IF it turns out that Arsenal have thrown away Champions League qualification, then several people have to take accountability.
The manager for deciding to build a youthful squad with zero leaders, the owners for prioritising In January the need to slash the wage bill, and of course the players for simply not showing up in certain fixtures.
I’ll give you one more group to blame and it won’t make me popular ……the fans!
In life, as well as sport, it’s not hard to have standards. If you really want to, you can simply not accept those standards not being met.
You may have read accusations that I don’t think Arteta has done a good job.
It’s not an opinion, it’s a factual statement.
That’s because my expectations for Arsenal is bare minimum a club our size should be making the top 4. Anything less than that it’s not okay.
Our manager has said so himself that we should only settle for challenging for the major honours, that’s it’s inexcusable for us not to be in Europe, etc.
So, if someone is paid millions of pounds of a year with the job specification of taking us back to UEFA elite competition and after their third season they have failed to do so, that’s not a success, is it?
Again, not an opinion, it’s a fact that the Spaniard has failed to meet his criteria.
Mr Wenger was driven out of the club for finishing 6th, Emery sacked for 5th, so how come our owners have now extended contracts without knowing what European competition we will be playing in?
History shows the Kroenke Family have never cared where we finish in the table, they can make money off Arsenal the brand.
So, if they see a fanbase lowering their ambition it’s music to their ears.
Where’s there zero tolerance to failure?
If they wanted, they could create an atmosphere at the Emirates where it’s known that 5th is unacceptable for a club our size.
Like Man United and Chelsea do.
Can you see Tan Hag finishing 8th twice then 5th and United calling it progress just because he failed the first two times?
Arsenal are the only big club who think like that because some Gooners let them do that.
Can you imagine a Thierry Henry jumping into the crowd to celebrate a home equaliser against Palace that put us in the dizzy heights of 12th?
What about a Vieira leading celebrations with away fans at Wolves to put us 5th?
When did we become such a small, minded club?
Supporters who mocked Mr Wenger for ‘only finishing 4th’ now treating it like it’s the holy grail.
We even had some fans think January was a good window because we had slashed the wage bill.
Imagine Stan Kroenke when he realises not just is he reducing salaries, but he’s got his customers saying it’s a great idea!
We gave away Aubameyang and was left with Eddie Nketiah, and some thought it was a good idea!
Some woke up when it was too late, realising that between Auba, Guendouzi, Saliba, Bellerin, Maitland Niles, Chambers, Nelson and Torreira, we probably did have players who could have helped a young squad.
Most of those are loaned out purely to save money which again fans supported.
At our stadium while the atmosphere has been amazing at times, expectations hit an all-time low.
Defeats at home to Man City and Liverpool were accepted because we played well. How patronising.
Imagine a Tony Adams happy to lose 2-0 to Liverpool because we had got to half time goalless.
Not showing up in the FA Cup was allowed because it meant we could focus on the League.
A 3-0 loss at Selhurst Park, once considered an embarrassment, was accepted based on us having games in hand.
Being outplayed in the NLD, once humiliating, was blamed on officials.
Even on Justarsenal, a platform I wrote for for years, I saw a change in attitudes.
Where once you could have an opinion, you get personally attacked for saying Arsenal should be aiming higher than this.
Instead of a footballing argument you would get abuse for pointing out the obvious.
Even banter that can’t be banter because it makes zero sense.
Such as when Ole and Lampard were sacked by United and Chelsea, this apparently proved that Arteta was the better coach because out of the three ex-players he outlasted them.
When I pointed out he’s finished below both, I got called negative.
When I laughed at the notion that our youngsters were better than Wilshere, Ramsey, etc, i was told I had an agenda.
My agenda is for Arsenal to be the best they can be.
To not accept mediocrity.
To not say everything is great just because you love the club.
To not celebrate 5th and draws at home to midtable clubs.
That it’s never okay to lose to anyone unless you give 100 percent.
That slashing the wage bill shouldn’t be a priority.
These things have happened because the fan base have allowed it to happen
We were promised by now we would be competing with Bayern Munich.
We are further away from winning the title at any point since we last won it.
Our style of football is not entertaining.
We don’t have a single world class player.
Blind hope and fake praise doesn’t hurt me, I’m one guy with an opinion.
It hurts the culture of the club.
Time to say enough now.
Dan Smith
CALLING ALL ARSENAL FANS! Anyone who would like to contribute an Article or Video opinion piece on JustArsenal, please contact us through this link…
Learn more about your club – Decade by Decade CLICK HERE to visit our new Arsenal History section
Plain and simple, the fans are being “gaslit”…IJS
We can’t do without an ARTETA article per day, can we……?
No caus its relevant
Plus I would argue this article was about fans
But as usual your agenda, about the Kroenke’s not spending is there, and no matter how many times and no matter how many different angles you try it from, it is still false. Plain and simple.
I am amased it is so difficult to understand. There is no succesful business model in seeing Arsenal drop down the pecking order, and the Kroenks know that. That is why, they are in fact investing again and again in getting us back into contention. But as they aren’t oligarchs or have bottomless oil ressources in a “dubious” country, they/we have to do like the rest of the clubs; In a way it makes financial sense.
Them slashing the wage bill in January was false ?
Our league positioning regressing under them false ?
Selling best players to rivals false ?
Trying to join the super League false ?
Like I said , if your happy with Job they done great
More BS taken out of context.
