There is an interesting article this morning quoting the ex-Liverpool FC midfielder Steve McMahon, who reckons that Aaron Ramsey is exactly what Jurgen Klopp needs to take his side to the next level. He said: “Liverpool would do well to get him,”
“He’s a midfield player who goes beyond the strikers and Liverpool haven’t got that.
“Liverpool have got good midfield players that play in front, they’ve got top strikers who score goals and have got pace, good defenders.
“But when it’s a bit of a stalemate, they haven’t got someone to go ahead, the third man running, not just to try and get a goal but to take the players away and open the space up.
“Ramsey is one of those players and is a goal-scoring midfield player with great technique.
“At a club, you’ve got your levels. Arsenal have their level of a wage structure and Liverpool can well afford the Ramsey’s of this world.”
Well all I can say is good luck with that. I am sure not many Arsenal fans would be too worried if Ramsey went to Anfield. He is Mr Inconsistent as far as I am concerned. Goal-scoring midfielder? An average of 3.7 goals a season over ten years are the actual facts. Would you pay him in excess of 200,000 a week? You are welcome to him!
Darren N
I don’t want us to strengthen other PL rivals unless we can help it. And at the very least he is good enough to strengthen the bench. And a strong bench is as important as a strong starting line-up.
I still wish we had Ox on our bench
I hope he will go abroad or to a team lower than us in the PL.
Or if he goes to United or Liverpool I hope we can get someone from their side
(Like Alexis for Mkhitaryan)
he will join for free…
Good enough to “strengthen their bench” is he? I had no idea he was a carpenter! He would certainly weaken their team were he to play more than a bit part, which he never will, nor at any top level team. We had a narrow squeak as Emery at first as appeared to rate him, initially and made statements to that effect BUT soon learned better when Emery saw him every day in training and on the pitch. Otherwise we would have had another merely middling player on a vastly unearned huge salary. His own financial greediness in not signing for what was on offer, before it was shrewdly withdrawn, saved us a fortune. Phew!!
We used to say same about ox
Darren, the real problem is this:
Clubs like Pool, Utd, City and Chelsea CAN afford to pay these salaries.
Take Ramsey out of the equation and insert, say, Griezman or any other top player.
This is where our club has struggled against our rivals for as long as I can remember.
Another recent name was Mata, nailed on to join us until russian roubles changed his mind.
Only Kronkie can change this situation and there seems no sign of that happening in the near future.
That’s why our pool of excellent youngsters could be the springboard to challenge for the likes of Griezman etc.
If they do fulfill the promise shown, Emery can use his transfer kitty on just one player in each window.
With regards to Ramsey, I get the feeling that we are dissing this man simply because he wanted the best for himself regarding a contract.
Of course he’s not worth anything like the amount being suggested by the media, but was Sanchez worth the reported £400,000 a week?
No player is bigger than the club however and Aaron played his cards completely wrong. I wonder what he is thinking now, especially being part of the Emery revolution for just a little while longer?
honestly if you think he should only think about the club but not about hmself then am sorry. it’s time he started thinking about himself.he is 27years now.
Amos, that’s what he has done and that’s why Arsenal have told him to leave.
I cannot see any reason to challenge my thinking as the scenario you describe has actually happened hasn’t it?
Good luck to him and his agent, my concerns and thoughts are about Arsenal Football Cub aren’t yours?
Ken Your reply to Amos, perfectly encapsultes my personal love of Arsenal FC, way, way, way, above the health and well being of any player once that player is no longer aiding Arsenal, or in Walcott style, still there(when he WAS) but harming the club by his still being there. It is clear you do too but seemingly Amos is rather confused as to whether he prefers the individual player or the club. We as fans, occasionally chant the name of one or other player, as do all fans everywhere. But we are all, or most of us at least, firstly fans of Arsenal FC, far more than ANY individual player. In my case this principle applies in exactly the same way, even though that particular player might be such as Henry, Bergkamp and that ilk. Club first, now and always. Players come and go.
ken1945: “I wonder what he is thinking now”… better think about yourself and why you are still his fan. There was lot’s of Wenger lovers on this forum but they realised that he was no good for us anymore.
I wonder how long it will take that his legacy of limited and overrated players will be gone from the club and minds of people who are playing FIFA more then watch real football.
Sorry but I can not see any other reason for people not to see how good/bad Ramsey and players like him (for ex. Loftus Cheek and Barkley) really are.
Although I am and always was an Arsenal fan one is true about real talent in UK football: Gazza was one and only!
