Arsenal are back on top of the Premier League once again after hammering Brighton 3-0 this evening at the Amex Stadium.
Arsenal started the game quickly and could have taken a swift lead, but Gabriel Magalhaes headed wide from a Martin Odegaard free kick as the Gunners showed they meant business.
Minutes later, Bukayo Saka cut inside after a stunning through ball from Ben White, but the attacker surprisingly bent his shot wide.
Bart Verbruggen was then forced into a good save from Gabriel Jesus moments later as Arsenal began to take the initiative.
Brighton always looked dangerous when they had possession, but all the chances fell to Arsenal in the opening 22 minutes.
The Gunners kept finding chances, but their shots were always blocked or Brighton defended well to force them back.
However, a struggling Tariq Lamptey soon felled Gabriel Jesus and Arsenal had a penalty and a chance to open the scoring, which Saka converted coolly.
A dangerous ball in from White could have been converted by Kai Havertz for Arsenal’s second, but two Brighton defenders collided to clear it.
Gabriel then left the pitch in an injury scare for the Gunners; it was temporary, but it gave Enciso the chance to test David Raya with a stunning piledriver from outside the box. The keeper punched it out for a corner.
Brighton was growing into the game, but Arsenal remained the dominant side and allowed the Seagulls almost no chance to create something good.
The Gunners could have had a second immediately after halftime, but Jesus headed a fine Havertz cross wide.
Julio Enciso continued to cause problems for the Gunners and looked the most likely player to score for the home side, but his volley at the edge of the box went wide.
It was Arsenal who would then score the next goal as Havertz converted a fine cutback by Jorginho.
Brighton lacked the cutting edge to trouble Arsenal and they enjoyed a sustained spell of possession after the Gunners’ second goal. But Arsenal defended deep.
When the Gunners won possession back, they broke immediately, and Leandro Trossard nearly enjoyed a goal-scoring return to his old stomping ground, but his shot was saved.
Brighton kept looking for their first goal of the game, and William Saliba was shown a yellow card for dissent.
After a sustained spell of pressure from the Seagulls, Arsenal stole possession and broke as Havertz set up Trossard, who ran from his own half to score the game’s third goal and settle the score for Arteta’s side.
Rice could have extended the lead further from another break, but he could not find the back of the net.
Brighton thought they were going to get a goal back, but Gabriel blocked spectacularly and celebrated with his teammates afterwards as Arsenal held on to win yet again in 2024.
Great win. Seriously big win away at Brighton is awesome. So happy today
Now we need a little help from Utd lol
But good job boys
I’m proud 👏 of you
COYG!!!!!
Arsenal kept cleansheet in 5 consecutive away matches since 97. Arsenal have been shattering so many records since the start of last season and yet we are to taste any trophies. We are in form of our life and yet our opponents are not far behind . Despite playing so well we are waiting for others to lose points but no team is ready to give up easily making this most intriguing title race ever.
Another clean sheet from the outstanding Arsenal. The other title contenders have easier fixtures, but we’ll keep trying till the season ends. COYG
Good win in a difficult fixture
Didn’t think I’d ever be supporting ManU in my life
Want to see the same energy from a couple of particular posters in criticizing Havertz last game versus City and using a single to judge a player’s overall quality. He was man of match but today but im also not going to go over the top and say he is the best striker in the PL and his world class and so on.
Just be more balanced and watch the game for what it is without any agendas and bias.
He has played over 40 games for us thus season. What is thinking process went behind you saying I judge him on one game?
Today’s performance is what is EXPECTED, not WISHED or BEGGED from the highest paid player.
I do not expect such performance from him every game, but it should be the norm from him.
I will not stop judging him based on his cost and wages. Even more so when people who give him leniency citing “wages and transfer fee should not be used to judge a player” had their swords out to Ozil on a weekly basis BECAUSE OF HIS WAGES COMPARED TO HIS PERFORMANCES.
I do not approve of double standards and will not stay silent when I see one.
Why are you obsessed with Harvertz’s salary?. Arsenal offered him a salary and he accepted it. Move on.
Exactly. And he has no control over the fee, the clubs and agents decide that.
Lots of players freeze up because they think they have to live up to a fee or a salary and it’s fans and the media who create the pressures. Any real fans should learn not to do that.
Havertz performances need to be good in the context of what is expected of someone playing for the Arsenal club. Nothing else.
He has overcome the pressures, credit where credit’s due.
Hats off to Harvetz, he bossed today and no questions about his salary if he can put on this type of performance every two out of three games. Couldn’t say the same thing about his impact against Luton though where I thought he was simply ok and faded quickly.
People was crying over auba salary but auba was miles ahead of havertz. We need to call a duck a duck. If we brought palmer half the price I would have been content 9 goals was shit that got giroud hated sorry to say.
Well said bro. As far as am concerned Havartz hasn’t done anything to justify the praises he’s getting here. Did you watch Watkins yesterday scoring two goals from two half chances.
Spot on buddy!
Wrong.
You are wrong.
One beg, Beg someone to perform. Not EXPECT.
You don’t expect but beg. Learn the difference.
PRICETAG 😳
Is that as low as you can go?
I can go further…. Don’t!
My argument is.
You don’t pay HAVERTS to come and pay the price for what he was paid for. You expect him to produce what you saw in him. If he can’t do it,on that day, then it’s fine. Maybe next time. He tried. Today is an example.
Do you expect the guy to PERFORM, every game?
Being the highest paid player in the squad brings about the expectation he should regularly be the best player in the squad. That’s simple logic, and also what the players around him will start to question which could massively affect the team should they expect his wages also.
Whilst he scored and got an assist, albeit not the hardest of opportunities, he regularly slowed down play, fluffed his control, his decision making wasn’t great for the most part but he’s got an in-form team around him constantly providing for and supporting him. He’s definitely growing as a player at Arsenal, which is great, and I’d love to see him become an incredible player for us. However, right now he isn’t, so can we please stop this whole ‘he’s amazing, you just don’t get it’ or the ‘he’s the worst player ever’ time-wasting conversational bilge.
The truth is, he’s starting to inconsistently do well in a team that’s doing very well, impressive considering his versatility but somewhat underwhelming considering his wages and experience – it’s that simple, the stats back that up, the average pundit approach backs that up, watching him play nearly half a century of games backs that up.
Why has our fanbase always got to split itself with such a lack of respect for itself? C’mon Gooners, either accept the rational or appreciate you hold a bias 🤦🏽♂️
Halfhurtz.
That only seems “logical” to people who do not understand how market forces work.
Other player response had got nothing to do with ‘market forces’, it’s just simple logic. If you go to a job and work twice as hard or are twice as efficient as other staff you’ll either understandably push for a raise/bonus/promotion or choose to move elsewhere. If the rest of our team regularly outshines Havertz they’ll eventually either want the same pay or to go somewhere they feel valued. Were it a case that Havertz guarantees huge shirt sales, brings in revenue in other means (endorsements, image rights etc), we could begin to discuss the relevance of market forces, but a player like Kai isn’t in that bracket. Kai and his agent discussed a wage he’d feel comfortable with, then the agent approached the club with their demands, that’s how transfers work. This idea the player has no idea is just some fantasy players’ want you to believe as its better PR than the truth which is simply, they want as much money as possible and they don’t care if it comes from the supporters. I’m not saying they’re evil but to act like they’re saints just floating around reluctantly taking millions a year is sadly beyond naive and adheres too much to the player’s PR team’s desires.
If you want to delve into market forces I’m more than happy, I attained a degree in economics twenty seven years ago, then followed that up with a Masters in 2018, and I’ve had papers on econometrics and microeconomic theory published in the last 6months to help me qualify for the Phd course I start in autumn, or do I not understand how ‘mArKit FuRcIss wErk’, Mr Internet? 🤦🏽♂️ Economically and buisness-wise speaking, Arsenal handled the Havertz transfer atrociously, they showed they had no alternative, they offered over 30% more than the closest offer and had no reason to offer such high wages to a player who Chelsea were desperate to get off their books during a period where they had to sell. I love Arteta and Edu, and have big hopes for Havertz and like that he’s improving but even a first year economics or business student would’ve been bewildered by Arsenal’s approach to that transfer. We created an excessive demand for one easily available player that only we were willing to pay to bring in. Honestly man, you’ve just shown you’re the one who knows nothing about market forces by skipping straight past two of the core principles of that, which is demand and availability 🤦🏽♂️
The big difference between the performances of Ozil and Havertz is that one of them gives 100% in every match, chasing , harrying, attacking, defending and doing as much as possible for the team, whilst the other did sweet FA !
