than the players at Fulham. Why? Simple. It is a bigger Club, with bigger name players, paid from bigger revenues and income. That is simple logic. As is, say, comparing Fulham with Brentford.
So, if Arsenal players are expected to agree to a reduction to assist the Club through what is obviously a very difficult time financially, it stands to reason that the players at Fulham will be asked to proportionately do the same, as will then the players at Brentford.
So, you feel each player should be prepared to take a 50% pay cut. So let’s “guess” that someone such as Xhaka is paid £100k a week, and it is a guess, as we as fans do not know. The Club know. Xhaka himself with his agent knows. Other than a few others, do you really believe anyone else knows?So, Xhaka after tax, I would guess takes home £60k a week. I guess, like most, he has allowed to live within his income so will be paying a large mortgage on a dwelling that I again guess is not a 2 bedroom ex Council House in Hackney. He might well have payments for other properties as investments, cars, schooling for kids, etc etc etc ( I am aware he may be too young for this and only recently married, but bear with me on this). Xhaka has how much time left in his career? Let’s be optimistic ( for him) and day 10 years, on the same now reduced salary. You are asking a player, and a very average one at that, to give up what amounts to £25million pounds in wages?It ain’t going to happen PAL. And why should it? The Club obviously thought he was worth paying those wages, so why now would he now accept a 50% cut? And tell me Jon, what will be Xhaka’s earnings in 10 years time? Then 20? 30?
Who knows this answer? The career of any professional footballer is short in comparison to the average person, so they get what they can when they can, which I can only agree with. They need to be thinking those 10,20 30 years down the line more so than most as they cannot all be managers and coaches and pundits can they?
You, I feel, seem, for reasons I just cannot understand, determined to attack the players of Arsenal Football Club simply because they earn far more money than the like of you, myself and probably 99.9% of the population could only dream of earning. FFS, even @Ken1845 has his misses knitting his clothes for him, ( mind you, seeing his dress sense first hand I can tell you it’s improved enormously).
But could the players at Fulham survive on 50% less income? And the players at Brentford on 50% less than their near SW London neighbours? And then plan for their future outside football when their careers are over?
The life as a top Premiere League footballer is a world away from everyday life for most. They are offered the money, they take it. You seem far too keen to take it off them, and believing at the same time they have no moral responsibility. I believe you are wrong, and as I continue to say, the Players deserve far more respect for what they do that we never hear of. It suits you this is the case, but doesn’t at all prove you right. I’m just glad your not ever to be at the Emirates again, not that you’ve been that often. I prefer to trust the players at my Club, which is what I would expect most fans to do.
Phil your lower post(with no reply attachment) mentioned Brentford and Fulham. I see no relevance, or at least not much, to either of those, nor any Championship club with AFC. Your argument is therefore irrelevant, since I did not and don’t mention lower level clubs. You will note, if you re- read my posts, that they spoke of Prem level, not others.
My WHOLE point was about the gross obscenity of PREM clubs wages. No more red herrings then please. This tactic is well known as trying to muddy the water by bringing in irrelevant other matters.
This talk is about footballers and not worshipping politicians who are elected to do what they do. Anybody can be a politician and still have the required results this politicians have
In answer to your last point Phil, I realise that many Tory politicians but by no means all, are well off from other means Equally, there are more than a few well fixed labour and other party MPs too and you alluded to it.
Regarding my view on the salaries of the medical and social care employees this needs reviewing urgently and God willing in the future politicians of all persuasions do more. Much more. This is not a lame excuse, but sadly the MPs taking a 12% cut to help the the NHS and social care sector would be a spit in the ocean, although cut a donation would show solidarity
Jon- but why only Premiere League Players. That is my point. Look at the Fulham squad and the6vwill have their higher earners on more money than some Premiere League Lower earners. So the point is entirely relevant as you well know, only choose not too to suit your totally imbalanced thoughts.