Maks, sorry but you have totally misread my post.
I am not Ramsey’s fan,as you put it.
I actually asked about his feelings simply because his actions have seen the club tell him he’s no longer wanted.
That means he will not be part of the Emery era and the type of football he is producing.
What on earth Gazza has to do with it is a mystery to me, but he was a fantastic player.
Hope that clears it up for you!
C’mon ken I recall a friendly wager on Ramsey’s future under Emery which you had as bright given his quality and me suggesting emery would quickly realize his limitations as a very average footballer …. I think it will require more than a miracle on hornsey road for things to change but Christmas is always a time for wishful thinking I guess
Rkw, I’m obviously not explaining myself very well at all…so let me try again:
1.Aaron Ramsey was identified by Emery as an excellent player and suggested he could become a leader at Arsenal….I agreed.
2.Aaron Ramsey was offered a contract but refused to sign it…it was rumoured that the salary was the problem and he wanted near equality with Ozil. This has never been verified, but one can only assume it to be correct.
3.Aaron Ramsey said that the contract negotiations were ongoing withhis agent and the club.
4.It emerged from the club that a new contract had been offered to Aaron Ramsey that he found acceptable and was negotiated by Gazidis.
5. Gazidis left and the contract was withdrawn.
6.The club have been reported as telling Ramsey he has no future at the club and can leave in the summer, with Arsenal hoping to sell him in January.
They are the facts as I understand them. If you look back at the discussions that took place on here, once the details of his financial demands were “leaked” many fans of his, me included, turned against him. He was seen as holding our club to ransom, had become a victim of his own hype and completely mismanaged the situation.
NOBODY can do that and expect the fans to support him.
I absolutely stand by the clubs decision and it sends out the right message to anyone who thinks our club is a soft touch.
My only beef was why we keep playing him? Unless of course it’s to remind him of what he is about to lose playing under Emery and THAT was the point of my original post!!!!!
I think I have explained it in the next paragraph however, but it is only my opinion of course.
Would I have liked him to stay if his demands were sensible? Of course I would, his greed hasn’t changed his ability as a player has it?
It seems that Emery agrees with me on that, hence his continually playing either as sub or first eleven.
As Jon says below, it was a near miss for the club, but with Gazidis now gone, perhaps the salaries offered by the club will reflect the “self-sustaining model” that Kronkie seems eager to follow.
And THAT is where we have to be realistic in our demands for world class players and unlimited transfer funds.
The russian roubles and oil money will ALWAYS offer the kind of salaries that would turn most players head, don’t you agree?
It’s possible … The simpler explanation is that once he had to work with him Emery realized what an average player Ramsey was and didn’t want to waste any managerial capital trying to keep him on the books … Okam’s razor always a good guide on these matters
Rkw, that’s also possible…but the one big flaw in your argument is that Emery keeps playing him doesn’t he?
using your razor analogy, I feel Ramsey has cut his own throat with his wage demands.
Emery has decided that while we are still paying him each week, and as he is a player he rates, has decided to keep playing him.
Otherwise Rkw, what’s your answer to him being involved in every match?
The flaw in your logic to dismiss Ramsey as average and not waste anymore time on him is that Emery keeps playing him, so you need to ask yourself WHY?
Maybe you might reconsider which one of us won that friendly bet?
cmon .. hes a thursday night man and and an off the bencher … like elneny … at this moment in time its pretty clear that xhaka and the kid are ahead of him in the pecking order and rightly so .. he`s an expensive insurance policy and wheeling him out now and again reminds clubs hes a possible buy in january … thats about it and rightly so
Wheeling him out now and again?
Tell you what rkw, check how many games Ramsey has featured in since the season started…then can come back to me and explain your throwaway statement?
Again I ask you why does Emery keep playing him?
The other bit of nonsense that you say is that it keeps him in the window as apossible buy” in January.
Ramsey has stated quite clearly that he intends to see his contract out or have you missed that statement direct from Ramsey?
You can’t keep making up scenarios to suit your argument.
So three direct questions for you and I look forward to hearing from you soon!
Yes he started in first 3 or 4 games when torreira was being eased in but it is clear now … Accept perhaps to those who view the lost wenger years through rose tinted specs when Ramsey was the ludicrously touted as the next Iniesta …. That he is down the order behind torreira xhaka ozil and the kid … Above elneny that’s true but that says it all … Move on he is gone because he is an average footballer that Emery has seen through and I for one will be happy up we the back of him … A principle reason why we failed to strengthen midfield over past 5 years
Rkw, wrote one reply to you but it got lost!!!