GB 🎯
Could not agree more!
A.) your salary assumptions are 100% wrong and based upon the very most ridiculous reports that way as if he’s on more than RIce who cost 100 mil never mind Saka and the problems that would cause. Grow up.
B.) Tsamina mina, eh, eh
Waka waka, eh, eh
£60m down the drain
Kai Havertz scores again
There will always be people with agendas. Bias is inevitable.
As for those who were after Havertz and relentlessly criticised him: egg on face and humble pie is due.
I happen to think havertz has been brilliant for us this season (after an understandably slow start) but I wouldn’t say calling him the best striker in the pl is a balanced/unbiased view.
I can see why people don’t find him convincing, but what I like about him is his cleverness without the ball and his attitude to keep looking for ways to get an advantage.
A really good post
? Missing the fact that our last game wasn’t City but actually Luton, a game where Havertz was underwhelming, and that was a game where he really needed to get us over the line but didn’t. Thankfully ESR did however. Not bashing Havertz as I think he’s pretty decent but let’s not drink too much of the coolade yeah? Havertz is starting to do well, which is great, and it looks like he’ll get better, but doing a ‘Ah, i told you so!’ post is way, way too early. The people overpraising him can be just as detrimental as those harshly judging him. We need him to keep improving, thats not even up for debate. Whats more, our best players today were the ones who kept a cleansheet, as otherwise we were a tad underwhelming. But because of this annoying love/hate split in our fanbase regarding Havertz they’re not getting the attention they deserve because there’s too many folks focusing on one player!
What you are missing is that Havertzgot ripped to shreds at the beginning.
So what we are seeing is a player who is now responding after a slow start and most people are just pleased for him at a personal level and that helps the club overall. There is no question that there are other players on the pitch who perform very well week in and week out and get the plaudits then.
Why shouldn’t Havertz take a bow this week?
You can’t scapegoat when you are winning.
I havent seen anyone saying we lost because of him.
I don’t like this twisting words to drive home agenda as I have seen the whole gang doing it in the thread.
A really odd comment. As SueP points out Havertz has played well in some recent games. The game against Brighton was one of his best and he has quite rightly been praised for it.
So why do you seem to find this objectionable?
“Happy with Havertz performance. That is what a huge transfer fee and astronomical wages should give us on a regular basis”
That is my first comment about Havertz after the game. Where is objection in that?
I see you gang up on me unsuccessfully and ignore my posts that doesn’t suit your agendas. Just like you all ignored my reply to Sean on 9.56pm because it’s against your agendas.
Shame on you all. Playing dirty to smear my name. You fail one on one and still fail as a gang.
HH
I frequently respond to you – and you to me – and because of your frequent posts – often pretty critical, tend, therefore , to read your posts in a different light. You have done the same to me over the years particularly in the early years of Arteta. I felt ganged up on as well
You did indeed post positively last season from time to time. This season you have, whenever there is a sniff of a change in fortunes reappeared after long absences and more often than not, refrained from posting when we had played absolute blinders . Most people are thrilled to respond to a 6-0 win! But not you.
You have had a bee in your bonnet about Havertz recently I described your recent posts about him as borderline scapegoating- which you replied to and unsurprisingly disagreed with. Perhaps i have misused the word but I felt you were unnecessarily picking on Havertz at a time when there’s an undeniable improvement in his confidence and play and you based your view purely on his earnings.
You compared the situation to that of Ozil who was an established and senior player who, imo, had an attitude which Arteta must have had as one of his non negotiables. One of the reasons Emery lost his job was because of the dressing room. The board, it appears , chose to back Arteta and look at the difference
So Havertz is not an established player? How irresponsible then (and I say this for the second time to you) for the board to award such a contract to unestablished player.
We have had our differences in the past but I have been enjoying our debates which are always in disagreement and are part of my highlight on my JA time.
But I have never fully trusted you because I do not appreciate the underhanded tactics used by the same people all the time to smear my name, twisting what I say, ignoring and burying anything I say that might paint me in a picture not intended etc…
Isn’t it very strange that everytime I post my opinion about Havertz or Arteta there is always a gang after me?
As far as I am concerned all of you are not related to Arteta and Havertz nor benefit from them in anyway. So why bitter and vicious when I criticize them?
There can only be one answer, those who are after me all the time do not like it the way I expose their hypocrisy. Nothing more nothing less.
Herd mentality on this website HH ,same 6-7 posters who will only post once one of the others as started off .
You see it with Dans Articles .
Like I always say hold your own as the older posters know that you are a true Arsenal fan .
Don’t let them get to you .
You have given an opinion,and that’s you’res alone ,their opinions are no more valid than yours .
They are just opinions.
Hi Dan.
You made a very disingenuous statement there. Surely there is ALWAYS going to a first poster!
Thank you for your reply HH
I took a lot of the unpleasantness lobbed at me and the few who posted positively regarding Arteta badly as well as you feel that you have been targeted too.
I hope that you don’t think our debates have been personal. It’s just that we have very different opinions so I can’t help it if I fundamentally disagree with your view on Havertz based on his income. You have had those who support your opinion and I feel there is nothing further to add as you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe
Some were extremely personal towards me and one person in particular was about as bad as it gets and has to my knowledge never been back. It was disgusting and had nothing whatsoever to do with football – just our hatred.
Post 2008 one my best friends who is an Arsenal fan lost trust and developed an intense dislike of Wenger while I kept on loving Wenger.
We always had heated debates on how Wenger is holding back Arsenal (his views) and how we are very lucky to have him (my views) nearly on a daily basis.
It came to the point of him accusing me of putting one man above the club and me telling him he is a trophy hunter and he would have been more suited to support Chelsea.
Everytime we lost I avoided him and he hunted me to give me the customary “I told you so” and I did likewise whenever we won.
I was unfortunate enough to watch the 8-2 defeat with him and to this day I have never seen a man so enraged. He was so enraged that I didnt say anything to him and avoided him for weeks.
To Wenger’s last day he didn’t change his views about him (which he still hold) and I didn’t change mine.
Despite all that he is very dear to me as I to him. It’s all part of being passionate about the club each in his way and own views.
It’s never personal.
I like it when you hold on to your views and I to mine and we go at it forever everytime one is proven right over the other (which will keep changing because of the nature of the sport).
I don’t hold ill will towards everyone but I will call out hypocrisy and will not hold it against anyone calling mine.
In the end I have a go at Havertz or Arteta or Nketiah not a single person here. Why would anyone take it personally? Why not counter argument with argument?
No one has countered my argument that Havertz is not worth 300k a week rather have gone a personal attack route.
Now now HH they are not hypocrites just because they have a different opinion mate
Now now Pat jumping on the bandwagon yourself ,as for your post to me was that a question or are you telling me (!) ?
HH Gave his opinion,seems to me that you have some favourable posters going by you own post ,thought this was a site that posters were able to contribute without being ganged up upon .
HH is a fan who as been on here for as long as I can remember,and I respect his views that is why I will always back him up even if I don’t agree with his posts ,just because I cannot stand bullying types as you well know .
Dan.
Don’t accuse me of anything. I am being referee. As I said NO ONE is a hypocrite just because they disagree with your opinion. That is bordering on an insult.
And my post to you was also totally and literally correct and in no way was indicative of me taking a “side”
You KNOW I only Interfere when
people start the insults.. and it annoys me when we are all fellow fans
And JEEZ we are now clearly top of the league with a few games to go and all I’m seeing is historical bickering….
HH
Havertz is not an established player AT ARSENAL. Ozil was at the time SueP was talking about.
The meaning was blindingly obvious (to anyone who isnt desperately looking for something to cling on to).
Thank you Dan Kit. You have my respect and always will even though we have disagreed on many things.
Unfortunately Pat you have let some think they can bully anyone into being a sheep by not condoning their behavior.
I was not happy with Havertz signing and still is. I think he is being carried by his teammates. That is my opinion the way I see things.
Why should some take it personal and come after me? Are they Havertz or Arteta PR department? What does my views on Havertz have anything to do with them? What affiliation do they have with Havertz?
Is JA on North Korea or England? What happened to free speech?
Can we go back and see the ones ganging up on me views on Xhaka, Ozil and Aubameyang?