You can take any club and find they have sold players, you would call “best” at a particular time
The fact is Arsenal under Kroenke have been a very big spending club both on transfers and on salaries. This season the overall most spending club in the whole league.
If you want to be taken seriously, you should argue with real facts.
AndersS, he can’t argue with facts, as his reasons for Wenger’s and Emery’s sackings are pure 🐂💩
Nobody knows whether the job specification was to bring Arsenal back to UCL within two and a half years, but I assume next season’s target is the UCL ticket
I think Wenger got sacked because his trend was downwards, since Arsenal finish 5th in 2016/17 season and 6th in 2017/18. Emery also showed a downward trend by finishing 5th in 2018/19 and had a winless run of seven games in 2019/20
On the other hand, Arteta’s progress was either stagnant and upwards (from 8th to 5th). In my opinion, he will never get sacked, unless he embarrasses the club by having a winless run of seven games as Emery did
Emery is now embarrassing Villarreal by getting knocked out of CL semis
@HH
While Arteta is hoping Norwich beat Spurs and that we can beat Everton, all so we can get dumped out at the knock out stages of the CL…Either way we’re playing in the Europas. Why embarrass ourselves by trying to compete with the big boys…IJS
He showed his capabilities in Spain, because the players and the fans don’t ridicule him there
Sorry GAI, but you have it exactly backwards.
THE CLUB finished 5th, 6th, and 5th, but still stuck in Europa league with 2 different managers
That is called “stagnation” for the club.
THE CLUB finished 8th, then 8th again and out of European football, first time in over 2 decades.
THAT is known as “decline” or “downward trend” all under 1 manager Arteta.
Our final 8th position in 2019/20 wasn’t entirely Arteta’s fault, since he just managed Arsenal for several months
Our final 8th position in 2020/21 was Arteta’s first full season
Our final 5th position in 2021/22 is a good progress
but didn’t the club regress from 5th to 8th? If Arteta doesn’t get credit for the drop, then why does he get credit for FA Cup? Emery gets blamed for 9th when Arteta took over after all.
Sorry it’s just hard to keep up with the goalposts constantly being moved under Arteta.
Guess top 6 is the new top 4 then, but the way some call it progress? Isn’t this exactly where Emery finished his season, in 5th?
Odd how it’s not considered “stagnation” for the club, but cited as “progress” for Arteta. Who are we fans of, Arsenal or Arteta? Just wondering who our allegiance should be for, the club or the manager?
People got that mixed with Wenger, and apparently here we are again.
All managers, coaches and players at Arsenal during the 2019/20 season deserved the recognition for the cup win. Emery managed Arsenal for a half-season at that time and then Arteta came, so they both shared the blames and the credits
That’s why I said our final 8th position in 2019/20 wasn’t entirely Arteta’s fault, but we must remember it wasn’t his full season
I’m an Arsenal fan and I support their decision to keep Arteta
I agree with you, hence my saying Arteta bears some (half a season’s worth) or responsibility for the regression to 8th place.
Also the further regression of missing out on European football, that’s all on his watch.
It only took 2 1/2 years and 250 million to get back to 5th where Emery and Wenger finished with a fraction of that time and funds available.
An honest question for you GAI, if Arteta misses out on top 4 next year, should he be sacked? Is 3 1/2 years enough time to get back to the top 4 and CL?
Funds spent will likely be well over 300 million after this Summer, possibly exceeding 350 million; depending on the kitty available.
Yes, Durand. If Arteta can’t bring Arsenal back to top four next season, I believe he’ll get the boot
“Arsenal were languishing in 11th in the Premier League at the time, and Arteta charitably claimed that his newly inherited squad, who were much-maligned at the time after a series of embarrassments under Emery, had performed better than he had expected against a team who would be relegated within 18 months.”
We were 11th when he managed our first game and we ended 8th.
Durand I don’t know where you get your information from but FA cup competition starts from January which started with Arteta and not Emery, so in that aspect he deserves the praise.
Where you criticize him is getting us back at 8th which was last season and he deserves all the criticism but this season taking us from 8th to just 2points short of 4th I can’t call that failure.
Some Arsenal fans simply want to label Arteta as a failure or substandard manager. As such their every contribution is based around whatever dubious or arbitrary criteria they can present to further this agenda.
All Arsenal fans evidently want the team to do well and be challenging for major honours. There are differences in perspective about how we can practically achieve this. Some people have made up their minds about Arteta and want him out. This can be seen from the stead drip of negative articles and comments on sites such as these. Others recognise that there have been positives this season and there are no easy answers to what have been long-standing issues. As such, a significant number of fair-minded fans feel he should be given more time to shape the team.
How many times have I got to say that one observation don’t make a trend … you don’t need to be a statistical genius to u defat and that … and as most people have already pointed out endlessly the one of jump from 8th to 5th is largely due to the poor performance of rival teams as much as our improvements on the pitch …
So it is now our fault that rival teams flopped this season but it wasn’t rival fans fault we have flopped for the past 4 seasons without getting 4th position?
He said it was
This idea Arsenal are a club that’s so big it should automatically be top four is ridiculous. Equally the idea they are somehow under performing everybody else is also stupid. United are a bigger club and under the Glazer’s ownership have done worse. City and Chelsea have been able to buy success, you can’t compare a normal club to them. Liverpool are the gold standard, everyone should be trying to copy their organisation. You have a number of clubs that are of a similar size and could make that top four. Even When Arsenal were dominant in North London under Wenger the fanbase at Spurs was pretty much the same size, the ground just wasn’t big enough to hold them. Once Wenger left and Pochettino arrived things changed. But again the fan bases are still pretty much equal, they probably always will be. You have a number of clubs chasing those top four places, I wonder how West Ham would have done this season without the distractions of Europe. Next season Newcastle will probably join the party. Its not about ambition. Its about organisation. Its about getting more bang for your buck in the transfer market. Its about having a better scouting and coaching set up than your rivals. Basically unless you have oil money its about copying Liverpool.
