A whole new team but no improvement by AndersS
Just a couple of weeks ago, I argued it looks like we have improved, but the real test would be if we could perform better against Liverpool and Man Utd in the upcoming matches. I was confident that we would see some good signs.
As we all know, they were not there. We were as bad as ever, and to top it off, we now have delivered one of the worst performances of the season against Everton.
So how does that look with that improvement overall? Not good I am afraid.
The hard facts are, after 15 games we are lying 7th in the table, and compared to last seasons 8th, it must be deemed as status quo. If you try to look beyond the hard facts, and start judging on performances, it would be hard to argue there is any improvement at all. We are really struggling to create chances and score goals, and our defense isn’t that great either. In our matches against City, Chelsea and Liverpool, we generally seemed to be light years behind and more or less humiliated. In fact I almost see only one bright performance, our game against Spurs. That is not enough.
As it happens, last season we played Everton away on December 19th and lost 2-1. So 12 months on, we lost with exactly the same score, and to make matters worse, at a time when Everton was in their worst crisis for more than 20 years.
There is an interesting comparison in last years game away to Everton and this years.
Our starting line-up last year was:
Leno
Holding
David Luiz
Tierney
Maitland-Niles
Ceballos
Elneny
Saka
Pepe
Nketiah
Willian
Only 2 players from that team was in the starting 11 this year; Tierney and Saka. 9 new players in the team this year. And if you add to this that Tavares and Auba came on as substitutes this year, but didn’t play in the fixture last year, we actually had a new and full 11 man team playing this year. Might be some kind of record to change a full team from one season’s fixture to the next, and all within 12 months.
But what did it help?
I suggest, instead of changing the whole team for next seasons fixture, we might try changing something else?
AndersS
Arteta out. I
I think against Everton we all learned something we now know to be completely true. Arteta is factually not good enough. After two-ish years of mainly rubbish we now know for sure the water is too deep for him. Chelski and Spurs have bravely signed top managers, we are lifeless with a massive mistake….Arteta. Get Zidane. Spend the money….pay, and compete with Chelski and the Spuds. The Kroenke’s are back in the sights. This was as poverty struck, and shameful a display that I have seen. Act now.
Paying the manager big salary is not a problem for Arsenal. Arteta is paid £5 million a year. Which club in this world would have paid him even a 20% of that considering his complete lack of experience?
If we look at payment against performance Arteta is the highest paid manager in the EPL.
However I don’t think it is wise to sack Arteta now. If sacked it should have been at the end of last season. We don’t need to save a season now if we didn’t need to save the previous two seasons. A new capable manager should start three months before the new season.
The club should start to look for a long term replacement to take over right after the season end while at the same time giving Arteta a chance to prove that he deserve another chance by finishing in the top 4.
He can still do it. We were bottom at the start of the league but we we were off 4th place by goal difference just a week ago. He should look at what worked and stick with that. He can lose against big teams but he should beat the rest however unconvincingly.
Keeping to your two team theme.
The “A” The “Arsenal” team 13 players.
Includes all 6 new signings.
Ramsdale Tomi White Gabriel Tierney Tavares
Partey Lokonga Xhaka Odegaard ESR Saka Martinelli.
The “B” BAD Team. 16 players
Leno Chambers Cedric Holding Mari Kolasinac
Elneny Niles Auba Lacazette Pepe Nketiah
(Torreira Nelson Mavro Bellerin loan.)
Saliba and Guendouzie remain in purgatory.
Amazingly the 13 are doing well enogh to be top 6 contenders which was the goal at the start of the season.
In the summer hopefully we dump most of the “B” team players and sign 6 new players to the “A” team.
I totally trust the process.
We will get top 6.
100%
I haven’t seen anyone officially stating top 6 is the goal this year. No player, not Arteta, not anyone else representing the club.
Where is this top 6 goal from?
I agree, does Stan know our goal was 6th place after spending £240m and that he needs to cough up more for another 6 players?
GAI, You’re a complete clown
Referring to fairfan, not GAI
Freudian slip, but truthful either way dgr8xt…thanks for bringing some much-needed levity to my otherwise dreadful day
You make some good points, Fairfan.
Problem is the mob is out and they have set their sights on Arteta.
Fairfan, the process can be continued with a good manager, not a lesrning rookie. Dont forget that part of the process (the arteta one) is also to have brought willian, cedric soares, mari. It os also to play some player, freeze them for weeks, yhw play again without explanation and so on (nketiah, elneny, AMN…)… So yes i believe in the rebuilding of our team, they have done rather OK but someone can keep doing that and better. Ajax is a real process. Did you have a look at how they compete with way less ?
