Mikel Arteta has often admitted when taking on his first managerial job, he sensed a lot of things were wrong with the club he used to captain.
Thanks to his ‘non-negotiable’ principles he’s started to correct a few things at Arsenal.
There is now an atmosphere at the Emirates, with a connection between Gooners and Gunners.
There is a clear identity in how we play.
He’s sat down with Josh Kroenke, Edu and BFG and devised an action plan in terms of recruitment.
A former player in the red and white shirt, he’s qualified to know that Arsenal have long had a reputation for class.
Legend has it that Harbert Chapman paid out of his own pocket for the Highbury entrance to be painted marble red, because he wanted visitors first impressions to be that this was a club who did things the right way.
That’s why it’s important for the Spaniard that Arsene Wenger starts to get the respect not all of our fanbase gave him in his final years.
It began in January when the Frenchman returned to the Emirates for the first time since his last game as manager. He got a standing ovation from the majority inside the stadium.
It’s continued this week with the most successful boss in our history becoming the 5th man to have a statue unveiled around our ground.
Showing the dignity of the man, Mr Wenger never gave a reaction when he was essentially sacked.
In his last game as manager, he smiled, said goodbye, waved and walked away.
In reality he was hurt and disagreed with his treatment, having ‘left my heart’ at Arsenal.
He had said a year before that he would ‘never forgive’ the ‘disrespect by some supporters’ and was worried the club were losing the proud values he had helped nurture and support.
He said that on the eve of a Final with his job under pressure. That’s how offended he was.
That he’s worked with FIFA since without the need to point out the irony of our decline shows his decorum.
There’s certainly some on social media who deserve to witness our fall from grace. YouTubers built views on who could shout the loudest and say the most swear words.
They would often complain that it was unacceptable for Arsenal to only be finishing top 4 and winning the FA Cup.
The very same people then had the audacity to call 5th success last season.
I can find you readers on JustArsenal who praise Arteta for essentially doing what they criticised Mr Wenger for.
The 73-year-old could have highlighted our regression, pointed out how the grass wasn’t greener, how he never finished 8th, how he always ensured we had European Football.
He could argue that his worst years match the current regimes best.
How he did that by always having to sell his best players and not having the resources to compete.
Yet he had the self-assurance that the cream would rise to the top, that goodness prevails.
I always maintained that only when he left would we realise how difficult it was to qualify for the Champions League under the current ownership.
Every year under the struggles of Emery and Arteta it’s made some more appreciative of how hard it was to ‘only’ make top 4.
While he kept his dignity, the likes of AFTV had to kick off Wenger’s biggest critics for racism and breaking the law.
I think some of my peers have more understanding that while he calls ‘Highbury ….my soul, the Emirates my greatest suffering’, it’s at our current home where he maintains he did his best work.
Highbury is the era where you can discuss how he revolutionised the sport in England.
How he fulfilled an ambition to make a team not just win, but by playing beautiful football.
The Arsenal brand was many times bigger after he left then when he arrived, largely due to how we played.
He prolonged careers by dietary and training methods that the rest were not using.
He had an unbelievable ability to spot a gem and turn them into a world class player, even spotting a position a player could play that the player himself couldn’t imagine.
Some have tried to belittle his achievements, saying he didn’t know how to build his own defence.
A myth ……Lehmann, Ashly Cole, Lauren, Campbell and Touré all came after Wenger.
That was the back 5 that didn’t lose a League game in 2003/04 so they must have been good at defending?
Some say he left Arsenal a mess when he left.
Go back and see what he walked into in 1996!
At the Emirates, where he once sold players beyond the age of 30, it was now standard to lose them at their peak.
Banks would pull on his emotional heart strings.
They would only loan money to cover the debt of building a stadium if Mr Wenger stayed.
UEFA revenue was crucial to our finances.
The board would sell a Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, etc and keep the majority of that money, and still Mr Wenger would find a way to meet his targets and ensure that revenue.
Not many could do that.
I shudder to think what our financial situation would have been without Mr Wenger.
I have had the honour of meeting him and he told me this was his proudest body of work.
That if he was simply being judged on trophies he could have gone to a Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, PSG, etc and had more medals.
Yet being loyal meant more.
His biggest mistake maybe?
Because the loyalty he shown wasn’t shown back by some fans.
I hope slowly people are recognising what a job he did.
12 months ago, our chief executive called 5th an achievement!
That never happened under Mr Wenger.