Absolutely agree with everything you wrote
We need logic like Jod above to be anywhere near the comparison but having the likes of Arteta doesn’t help.
I disagree.
Having the likes of Arteta with the right support can bring success.
Couldn’t agree more, jod. The article states about the damage to the culture but this isn’t just a recent thing. This began under Wenger. When we became the selling club. That is when the culture changed for the worst. The debt of the stadium was a burden, I accept that. But to build a fortress and only then to fill it with skeleton staff was a massive mistake. We needed to build on the team. Not dismantle it!
MA is now a manager inheriting the mediocrity of a club ran by investors/owners who initially wanted to profit at the expense of winning. Until the investors/owners are willing to fully bring this club back to it’s roots and values, we’re likely to be typing these comments for much longer yet. The Krokes do not and have never understood the true value of the club. It’s supports. The people who turn up every week to support the team. MA will remain because he the “yes” man and the Kronkes are happy with him being in the spotlight.
We became a selling club by huge profit margins that have sustained the club for many years.
What is worse, selling players for a healthy profit or giving away world class players for free?
Fact is, we should not have sold our best players at all! The Arsenal board always maintained the the new stadium was required if Arsenal were to compete with the very best and to attract the best players. The club have declined to nothing more than a mid-table team. Scrapping for for top 6 every season. The fact our players leave for free is because the club has been so badly managed!
GunneRay, when and under what manager, did we ACTUALLY start giving away players for free.. and continue paying their salaries?
Ken1945, that was one player, and he received a fraction of the wages he was entitled to. Would you rather he stayed at the club causing disruption ?
Well said Jod. Top-4 was much easier to achieve back in the Wenger days before so many clubs, even “Smaller” clubs, got wealthy foreign owners and the league got a lot more competitive.
Why was it easier?
Wenger was achieving top four and actually winning the league before the kronkie’s became owners.
I have never read a manure supporter saying that there was only two clubs in it when Arsenal and United were going at it hammer and tongs.
We simply had the two best managers, the best players and, while one club would buy success by outbidding every other club, we had to work within our budget…. as we always have done.
If your scenario regarding the “smaller clubs” suddenly becoming a threat, why wasn’t finishing in the top four year after year actually RECOGNISED?
I honestly believe that one day I will read that when Arsenal won the league, it was only because there was ONE team in it!!!
Excellent. Thank you Jod.
Thank you jod for making such a clear and rational summary of the situation
It is 100% (I’d say an extra 10 but I’m not a footballer:) all about ambition.
And it starts from the top of the tree. Does Stan really want us to be the best team in the world, Will he so anything in his power to make it so, does he love football as his one and o oh true love, does he love Arsenal?
No, he is not in it to win it (his own words) and is why since he became top cheese at our club we have seen it’s ambition fall drastically.
Ambition means get the best you can, best manager (is MA the best we can get?) , best players, most experienced , successful and skilled staff especially in lofty /important positions (MA/Edu et al)..
Mediocrity has been accepted (as long as Stan gets passive and steady returns on one of his many sports projects) and this permeated throughout the club towards the end of wengers years.
We were promised the world and we got europa league..
Said it before and will say it again, while Stan and his fellow kronkies remain we will not win a pre use league or major European trophy (even if I include the europa;). He simply does not want it enough..
Totally agree Jod and well argued. This particular point is not about Arteta himself (IMHO he’s not taken us anywhere near as far as he should in 30 months) but about the eternal ridiculous arguments that we are entitled to win the EPL merely because we are The Arsenal, whereas based on history, fanbase and most of all finances we actually rank some way down that pecking order.
I’ve no problems criticising failure and poor performances and calling for a new manager, which may well be deserved, but please don’t play that totally unjustified “We are entitled” card.
Jod, great post, probably the best I’ve read on here 👏👏
Perspectives are required in making profound judgments.
Arsenal fans do not have low standards and expectations.
Arsenal fans ACCEPT that a team of young players require TIME to adjust to playing in the big stage.
It took Bertie Mee three years to win a trophy of any kind after a team rebuild in the 1960s.
It took Klopp three years and eight months to build and win his first trophy at Liverpool.
Even Pep didn’t win any trophy in his first season at ManC.
Arteta won an FA cup in his first half season and has qualified for Europe in his two and a half seasons. That’s not a lowering of standards, it progress.
Learn to trust the process buddy your arguments are agenda driven.
Wenger was not sacked for not making UCL. He was dismissed for a noticable drift in the management of the teams performances.
Emery was sacked because he was not a good fit for Arsenal.
Arteta has proven to be a good fit and given time, should produce a title winning team.
TRUST THE PROCESS MAN!
Didn’t qualify for Europe last year, just saying. First time in over 2 decades as well.
Wenger’s fault? Emery’s? Or was it Arteta?
They didn’t win trophies but they were playing in CL.
HH, and we kept on getting humiliated in that competition.
What is your benefit by going to the Champions league and get beaten like a championship team?
