Arsenal may have lost narrowly to Bayern Munich, but our lads have gained more valuable experience

Arsenal was never going to have an easy game when they travelled to Munich for our second leg, especially considering our opponents continued success in this competition over recent decades, but I feel they could easily have won it if we had been just a tiny bit more clinical, and they can still hold their heads up after losing narrowly at a ground where we have historically been battered.

One thing for sure is that Thomas Tuchel knows that his team had to use every ounce of that experience to get past our young Gunners, who have not even been in Europe’s premier competition for the last seven years.

No matter how close we were to reaching the Champions League semis, there is no doubt that our lads have gained a mountain of experience from our amazing journey, and it won’t seem quite so daunting next season, as Mikel said after the game: “We haven’t been in the Champions League for seven years, we haven’t been in this position for 14 years, but our intention is to fast-forward everything and in our first season, be ready to play in the semi-finals and we were very close.

“Unfortunately, we haven’t managed to do it, so we have to learn from it, me first, and earn the right to be in the same position next season.

“I’m obviously very sad. The dressing room is very disappointed. We had a lot of hope and invested a lot to go through, but the margins in this competition are super small, and we lacked to make the difference in those moments.

“We had our moments again. I think the team played with a lot of personality, but we lacked that magic moment at some stage or to force a mistake, because that happens as well to go through in the tie. We have to congratulate Bayern; they have done it, and they are through.”

When you think where we were just a few years ago, this Arsenal team have improved beyong recognition, and with a few more astute acquisitions in the summer, we will be even better prepared next year and will hopefully go even further.

We are improving every season, and long may it continue.

Onwards and Upwards!


So here are some simple rules which I must insist commenters follow….

You agree not to give any personal abuse to other Arsenal fans. Everyone is allowed to hold their own opinions even if you disagree with them. It COSTS NOTHING TO BE POLITE TO OTHER ARSENAL FANS.

Tags Bayern Munich v Arsenal


  1. Losing in the Quarterfinals to Bayern Munich in Champions League with a youthful team isn’t the end of the world. We are all sad about the defeat, Yes but it is experience which is useful for the future.
    Our season isn’t over. We need to win all our remaining matches and hope City slips up which is still possible.

    1. Keep on hoping bro as hope never dies but the reality is quite different. We couldn’t get revenge on the team which has been menace to us all these years but let’s hope sooner than later we can achieve that.

  2. We messed this up at home last week. Two schoolboy errors cost us badly.
    Huge game at Wolves on Saturday.

  3. People keep bringing up how much MA has spent etc. but the truth isn’t always that simple.

    I saw someone comparing MA to Rodgers, fair enough. MA is limited yes, not as great as Mourinho/Pep but definitely better than Emery was for us or Wenger in his last years.

    Then they keep saying au contraire how great Klopp is. I don’t argue that but in all his greatness, he won the title just ONCE, the Champions League ONCE and he’s been at Liverpool for almost a decade. More than us sure, but I’m trying to highlight how difficult those are to actually win. Klopp has spent money but the difference is Pool also knows how to sell (something we do not).

    And spending money does not equal success. For every hundred million well spent by City, are followed by terrible two hundred million spent by Chelsea/United.

    Our starting XI, everyone bar Jorginho/Havertz, have never played in the CL nor in the knock out stages for that matter. That also includes our manager. Our team is still very green. We didn’t win but we wen’t toe-to-toe with the club that last time spanked us 10-2, who also have almost a starting XI full of Champions League winners.

    Long story short, I’m sad to lose but I still enjoy watching Arsenal so much more than the whole decade we had 2010-2020. MA makes mistakes like many managers do (Havertz was a weird purchase), but he’ll learn along with the inexperienced players.

    And if you’re feeling like someone else would do his job better, please name these successors for arguments sake. We had serial winners Conte/Mourinho managing Spurs and for the first time in their careers they won nothing as a manager. We have Ten Hag coming with huge reputation to manage Man United, and he looks so lost. And also Klopp leaving Pool next season, I’m pretty sure every Pool fan would like him to stay despite Pool not even playing CL this season.

