Posted on November 22, 2018 by ADMIN

Are Arsenal finally going to invest to get us back into Champions League?

How refreshing to get some clarity from Arsenal this week about the millions we are losing by not being in the Champions League, making a return to the competition the minimum requirement. While I don’t wish the club to lose money it is the only way Stan Kroenke is likely to put his hand in his pocket. For years the American had the dream business model. He employed a manager who could get us in the top 4 without demanding a massive transfer kitty. He would then bank the cash without ever having the ambition for us to try and win the thing.

Now he might think it makes business sense to invest in the short term resulting in getting his investment back when we are back at Europe’s top table. The few football people around him should be warning the longer those above us get UEFA money to improve their squads, the longer we will remain in the Europa League. Arsenal are currently 6/4 with bookmakers to finish in the Top Four, but make sure you use this bet365 bonus code 2019 before parting with your cash.

But there are no guarantees we will better our position from the last campaign. The fact a 16-game unbeaten run is only good enough for 5th shows you the standards we are up against. Which is why if our owner wants to buy a striker in January, he needs to be serious. There was talk a few months ago about us scouting in the MLS, I’m hoping Welbeck’s injury has made us reconsider the need for a proven scorer at this level. Some gooners were unhappy with my assertion that a player in the American MLS couldn’t step up to the Premiership. That really wasn’t my point. That’s the type of gamble you make when you are top of the table. It’s the wrong time in our history to be trying to find gems. Too many times finding value is prioritised over ‘can the individual improve the standards?’

I’m praying missing out on all that comes from being in the CL is the wakeup call Mr Kroenke needs. If we can buy from the USA for 12 million but then a Bournemouth offer us Wilson for 25, go that extra mile for the sake of the bigger picture. No one is asking us to do a Leeds and fork out fees we haven’t got, but don’t underestimate how rich we are, we could be doing so much more during these windows.

Excluding Leicester, history shows you finish where you spend. So, if we want to finish higher, we need to spend bigger.

Dan Smith

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37 thoughts on “Are Arsenal finally going to invest to get us back into Champions League?

      1. jod

        No they weren’t. Since Arsenal had much greater revenue through the larger stadium and Wenger qualifying for the champions league every year while Spurs were in the Europa they didn’t have the money to match Arsenal’s spending. Still don’t, although the new stadium will eventually change that.

        1. Phil

          Not until they finish paying for it.They need to find £800m from somewhere so if they fail to get Champions League where will that leave them.Selling their best players as we had to and The Emirates cost (only) £400m and was built on time and on budget.
          Poch will be under orders to get CL at all costs.And let’s not forget this is a Manager with ZERO TROPHIES on his CV

          1. jod

            Number of points here. As far as the construction goes, if you build a more advanced stadium you take more risks of cost overruns. On the other hand since the stadium will be there for a 100 years it might pay off in the long term. It’ll be twenty years before you can work out whether the gamble was worth it. As far as the costs go we are in a different world from when Arsenal’s stadium was built. Construction costs are much higher but so are TV revenues. Interest rates are lower. How that all balances out only the accountants know. If its about trophies and Wenger won three FA Cups in five years why get rid of him ? Because of course its not about trophies, its about top four, the premier league title and winning the champions league. Nothing else really counts. As far as players go we don’t so much buy them as develop them. We’ve been doing more with less for some years now, so why would anything change while we pay off the stadium ? Add to that the actual value of players (100k+ for Harry Kane) and you wouldn’t have sell many to pay off the debt.

