The Wenger supporters continue to put no real evidence as to why Arsene should stay. by KM
Lately I saw quite a few posts and comments in Arsene’s defence, after a few people had came out with posts on JustArsenal about how the time has come to part with Wenger, including mine, and rightly so in my opinion. So I’m back with another post to put some clearance into perspective.
There was a statement about the other London clubs and how they don’t feel “entitled” to winning trophies. Now there is a statement lacking ambition. No football club is entitled to winning anything. You have to earn your position. And Arsenal’s position over the past 10 years refers to exactly what we have deserved over the course of those seasons.
What drives the desire in people like myself to see Wenger part his ways with the club, is the fact we don’t put in the effort to compete. We have a squad not worse than the one Leicester does, but the desire and discipline over the Foxes side is miles better than it is at Arsenal. We used the excuse that money is something we couldn’t compete with as United and Chelsea dominated the league for a while, but where are they now?
We don’t compete against money anymore, so why aren’t we winning it? I guess there are other factors. Oh wait, West Ham ain’t winning it so we should be so happy right? This lack of winning mentality I guess spreads from the fans all the way to the board. The AKBs sound so much like Wenger himself.
Wenger said something like this “you have to accept that in the Premier League you may win draw or lose a game”. Now this is exactly how you do not compete. With acceptance you’ll never push yourself forward, because any result is practically good enough.
Did you watch the Champions League? Atletico Madrid knocked out Barcelona and what this team did was nothing short of sensational. The crowd booed every time a Barcelona player touched the ball and cheered every touch Atletico made. They were singing like mad and the atmosphere was one you’d never see at the Emirates.
And the players responded. They ran like mad, chased every ball, put bodies on the line, were dangerous on the counter and practically destroyed Barcelona. Atletico was overall the better team in two legs against Barcelona and deservedly so moved forward. They were like a fist – the players, the manager, the desire! Everything was there and at the end they did it in some style I must say!
You will never see Arsene be so influential as Simeone is. Quality wise and money wise Atletico are no match for Barcelona, but other factors played out so that the first two didn’t matter! This is something Arsene is incapable of doing after failing so many times in a row! And still people come here with all their naivety and say we should stick with failure because sometimes in the ever so increasingly distant path, Arsene won a few titles with half the squad left over from George Graham.
The difference between Sir Alex and Arsene is that Sir Alex had a number of generations that won titles over his long span, while Arsene had a blimp, but now he’s just an old man, managing a rich club full of good players just for the fun you know of doing something. No real perspective, no real targets, no ambition.
And last, but not least, I will not back down. I will not give up on Arsenal because Arsenal is not Arsene! People who want Wenger out support Arsenal, but despite similarities in names the truth is Arsene didn’t build Arsenal! Quite a lot of other people helped build Arsenal the way it is, and Wenger is just a face that gets all the applause.
The board made the decision to move to a bigger stadium and increase our revenue. It’s a decision Arsene cannot make. He is just an employee that has to run the football side of things. At Real Madrid not winning a trophy means you are sacked! Does that mean they are more entitled to winning trophies? More than we are? They are just ambitious, unlike us.
I can name at least 5 managers that are worth giving a chance to, way more than Arsene is with all that he’s done for the club! If you want to come out and support Wenger put reasonable statements as to what you like for example – not being able to win a game against Chelsea, Man Utd, Stoke and Southampton away! Humiliating defeats every season! Fourth place, because it’s way better than first. No transfers, no ambition, bad substitutions, injury crisis and all the rest that comes with the Arsene package.
Remember one thing though – we live in the present, Arsene is the past. If you want an example of clubs still living on past glories look at Liverpool and count the years without a league title. It will soon reach 30! If that’s how Arsenal should be looking like, than enjoy Arsene and hope for a new contract extension.
But you have no right to come out and criticise the Arsenal fans who give their money and love and personal time to support the Arsenal. Because we have all the reasons to be unhappy with the way our beloved club is ran like. Because at the moment we are ran like a circus with it’s main clown in the spotlight.
Konstantin
Wenger,The board,The medical and fitness staff,The chief negotiator of transfers,
Aaron ramsey,Jack wilshere,Chamberlain,Walcott,Giroud,Mertesacker,Debuchy,Gabriel,Jenkinson,Sczezsny,gibbs arteta rosicky and flamini all need to be gone immediately
I completely agree with Konstantin. Arsene often looks lost on the sidelines when things are going badly for his charges. He lacks strategy, except to throw down bottles of water Giroud misses a sure goal. Even when his team is losing and people that can’t explain what a nutmeg is if you put a gun to their heads can see substitutions are needed, Wenger will just sit on his chair, wearing down the clock! And when he deigns to make a sub, it is usually too late to change the complexion of the game because by then there’s usually only 15 or less minutes to go.