    1. @DaJuhi
      Stop comparing him to Unai, who was just a coach and had next to zero input over the team, or AW’s final years in an attempt to compensate or justify for Arteta’s shortcomings.
      And to set it straight, a mistake is an unintentional action. Intentionally repeating the same action is a pattern…Jus sayin

      1. It is not an attempt to justify anything, I am aware of his mistakes. It is a fact that we are more enjoyable to watch than Emerys Arsenal or Wengers late Arsenal. Emery has been deemed a failure at each big club he’s been (Arsenal, PSG) but thrived at the slightly “smaller” clubs such as Villa, Sevilla. Maybe it is because those clubs only need “a coach” but bigger clubs require a manager, who knows.

        Can you elaborate, how does one repeat the same mistakes if the culprit is inexperieced in the surroundings involving these mistakes? I understand how MA would repeat mistakes in the Premier League but how does he repeat mistakes in a competition he’s never managed at with players who also have never played at it? Surely you cannot compare the Champions League being the exact same as the Premier League?

        I guess what I’m trying to say is how we beat reigning Champions League winners City in the league, and drew them at the Etihad, DOMINATING THEM and yet couldn’t finish off a club like Porto without penalties. I cannot see any other reason for this than inexperience and all the mental things they bring.

        1. @DaJuhi
          Once again. A mistake is an “unintentional “ action. When you intentionally” repeat the same actions, it’s called a pattern.
          After 5 years, one is considered experienced enough to know his job.
          The majority of managers as well as players in the EPL are foreign born. Meaning, they bring with them that style of play and tactics.
          The difference between the League and the Champions League are that the stakes are higher in the latter for those involved, hence the name”Champions League”. Otherwise, it’s just another cup competition.
          Ever since AW became manager, AFC has been playing foreign style football. So, with the right manager, players and tactics, we should be able to compete with any team both foreign as well as domestic. No excuses not to be. Jus sayin

    2. Sensible comment. We made a step this season IMO. I just hope we don’t drop too many points for the remainder of the PL because this would point in the direction of another collapse which would question our mental strength. Dropping points to Villa and being eliminated by Bayern is not the end of the world, but not beating Wolves this weekend would start to point in the direction of a mental weakness.

    3. Well written article which I agree totally, We must learn quickly how to play against these European teams as next season we will have to play a minimum of eight different teams in the new CL format. This will be a massive test for our manager and players alike so should be really exciting for us fans. This season is not dead yet but no more slip ups can be afforded, and hope City and Pool drop points instead. Here’s hoping.

  4. Over all the season can still be seen as successful IMO.

    Important will be, for me:

    to see if we can avoid a total late season collapse in the next PL games. We need to show we can run City close and finish within a few points of 1st or win the PL (still possible – we can’t make it easier on City by dropping more points)

    to see if we will strengthen the squad during the summer and rotate more often and better next season. Once again our team are starting to look a little burned out when it matters. Saka has been a bit of a non factor lately, possibly as a result of too many games , which seemed inevitable with amount of games he was used in.

    I think Havertz filling in at striker was Ok, but if we buy a real striker, I still think we lose a bit with him in mid-field, we need some more depth in midfield IMO

    to see if we can move on players we don’t use and get a decent price for them (Ramsdale, Viera, ESR, Nkatia etc)

  5. What frustrates me with the Bayern defeat was that it was individual errors that cost us, not Bayern brushing us aside as they’ve done with ease in the past. We kind of beat ourselves.

    You win and lose as a team, so of course there should questions asked of Arteta, but I put this defeat more on the players, especially the first leg.

    What can any manager do when your players make big errors, and don’t do the basics? What infuriated me yesterday was Martinelli letting his man go for a free header, which ultimately sent us out.

    Then Saka, who had been so poor, with the last kick of the game couldn’t even beat the first man from the corner.

    And before the moaners claim it’s Arteta’s fault for picking these players, it’s was our key players that messed up over the tie. Gabriel and Rice for the first goal, Saliba for the pen, and Martinelli for the winner in Munich.

    Bayern were always the favourites, but weren’t great over the two legs, and it feels like we shot ourselves in the foot to be honest.

