Arsenal fans need to find their souls again and get behind the team

Fans Need to Look at Themselves, Too by AI

In charting the journey of a football club, fans are always omitted. Or where they are included in the story, it’s always about the rise and never about the downfall. And yet, in the reality of it, fans are always a part of the story, whether good or bad.

Take a look at how we treat some Arsenal players who we have deemed not good enough. If any one of us were to be subjected to the same public pile-on at our personal workplaces, everyone would cry foul play. Yet, for some reason, we think footballers don’t have the same feelings.

One of Jurgen Klopp’s first requests when he first came to Liverpool Football Club was to implore the fans to get behind the team and what they were trying to do. In the first underwhelming season, it was easy to ask what exactly was there to get behind. Klopp did his best to make the team likeable, too: they worked hard and tried to attack fast according to his philosophy, but there were plenty of bad moments in that first season as well. And do you know what the fans did? They held hands and stood behind their team all the same. The current incredible bond between Liverpool and the fans was not achieved by success alone. It was achieved through pain and sweat, and singing You Will Never Walk Alone with a teary face after losing the Europa League final to Sevilla. It was a bond forged by fire and flames before the flowers came.

That’s what supporting a team is like. That strong sense of identity, of possession. It’s a little bit like family. You didn’t chose it nor did they specifically chose you but you found yourself together and stuck with one another. That’s what supporting a club is like. It’s not all about who’s winning the latest trophies. It’s about family. It’s about identity. It’s about the soul of the game.

Unfortunately, too many Arsenal fans have lost the soul for the game. They have become frantic, abusive and negative. All sense of perspective is gone; loyalty is a strange word. This was seen in the treatment of Arsene Wenger, the man who made the modern Arsenal. He might not have made Arsenal the most successful club in the world but given what he worked with, he did a fantastic job of putting Arsenal on the global map. That was who we abused and scorned for weeks on end, as though another Arsene Wenger was easy to come by if only he would just leave.

Look at how we treated Granit Xhaka. We gave him so much abuse that he shoved some of it right back in our faces. And how did we respond? How Dare He?

xhaka

We complain a lot about how referees behave like gods of the game and are accountable to no one but what’s the difference? Who are fans accountable to? Or do we suppose that fans do not play a significant role in football? Look at the home records of teams across Europe this last season and see if fans are impactful or not.

Whether we like it or not, our collective behavior affects things. The cesspool that was AFTV negatively affected our players and even the perception of them in the transfer market. We don’t even celebrate our successes well enough. We are on to the next thing, immediately grumbling. Yes, we paid to be entertained but that does not give us any right to go overboard.

This summer, the Arsenal hierarchy are shelling out money to try and get the quality of the team back to where it belongs. The team is lead by one of our own, a likeable and professional man who was thrown in the deep end of the season and has not been given much favour in his coaching career. Mikel Arteta’s first request was the same as Jurgen Klopp: that we the fans rally around our own team, that we give them the strength of our support. This season is the time to support.

Arteta will finally have some material to work with. Our job is to try and help him to succeed. Our job is to sing and clap and provide momentum for this young team led by one of the youngest coaches in Europe. If Arteta is successful, it will be a story to tell. It will be a fairytale featuring boys from the academy, the youngest coach in the league and the return of the Arsenal DNA. If he doesn’t, the future is brighter with a young team.

All of the good players in the team think Arteta is a great coach and that something special might happen with him. But nothing will happen without our support. So, for once, this new season, let’s try to roll back the years and go all the way with the team.

Agboola Israel

Come on, you gunners. It’s time to be a fan!

Tags Arsenal fans Arteta supporters

117 Comments

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  1. TA14 says:

    You got this the wrong way round, look at how the club has treated the fans before you take a pop at our loyalty. They put the most expensive season tickets in the world on our shoulders long before other clubs started increasing their admission prices, whilst bringing in mediocrity like Xhaka, Mustafi, Santos, Sanogo, Gervinho etc etc etc. Remember the reason we moved to the Emirates? To compete with the best in Europe. Well we haven’t done that since 2006.

      1. Dan kit says:

        Good post 👍 about the loyalty part
        Most fans have continued to support the team when we have gone through the change of stadiums and the promises that was made ,fans have every right to up in arms with this club ATM .
        We have been patient long enough ,to see our club finish 8th 2 years in a row and to keep the manager who oversaw it be supported again when he his quite clearly is out of his depth shows how far this club as fallen .
        Loyalty works both ways .

        1. JanV says:

          Ok, so we are up in arms with the club. What do we expect that will do? I know as fans, not each individual fan, we have managed to bring a lot of negativity to the club but normally that doesn’t translate into better performances.

          In extreme cases, this can get a manager sacked but often this is preceded by the team becoming insecure on the pitch as a result of the atmosphere. Which in turn leads to a downward spiral rather than an upward spiral.

          In our case getting our manager sacked is as likely to result in a worse outcome than a better outcome. Anyone who thinks we can attract Europe’s best managers is fooling himself. The next manager will also be an experiment.

          I am all for claiming the right to be up in arms but I am also one for pragmatism so if the “revolt” has no aim and no strategy it will just lead to more negativity.

          If the aim is to get Kroenke out ask yourself what type of “up in arms” will lead to that and if it is reasonable to succeed.

          In my experience, we are great at bringing negativity but not so great at organizing our negativity into the results we want.

          So, for now, I am supporting the team, the manager, and Edu despite a poor transfer window thus far. When I stop believing in a season that will have us end up higher than 8th I will likely just be quiet and observe rather than moan from the first disappointing result we have.

          I expect the top 6 and based on the second half of last season that should be possible, but is far from certain.

          1. Dan kit says:

            That’s great Janv ,good for you 👍

            But I’ll be me thxs and you are happy being you.

  2. GunneRay says:

    You have to remember there are reasons for such negativity. When The Emirates was constructed we were told that it was being built so that Arsenal FC could compete with the best in the world. And, that we would finally be able to compete financially too. The stadium was built but the quality of the team suffered as our best players were sold and the scouting resorted to unknowns. The brand of the football faded and quality faded too! The lies began and the false hopes too. Arsenal became a team that nobody feared. At home we were weak and by 2021 we are nothing more than a mid table team.

    I have always supported Arsenal since I was 6 years old but never have I seen my beloved club in such disarray!

    When club start supporting its fans more, maybe then we will see more fans supporting with more embrace. But as yet, the ticket prices remain high and the brand of football is yet to improve as the owners still remain distant from the supporters.

    Give the fans something to support. It works both ways!!

  3. Crowther says:

    u have reminded of klopp’s first season in epl where liverpool could lead matches bt by the end of the ninety minutes, ALL WOULD END IN TEARS. WITHOUT THE FANS, NOTHING WILL BE ACHIEVED

  4. gunnerforlife says:

    Supporting Arsenal through thick and thin is the duty of every loyal fan. But at times, when fans see the very ethos, values and system of play for which Arsenal is famaous, has created a brand name and is in the very dna of AFC, if these principles are abandoned and sacrificed for negative style , it gets a little frustrating. For example when Arsenal continues to play negative football, when certain players are exempted from being left out inspite of poor performances, unfair treatment meted out to certain players inspite of their good performances, some players not even given a chance to show their true potential, adopting defensive techniques even when winning is a must, these factors make supporters to want changes in plans and techniques employed by the manager. At the end of the day every genuine supporter wants the club to succeed and will back the club whatever the case may be, but there should be clear evidence from the manager that the club is treading on the right path, irrespective of success or failure. The path and the direction shown is very important, the ethos, principles and the values of positive football for which the club has stood over decades are very important and cannot be compromised. At the end of the day, every genuine fan wants the club to succeed and return to where it truly belongs.

