Nicolas Pepe joins Trabzonspor by Dan Smith
There is often a divide in our fanbase.
Some feel that the definition of any supporter is you must say everything about your club is amazing and that zero criticism is allowed.
There can of course be middle ground.
It is possible to acknowledge the improvement Arsenal made last season, both as a team and as individuals.
Arteta has many strengths, but that does not mean he’s immune from it being highlighted when he makes mistakes.
Our manager talks about his ‘ non-negotiable ‘ principles but those principles continue to cost us money.
Rumours range that Pepe was allowed to leave for free to Trabzonspor or that if we did receive a fee, it was a very small one.
That’s a huge loss on the 72 million we gave Lille in 2019.
The winger had long failed to justify what at the time was the most in our history we spent on anyone. Yet in a market where average talent can be valued at 40 million, Pepe isn’t so bad he warrants essentially being given away.
Yet suitors knew they could get the attacker for nothing because our manager in the last year hasn’t even pretended the 28-year-old has a future in North London.
The Spaniard refuses to wear a poker face, essentially walking around with a sign saying, ‘for free’.
Do these ‘non negotiables’ include making someone train in isolation without even a shirt number?
We will probably hear how the Ivorian didn’t suit his boss’ ethos. That would be believable if this were a rare occurrence.
Yet Ozil, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Luiz, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Mustafi, Willian, Niles …. the list goes on.
How many players have left for nothing?
Pepe was the last remaining player who started the 2020 FA Cup Final (Tierney is on loan), the last trophy we won.
Out of that starting 11, 5 (could be 6) left for nothing, only 4 we got any money for (and we are talking 4 million for Holding and possibly 3 for Pepe).
Nicolas Pepe has left Arsenal to join Trabzonspor on a free transfer ✍️🇹🇷pic.twitter.com/xkoHM86uya
— Sky Sports Premier League (@SkySportsPL) September 8, 2023
I have long said that the Kroenke Family should have made it part of the job specification to get the best out of the resources he inherited.
A rookie boss at the time now thinks it’s standard to just wash your hands and give up on assets.
It’s a business model which has cost us millions and which one agent claimed makes us a laughing stock in the industry.
Look how much talent Chelsea wanted to offload this summer and look at the prices they got.
Man City just got over 40 million for a player yet to score in the League.
They do that by holding cards close to their chest.
If Arteta had even pretended Pepe could have a role in the team (I maintain he’s just as good as a Nketiah or Nelson), it would have increased the chance of a larger sum.
If you own lots of cars and have a history of selling them on the cheap when you get impatient, buyers have no indication to make you a crazy offer if they know you will end up giving the item away.
Arsenal won 14 FA Cups in our history.
Pepe contributed to one of them.
No one can take that away from him.
Good luck to Pepe in Turkey.
Dan
Some where in this lad there is still a player there.
Hope’s he comes alive soon after joining and make his family proud
Couldn’t agree more Dan 👍
The winners in this saga are Pepe and his agent, Lille, Trabzonspor, Arteta and Edu.
Pepe and his agent have pocketed Arsenal salaries and Trabzonspor signing fee.
Lille got 72M.
Trabzonspor have gotten a quality player who they are going to sell for a considerable fee in the future.
Arteta and Edu for getting new improved contracts by doing the shittiest job in players transfers history. Making a fool out of the owner.
The only loser is Kroenke and rightly so. Wish he could lose more because he let Wenger carry the cross for his lack of investment in the team.
Not like we never lost money on players under Wenger 🙄
Do I have to ask for the list? You were supposed to list some examples.
Memory fading you, or we’re you not around in the days when Invincibles were allowed to leave for nothing ? Sol, Edu, Wiltord, Pires ring any bells ? Then you can add Arshavin, Santos, Sagna, Fabianski.
That list is off the top of my head, probably others as well.
Will not even waste my energy debating this with you. Very weak argument. Weaker than a hatchling.
You can’t debate it because what I posted was facts !
It doesn’t need a basic intelligence to understand you can’t give away a free agent.
Blind following trigger a fight or flight emotion which in Arteta’s blind followers case shows in their tendency to jump in defense without thinking what they are defending in the first place. Whatever comes in mind comes out instantly.