So I’ll try again:
1. Ramsey was identified as a player who could lead the team by Emery and wanted him to sign the contract on offer.
2. Ramsey refused to do this and it was rumoured to be about salaries and his wanting to be nearer that of Ozil.
3. Ramsey said the contract discussions were being carried out by his agent and the club…a complete copout in my opinion and WHY my views about the man changed..no man bigger etc etc.
4. Ramsey continues to be selected by Emery, perhaps boosting the players ego and thinking he is worth more?
5. Ramsey is offered a new contract by Gazidis (one assumess) that comes up to his expectations and he agrees to sign it.
6. Gazidis leaves the club and the new contract is withdrawn…as Jon Fox says “a near miss” indeed.
7. Arsenal F.C. tell Ramsey he does not figure in their future plans and he is free to leave in the summer…would be better if we could sell him of course.
The fact that his demands were seen as too high does not change his abilities as a player ( whether you rate the guy or not ) and that is why there are other clubs with the resources to pay him what he wants seem to be interested in his services.
My interests are in AFC, so I wish him well, thank him for the fa cup goals and still wonder why Emery keeps playing him if he’s as useless as some on here seem to think he is!!!!!!
Maybe some of you should read through a posters post before writing jibberish- yes Maks I’m pointing my finger at you .
What an odd and incorrect comment of yours to accuse Ken of being a Ramsey fan. Do you have a comprehension of plain English problem?
We had a narrow and thankful near miss because of Ramseys financial greed. We were almost stuck with another huge waste of a new massive increase on a nothing special player. Thanks Aaron, for being greedy and allowing us to ditch you in a few months. A narrow escape. Phew!
Ken, Commenting specifically on your final paragraph, it is lovely to have skilful “poker players” now running the club in place of the last amateur CEO and socialist minded WENGER, who thought ALL THE PLAYERS SHOULD BE WELL REWARDED WHATEVER THEIR LEVEL. THink how many millions that stupid philosophy cost us and how many would be better players who might have come through earlier, were their paths not blocked by such as Walcott and loads of other nonentities on vastly unearned salaries, thanks to KARL MARX Wenger and his daftness. BTW, in Communist Russia, the workers in fact remained and still remain in poverty while the self enriched communist rulers AND THEIR FRIENDS, LIKE ABRAMOVITCH, made themselves filthy rich at the workers expense. Like WENGERS £10 MILLION POUND SALARY, FOR INSTANCE. To be plain I passionately believe in fairness but no smart club pays the also rans more than a fraction of what the top stars earn. Under WENGER WE CONSTANTLY PAID NON STARS FAR MORE THAN THEY DID EARN. Prime example was Walcott.
Ken, Please see my comment further down this thread , addressed to you but posted in the wrong place.
Jon, give me a clue which post as we both seem to have a lot to say on this subject of Ramsey!!!
I am not going to get into another AW baiting debate with you as I just can’t be bothered anymore…I’m sure it won’t last though.
What I will mention is the number of foodbanks we know have in this non-communist country, the number of companies finding every possible way to not pay the minimum wage as instructed by law, the number of bankers who reward themselves along with their boards ridiculous salaries and retrement plans, the number of companies that have radied their pension schemes and left millions of hard working people devoid of planned money in their retirement, the number of legitimate people being driven to suicide by the introduction of universal credit, the scandals surrounding our Mp’s and their expenses, the lies told during the Brexit debate, the scandalous decline in the number of police officers nurses, prison officers etc whilst bringing in tax relief for the richest in our society…. is that the FAIRNESS you are implying that you agree with Jon and is it JUST communists who exploit the working class and give themselves far more than they earn??
To use Wenger and his salary in this argument is a disgrace to your intellect Jon and one I never thought you would sink too.
Unless I am missing the point of your examples completely and if so then disregard the last sentence completely.
If not, just rest easy in the knowledge that every time AW’s team qualified for the CL it paid his salary….twenty of the twenty two years he was employed before he resigned.