            1. ken1945

              jod, you are ignoring some really fundamental points in your argument.
              Firstly, the Emirates was a completely new ground, built from land that had nothing to do with football.
              spuds “new” ground has been built around the old ground and have also, or should have done, learnt from the experience of the Emirates and the disaster of Wembley.
              They obviously haven’t as it will be a year behind completion date as it stands today.
              Until the Emirates was built, there hadn’t been a “new” football stadium with a capacity of 60,000 plus erected in England for over fifty years (I believe).
              The Emirates was the most “advanced stadium” designed and adapted for the modern game.
              It catered for a new breed of fans, a new breed of player and a new breed of football.
              The costs then were as relevant, in comparision, as the costs are to spuds today in terms of value for money.
              The Arsenal and it’s contractors delivered on time, in budget and the rest is history..a complete success.
              The stadium has now been payed for, which means we are ten years ahead of them doesn’t it?
              That was over ten years ago and nothing as ambitious as this has been tried since, untilthat is, spuds efforts at emulating this achievement.
              spuds should have watched and learnt from AFC, but it seems they have overstretched in their ambition to build a better stadium..
              Not only have they got to pay the rising costs of the ground, there is also the price of hiring out Wembley, the return of season ticket money and the fines incurred for the late completion as promised to Eufa and the premier league.
              You then say they can sell Kane for 100,000,000 to help offset this massive debt and, yes, that could be the case.
              But then what, replace him with who and at what cost and that goes for every player they might have to sell from the present squad.
              Our club has lived through that and know the consequences.
              Tv revenue etc have gone up, but you neglect to say that players salaries have gone through the roof at the same time.
              Why do you think spuds didn’t sign anyone in the summer (the first time ever that a premier league club failed to do so)?
              Surely it has to be the spiralling costs of the ground?
              My final thought for you is this, could Poch do what AW did in this situation and keep claiming a top four place?
              I personally don’t think so, especially as spuds have won nothing under him, even with the likes of Kane etc etc.
              Of the three examples you gave for success, Poch over five years, has achieved just two of the fifteen opportunites he had (CL qualification). AW only achieved three in the corresponding five years and he left the club because of it.
              Don’t dismiss the fa cup wins either, just because, of course, Poch has won none at all. The revenue that particular trophy brings in would also help pay for the stadium wouldn’t it?

              You are absolutely correct regarding the need to qualify for the CL, it’s such a pity it’s taken so long for some of our fans to realise that fact.
              I’m sure with Unai Emery in charge, it won’t be long before the famous “gap” appears once again.

              1. Durand

                The atmosphere and environment completely different now Ken I would argue. Wenger had sir Alex and no other top manager to go against almost weekly.

                Now its no longer two at the top like Arsene and sir Alex. Pep, Jose, Klopp, etc…there is a growing list of quality managers to compete against now.

                Remarkable achievement by Wenger with 20 yrs in CL. Never be seen again because too much money, too many quality managers, and too many owners willing to spend in today’s climate of revenue.

                Wenger had fantastic run, but no way he or anyone can replicate that in today’s environment. You can’t make mistakes in the market and survive to finish in top 4.

                It’s completely different from that past environment. Technology and scouting, TV revenue, rubrics and training, it’s not realistic to compare today’s managers against the context of that past. Even the great sir Alex would be humbled against Pep, Klopp, etc…and be less successful just as Wenger was.

                Top 4 was only 4 teams fighting for a pecking order. Now, 6 teams are fighting for 4 spots, and 2 teams fighting for the title.

                1. TH14-TW14

                  Benitez, a Champions League, EUFA Cup, La Liga And FA cup winner failed to make top 4 in 2006, yet you claim it was “Top 4 was only 4 teams fighting for a pecking order”. Was Liverpool not out of the top 4 for quite a few years while Wenger was constantly making it? Did Chelsea not fail to do so twice while Wenger still made it? Did Manchester United not fail for 3 seasons while Wenger still made it? All these seasons in reference, those clubs spent much more than Wenger.

                  Wenger made top 4 because he is a brilliant manager and not for some imaginary lack of competition.

          2. Uchman

            And u still think Wenger was a disaster for giving us champions league football even with those challenges? Kudos man!

            1. ken1945

              TH14 and Uchman, what you both say is totally correct and I think the way some fans view our ex manager will change as time goes by.
              Do you agree with me, however, that the final two seasons were awful and it was time to move on?
              I believe it was, both for him and the club and the appointment of Emery has been, to date, a excellent choice.
              Would really like to know your thoughts.