I am beginning to think you all do it subconsciously.
Did we receive any monies for the players mentioned ? No ! So they were indeed given away !
Not sure what you’re on about with your “Artetas blind followers”, as I’ve always given a new manager time, especially a new manager in the top English League.
How does one go on selling a free agent? How is it done?
I’ve never seen or heard of that happening HH, perhaps we’ll get an explanation?
One doesn’t let the players get to the stage of being free agents… simples.
But it happened and they left for free, as HH said.
Just as the word “prior” was incorrectly used by me.
Not like we didn’t make money on players under Arsene either!!
Anelka anybody?!?!
I can’t recall Le Prof giving players away, or losing nearly £70,000,000 on a player.
We have to remember that MA didn’t sign him, but it was his decision to let him go.
Just read that we still have to pay one last payment of just over £10,000,000, so I’d love to see the facts regarding one single player that Arsene let go like this!!!
Anyone who tries to condone this, does not have a clue!!
Unless it can be proved otherwise of course?!?!
You want to know players we made profit on
Anelka
Petit
Viera
Overmars
Cole
Henry
Fabregas
Vanperse
Adebayoure
Toure
Nasri
To name a few
It would be interesting to see just HOW much we made on the players you mention Dan, as it seems some fans are celebrating the fact that we made a profit on Balogun… a reported £30.000.000 and I believe that he was part of the “deadwood” he inherited?!
Am I correct in saying that’s his first profit from a first team squad player?
How much did we make on
Park
Danilevičius
Lauren
Header
Vivas
Suker
Kiwomya
Linighan
Inamoto
Reyes
To name a few more.
First, Pepe’s transfer fee is amortized over the term of his original contract, 5 years. With one year to run, his unamortized value to the club is approx. 14 million. If Pepe had proven good at Nice last year, some team would have made a bid. If more than one team thought Pepe was an upgrade on what they already had, there would have been a bidding war. The fact is no one offered Arsenal more than to take him on a free transfer, except a Saudi team. Pepe did not want to play there, thus Arsenal was left with a Turkish catfish, plumbing the river bottom for a body and hope.
I can’t believe the Arsenal owners will be happy to lose 70m without either getting something from his playing time or throw his sale just because Arteta thinks he is crap.
There must be more to this story than we can see & the loss may not be as high as we think
We saw how big clubs threw expensive flops away for free, as if they never paid huge amount of money for those players
If I were one of those big clubs’ owners, I would never sanction such charity, because it’s like dumping £50m to a trash can
This is why I suspect most of those flops were bought with installment, performance, appearance and achievement clauses, as a fail-safe
Having said that, Arsenal’s player sales are generally awful since Sanllehi came. I hope we can sell some players with good prices in next summer
It doesn’t matter if it’s an instalment plan, as, in the long run, we have to pay the agreed transfer fee… that’s why The Arsenal are paying the full (reoorted) £72,000,000, including the final £10,000,000 plus, even though we’ve sold him for £3,000,000.
I suspect there were performance, appearance and achievement clauses to allow Arsenal pay less than £72m
It’s hard to believe that an astute businessman like Kroenke would fully pay £72m for someone who rarely played in the last two seasons
DAN makes some interesting contrasts in his piece.
I find a deal to agree about but wish to add some context. I do agree that MA would be probably a far worse poker player than anyone else, save probably a dog.
(I have been dog obsessed since a tiny boy andwhat I LOVE about dogs, is the honesty and how their true feelings are blatantly obvious all over their body, face and tail Hence my poor poker player line.)
MA though he tries hard to disguise it, is almost equally easy to read when he does not want a playerinhis nteam or club. On PEPE, I say he is TOTALLY right, not to want a player of such obvious lack of personality and desire anywhere near our club.
However, DAN IS correct to say thus trait HAS cost us money when letting unwanted players leave, either for peanuts,like HOLDING, for free, or even paying them,in future wages, to leave. OZIL FOR EXAMPLE.
But what would DAN have MA do?
Should he seriously be expected to play a two faced act,, by pretending he wants to keep a player, while at the same time not picking him, which would harm the team!!?