    1. Dan kit says:

      Absolutely great post .👍👍

      1. Highbury Hero says:

        I agree.

    2. Grandad says:

      Very well said GFL.

    3. Loose Cannon says:

      Mikel is a man of deeds, not words, trust him mate! He has thrown out the rubbish accumulated over the years He deeds are in action, not hollow words. The only mistake till date is the Willian signing (even the worse Willian had 1 goal and 5 assists over Ozil’s 1 goal and 2 assists), and everyone is on his back for it, forgetting how the “greatest manager” hired tons of rubbish evey season draining our financial resources and league standings till he was booted out. Emery proved it that with a Villareal team of nobodies he beat us fair and square and won the EL, when our super heroes failed him, the club and the fans just sometime before.Mikel is going in for fresh young blood, rather than the over the hill past by date useless junkies who won us nothing worth their value. Long term contracts for the performers, hiring huge potentials, freezing out attitude based players, are the signs and intentions of the manager who has a very clear vission and is on a mission to revive our past glory. For those who harp on our slow negetive football, have to agree with you, but have you all thought if we have the players to do a quick counter or a sliky tikki-takka – with Leno, Holding, Xhaka, Pepe, Laca can you expect fireworks? That is the reason why Mikel is on the lookout for young speedy players. He knows the weakness and is sincerly trying to fix the issues.

    4. Ozziegunner says:

      Excellent post gunner4life, the sentiments in I couldn’t express better. I would add that my biggest beef would be the attitude of too many of Arsenal’s highly paid players over recent years. I am sure many of us, who have worked hard and professionally during our working lives are dismayed at the apparent lack of personal professional pride and pride in playing for the Club and earning the wages they are paid displayed by these highly paid pampered prima donnas in their half hearted performances.
      As for Agboola’s references again to AFTV, Arsenal FC is not the Club with the status and history we believe, if a fan channel can have such a detrimental impact. The problem with many Arsenal supporters, even if they watch AFTV, do not survey other fan channels for other clubs, which are similar in their outlook. AFTV are not the issue, but symptomatic of some fans views and an outlet for their frustrations.
      The Arsenal through good times and not so good for 59 years.

  5. Highbury Hero says:

    I agree with other posters. You don’t have to be positive for the damn sake of being positive. There has to be a reason to be positive. All Arsenal has done is to give fans reason after reason to be negative.

    I don’t agree with the abuse of players, managers and owners (even though I have leaned that way with our current manager myself) and in that we have to do better.

    This myth that Klopp started bad at Liverpool has to stop. He finished 8th in his first half season but he was in the top four for the remainder of his tenure and seriously competing for European and domestic trophies. Just because he won the league recently doesn’t mean his team wasn’t competing before that.

    Klopp didn’t finish 8th two times in a row.

  6. guy says:

    Super article, Agboola, and many of us here will echo every word you have written, in principle at least. Although we as individuals are all capable of occasional passionate rants, (usually against players we believe are not trying), we at least aspire to encourage, support and help our team to develop.
    However, there is a minority, many of whom may criticise your piece, who whilst calling themselves “supporters” are almost exclusively critical and negative in their comments. The club is hopeless, the players (including new players who have not yet kicked a ball) are useless and the manager, his team and the board must go. If you analyse that, there is then nothing left of our club. They resemble football anarchists in that they constantly want things pulled down before they have had a chance to succeed, and see it as their right and duty to criticise. They do not understand that by undermining morale and the fan base constantly they are creating a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure.

    They have long forgotten the dictionary definition of a “supporter” as ” a person who approves of and encourages “

    1. ken1945 says:

      GUY, have to say what a brilliant post and I concur 100%….the funny thing is, I also agree with the “negative” posts above as well!!!!

      This is an excellent article for debate and I congratulate the author.

      Supporting your club isn’t just about moaning all the time, nor is it about wearing rose tinted glasses.
      I noted the red herring about season ticket prices once again…. not true today of course… but I wonder how many supporters have decided to go and watch us play Chelsea (women and mens team) on Sunday 1/8?

      I bought three tickets for £60 to watch these two matches, because I SUPPORT the club.

      Now I know not everybody within the JA family can travel to games, but it would be interesting to know who, amongst the fans who regularly diss the players, manager, club, owner have also shown their “support”?

      The only time I bring up my age, is to try and show younger fans how going through barren decades is the norm with ANY club and football is forever moving in circles.

      As for going on about what was promised by building the Emirates, once again we see fans completely forgetting three major factors:

      1. Kronkie buying club.
      2. The emergence of Abramovitch and the oil money whilst construction was taking place.
      3. FIFA corruption and inability to police their own fair play rules.

      On the AFTV dig, from what I have watched, which is very little, this abusive way of “supporting” the club, seems alien to me, but everyone has the right to do what they think is acceptable.

      A great article and one I hope gets numerous feedback, if only to see how our own fans are ripping the club apart..

      1. jon fox says:

        A wise and mature post KEN.
        Loyalty is IMO a very much misunderstood concept and one in which, very broadly speaking, there is a major generation divide.

        We oldies, who have as you rightly say gone through many cycles of change, are more prepared to be loyal(as we oldies see it) than are those younger fans, many from far flung places and some, even perhaps most, who have never attended our games and have a modern concept of loyalty (as they see it, often started by following a particular player – KANU being a prime example for Nigerians).

        Nothing wrong in that but it creates a different kind of “loyalty” where players are revered above the club and its historical values and its whole history.

        We oldies grew up in a VERY different football world though we shared the player adulation that todays kids have, though to a lesser degree, IMO

        But we always understood, I sincerely believe , that the club itself was before any player. The cult of the individual player was far less back then, than nowadays.

        That is a huge divide now, on how the generations react to how they see loyalty. Just my take of course and would welcome your further thoughts on LOYALTY, specifically.

        I also much liked the article though I would have liked to see more in depth discussion on WHAT loyalty really means. That is why I say it is a much misunderstood word.

        In fact Ken, the whole reason why I am such a word pedant is that so many words no longer have just one widely understood meaning but mean different things to different generations; for example “hate”.
        You and I havehad many beefs on precisely my contention that the club is way above any individual and those players who I see as harming our club, I naturally turn against.

        Players come and go and only the club remains, And we “been through the mill”, fans.

      2. Jay says:

        I love your perception of the article. Supporter means supporting through thick and thin. To support means to lend a helping hand. This is the time our players and coaches need this support, not moral killing rants. Yes we aren’t where we want the club to be, but continuous negativity and abuses will not change anything, rather we’ll keep going round in circles. Frustrate the coach and players to fail, the coach is sacked, we bring in another coach and cycle begins again.
        I am fully behind my Arsenal this season, whatever happens

      3. RP says:

        I’ve had a season ticket for 30+ years, so what’s your point? You don’t have to go to pre-season friendlies to prove your loyalty you know. The die hard Gooners are those that will turn up at places like Preston North End on a midweek for a FA cup third-round tie when it’s pissing down with rain and freezing cold. Not those that sit in the comfort of the Emirates on a warm summers day.