  1. ken1945

    It’s amazing to me just how long it has taken to realise just what finishing in the top four really meant to the club.
    Suddenly every Tom Dick and Harry wants what was derided as inadequate for so many years.
    That is why I see the last two years as being the only unsuccessful period under our ex manager and the fa cup wins were icing on the cake. in terms of being part of the elite, except for those two years and now it’s up to Kronkie to support Emery FULLY in order to get back into that top four position.
    The club were financially successful as we were also on the pitch and Unai can reproduce those times if backed properly.
    The obscene amount of money that clubs are / have been spending to try and claim one of these top four finishes is incredible and that’s why Arsenal Football Club should be held up as a shining example of what can be achieved with due diligence.
    I have to include spuds in this example as of today, BUT their time of austerity is about to come.
    Sell Kane to help pay the debt? Sounds reasonable until you then have to replace that calibre of player with what?
    Welcome to the world of realism…the grass is ALWAYS greener, until you face it in reality.

    1. john hodges

      very well put ken,i said but in not so many words the same.ken wait for the backlash from you know who.

  2. jon fox

    There seems to be a school of thought growing that Kroenke is BOUND to start spending bigger in order to regain the top four and thus get CL qual. Though a sensible thought in principle, it fails to allow for the fact that leaopards do not change their spots, not snakes their tendency to poison everything they bite. Kroenke is only interested in more and more money but to me it seems he personally will be better off sitting on his fortune and missing out on top four. Put simply, more income in from CL qual would mean more besides going out in increased wages for new contracts and for large fees for better players. So, though I of course HOPE he does as many think he will and backs Emery, Raul and Sven in the market, my realism prevents me thinking that he will. In my opinion, he WILL NOT. He will spend just enough to maintain the profitable to him status quo and no more.

  3. Invisible

    It’s wrong to accept fourth place as good enough when you have been at that very place for everybody knows how long. We want fourth place as a minimum now because we have been out of champions league for just how long. Point is, you don’t realize what you have until you lose it. But the question is ” will the owner and the board real push on to make us champions of England and europe?”

    1. Kenny Rolfe

      Whilst I have the utmost respect for what Arsene Wenger done for Arsenal the competition for the top four places has never been so high as today. Over the last five or six years we,ve seen the emergence of Tottenham, City and even Liverpool whereas Arsenal, Chelsea and United have been their for the last ten to fifteen years.

  4. Durand

    Kronke seeks to maximize profit with minimal investment, no more no less. Remember his quote? He didn’t get into this to win trophies, rember his words?

    Only when fans reached boiling point and it threatened his profits did he finally get involved about Wenger. As for “investing” to get back in champions league, he has; but not the way many expect.

    Kronke got Sven to find young gems, to avoid the mega transfer prices in todays market. Nothing he has done leads me to believe he will spend the money to challenge for titles. He will spend to be competitive to ensure his profits, no more.

    Rams are worth almost twice what Arsenal’s valuation is, according to Forbes. What have they achieved in 15 years? Reached playoffs twice? He invested now, after stadium costs topped 5 billion and both he and taxpayers on hook for several billion. But for how long?

    I follow his actions not words. Arsenal is a business to him, not a passion. He will invest to keep generating profits not trophies. Any titles or trophies are merely a bonus, not a goal.

    1. Kenny Rolfe

      As I’ve said in the past Durand, being on the other side of the pond, you know more about Kronke’s wheeling and dealing than any of us. Keep us posted.

    2. Phil

      Durand-I am optimistic that Kronke will see that by proper investment Arsenal will benefit as a team as much as him.I look at the LA Rams as an example in the NFL.Major investment in the Team and Coaching staff and they look like becoming THE TEAM this season.
      It’s not all about money I know but without investing he will never give us the opportunity to be able to compete at the top level.
      This now is the time we will see where he feels we can go.He is 100% owner of the Club.Major investment WILL improve the team and WILL enhance his investment

      1. Kenny Rolfe

        Don’t know how you are with this Phil but if he doesn’t invest and trust Unai, after the brilliant start he’s made, then he won’t invest in anybody. I think just two or three players and we’ll be challenging for the top.

      2. jon fox

        Phil, I admire your optimism , but as my post above argues, I cannot share it. Kroenke just does not care for glory, only money.

        1. ozziegunner

          I’m sorry for the optimists on here, but hope they are right; however past history with Kroenke Sports Management indicates that Durand and jon will be proven right.