It is quite clear that Wenger does not have the acumen to hack it in the modern game of football. I could not believe my eyes on 24th Jan following the Per Mertesacker red card he decided to remove a striker and replaced him with a defender. That was a really clear statement of intent on the manager’s part that he had no desire to try and score anything. His objective going forward was to defend the 1-0 loss with everything he had.
Another big problem with Wenger is his blind faith in the same lame ducks, refusing to buy a proper striker because he has Giroud, and that languid French boy by the name of Yaya Sanogo and Theo Walcott. He has clearly lost magic his touch, Wenger, the magic that helped him discover such gems as Thierry Henry. What used to work in his time clearly doesn’t anymore.
Chris Mukkuli
Did you see how Liverpool scored 4 goals and beat dortmund… And we missed on Klopp.. Next year, Arsene will be finished.
Why not just support another team, seems like your only happy with the groundsman… and if you only like them because they grow ‘good grass’ then I am sorry to say it is the wrong type of grass to get excited over.
koeman koeman koeman koeman koeman thats the man we need!
just seen what keown has written today on the mail, he says that wenger gets to choose when he leaves. no wonder he gets away with murder at the club. even the ex players are backing him, it should be club before ex boss mate. the club should decide when he goes not himself. he should be made accountable at the end of the season for the failures, there should be a massive inquest in to what has gone wrong, and the board need to hold him accountable for what ever right or wrong what has happened. he sets the tune that the players play to and that the coaches under him follows.
Silent Stan wants profit, Wenger achieved his goals, why wouldn’t Silent Stan pay him well?
If you want a change in the club then we need to change the owner and get an owner who is willing to fight for titles.
I doubt Silent Stan will hire a manager who wants to win titles after Wenger but a manager who is grateful to manage us and can make a profit.
I wonder what Wenger thinks sometime, all coaches are judged by trophies and that makes them best, Mourinho never had good playing style but the way he wins trophies every now and then his pride and value rises high. Mr. Wenger is busy making money for owners and forgot about trophies, but I don’t think that’s the reason, I think he is old and out of new ideas and what he can only do is make money for himself and the owners, so that he may come retire a wealthy man and cares not about his reputation and any trophy he won. That’s why he doesn’t care what everyone thinks, he has the last say, he does what he wants, he doesn’t care what the fans feel, coz he has that power to do so and no one can do anything about it
“all coaches are judged by trophies and that makes them best, ”
BS.
Ignorance has lead you to spout BS.
The criteria for the manager is dependent on more than just trophies, some teams know they need to build themselves up before winning things and a great manager could be one that builds the team with next to nothing and over achieves with a bunch of under achievers.
OK, here’s one ‘real argument’: under Arsene Wenger Arsenal play sumptuous football. Naturally that comes with some riders, ie the football doesn’t always click, pressing teams can stop us playing, beautiful football doesn’t always win games. I’m sure there are a few more.
Unfortunately in recent years the wonderful free-flowing football we got used to in the early days under Wenger disintegrated into a lot of square passes and possession for possession’s sake. Since Alexis arrived and Ozil found his feet things have improved in this respect, but I’m not sure if the transformation has been player-led or management-led, and it’s far from complete.
George Graham’s Arsenal used to win a lot of football matches without playing beautiful football. Give me a choice and I’d watch a Wenger team any day of the week. Which category do Athletico fall into?
Be careful what you wish for.
Sorry, have you watched us this season? When was out football beautiful?
Give me a grahamesque manager any day of the week. The man drilled, trained and forged a inpenatrable defense and had a team of leaders and most importantly men who fought nail for tooth.
Get Simone and bring that spirit back perrrrrrr…lease.
I had this theory…
If Leicester wins the BPL
If Tottenham are runners up
If Man City win the UCL
If Liverpool wins the EL
What happens to Arsenal’s Champions league place?
This might seem like a long shot, but it’s already happening.
We seriously need change in Arsenal. No more excuses.
Liverpool won’t be winning the UEL Aubameyang has made sure of that!
Liverpool 4 – 3 B.Dortmund
Don’t count your eggs before they hatch.