        1. ken1945 says:

          Agree RP, the question wasn’t aimed at anyone who supports their club – it was aimed at those who tell everyone what is wrong with the club, how to run the club but never support the club in any way, rather the opposite…. that’s my point.

        2. ken1945 says:

          And RP, the fact that one can buy a ticket for £20 and watch two matches, shows the fact that fans who haven’t got s/t can watch the players live for once.

      4. Ozziegunner says:

        Ken, I do watch AFTV and there are various contributors with differing points of few. Many of the contributors are long term Arsenal supporters, who invest a lot personally and financially in following the Club. Many display considerable knowledge in both the Arsenal and football in general. The extremists are in the minority in my view and criticism of AFTV by some on JA is unfair. People have a choice whether they watch it or not; however it appears that many commentators are criticising without watching.

        1. ken1945 says:

          OG, as I have said, everyone to their own and AFTV does seem to have a large following.
          I don’t criticise, but just say it’s not for me.
          The same with Talksport, simply because of Adrian Durham who, in my opinion, is the biggest@ss I’ve ever had the misfortune to listen to.
          Good article though isn’t it – a range of opinions and, apart from the odd one or two, discussed in a friendly manner.

          1. Ozziegunner says:

            Totally agree on Adrian Durham, and Durham is a lovely city to visit!
            Also, I appreciate your, or anyone else’s right to watch/listen to anyone they like. My concern is the anti AFTV agenda of some writers, particularly those that don’t watch; AFTV and fans/supporters are not the problem behind Arsenal FC finishing eighth.

    2. jon fox says:

      Guy Oh well said! Such a difference nowadays in what some see as loyalty, compared to others. And I much agree there is a huge differnence betwen being just a fan and on the other hand a SUPPORTER and Of THE CLUB, and more than ANY one player no matter whom.

      Please read my reply to Ken just below, as I’d welcome your PRECISE interpretation of “loyalty” also.

      1. guy says:

        Ouch that’s a tough one, and for that reason I don’t use “loyalty” often as it means different things to different people.
        I think it comes from old French, where interestingly it meant a “legal” obligation rather than a concept as is now.
        I guess I’d say firm and unchanging in your friendship or support. I would also think if I used it unquestioning or non-judgemental but I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I couldn’t personally say I was loyal to my employer if I seriously disagreed with their ethics or morals even if I never did anything about it, for example. But that’s just me – I think others would say I was still loyal.
        Then how do you differentiate Arsenal from the Kroenke’s? Can I be loyal to the club if I disagree with the ethics of its owner?
        Thanks for giving me such a tricky one Foxy!

  7. gotanidea says:

    The ones who despise Arteta should remember that he’ll be sacked if Arsenal aren’t in top six by the end of November, so they’d better stop making any unconstructive comments

    If we make a good progress in November, we could end up in top four at the end of this season. Otherwise some high profile managers like Ten Hag will be cheaper at that time, to be hijacked from their current clubs

    1. ken1945 says:

      GAI, where on earth have you got the information from that MA will be sacked?
      Just another wild claim that doesn’t help anyone, or can you ACTUALLY back this up?

      1. gotanidea says:

        It’s just my prediction

        1. ken1945 says:

          Well, it sounds like a statement and one that has no sense.
          Why would kronkie invest in over, it seems, £100,000,000 on players that MA has selected, to then sack him just a few months later if he’s not in the top 6?!?!

          So if he’s 7th on GD, he’s a gonner?

          1. gotanidea says:

            Lampard was given 200+ M for new players in summer 2020, then sacked in January 2021

            I bet Arteta will also be sacked if he can’t bring Arsenal into top six by the end of November or December, because he’ll spend two years as a manager at that time and there are too many negative comments about him on the net

          2. ken1945 says:

            And kronkie is influenced by the NET?
            GAI…. if we are SUPPORTING MA, why are we talking about betting he gets the sack?
            We shouldn’t be entertaining the idea that he will fail, rather we should be getting behind him and the players.
            This is a new season, new players and I, for one, look forward to seeing MA being in charge for many years.

          3. gotanidea says:

            @ken1945 : A football club business is highly affected by the fans’ support. The fans, especially the young ones, are influenced by the pundits’ and other people’s comments about their club, so the club owner must be listening to the fans’ opinions to some extent

            I’m just reminding Arteta’s detractors about the sacking possibility, to calm them down. We need both Arteta-In and Arteta-Out brigades to support the team, otherwise they could get demotivated before the season even starts

    2. guy says:

      Wrong place to post that comment GAI – this is precisely what we are NOT talking about here.

      1. gotanidea says:

        This thread is perfect to remind Arteta’s detractors about the sacking possibility, to calm them down. I’ve been reading many negative comments about Arsenal on JA in the last two months and they have to stop

        We need both Arteta-In and Arteta-Out brigades to support the team, otherwise they could get demotivated before the season even starts

        1. VasC says:

          I’m very much against MA’s decisions on a few things. But, I never raised my voice to sack him. Instead, I always said that he must be retained until the end of his current contract, while keeping him on a tight leash when it comes to player management decisions. If he proves himself to be worthy of an extension, reward him. Else, start to find a replacement when his time is up.

  8. Sean Williams says:

    The road to dishonesty is the road to mediocrity. So this is where we have got to…..to kid ourselves. Apples are not Lemons and if you cannot distinguish the difference then ?????? We all support Arsenal but if we see poor football would you control our minds to not comment that it is poor? Last season I saw the poorest football I have seen at Arsenal. I support them, I have done for 63 years (I am way older than that) and have done for a long lifetime. I have invested so much emotion, but I will never kid myself. May we at last start to play the football the fans love.

    1. jon fox says:

      SEAN as a fellow oldie who started attending aged 8 in 1958, I have to challenge your “worst in 63″(same as mine) years. Billy Wright 62- 66; Bertie Mee post 1972 til he was sacked. Don Howe, Terry Neill, even the last Graham years!
      A rather selective memory you seem to have SEAN!

      1. Sean Williams says:

        John Fox
        The worst I have seen. Maybe not the worst you have seen. Purely opinion and not empirical. We can argue about which was the worst team. But…..watching us last season shocked me, not just for the final points total, but for the poverty struck football we played. It was hopeless. We have had lesser teams man for man, but last season was the worst football I have seen us play. I had a season ticket, upper tier, west stand, for most of those years you mention. What we can agree on then, this is the poorest Premier League team we have had.

        1. jon fox says:

          SEAN I firmly believe you have your own agenda to remove MA and that is why you write about now being our worst team By any rational view that is nonsense of course.
          I GET THAT YOU WERE DISAPPOINTED BY OUR SECOND 8TH POSITION; SO WAS I. We fnished 8TH but since Christmaswere in top two or three.

          Back in the early seveties under MEE WE FINISHED 17TH . THAT WAS FAR WORSE THAN NOW.