Until we get a very good team that can fight to the semi final of UCL we should focus on Europa league because we have greater chance of winning that then getting to the Quarter final of UCL and both are still European trophies.
It’s not about lowering down your standard it’s about who you are now not what you were!
@Tony IKpo sorry don’t compare Arteta with Klop at Liverpool because we all knew what Klop had done with Dortmund in Germany and other hand you talking about apprentice who is still trying to figure out his coaching philosophy,please tell what is our DNA where are we good at hei defending,keeping possession or attacking don’t forget this guy is been with us for lamps 3 years now but he is still clueless
I discussedbwith a friend on the type of reactions that will occur as of the time when Mikel was offered contract extension.
The decision will be praised if things go well the club will be seen as having finally getting the right calls but if things go wrong then it will just be the opposite that’s just how it is..
They knew all this risks involved
In my own opinion the club wasn’t confident on our chances of obtaining top 4 so they choose the best time to give him the contract extension when there was a feel good atmosphere around the club incase if things go wrong then they will not have to make this decision when there will likely be more angry fans critical of them. Arteta is everything the board wanted someone who was loved and who can work with them with their flaws and the fans will buy into it.
I saw people suggesting Conte to be arsenal manager. Do you believe Conte and this people we have managing the club will last for more than one season
@Gun Down, you have said it all
The Conte that was sacked by Chelsea, left Milan for a club like Spurs that is going nowhere and has never gone anywhere for more than 30 decades?
If Arsenal wanted Conte we would have gotten him because right now there aren’t any Top clubs fighting for his signature. Arsenal and Spurs are his level right now..
@gundown
Do you really think the board would choose to continue with Arteta, if they didn’t believe he is the right man to take us forward?
What should be their motivation?
If he will never get sacked unless running seven winless games then arsenal will go no where near champions league.
Mr. Smith you said it all.if Arteta don’t sit up next season , he must go. Enough is enough.! INDEED we have good youngsters but senior players have to be added to introduce grit in the team. Boys are boys. See what happen during the NLD , the boys were separated from the men and same thing repeated at Newcastle. And Arteta lack tactical know-how which was obvious in these two games. Where are the arsenal fans that chased Wenger and Emery out. What can they say about Arteta?
So Dan, enough is enough then?
It would be lovely to read your take on what Kroenke should do.
Obviously the first thing he should do is get rid of the under performing manager and probably Edu as well and install who exactly?
I’d have no problem with Kroenke acting like Abramovitch, sacking managers right left and centre if we were winning the CL and league on a regular basis. No problem at all. The fly in the ointment is that we don’t. It’s no surprise to me to see the top managers working at the most ambitious clubs that have won multiple trophies. It’s what they do
You can complain as much as you like that things ain’t like they used to be but unless half a million fans march on the Emirates and fly planes around the stadium calling for the Kroenkes to go then what is the alternative? Persuade Kroenke to tease Klopp away from Liverpool?
Sue
What can Koronke’s do ?
Not slash the wage bill in January is a start
Hire a proven boss
Yes and maybe you might be in the CL and win the premier league if Stan was in it to win it and therefore did everything in his power to make us the best we could..
That simply hasn’t happened and why we are mid table (next season prediction) team.
If he had true ambition he would not reward a 5th/6th place. It’s as simple as that.
The bar has been well and truly lowered . Gone from invincibles to in/deflateables
Doesn’t make sense.
It has cost Kroenke millions, we have dropped out of the CL. Doubt he wants to pay that to get a bar lowered 😉
Some fans are so short sighted. We’re quite clearly headed in the right direction for the first time in a decade. Yes, I’m disappointed and frustrated too, but I’m so sick of the petty rage that stems from my generation’s need for immediate satisfaction.
“ We’re quite clearly headed in the right direction for the first time in a decade”
That’s debatable
Well, it isn’t true, so it’s not up for debate.
Here’s our final positions in the last decade and including this season.
3-4-4-3-2-5-6-5-8-8-5(?)
One can even argue that if AW’s awful last season was taken out, we have stayed still, then gone backwards and then, seemingly, are congratulating ourselves for getting back to 5th.
Alright Ken don’t make me look like a twat 😂
I cannot go full pelt these days as I get abuse from children and I have to hold my tongue.
But you have done it for me 👍so big ups .
We are heading in the right direction you say. Do you watch us play at all. Everybody that is using Klopp example at liverpool to justify Arteta incompetence clearly is having an agenda. Top 4 is not all or nothing for me. There are 3 outcomes of every football match and getting any one these doesn’t bother as long as you give it all you got. Is that the case with Arteta team no. And you think we are in the right direction. Arteta picking up fight with his players or discipline them and/or giving them away doesn’t make him a good coach ,because that is area where I think most of support is coming from, what his team does on the pitch is. We can finish 4th or 5th or in any position what matters most is his team has lost 13 matches already playing horribly just like last season. The position we are is deceiving and that tells a lot about our competitor.
Drayton, that is a matter of opinion. We are witnessing dire football played by pampered players and coached by a rather pathetic manager. I wonder if next season we are still playing this way will the fans keep attending to watch such dross.
So why were we not heading in the right direction when Wenger and Emery finished 5th ?
As for immediate satisfaction …..we last won the title nearly two decades ago
So I think we have been patient
@Dan
But that’s very disingenuous. Try to be as honest as possible by putting things in context..
Wenger came in and upped his and the club’s standards from 1996 to about 2006.. He came in and won 3 titles in those first 10 seasons and reached a CL final..