Aggregate 5:4
Hope you guys saw the motivation from A. Madrid’s coach yesterday and from Liverpool coach today.
LmfAO…….. So really LiverpooL won’t be winning the EL ?
Have u checked the scores update Lately?
Well you could have fooled me?, this is an Arsenal blog but every article you write is about Arsene. Maybe you should take your own advice.
Totally Agree with the Article, But unfortunately! Wenger still has one year left on his contract and the only thing that could possibly see him gone at the end of this season, is the failure to qualify for next season’s champions league.
I noticed that some fan’s on here, are not too bothered about Arsenal playing in the Champions league, mainly because we haven’t gone pass the last sixteen in our last five attempts and some fans even claim to want Europa league instead ?? thinking that would be easier to win! ?
What’s next? … Wanting championship football because we can’t get pass 4th and that the Championship would supposedly be easier to win than the premier league ?
? ?
Please stop that talk! ???
Another muppet who wants an accountant replacing Wenger.
Do you not want people who are great at doing what they do to join us?
To get a manager who can win and as such seen as great at winning titles will not join a team who doesn’t want to win titles but make profit.
Silent Stan will see an accountant as a great manager as his goals are profit.
Muppet? ???
Okayyyyy… So where ? did I say that I wanted an accountant to replace Wenger? ?
Hahaha … I’m pretty sure that Wenger is doing just fine in that department! £££
It would be nice to have a manager that can do the maths against our opponents, though. ?
let me guess… You run out of crack? ?
Muppet isn’t as bad as something I would call a spud, you are a gooner so I will hold back a bit 😛
I replyed just below and it is a wall of text so I won’t spam repeating word for word the same thing.
Gotta reply to crack comment… hmm…
I’m getting some cheep crack later for me and my mates, well I say some crack, its your mums and she does group discount.
Excellent post. Totally agree.
It could be added, that because of his age, AW will have to be replaced in a not too distant future anyway, and I often see the argument, that we shouldn’t get a new manager, because of what happened to Man U. But we will have to get a new manager soon, so why wait? Do we really believe that AW will get us the title within the next season or two, and that it then will be fine to change manager?
With his clout at the club, I can see AW still in charge of Arsenal five years from now.
Chris
Do you honestly believe the next manager will be asked to win championships when Silent Stan has said that championships are not his target?
Or do you think Silent Stan will hire an accountant instead?
Guess you really want that accountant in charge huh?
I would prefer a manager who knows how to win to come in after Wenger and be given support to win things… That will require a new owner first though.
Wtf are you talking about man? ?
Where ? does it say anything about wanting an accountant to take Wenger’s place??? ?
You think Silent Stan will be able to get Pep if he wasn’t off to City?
Who do you think Silent Stan will get when he has openly said he does not care for championships?
The guy wants rid of Wenger now, not when the fans have united against Silent Stan and forced him to either sell or put more desire into winning things.
With the desire for profit then what type of manager do you think he will get?
You all have got to think about what you want carefully before acting like a bunch of mindless lemmings rushing to jump off the nearest cliff.
You want Arsenal to win stuff, to have the desire to fight in every game for 3 points? That is what I want and I would guess most Arsenal fans would want something like what I want…
We are not winning and that is an issue, right?
So we will need to start somewhere to find the fault, rather than being random and jumping in at the middle, why not start at the top? At the guy who owns majority of the shares and gives the targets for the board and team to reach?
Does Silent Stan want to win the EPL and CL… If yes then we can move on.
I read that he does not care about ‘championships’, I question what he meant by ‘championships’ rather than just saying the league… maybe he means the league or maybe he means being champions in anything? I do not know but I fear he means the latter, either way we want to see Arsenal win the league, right?
Right at the very top we have a difference in what we want.
Can we skip over this and jump on down to Wenger?
I believe we can not as Silent Stan will set him the targets and maybe even offer him a payrise.
We can swap Wenger for.. lets say an old head of banking that was rushed through the coaching badges to manage Arsenal.
Would you or I give that guy a payrise if he wasn’t winning? I guess you would say no, like I will say no.
Do you think Silent Stan would?
I think he would if Silent Stan seen a boost to his asset value.
That is what I believe to be the real fault.
We can QQ about what-ever manager is in charge but unless we can rely upon the owner to at least match our desire then we are setting ourselves up for disappointment and will never get past moaning about the manager unless we get lucky and find a gem of a manager who has a lucky couple seasons.