He finished outside the top 4 twice in 22 years.
Emery managed that on his first try while Arteta has done that 3 out of his 4 years as manager.
There will never be another like Arsene Wenger at our football club.
No one comes close.
His statue is cast in bronze, but he produced golden moments.
Dan
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I think “never” is a big word. I do hope that MA breaks his 3 EPL titles by winning 4 EPL titles and a Champion League title. MA has the backing of owner’s son. We have spent 600 millions. My expectation is minimum second this season and EPL title next season. Take note that MA cannot consider new manager anymore.
Record is to be broken.
Quite confident he wont
You sure don’t know Mikel,do you?
I think winning three prem and 7 FA Cups takes some doing
And on balance no I dont see it
Arteta finished 8th , 8th ,5th and 2nd
Wenger in that time , 3rd , 1st , 2nd, 2nd
He finished 4th in his first season. He also had the great defence.
Nope …. finished third
My apologies, you are correct. Three teams finished on the same points, Newcastle, us, the Liverpool.
Dan
There is no doubt Wenger is the greatest managers we ever had but like Henry Norris, think he has crossed the line on a few occasions.
Too much excuses were made about the financing of the stadium which led to some credibility issues.
They are times when the squad was depleted because of injuries and short due to one reason or another and Wenger refused to replenish the team.
I remember just like yesterday Peter Hill Wood having to come out declaring money was there and available yet Wenger refuses to spend.
Remember Hill Wood in an interview rubbishing claim as absolutely nonsense, and that Arsenal was offered money. I remember Wenger responding he wasn’t going to buy for buying sake.
The legendary Frenchman was just too obsessed with balancing the books and that’s where I think he crossed the line.
But by then his hunger was long gone.
I agree with you. Wenger, particularly in the first half of his reign, was fantastic.
But he was also at the root of our decline. He tried to pacify the fans with financial nonsense, failed to move on with the game, and left us in a state that required years to rebuild.
Some of our most embarrassing moments happened under his watch. He thought he could rely on letting his players express themselves creatively without much discipline, and when the level of our players started to drop, that was never going to work.
There is no shame at his age of failing to grow with the game, Mourinho, an unpleasant little man in my book, was much more successful than Wenger but also failed to adapt to the new times and his career has also fizzled out.
Wenger pushed the boundaries of the game when he arrived but perhaps as a result of his job security, was left behind towards the end of his time with Arsenal.
That has no bearing what the future holds,as you’ve outlined yourself you can see Arteta is improving while in Wenger’s case we all know how it ended.
Arteta is at the beginning of his managerial tenure with those positions; whereas Wenger was at the end of his.
I just hope Arteta and Edu can win major trophies for Arsenal, more than what Wenger won for us. That could make Wenger proud, if he sees his students continue his legacy
That about sums it up Dan – brilliant piece of writing.
Now let’s hope that Mikel Arteta can produce the same kind of record.
With the belated support of the Kronkies, everything is possible in my opinion.
What’s that old saying, respect is a two way street. Disrespect the match going fans and they will disrespect you.
As for the defence in the Invincible season. It was the idea of Keown that Toure played at CB. Strange he never gets the credit for that.
With fans like some of those on AFTV and within the Emirates stadium, who disrespected Wenger and his family, what respect do THEY deserve?
None whatsoever and they are one of the the reasons Arsene stayed away from the club for so long
I have nothing but contempt for those who believe they can do and say anything to others, but get so upset when they are given the same treatment.
Wenger disrespected the match going fans long before the fans disrespected him !!
How ?
They were disrespecting him from 2008 onwards HD – just read some of the posts on here and Dan’s question is such a good one, so what’s your answer?
AFTV never came about till 2012.
I didn’t say it was AFTV in 2008 did I? I said to read some of the posts on JA!!
By fielding weakened teams in semi finals, firstly in ’08 in the 2nd leg in N17, and then the following season at Wembley against Chelsea in the FA Cup. In that game he started Arshavin on the bench, saying that Hiddink, being Arshavins national manager, knew how he played. Difference is, Hiddink played him in his natural position, as a number 10, whereas Wenger played him out wide on the left.
That was disrespecting the fans?!?!
So because you didn’t agree with his team selection and the reason why he made thise decisions, he was “disrespecting” you?
Lordy, lordy, lordy!!! I thought you were going to quote where he wished fans partners I’ll health, or catching them at train stations and publically swearing at them etc etc… but not to play Arshavin was disrespecting you?