    1. Disagree Jen
      If we had won we would be told how great manager is so if we lose has to be same principle ?
      He chose to get Raya ( mistake in first leg )
      He chose to buy Havertz
      He chooses to have subs like Eddie Nketiah and Reiss Nelson ( championship players,)
      His management of smith Rowe has been odd
      He chooses to not to really use Partey over two legs
      He chooses not to stick with one left back
      He also every time we get to this stage of season has an inability to make players believe
      He keeps saying same thing

      Don’t get me wrong, he’s done a good job but of course he has to take responsibility

      1. If we had won we would be told how great manager is so if we lose has to be same principle ? As I just said, you win and lose as a team, although some will be more culpable than others, and the players making terrible errors is what cost us.

        Yes Raya came out wrongly in the first leg, but how far back do you want to go back when anlylizing a goal? Because Gabirel moved away and had a simple pass, which he messed up, then Rice let his runner go. A lot went wrong from an easy situation we were in control of post Raya coming out.

        Havertz has had a good season so far, simple as at!

        Nketiah and Nelson, are like 3rd choice subs, and Nketiah has only played as much as he has because of injuries.

        Smith Rowe is always injured, and is way overhyped.

        Not sure if you’re aware, Partey is barely fit enough to jog, and who’s passing has been erratic since returning.

        So Arteta gets criticized for not rotating, and when he does, he then gets criticized for rotating. Make your mind up!

        Maybe there is an issue with pressure, but remember that we had the youngest team last season, and 3rd youngest this season, and possible the youngest in the CL QF stage, and add on top of that all the injuries, and one could easily argue that we’re overachieving, especially last season with the injuries and how great City were.

        Nothing wrong with continuing to stay positive.

        1. Positivity for the sake it makes your opinion have no substance
          We play like that at Wolves and you still say ….we should be happy to be involved

          So simple question, if Arteta is doing nothing wrong , can you explain last two performances
          Very similar to Brighton and Forest last season

  6. So when I said we would have to play better then we did against Porto to get through I was dismissed and called names
    But we go out and the narrative changes ?

  7. I’m relieved, having woken up with slightly less disappointment, that there has been an article which I think represents a balanced view of the WHOLE and not just what happened over the last 2 legs and the Villa game.

    I understood the frustration of the calls for change with Arteta and the dismissal of the abilities of a large number of the players. It’s how we react to losing

    The reality is, as Arteta said, we haven’t been in the CL for 7 years or as far for many more. I call that a big stride forward in the development of the players and the management team . I’m not giving Arteta a free pass for anything; only trying to explain why it’s so difficult to breakthrough and remain in contention.

    Arsene Wenger was at the helm for such a long time – most of which included CL football- that it’s difficult for some to accept that rebuilding from his legacy was going to take time. Not quite there yet but on the right path

    To put our loss into some context, City failed at this stage too and were expected to see off RM which on home soil should have happened.

    1. 100% agree. I just hope we beat Wolves because I don’t want to think about the mental strength of this team. Losing to Villa can happen, no shame, losing to Bayern also no shame, dropping points to Wolves and now it starts to look like a collapse.

    2. But Sue there are some who accept that and are shut down
      Go read the comments when I wrote we would to play better then we did against Porto

      What I’m worried about is there seems to be this suggestion that we should be content with just being in CL ?
      If that was case why sack Mr Wenger?

      1. Dan
        I’ve learnt over the time I’ve read and commented on JA that you have a high regard for Wenger and I did read your post when you knew we’d regress. Surely you don’t think that during the intervening years that AW would be back in the top 4?

        I’m not advocating being happy to “just make the top4” but I do try to have a slice of realism in my thinking. I can’t believe that Arteta will be happy to be amongst the early departures every year- going out at the group stage. We made the quarter finals at our first attempt in 7 years. I think that is something to be positive about

        1. SueP, did you watch the press conference from Arteta after the game? He didn’t look angry that we lost. How about the manner in which we lost?

          We lacked fight in the second half, just like against Villa. If you play back Arsenal v Villareal from a few years back, it’s pretty much the same lackluster performance. Olympiacos and Sporting?

          Talking about slices of realism, 5 years this manager has failed to control a European knockout tie, regardless of the opposition. Klopp came to Liverpool in 2015 and won the title in 2020, that’s 5 years. We are at year 5 with Mikel and he’s the first manager that’s been actually backed by the Kroenkes. There should be accountability to why we don’t win trophies, otherwise it’s back to top 4 trophy settings.