I do not want Wenger to be replaced by a manager who is better at managing the books than managing the team of players, you might and I am being sarcastic by saying you and he want an accounting in charge instead of a football manager.
Do you understand now?
Arsenal’s proposed Future at it again
SwanseaUn21 (3:1) ArsenalUn21
Hmm…..
My first choice to replace Arsene was Ancelloti. Too bad that’s no longer possible. However, there are lots of managers that would find the prospect of coaching Arsenal attractive. In no particular order:
Pellegrini
Pocchetino
Koeman
Martinez
Bouldy
Mourinho
Emmanuel Petit
Paul Ince
Justin Bieber
My 1st choice is to support the movement thats growing against Silent Stan, aim for an owner that wants to win ‘championships’ and then if Wenger still doesn’t win, look to get a manager that will be asked to win trophies over profit.
You think Silent Stan will break his own reason for buying AFC and hire a manager who wants to win more than worry about profit? LOL!
Koeman
@KM
For all your ranting and raving, coupled with your myopic obsession with everything Arsene. You have shot yourself in the foot here, as before. You have made the case that Arsene is arsenal, if he is to be blamed for all of AFC’s shortcomings as well as their achievements during his tenure as manager.
The pretzel logic you use is comical at best, claiming we have better players than LC, yet the “desire” is not there. Oh thats right, Arsene is the reason for lack of fight or passion among the players also.
Would be interesting to read what you pen, when the next manager fails to live up to the expectations you have for your”beloved club”…
Well said.
What are they going to say about the next manager who is hired to balance the books over winning titles?
Oh and do they actually think that Silent Stan could get a manager like Pep.. EVER?
Would Pep destroy his own reputation and come to manage a club where he might have random players bought or sold from under his nose?
How much more evidence is needed for Wenger to realise he is no longer up to the challenge. Regardless of the boards lack of ambition it is clear that others have and continue to do more with less.
Wenger should really take a long and good look at himself and decide whether he still believes he can move AFC forward.
I, looking at past evidence and the achievements of others believe this is far from the case.
Thanks Arsene, but pipe and slippers time.
“There was a statement about the other London clubs and how they don’t feel “entitled” to winning trophies. Now there is a statement lacking ambition. ”
No, it is a statement of truth, they do not inherently deserve to be the EPL champions, neither do we. The winner is the team that puts in the best over the whole season, this time it wasn’t us like the previous years.
“No football club is entitled to winning anything. You have to earn your position.”
Contradiction in 1 paragraph, wow. Good start LOL!
We have to EARN the title and that isn’t a lack of ambition, that is being humble and working hard to achieve what you want. The Foxes have done it, they wasn’t entitled and look how much fun their fans are having because they wasn’t arrogant enough to believe they was entitled to it. This is entertainment and should be fun at the end of the day.
“And Arsenal’s position over the past 10 years refers to exactly what we have deserved over the course of those seasons.”
Yes.
Now have a look what changed approx 10 years ago, look at the changing variables and use the thing in your head FFS! What changed? What factor was removed and never been replaced? Then you will start to see the real issue, the underlying fault which will continue to be there with new managers. I can’t believe someone with such ignorance is telling us that Wenger should leave, we should listen to enlightened people and not blind arrogance.
“We have a squad not worse than the one Leicester does, but the desire and discipline over the Foxes side is miles better than it is at Arsenal. ”
Ranieri is a magician and he is working WITH the board and team, there is a difference in how the CLUB is ran and this will have an effect on EVERY EMPLOYEE. Do you not understand how players like Ozil might be questioning themselves for joining us after reading that the owner doesn’t want to win championships but rather have the profit? The players may be affected by Silent Stans words and no manager in the world can guarantee that players will not be affected by the owners words.
“We used the excuse that money is something we couldn’t compete with as United and Chelsea dominated the league for a while, but where are they now?”
Teams which haven’t changed their manager in a few years right? Different situation, we have our situation and a solution for us isn’t a carbon copy of UTD or Chavski, the way to get a resolution without lying on blind luck is to look at Arsenals situation as Arsenals situation.
“We don’t compete against money anymore, so why aren’t we winning it?”
Because Silent Stan said he doesn’t want to, are you stupid? The owner has said in clear words why we are not winning. The desire from the very top is profit, safe profit over titles. How the hell do you think Ozil and Alexis feel when they read that? All of Leicester players who all thought they wouldn’t be where they are and playing without any pressure, same for the spuds. Different situation and pointing at other teams which have different situations will do nothing but keep the vicious circle of blame going like a bunch of idiots.