So, is the fact that MA doesn’t play Tierney disrespecting me, or watching his team collapse in the last five games disrespecting me?
Does this allow me to target his family with vile messages?
Good God, we do have some entitled so called fans on JA.
So you are obviously happy to get battered by our rivals then.
It wasn’t just me. Many match going fans were up in arms over the selections on the message board on the club’s website !
Let’s also not forget his lying and blaming the match going fans for the teams failure to win the PL in ’16 !!
It certainly does.
That’s not disrespecting the fans ?
Really 🙄
No getting a decison wrong in sport isn’t the same as verbal abuse
Arteta In last few years as gone out of cups due to resting players , doesn’t mean he should be sworn at
There’s no excuse to abuse a person’s family, which I’ve always said.
Fans having to take time off work, having to travel to a semi final against your bitterest rivals, and then seeing that performance, they have every right to voice their opinions.
I travel from Scotland for every game I attend.
I have every right to voice my opinion, but I would never claim that ANY manager disrespected me because he selected players I didn’t agree with.
Neither would I target his / her family, or try to humiliate him / her in a public place.
I disagreed with some of the decisions MA was making in his first two seasons, but I supported him at every GAME, no matter what.
I guess that’s the difference between us HD.
You answered your own argument though ….no excuse to abuse a person’s family
So you agree
@ Herr Drier….In picking those teams in the semi finals and in leaving certain players on the bench Wenger was doing , rightly or wrongly, as manager what he thought was best for the club, that is not disrespecting fans.
Your words were on your first reply to me. “With fans like some of those on AFTV”.
Yeah he said like, that implies there are others
And I stand by that – I didn’t say they were from 2008 though did I…. deflection once again HD.
Ken, its obvious that you are a proper Arsenal supporter, “Dan” too id guess. My first instinct is to say don’t lower yourself the way you have in responding. “HR” having a go at AW is fair play, to each their own, and he isnt totally wrong with some of the criticism, but I think I understand your point; we are all humans, there has to be a line and some supporters(?) crossed it toward the end. I didnt want him to go at the time tbh but in hindsight it was probably the right decision. The teams mentality had gone.
Herr, you make some decent points (not about Arshavin, that is purely opinion and I disagree) but sure, yes, there were poor decisions, but its hard to objectively judge some of them, and subjectivity is just that.
No need to argue tho, I think you are both making decent points and want the same outcome…The Arsenal back where we belong competing for trophies and feeling like the title is an option. We are a “Top Four” club, unfortunately for us our weak period came at a time when football is growing so getting that right is trickier than ever. For those that know BELIEVE, for the new supporters….Believe, and believe a bit in the old heads who are here to offer guidance as to how to support this amazing club. We are all in this together as supporters. COYG
Sorry for long opinion post
Arsne Wenger is a generational manager that comes about every now and then, his man Management and how he went about structuring the club was phenomenal.
As it relates to sheer coaching the team and instilling discipline will be a little easier for successive coaches to achieve.
Can’t say “Never”.
Lets get away from definitive proclamations about the future. Can’t predict the futre that is always fluid..
Wenger is our greatest manager at the moment. But he is the individual that got us to this level of global recognition.
We don’t know what will happen in the future but it will be a massive undertaking to match his achievements or even out do them..
Can’t say never but you can be realistic
I think winning 3 EPL titles in more than 20 years is very doable and realistic for any other manager to be honest.. Many managers at different clubs have done it and more..
It’s not some unrealistic thing that another manager couldn’t do. Circumstances permitted..
You can’t say “NEVER” about anything other humans already do. It’s already been done by wenger so that means that anyone else can do it depending. As long as it’s not some magic / supernatural occurrence.. It’s a naturalistic record that can be broken..
I seriously find “DEFINITIVE TALK” about fluid future occurrences to be naive.. Terms like “NEVER” when used to predict the future make me a bit 🫣🤯.
Not really , the odds of a manger staying that long for a start are huge
Can you name me say ….5 Prem managers who have won 3 Prems then ?
Add to that, seven fa cups, a squad of Invincibles in the league and a brand new training centre and home ground.