          Sorry to say, I simply don’t believe what you say you think, IF you were actually around and watching during those many lesser years I listed above. BOTH possibilities cannot be true.
          YOU ARE SIMPLY EXAGGERATING BUT I AM BEING FACTUAL SEAN

          1. Sean Williams says:

            Jon Fox
            You are in your own fantasy world. You spend most of the time telling most people how wrong they are, often rudely. You are telling me what I think. Methinks you have a fictional drama in your head. I have no problem knowing what I think. Get it all off your chest Jon, try to do it without being over the top. Over time I have seen you be really insulting to too many JA posters. You are manic not factual.

          2. jon fox says:

            Sean we inhabit very different fan planets and so I will no longer bother debatingwith you as it is pontless We come from very different perspectives and never the twain shall meet. But I repeat( as my final words) I simply do not believe you!

          3. Sean Williams says:

            John Fox
            It will be a pleasure not to debate with you. You alway spend any occasion to tell us you talk the truth. You have no more access to the truth than any other person on JA. It’s all opinion.

    2. guy says:

      Is that a quote, Sean? I’ve also read that “Being realistic is the most commonly traveled road to mediocrity” which I much prefer as a football fan and dreamer.
      Nobody is saying we shouldn’t complain. But pure negativity without a hint of optimism or hope for the future helps nobody. You will read posts here that read like we are adrift at the bottom of League 2.
      But in the years from 1965 when I started watching until 1992 we finished outside the hallowed Top 6 twelve times, and twice since the Prem started. Did we go out of business? Did the world stop turning? No, we went full cycle and came back. And I promise you, some of the football I remember was really dire.
      So whilst I understand dissatisfaction, I have no patience with the doomsday scenario painted by a minority. Whilst we are not as good as some would have us believe, we are in nowhere near as bad a situation as we are painted by others.

      1. jon fox says:

        guy, Hurray for real perspective and a realistic take on what being a supporter, (as against just a fan, which is not the same thing) really entails!

        I am a fan of dogs but I am also a supporter of them as I give my time and efforts and money towards their welfare.

        WE HAVE COUNTLESS MILLIONS OF FANS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD BUT FAR FEWER REAL SUPPORTERS!

  9. Reggie says:

    OK, lets all keep quiet and cheering while the club we love gets systematically dismantled and continually run down, run badly, managed badly and getting to a point where a return to the top 4 because of is a distant dream. So lets all keep our mouths shut and wallets wide open and keep the demise going. NOT!

    1. Dan kit says:

      Exactly mate
      Seems some fans are happy to see our club go down the toilet even more .
      The fans that keep quite and support this mess do more damage to the club than the proper fans that can see what’s in front of their eyes .

      1. guy says:

        Dan Kit – 8th is believe it or not, not down the toilet. Is every team below us hopeless?
        I get annoyed with the arrogance shown by Arsenal supporters with comments such as “how dare Villa bid for our player”. Too many fans show a total lack of respect for other clubs that only spoiled supporters who have been lucky enough to be successful over a generation can have.
        A positive aspect of last season is that we will hopefully show a little more humility and stop expecting success as a right in future, although I have yet to witness any decrease in the sense of entitlement manifested by so many.

    2. Indy757 says:

      Great article!!! I been saying for years on this site that some of the fans are trash and that the support they offer is really nothing but negative energy. @guy, you said it best. 8th is not the end of the world. Arsenal was 3rd best team in epl after new year. And also had a good defensive run after such a bad start.

      1. Dan kit says:

        “I’ve been saying for years that some of the fans are trash “
        Really because I’ve been on here for quite awhile and I can’t ever remember you saying this ,and if you did I’m sure you would have been pulled up on it which you haven’t which means your full of sh1t .
        You can tell the fans that have a problem with others having their own opinions when they start with the name calling .

      2. Reggie says:

        Indy and how many do you know personally that are trash. You only go on what you read and like a few on here if you dont agree you call them names, immature, trash, thick, brainless and all sorts of disgusting names and labels, just because they have a view different to you. Well as far as anyone who resorts to trashing peoples thoughts, they arent fans at all. They are rude bullies and ignorant to boot. CHALLENGE THE VIEWS NOT THE PERSON!

        1. Highbury Hero says:

          Unfortunately it always ends to the name behind the view and not the view itself.

          Funny thing is the ones called negative here were the most positive last season betting Arsenal will finish 4th or predicting title challenge and yet they were called delusional by the very people who are accusing them of being negative now.

          I have been sitting with an unfinished article since last year which is exact opposite of this one regarding my views on what it means to be a fan. It is very challenging to write and I am never satisfied with it so I just left it and revisit it occasionally. Maybe I should work on finishing it so we can have a balanced view on both sides before the season starts.

          1. Reggie says:

            HH its the minority not majority that get personal. There are some excellent posters on here in the main and many write excellent posts. If i dont like what i read, i challenge it or i just ignore it. I like to debate views and not slag the personality off. We all dont agree and if we did, it would be boring.

          2. Highbury Hero says:

            Yes Reggie by the name behind the view I was not referring to JA only but also life in general.

            You are correct disagreements are part of being human and unavoidable part of daily life. Sometimes it works for the better and sometimes for the worse.

            I don’t think anyone has the right to tell another on how to be a fan. One can suggest or advice but should never impose. There are no rules and regulations on being a fan.

          3. Reggie says:

            Correct HH.

          4. guy says:

            I’d love to read it HH. We disagree quite often (lol) but I always value your view. The temptation here – at least for me and I suspect for others too, is to give a knee jerk response to posts we don’t agree with immediately, without thinking through either the logic behind their argument how to respond reasonably and politely and in sufficient depth to justify our point.
            Agboola’s post whether you agree with the content or not, has provoked some brilliant and deep comments from all sides, the great majority being both written and received in the right spirit.
            In that respect the article has I think achieved it’s objective, and also restored my faith in this site as a place to debate without bitterness, with intelligent people who I respect about the club we all love.
            Get that article finished HH – I look forward to reading it and if it changes my views, so be it.

  10. Jah son says:

    I actually think Arteta will be gone coming the end of September

  11. A J says:

    Purely my opinion follows.

    After more years than I care to remember of loyally (as I understand the term) following Arsenal Football Club, I have seen a massive change in fan base attitude.

    Inevitable, given the ever changing expectations from all angles as to why the football club is actually existing for in the first place (business performance v sporting aspirations being the most common argument).

    Now for the unpopular view.

    I have witnessed a change in the attitude of our support since 2003/ 2004 – “The Invincibles” era.

    To dine on caviar and drink the finest of wines, and then find yourself feeding off bread & dripping and water is almost incomprehensible for some to accept.

    “Hey, this is not what I signed up for !” comes the cry.

    As we are all human beings, said non-acceptance is displayed in many different ways. many will agree with you, many won’t.

    When Arsenal landed the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in ’70 and the league / cup double in 70/71 , did I want that to happen each and every season …………………… yes – did it, of course not.

    Many, many ups and downs followed – did our loyalty waver – absolutely not.

    At the heart of our support was always the greater good of the club.

    Bring on the “Social Media” era.

    No comment.

    I believe many to set the bar of acceptability at the 2004 level – and that is always going to end in tears causing frustration, division and despondency.