“The AKBs sound so much like Wenger himself.”
BS, where is your evidence of this?
I believe that AKB for the club out of all the people that do run it yet I do not believe he has final say. A lot of AKB are pointing to Silent Stan and Gazidis as factors which are hurting us more, they might think that AKB but they also think that Wenger doesn’t have final say and that is an issue. You AOB idiots will be moaning to get the next manager sacked when they do not win anything because the faults have not been delt with, lets get the real issue resolved and that is the clubs owners desire, if Silent Stan will not change his mind over the clubs objective then us fans should unite against that. If then Wenger becomes the issue then we will unite against Wenger, at least make it so the next manager will be one to win the title rather than balance the books!
“Wenger said something like this “you have to accept that in the Premier League you may win draw or lose a game””
SAF has said similar stuff, it doesn’t mean they are happy with a draw or lose, they have to accept it and move on otherwise they may dwell on the loss and turn that sole loss into a bad run. How stupid are you? SAF knew this and he was one of the greatest managers to get the best out of his players and never giving in, even he would agree with Wenger. SAF knew how to win titles, I would listen to him over you K.
“Did you watch the Champions League? Atletico Madrid knocked out Barcelona and what this team did was nothing short of sensational. The crowd booed every time a Barcelona player touched the ball and cheered every touch Atletico made. They were singing like mad and the atmosphere was one you’d never see at the Emirates.”
Yet AOB want Arsenal fans to boo and to protest at home games, make up your mind you damn hypocrites. Either support the team and be like the AM fans or keep being miserable gits and moan at games, your choice. My choice is to keep my cash in a ISA until we get a new owner and a passion to win and then I will spend it all to show my support.
“And the players responded. They ran like mad, chased every ball, put bodies on the line, were dangerous on the counter and practically destroyed Barcelona.”
AOB making bad stuff happen ^.^
Maybe if you actually SUPPORT THE TEAM then the players would feel it more and put in more effort?
Yet I await to read the next article moaning about Wenger and saying we should boo and show negative bannors which will not do what the AM fans did for their team.
“You will never see Arsene be so influential as Simeone is”
BS, I don’t think Simone could influence a team to fight for a whole season and go unbeaten from that desire.
Wenger had the backing of the board back then though, the changing factor years ago was a change on the board and this had a change on the clubs goals.. knock on affect.
“The difference between Sir Alex and Arsene is that Sir Alex had a number of generations that won titles over his long span, while Arsene had a blimp, but now he’s just an old man, managing a rich club full of good players just for the fun you know of doing something. No real perspective, no real targets, no ambition.”
No, the difference was that SAF had more influence on the board and he had the full backing from the board in any decision he made, Wenger lost his backing when Dein was forced out the board. That is the changing factor years ago which you failed to spot and keep spreading BS because you refuse to acknowledge this FACT.
“And last, but not least, I will not back down.”
You sound like a religious person.
“I believe in my god, I will not back down even when shown evidence… I will refuse to acknowledge that evidence and write articles about lack of evidence to support my ignorance.”
Dude, learn to realize that even Hawkins will back down on an idea if you shown him evidence, stupidty leads to blind faith and blind faith leads to trouble in the world. Grow up!
“Wenger is just a face that gets all the applause.”
Yet no other manager has gone unbeaten in the EPL, yes he had great support but there was a cohesion and this cohesion is the winning formula. Wenger is a great manager dealing with a really bad owner. When he had Deins support then look at the players we bought in… Dein was here before Wenger and we didn’t buy in the Anelkas and Henrys back then did we? Rioch got Bergkamp but after that it was Wenger and Dein together, a combo. You can’t have the greatness of Dein without the partner of Wenger. Dein was here with Rioch and well… we still got Wenger in didn’t we. Dein didn’t need to find anyone else after Wenger, Wenger was a great manager and Dein knew that.
I’m sick of your crap, I can’t be bothered to teach an ignorant fool who is as stubborn in their beliefs as those ISIS terrorists.
Learn to evolve your thoughts and then maybe you will be an intellectual worth debating with, until then I will flame every post you make.
Reading the article and comments made there under shows one thing, acres of space chewed but lack of logic. This is made possible by magnifying negatives, making up facts, omitting facts that contradict line of reasoning, and down playing undesirable facts. If decisions were to be made based on this warped logic one thing will be certain, failed outcome.