I suggest you should never ACT with players but should always be totally upfront and clear. And , to his credit, MA is just that and will remain that ,as it is his character ,his very nature.
In a deep squad, which FINALLY, we now have – a deeper one still would be preferable but money is not limitless- there will always be players , very much still wanted by MA, but who will play less often than the regulars.
That is the very nature of top fotball and applies to all top clubs(and lesser ones too, BTW!) I think to blame the manage for making it very clear a player is unwanted, though it can be costly, it is thlesser of two so call3ed “evils”! To mask a desire to let an unwante player leave and to act out charade , by perhaps even picking him,, at times simply to keep any tranfer fee value he has,is damaging and wrong policy.
And THANKFULLY, MA does not do it
However NONE OF THE ABOVE, in any way is the same as the manager himself , spending huge money on a player who proves a flop. THAT is simply bad judgement and is what SOME on here already think about HAVERTX.
Personally , I will reserve judgement, for sometime yet.
As for any mere further acedemic judgement on a player who now HAS LEFT and therefore of no futher concern to AFC supporters, I leave that to others, as “ancient football history” is not MY preferred discussion.
I thought you told our younger supporters that they needed to know the history of our club Jon? 🤔
I think that MA, rightly or wrongly, wanted his own squad and, apart from the obvious Saka, ESR etc, has gone about doing just that – with the blessing of the owner. 👃
There can be no more excuses about what he inherited and there doesn’t need to be. MA will be judged on HIS players, HIS signings and HIS transfers out…. that’s how it should be and we should all keep an eye on the likes of Balogun and Pepe, in order to judge him, along with his own squad of players 👀.
NAUGHTY NAUGHT KEN! You know very well exactly what I meant and what ! did not mean , when I used that ancient history phrase and in THAT context.
I do not mind you doing at all- I do it myself ,often, but only use it in the contecty of the othe person being equally bright and understanding it is just teas
ing. Problem JA has though, with possibly a majority who postthese days, who havenot first language English, is that so many take words and phrases used by fluent English speakes as being ” LITERALLY TRUE” and have not the language skills to know the many silky nuances in your and my own rich and difficult langauge.
I find the general lack of good English on JA, in general, particularly hard to bear at times.
I HAVE CONSTANTLY TO TEACH ENGLISH TO POOR SPEAKERS, even though I would rather not need to.
But, either they falsely accuse me of saying what I HAVE NOT SAID, or they simply misunderstand basic English.
Not their fault of course, but neither is it mine.
BTW, why mention PEPE,as he was not MA’s buy?
Unless you think MA was wrong to let him go. I THINK HE HAD NO ALTERNATIVE, in reality, considering we need NO passengers . There were no other firm bids either, as he was useless, certainly to us.
I mentioned Pepe, simply because he’s the subject of the article and it will be interesting to see how he and Balogun progress under managers who want them.
I really am not bothered about the way fans use the English language Jon, especially after the discussion regarding the word “corrupt” and it’s different meanings from such scholarly individuals as yourself.
Me? I’m just a 98% O level pass man, but I try to improve daily!
I’m very aware that I can only converse in my native tongue and simply admire those who have mastered other languages – I tried and failed on many occasions.
As long as I get the gist of what they are implying, I’m a happy bunny….but I understand your frustration…as I’m sure you did with the “corrupt” issue?
You really were born in the wrong century. You would’ve made a fine missionary or colonial officer.
Is THAT for me or Jon HH?
It’s for Jon. I can never say something like that to you. I have nothing but utmost respect for you.
Though I don’t think he is a bad person he clearly has a superiority complex.
👍
Selling on players has definitely been a soft spot for Arsenal but I won’t go into details. The latest, Pepe, doesn’t surprise me but it is a shame because the man is talented but just didn’t impress enough to make the starting line up and latterly, the squad. He’s another player that needs an arm around him and I wish him well in Turkey. I wonder if we will still pay his wages I believe he was on £150k pw!
Nice job to reduce the number of squad
I have a great fear that Haverz will be the next great loss to Arsenal.
Even with the new Saudi buyers in the market, nobody wanted to pay more for Pepe.
That is the simple truth.
But as we still owe £10,000,000 plus, why sell him anyway?. Surely he would be useful in the four different competitions we are currently in?