So he went from finishing 1st (winning EPL titles) to brainwashing / indoctrinating us that finsihing 4th is like winning a trophy. That’s a proper decline. Then even 4th place has become too hard for him to maintain hence we finished 5th and 6th consecutively..
Wenger was given about 25 years of complete control. Rumours were that he was even asked to be part of the team search, interview and appoint his own Director Of Football (Gazidis)..
Wenger was on the decline. Started off winning EPL titles to making unbelievable statements like I Paraphrase, “Finishing in the Top 4 is like winning a trophy””. To just stagnating in 4th place finish targets every season for more than 10 years. To finally dropping out of even his Top 4 trophy competition (Finished 5th and 6th consecutively in his last 2 seasons).
If you were trying to be an objective / honest interlocutor then you would not have made that wenger comparison.
Wenger was given 2 and a half decades. The likes of Emery / Arteta have been barely given 2 seasons by nearly the same doomer fans..
Here we go Goonster with your usual tirade of Wenger nonsense.
Of course, I won’t comment any further, as that’s deemed to be wrong.
@Ken
As long as the FACTS I state are there for all to see then I will keep countering your always one sided / dogmatic “Wenger did amazing” narrative.
You can refute it if you deem it all wrong and made up. Is there anything non factual about what I keep writing about Wenger’s 25 year tenure as Arsenal manager?
And no one deems your wenger tinted articles / comments as wrong. You state FACTS about him but your facts are always biased, you just provide facts that suit your dogmatic wenger slant. But the moment anyone provides the other side (Opposite FACTS) about him then you get all triggered and into your feelings as always.
You never refute the counter FACTS regarding wenger. All you do is play semantics. Again refute each and every FACT in stated about the other side of wenger that you always try to avoid addressing. Head in the sand kind of attitude..
Again, point out where I was making up things or where I was wrong.
25 years 3 titles, spent the second part of his tenture brainwashing us into believing that finishing 4th is like winning a trophy.
Refute my FACTS..
Goonstar, Wenger never said 4th is like a trophy. What he actually said, and it was on the official club website was that there at the start of the season there are 4 trophies. 1st was the PL. 2nd was the CL. 3rd was top 4 and the 4th was the domestic Cups.
So he said that top 4 was actually a trophy above the FA and League Cups 😡.
@goonster
You are right, but some still refuse to see, we were slowly declining in Wengers final 8-10 years. While other clubs had new managers with new ideas, we stuck with Wenger, and that is really where Kroenke has failed. All the rubbish about not spending is an invented myth, which has no facts in support.
We outspent clubs like Liverpool and Spurs for years and years, also under Wenger, yet they managed to not only catch us but to overtake us, and in Liverpool’s case, to leave us far behind.
Dan,
Is it Arteta’s fault if Arsenal haven’t won the league title in nearly two decades?
You always paint it as if Emery got sacked for being 5th.
That’s not what’s happened.
Arsenal were 8th when Emery was sacked, the club had not won in 7 games and he seemed to have lost the dressing took
By the time Arteta joined Arsenal we’re 11th half way through the season and in a big crisis.
11th Dan, not 5th.
That’s a massive difference.
So if man U finsih 8t then 5th that’s progress ?
Check the definition of progress online and it will answer your question.
Finishing 5th is better than finishing 8th, there’s an upward trend here.
You can argue that for a club the stature of Arsenal it’s too little progress, unsatisfactory progress, insignificant progress or call it whatever you like.
It’s your right as a fan to consider it’s not enough, that’s fine with me. But you can’t deny that the team has progressed this season in the EPL table compared to last season.
okay so if then finishing 12 th but the next year finished 6th
there’s an upward trend there ?
He was the guy who finished 8th
That’s like me doing shit at work but saying yeah but I was even shitter last year so technically im making progress lol
Exactly Dan.
That’s what the word progress means.
Progress or upwards trend does not mean good, it does not mean job done and it does not mean the manager should not be sacked. It just means better than last time. It can be better than last time but still be sh*t
Had Arsenal progressed this season from 8th to 7th I would have surely asked for Arteta to get the axe as this is well below my expectations even though there’s progress.
Now is Arsenal’s progress this season satisfactory?
This is where you and I have different options.
You consider this progress is sh*t.
I consider it’s encouraging enough to keep going with Arteta and see if he can take this team another step further next season.
At the end of the day you and I have the same ambition for Arsenal: 1st
I mean you and I have different opinion
@Dan is it that you can’t get the simple fact that Arsenal was 11th when he took over and kept us on 8th with an FA cup trophy.
He should be blamed by keeping us on 8th the following season but this season moving us from 8th to some touching distance of 4th shows progress albeit little.
Know this and know peace ✌️
Drayton – please change “we are quite clearly” to “in my opinion we are” because I can promise you that most supporters are not quite seeing it as “clearly” as you are!
Interesting to know how many that hounded out Wenger and Emery are cheering Arteta in 5th.
We were still in Europa league when Emery was sacked, same with Wenger.
Extraordinary to see the list of excuses roll out.
Buck stopping with manager no longer applies, some even accuse refs of cheating and corruption rather than admit Arteta’s mistakes. As if the league would turn a blind eye, just so Arsenal drops points.
What if no top 4 next year after 3 1/2 years. Accountability finally, or more excuses? Blame Arteta or the 16 or so new players since he took over?
Let’s see if it’s about standards or Arteta next year in May
Durand
If Kroenke sacked Arteta tomorrow, I’d want to think he was aiming really, really high. Arsenal had experience in both AW and Emery and the ‘hope it all works out’ in the case of Mikel. What next?