          1. Konstantin
            I’ve never had the pleasure of a response from you before

            I have a different viewpoint from you, that’s for sure and I find it’s always better to look at the whole picture and I’d like to think that’s what I do.

            The biggest factor is that Arteta had never managed before and is by my reckoning yet to finish his 4th year so do you not agree that a bit of leeway is deserved? We had 2 seasons in the Europa league and this year. I was not in favour of appointing Arteta exactly because he didn’t have experience but has he been any worse than who was touted at the time?

            I’d be classed as an old Ted! Well into my 60’s and I’ve had the highs and the lows watching Arsenal. I also happen to think that Arteta will learn from this defeat. I disagree with you regarding his interview which I read but didn’t see. Don’t you think that they were all totally deflated? Hardly a good idea to lambast them I’d say.

            As for Klopp, you are talking chalk and cheese. He came to Liverpool with a good reputation but Arteta came with nothing in terms of management

            You are far from alone in expecting Arsenal to win. For now, I’m seeing improvement and a club that is being built with solid foundations for the future.

            1. SueP,

              I respect your opinion and I truly do see where it comes from, but I must disagree. It’s not Arteta’s fault we appointed him without experience and I don’t blame him for that, but do you agree that our performances against Olympiacos, Villareal and Sporting last year albeit being in the EL all share a similar downbeat feeling like we didn’t try hard enough?

              In my opinion we should’ve already learned. What’s your timeframe? If 4 years aren’t enough, how much more do we give him? We sacked Emery in his second season, and didn’t back him like we did Mikel. What could’ve he done if he had a 200+ milion pound transfer window?

              We have no divine right to win, but at least throw the kitchen sink. That’s all I ask for. Throw Partey, Vieira, heck we’re already down 1:0, we need a goal, put Zinchenko on, try to win somehow. We did the predictable Jesus and Trossard subs, moved Havertz into midfield where it hasn’t worked for him at all. If I can predict those subs, surely Thomas Tuchel was expecting it. We were toothless.

              In the league, we had a 4pts lead over Spurs and threw it away in 3 games, last season we had an 8 points lead, threw it away. Last weekend Liverpool gifted the entire control in our hands, what did we do, threw it away immediately. That’s 3 seasons in a row not learning.

              I think Arsenal fans have been patient, too patient. Madrid would never tolerate this. Bayern have told Tuchel he’s gone at the end of the season. Teams that want to win do everything it takes. At Arsenal there’s always an excuse. I just feel like we’re not doing our best effort to be the best, because the target of the owners really is to make money off the club, not to compete.

              1. Throwing “the kitchen sink” is meaningless. Changes to the formation were made as well as the use of additional attacking players in the match against Bayern. Unfortunately, they did not work. This is partly because we still do not have sufficient game changers that we can bring on from the bench.
                We are in a different situation now than we were last season and the year before. We were 5th; and then second last year. We had 69 points then 84 points. It is unreasonable to suggest that nothing has been learnt and imply that there have been no improvements.
                In the PL this season we have not lost against our main rivals. We are still in a title race although we some tough games coming up.
                There are still weaknesses in the squad which will hopefully be addressed in the summer.
                It seems your “solution” to any setback is to sack the manager. Without a considered appraisal this would be an irresponsible approach by the club.

        2. The point is Sue
          We as a fanbase ( don’t know you lol) viewed top as 4 as regression because we were in CL but not trying to win it
          So day Wenger left if someone said in 6 years later we be choking every April / May and being knocked out of CL and fans would call that positive I would scratch my head

          Do I think Wenger could have matched / betterd 8, 8, 5 and 2nd ?
          ( I don’t think he gives away Aubameyang and replaces him with Eddie Nketiah )
          Of course but the irony ? That would t be viewed as success
          Let me stress, Arteta is doing a good job but at this stage of year we play it safe

          1. Let’s agree to disagree Dan as I think you don’t think AW would have brought us back to getting a top 4 place
            Nketiah isn’t good enough to be more than a squad player
            Auba was a different kettle of fish entirely. Brilliant before his new contract but a complete ar**hole afterwards and a divisive individual in a club that was attempting to improve its player discipline