And you noted earlier in stating only facts, yet continue to state the players have done nothing without even waiting to hear officially from the a Club. And yet the Club lies according to you. This bastion of tradition respected the world over for values yet now just spew lies.
Honestly Jon- for someone of such obvious intelligence, you need to recall previous posts and comments because your memory clearly fails you. Unless that’s the whole point of course.
If it wasn’t for the fact you believe you are correct on everything you say, I might actually be more willing to tr6 to understand what you write. But remember, you opinion is exactly that. Yours. It’s not mine unless I care for it to be. Mostly I don’t. Which makes your comments irrelevant to me. And most likely more others than you would wish to believe.
And MY point, Phil was to try to concentrate on those in football doing by far the MOST damage to the vital fan player relationship and that is those in thee Prem. I do not, of course not, argue that some damage is also done by rich players in thr Championship too. But I am trying to stick to the MAINpoint, so that its full effect can be felt. Again I say you are trying to muddy the waters by bringing in lower level clubs and I NOTE THIS IS FAR FROM THE FIRST TIME TOO, HENCE MY REPEATED PHRASE USED TO YOU BEFORE, NOW OF “RED HERRINGS”( ie less important than the MAIN point and therefore, distractions).
I also repeat my opinion of you being not fully able to separate your natural love and bias towards Arsenal from other, wider, and ultimately, more important matters.
Ok Jon-so the main point is your disgust at the players for not giving, donating and reducing their income to YOUR satisfaction. That’s it in a nutshell. Yet you, as I have challenged previously, actually have ZERO fact of anything that has been agreed between the players and the a Club.
And another point you may wish to answer for me. Your disgust at the obscene money these players earn is obvious. So why has it taken a Global Pandemic for you to now voice your view?
Oh but it hasn’t, as you Phil are well aware, since you read my posts and I read yours. We long timeregulars onhere are all well aware of what other longtmers views really are.
I therefore defy you to say HAND ON HEART, that you have missed all my many posts over a long period saying that all Prem salaries are obscene and are harming the game. So by all means criticise me but please do me the favour of telling the truth about mywell known on here views and not, shall I say, the opposite of truth!
Ok SueP- but if collectively ALL citizens gave 12% back it would make a huge difference. The problem is then we would have such huge unemployment and recession that the whole point is worthless.
I’m aware that this is now becoming a political and financial discussion which is unfair. Your views and mine are obviously not the same, but I respect the tone and content you have written all the same.
These are times nobody saw coming, and with no time to prepare. Extraordinary measures and policies will be with us for years to survive and come out of this, and I have to trust our Politicians to make the decisions with the best interests of the country at heart. These decisions, I feel, will cause austerity and hardship for millions for as long as it takes to balance an economy that will be demolished by this a Pandemic, and foe a decade at least to get back on track. I would like to believe I at least have my Wife, my Golf Club membership and Arsenal Football Club in my life ( but not necessarily in that order) when this lockdown is finally over and life starts to get back on track.
SueP- you are a very worthy participant on this site. Please STAY SAFE AND WELL.
Hi Phil
Honest debate is a worthwhile exercise
I can only agree with your post and wish this wasn’t happening
Funnily enough, like you there (apart from my children and grandchildren) three important things in my life too! My husband, my golf club membership and AFC. I’m definitely missing golf but should it resume this summer the course will look magnificent. Lack of playing time won’t help my handicap ☹️
Stay well!
Well Phil, on THIS post I can share your sensibly put into good perspective, life views. Indeed, it is that same “austerity and hardship for millions” phrase of yours that perfectly sums up my whole philosophy and is why I think and write as I do.
I too try, as far as possible, to keep away from overtly party political comment on HERE, since it rarely achieves much, people all having various views. Of course, it is impossible not to stray into political territory at all when human principles are being discussed.
ADMIN PAT NO LONGER EVEN WARNS THOSE OF US WHO DO STRAY IN, AS HE ONCE USED TO, A WHILE BACK NOW.