Ten Hag, who had experience managing and developing youngsters, would have been a good fit, but he is off to united.
Naggelsmann, who proved a young coach could build something with 2 teams, but he was off to Bayern.
Wonder if the club even talked to them or even considered them before Arteta. Shocked a club like Arsenal would gamble on a manager with no experience and who has built nothing.
On top of that, has the help of Edu, with the little experience he has as well.
Nothing ambitious about that, nothing about standards, just taking massive steps backwards and hoping for the best, with no evidence or support it could work with Arteta.
Meanwhile, spuds on their 3rd manager this year (Nuno, Mason, Conte) and sit in 4th by 2 points. Evidence that they moved until they got in a manager to take them forward. Meanwhile, we “hope” Arteta can. We finally get back to 5th, where we were when Emery finished his first season.
I would say, SueP, at least get us a manager who has a proven track record in winning and team management. Although I have nothing against him personally, he is obviously struggling to get the squad to listen to him and to follow is process (what ever that is). Even Vierra had the measure of MA.
Well
I thought Vieira would be a nearly man GunneRay but I’m surprised by him at Palace. Better than I anticipated for sure
I think my whole point is that Kroenke and his executive team seem content for now and my feelings are that Arteta will do better over time – which isn’t what most people want to give him. Not necessarily become another Klopp but still very good.
GunneRay, Vieira had the measure of Pep this season, so does that mean he’s better than Pep ?
The casual fan doesn’t fully appreciate how much our club would gain from hiring an elite manager.
First an foremost, he would bring his supporting cast of managers which normally include, trainers, fitness coaches, dieticians and a host of other specialists.
Second, he would require a financial commitment from our owner, upfront, to get all the players and resources needed to get back to the top; this would get rid of the ‘yes-man’ mentality. Token appointments too.
Third, a unique opportunity for the club to relearn the habits that need to be in place across all areas of the club to re-establish a winning culture. This would include player scouting and recruiting, player development, asset management and, of course, the academy. This is where I believe we have fallen short as a club over the last 10 years, at least. And, yes, I am including the latter half of the Wegner era.
We would be selling ourselves if we continue to expect miracles from the rookie; the job is too big for him. Time for Pochettino.
Ha ha ha ha HAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Pochettino who couldn’t win a cup with PSG? Pochettino who didn’t win a single piece of silverware with Tottenham? Are you insane or where you kicked in the head by a horse as a child?
Arteta won silverware in his first season as manager, which means he’s won more silverware than Pochettino has since he started managing Tottenham, a team brimming with “world-class” players.
This is the level of delusion you negative Arsenal fans subject yourselves to isn’t it? Just change to this manager or that manager and then Presto!! We win the league! These are the hopes of a child and the reasoning of mental hospital escapee.
Last year we outspent almost every club in Europe… you know what, I’m not even going to go through the trouble of rebutting your arguments point by point, logic and reason will clearly have zero effect….
Apparently, you don’t seem to know the difference between a real change agent and a token appointment, recruited specifically by a stingy owner to main the status quo. Arteta is just a low-cost version of a real manager, appointed to slash wages and keep our owners rich. All the talk about competing in Europe is just a pipe dream. Kroenke doesn’t care. You need to wake up, my friend….and stop drinking the Arteta Kool-Aid. Drink tea instead.
What you say makes no sense. Kroenke wants to make money, not continue loosing it on Arsenal. He has invested a lot, because he has no financial interest in seeing us continually out of the CL.
The idea, he should be happy/content with the decline is utter b……..
Good piece RF – you had me until “Pochettino” spoiled it. Nice guy, did a lot at Spurs but then become a serial bridesmaid and left the squad in a bad way at Spurs, so he’s not the answer for me.
Putting 4 past Chelsea isn’t entertaining?
Here’s an idea for Dan Smith. How about, after every lost game, we fire the manager and get a new one? Because that’s the only answer negative fans have – get rid of ______ and ______Out.
I guess real Arsenal fans detest seeing our academy products compete and outplay “world-class” footballers, and would rather we do like Manchester United and just buy the most expensive marquee players out there with no plan.
We all remember what a positive impact our negative fans have had: remember how they were protesting Wenger the year we came in 2nd and could have won the league? Of course the negative fans throwing shoes and vegetables at Sanchez and antagonizing the manager all the players loved, and unleashing massive torrents of invective at their own players and generally embarrassing themselves at every possible opportunity – cannot be to blame. When the results are bad, it has nothing to do with the fans. When the results are good, thank goodness the fans decided to show up and “support.”
The problem with Arsenal HAS been its fairweather fans, especially those at AFTV who made themselves rich dragging the club through the mud and chasing our greatest players and managers out the door.
If your answer to everything is negativity and your idea of “support” is undermining team morale and solidarity, please go “support” Tottenham where your stupidity will be of actual use to us. Thanks in advance 🙂
You are clearly missing the point! I (see I am personalizing it, don’t know about your own opinion) don’t want Arsenal to win all the time. I just want to see a frat game, even if we lose, at least we played. Did you watched EL final yesterday? Of course Rangers lost but they gave it heart. That is what I want, kt this boring games when if we concede first, we have lost the game. Ffs! Grow some damn balls!
You cited a game which was lost by according to you the better team now let me give you games Arsenal lost but played very well you can go rewatch the games highlight or check stats.