    1. ken1945 says:

      AJ, well put sir!!!

      Dan and Reggie, no one is saying keep quite and act dumb, this article certainly isn’t saying that.

      It is, in my opinion, questioning the way we protest and, as an example, uses AFTV to highlight the issue.

      I have been as vocal as both of you with regards to our present situation, but would never stoop to the antics of some fans – each to their own.

      1. A J says:

        Thank you Ken – good to exchange comment with you.

        I totally concur with your post.

        Dan / Reggie.

        In no way was my comment condoning / passive acceptance of under performance, mismanagement and the like – of which I am the worse critic and a very “sore loser” (ask my wife).

        I was really trying to stay within the confides of the article, and what I thought the thrust of it to be.

        1. ken1945 says:

          GAI, if any anti MA fan is wanting him out before the season has even kicked off, or is lambasting players who haven’t even kicked a ball in anger for the club, then you coming on with this hare brained idea that kronkie takes the time to read blogs like JA and is influenced by them does NOTHING but scatter the seeds of discontent even further.

    2. jon fox says:

      AJ Bravo sir ! Such a wise post and what you demonstrate – as do my own posts further up this thread – is the vast difference beween what we oldies regards as LOYALTY and what many of the post year 2000ish fans call that same word.
      Much of the anti MA hysteria, almost all from kids, many of whom have never attended a game in person(albeit for perfectly understandable reasons)is NOT the action of SUPPORTERS, but merely spoilt kids who happen to be fans.
      Fans and SUPPORTERS are very different words!

      1. Ozziegunner says:

        Why not the same loyalty, support (by KS&E in particular) and patience towards Unai Emery? What a difference no fans in the Stadium apparently makes?

    3. guy says:

      Wow AJ – that was impressive and inciteful. Very well said. I was always of the mind that it was purely modern cultural changes requiring instant gratification, plus the growing cult of heroes being more important than the club.
      I’ve never really considered that many fans have never experienced the mediocrity and relative failure that some of us have supported Arsenal through.

      1. guy says:

        So sorry AJ – I meant to write insightful but instead implied it was written to make trouble! I promise I could spell when I was younger!

    4. Reggie says:

      AJ, i think most DONT use 2004 as a yardstick or bar level. The problem is that this club is way way below the standard that it should be setting on the field and off it. The way it is run is a shambles, the football we are producing is below the standard anyone should accept from this club. It isn’t about 2004 standard, it is about 2021 standard that is totally unacceptable. If we were Brighton, it would be party time BUT WE AREN’T BRIGHTON. We were once run well and got out what everybody put in. NOT NOW. Our club is being strangled and handicapped by poor decision making. We should let everyone know and being negative when things are negative is NEVER a crime. It is saying it as it is.

      1. A J says:

        Hi Reggie.

        Totally agree re’ current standards – in fact couldn’t agree more.

        How many more times do the likes of me have to say TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE FOR DONKEYS YEARS NOW – AND I AM AS VOCAL ABOUT THAT AS ANYONE – be they 10, 20. 30, 40 or 100 years of age.

        I don’t know how else to say it.

        But ………… I framed my comment around the changing attitude of our fans in general over many years.

        Everything is relative.

        Back in what I would call “the day” shows of dissatisfaction in crowd were displayed by empty terraces or slow hand clapping breaking out –
        NOT THE CESSPIT & ANONYMITY OF SOCIAL MEDIA ! (as we didn’t have it – thank God).

        But I would wager a hefty bet with you that many of those of a younger age “came onboard” circa “Invincibles” (nothing wrong with that) and took for granted the associate success was a given.

        1. Reggie says:

          Im not sure i like Social media bashing but that is a different area from a different generation and wether we agree or not with them, it is a generation thing and a society thing. Younger supporters (and it isn’t their fault when they were born) will only remember their early days and success, so have less to judge on.

          1. A J says:

            Hi Reggie.

            Your last line may just prove my point entirely.

      2. guy says:

        Hiya Reggie, unfortunately many fans DO use recent years gone by as yardsticks, and for perfectly forgiveable reasons. My own yardstick is the late 60’s onwards, because I didn’t watch Arsenal before then, so I am unable to draw valid parallels between now and an era of which I have no experience.
        The popularity of English football worldwide has increased exponientially since the onset of the EPL, and the popularity of Arsenal similarly so since Wenger became manager. It is extremely likely therefore that a large part of our fanbase was built between 1996 and now, or more precisely between our first success in 1998 and 2004. This was 23 years ago, meaning that any fan under about 30 years of age has only ever experienced relative success, and DO use this as the only possible measure (for them) of what is acceptable. It’s unavoidable and potentially creates different levels of expectation between two generations of fans.

        1. Reggie says:

          Correct Guy but that doesn’t make them wrong, it just makes them limited in their experience of success and failure. Thats not a fault but a consequence.

          1. guy says:

            Yay Reggie – I knew we would agree eventually!

  12. SueP says:

    There are two sides of the coin. I understand the sentiment of the article and also see the frustration in the posts of those who have become disillusioned by years of not being competitive.

    There are clubs who will be unlikely to ever have the success that Arsenal have enjoyed throughout their history but their fan base show great loyalty and vocal support on match days.

    Perhaps the successful AW years which ultimately began to peter out has caused this negativity to where we are now. We got used to success and don’t like what we are presented with now. It was a low point finishing poorly for 2 seasons

    My only point is that too much negativity must surely have a detrimental effect on the players so I advocate getting behind the team – this season more than ever.

    1. guy says:

      My point too, Sue – everybody is looking for polarised opinions these days – you love or hate, middle ground is not welcome and can invite criticism from both sides.
      Nobody says don’t criticise. But only to criticise is unhelpfully negative. As only to praise is not constructive.
      I thought people were taught how to reach agreement and carry arguments these days?
      And it is not by never listening to the other side, never mentioning anything you agree with them on.
      And progress is never made by voicing only negative thoughts.

  13. Diction Hagoi says:

    Arsenal is a legendary club and this is why Arsenal fans are so frustrated with the mediocre show by Arsenal for over a decade. The decline of Arsenal has been due to poor management which started when the Kronkes took over the club.The Kroenkes over the years chose to be ‘absentee Landlord’ type of owners and this is what made Arsenal degenerate to the current lowly state..

    Any serious enterprise must have the full commitment of the ownership in its management. When the Kroenkes came in they entrusted the management of Arsenal to Wenger who single handedly ran the show, when the running of a club is entrusted to a single individual for more than a decade then what happened to Arsenal should be expected.

    The frustrations of the fans aside, let us support the rebuild and give the manager and the team the benefit of doubt and see if there will be improvement.

  14. FingersFurnell says:

    Nice, timely article Agboola, the Club will always have my unconditional support, always has done and unfortunately I have experienced far worse times than this whilst following the Arsenal over the years

    Some of the comments about how we are treated as fans now made me smile, we’ve never had it so good in my opinion, I try not to go down the “All Our Yesterdays” route if I can but as an old git I can’t help it as I remember the “Football Specials” British Rail used to treat us to for away games, an old unsafe rattler that took 8 hours to get back from a game in the Midlands, worth it though to see our beloved team, win lose or draw

    I’m not saying we have to be deaf dumb and blind, part of being a fan is to moan about things we don’t like but I just think we need to keep a bit of perspective and I honestly believe the vast majority of Arsenal fans do

    1. guy says:

      Yes we were considered sub-human in those days Fingers!
      Having a moan is allowed. Criticism is allowed, but this format of written forum, whilst allowing eloquent, considered comments, can also easily misrepresent the tone of a writer’s comments in a way that speech would not.
      So its tough to know how strongly people feel on a subject. If we all sat in a pub I can guarantee we would never be as polarised as we sometimes get here!