Jon-in reply to your post of 7.14pm. Not once have you ever suggested your finished watching and supporting Arsenal. This, I believe, is something added only to attempt to add weight to your opinions of today. And for what it’s worth, it’s ridiculous to suggest you are finished with the Club only today. If you really felt as strongly about it as you suggest, you have had over two years since Ozil signed THAT contract, so why is it only now your finally finished with the Club? You have certainly had more than enough to say on the matter in 24 months yet seem to have woken this morning with this idea that your moral responsibility is too great to ignore. Seems a strange and unnecessary point of view to me.
And I then take it your finished with this site as well. If you don’t watch, even on TV, what will you have to speak about?
Phil it seems you are determined not to read and digest the precise words I use and which ones I do not usein my posts above the 7.14 one. I specifiaclly said that I will not watch this teamwhilst these presentplayers wear our shirt. I then carefully and deliberately distinguished, in detail too,the difference betwen the club which I will always support and the team, WHICH AS THINGS STAND I CANNOT.
And yet you ignored this comment and you now ask me ”
“why is it only now that I am finished with the CLUB” !
That is a unfair tactic and unworthy of your intellect . From a lesser intellect I would call that the question of a fool but in your case I do not, since I know you cannot conceive how any diehard Gooner can possibly stop watching his/her team.
I remind you that I did not watch the last World Cup either, not a single game, entirely because I was not prepared to condone the corrupt awarding of the host nation to corrupt and gangster run Russia. And I am passionate about supporting my country, though less so than with Arsenal.
I ask you sincerely to accept that I have a very big conscience that will and has, usually but not always(to my regret), guided me away from both doing and condoning or accepting something that I consider fundamentally wrong.
I DO NOT COMMENT ON YOUR RIGHT TO WATCH ARSENAL AND NEVER WILL. I HOPE YOU WILL DO ME THE SAME HONOUR TO ACCEPT MY SINCERE REASONS FOR THINKING AND THEREFORE WRITING AS I DO.
To do otherwise will be impossible for me and so I will not do it, at least, not until I an convinced that our players have had a genuine change of heart and regret their selfish stance.
I am a Christian and try to live by moral principles, which is not easy and is often inconvenient, in football matters more than in most others in fact.
I much hope that ALL Prem players , not just ours, vastly and swiftly change their indefensible stance. I also fully agree that many other rich and powerful folk should also do likewise , even though some do but most others do not.
But as I have told KEN MORE THAN ONCE, I DO NOT SEE THIS SITE AS A SUITABLE VEHICLE TO GO TOO DEEPLY INTO THE LIVES OF FOLK UNCONNECTED TO ARSENAL , OR AT LEAST TO FOOTBALL.
Phil, I wish you, KEN, AND ALL OUR FANS NOTHING BUT BEST WISHES AND DO NOT WISH TO FALL OUT WITH ANYONE. I WOULD FAR RATHER SAY MY PIECE AND MOVE ON and I also much regret our many earlier fierce arguments, mostly about Ozil and some of the comments I made about you, which were WRONG of me.
I hope now we can both have a better understanding of what makes the other one tick. It would be a boring and tedious world if we all thought the same, as I THINK YOU WILL AGREE.
Jon- I think that’s enough from me on this headline. Different views, different morals, different interpretations does not take away from the fact that we are all diehard gooners who only want the best from and for our Club.
SueP- you are such a worthy contributor.
Sue-you are loved by all
TMJW- I understand your views on the Influenza problem that is simply ignored.Perhaps, when Covid19 is under control this will be addressed.( and deep down I just know you LUV OZIL).
Jon- well you are @Jon Fox. Simple as that
@Ken1845- my good PAL for life.
Stay safe and well everyone.
And so say all of us Phil!!
I’m looking forward to sharing more opinions with everyone- as long as you know I’m always right😂.
Take care and stay safe
Forget the players, it’s the Chinese Hea….sorry I mean, the World Health Organisation, and governments we should be directing our anger towards.