Arsenal 1-2 City
Arsenal 1-2 Brighton
Southampton 1-0 Arsenal
Man Utd 3-2 Arsenal
Arsenal 0-2 Liverpool
I can give you games we didn’t play well but got something out of the game
Watford 2-3 Arsenal
Brighton 0-0 Arsenal
Arsenal 2-2 Crystal Palace
Chelsea 2-4 Arsenal
Westham 1-2 Arsenal
Also there are games we were outrightly beaten
Brentford 2-0 Arsenal
Arsenal 0-2 Chelsea
Man City 5-0 Arsenal
Liverpool 4-0 Arsenal
Crystal Palace 3-0 Arsenal
Tottenham 3-0 Arsenal
Newcastle 2-0 Arsenal.
So one thing is certain you can’t win all games, there are some games you easily win while there are some you can’t stop the L from coming but what is important is not to dwell on the L but move on.
That to me was the mistake we made after we lost to Crystal Palace.
Real arsenal fans don’t like finishing 8th twice.
Chelsea was entertaimg sure ….spurs and Newcastle were not
That is an outrageous generalisation
I agree to an extent Stephan, but you are wrong to generalise on this one.
Yes there are a minority of supporters whose glass is ALWAYS half empty, and short of us winning the EPL and CL in the same season will do nothing but criticise, but there are a much larger number of us who have shown huge patience over 3 seasons and regularly (as in more often than not) praise both Arteta and the team. That in our opinion also gives us the right to question or criticise when the wheels appear to be coming off.
While I can agree with many of your comments, please do not imply that only people who offer no criticism can be true Arsenal fans. That is not fair to anyone who posts here, and your last paragraph Is particularly offensive.
Sue, who can we get?
Mancini (Won Cities first PL, Euros with less fancied Italy)
My writing got me to meet Mr Wenger ans gets most traction on this site Jon lol.
So I’m doing okay dude
And yes Jon
If he fails again to qualify for CL it’s a fact he’s failed what in his own words should be a exspectation for Arsenal
Prehaps Jon you like to offer a footballing argument of why you think he’s been a success .
Try without insulting peeps
Eg , tell us what you loved about Monday
No DAN I WILL NOT DO SO and Illl gladly tell you why not!. I will stick to MY subject, which is what I replied to your article about.
I will not – as you so often do – attempt to move the debate goalposts onto another subject.
I speak and use English correctly and as you are an English as first language writer, I WOULD EXPECT LIKEWISE FROM YOU.
My point and no other was PRECISELY that you confused “opinion” with “fact”.
It is entirely your opinion, as I DID NOT STATE IT, that you consider I think he has been a success. I think only that he needs more time to transform the mess which he inherited and given that Kroenke is an absent uncaring owner . That, IMO, is not succss so far and neither is it failure.
But those are not facts but just my opinions. You see DAN, UNLIKE YOU, I DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OPINION AND A FACT
I STATED CORRECTLY THAT THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS WITH TOTALLY DIFFERENT MEANINGS.
Why not answer my post, instead of attempting, though failing, to con me into accepting a debate on another and different matter. Eh DAN?
Why not answer your post?
honestly?
I think your a bully who has zero knowledge .
I let it go as i assume your very lonely and this is a form of attention for you .
Why else would you year after year interact with my articles if they were so bad ?
Your knowledge is shocking .
I said Arsenal would fail to make top 4 based on lack of leadership and weak mentality.
You watch Spurs and Newcastle fixtures and your forced to say I was correct, just like I was correct we would regress since Wenger left , just like I said it was a mistake in Jan not to replace Auba
Decisions’ you backed and were wrong about
So instead you get personal to deflect .
Problem is I will only interact with those who can make a footballing argument , once you get personal I stop reading
That’s why I don’t respond Jon
👍Dan.
You can take your English lectures somewhere else this is a football blog not an online English tutor class
It actually matters in the context of the argument
it’s not Sue
If he fails this season to finish top 4 it’s a fact that he has failed to get us in top 4 .
In his own words that was his target …so he has failed to reach that target
although we clearly have had our differences DS, there’s no doubting that what you’ve stated above has some considerable merit…I could speak for days on the manner in which the fanbase has been a complicit accomplice in the lowering of our organizational standards…of course, our descent started as soon as Dein was hastily escorted out of the building and Wenger was left to his own devices, albeit I’m sure we have differing opinions about this particular matter, but at least the Wenger love-in had some basis in reality, whereas the whole Arteta cult of personality narrative is totally PR-contrived and factual baseless…I can only assume that this cult-like behaviour is rooted in a variety of factors, like fan fatigue, following the divisiveness of the Wenger era, desperation, which can make some individuals incredibly vulnerable to suggestion and/or a general sense of helplessness, considering the general disinterest shown by our absentee landlord, so some felt that by jumping on the Arteta bandwagon it gave them some sense of ownership over the process, even if what was on offer failed the all-important “eye test”
Differences ?
Your a stranger on a football site who gives an opinion
people take things too serious
we’ve had more than our fair share in the somewhat recent past, so I felt it pertinent to make note of that so that others might realize that simply because we’ve butted heads at times doesn’t mean that we can’t agree on club-related issues…that’s all, nothing more, nothing less
I don’t look at it like that
Someone having a difference of opinion to me is not butting heads
if someone gets personal that’s different but I don’t recall you doing so
Couldn’t agree more RVL. I think the football equivalent of war weariness set in when Arteta arrived, abetted by a much better PR machine than was offered to the previous two managers.