Oh HH I do not let anyone bully anyone. I let you all get on with it until people get abusive or…. frankly boring.
And right now I think this bickering has gone on too long for my liking.
Everyone has clearly made their various points. So can we start enjoying being top of the league?
Great and intensely personal post HH, which itself made your post all the morr worthwhile and interesting.
Would you not accept though, as I’ve been saying to anyone I meet who will converse seriously with me – not only JA either, in fact JA is a very small part of my general conversations with all sorts of people in all walks of life about how we humans are and what our common nature is – that HYPOCRISY is a normal and natural part of our shared condition?.
it is virtually impossible, while being a normal human, to avoid SOME DEGREE of personal hypocrisy?
HH
I don’t see anyone attacking you personally, I only see you trying to claim that. And I see you insulting other people while you are making these claims (see above – your last paragraph is unnecessary and insulting to everyone who happens to disagree with you, even though they have been as polite as possible).
The simple fact is that a lot of people disagree with your view – almost everyone – and they are politely pointing that out. You are annoyed by the fact that people don’t just disagree, but they also see no sense in your position.
“ripped to shreds”? Why do people use such over the top phrases to justify their points? Half of the fanbase were excited by his arrival, a quarter weren’t but were willing to wait and see and the other quarter were much more sceptical. A small number were hateful, thats a sad part of society who need to be dealt with appropriately, but they are to most players at dome point and I saw nothing close to being ‘ripped to shreds’ on here. I’m not saying Havertz shouldn’t get praised for a solid match, I’ve said nothing of the sort so I’m not sure why you’d say that. My point is, and continues to be, why must we put so much attention on Havertz every damn game when there’s others who are genuinely putting in world class performances, namely our defence who are breaking records, yet here we continue to suffer the love/hate extremists in our fanbase. Look for yourself, after every game there’s a huge number solely focusing on Havertz and failing to mention the brilliance of others.
Thank you for your reply
I can assure you that there were multiple posts weekly berating Havertz’s performances – or perceived lack of them so I would stand by my ‘ripped to shreds’ comment.
At no time do I recall that other players weren’t given credit for their endeavours. Some might say that Saka was off his game on a particular day, or moan that Arteta didn’t bring ESR on as a substitute. There has been fulsome praise of the solid defence, etc etc. Of all the players in the team week in and week out , Havertz was regularly singled out
I don’t understand why you associated my original post to you as you ripping him to shreds. I’ve never read a post of yours before. I do agree with your assessment that there was a mixed bag of views on KH but hardly a soul came out in support. I kept my powder dry because I thought he needed time to settle.
‘Berating’ is quite a bit different to saying ‘ripped to shreds’, wouldn’t you agree? HH is getting stick for using terms such as being ganged up on, so if you and others are saying he’s overreacting, wouldn’t using phrases such as ‘ripped to shreds’ also be considered overreactive?
And I’d add that Raya, Tierney, Nelson, Nketiah, ESR, and many others have received such silliness in this hotbed of extreme angles in either loving or hating players. I honestly think people at both ends are lost to the significance of rational assessment. Every time a player gets mentioned people have to have the most ott opinions, instead of acting rationally, or act as though they’re on some magical wavelength they share with Arteta, or somehow know far more than him. I understood it when we went through bad patches as negative emotions are high then, but we’re currently on track to possibly win the league… yet we still have such bias that a player can put a solid 6/10 performance in and a bunch of folks want everyone to believe it was a 9 or 10, and others act like it was a 1 or 2. Havertz was equally singled out by those desperate to act as though he’s the next Ronaldo, which probably riled those at the other end, and vice-versa.
I didn’t associate it as you thinking I was ripping him to shreds, it was in relation to you asking why Havertz shouldn’t take a bow this week, I never said he shouldn’t, it was just we’re all (now) overlooking what several bodies are doing at the back.
Very much liked your final line 👌🏼 I rarely comment here or recognise commenters so if it is that you stayed quiet until you formed an opinion then that’s something many of ys should learn from 🙂
@Halfhurtz
It’s pretty obvious knowledge but you can’t say it without being ganged up by 5 to 6 people anytime you bring that point.
To make you understand their mentality, these are the ones who ganged against anyone who criticized Ramsdale’s performance last season and funnily enough they now will come after anyone trying to defend Ramsdale.
Whether a player is good or bad it has to come from them. Others are not allowed. So don’t be surprised if Havertz lose favour with the boss how they will throw him under the bus too and good luck to anyone who will try to defend him then.
A goal and and assist from Havertz…
60 million down the drain, Kai Havertz scores again…
@ HH…… Nobody is ganging up against you is just how you feel…. Here is the truth, you’ve negative opinion about some players and you remain firm on it even when the results is positive and the players in question are very much part of the positivity. Though I love the fact that you remain firm on your opinion but the timing means your opinion is going to generate more opposing opinions than supportive simply because of the results. You’re not the only one who harbor the same opinion but they won’t reveal it now they’re waiting for the time when result is not positive then they’re going to come out in numbers to have a go at the players they’re having problems with in the team and that’s the time comment like yours will generate more supportive opinion.
Moreover , this is an opinionated forum so you don’t expect everyone to agree with your opinion and this is not the best time to show negative opinions….. I knew we still have fans that’s not OK with the manager himself but they can’t call him out now without attracting outrage of opposing opinions so they’re waiting for the right time but I must admit I love your type that will stand by their opinion even against the odds because it’s your right but not everyone will agree with it and it doesn’t mean they’re taking personal…. I believe you understand that.
Another rock-solid performance, conceding nothing and difficult to create chances against. Arsenal is champion material, now we need to finish the job 🔴⚪️
Now the Havertz haters will not have anything to talk about this week Havertz man of the match awesome,Zinchenko was the only player who seemed to struggle today but hopefully he will still come good.
A brief but accurate summary in my book👍
Kwior must be wondering what he has done wrong; however hopefully being rested for Bayern Munchen.
Havertz could’ve had more assists today if Jesus was clinical. For it was his best game in an Arsenal shirt, not only he scored but he was so creative today. Well-deserved MOM.
I loved how Arsenal players celebrated the clearance by Magalhaes, at 3 nil up and the game already won but they defended like their lives depended on the clean sheet.
Llama…that is a top comment 👌
I am so happy with today’s performance as I had feared Brighton might just be the team to end our title hopes.
It shows the likelihood of bottling it again if our rivals slip is very slim.
Happy with Havertz performance. That is what a huge transfer fee and astronomical wages should give us on a regular basis.
Can you just give it a rest already? It’s not as if the wage comes directly from pocket. Enjoy the performance and quit lamenting about fee and wages
No Angelo, he can’t
I’ve had plenty of to and fro with HH on the subject to know that at present the scant praise offered tonight was huge progress
I will not give it a rest just as most Havertz apologists did not give Ozil a rest. As well as Nketiah, Pepe etc……
Why one rule for them and the other for Havertz?
If wages shouldn’t be a concern that mantra should have been for all Arsenal players.
HH, you have a very good point regarding the salaries of Ozil, Aubameyang and Havertz, but it’s not going to solve anything is it?
I take the position of not talking about Ozil and Aubemeyang anymore, unless claims are made that are false about either of them… that’s the same way that I react to Arsene Wenger claims.
I see that you are enjoying the football we are playing, along with the results and if others want to keep dragging up the past, let them get on with it.
Ken in this case I am the one who brought up the past.
There was a time when Havertz was looking to be a bad business when some said we shouldn’t judge him based on his salary and transfer fee.
Most of them were the ones very vocal against Ozil and Aubameyang salaries compared to their performances.
It’s not about results or enjoying our fortunes right now but all about reminding some of their double standards.
If wages mattered regarding Ozil, Aubameyang, Nketiah and Nelson, they should also matter regarding Havertz.
HH, it really doesn’t matter if others have double standards, as long as you don’t – and it is obvious that you don’t.
That should be enough to allow you to enjoy the football now on show at our club.
Don’t let others spoil it for you and visa versa my friend.
You are telling me this for the second time Ken. It’s time I heed your advice. Thank you.
And I do really enjoy our football. More than I have done for a long time since last season.
I know HH and you are a real passionate Gooner with your own opinions – long may it continue.
1st Ken you don’t know Havertz wages and 2nd it’s not double standards you and HH and the ones beating the drum no one else. If you are serious you became exactly what you hate congrats you can join the Lee gunners of the world who hated on Ozil and news flash still hate.
are* not and
Angus, before you criticise me personally, you should know your facts.