  15. jon fox says:

    AdPAT.I have just pened two long detailed and agreeable post to both Ken 1945 and to guy. Both have disappeared. Why?

    This keeps occurring to me . Again why? Sometimes they then reappear after a delay of several minutes but sometimes they do not. Whats going on please PAT!

    1. guy says:

      It happens sometimes to me too Jon – I don’t think it’s directed at you – they appear eventually! Maybe our minds just work to quickly lol

      1. jon fox says:

        Well guy for certain my mind works far quicker than my aged and clumsy fingers. You have no idea how long it takes me these days to correct the constant typos.

        I much admired your post above timed at 11. 03. When did you first attend Highbury? Mine was in 1955 but regularly since 1958.

        1. guy says:

          I’ve never been a season ticket holder Jon – I grew up in Portsmouth. I’m a spring chicken and was born in the year you started to regularly go. I would love to hear your recollections of the 7 years you saw that I missed sometime. An era of change that I know little about. My first game was I think 65-66 when I was 7. The basis for the 1970 team was already there, plus Eastham, Baker and Howe. I have never until quite recently lived particularly close to London and was often the only Gooner I knew. My family was posted to Africa for a few years when I was a kid, so I never got to more than a couple of games a season until the 70’s when I would go 10-15 times a season (I could get tickets then!). Unfortunately too many games at that time were not exactly pulsating! I love travel and also lived in France and Russia subsequently, so even getting results pre-internet was an issue. But being a Gooner is an AMAZING way to meet people abroad. TBH whilst always a fan, the total obsession began with Wenger and I still haven’t forgiven him!

          1. jon fox says:

            A very interesting background guy, esp your comment that you only became obsessed when AW came.

            I was hooked from my earliest childhood years with tales from Grandad and Dad of the times when Grandad went to Woolwich and DAD told me all about the thirties with great relish. I honestly cannot remember a time in my young life when I was not enthralled by ARSENAL.

            Moving on to Billy Wrights last season summer of 1966 when he was sacked for finshing lower mid table- I think 13/14th- I actually walked around Avenell Rd with a pathetic piece of cardboard on which I has dawbed, “Wright must stay”! Boy, how wrong can any kid be.
            IN SEASON 1963/4 (again I think) we scored 90 Div One goals and conceded 84, in 42 games. JOE BAKER AND GEOFF STRONG BOTH SCORED 26 LEAGUE GOALS. I remember two 4 -4 draws with Spurs around that time and in season ’62 or ’63 we were 0 -3 down to Spurs at WHL after barely 15 mins but drew 4-4. And back then Spuds were by far Londons finest team.

            Seems like only yesterday but don’t ask me what happened in the actual real yesterday, cos i can’t remember !!!

            We finished, I think, third in season57/58 when I began going but not in the top five or six again til (I think) MEES DOUBLE SIDE OF 1971. But we made three cup finals under NEILL, WINNING IN ’79.

            Fanhood was totally different in those pre social media days from now when “everyone is an expert”. If only!!!

        2. guy says:

          replying here to your 60’s tour Jon as there’s no reply button there:
          Really nice post Jon, thanks.
          Keep them coming theyre a pleasure to read – I’m sure not just for me! Let’s get some real historical perspective out there for a club whose fanbase is apparently so proud of its tradition, has to be more interesting than just comparing how many goals we scored in 2004/5 and 2005/6!

        3. guy says:

          Actually my reply to RVL4s rather angry post has not made it here, so either I’m on an MI5 list or my response is seen to be provocative, although milder than the original. Maybe it will reappear later. Or maybe this one will disappear too. Ahh well…

          1. jon fox says:

            guy YES, I always had suspicions that Ad PAT is also head of MI5!!

      2. Jay says:

        Good post Israel. I think we should all just back the team at this point, seems the only option workable now. Years of criticism and anti- arsenal posts has only gotten the team more alienated from the desired success. It seems the more criticism, the more the retrogression. The pressure and over criticism of the team especially of the players impacts negatively on confidence. Let’s get behind the team 100% this time around and see how far they can get. COYG!!

  16. ken1945 says:

    Yes DH, The Arsenal are a legendary club, but a club that has seen ups and downs like every other club.

    What has made us legendary though?

    Here’s an example – our legendary Sue has been on the waiting list for a s/t for years…. and she is still numbered in said list at 40,000 plus.

    We have an enormous following and there will obviously be differences of opinions with every story/article/decision taken.

    I believe the club’s handling of Ozil was atrocious and said so on many occasions…. I was even told to leave with him by some fans!!!

    That didn’t /hasn’t stopped me from supporting the club and I cheered them during this period because they are my team.

    THAT is precisely what the author of this excellent article is saying we should be doing – but we even have a post above saying that MA will be sacked in November if we’re not in the top six!!!

    Can ANYONE tell me how that is supporting our club, because I’m struggling to make sense of it all?

    1. guy says:

      Good post Ken. We disagree almost as often as we agree (lol), but we both see what the article is trying to say. I guess it shows some people will manage to read into things exactly what they choose, and that the few people Agboola is actually trying to reach (who contrary to some opinions is not anyone who has a gripe!) will never listen.
      Great debate though that has largely reaffirmed my faith in the readership.

      1. ken1945 says:

        True guy, but the passion we have in our DNA is The Arsenal and it stays with one until the lights go out – not that mine have quite yet!!!!

    2. Ozziegunner says:

      Ken, I would argue that Ozil’s “handling of the Club was atrocious.” One we’ll have to agree to disagree on.
      In response to your comment on GAI and “sacked in November”, it probably refers to a classy club being consistent in its treatment of manager/head coaches.

      1. ken1945 says:

        OG, on Ozil, it’s in the past now and I’m certain not ONE supporter has left the club!!!

        As for the “sacked in November” quote, I think that highlights EXACTLY why our fanbase is always at loggerheads.

        I sometimes despair at the negativity from some on JA.

  17. Thumper says:

    I take it as a given that we all want Arsenal to be winners. Therefore when we’re losing we all want things to change. But what change? I enjoy the banter of “It’s simple. If I were in charge of Arsenal…” I have my views but I wouldn’t seriously put myself in charge of my Arsenal. My mates have their views but I wouldn’t seriously put them in charge of my pot plants!
    As a fan I find it hard to be critical whist still trying to have a positive influence on the club going forward. I want to scream my disappointment at what I see as our underwhelming play and have to force myself to only be cheering the moments when we do shine. Maybe that’s why rival away fans so often out sing us at Emirates. My hope is that by loudly praising what’s good the club will respond by doing more of it.
    However the Library Highbury effect of many years isn’t exactly the “How to Succeed” handbook clubs are searching for. We can do better and the new season gives us a new opportunity. Supporting Arsenal isn’t a choice for me. My choice is how I support and so for another season… COYG!
    Of course in view, ” It’s simple. We need a energetic creative midfield, lightning on-form strikers and a impenetrable defence who are all ready to give everything for the team.!”

