Recently, I saw a comment from Jamie Carragher stating that Kevin De Bruyne is better than Cantona, Zola, and Bergkamp. This of course has led to articles all over the place declaring KDB the greatest player to have graced the Premier League and other such nonsense.
I usually enjoy Carra’s banter with Neville and I think the pair of them have reinvented Sky Sports. However, this comment that De Bruyne is better than the aforementioned legends is frankly ridiculous. Firstly, you can’t accurately compare different eras due to style of play, etc., but more importantly those players don’t even play in the same position as De Bruyne!
Were Carragher to have stated that De Bruyne is better than Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Yaya, Özil we could have a discussion, and I still wouldn’t necessarily agree but in truth I actually don’t think he is. For example, Özil’s vision is unsurpassed by anyone, Yaya’s size and physicality made him unplayable, Scholes was a more complete midfielder. Kevin De Bruyne isn’t better than any one of them at their own personal special qualities but does perhaps possess more of all of their qualities than any other. Whether that makes him the best is a matter of personal opinion and not one that can really ever be answered.
De Bruyne doesn’t even seem to really be much of a personality either. Patrick Vieira ran the Invincibles Arsenal midfield, Roy Keane was the engine room and soul of Man Utd during Fergie’s golden era, Frank Lampard scored more goals than Thierry Henry and did it from midfield, Steven Gerrard epitomised his club perhaps more than any other player has in the league’s history. De Bruyne just doesn’t have this same aura of legendary status about him because it takes more than just talent.
Of the players Carra wrongly compared KDB to, I obviously have a fondness for Bergkamp. His size, technique, and nastiness made him a nightmare for defenders. Zola was intensely likeable, but if I am to be truthful I don’t think anyone can argue against Cantona having the greatest effect on the league of the three of them. No player in EPL history has ever had more time on the ball, except for maybe Berbatov. These players have left more of a mark on the league than De Bruyne has.
I think KDB is an incredibly gifted footballer and the best playmaker of his generation, and rightly so is in the discussion for the greatest midfielders to have ever played in the Premier League but I don’t think he can ever truly be the greatest.
Were I to build an all-time EPL XI he wouldn’t make my team because Man City have just kept on rolling without him. To really be considered amongst the best surely that player should leave a hole in the team that when unavailable that cannot be filled.
COYG
Ben Dungate
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Based on De Bruyne’s major trophy collection, number of assists and number of EPL appearances, I’ll have to agree with Carragher
have to agree with carragher but i think david silva is the best
So being the primary playmaker in a dominant team bankrolled by Saudi money that is impervious to the same FFP rules that seems to hit Everton each week makes him better than Fabregas who was captain of Arsenal as a 21 year old?
Fabregas has about the same number of assists as De Bruyne but was playing in a less successful team and didn’t have Haaland to start pad for him. The success of the team cannot be aligned to the success of the player. Unless of course you also want to argue that Phil Neville was better than Ashley Cole, because that is what you are implying by suggesting the team’s success directly correlates with a player’s ability.
Fabregas still needed 350 games to produce 118 assists
Yes, because he wasn’t playing in a team blessed by strikers such as Sergio Aguero and Erling Haaland. I am not trying to demolish KDB’s abilities, I am simply suggesting we all keep our heads and not fall to our knees and praise him.
I have readily stated I consider him to be the greatest playmaker of his generation, but just his generation. His accomplishments cannot and should not be measured by that of his team but by his impact upon it. And quite frankly Cesc was more important to Arsenal, Gerrard was more important to Liverpool, Lampard was more important to Chelsea.
KDB is a fantastic footballer, but just one more in a line of brilliantly gifted players to have graced the Premier League. He is not better than any of the players I or others have mentioned but rightly sits alongside them as one of the most technically astute players to have performed in front of the millions of fans that watch this league every week.
@Ben
Sometimes one has got to curb their biased view. It feels like you are playing the same old “My team until I die” kind of thing.
KDB played 111 games less than our Cesc and he only has 12 less assists. And in 111 less game he scored more goals.
And don’t forget that Fabregas himself went to Barcelona and was surrounded by that 2010 monster team himself and did not pull down any trees in such a team.
And I do rate Cesc so highly as he was so dominant from the moment he became a starter for us at 17 years of age.
I am not being biased I was merely using Cesc as an example of not assessing a player’s quality by the accomplishments of the team.