I will highlight some of the flawed reasoning and distortion of facts. Winning championship is not a priority for Stan. This falsehood is based on an article that was published here some weeks back. The article was based on what Stan was quoted as having said at some conference in the USA. Nowhere in the quotes did Stan say he is interested in profits not winning championships. He stated that “if you wanted to win the championship you would not be directly involved in the management of the club”. I know English is not the first language of some fans considering the global nature of the fan base but that statement says the opposite of what has been taken as fact by fans on this forum. Stan is simply saying Arsenal will have the best chance of winning the league if he is not directly involved in the running of the club, which is the case right now. So how does that translate into saying “I prefer profits over winning championships?” Is he not the silent Stan anymore?
Income generation does not matter but spending to win the league matters. This is the most silly argument one can come up with in the real world. The club needs to generate income to be able to spend. The club cannot spend beyond its means and hope to survive. The latest financial results show that Arsenal made a loss of around 5 million pounds. The club has never declared a dividend for a while now. Its last financial results show fluctuation around the beak-even point. Unless fans here want Arsenal to be the next Chelsea or Man City the club is doing what it can given its financial circumstances. N.B do not bring in the Leicester argument, because one season is not enough to make comparisons. Do not bring in Atiletico Madrid in the argument because their current squad was built from child trafficking rather than spending.
I would want to make reference to the choruses about Arsenal needing to buy Schneiderlin and Benzema last summer, who would have cost a combined fee of 80 million pounds, probably with a combined salary bill of 12 million pounds per annum. This would have added 28 million pounds to the club’s costs for the year ending August 2016. Already the club has made a loss of 5 million pounds. On the income side the club would have sold Benzema and Schneiderlin branded material. How much that would have raised depends on new buyers not switchers. The club could have sold Flamini thus make savings on his current salary, which ranges from 2.6 to 3.6 million pounds depending on who you listen to.
Considering that both Benzema and Schneiderlin did not have a season to talk about wherever they are playing, the next chorus would be buy another striker! buy Kante!. This would mean another round of expenditure. All in the meanwhile running expenses would be rising faster than income. In five years time the club will be in administration maybe after winning one league title plus champions league trophy. Would the same fans and so called analysts loud that business model or they will bay for the blood of Stan, Ivan, etc, from leading the club into demise. The point here is club finances matter as much as trophies do, and if rated on a scale club finances are far more important than trophies because they guarantee club longevity. A view to the contrary simply shows a person living in the fantasy world.
We need a new shareholder, Stan should go because he is not willing to spend his money in strengthening the club. As noted in the last paragraph, Arsenal are breaking even, therefore if they are to spend without going bankrupt the club has to rely on external funding, which in this case will be a loan from shareholder or equity injection. In the some total fans are saying we want an Abramovich type shareholder or Etihad type shareholder. One who can sustain the club from his personal money. If that person decides to switch interests from soccer to formula 1 for instance, then that will be the end of the club. While Chelsea, Man City, and PSG represent medium term success stories of the model, we should not forget that there are clubs like: Malaga, Cardiff, Monaco, the Russian outfit with Moglabach or something like that, which all failed under that model. I would have appreciated it if fans were clamoring to buy Stan’s shares rather than try to offer Arsenal to some egotistic sugar daddy, who like LSD can give momentary joy.
Liverpool’s qualification for the semi-final of EL shows what a manager can do. That will never happen under Wenger. This is nonsense. After the first leg, Liverpool needed a 0-0 draw at home to proceed. Within 12 minutes they were 2-0 down. Where was Klopp? Is he not responsible for team tactics? Only a week ago Arsenal lost a 2-0 lead to draw 3-3 against West Ham. We never heard about the Bilic effect. All we heard was how rubbish the Arsenal team is. Why are you not saying the same about Dortmund considering how soft the goals they conceded were. This comeback would not have happened under Wenger. Really? Arsenal came back from a goal down to win its two matches against Leicester this season. Arsenal traveled to Olympiacos in December 2015, with one leg out of the champions league, but returned in the round of 16 draw after a convincing 3-0 win. Arsenal came back from 2-1 down against Tottenham to draw 2-2 with a man down. These results are for this season only. In 2011/2012 Arsenal came from 2-0 down to win 5-2 against Tottenham. In the same season the team twice came back to win 5-3 against Chelsea. There are so many games where Arsenal fought to get unlikely results under Wenger.