Dont you think, as I do , that if the manager we are presumably there to support, thought he had ANY use to us, then he would have kept him?
And isn’t the fact that not a ingle club worldwide thought him worth paying anything but peanuts for, at least a hint that MA was correct to get him gone, even at such a loss.
Why not blame the corrupt manwho brought him here, SANLLEHI -incredibly and wrongly simply sacked but not prosecuted for frauf by KROENKE AND SON- rather than blaming our manager for having the sense to see he is , to us anyway, effectively useless. As that measly £4 mill shows us. In fact, some say its only £3 mill, but either way he WAS, but to us, no longer IS, still useless.
As you can see above, I made the point that MA didn’t sign him, but he made it clear he didn’t want him, sold him for a reported £4 million, while we STILL have to play another £10 million plus final instalment.
No one else did that!!
ken, it looks like Saka will be played into the ground like last season, when Pepe could have been retained to relieve Saka. Maybe that will be the ultimate use of Havertz, although I would prefer Nelson this season.
Pepe has been devalued by the way we have used (or more to the point) not used him. At some point all of this devaluing of players will catch us up. Ozil was devalued, Leno was devalued, AMN was devalued, Auba was devalued, Lacca was devalued, just to name a few. It will come back and bite us in the bum somewhere. I suspect.
Turn the other cheek Reggie and be happy it’s not your money MA is spending.
If this season ken, we win the league or CL, then to some degree it lessens the impact. If we dont, it increases the impact. And yes ken, if it was my money, i would want a repayment in the league or CL.
I made a statement that i thought that only two teams, Utd and Chelsea, had “wasted” more money than Arsenal, and two days later, i read officially that that was indeed correct.
Then by your logic we should have kept playing a player who was not doing the business and kept playing him, so as not to reduce his value.
Funny how certain folk say exactly the opposite about Havertz, a man who has played only four Prem games in our shirt. Something does not add up there I SAY, logicwise! Perhaps we SHOULD, using your”logic”kept playing all the duds you listed.. At least that way you may be sure that the resulting low midtable finish would have seen your foe MA sacked.
Jon, why are you using the word “foe”?
That is a BLATANT mis-use of the word… unless you see anyone who questions MA as foes?
Not so, in REGGIES case Ken. Til very recently, when he has tried to have it both ways with MA, Reggie had spent all MA ‘s entire time here, criticising and belittling him.
That is WHY I used that word. You should know me better than to think I ever use English incorrectly.
I realise you have often thought that, but those occasions are where we differ greatly on various matters.
When you stick to same 14 players and do not rotate – this will be the result. Value drops for players who do not get minutes.
ESR 2 years back was commanding 40mil. Now just because he is English he might command 20mil.
Laca is doing good after leaving Arsenal – lacked confidence here. Willian did ok too. How much is Nelson worth when you do not play him at all? NKetiah almost lost his value towards end of last season being banished visibly when Trossard came in. Partey should have been moved on with a Saudi move this season – we were the only unlucky EPL top club who did not get Saudi money.
Why is Soares and Elneny still around? The mismanagement of the roster is too bad under Arteta to expect any big squad player sells. When Chelsea paid 37m for Jackson with 11 goals in La Liga, how can we not get 50m for Balogun?
I must admit I don’t know how the Arsenal franchise operates. I also agree Arteta,like every other person makes mistakes.But sometimes Dan,it seems your criticism of Arteta far outweighs or is not commensurate with praise(if any) for Arteta. For a manager who finished second,you’d think he’d get like 60% praise and 40% criticism but I’ve always felt like he gets criticism only from your end. It would be interesting to see an article from you on some of the good stuff Mikel has done.
Back to my first sentence, I don’t know the inner workings of the club but I feel some shortcomings of the club are unfairly blamed on him. For instance,is he really responsible for transfers? I imagine the club has experts who handle that. About him freezing out Pepe,you could argue that having a player who is not considered part of the plans could lower morale in the camp especially if their attitude isn’t right. Managers in the past used to be “all powerful”.They handled many aspects of their clubs apart from coaching. Now there are several experts and administrators who handle various operations and coaches pretty much do just coaching.It is easy to think a coach is ultimately responsible because they are in the public eye. But I suppose some of the incompetence is from people behind the scenes.