Despite how hard as a fan, you try defend Arsenal. Too often they prove all their detractors right and put themselves front and centre for criticism. Given Everton’s woes right now, you could’ve said they were ripe for picking and three points should’ve been in the bag. But it seems the reverse was true. Everton thought “I know we’re shite this season lads but, we’ve got arsenal tonight. Which is definitely three pointsfor us and disgruntled fans appeased”. We were awful yesterday. Allowed Everton to hound us in possession, were poor out of possession. Couldn’t put five passes together, no fight, not vbrave enough to try and win the second ball. Although still not the finished article. We look much better with our offensive players such as Tavares and Sambi-lokonga. At least we are on the front foot a lot of the time. Last night was a trip down memory lane. Slow, lacklustre and profligate football. With one tired old tactic in mind. Give ball to Tierney, let him cross and try to score. Okay, it worked on one occasion throughout the entire 90 mins but failed every other time as every team in England knows what we’re going to do! To be honest, no one comes away unscathed from that game last night. Individually they were all poor and collectively they were worse!
I think the players’ confidence in Arteta’s training and tactical system are currently low. We already have three managers since Wenger left and the results are getting worse, so I believe the way Kroenke runs his football club is wrong
For instance, Partey’s weekly salary is higher than Bruno Fernandes’ and Sadio Mane’s. Arsenal have obviously been pampering our senior players to make them sign in the first place and the players’ motivations have worsened due to London lifestyle/ the club’s leniency culture
Let’s talk about Liverpool as an example of what an ownership cultural change can do to a club. After around thirty years without an EPL trophy, FSG bought it in 2010 and Liverpool subsequently won EPL/ UCL ten years later
@gotanidea.
So Liverpool have “ONE” title in 30 years.
Arsenal won “FIVE” titles in that time.
What exactly is your point?
Since Kroenke increased his shareholding to 62.89% in 2011, we just won several FA Cup trophies. Whereas Liverpool won an EPL trophy and an UCL trophy since FSG took over
Yeah because Liverpool’s owners appointed Klopp as their manager instead of some mediocre rookie egoistic chequebooks manager Like Arteta
I don’t think Arteta is like what you describe. He just doesn’t have a long managerial experience
The way to judge would be to look at the last 10 years and the next 10 years and see who wins what? Yes, Liverpool have been in the shadows for a while but they are moving in the right direction. Arsenal have been heading south for years and still are! Arsenal can no longer be considered a big club purely based on what happened 20 years ago. That means nothing if they are failing every year since!
Fairfan Liverpool have won 2 Champions league titles and a UEFA Cup and 2 super cups in that time something Arsenal have never won, we can hardly compare ourselves to Liverpool who have a far better history than Arsenal!
Lol fairfan. Come on. I hope it is a joke. In the last years, Liverpool won a league title and an UCL. Of course they succeeded strongly in their rebuild. Who else today would say you can compare our two clubs ???!!!!! What dont you understand in his point ? They are today way ahead of us. And even if we included AW timeframe, dont forget that in the 2000s liverpool won UEFA (UEL ancester) and other UCL and a cpuple cups !!! They were not very lucky with titles though
gai your logic is confusing me, Kroenke has just sanctioned £240m on players that both Edu & Arteta selected so how is he to blame for poor results??? Or are you actually saying he put the wrong people in charge?
I have to respect both Abramovich and Levy, they would not have stood Arteta. To leave him at the helm till the end of the season is saying ‘we are defeated’. Watching my lifelong club mismanaged at every level is really sad. How any of you find that OK is beyond me. If you have a bad illness…..treat it, before it festers and causes long term damage. Arteta is not good enough. I wish him well but not at Arsenal’s expense. Take the lead Kroenke and fire him. We are a joke setup and it’s not the players.
“I have to respect both Abramovich and Levy, they would not have stood Arteta.”
Would they have hired an inexperience manager to rebuild the club in the first place?
HHero
Arteta has to go….this has gone on about two years. Its clear to see Arteta and Arsenal are not working out together. 2 years!!!!! Years!!!!!
Don’t you think at the end of the season will be better for that? A new manager will have time to know his players, a pre-season, clearing players who will not be in his plans and the whole window to bring some players who he think will strengthen the squad.
What will bringing a new manager now accomplish? It can save the season yes but it can also be the other way around.
We have already finished 8th two times in a row. What could be worse? Let Arteta continue until the end of the season where two things might happen: He may either finish in the top 4/6 or he may make it a hat trick of 8th and leave at the end of the season to consider a new strategy of his managerial career.
You can also lokk at it this way. Arteta is unlikely to accomplish anything better than 7-8’th, so we might as well try our luck with a new manager.
Yeah exactly AndersS it’s not likely to make a difference if we fall below 8th we certainly aren’t going any higher with peps cone man
My point is, it’s better to have a new manager at the end of the season so he can have time to shape the squad and implement his ideas.
A new manager now will have a lot of pressure to take us to the top again, with the players he is not familiar with and most importantly it will take a while for his tactics to deliver results by which time our rivals will be far ahead to have any chance of catching them. A new manager by the end of December won’t give us a chance at top 4 finish but with Arteta there is still a chance.