This is some unbelievably biased thinking. I’m sure some did, but I never criticised him for only finishing fourth, I, and many others, criticised him for treating fourth as success, for setting the bar lower for such a long time. We finished fifth and lower after him, yes, but the club was a shambles when he left – of course not entirely because of him (far from it, I’m fact), but the next manager was always going to have a tough time. It *needed* someone to come in and gut the squad and completely change the mindset. The important thing was to set the bar higher, which, frankly, arteta has always done, while providing the understanding that we’re on a journey (process), so not too expect instant success.
Wenger was a company man – he pushed the propaganda the club wanted you to hear, so I don’t take everything he said seriously, and don’t have endless sympathy for the fact a good number of fans became unhappy seeing the same issues year after year. We had no money, but always paid among the highest wages in the league, to players who weren’t good enough to seriously challenge for the league? Something doesn’t add up here.
I hate having to write this – the man is a legend, our greatest ever manager and is one of, if not the most, influential figure in the history of the club (and of the Premier league), and I’ll always associate him most with the good times, when he had Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Campbell etc etc etc and guided them to greatness – but he’s a human being and not everything he did was perfect, so there’s no need to pretend that he was.
But last season many treated 5th as a success ?
Different context, as explained in the comment – importantly, it wasn’t celebrated as a success by arteta. He’s always stressed the need to get better.
By others it was though like our chief executive
Not sure of the relevance – maybe that shows everything still isn’t great at the club, but at least the manager isn’t going along with and/or hiding behind the false positivity put out by the execs.
Davi, do you think he was open about the pay curs, the redundancies, Ozil?
Sometimes one has to follow what your employer wants you to do – especially if you love your job and want to keep it.
Of course – there is a need to stay on message and the manager and those with executive roles need work as a team, absolutely, but there are limits and those situations are not the same.
Those you bring up are to do with handling very awkward situations with contracts and employment (all very awkward and more than a bit ugly imo – very good point btw, I don’t like it, and Wenger, *may* have gone off script to try to protect some of those people), but the 4th place trophy idea is about the entire reason the club exists. Is arsenal a club that’s looking to be competitive and win titles, or is it about just doing enough to make it to the champions league so it can make money?
I’ve no doubt arteta would leave if he didn’t think the club had the ambition to win titles – I don’t think wenger would have joined the club in the first place if we didn’t have that ambition at the time, but he changed along with the club. Imo he should have left – the club wanting to win titles should be a “non-negotiable” for any arsenal manager.
So MA wasn’t truthful with the fans, is that what your saying?
It sounds like you’re after a gotcha?
I don’t know if he was truthful or not – I honestly don’t, but it’s not the “being truthful with the fans” part that’s most important to me, because they all tow the company line to an extent, which means they all lie (typically by omission) or dress things up to seem more positive than they are. *What I’m saying* is, wenger went past the extent I think should be acceptable for a *football* manager.
Your question about Ozil, redundancies etc is a good/interesting one – from a humanitarian/decency perspective, maybe arteta crossed a line also. Unfortunately, I can’t say for sure.
I’m not looking for any “gotcha moment” , just asking your opinion.
What I don’t understand is why Arsene was / is villified for allegedly following the “company line”, while Mikel is seen in a completely opposite light and, in fact, is praised for doing exactly the same thing.
OK – to be honest, I think I explained it pretty well. Following the company line isn’t the problem in and of itself – your cutting question was very useful for identifying this in my mind.
Arteta has not followed the company line where it really matters from a footballing perspective (assuming the chief exec did say 5th was a success), whereas wenger did, and that goes against what I believe should be the mission of the club.
I do agree something doesn’t smell right on the issues you raised. Unfortunately, it’s just less clear cut, so it’s difficult to come out quite so strongly against arteta for it, and it’s less relevant to the role of football manager because it doesn’t directly relate to football.
I don’t think arteta was particularly praised for following the company line on redundancies or pay cuts? Maybe you are correct on the Ozil situation, though – I’ll agree with you there – but it doesn’t break the non-negotiable, for me. Arsenal managers shouldn’t be accepting 4th as a trophy. Doing so was very damaging for the club because aiming low is a recipe for decline.
I thought we finished second last season????
Yes, we did? Don’t think I mentioned last season?
Ah I see what you mean – I guess Dan meant at the end of the season before last
I think he knows that lol
Yeah I was being slow
Arteta for a novice is doing a good job and of course he has spent half a billion to come to where he is.
Comparing Arsene and Arteta is bit idiotic. Arsene is the unmatched legend for Arsenal. He revolutionised game and delivered invincibles.