      3. ken1945

        Phil, take on board the fact that he hasn’t got to worry about building the Emirates, filling every single seat available, has new shirt sponsorship, more media money and a waiting list of 100,000 fans.
        He can only go one of two ways…kill the goose that lays the golden egg by not investing OR capitalising on his 100% ownership and make even more money.
        As a successful billionare, surely there can only be one conclusion and that is the latter point?

        OT Your point about not giving up s/t and not going to the games…I’m sure I read that the club is monitoring this situation and will act upon it by cancelling s/tickets that are being abused. It all came about from fans not being able to get tickets BEFORE the protests started.

      4. Durand

        Phil I would cite the Rams as a present example. Look how far they went last year, into the playoffs but lost. He could have invested further in Rams and brought in the couple pieces that were missing to go for the superbowl.

        Rams are still lacking those pieces, have 9-1 record this year, but they will lose again in the playoffs after a brief appearance.

        I’m so confident of this and Kronke seeing it as business not passion, that I’ve already wagered against them; $100. Kronke has an appetite for money and ego, not trophies.

        I’ve witnessed his scroogery here for well over a decade. Watched Rams go from “greatest show on turf” to perennial losers for almost a decade. Quite sad seeing how far and fast they fell, and all during the time of his increasing ownership.

        One of our darkest days was when he got his foot in the door. As for caring for his investments, how often does he physically appear here? How many games? Does he even speak?

        But he’s somehow suddenly going to inject millions to chase a title? He’s waited all these years until he got 97% ownership to invest? Stadium debt behind us, generate piles of money with tv revenue, and just signed new kit deal. Yet still they talk “self-sustaining” tripe.

        Kronke is snake oil salesman have know doubt.

  5. jod

    ken1945- Distilling down all the words, yes the new Spurs stadium will be expensive. No one’s questioning that. It is however not comparable to the Arsenal stadium, most obviously in the retractable pitch. The idea being that you have a surface that can be used to generate extra income from NFL, concerts etc without destroying the surface for football. How well this will work out in terms of extra revenue is impossible to know at this stage. Wages and transfer fees have gone up but we don’t pay the kind of fees and wages you do so it impacts us less. In fact last year was the first time virtually every premier league club made a profit, so TV revenue has gone up faster than expenditure on players. You seem to have ignored the question of interest rates. But this is crucial, its not just how much you borrow its how much interest you have to pay. I wasn’t suggesting we sell Kane. I was simply trying to make the point that compared to construction costs the value of players has increased massively. You could bring down debt by selling players much more easily today than when your stadium was built when player values were much lower, construction costs may be double but player values have quadrupled. Incidentally revenue from the FA Cup is comparative peanuts. Nobody has an automatic right to a champions league place but Poch is doing a pretty good job so far. We still seem to be developing players, Foyth looking like he’ll be the next, so no changes there. We’ve been competing against better funded teams for a few seasons now. Our model works and I can’t see it changing.

    1. ken1945

      jod, the fa cup revenue being comparative peanuts? But would you ignore it?
      What do you think winning the fa cup this year will bring to a premier league club?
      £19,395,503 just from the FA…(source fa) now lets include the TV coverage world wide, the exposure of the club to the world(shirt revenue etc) and the actual takings from the 50% split on gate receipts and one could conservativally make that a £30,000,000 figure.
      Of course it doesn’t compare to CL and premier league, but I certainly wouldn’t think spuds (or any other club would turn that revenue down) if they could win it.

      The low interest rate is favourable at the moment, but the cost of £800,000,000 plus and still rising versus £400,000,000 plus is staggering.
      Don’t forget AFC took all this into its cost, whereas spuds obviously haven’t as the date keeps being pushed back and costs keep rising.
      It’s not the high tech innovations that’s proving a problem, it’s the plumbing and the colour of the seats according to the media and spuds themselves!!

      Of course you don’t pay the wages we do, because you don’t generate the crowd revenue to do this. Once youv’e paid for the stadium then you might compete.

      We have held boxing matches, pop concerts and internationa friendlies and it’s acknowledged that the Emirates pitch is the best in the premier league.

      Your point about selling players for higher prices is nonsense, because you will still have to buy a replacement at the higher price wouldn’t you, probably with a higher wage demand?