    1. guy says:

      Lol Thumper – nice.

    2. jon fox says:

      Thumper, sounds so eaasy when you put it like that and so well too, if I may say so. But pot plants are definitely dodgy to look after!!

  18. Aaron says:

    What a fan can be defined as can go a million ways, however never forget who we are owned by now.

    ksE’s teams have won one championship under their ownership, and that was a hockey team that was in their prime.

    Think about that for a minute, (5 sports teams) and 10-20 years of running clubs, and one big W.

    Good luck everyone, temper your expectations, and don’t put all your eggs in the basket of hope.

    What are you rooting for?

  19. jon fox says:

    BREAKING NEWS: ESR has just signed a new and long term contract and will wear number ten! YEEESS!

    1. guy says:

      No 10! Yay that tells me a lot

  20. The-Real-Vieira-Lynn-4ever says:

    It’s difficult to even know where to start with this misguided and frankly insulting article…of course, you have every right to offer up your opinions on such matters, but to even suggest for a second that there’s some sort of obligatory responsibility on the part of the paying fanbase to show some sort of blind allegiance is, at best, laughable and, at worst, despicable, considering the implications of just such an absurd request

    the fact that this “call to acquiescence” comes on the heels of a few largely periphery purchases and a relatively expensive acquisition of questionable import, reminds me of the usual club-based banter that coincidentally occurs every season just prior to the ticket renewal period…if there’s one thing this club doesn’t need it’s a silent partner…left to it’s own devices, it has continually misled and mistreated it’s incredibly loyal fanbase and mismanaged it’s way to mediocrity…frankly, if anything we’ve been too easy on this flailing organization and many of it’s underwhelming recruits

    the fact that you even utilised the Liverpool and Xhaka examples as a means to an end, shows your utter obtuseness…Pool was in utter despair for years, as it’s owners preyed on the loyalty of it’s fanbase, until they eventually said “no more” and summarily forced it’s previous American owners to sell off their interests in the club, with the tireless efforts of the Spirit of Shankly fan group, which saw both Hicks and Gillett be forced to walk away empty-handed from their ill-fated tenure as Liverpool ‘custodians.’ Klopp’s arrival was simply a further attempt by new ownership to restore a winning culture within a the club and to appease the longstanding concerns of a loyal fanbase

    as for the whole Xhaka debacle, the vast majority of the fan’s displeasure, prior to the “bird-flipping” incident, was directly related to his inability to live up to his original billing…only after he displayed his utter contempt for those in the fanbase who called him to the carpet for his ineptitude, did things escalate exponentially…of course, it’s totally unacceptable that some fans chose to verbally assault his family members and they should be dealt with harshly, but their actions shouldn’t mean that he shouldn’t be held accountable for his failings…in many respects, it’s the same cake and eat it too relationship that has existed between this club and the fanbase, in that Xhaka wants all the potential monetary et al benefits that come with having a social media following, without any of the oft-times negative consequences that come with any public platform

    let’s face it, everything changed at this club on the very day when they bought hook, line and sinker into the business-first model…built on a complex serious of lies that promised us our just rewards if we were willing to be incredibly patient and continually pay the highest prices in the footballing world, this owner and it’s trusty henchmen, of which Wenger was of paramount importance, took advantage of our continued compliance…so in light of these facts, we owe them nothing…in fact, they must regain our trust through their actions and an uptick in results…so anyone who claims otherwise has either their head squarely in the sand, is a complicit accomplice or an unmitigated rube

    now this doesn’t mean that everyone should be on a constant rampage against all things club-related or that there shouldn’t be acknowledgements directed towards positive aspects of the club or it’s players, but anyone who even dares to quell the voices of it’s fanbase is a far worse evil than those who openly express their displeasure, so long as it complies with the societal laws of the day…that said, as soon as this organization lives up to their end of the bargain, I’ll gladly return to the predominantly positive fan I was before our absentee landlord arrived on the scene and chose to purposely take advantage of our love for this once glorious club

    1. ken1945 says:

      How’s the promised Wenger article coming along….. can’t think of much else to say really.

    2. Thumper says:

      Much of what you say is correct. However I’m not sure expressing it as you do will get the results you hope for.
      Players, managers, fellow supporters and even (by report from across the Atlantic) owners are sentient beings.
      Elneny, as a perhaps less contentious example for an article about fans getting behind the team, is not the greatest midfielder ever to wear an Arsenal shirt. But I see him giving his all. He is giving his all not only for his team and our club but for us in the stands. We can choose to cheer as he busts a gut or boo when a pass goes astray. The point is which is more likely to bring success.? He already knows the pass wasn’t great. If we can encourage the best out of him the team’s and his results will improve. We can then look to upgrade our squad and even be in the position to sell on our improved Elneny to a mid-table team!

      1. Ozziegunner says:

        Thumper, agree on Mo Elneny; unfortunately there are others who don’t put in for the Club, commensurate to their abilities.

  21. guy says:

    Elequently vitriolic as ever RVL4!
    Totally agree with your last paragraph, which works for me on a free-standing basis.
    The rest was you being…you. Saying things that while perhaps are perfectly valid points in such a vindictive way that I wince to read them. Like I suspect many readers I was just pleased that so far today you haven’t directed your machine gun at me (although there is still time! lol).
    You are extremely intelligent and articulate (I need to look up “rube” though) but voicing your arguments in such a personal way and in such emotive language risks alienating many who would otherwise agree with you.
    If you scroll down most readers think the article sparked a useful debate even if they disagreed with some of the points in it. I worry that to attack those who post articles that you don’t agree with so viciously could mean we soon have no body left willing to contribute, and I don’t believe that is actually your aim.
    Putting my head back below the parapet now…

    1. SueP says:

      Guy
      Perfecto
      I’ve tried getting that message across but you nailed it

    2. The-Real-Vieira-Lynn-4ever says:

      I must admit, I’m a tad surprised by your response Guy, in that I actually thought it was a comparatively tame retort…fear not Horatio, even though all is not right in this here Denmark, my intentions are pure, as I have nothing against those whom see green when I see red, but that doesn’t mean I can’t offer my particular truth, warts and all…I certainly meant no ill-well, but if a little prickliness had changed our course of action, some years ago, wouldn’t you agree that an ounce or two of short-term discomfort would have a been a welcome alternative to our rather protracted plight…got to go, there’s a wolf in the yard

  22. The-Real-Vieira-Lynn-4ever says:

    Ken, in the famous words of one Jack Nicholson “you can’t handle the truth”…as I’ve surmised, from reading yours and other like-minded individual’s articles and responses on JA, you’re clearly not ready yet to engage in a truly open-minded discussion regarding our former manager…keeping in mind, that I was a very vocal supporter of Wenger’s up until the point in which he joined forces with our present owner and helped to perpetuate the “big lie”, so long as his own self-interests, monetarily and otherwise, were taken care of…I would imagine that if our present experiment somehow comes good and we’re able to reshape the Arsenal narrative, this will open the door to the aforementioned discussion…until that occurs though, the shadow of Arsene Wenger will continue to loom too large, thereby negatively affecting any logical or potentially fruitful discourse…Cheers

  23. FingersFurnell says:

    I think that Ken’s post might just have been a way of saying that the point of this particular article was to put aside all of our negative opinions and get behind Mikel and the boys for the new season ahead, nobody owes anybody anything but it’s the least we can and I agree with it

    Nobody is saying sit down, shut up or asking anyone to change their opinion, on another article your post might just have hit the spot and generated some healthy debate but I don’t think Agboola deserved that to be fair

    However, whilst on that subject, one that you clearly know far about than I would ever care to, my pick up would be about Liverpool, who didn’t have any noticeable years of utter despair to my eyes, they just went through a fairly long dip after years of dominance both domestically and in Europe and I’m not convinced any of the owners were fully to blame for that dip.