I have been a supporter of Havertz from day one.
No one gave him more backing than me when the slogans such as “another chelsea reject” etc were bandied about before we had even signed him – so that’s the FIRST thing you’ve got wrong.
Secondly, of course I don’t know what Havertz earns, did you know what Ozil earnt? The market place generally agrees that his basic salary is between £280 – £300,000 a week and that he is Arsenal’s top earner at this moment in time.
Thirdly, I didn’t hate Ozil, which you seem to believe I did.
The season he signed for us, we started winning trophies again and haven’t one won one since he left.
Hopefully this is about to change.
The double standards come from those who criticised Ozil’s perceived salary, but see no reason why Havertz’s reported salary shouldn’t be … simple really!!!
You either have a bad memory with regards to my support of Havertz, or you haven’t even read my posts.
You’re right Ken1945 about us not winning anything since Ozil left. He was still on the books though and not picked for the FA Cup winning team in2020 so it’s not as if he was contributing to that victory although he must have played in the rounds before the final?
@Sue, My memory tells me that the FA Cup rounds ddn’t start till after the Covid hiatus, which was when he was exiled (could be wrong)
Admin Pat, he played in the 3rd round when we beat Leeds.
go to bed HH
may be you might wake up
Ozil was a lazy scum artists that was stealing a living at Arsenal. He tried to destabilise Arsenal football club from Emery’s time to Arteta’s tenure. He absolutely offered nothing to us after he was rewarded that £300,000 a week contract.
Havertz is trying and keeps trying to help us get back to the Top as a club. While loony Ozil just wanted to pull us down. Did the same with Germany, Fenerbache and Istanbul Basaksehir.
So can’t compare a mischief maker (Ozil) to a humble young man like Havertz that is in the fight to help challenge for the title.
There is no comparison. And Havertz has contributed a lot to our title chase.
One was a parasite while the other is a humble young man doing the best he can to help Arsenal become a serious club once again.
I think you cannot get past the Wenger days and don’t want to accept the fact that Arsenal that time was truly specialist in failure. Spending millions and millions to take team backward just what happening to manu and Chelsea at present. You can’t compare team whose greatest overachievement was to play Champions league with the team that is fighting for 2 biggest trophies out there. Nomatter whats the transfer fee or wages most important thing is to integrate all players in the team and make them play as a cohesive unit and get the best out of them. Now just think if Kiwor or Tomiyashu are in the least wages of all then can they have mentality that they can make mistakes week in week out as they are not paid well enough. All the players should feel their responsibility and give it all to make a winning team. If they start playing according to fees and wages then it will be a very laughing stock team and so does your most of the comment looks like a laughing stock.
Don’t understand these nonsense comparisons between Ozil and Harvetz. What do the two have in common except that they are both on decent salaries and are German internationals. Harvetz was man of the match against Brighton but hopefully this is just the beginning and he can help take us all the way. He works hard but there are things he is simply not capable of doing which Ozil could make us look easy. Why is it so easy for so called fans to overlook his key role in Arsenal’s winning three FA Cup in four years. Whet could Wegener’s team have achieved had they had a defensive spine of Saliba, Gabriel and Rice instead of the likes of captain Kos , the mad hatter and Xhaka? Harvetz is now a crucial part of a team on the cusp of great things but isn’t it too early to crow?, especially after one solitary stand out performance.
HH
Ozil & Aubameyang were not the same. The fans had a problem with those two because played well until they got big pay rises then they downed tools and became a problem. No-one knows why.
Havertz is not in the same position. He is trying his best . So whatever money is sloshing around related to his contract, that’s the key difference.
As long as he’s doing his best, he is def not in the same category as Ozil and co.
And what is the measurement of who is working hard and who is not?
There have to be a threshold we can all agree upon not just yours and the gang opinions imposed as a fact.
How did you measure Ozil was not working hard and Havertz is?
You are kidding right?
If you cannot accept that Ozil was a problem child after he got the big money contract then you really are running out of things to say.
Neutral, can you explain to me why MA was regularly selecting Ozil right up until the football World was stopped due to the coronavirus?
This included our twelve game undefeated run in the PL leading up to the pause referred to above and after he had signed the big money contract you talk about.
During the time between calling off and then starting the PL again, certain things happened at the club.
1. The players were asked to take a pay cut, said to help keep the jobs of 50 odd back room staff.
2. It was reported that three players refused to agree to that and Ozil himself identified his reluctance to agree, until assurances were given as to exactly where and how the money would be used.
3. Ozil got involved with a political situation in China, resulting in the Chinese government boycotting Arsenal matches on their TV networks.
4. Gunnersauras was one of the 50 plus people mentioned in point 1 who, despite the players accepting their paycuts, were still made redundant.
Ozil offered to pay for said mascots salary, but the club declined.
Now, all this happened during the shutdown and when the PL resumed, Ozil was not only left out of the team, he was excluded from the first team squad for “footballing reasons.”
That continued exclusion carried on in the fa cup and MA included a player who had never played a first team game, let alone been in the squad in his FA cup final squad, rather than Ozil and who received a cup winners medal, before leaving the club, having still never featured in any PL game.
You claim he was a “problem child” but he always turned up for training, was ready to play and never dissed the club or the manager.
That’s how I, personally, see what happened and believe that the points I made were the reasons, along with his absurd reported salary, why the club (not necessarily MA) why Ozil, from being a MA regular, became the outcast who was sent home on gardening leave.
If you see it differently, I would like to read why and don’t you think he actually acted with great professionalism?
Arteta has proved you wrong. Havertz will prove you wrong. Do you dislike our club being successful again with Gracias Mikel in the chair 😁
What is “Gracias Mikel in the chair”??
Notice when it comes to Havertz you still use “will” Even though the season is nearly over?
Regarding your last sentence you can play that game with yourself 😑
I’m quite sure that Arsenal as a team will develop further, and Havertz is still a relatively young player with potential to get better. I believe Arteta will help him to be the very best version of himself.
He’s surpassed his best season at Chelsea scoring multiple winners for us in this title challenge and 2nd top goalscorer behind saka?????????? If hes bad what does that say about Martinelli, Jesus etc.
Agendas going to agenda.
He is not 2nd top scorer in the EPL that would be Watkins. Havertz is 15th in the list and he is paid more than 90% of all ahead of him.
You can’t compare him with fellow Arsenal scorers only unless it’s on training ground. Sigh!!!
He’s OUR 2nd top scorer with 9 PL goals.
I’m not a Havertz apologist
What I try to be is pragmatic and not rush to conclusions
Havertz hasn’t completed his first season yet and had regularly been under the cosh because it took a while for him to settle in.
I’m not sure anybody thinks he’s the bees knees but the majority are seeing a transformation taking place
Then it’s irresponsible of the club to give a long contract worth so much money to a player who may or may not find his feet after 4 seasons in the EPL.
HH
I’ve done my best to be reasonable and all you do is find another reason to complain. This time it’s down to the club for giving him a long contact
They all get long contracts. He’s not going to sign a probationary contract of 6 months is he?
Exactly. HH just clutches at one straw after another.
That slice of humble pie with HH etched on it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
Another reason to complain? From the start my point have always been one.
It was Havertz wages vs performance then it’s Havertz wages vs performance now. How is that another reason or as Neutral put it another clutch?
Funny no one has dared addressing their criticism of Ozil wages if wages truly doesn’t matter.
He’s 2nd top goalscorer and your wage assumptions are based upon ludicrous reports in the media you are so disingenuous its unbearable
Havertz works a lot harder for the team than Ozil did, plus he hasn’t spent the New Year at home in Germany or had a holiday in February like Ozil did towards the end of Wenger’s tenure.
Also include away games that he didn’t fancy.
Correct Jax.
It’s pretty late in my zone will go to sleep now, my apologies if I don’t respond when you post again.
The simple fact is that everybody talks about wages when a player isn’t performing, nobody talks about their wages when they’re excelling…except you.
I think you’ve backed yourself into a corner over the years. Your well-warranted pessimism as the project began taking off was in anticipation of a fall. You wanted to be the one to say I told you so. Now that the ship has sailed, you find yourself pathologically undervaluing Arteta and Havertz because you can’t bring yourself to make such a heavy U-turn. The longer you don’t, the worse it’ll get. Either that or you wait 7-8 years until the next decline and THEN, cane in hand, utter the words “I told you so”.