      1. jod

        ken1945 – Your maths isn’t your strong point. If interest rates halve then £400k versus £800k work out as the same interest payment. The principal is something else but I was talking about interest payments. Actually you only need to buy another player if you don’t have one coming through the system. Lets say we sell Toby Alderweireld as he seems to be running down his contract. We could buy a replacement or, given we still have Vertonghen, we could rely on Sanchez and Foyth. Since they are both young (22 and 20) they will hopefully develop rapidly as they get more games. That’s why developing players is so important to us. Of course in some areas of the squad that wouldn’t apply, like every club we’re stronger in some positions than others. There’s no reason to spend more just because you’ve more coming in. If you have a model that works as we do then why change it ? Your FA Cup numbers again show maths isn’t your strong point. Its not all or nothing, we will all generate a certain amount of revenue depending on who we draw and how far we go. The extra revenue from actually winning is a fairly small sum.

        1. ken1945

          jod, I wasn’t arguing the interest rates, I was trying to show you the vast amount of money spuds are having to lay out on a still uncompleted stadium, along with all the extra money (Wembley etc) that will have to be found.
          That’s where you have a problem, funding that enormous debt, without even knowing what the final cost will be anyway.
          As far as players go, your scenario is the same one we had to face when we built and moved to the Emirates.
          Our up and coming youngsters and transfer kitty was not enough to win us the title. By the way, developing youngsters is important for everyone!
          We had to sell top players and work under the same restraints that, make no mistake, you will find yourself in very soon. Actually the last transfer window was a sign that you are already in that situation.
          If you think you can continue to challenge (forget Arsenal) City, Utd, Chelsea and Pool with home grown talent replacing top players running their contracts down, then dream on.
          If poch can’t do it with what he’s got now, including your youngsters, how is he going to do it under the financial restraints that will have to be imposed to keep your club afloat?

          If you actually read my post properly, you would have noted that I said what would a premier league team earn by WINNING the fa cup?
          The amount is quite easy to add up to reach the £19,000,000 plus figure because it’s on the official FA site. i added a SUGGESTED further revenue to try and show the worth of this competition.
          Instead of questioning my maths, perhaps you should question your reading abilities? Go back and check what I quite clearly wrote.

          You say your model is working, so show me the trophies, let alone a completely paid for stadium, before comparing the future of the two clubs.

          Thanks Uchman.

  6. Phil

    Jon,Kenny And Ken.
    I know I have no reason at all to be optimistic but I just have this inner belief that Kronke will allow the Club to buyvthecplayers we need to compete.He now owns the Club 100% so his investment now relies solely on him to protect it and raise its value.I accept we are a self-financing Club,as are most teams not only in the UK but globally.So if we do start buying players with just that bit more ability then it must be a player who will immediately improve us and add value to the team.Leys day we buy Dembele from Barca for £100m as opposed to the boy from Lille for £50m ( forgotten his name sorry).Pepe that’s it.Theres s huge difference here in quality.While Dembele hasn’t exactly set the Camp Nou on fire ( please note the correct name) he was amazing in one season at Dortmund with Aubamayang And is 2-3 younger I believe.We can easily afford this player so why not aim higher?Im sure the scouting reports between the two are highlighted and the comparison in cost is justified.What a statement that would be to not only Arsenal fans but every other team in the Premiere League too.Defensively we need better I know but the next 3-4 transfer windows will show us the intent of Kronke.But don’t stick your mortgage on it.
    Ken,your point about s/t holders protesting with their feet is most likely correct.The fact 20,000 all throw a “sickey” at the same time would be too obvious.But it will happen I’m sure.Kronke got off lightly when for two years he allowed Wenger to take all the abuse.He is regarded by most as a low class snake and he will be aware of that.He will also be aware that his management team have appointed a very very good younger manager more in tune with the modern game and with more funding he will allow Emery to improve the squad to the level we need to be at.That is a consistent Top 4 performer and serious PL challenger.To compete with Citeh we need to improve.We can only do this with consistent investment over the next 2-3 seasons.Anything quicker than this is too unrealistic.
    Now is the time for Kronke to show just how serious he is.But as JF said-if he thinks as a 100% owner he is happy to accept the cash that comes to him then he WILL be on for an almighty shock.And he won’t be able to hide behind Wenger this time.