            1. I think Wenger would have as he’s a better manager
              He left with us in Europe….Arteta took us out of Europe
              So this idea Arteta changed the wheel lol

                1. But even he did ..
                  We were told only top 4 wasn’t good enough
                  Think back when Wenger finished 2nd
                  Full circle
                  We just have fans who say it’s better then it is
                  Compare Wenger’s last 4 years to Arteta first … be surprised

                  1. Generally, I find these kind of arguments comparing Wenger last few years to Arteta’s years unhelpful. Unfortunately, you keep bringing them up.
                    In my view, Arteta is doing as good a job as any very good manager could have done given the same circumstances.

                2. Wenger 6 th 5th ( cup ) 2nd , 3 rd ( cup )
                  Arteta 8th ( Cup ), 8th, 5 th , 2nd

                  Progress or full circle

        3. SueP – the big problem I had with the latter Wenger years was that we didn’t even seem to be trying to win the league – we were content with top four and that seemed to have been transmitted to most of the players. It’s why I really struggle to have hard feelings towards rvp.
          That’s the big difference with arteta – he clearly wants to win things and isn’t satisfied with finishing second. Whether he can get us over the line is a separate, but fair, question imo.

          1. Second half at Villa and Bayern where did you see a team try and win

            I guess difference is Wenger actually did win things ?
            We act like Arteta has changed things
            He leaves tomorrow he hasn’t done anything Mr Wenger didn’t do

            1. No, but arteta has consistently taken steps that suggest he wants to win things, like the rice transfer, or being ruthless with a number of players – he might not always get it right, he might not be good enough to win the big competitions (and subsequently his team might not be), but I see the desire is there. He very clearly has changed things – if you can’t see that there’s more hunger in the side than there was before he joined, I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t know what you mean by doing things Wenger didn’t do – the only thing he could really ever do is win a European competition? I want him to at least emulate the success and achievements of early Wenger, I don’t want him to be like that late Wenger.
              Wenger built our best ever sides (certainly that I’m aware of) and won titles in the first half of his tenure – but then he basically gave up on the big competitions. FA cups are nice, but it’s really not the same. Arteta has won us one, and that doesn’t seem to count for much now?

      2. Dan
        I agree with you that we shouldn’t just be in it to make up the numbers.
        If you are in any competition you need to go and win it. Problem is we weren’t good enough for a number of reasons.
        Getting to quarters was a good achievement whi h I said from the start would be a good starting place for us but once you get there you want semis and finals and win it.
        If you look at the teams over the last 2 nights
        Players for player, mangers, club history, experience we don’t compare.
        Whilst BM have had a poor season for there standards they are still a good team with some great players and we’re the better side over two legs.
        Saying that we weren’t far behind them and the damage was probably done for us in the 1st leg when we gave away 2 sloppy goals

    3. I knew Sue will justify poor performance from Arteta. Mentioning Wenger is just odd because Arsene never had such a huge financial support. Please call a spade a spade.MA will not succeed if he remains stubborn as he is.

      1. Did you?
        I have explained my position and if you think that I’m unjustified in my assessment then that’s your opinion to make

    4. SueP
      I thought there wasn’t much in it between the two teams over both legs
      As someone mentioned early. 2 school boy errors in the first leg and defence switching off for a moment last night
      BM used all there experience and know how to get over the line and again mentioned earlier. On a terri le nights sleep and better head this morning I thought BM were slightly the better side over both legs.
      Thought we were the rank outsiders from all the teams left in the competition but still expected us to win as always
      1 front to fight for now and see where we go in the next 6 games
      Until it is mathematically impossible to win it then i still believe
      Onwards and upwards

  8. Yes we are out and is disappointing with defeats to aston villa and bayern now. I think the reason for our end of season collapse is due to overplaying first 11. I can see odegaard and saka extremely tired. If we are gonna bring silverware next year. We need to be serious about some things.

    First 11
    Timber Saliba Gabriel *****
    Rice ******
    Saka ****** Martinelli

    Three important things to address is a Left Back, Box to Box mid , Striker. I feel if any of these not addressed our season will collapse at some point.