Pure fantasy talk. How funny all of you pretend you didn’t see my 100% support of Arteta for the whole of last season even after collapse in the end.
How could you all miss a whole season comments from me?
Because you have this picture about me and you neither understand nor trying to my points. You see my name and go on the offensive.
Try this and you will see the difference. Treat a post as a post not the name behind the post.
Spot on @Sean.
HH, I have noticed from previous threads about wages in general that you much agree with me in saying that ALL Prem players wages are ludicrously high.
If I had my way, ALL of them would be reduced to earning at most “A MERE TEN PER CENT” of what they all now earn.
That ANY player, no matter how good,or likeable or productive he is,earns hundreds of thousands of pounds per WEEK, is an unjust scandal!
Esp when people who do VITAL JOBS IN SOCIETY EARN A MERE PITTANCE , BY COMPARISON.
Yes I have always agreed on the wages issues and by the look of it its going to get worse and worse.
It sucks the joy of the game if you think about it because few players now play for passion of the club when it’s money they are after.
It might not be obvious now but I fear for artificial football in the future.
The way I understand capitalism to work is that people earn based on the revenue they generate. Football has the patronage of billions of people globally and as a result generates a ton of money. Arsenal generates hundreds of millions of dollars per year through various sources. Players being the main characters in the generation of these revenues,are entitled to a fair share of the same. To limit what they can earn would be an injustice and a mockery of fair economic systems. As far as I know, these players pay taxes to their home/host countries from their earnings. Any country that adopts punitive financial measures like you suggest is bound to scare away these athletes and consequently lose revenue from they would otherwise get from the taxes. They’ll go to countries with fair economic systems.
You could say a doctor does more vital work. But thing is,the work a doctor does does not generate as much revenue as the average footballer. If we go by the principle of people getting what they’ve earned then there’s nothing wrong with these wages. It is the same reason why a player at City(generates more revenue) will earn more than one at Luton. Or why the average male footballer earns more than the average female footballer. Men’s football simply generates more money at the moment.
People in the entertainment industry will always make lots of money because often they have a global audiences.Elite musicians and movie stars all make million of dollars. Elite athletes like footballers,boxers,golfers,f1 drivers,basketballers etc make millions for the same reason.
PS: I think the work athletes do is just as vital as any. A doctor might save one or two people in a day but a football match can brings joy to millions in a day. There are wars that have been stopped through sports.You’d be surprised by just how many indivuduals,and sometimes entire societies to have been saved by sport.
To simply say I much disagree with how you think fair capitalism should work would be an understatement.
Your position is argued entirely on those who play, earning almost all the huge money ands thus wages that football generates,while impoverishing ordinary fans who ALL play a vital part in football, is something I profoundly disagree about.
. What about all the ordinary non rich fans who support football and without whom no top level football would be possible or would survive long!
Do THEY not also deserv to pay far less, esp in times when money is having to stretch further than ever before?
I say they DO and that far from constantly paying players more and more and more and still more( much of which goes to parasite agents and impoverishes the ordinary fan, many of whom would love to attend but are priced out) a far fairer, lower priced gamew would be fairer and healthier for all.
You mention, incorrectly btw, that what I suggest in my above post are “punitive measures” To suggest that a player who will still earn at least five to twenty THOUSAND pounds per week is” punitive” shows you dont understand correctly what punitive means.
You are promoting gross and unfair greed and that is something that disgusts me and will, if not checked, eventually kill the sport that countless milions love.
Think again!!
Jon you make excellent points about greed and fans overpaying. That still doesn’t convince me that players should be paid less. It tells me that the football ‘establishment’ if you will,are the problem,not the players. What I’m getting from you is that they should lower the costs for fans-something I agree with. If this happens,naturally the revenue will go down and players will earn less. But until that happens,players deserve what they are getting currently. It’s not their fault that those who own and run these football clubs overcharge their customers.Reducing their wages while revenue flow increases or remains constant just means more money for the billionnaire owners. If I’m being honest,I’d rather the players have a chunk of the profits than the owners and executives.
I used the word punitive with regards to this statement from you- “If I had my way, ALL of them would be reduced to earning at most “A MERE TEN PER CENT” of what they all now earn.” In the current paradigm,their wages,though the fruits of corporate greed,are deserved,as a fair fraction of the revenues. To come up with an arbitrary figure of 10% without a comprehensive financial analysis of why that should happen sounds punitive to me.Essentially,you’d be punishing the players for corporate greed,which they are not responsible for. If you have to go after someone,go after the football establishment,the executives and rich owners who bleed their customers dry.
Let me ask you this question jon. Assuming Arsenal fc doesn’t lower prices,meaning revenues remain constant,but somehow you manage to cap the wages of players to 10% of their current,where do you think the extra revenue(the 90%) will go? Do you think it will be donated to the poor and disenfranchised?
Well said. I think its simple economics. The higher the demand, the higher the price. The demand for football is at an all time high, so ticket prices will naturally go up. We also need to factor in inflation and other economic realities. So i wont even blame the owners for increasing the ticket prices. Its what any business person will do.
Your last paragraph is the key one for me – is it really better to cap the salaries of the players when the money is there and will otherwise simply go to wealthy shareholders? Footballers have invested their time in developing skills that are demonstrably *extremely* highly valued in society. You can decry the fact those skills are so highly valued (and I do, personally) but the fact remains that they are. If we are interested in truth, we have to accept this.
To impose (further) controls by capping wages, and presumably things like ticket prices and the money clubs can make through TV revenue would simply lead to more consolidation of wealth among the already wealthy (or more likely see the best players elsewhere, as you also mentioned). I don’t see how that’s any better.
These are one-sided arguments in favour of player greed and are focused on the upside with no consideration of risks. Also, the assessment of the “financial value” of an “asset” such as a footballer is often quite arbitrary and subjective.
Where people have designed models which attempt to assess player values, in general, they have found that the quoted salaries are often well above the “value” such players bring to the club.
Someone above has said it’s “simple economics”. I beg to differ. Certainly, there are economics involved but they are by no means simple. Various individuals and institutions have distorted the market for players in recent times. These sometimes caused ripple effects damaging to clubs; especially those lower down the food chain.
Most clubs arguably do not have sound underlying fundamentals. As a result many quickly run into financial difficulty if the revenue streams, e.g. from broadcasting, European competition, are affected. Why is this relevant to a footballer? For most at the higher levels it is not their problem if the club loses the income. They will get their money. The club however has to keep running at a loss until they can get an upturn in fortune or a rich benefactor comes along. The ballooning of transfer fees and wages has meant that some clubs have not made any real money for many years.
Onyabgo, without in any way, wishing to sound smarmy or patronisang toward you, it is and has been obvious to me ever since you began posting on JA that you are a forward thinking and highly intelligent man. Withoiut wishing to blow my own trumpet , I believe that also describes me.
But two bright peoiple can and often do profoundly disagree when an important principle is at stake.
My principle is that I CANNOT and never will accept that players are a sort of helpless pawn in accepting scandalously high wages .
All of them, IF they have the morals and belief. could choose to accept far less. Greed is disgusting, whether it is accepted by OUR players or by rival clubs players and I PERSONALLY HAVE DETESTED GROSS GREED ALL MY ADULT LIFE.
It divides the very rich from the rest of us and esp tthe really poor, who have as much right to enjoy watching football as does ANY SUPER RICH PERSON
On this fundamental principle our two philosophies about how humans can be ,if we choose, could not differ rmore from each other than it already does.
I will not insult you by again asking tou to think again, as I can easily see it would be pointless.
But I need to point out that NOT ALL people in life look out only for themselves and their OWN PERSONAL LAVISH LIFE STYLE AND BANK BALANCE.
Even though top players are almost non existent among THAT noble group of human beings. SIGH!
Your final paragrtaph ,including the question you ask, describes an entirely unrealistic and totally hypothetical situation, so it is irrelevant.
IF players were paid say just 10% of what they now get, the whole game would need less money from paying attendees and from those who watch by Sky, TNT and who buy vastly overpriced diabolically too highly priced merchandise.
GREED IS SLOWLY BUT STEADILY KILLING THE GAME AS A SPORT.
And I at least can see that clearly and sadly. Even it you refuse to see it !
Yes, ideally he should but realistically it’s not a guarantee…. We’ve seen players on the same wage bracket that has been a flop and am still saying the wage you’re all complaining about is speculated as it’s neither disclose by the club nor his agent… So it’s not a fact
And I apply same rule for all players Chronicle. It’s madness those senseless and what we receive in return.