Don’t get me wrong, the players haven’t covered themselves in glory over this, but they are just a convenient distraction from what the globalists are getting up to. We have a pandemic every year, it’s called influenza, yet we have never seen this response before…shutting down the world economy, and taking away our liberty, with these new draconian laws. Before you all point me in the direction of how many deaths, there’s a difference between dying with Covid-19, and dying from Covid-19. Check how deaths are being recorded if you don’t believe me.
All those wacky conspiracy theorists that have been talking about these tracking and surveillance measures, and medical passports, for over a decade, are not looking so wacky now! The new 9/11 is upon us!
Wake up before it’s too late!!
Just been listening to Phil Thompson (yes I know 😀) on Sky, saying how everyone will feel happier once the season re-starts, even if it will be behind closed doors. It does bring people together, it’s a huge part of our lives. I read an article on the Online Gooner about a young lad with Asperger syndrome and how not going to the Emirates is having an effect on his mental health (stay strong Jake).. it effects us all in different ways..
Nothing will stop me paying my membership and going to watch my team, it’s what I do along with my son and i can’t ever imagine our lives without AFC in it!! I’m looking forward to catching that first glimpse of the pitch again, it will feel just like when I was a child travelling to the coast and catching that first glimpse of the sea 😂
Sue-Thats so obviously how many tens of thousands of other like-minded supporters feel. I personally cannot wait to be back watching live matches wherever and whenever. I believe that the next season will be a wake up call to fans who will realise exactly what not having every week means to them, as you so rightly explain. We take things for granted in life. Many will now feel that Arsenal Football Club holds a bigger place in their lives than what it previously had.
Sue and Phil, your postss sums it all up – The Arsenal is part of our life, always has been and always will be.
I actually wrote this because I was sick and tired of some of our so called fans, continually putting down our supporters, our players and doing so in a way that, if one doesn’t agree with their views, then one is naive, stupid, short sighted and inferior in intellect.
Such self centred belief in one self becomes a tad irritable, especially when said person does no homework regarding the players, clubs and owners actions in donating millions to the cause, without wanting or needing a fanfare to tell everyone what they are doing.
Debating is a great thing to do, but being lectured to as if one is a silly schoolboy with no idea of current affairs is, quite frankly, pompous and annoying.
By all means, have a view on things, but respect others differing thoughts – I could have put another six or seven points to the nineteen footballing ones in this article and it was so easy to look them up and digest the excellent work being done behind the scenes…if one wanted to be balanced and fair, not hysterical and condemning of a group of people.
I have never seen one post on justarsenal, that says there is a problem with players salaries – but Jon seems to think he is the only one who has the intelligence to see it – Jon my friend, wake up and smell the coffee – we are not ignorant of the facts, you seem to be, as you had no idea that the nineteen points above had happened.
You ignore Sue’s point that she has been on the red waiting list for years, waiting for a season ticket – we don’t need the club to tell us that there is a waiting list, just listen to Sue and SueP’s experience…but that’s the problem, you don’t listen.
simple logic should tell you there is a very long waiting list, without doubting the club you profess to support.
I read your article, well written as usual, grammatically perfect and full of simmering animosity to a group of men who were offered a contract, agreed it and earn a fortune from doing it – the club you profess to support offered these players these obscene and grotesque salaries, yet you claim loyalty to this club and try to blame the players!!!
Here’s an example why I follow this great club:
A Gooner, who has followed the club for forty years and missed just four games (Phil you part timer!!) has been struck down with the corona virus and is on a ventilator, so a very serious case – he receives three letters saying get well soon and that he is in their thoughts – from Mikel Arteta, Tony Adams and Charlie George. No money involved, just doing it The Arsenal Way.
I am quite certain this fan(I can’t remember his name sorry) didn’t agree with everything that has happened at our club over his forty years of loyal support, but how he has supported the club!!!
THAT is what being a true supporter is about, follow the club through thick and thin – as you have done for years, knowing the club inside out and yet, for some unfathomable reason, try to bring it to it’s knees at every opportunity.