To they pick team for him behind the scene?
No HH,but the sale is done behind the scenes. And I understand there’s a lead negotiator employed by the club to handle that.
Just to add on Pepe. We had another player in Balogun who was in an almost similar situation. Both considered surplus to requirements and sent to France on loan. Balogun ends up signing for Monaco for a record sale yet like Pepe,it was obvious he wasn’t in Arteta’s plans for this season-this didn’t affect his value. Pepe didn’t have any meaningful suitors whereas Balogun was highly sought after. Then you have to wonder,is it about the management or the player?
You speak of City making 40 million for a player yet to score in the league. Well Arsenal made an almost similar amount for Balogun who has basically never played in the league. You just can’t compare Pepe to Palmer without proper context. I believe a lot of context is required when evaluating the departure of players-no two transfers are similar and ideally ought to be evaluated individually. There are many things that come into play like age,length of contract,wages a player is on,form,notoriety(brand),character and I suspect even politics in some cases.And just to stress again,we don’t have all the insider information. That said,like you,I agree that there’s room for improvement regarding sales.
Onyango, what “franchise”? It is a private comany owned wholly by KSE.
As for the rest of your post, it makes the usual great sense.
We shouldn’t forget that Pepe was a decent player (with impressive statistics – goals plus assist) who paid the ultimate price for the dreadful deal involving Willian.
Tierney for Zinchenko could be another example.
The playing careers of ESR and Trossard could follow the same path too because of Kai Havertz.
Some will say just shut up. Be quiet. It’s just our cherished deadwood-creating process in full effect.
All i see in Pepe’s sale is a smart investment.
You’re not seeing well. You need glasses.
You need to go to specsavers🤣
All in all Arteta built a great squad. All of the players you mentioned – Ozil, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Luiz, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Willian, Niles were just not good enough. There was not much demand for most of them, and most did badly in low-level leagues after living us. In some cases ripping up contracts enabled us to save money as the alternative was to get stuck with 200+ pounds a week frozen squad player.
It is true some of them like Auba and Willian got their contracts under Arteta, but that was at a time when we were in at bad position on the transfer market, with no CL, so could not attract top talent, and had to give big money to some of our main players who were still performing at that time in a very mediocre squad, or pay big money for players so they consider coming to us. So at that time we could only gamble with young talent or rejects from top teams. We got some right, some wrong, but overall this strategy enabled us to build a great squad, from a very very bad position just 3 years ago. So all this complaining is detached from real facts.
You have a illusion if you think Arteta has built a very good squad. Just think seriously The most valuable players of current squad like Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Niketiah are promoted by other managers which costed nothing and saved Arteta’s job. In fact Arteta is afraid to give chances to academy players. Odegaard, Gabriel Maghales are the only player Arteta has who have more value as per price paid. Compare this to how much value Arteta has destroyed Auba, Laca, Pepe, Niles, Willian, Luiz, Sores, Runarson, Chambers and some more talented academy players leaving as not getting chance at least in cup competitions. I have not mentioned Mustafi, Kolasinac. His judgement is so bad that he paid 65M for Havertz and give him big salary. These wastage of money, not promoting from academy and buying average players for expensive fee will bite us. A club like Arsenal can not sustain this for long. Look at Barcelona even they were winning titles but they did some expensive mistake like Coutinho etc. and they paid the price.
adding to the long list of wasted players…a long line of keepers too – Martinez, Leno, Runnarson. And very soon, Ramsdale too. (that’s why he signed Rya).
I really do not see how, as you say Arteta has saved us money. Are you saying he is involved in this someway (selling deliberately at a loss) i thought EDU did the buying and selling. The selling is becoming harder due to the devaluing and not selling ( if they are not wanted ) at the right time.
For instance, after 2 years of Pepe at Arsenal, he still had a value. After 4 he didn’t.
After 2 years at Arsenal Auba had a value, after 3 we gave him away, for 6 month later, Barcelona make a 10 mil profit on same player. AMN was subject to a 20 mil bid from Wolves, 2 years later, he leaves for free. Now for me, with any stretch of the imagination, that is poor mis management of funds from someone.