It’s us who pay for it whether be in stadium tickets, club merchandise or TV and internet subscriptions.
Those who think it’s Kroenke or other owners who pay deceive no one but themselves.
I agree with you about crazy money in modern football, especially in the Premier League. Did you expect us to compete among the best clubs in the league with a different approach?
No.
In modern football you cannot compete unless you spend. It’s pay to win basically.
But if we are to pay then shouldn’t we pay to get the best? And even though it’s a spending game there is a limit to it (as in what kind of player receive what kind of money).
Nketiah and Nelson on 100k?
Havertz is reported on 300-350k a week. Is he that kind of money player?
I agree HH, no matter what others say Havertz simply isn’t value for money no matter how thick the rose-tinted lenses are. The club messed up awarding him such wages, and those who say ‘it’s not your money, why do you care?’ have a very shallow view of how money works in football. Whether it’s sponsorships, endorsements, merchandise, kits, tickets, tv deals, etc all of that money comes from the punter, we invest in our club and the club spends that investment. We have a right to value/question the result and process. However, I don’t think Havertz is bad, I actually think he’s growing into the team and could be the ideal utility player once he’s fully adapted to his multi-positional role. But even with that said, if we buy a top striker and partner for Rice in the summer we’ll suddenly have a player on £350k on the bench, and thats quite a scary reality – both to negative and positive degrees. If people still think he’ll be a starter after buying such players then that’s also pretty frightening.
The “top striker” thing is a red herring.
Look at the stats of so-called top strikers and they are seen as top strikers if they get more than a goal every other game.
Osimhen that everyone is raving about is on 0.69 goals per 90 mins.
And they don’t do the work the other players do to create chances.
I don’t know enough to know if Arteta wants a striker or not but I can see why he might want to play the way Arsenal is set up now. Most goals scored, least conceded. 4 points out of 6 from both main rivals. If it ain’t broke, why try to fix it?
Havertz may be the new CF, just not doing the same things traditional CFs/strikers do. The game moves on – false 9, inverted this and that, blah de blah. There’s no rule saying Arteta has to play the same way other people think he should.
I see great progress in the time he has been in charge. So I see it as… best to just let him get on with it. Fans telling successful managers what players they need is all a bit pointless really, no point in getting heated about it.
Neutral, . though I could not agree MORE with your post, I also think that fansites such as this are a valuable debate forum.
Of course the REAL TRUTH is that not a single one of us on JA, or an any other club fansite, knows even a fraction as much as the manager in charge, whoever that may be at any time.
But without fan debate sites we would have no opportunity to give our views and thoughts to our fellow club fans.
And that would be awful. And unfair!
So yes, you ARE right, but democracy and EVERYONE having their own say too, is also of vital importance!.
‘top striker’ was only a very small element of my comment, strange you’d pick up on that with a lengthy response – though not to say I disagree I must add. However, it’s widely reported that both MA and Edu are in the market for both a prolific forward and a midfielder, it’s almost a given thats our summer aims. I also think you’re undervaluing what some of the best strikers bring, Isak is one of the best carriers in the PL, Osimhen is enough to stress an entire backline, and so on, all current ‘top strikers’ offer something more than lots of goals. Look at Haaland before Pep made him a standard 9, or Kane before he went to Spurs, one came in like an inside forward, the other dropped in as a 10 and both created many goals. All of them score in big games too. In this day and age a number 9 needs to put up numbers and either create or be the focal point enough to be a major part of an attack’s identity. It’s possible we use Havertz like Nunez, I get what you’re saying, different type of striker style creating chaos, bullying players and making smart runs. But as seen today, fans get tired of 9’s who aren’t hitting solid figures, as it could well cost Liverpool the title now, and when Arteta looks at his teamsheet for areas that can be improved in the summer, it’d be crazy to think he wouldn’t be looking at the rather unclinical Havertz and seeing room for improvement. Let’s not forget that before this great run started in January we went through November and December barely scoring and playing dreadfully, there’s no guarantee that won’t happen again, and if it does before May, we’ll be kissing the title goodbye sadly.
*before he went from Spurs to Bayern
It’s widely reported that Arteta is looking sign my mum.
Armchair pundits who think they know how Arsenal should play.
Admin Martin has the tough job of faithfully reporting all the stuff in the world media. If the reports were right Arsenal would have a squad bigger than the population of Wales next season.
And it’s not about “fans get tired of 9s” doing x y or z. Good managers ignore that stuff and do their own thing while they spin a bland line pf patter to the media, saying nothing.
Havertz is not “unclinical”. Is it something like 5 goals in 7 games and 9 “goal actions”. That’s pretty good.
When he joined he clearly suffered from expectations, as a lot of players do. Many don’t get over it. It’s not helped by reading stuff by fans who know nothing compared to the manager spouting anti-Havertz posts. A lot of players read the media and fan sites. He has done well to be moving past all that now, fair dos to the guy.
There’s just way too much in your post with no paragraphs to say more. We disagree on a lot, let’s leave it there.
You’re bailing due to a lack of paragraphing? Should I point out your inability to take english grammar seriously by avoiding to use enough commas, or should we maybe just understand we’re posting comments on a sports forum, not drafting an essay?
If you’re going to keep pushing disrespectful replies I’m going to keep clarifying my stance, its simple.
Pundits, fans, even staff know that Arsenal’s next two big investments will likely be a striker and a partner for Rice, I’ve literally just done a Google search and several instant hits show how it’s well reported. Ornstein, Watts, ex-players, even Edu and Arteta are quoted understanding that a top tier striker is likely the next piece to our project, why is that so hard to believe? It’s one of two positions that are the most logical step when you look at the season’s stats and the reality that either Jorginho and/or Partey will depart this summer, so too Lokonga, Elneny, and Nketiah. I don’t know who Admin Martin is but if he spends his spare time researching Arsenal he’s probably a top bloke, however, there’s no chance he is more in-the-know than the likes of those I’ve just listed. And to be quite frank, if Admin Martin works here at Just Arsenal, a site that constantly features articles such as who our next striker should/could be, I’d say he too is probably very much aware, irrespective of all the inaccurate articles out there.
“Armchair pundits who think they know how Arsenal should play” Is that relating to me, or just a general statement on our fans? Do you include yourself in that, or just those who disagree with you? So do you have no opinions on how we should play? Maybe it isn’t a case of ‘how we should play’ but maybe people are simply analysing how we actually play and suggesting possible solutions/alternatives, or are those people not allowed to have opinions…? And lets not forget that some of them may well actually be on the same page as Arteta, do they not deserve respect?
And no Havertz isn’t clinical, you don’t look at goals per game to determine if a player is clinical, you look at their shot conversion rate 🤦🏽♂️ For example, if a player scores three goals in three games, that may look impressive, but if you then take into account that the player had 15 shots per game, or that his goals were tap-ins whilst his 1on1 or clean shot numbers were poor then that tells the full story. He’s getting goals, which is great both for him and us, but he is not clinical nor has he been since he left Germany. If he starts getting more shots on target, connecting properly, and finishing his many chances at a higher rate then the term clinical can begin to be used, as that’s it’s definition in a footballing context.
5 goals in 7 games is great, but you’ve just shown that you’re cherry-picking details. There was twenty games before that, and he rarely broke beyond double figures each season for Chelsea. I’m routing for him, I really am, he seems like a really nice guy as well, I’ve never belittled him or his contributions, but I’m not going to lie and act like he’s clinical, or undroppable should we sign a more accomplished number 9. Months ago people were saying he was our answer to the box-to-box position, yet I don’t see anyone wanting him back in that role.
The quote was that fans get tired of 9s not putting up decent numbers, which is true as it often proves crucial in big games or at crunch points in seasons. Managers usually end up getting frustrated as well, hence how MA often switches between Jesus, Nketiah, Trossard and now Havertz, why Klopp doesn’t stick with Nunez despite his work rate, so too ten Hag with Hojlund. The only exception is Haaland, why? Because he regularly gets the goals.
We disagree on a lot yet you’ve not really proven anything I’ve said to be incorrect.
I’m not part of the management group of Arsenal. I don’t have all details about players, other clubs involves or the reason for paying them these kind of money. But, to keep them in the club and make them stay positive with limited playing minutes you have to offer some incentives. I guess you can find these kinds of players in most big clubs, but not all managers manage to keep them positive, which I believe is crucial in a competitive environment. Some of them might leave next summer, others can grab the chance when getting minutes. From our perspective it’s easy to be critical or negative, but we are lacking facts and can only speculate.