    Left Back – Bring in Grimaldo or Tierney
    (Zinny is not defensively good and tomiyasu can only cover not natural position)
    B2B – Vitinha or Guimaraes
    (Jorginho or Partey don’t have the legs anymore to play consistently)
    Striker – Gyokeres/Isak/Watkins/Giminez
    (Havertz is playing well but he is not the solution. He will neva score consistently. Jesus same problem)

  9. With no Premier League team in the semi finals, I’m thinking: are we overestimating the strength & quality of the PL?

    1. Very good point Jax and it crossed my mind too. If Dortmund and Bayern are still in it and BL are likely to beat West Ham- then perhaps the balance of power -so to speak – is shifting

        1. Jax when I said we would have to play better to get to final you said I wouldn’t have gumption to admit I was wrong ?
          Floor is all yours ?

          1. Dan, are you sure you’re not mixing me up with someone else, as gumption is not a word I remember ever using, but if I did say that then I put my hand up and admit I was wrong, which it wouldn’t hurt you to do over your dreadful article criticising the Liverpool supporters for the Paris CL final.

    2. Jax
      The PL is the most exciting league IMO. Where any team can beat anyone on there day but come the end of the season it is normally the same team that goes on to win it as proven over the past 3 seasons
      Technically or tactically we are still behind some of the other leagues but I wouldn’t swap ours for anyone else.

    3. Both City and Arsenal were assembled for more money than their conquerors. Pep won the treble last year and the CL. I dont accept that. City went out on penalties, a lottery. We lost because we were not good enough.

  10. @JAX. Correct, the PL is a bit average. Overpriced mediocre players that are always overhyped. I mean Rice,Harvetz,Raya,Saka,could not show anything for the media attention they get. The managers decisions on selection left a bitter taste.I DONT WANT TO GO ON. EDU and MIKEL have to do better with transfers next season or we will remain the most miserable fans apart from Spurs.

    1. You will always be a miserable fan sshadrach! I am more than happy with our performances this season, and some incredible displays from the Arsenal.
      Onwards and upwards!

  11. If you look carefully throughout the season, Arsenal’s big games were mostly boring matches. This is because emphasis of game revolved around containment of opposition, trying not to lose instead of pushing for win.

    We’ve been overrated this season.

    I disagree with Arteta saying it’s painful. It’s not like we were dominant in either match. Even against Porto we were not dominant over two matches. False sense of achievement in UCL.

  12. On reflection I feel we did quite well in the CL this season. The experience will prove valuable next season I’m sure. We should take a leaf out of Bayern’s book, though. Here was a team that have fallen short this season but still know how to manage a game against Arsenal. Typical German efficiency? We made errors over the two legs and that is why we’re out. Our home game especially. We need to learn from them and move on. I’m still very proud of them and there’s still six games to play. My only hope is that we still have the drive and passion to finish the season as best we can. We can still lift the EPL trophy! COYG!!

  13. The thing you guys fail to understand is that we are not set to go all out and win all competitions it at this stage of the process. Of course, fans won’t be told that for obvious and sensible reason. I’m sure we are set for the trophy haul next season onwards under MIKEL! Quote me word for word when i’m proved WRONG.

    1. I agree mate but fact is were you saying that when draw was made or before last night

      What some tend to do is say …..’ we second faves to win CL’
      Then abuse me for saying we have too a young team who are mentally not ready
      Then we go out …say we mentally weak

      There is no way you look at how we lost 2 games and think we will win all of our next 6 games.

      Your call me negative , I’ll be correct and then your say …..oh didn’t we do well

      And we will have same conversation next season lol

      1. As far as this season’s silverware is concerned, i expect we win the league or CL, along with either domestic cups. i clearly stated it earlier this season, while also saying i wasn’t sure which it will be amongst each of the major trophies and minor ones, i have to admit a double is not on the cards therefore, given we are out of both cups, hence i got it wrong. On your question though, i came to the conclusion that the PL not the CL will be the major trophy we will win this season, reason was our performance on display, especially at home to Porto got me to a conclusion that CL is not the competition we are gunning for this season, rather it’s the league title. i’m confident in the team to get over the line this time, remember i told you this.

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