Oh, and it’s ‘fewer’ assists, not ‘less’.
Who’s “The Best” is always going to be up for debate depending on how you look at it, and for me KDB is certainly worthy of consideration. An amazing player and very much in the same class as the legends mentioned above.
Agreed, but is he better? I don’t think so.
When I think of CAMs I struggle to think of a better one that’s played in the Premier League.
He’s a magnificent player in a league that has seen many of them.
I think he is – he’s got some similarities to Gerrard (who was a little overrated but nonetheless very, very good imo) but his attacking output is unmatched. Some of those players mentioned may have more “talent”, but none were as consistently brilliant as debruyne.
The only player I’d compare him to is the fabregas at arsenal – brilliant player who could do things no-one expected (far better “vision” than ozil imo because ozil rarely played passes I couldn’t see while watching the game, whereas fabregas often surprised me) and also had a very high output in terms of goals and assists. He’d just started taking off in the two seasons before he left arsenal – a big “what if?” for me.
Taking off my Blinkered Arsenal tinted glasses, in my opinion I can’t argue too much about KDB being labelled as the best attacking Midfielder so far in the EPL.
When it comes to Pure natural talent, technical ability, athleticism, trophies, longevity, leadership skills, standing up and being counted etc then I can’t argue with KDB being labelled as the best attacking Midfielder in EPL history so far.
But it’s all subjective. Different player styles appeal to different personalities. It’s like beauty, it’s all subjective, we interpret beauty subjectively.
It’s a bit like the never ending “Who is better?Messi or C.Ronaldo” debate.
That’s an easy one.
Messi – more natural talent, weaker athlete
Ronaldo – marginally less talent, better athlete
Ronaldo has achieved more with less and made the most of the talent he was blessed with.
First of all you are not comparing like with like in that KDB is a box to box midfielder who when compared to Toure, Gerrard and Lampard wins hands down imo..Fabrecas and Bergkamp were highly creative but never covered the ground as quickly as KDB and Ozil was basically a luxury player.In a best eleven EPL side KDB would be a shoe in as would our TH.In fact an article on the best eleven ever in the EPL would be interesting and would probably produce a huge response.
Fabregas played cm in a 442 system for arsenal, so he could definitely play ostensibly as a box to box player, and could cover a lot of ground. They played quite differently, but a similar enough role to enable comparison. Bergkamp was a centre forward who dropped a bit deeper, but never a cm really – quite different.
KDB has also played a lot of games further forwards – he most strongly resembles Gerrard in style, imo, who also played a variety of roles, even if he’s most associated with cm
I’m sorry, Grandad. I appreciate your input but De Bruyne is not a box-to-box midfielder. He is a creative attacking midfielder.
I beg to differ Ben.Until the departure of David Silva KDB fulfilled the role of a B to B operator.The fact that he also has immense creative/attacking skills is a reflection of just how talented and rounded a player he is.He is truly a generational talent and I am sure the vast majority of sensible football fans would acknowledge this fact.
We certainly aren’t going to disagree on his ability, I fully acknowledge his talent. I am simply contesting the status to which everyone has raised him particularly since Carra’s statement.
I don’t agree that he’s a b2b midfielder but nonetheless he is the best playmaker of his generation, which I mentioned in the article. I just don’t think he’s significantly better than the other players I mentioned. For example, both Yaya and Cesc had 20 goal seasons in the league, 15 is the most KDB has managed and has only reached double figures twice.
And as for his impact on the team or rather the effect in his absence. City simply haven’t missed him that much! Look at the hole left by Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Cesc when those players left their respective teams and they have never been replaced! By contrast Foden and Bernardo Silva just filled in for KDB while he was out and the juggernaut kept on going.
And I know I am being a bit petty but the picture for this Article should have been Bergkamp and Fabregas instead of Ozil.
🙂
This is not on Pat. I didn’t reference Cesc in the article when I should have.
There is NO comparison. Bergkamp was the best for Arsenal, when he played and KDB is at present the best for City. The last sentence in the article is very strange because for one, it could be argued, City missed KDB against Arsenal at the Emirates. And two, the managers job is to sort it out, so that a team doesn’t miss a player too much when they are out. City do mis KDB, when he isnt there.
But KDBs figures in the table above, make him the best for assists, out of that lot. By quite some distance. But I loved Bergkamp too bits because he was outrageous.