Ken , First point is please disregard “the post below” comment, The original eventually came up , which you have seen but I did not realise at first , hence “see the post below” comment. As to the whole argument against capitalist unfairness, I am at one with you but I believe in total fairness and I see neither side, socialist nor capitalist achieving anything remotely near that IN PRACTISE. Rhetoric is fine but achieving fairness seems way beyond every government this country has ever had. But as we are discussing football rather than politics, I accept, as a realist, that top level football is often corrupt at governing level, ie FIFA, UEFA AND PREM LEAGUE AUTHORITIES TOO. If I could wave a magic wand I would totally change this in a heartbeat but I cannot. Since we all, as Prem team lovers, regularly sup at the Devil’s table, we cannot honestly complain that top Prem teams and virtually all of them, are run by corporate devils in immoral, obscenely capitalist ways decided in large part by which club has the most wealth. I detest this whole dilemma, which was at the heart of why I chose not to watch the World Cup. I could not stand the stench! But in typical hypocritical human condition , I and millions of others who may well think as I do, STILL choose to watch this largely financially corrupt top level “sport” and must accept- as we have no alternative – the appropriate level of corruption of our individulal club(s). Arsenal for example is clearly less corrupt than is City. This being the general case, corruption I mean, it is clear to me that if we choose to play in a capitalist run system then we must use it as best we can to the advantage of our club. And I maintain that paying mediocre or middling players the same salaries as top level players is foolish. It may be socialist but it does not work. But then I am neither a lover of OBSCENELY RICH corrupt capitalism nor of “magic money tree” socialism. Hopefully you now have a far better idea of my life philosophy. Always happy to answer any of your questions, naturally.
I should add that I see no comparison at all between well meaning but misguided socialism in Britain a la Corbyn and the corrupt fake communism, Putin style, practised for the last century in Russia. But then Russia before the revolution was also dreadful under the Tsars. I dare not go too far on a political diatribe as the Admin will rightly not allow it.
Jon, that makes more sense now youv’e explained it further.
Still unhappy that you spun Wenger into it however and I hope that you feel more at ease now you know that his salary was paid for by the perfomance of his team in qualifying for the CL twenty times in a row.
Finishing in the top four at the same time obviously meant that the prize money for that helped the club financially.
The real problem is the ruling bodies as you have identified and the one chance they had to clean it up (Blatter’s unmasking) they failed complelety.
I don’t see corruption being part of paying someone more than they are worth however. This dovetails nicely into the case of Ramsey.
He is clearly not worth what he has been led to believe he is, yet there will be clubs willing to pay what he wants.
That’s not Ramsey’s fault, it’s the way of the world today.
However, we as fans of Arsenal Football Club, whilst admiring the stance made, will never be able to compete against that philosophy.
I understand your frustration regarding the likes of Walcott, but if you look at the lower leagues as an example, players there are being paid thousands of pounds weekly.
If our club did not at least play ball within our “self sufficient” ideology, we wouldn’t be able to compete with Cardiff (no offence) let alone Everton or spuds.
In summary, pay the going price for the average player or face the consequences, that’s the law of the jungle like it or not.
Ken, Beautifully summed up. Could not dissent from a single word. The most apt, though awful comment since it is so true, is your final sentence. I have long had a conscience squaring the magnetic and wonderful game of football , esp at top level, with the endemic problem of it’s ruling authorities corruption. I just feel strongly that I should totally shun top football, as I DID FOR A SHORT SPELL IN THE WORLD CUP. But the damned drug is too strong for me. I really wish I could support a local league level club but it just does not excite me in the same way as watching the Ozils, on his day, and that level.
Jon, it is most certainly one of the most poweful drugs in the world….Arsenal and football that is.
I will pose one last thought on our enjoyable debate: you and I seem to have the same rules, logic, beliefs, standards and ideas.
What an enigma Arsene Wenger and his legacy must be to see us so far apart on this topic.
Still, you can’t be right all the time!!!!!! If I had a smiley face thing that would now appear twenty times.
The swap with Mikhi to us and Sanchez the other side was really a bad deal
Look at what we’re getting from Mikhi at 180k. Its a rob.
Truth is most players would leave cone next season,emery is no nonsense fit in or fit out simple,for Ramsey he got too much pampering for Wenger how can a player bit playing well and finishes a match, have not seen it with Emery so far, you are not doing it properly you get subbed immediately.ramsey is finding things tough under Emery. no room for kids glove
Emery seemed to make his mind up very quickly on Ramsey which to me shows the player would not fit into the style of play the Manager insists on playing.He is a good player.He is not a great player by any stretch of the imagination.As far as Liverpool are concerned it will be interesting to see if Klopp feels he can get more from the player than he ever showed at Arsenal.
Ramsey was the one who wanted the playmaking role and failed miserably.He simply does not possess the skill set to be this type of player.We seem to have Xhaka and Torreira as first choice central midfielders with Ozil as the pivot between the front three.There is no place for Ramsey in this system and that is why his contract offer was retracted.