Nketiah will be sold for a massive profit from his contract extension in the summer. What are you talking about? You’ve been proven wrong over and over give it a rest. It’s embarrassing.
that* not the
Why is it Angus, that fans accepted what was said about the wages that Ozil and Aubemeyang, along with Nketiah and Nelson, but start saying that Havertz reported salary is just a rumour?
What IS double standards, is the FACT that the reported salaries that Ozil and Aubemeyang were receiving, were used as PART of the reason why they were hounded by sections of the fanbase.
Both of them were lauded at the beginning of their Arsenal careers and both helped us win trophies – were they worth those obscene reported salaries? Of course not and NEITHER is Havertz.
Would you say that he is warranted the accolade of earning more money than, say, Rice, Saliba, Gabriel, Martinelli or Saka?
By the way, I have supported Havertz from the very beginning! /
HH Spot on! Anyone who doubts or disputes that all the money paid to greedy players and their greedy agents come from ordinar fans. The fact that players choose to employ agents to negotiate even more salaries for themselves, SHOWS GRAPHICALLY how greedy players are.
They choose to be so but could, if they wished, choose not to be greedy. It is their own personal decision to be greedy and let no one foolishly deny that is so
OF COURSE it is plain that all money paid to players in wages comes directly or indirectly from the pockets of ordinary and also poor fans , someof whom cannot afford to go and some who are also forced t cancelo pricey TV sports packages.
There is far too much letting off of GROSSLY GREEDY PLAYERS, simply because many fans choose to worship their talent and ignore the ghastly greed they show all the time.
SIGH!
The mentality in the team now is beastly. Gabriel is having a very solid season.
Like celebrating that block from Gabriel was overwhelming.
Now it’s left to the 3 toughest games we have to face in Tottenham, Man Utd, and Chelsea in that order.
Let’s take it game by game and see where it goes.
Man Utd will be the toughest
Followed by Tottenham
Then Chelsea
@ Didrik Plehn… we cannot finish the job unless Liverpool slip up. Fingers crossed we wouldn’t have to wait much longer for that to happen.
I don’t take anything for granted because we have difficult fixtures list, and we are competing against two of the best teams in the World. But Arsenal has a massive defence and we will not concede many goals in the remaining fixtures. If we don’t manage to win the league this season, my focus will switch to the next season without complaining 🔴⚪️
Brighton hasn’t lost at home since… August?
Puts that result in perspective.
Very good point Neutral.Brighton ,who were without two of their top forwards through injury , are a side with a number of very talented players, including the impressive Carlos Baleba who brings a lot of pace and power to their central midfield and has a terrific left foot.Indeed could be be an ideal young partner for Rice if either Jorjinho or Partey move on.?As to Arsenal, a very professional performance epitomized by yet another clean sheet despite the obvious weakness on our left flank where Zinchenko and Jesus were found wanting on occasion.I can only assume Arteta has rested Kwior for the Bayern match as they have dangerous wingers who are very effective on the counter attack .With regard to Havertz, he deserved his man of the match accolade and as he has gained in confidence he is becoming a very important cog in what is developing into a slick,well oiled machine.
Love the way Gabriel Mangalles celebrated that block shot like he scored a goal. Our defense is ROCK solid and airtight its remarkable.
Bring on FC Bayern Munchen we have a score to settle with them.
COYG.
Kai is a master stroke
Some player
What a performance.
Absolutely brilliant.
$60 Million down the drain, Kai Havertz scores again. I like that chant!
And I was definitely in the negative camp!! COYG.
Superb performance from every single player who made up this squad effort.
Jorginho rolled back the years and that defence!! WOW!!
The only query I would have, is why Viera was brought on instead of ESR, considering the latter’s mid week performance – not a criticism more a observation.
Now it’s Bayern Munich and I hope MA can sooth some of the wounds this club inflicted on us and AW… 5-0 anyone?
The CL is the only trophy Bayern can realistically go for now, after they lost 3-2 today after being 2 nil up. Leverkusen only need 3 points from 6 games to clinch the title. Still Kane will win a trophy for being the Bundesliga top scorer. It’s a cannon 😂😂😂
Probably to get more or less all players involved, we are going need most of them in the dying stages of the season. Let’s hope ESR will get some minutes against Bayern Munich on Tuesday.
My respect for AW has wiped out my bad memories. He should have left us earlier, and didn’t deserve all the s*it we gave him. I only rember his great work and his legacy.
Didrik, I believe that’s one of the points HH is making, but we move on and now watch his protege bringing back great football.
Ken, Vieira was probably brought on to boost his appearances total to qualify for a winner’s medal (only need five these days) in the likelihood of us winning the Premier League. We might see a bit more of this from other fringe players yet.
Thing with Jesus, Tomi, ESR, Partey they pick up so many injuries and not small ones either I am happy with ESR being eased in very slowly that was a lot of minutes for him last time out. He can hardly string together 3 or 4 games without getting injure when he gets steady minutes.
That could be why makaya – but I’ve yet to see any Viera performance that comes anywhere near what ESR produces…. when given an extended run.
He may well feature on Tuesday Ken1945.
He well might SueP and I hope he does – but MA is getting everything correct at the moment… it was just me puzzling over Viera and not giving ESR more playing time.
Who can really moan after what we’ve seen today??
I can’t second guess Arteta
Save ESR for Tuesday
Give Vieira a chance and keep him sweet after returning from injury and keep the rustiness away
Who knows?
It seems to me that we are in the unexpected position of having an almost fully fit squad for the remainder of the season – fingers crossed 🤞 it stays that way
It’s been like going through a revolving door when they the team go into it with a need for a reboot and come out looking like world beaters
I’m not complaining
Smith Rowe won’t play on Tuesday
I think Emile is likely to play Tuesday Sue, only on the assumption that we’ll out an attacking side to take as many goals as possible to Bayern, when I would expect us to be more defensive (assuming we have a decent lead to protect).
Smith Rowe won’t play on Tuesday
U can’t get the thinking behind Arteta’s mind to play him against “LUTON” in our “HOME”
Means Luton Away – he would not play
Talk less of Bayern, whether home or away
Viera will also not play
I expect Partey substitution rather
🙄
😂
You’ve been told fairly and squarely
Yeah Sue, looks like I should just shut up😂
ken1945👍
Nice one.
Over there in Germany, I think T. Tiuchel woke up this morning to realise they have a game this afternoon. He has been preparing for the Arsenal tie for weeks.
Another brilliant performance from the shut out kings. We turn our attention to Bayern’s visit next. COYG!
If Liverpool looses tomorrow, then we’ll just need to keep winning and the title will be ours! I have confidence in Arteta and the team to keep a winning run till the end. I hope the UCL will not distract
Good solid 3-0 win against a Brighton side, which has only lost one home game this season until today. Arsenal started with a lot of energy, high pressing and could have scored 2 goals before the penalty – would have loved to see Gabriel score from his header.
Even though Brighton had two top forwards out, Arsenal’s defence did not give them a sniff. Another clean sheet, which hopefully extends to Harry Kane and Bayern Munchen. Shooting boots required at the Emirates.
This was a solid all round performance from Arsenal. Even though Brighton had some players absent they can be a difficult proposition especially at home.
The defensive structure was sound and we snuffed out most of what Brighton threw at us.
Havertz had one of his best games and right now probably starts in our strongest starting 11.
Unsurprisingly, arguments about Havertz arise even though we won relatively comfortably.
It’s human nature that you always dig out people when you lose but not when you win. We have some strange and bitter people supporting us 😕
Some can’t enjoy the moment and need to find a problem when there isn’t any. Times like these don’t come around every day. They are special l….
A really mature, and solid win
Compared to this time last season when we looked nervous and panicked at times which made us as fan nervous. Yesterday they looked controlled, measured, professional, composed I could go on and on
We looked like champions . Whether that happens is another story as there is still a way to go
a few twists to come, which hopefully starts today with pool dropping points
Onwards and upwards
Since Havertz has been moved to cf we have become a far better team. Funny that the two accounts disrespecting Havertz are HH and another account that’s too names that start with HH. Are you the same person ? 65 million down the drain Kai Havertz score again. Havertz Havertz Havertz !!!!!!!!!