As bad as he is he knows the players and he has managed to grind out results some convincing others not.
Chelsea had instant success with changing to Tuchel mid-season last year.
Can we rule out Spurs and Man U getting an drastic improvement this year??
If others can do it, why not Arsenal?
Tuchel CL victory made it seem like he had a huge impact but he didn’t have an easy ride in the EPL. He barely got in the top 4.
We still are yet to see Conte’s impact at Spurs which lead me to my earlier point. Our new manager in January will be left far behind by Conte and others by the time his ideas take shape.
It’s better we have him after the end of the season.
But you can’t know that for sure can you HH? Do you know which manager will be appointed and if he’ll be an instant hit. You’re merely speculating. And your speculation can easily be wrong.
HH cc Thomas Tuchel, came in the middle of the season and won Chelsea the champions league. There’s no recipe for the right time to hire or fire a manager. A manager can be appointed before the season begins and still come up short as proven by emery and could come in mid-way and be a spark as proven more often than not. Cc Rangnick to Utd, conte to spurs, Gerrard to villa, Tuchel to Chelsea etc. There are more pros than cons in appointing a new manager mid season. Even Arteta benefitted from that by winning the FA Cup.
Your Emery example is a good one. I did not think of it that way. But then I don’t think Emery failed as in his abilities as a manager, he was failed by the players. Had he been supported on player discipline like Arteta has been supported things would have been much different.
If a new manager is brought in the middle of the season and doesn’t have an instant impact (which is more likely), what will be the point?
How many times we will say that we have seen worst performance of the season??
There is no limit for being worst performances under Arteta’s management
After every couple of week we say worst performance ever… worst performance ever..
On this platform itself before the game of Liverpool and Man Utd, there were articles getting post, how Arteta has improved us? How Arteta is the correct man to take us forward.
How can one say that Arteta has improved us especially witnessing his 2 years of mediocre performance with Arsenal?
Once again, high pressing has done us in. It’s become our kryptonite. We fold up I’m under it. And Mikel still hasn’t addressed it or found a solution for it.
Any manager worth their weight, has already copped into this. And I will have drilled their team in prep for when the come up against us…🤔
Hmmmn! Personally I’ve given up already on Arteta being the right manager for us. I’m just following their matches as a true gooner. I’m just waiting for the time when the right thing will be done; get a better management team.
Arteta’s team selections and tactical set up, followed by his in-game management and substitutions are 90% of the reason we not only lost but looked so pathetic and clueless.
That’s before you even consider how he can’t motivate teams to show passion and lack of fear both before and during games. Before you ask why he can’t coach his teams to combat the high press. Before you ask why so many players are deteriorating rather than developing.
All of our senior players – Auba, Laca, Partey, Pepe and Xhaka – are now disinterested, off form or simply not good enough. Why? A huge coincidence or the inability of Arteta to get the best from them?
I have serious concerns that he will ruin his good work in bringing in some great players by undermining their evolution and confidence.
Individually – Auba should not play, Odegaard is as slow and now as negative as Xhaka. None of Xhaka, Pepe or Xhaka’s styles suit this team as they cannot play at pace and their first thought is to pass backwards, often putting the receiver under pressure. Lokonga MUST start. if necessary ahead of Partey, and Martinelli is not as good as some fans seem to think he is. Players who are leaving don’t play. If necessary promote more kids. Passion for the club, willingness to learn and enthusiasm are to me more important now than experience. Drop Partey and let’s see if he can get his mojo back because he’s dire atm.
Ramsdale, White, Gabriel, Tomi, Tierney, Tavares, Lokonga, ESR, Sakha, Saliba – the only 9 players I totally trust to carry this club forward. Possibles are Martinelli, Partey, AMN, Balogun and Ode if they can get their acts together.
Target fourth but realistically the best we will get with Arteta is top 6. And he won’t leave this season so it is what it is.
Well said!
Auba, Laca, Xhaka and Pepe are Currently the Problem of Arsenal!
They are like Boil in a Man’s Armpit!😒😄
We should give these 4 Players Lesser Matches!
Find a Way to Motivate Nketiah, Martinelli, AMN,etc to Put in Beastly Performances!
Games like these should be won. Arsenal is still ready to challenge Top 4 this season. Maybe next year will have a better chance.
We need pure striker who have flair and deliver goals. Big clubs with better goal scoring records are in the top league mostly.
Nevertheless I hope the lads can pick it up and move on.
MA better have some plans n tactics to even the next critical matches.
So if you read to yourself what you wrote there….. then maybe you will realise why you are banned…..
I have stated more than once, after all the changes, the players he has inexplicably ostracised, the money he has spent and the time that he has had, we are no better and he had not improved us. We do have some very good players but Arteta hasn’t clue how to set them up and play them. We have wasted 2 years on him and we are not finished yet.