    Hicks and Gillett took over Liverpool in 2007 when they bought out the former family owners (majority share holders) for years in the Moores, but only lasted 3 years, they inherited a fairly large debt from the Moores but managed to increase the size of that debt by some way in short order and reportedly run the Club at an increasing loss in those 3 years before being held to account by the creditors and were forced to sell by the High Courts, so genuinely dodgy rather than allegedly dodgy in their case and although the fans saw that and were vocal about it they didn’t actually get them out but they have continued to be on the case of Fenway who bought out Hicks and Gillett much like some of our supporters are with Kroenke, who got involved around the time that Hicks and Gillett did at Liverpool (07), took full ownership in 2018 and is obviously still there

    I tend not to worry too much about all this though, it’s not part of the game I have always loved and supported, it is about money, even David Dein, who is widely acknowledged to be the most involved Board Member over the years who genuinely affected the paying side, was in it for the money, he just backed the wrong horse, he went with Usmanov having sold his shares to Kroenke previously, those that sell shares to conclude a takeover like the Moores, Dein and others are also responsible for the outcome

    Now I’ve probably got that all wrong, it’s far from my specialist subject but if I have a point it is probably that we don’t know the half of it and having a little knowledge is worse than total ignorance, which we were on this particular subject back in the day when we just supported the team and didn’t really care too much about the rich suits upstairs

    1. guy says:

      I reckon you have a point there Fingers. We as lifelong fans, are possibly the most passionate and opinionated people on the planet abouit Arsenal, certainly when compared with most club employees, players and managers, who as temporary visitors have understandably less allegiance.
      Yet of all of these we are the least in the know, and open to be pulled left, right and inside out by every unscrupulous third party peddling rumours.
      Truly a recipe for disaster, mistrust, and depression!

      1. jon fox says:

        guy I loved your first paragraph but do not accept that we fans – at least not we who have been around the club for many decades – are less in the know than todays players and other club employees, even managers.

        We oldies have seen many decades of how the club has worked and what it stood for, whereas players, even MA, has not. What would such as Auba and Xhaka know of David Deins key role for many years ; of how our club came into being back in 1886; of even Bertie Mee and Frank McLintock etc etc.

        I suggest those players will know very little and far less than we passionate older fans who have spent a lifetime following OUR club.

        And it is OUR club , far more than it is theirs. We are in it for love, while they are in it for a career and high wages.That is my firmly held view anyway!

        Players come and go but the club survives, but take all fans away permanently and the club dies. QED!

        1. guy says:

          I’m probably giving them too much credit Jon. I wasn’t considering tradition which we definitely have nailed – more “current affairs” if you like. For example the background to Guendouzi, Saliba affairs, The real Ozil story. How much many we actually have to spend. Who is happy here, who isnt. Was there a reason player x was dropped etc etc. Heck we spend 3/4 of our time here arguing about that stuff!
          re your last paragraph. I thought the perfect illustration of that power specifically in England, and the respect it is held in worldwide, was the ESL bid. Riding roughshod over all legal, media, league threats as if they didnt exist. Within two hours of the English fans demonstrating, the whole thing collapsed. “Vlast’ proletariata!” (the power of the common man)

          1. FingersFurnell says:

            Good morning guy, I admire and respect your thoughts on why the ESL crashed and burnt so quickly but I’m not convinced it was fan power myself, who knows, they may have been testing the boundaries with various authorities or maybe they just cocked it up, I think it will come back in a slightly different guise at some point though

            In general we know what we know but it’s what we think we know that creates the debate environment that by and large is healthy and enjoyable

            We certainly know more about being supporters than the players and the history that goes with that because we have lived some of that history but we don’t know what actually goes on in the dressing room, training field or the Boardroom, how could we

            The current players do know most of that, they know more about playing for Arsenal than we ever will (unfortunately), even Williian!

            We form our own differing views based on what we see on the pitch and the rest is based on what the media spin in our direction

          2. jon fox says:

            Yes guy I certainly agree with what you say here and I also liked the Fingers post below but do not agree with him on his first paragraph.

            To my mind, mass fan power DEFINITELY explains the KSE panicked raction and the charade of the proposed fan advisory board, which will be toothless in practise , even though a good idea in THEORY!

  24. RSH says:

    nope, too many players with bad attitudes on the squad. Arteta spent january getting rid of a certain clique of Aresnal players that weren’t pulling their weight. And I suspect there are others. The fact Willian is giving up after one year shows his heart was never in it and he just wanted an easy time to finish his career. Bellerin checked out several seasons ago, there are no leaders amongst these guys and half are overpaid. Get real fighters who know what it means to play for Arsenal. It shouldn’t be too hard to find this but apparently it is. Have to wonder if it is something cultural in the boardroom. Because the fans are all united in having players who want to be here. So no to Locatelli, Aouar, or any other player that thinks this is a vacation.

    1. Ozziegunner says:

      👍

  25. Joe. S says:

    I will patiently support my local suburban club through thick and thin because they rely on local juniors and pub raffles to survive and every season brings its own highs and lows. But in three years time Arsenal will be celebrating 20 years since their last Premiership, and during this time fans have had to deal with many false promises and much mediocre decision making. Fans of professional sports invest so much emotionally and financially. Isn’t it our right to vent anger, frustration and demand change when things have reached this end. Idiotic trolling is criminal but bad bad buys which have been detrimental to the club’s standing should be called out for what they are. So good riddance Xhaka. I did not enjoy watching you play one bit. You will leave no lasting memory and your shirt will not be sort after by collectors. As for Arteta, well the season is in his hands. I have a gut feeling that he will fluff it.

  26. The Armoury Guard says:

    There is definitely an obvious paradigm shift occuring, hopefully kick-starting a generation of players who appreciate what it means to wear the jersey with pride, self-belief and ability to achieve great feats. Both the hierarchy, the coaching and playing staff, as well as the fans must come together in realising greatness again.

  27. Hasty says:

    Totally bollocks its the fans who are being abused.Its 17 years since Arsenal put an meaningful challenge for the title.And dont mention our failure’s in Europe. Arsenal charge the fans the highest ticket prices in the world. We are now a club that cant even make the top 6. Wenger was a total disaster in the last decade of his reign.In 2015 we could have got Klopp but we kept hold of Wenger.Will Arsenal win a title again in our lifetime?No not under the Kroenke’s

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