As far as where does he go-why are we concerned?He has proved to be sub standard so who will believe he can improve at this stage of his career?
He will not like being on the bench so may try to force his way out in January.With AMN now fit and ESR looking ready for a run out from time to time we are well covered considering Guendouzi has already made a claim.
well….raul had a part too…hes the negotiator for contracts like what dein use to do…
raul would have advise Emery on the issue and situation so that Emery would be able to tailor his football plans
No doubt Raul was involved in the decision,it’s his responsibility now Gazidis has gone.But Emery will have had an input.The Manager is on record as saying Ramsey was to be a key player prior to the season starting so it didn’t take him too long to realise he was mistaken and saw what most supporters have seen over the last 10 years.
Good player but that’s all.Easily replaced and will not be missed
It s not just about “not fitting in the system”.
Raul knows and sees that Ramsey is not good enough and thinks he is much better then he is and thats it, no room for such a players at Arsenal anymore.
I would bet large money on the fact that if Ramsey goes to Pool HE WILL HARDLY EVER PLAY. HE WILL DISAPPEAR ALMOST WITHOUT TRACE AT ANY TOP LEVEL CLUB. HE WOULD BE GOING ONLY FOR MONEY, AS HE KNOWS WHAT I SAY IS THE TRUTH
Liverpool actually need a creative midfielder – they still miss coutinho.
Are you suggesting Ramsey is creative?I would not class him as that at all
If he does go to Liverpool he will spend a lot of time on the bench as I just can’t see him strengthening the team, I think he will go abroad.
I don’t care where Ramsey ends up. That is how much I rate him. If he was like a Cesc, Rosixky, Nasri, Cazorla, Daiby, RVP etc thenI would be sh!tting me self. But i rate him as high as the likes of Denilson, Xhaka (even if he seems to have improved), elnenyetc. I think he is only slightly better than Jordan Henderson of liverpool only because he can pop up with an odd goal here and there.
I agree 100% with you… well said.
Me too
Wishing a very happy Diwali to all fellow Arsenal fans, players, coaching staff and everyone concerned with the club. Long may our sparkling performances continue.
Question:
Can we SELL Ramsey in January?
Can we get Rabiot to replace him? He’s free next summer as well.
McLovin, you have got to the heart of the issue. Aaron Ramsey wants wages in excess of £200k per week. Sven and Raul have looked at the situation where a player such as Adrien Rabiot, is available on a free transfer, is a French International, at 23 years old is younger than Ramsey, at 188cm is taller (increases Arsenal’s physicality) and currently at PSG earns wages of €60k per week.
Ramsey and his manager gambled and lost.
Arsenal is depending on the trinity of Sven, Raul and Unai to identify young prospects, value high class players (such as Rabiot) or unpolished gems (Sven isn’t known as “Diamond Eye” for nothing), given the apparent financial constraints.
We won’t miss him in the slightest. All is strengths, his only one being stamina (but I question that as well) as a player are already bettered by others at the club already; and thats before we even go into the academy or transfer market.
Work-rate – Elneny, Guendouzi, Welbeck Etc
Goals – Ozil, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Mkhitaryan, Welbeck, Smith-Rowe etc.
Chance Creation – Ozil, Iwobi, Mkhitaryan, Guendouzi, Welbeck, Lacazette etc.
Defensive Contribution – Basically everyone else.
I could go on, but it already seems like a rant. So best of luck Aaron and GOODBYE!
“An average of 3.7 goals a season over ten years are the actual facts”
This is abuse of statistics and not fact. Ramsey was out for a year after a broken leg and then on loan back at Cardiff so you can’t average out his goals over 10 years as the denominator. Besides, he started out as a teenager who was not a regular in the team. He has averaged approximately 10 goals a season since he turned 23. He scored 16, 10 and 11 goals in three different seasons during this period and you are deliberately skewing facts to suit your narrative.
Ramsey is a good player and to lose him on a free transfer is a massive loss for Arsenal no matter what anyone tells you. Even if he no longer suits what the club want, he could have earned them a significant transfer fee.
TH14-TW14, Love the actual facts that you seem to produce into every discussion.
who knows what that horrendous Shawcross tackle did to Ramsey and how long it has taken him to get over it 100%?
Still doesn’t justify his contract demands of course, but sometimes it needs someone to remind others of significant happenings in a players career.
I wish him all the best, thank him for his contribution to the club, relive his cup final goals and think he’s been stupid in elevating himself to a level that he clearly is not.
Onward and upwards.