But he’s played in a dominant side with the likes of Aguero and Haaland… You don’t think Fabregas or Özil could’ve achieved similar playing in the same side KDB has?
I’m not thinking, I’m stating what is in front of us. The rest is speculation. Maybe, one of the reasons City have been so dominant, is KDB. Being creative has nothing to do with dominant teams but individuals. His trophy cabinet, says it all.
It is clear that “best ever” discussions are of interest to most football folks and I am no exception. But as a realist, it can only ever be a personal and entirely subjective call, as there is no way to prove anything.
So it fine to give our various opinions, but in reality it CHANGES NOTHING.
I’ve read the various posts so far with some interest, though in reality I am far more interested all the time about the here and now and the foreseeable future, than I can ever be about the past.
But each to his or her own of course!
Well don’t join in then Jon you miserable git. This site is MADE for discussion and opinion so why would we have a post like this? Some less miserable readers actually enjoy discussing each others opinions.
To anyone reading my above post, do you HONESTLY think I was out of order in any way, as I GAVE MY OWN OPINION ON JA, A FAN OPINION DEBATE SITE?
The Admin on this site seems so want to banish certain Gooner opinions on his own fan site.
ODD, DONT YOU THINK?
why is there a picture of Ozil there…no even close
KDB for me is not only the the best number 10 I’ve seen in the last decade but the best player in the prem full stop over the same period.
Exceptional one of a kind generational talent ,but being bias Bergkamp who IMO is top 3 ever in the prem along side Henry and Drogba edges him out only because that decade he played in for me was the best I’ve witnessed talent wise ,be it keepers ,defenders or forwards 1998-2008 was the pinnacle of the Prem .
For me the top 3 number 10s
1- bergkamp
2-KDB
3-scholes (not a traditional 10 )but is passing range puts him there for me .
KDB will go down as one of the prems and world’s best when he retires .
PTO
I get the title was midfielders but I judged my picks on players in KDB style ,maybe playmakers rather than 10s (who knows these days all the same to me )
Good read Ben 👍
Thanks, Dan. I don’t mind Carra having his say, and it’s certainly got everyone’s thumbs busy, I actually took an issue with him measuring KDB against players who didn’t play in the same position, so aren’t a fair assessment.
Certainly stat wise KDB is as good as any and better than most, but look at who he has played with! It’s hardly fair.
I would certainly rank KdB as one of the best attacking midfielders in the Premier League era, but not ahead of Bergkamp who in my view was the best ever Arsenal player. Elegant, arrogant, powerful and the scorer of arguably the three best goals scored in football. Two in the EPL and one for Holland vs Argentina so much so the Dutch have produced an €8 banknote showing Bergkamp scoring that goal.
👍
Who can forget his hattrick against Everton, the only player to win goal of the month one, two, and three, and of course his goal against Newcastle where some people dared to suggest it was a fluke
Maybe not but certainly keeping company with the big boys of Bergkamp and others.
I too have KDB right behind the Arsenal legend, and if his legs hold could be the telling factor for the champions lifting the big jug again
KDB all day.. Fab a close second…
I don’t think KDB is on the great Dennis tier but certainly he is on same tier with the likes of Cesc and Lampard.
It’s difficult to compare different generations fairly because the game has changed a lot over the years. I reckon it is defensively stronger the further you go back. Refereeing is like night and day
why is there a picture of Ozil there…not even close
For me, KDB is NEVER better than Fabregas and should not be placed above the Spaniard in any Midfield discussion.😕
At the age of 20 in 2007/2008 season, Fabregas was the Pillar of Arsenal’s title challenge and held his own against Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Carrick , Gattusso and Pirlo that season.
Fabregas can pass Long and Short Range and could play anywhere in a Midfield.
Ability Wise, he is FAR BETTER than De Bryune.🙂
De Bruyne is hell of a playmaker. Bergkamp was a centre forward. Ozil is not even a mention in this debate even Carzola/Rosisky were better. All played during different times. The numbers will show at the end of DeBruyne’s career and then we shall make a more comprehensive conclusion. For now let’s just say he is the best midfielder currently playing.
Bergkamp was a midfielder when ever I watched him.
For me, Bergkamp was simply the best player I’ve ever seen in the Premiership. His skill and creativity were unmatched, pulling off moves that no one else would even dare to try on a consistent basis.