This virus situation has turned in to a crusade against our players and with this attitude Jon, I’m sorry to say, your decision to not follow our club is a blessing in disguise.
Ken- I have nothing to add other than wish the very best to this supporter. And knowing THE ARSENAL WAY, I’m not surprised at all by the reaction of the three individuals involved.
Phil, In reply to your post of 7.49, would you mind writing the WHOLE of my sentence which says precisely -as my words usually do – WHAT I want them to mean. I much dislike your journlistic like attempt to smear by cherry picking PART ONLY of my comment, thus giving a false meaning. The key part of my sentence, which you chose to leave out, began after a comma, with a “WHILST” in capitals.
I would love to opt out if commenting on what is a personal message to Jon
Supporting Arsenal has been part of my life and I will continue to follow the tradition which goes back to the 30s in my family’s case. I’m Mrs Miserable if they lose or play poorly and ecstatic when it goes well. Taking my eldest son, now in his middle 30s, to Highbury when he was 9 or 10 and we played Millwall, I shall never forget his little face when Tony Adams, to the roar of the crowd, led out the team. Moments like this, and we have all had them are priceless
My only problem is that the exorbitant salaries to which you refer I doubt are willingly paid by the club. It’s the going rate unfortunately and as long as football has a monopoly in popularity terms on world sport the rise will continue.
It is morally wrong that there continues to be such a disparity between their earnings and those of doctors, nurses, carers, factory workers et al but it is all about market forces
Whether or not this changes Post Covid, I’m not sure, but football and other high profile sports have enjoyed the financial big time and it is more than possible that however much we want to go to a match we may be priced out. The next generation will be paying the price of this pandemic for years and years
Ken, needless to say, I disagree with most, though not all, of the relevant parts of this unfair post with its untrue and unfair “Ken style self interpretations” of what I actually say and think and not, in most cases, what I ACTUALLY DO think.
YOU ARE VERY SKILLED WITH TURNING MY ARGUMENTS ON THEIR HEAD , thus giving them false meanings, but I will not let you do so, unchallenged.
You may care to comment on the FACT that I clearly said I will not watch this TEAM.
I DELIBERATELY DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN THE CLUB AND THE TEAM BUT THEN YOU ALREADY KNEW THAT PERFECTLY WELL. THOUGH IT DID NOT PREVENT YOU DELIBERATELY CHANGING WHAT I PRECISELY SAID TO FIT YOUR VIEWS, NOT MINE. SIGH!!
I quote “ I am pledged never to watch Arsenal again in the flesh and my heart tells me never to watch on tv either” end quote.
This from a post by @Jon Fox at 11.38 this morning.
Pretty hard to now say that these words were not said I would have thought Jon.
No Jon, I gave you an example of a fellow Gooner for forty years, who received three letters from certain individuals and classed it “The Arsenal Way”.
I described him as the perfect example of a real supporter who, without a doubt, must have disagreed with things the club have done over that forty years.
I then compared him to your stance regarding the club and how you have decided NOT to follow through thick and thin… the difference is their for all to see.
Jon, I have NEVER questioned your love for the club and your stories and involvement with The Arsenal and the players are a joy to read.
I respect you for that without question my friend, but I take exception to being called naive when my posts are misread.
What I cannot let you do, is try to destroy the players with such a one sided view on what they have/are doing, without challenging your motives.
Once again Jon, the club you undoubtedly support offered the players their obscene and grotesque salaries – yet you place no blame on the club, but instead start your own crusade and witch hunt against the players…without checking what they are actually doing as individuals – something that took me just 40 minutes to put together as an article.
SueP, it doesn’t matter whether the club thought they were worth it or not really does it?
Why did they offer them if they didn’t think they were worth it?
Pure economics – you compete or you don’t and the classic example is the news that Saka is being offered a, reportedly, vastly improved monetary contract – the club might not think he is worth it, but if they don’t they know the vultures will be in, quick as a flash!!!