    1. jon fox

      Phil, Clearly all Gooners hope your positive forecast on Kreonke turns out to be true. My point and on which I fundamentally differ, is that you cannot instill football passion in old age when none has existed before and without passion for glory, which I think we all believe about Kroenke, it remains just a golden goose to him. I think he regards Arsenal mainlY as an asset against which to borrow to subsidise hiS Americal franchises and esp the RAMS. In life generally, as well as in football I have always taken notice of actions or lack of them- rather than words or indirectly expressed intentions. Kroenke has behind him ten years of underfunding and I just don’t see this snake changing his poisonous bite on our club. In my pessimistic but I believe realistic opinion we fans are bound to have to go to war with Kreoke one day in the not TOO distant future to heal our club and again claim control from Snakeman. Man City are here to stay and each year that goes by when we don’t, because we cannot OR RATHER WILL NOT, financially compete seriously for the title, the resentment against him will build and build. Just as it did against Wenger, even though THAT resentment was born of incompetence, not lack of passion and ambition for glory. Kroenke is the WAR that sooner or later we fans MUST win or forever lose our place at the very top, ambition wise. All our other mere player problems are by comparison merely local battles. I would love to believe as you do, but just cannot.

      1. Phil

        JF-Its impossible to argue with your totally correct assessment of Kronke.He is a Businessman first and foremost so will know that investment in Arsenal will only increase the value of the Club if we are successful.Im convinced that his son Josh is starting to have a bigger input into the Club and he will wish to ensure he supports the management team as they need.Big game-changing players don’t come cheap but the right players have an immediate impact.Take Marez at Citeh.They bought one player this summer for £60m to give competition to Sterling and Sane and he came into the side and the Club benefit.Sane is a prodigious talent who will only get better but Citeh benefit by increasing the depth of their squad and ensure competition among the players.We are not likely to be in a position to buy just any player at any cost but investment does pay off.
        I also believe that with Josh Kronke being over here for 3 months last season he would have been shocked to the core at the abuse directed not just at Wenger but the whole board.You could feel the toxic atmosphere building up until Kronke had no option other than to sack his manager.Your spot on with your position on the fan base aiming any dissent directly at the Owner.Does he really want to get into a fight he will never ultimately win?You would hope he doesn’t but time will tell on this.Emery has done a fantastic job so far and will do much better as time goes on.The more investment in players that is made the more the investment the owner has will grow.This is not rocket science as we all know.Does the owner understand this? Time will ultimately tell

  7. Break-on-through

    It’s Kroenke’s fault in the first place, by not investing it into the team when we were winning a CL place. Ironically, our biggest spend under Kroenke, comes in the season we had no CL football and monies. So he’s been holding back, and when you consider that he wanted to buy all the shares, it is in his interest for Arsenal to flounder (once they don’t flounder too far). If we had invested it all and we began challenging again, the share prices would go up. He can afford them either way, but you don’t gain that wealth without having a dodgy moral compass.

    People often talk about his lack of effort or desire for his franchise. I wonder how often was he running other clubs without yet owning all of the shares. Or when he moved that American football club, uprooted them and moved city. They would need to be doing really terrible for him to get away with that – He is the man in charge? This is pure speculation, and you can probably tell that I do not trust the man in the slightest.

  8. TH14-TW14

    “That’s the type of gamble you make when you are top of the table. It’s the wrong time in our history to be trying to find gems. Too many times finding value is prioritised over ‘can the individual improve the standards?’”

    This excerpt summarizes all I have been saying about this “Diamond Eye” nonsense many parrot here. And then you killed it in very precise form like this… “history shows you finish where you spend. So, if we want to finish higher, we need to spend bigger”

    Diamond eye isn’t going to do jack. Before him Arsenal found gems, but you need a concentration of top players to win the EPL. So was it in 1992 and so is it now.

  9. ozziegunner

    Sven Mislantat was nicknamed “Diamond Eye” at Dortmund prior to even arriving at Arsenal. What evidence can you provide to devalue his ability and proven record to indentify future champion players?

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