I agree with the article, 100%. Arteta acts like a supremely spoiled child who will not touch a toy or budget he doesn’t like. Nketiah and Nelson may be more professional in their approach in comparison to Pepe, but they’re definitely not better players.
There’s a reason Arteta wouldn’t dare give Pepe a chance with the current team; he would shine, and thereby disprove the narrative he’s useless. The coach decided a long time ago he doesn’t want Pepe, but it’s a pity his ego driven decisions come at a cost. I can’t recall being as frustrated about Pepe, as I’ve been about Havertz. I dare say, I’m not alone.
Agreed. We should’ve sold to one of the other clubs bidding for him. Oh wait…
Or kept him as we still owed £10 million plus and can’t sign anyone else till January.. Oh wait
Pepe was rarely tried where he was successful (i.e. left wing) or as a striker where he was unpredictable.
I think he can recover his form under a manager who plays him more consistently.
Pepe was never a 72 mil player but he was never a dud, to be given away for nothing either. If Arteta didn’t fancy him, why on earth didn’t we sell him, after his first two years where he had performed and would have had a value?
As one or two people here have pointed out a number of fans want every thing their own way and continuously attempt to undermine Arteta/Edu at every opportunity. Several of these so-called fans also falsely claim that they support him whilst unfairly criticising some of the key decisions that have helped Arsenal evolve into one of the best squads in the PL.
Over the last few seasons it has been essential to bring in players to improve the squad. We want to be challenging for the PL, CL and various cup competitions. In order to do this the squad inevitably had to undergo change.
Complaining about the sales of the likes of Aubameyang and Ozil who were no longer contributing effectively and were increasingly unnecessary distractions has been a regularly recurring refrain of certain detractors. The fact that some on here continue to insinuate that these players were somehow treated unfairly or that their removal from Arsenal’s squad was detrimental to our progress demonstrates the warped reasoning amongst a number of fans.
Those criticising the costs have also never given reasonable alternatives given Arsenal’s context over the last few years. We are competing against some of the strongest competition there has ever been. That Liverpool who quite a few like to cite as exemplars of excellence in the transfer market are not in the CL highlights what every top tier team is up against.
Is it really the case that the Arsenal manager should be focusing on getting the maximum value out of players who are unlikely to be part of the team’s future rather than ensuring the progressive development of a team able to compete against Europe’s elite teams?
This article does not present any kind of balanced consideration of Pepe’s circumstances and the other players who are cited as having been treated in a similar way. Are we really expected to believe that it was unreasonable to have transferred out the likes of Kolasinac, Niles, Ozil etc. in order to build the squad we currently have?
This is yet another hatchet job praised as usual by those who often have little positive to say about the manager’s work.
Yes the managers job is to get maximum from the resources. To build stronger team he can give away few if needed (like Kolasinac, Ozil). but the complaint is by his ego he is devaluing so much players who are/were salable assets like Niles, Pepe, Terney, Guindozi, Auba etc. The he has a very bad judgement about keeping players and buying average players on high fee. Leno, Runarson, Mari, Sorress, Willian, Havertz etc. Look how many deadwood he is creating. He just achieved Top 4 by players promoted by previous managers Like Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Niketiah. You see the patterns even Arteta was very reluctant to give chances to these stars and only played them as he did not choice. Did he promote and gave significant chance to any academy player in these 4 years. No. Still we get knocked out in starting rounds of Cup competitions. previous managers were giving chances to academy payers in these competitions and still progressing top 16 of champions league.
The point is for few bad behaved players Arteta’s dealing can be justified. But he has done value damage for too much players (Even a decent team can be formed from this list and they can achieve at least mid table in EPL)
Well it’s been confirmed on Arsenal.com, “We have agreed with Nicolas to terminate his contract with immediate effect”. Contrary to rumors of a 3 or 4M transfer fee, we are getting nothing from his move to Trabzonspor. A total write off
I wanted pepe to be trained as a CF
before is departure, because his finishing was very good.
TBH he was the best finisher in our team
I wanted pepe to be used as a CF.
TBH he was the best finisher in our team.