HOWEVER, as I keep trying to explain to Jon, it is the clubs decision, the player will listen to the offer and either accept or decline…IF they offer him £80,000 a week and he accepts, do you think Jon will hound him as an overpaid mercenary, but support the club that actually offered the cash?
This view of the situation has no sense to it whatsoever and we have the Ramsey situation to see that – he wanted a reported £300,000 a week and the club declined, so they do have the option…please let’s stop blaming the players for accepting an offer the club made.
Let’s recognise what they are doing away from the limelight and wait to see if they become the first set of players to accept a wage cut,
Well said Sue you have summed up in a couple of paragraphs what it means to be a true football fan. You’re a breath of fresh air. Keep safe and well – your family too!!
😊 That is so very sweet of you, Andrew… thank you, i hope you and your loved ones stay safe and well too.
Ken
I always try to be reasonable when I post and I am surprised at your response to my point which I believe you have misinterpreted as being critical. My point is exactly the point you made after -simple economics Clubs don’t generally decide to give more unless they really have to and then it can be for any number of reasons at the time the pay award was given. The two players you have named are excellent examples. One is on the up and is in demand. The other wasn’t deemed worth that kind of money and was allowed to leave
SueP, I don’t understand why you think I am being critical, especially as we both agree on the simple fact of economics.
What I was trying to explain was the fact that the club does have a choice, economics or not and this is the point that is being ignored.
It certainly didn’t make economic sense to let a reported £40,000,000 player leave for nothing, but the club made that choice.
i.e. The Arsenal Football Club offered a contract worth a reported £350k a week to a player up and until 2022 – we are supposed to believe that said player did something wrong by accepting and the club is blameless – absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.
in actual fact, I’m not sure now whether Jon wants the players to take pay cuts to save the future of the club, or to donate to the NHS – he probably wants them to do both.
It would be interesting to know his thoughts on the rumoured salary increase for Saka and whether he approves or not and how he views the clubs stance on offering a reported large increase on his current salary?
It seems you and I understand the club has the first choice to make and the player makes the second decision – nothing could be simpler, unless there is another underlying reason to put the blame completely on the players, as suggested by Phil?
Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
MP’s pay is £79,500 a year. Not getting involved,just putting this out there.
Absolutely Ken
I always try to post as I see things and agree or disagree with everyone some of the time. It isn’t personal and I hope I am never rude. I wrote to Phil that debate is a wonderful exercise if respect is shown on both sides.
We are all GOONERS after all
Exactly that… in all the time I’ve been on here, one thing I can never quite get my head around is the arguments! I’m not pointing the finger, just explaining that we all have at least one thing in common, which has brought us here – supporting the greatest team the world has ever seen!
Yes we all have different views and ideas but over the years some exchanges have been terrible and have made me cringe and squirm!! I come on here to chat to fellow gooners, have a laugh and banter.. I can understand not seeing eye to eye with mancs, spuds, chavs and car jackers and arguing with them, but not our own …it.baffles me!
It’s the lack of football that is mashing our brains Sue
Sue, you are, of course 100% correct in all you say – it is the love of The Arsenal that joins us all together.
Debating and opinions are the slice of life and this great site gives us the platform to do just that – may I just say that YOU are, more often than not, the voice of reason and with SueP on board, we have two real Gooners to put us fellas in our place – long may it continue!!!!
Just playing devils advocate here guys
But didn’t this start as we were talking about non playing footballers playing there part in supporting there businesses who as it stands are unable to bring in finances
Now over to politicians
Aren’t they working at the moment ?
Believe I am no government lover and I believe all the privileged wealthy people should help out
I do my bit all year every year running my own outreach group before I get called out
So if we’re talking about footballers who earn a hefty wage cutting to help there business stay in a good position
As my post above
Then really politicians don’t come in to it
Although as the rest of you do I think we all believe they should do there bit
When are these TV presenters going to get their hand in their pockets COME ON WE ALL GIVING