I thought Gabriel was brilliant yesterday – I really like how he’s tempered his aggression over the past couple of seasons and now he’s got it just right. He’s another leader in this team.
Also another great game for jorginho – I’m desperate to see rice and partey together in our midfield, but jorginho is making it hard for TP to get back in.
I don’t think that people appreciate the quality of this performance- Other than one save by Raya of Enciso shot, Brighton didn’t have a sniff throughout the game. Here we are talking about dominating a very decent side at their home and not giving them even half a chance. We could have played for 90 minutes more and Brighton still wouldn’t have scored
👍👍
A great result. We can all now enjoy being at the top of the tree for a while.
We played really well, but in one respect, I believe we were lucky!
I do not think that playing Zinc and Jorghino in the same team is sensible.
Brighton tried to exploit this weakness, but were not quite good enough this time.
However, we are about to play against teams who will be good enough, so I hope Arteta is smart enough to
not play these two together for the rest of the season!!!!!
Sadly, I think his ego may just get the best of him again!!!
Great win and considering Liverpool drew with United, it is our title to lose. If we keep our form, consistency and the drive we are winning the title.
@ken1945
Hi Ken, sorry I can’t reply to your question above, there’s no Reply button by your post. I think the site stops allowing replies after a certain depth.
To answer your question… well, I can’t really answer it with direct facts. I really don’t store such info medium term and we’re talking about a few years now.
So I can’t remember the sequence of events, what I remember now is simply that there were a lot of issues with Ozil…
One thing on that, regarding “turning up for training and being ready to play”… well, yeah he would. The feeling at the time was that Ozil was looking to milk his pay for the full term of the contract and he was more into a future gaming career than football.
So, yes, of course he turned up and was theoretically ready to play – otherwise his contract gets canned and he wd fail to milk the money from the club.
Re China, I remember wondering at the time why he made those comments about China’s treatment of Muslims. Almost as if… he wanted to create a problem.
All supposition on my part of course, but I always learned in life to ask myself “What’s his angle on this?”.
Towards the end of when he actually played, his performances were so poor that he seemed to be trying not to be selected. Just be available -but playing rubbish – so the money keeps coming in with minimum effort.
And Ozil was never willing to be moved on for the good of the club. That was another factor which made me think he’s only looking out for himself and manipulating the situation so he gets a lot for doing nothing.
That was my take on it and I think it was how most fans saw it. It’s just an opinion and I realise we’re all looking at it from the outside, so we can only form a view based on what’s reported in the media.
Jeez sry didnt realise I wrote all that.
Less than I wrote!!
But you really didn’t answer the basic question Neutral – how was it that MA selected him for every game in our undefeated 12 match run up to the coronavirus stoppage, but never selected him, for “footballing reasons” after the games restarted.
No football was played, he turned up every day for training and yet, it was only for “footballing reasons” that MA dropped him from first team squad?!
Of course he honoured his contract, why wouldn’t he, as it was a legally binding contract?
I can’t answer that part Ken because I wasn’t part of the decisions (at risk of stating the obvious).
I took the “footballing reasons” with a pinch of salt at the time. It could mean anything. It sounded as if it was meant as “He isn’t playing well enough (and that’s because he isn’t trying hard enough)”.
A legally binding contract doesn’t really mean much. There are always termination clauses, penalty clauses which cover what happens when someone doesnt do what they should. Ozil would know that, so he would turn up every day to train and get paid, that doesn’t mean he has to try very hard, esp if he doesnt want to get selected.
And if he does get selected, just be sure to play badly and look as if you dont wanna be there.
That’s how the whole thing came across to me, but from a distance. Hard to tell what was really going on. I noticed that he did the same thing in his next contracts in Turkey. He just seemed to lose interest in football but still wanted to get paid.
Dunno. Like I say, I’m not close enough to it to do more than guess based on what I saw at the time.
In the conv in this article though the issue was the comparison with Havertz. he is definitely trying and overcoming the pressures. Rightly or wrongly, I don’t think anyone felt Ozil was trying very hard in the last couple of years. Same with Aubameyang. Lots of money, not delivering, apparently not even trying. That’s why people were not impressed that those two were mentioned as being similar situation to Havertz.
Neutral
I’m sure the board weren’t impressed by Ozil speaking out against the Chinese. I’m neutral on the rights and wrongs of that intervention as it was a personal belief of his which he shared with his millions of followers.
What infuriated me was his offer to pay Gunnersaurus. Ozil was well within his rights to refuse to take a pay cut but to then interfere with the employment practices of the club was not his business. But things like that tugged at the heart strings and a right furore ensued. Was it altruism or turning the knife?
We are referring to is his behaviour off the pitch which has nothing whatsoever to do with his ability on it.
Whether Arteta thought that Ozil was committed enough or long term good enough is guesswork. It may well have come from above to give Ozil the heave ho.
I just know that once he and his chums, as well as Guendouzi and Auba left, the in coming players were a different breed who don’t appear to have that sense of entitlement.
No one’s arguing that MA has brought in players who have gelled together more SueP – my point is that, until the coronavirus cancelled the PL, Ozil featured in every single game of our 12 match unbeaten run – Why, then, if he was part of the squad before covid, wasn’t he even registered afterwards?
Forget about his attitude, because that didn’t stop MA selecting him did it?
How on earth could a player who had never featured in the first team squad, receive a cup winners medal, while Ozil was completely ignored (and Aubemeyang scored the two goals that won us the cup).
I’m sorry, but if folks cannot see that the club acted in a way that discredits them, then I believe said folks are wrong.
One day the truth will come out, but to say that Ozil was dropped because of his attitude and footballing ability is ludicrous – simply because he was one MA’s choices before the pandemic.
As I remember it Ken – and it was a while ago – Ozil may have been selected for 12 matches but he wasnt playing well and his manner on the field was kinda sultry.
I think I remember getting the impression that Arteta was sticking with Ozil in the hope that he wd improve and showing some faith in him might help. It didn’t.
Also Arteta was quite new in the job so it was a difficult political situation for him to drop a highly paid player.
I guess in the end the management of the club saw the problem and agreed with Arteta that Ozill had to be dropped.
Team morale suffers when you have someone that well paid who isn’t trying. I wasn’t in the dressing room to see how things went down, but my expectation would be that there would have been factors like that which led to Ozil’s total exclusion.
It seemed as if they felt he was a bad influence all round. Dunno – as I say, it’s hard to comment when we see just the tip of the iceberg.
But what we do see is that Arteta has a fair idea what he’s doing, so I can only assume that he had his reasons and it wouldn’t have happened without the backing of the club.
Exactly Sue. And that’s why a lot of companies have policies on social media, because they expect their employees to realise that what they say in public reflects on the company or in this case, the club.
As you say, the players coming have a different mentality and just maybe part of that is that they have seen that players who behave badly will not be tolerated at Arsenal.
That’s one reason I would not expect Arteta to buy a player like Mbappe. He seems to realise the importance of squad harmony.
Ken1945
I didn’t say he was dropped for those reasons
What I suggested was that the club just as likely decided to give him the heave ho but also with the view that Arteta must have had reservations about Ozil’s long term commitment to the team
He was within his rights not to accept a pay cut but it doesn’t look good that he and 2 others were not willing to be part of the ‘cause’. It’s not being a team player. Arteta has put much stock on togetherness and for me, Ozil’s profile at the time did not fit in with that.
You have put forward a defence for Ozil, as well as when all this kicked off. I on the other hand felt he was divisive. It had nothing to do with the talent he possessed but what looked to me, to be a man who was more interested in himself than to being a team player. Hence my last paragraph.
Perhaps Ozil is writing his memoirs and we’ll get his side of the story I’m sure that would be enlightening
We do not have the full story behind Ozil being dropped. However, there had long been concerns about Ozil’s attitude. Some people may wish to insinuate that external political or other motives were behind his being dropped. That’s their prerogative but it does not mean that it is true.
Others have chosen to believe that decline in a once influential player had been noted along with limited commitment and a suboptimal attitude. With little evidence of a turnaround Arteta may have felt that he had given Ozil enough time to buckle up and decided that he wasn’t going to change.
It is difficult to argue against the view that latter day Ozil was nowhere near peak Ozil in creativity. Also, he was sometimes ineffective even when he nominally appeared to cover significant mileage when he played. Many will also remember the mysterious absences due to “back problems” in previous seasons.
The “football reasons” offered by Arteta has quite a wide potential scope but are not as ludicrous as some seem to be suggesting.