I was one of many who WANTED to believe, not just for the obvious reason ie the success of my club, but because I was tired of trusting nothing would ever get fixed at the club.
Another great idea to introduce and keep mentioning “the process” (aka “the dream”). Ripping everything out not only means you have to start again, but doing so publicly means fans give you more time to rebuild.
Yes, it all started with the other shareholders selling out Dein for 30 pieces of silver.
And yes the fan’s complicit endorsement (or at least the lack of effective opposition to) what has gone on has greatly empowered board and management to continue or even ratchet up the process of turning us into a voiceless, anonymous mid-table US sports financial franchise, although to believe that forums such as this have seismically affected that process is giving us too much credit, methinks.
What is happening here is unfortunately now sweeping society. In the internet and media led society we now live in, truth and facts are neither important nor checked, lies are not punished, whoever controls the personal and public media and presents the minformation in charming bite-size pieces and with a straight face is believed and followed. Politics, business, wars, even sport. The morals have gone. Power, money and opinion control are our 1984.
I don’t respect a person who replies the way you do Jon Fox. You seem to try your best to belittle Daniel Smith. Dan’s a better man than you by a country mile. You do your best to bait Dan. To Dan’s credit he’s never fallen for it. The difference between you and Dan Smith, is that Dan has a more superior knowledge of football than you will ever have. Keep up the good work Daniel Smith, and bring on those great write ups. Like many of us here, we appreciate your common sense approach
If I wanted to, I’ve worked out I could be right 90% of the time if I decided to take a dump on all my favourite teams from all my favourite sports and simply say we they aren’t good enough to win anything.
Why just in the last twelve years my right- eousness would hover at almost 100%:
Arsenal have won a few FA Cups
Raptors won one title
Maple Leafs have won nothing
All Blacks have won one WC in the last three
Dolphins can’t even make the playoffs
Mikel Landa crashes out in almost every Grand Tour
I’d be right, but I’d be miserable. I don’t watch sports to be miserable.
based on your preferred teams, minus the ALL Blacks, some might suggest otherwise(lol)
Fair point. Well made. My 88 year old father who last saw his beloved Leafs win the Cup in ’67 would probably agree with you.
But sometimes a team chooses you.
equally being positive for the sake of it doesnt change the reality
But the way we choose to support our team isn’t reality is it? Your “reality” as an Arsenal fan isn’t the same as my “reality”. I’d argue that what you’re calling reality is more a choice.
I’m not being positive just for the sake of it. I’ve enjoyed the season, especially the development of the young players and I’m pleased we are back in Europe, even if the last few games have been gut-wrenching. I’m excited for the future. I’ve chosen the glass half full.
You’ve chosen differently – a shade more glass half empty. That’s your call and there’s nothing wrong with it. Different strokes and all that.
I agree dude
if your happy that’s great
Nice comments as always V. I flic-flac too much because this team’s so damned erratic! Normally I’m more full than empty, but after those last two performances I could strangle an ostrich.
But yes, this season has had more positives than the last (you remember it – ouch!). And I like the players themselves much more, which gives me a greater sense of connection.
Lol. I just imagined you strangle an ostrich!
Jon,
There’s no need to abuse people to make a point, however valid it may be.
Even though I disagree with Dan on pretty much everything except on Wenger, it doesn’t justify personal attacks
👍Legunner
Jon, English isn’t my native language but I have checked the definition of abuse.
Don’t you see any sign of violence or cruelty in your comment on Dan’s writing skills?
There are alternative ways to send the message across.
I strongly oppose Dan’s views on Arteta and the club’s situation but this site would surely be less interesting without his contribution.
If it’s the c word you’re referring to that just confirms my original post
Kronke has at least backed his horse, the big problem is he is misguided and not aware of what is needed to succeed in the Premier league. What wasn’t and isnt needed is a rookie manager with nothing at all to back up his judgement, the money being thrown at the “process” is being wasted because there isn’t a process. Top teams in the Premier league analyse the needs of a team and cure it quickly and dont chase invisible rainbows. We are on a road to nowhere and haven’t got a driver capable of taking us anywhere. The judgement of the Kronks is poor, hurting Arsenal and has done since day one. Everything he has done has been to the detriment of Arsenal football club and we have been in a downward spiral since, even to the point The Spuds are a more successful club in the Premier league and Europe than us. To offer a manager a new contract on the back of three defeats is astounding!!!!!!!!!!
One thing we have to know is that there are teams that have invested heavily and have very excellent players but they lack chemistry within there style of play, personally I was en am still very pissed off on how Arteta has lost players in Guendouzi, auba , en loaning of options in saliba, Niles. But one thing I have accepted is that he wanted to build chemistry, en stability in our style of play, people like Saliba will just come en glue it that’s what teams like City en Pool have done, teams like united en probably Newcastle will buy but if they don’t consider chemistry in the style of play they will remain in positions of 6 to 10
Let take another approach. This approach is bit working. Let’s stop beaten a dead horse and look for a living one to ride.
funny thing is one comment by Areta lover in article and all Arteta lovers jump onto it for reply in which all are praising him for his sense & logic. hahahaha
@Logic …. “Arteta lovers”?????
Grow up will you…
I hope the Kroenkes stay at Arsenal for many years to come. Great article Dan, your obviously a football fan that is not in denial, and I am obviously not a Gooner with my desire for the Kroenkes dynasty to run Arsenal for many years to come.
How much do they pay his family from the clubs coffers?