Arteta gave an FA cup with Unai’s team and Auba’s goals. After which we climbed steadily with ££££ spends. Now after 4 seasons he needs to deliver trophy(ies)
My guess is Arteta will move out in a season or 2 if he doesn’t deliver to Barca or Italian or french league having gained the experience with Arsenal and start “revuolding” those teams.
One quality or skill Wenger brought with him to arsenal was that of being an economist. by that he was immediately able to evaluate and tap into the productive capability of a individual or group. *Nice write up by the way.
I don’t think he had the enormous fan base of either LFC or Man Utd to tap into their financial resources but he was instrumental and integral in this club morphing into what is now a world brand with a noteworthy stadium. I’m 60 (now) Iv see those managers that went before and those that came after his tenure – including his (wenger’s) naysayers and detractors.
I will always see wenger as a great part of the arsenal story and growth too – iv many fond memories of when we were in our pomp. Even I recall it was ashley who was injured for weeks and gael clichy (another wenger’s player) that deputized for the initial months on the way to the invincibles milestone.
Nevertheless things change and today I thank wenger for choosing arteta the midfielder and endearing this club to the spaniard. Ill stick my neck out and say arteta will surpass wenger in terms of cups and titles as a joint endeavour. Its not every premiership manager that has the accolade of being a protege to wenger and to guardiola, so some underestimate the skill set, potential and wherewithal of arteta perhaps its their big mistake. Personally I think the arsenal were in good hands for a large period with mr wenger and against all odds we are in good hands with the inspirational arteta. Many of those who wanted arteta out in the early parts last season were ringing his praises during the latter stage of last season. Wenger and Arteta are a breath of fresh air far as I see and being as we’ve a very young team this will not change for many many years.
Nice article but I bet we’ll definitely have a manager to surpass his record,in fact we already have him.
5th season as Arsenal manager and one FA cup
At least 3 of those years was clearing up the colosul mess he inherited, and we’ve also still got likes of Pepe that we can’t get rid of.
That mess he inherited won him his one and only cup .
Yes, by allowing them do their thing that happens to be unhelpful long term.an introduction of his ethos and philosophy led mass fallout with big names hence the proper rebuild that has had us finish three places higher every season with attractive football from the youngest squad in the division.
Not sure finishing 8th then 8th again showed an improvement of three places vamos and there wasn’t attractive football until last season… then, of course, we took off!!
Upon his arrival we finished three place higher off 11th.
NB:I’m referring to all of his full seasons.
I do found our football impressive for a young side two seasons ago when it was obvious we starting to have a different style of play that only got better with quality addition and of course more rid of our deadwoods.
One minute your praising MA for finishing up 8th after being 11th when he became coach, the next your saying your judging him for his full season only.
The latter fits into your account of finishing three places higher each season, so are we to conclude that it was both MA and UE who won the fa cup in his first half a season?
. By the way, the football when we finished fifth, was nowhere near what we saw last season and I compared finishing 2nd to some of Arsene’s finest seasons, apart from that Invincible era – nothing can compare to that…. at the moment anyway!!
You can’t compare a league competition with a cup competition as the first is a series of games over two legs (Home and away) while the other is a knock out (you get beat you’re out regardless of venue). So the fact that MA improved on UE standing to 8th can be down to both men in charge over 38 games of the season while in the cup, a manager can only play the ones the previous manager had managed to keep the club in.MA was fortunate to meet the club in FA and EL cups where he won the first and loss the latter which in my opinion is down to MA as he has all the power to keep us going unlike the already recorded poor record in the league and the carabao cup exit where there is nothing he could do about it.
So UE and MA failed in their efforts during the PL season, but succeeded in the “easier” fa cup competition.
Interesting then, that he failed so badly in the fa cup after that, while still finishing 8th the season after in the league.
Meanwhile, Arsene (apart from his last two seasons) never finished outside of the top four and, in fact, his previous three seasons saw him improving from 4th to 3rd to 2nd, while winning the fa cup a further three times …. all while the club, supposedly, was in such a terrible mess.
A genius he certainly was!!
On our football in the campaign prior to the just concluded, the football on show was similar with the inverted FB tactic,quality new additions and xhaka new role helped improve our goalscoring as the chances we were able to create that season was not taken as much as last season’s cos of auba misfiring and behind the scenes distractios that has thankfully been sorted prior to last season.
…Precisely the point.^^ Clear up that mess. And in doing so he’s now two of the finest young players regarded in world football. Thing is this whenever our fans are intent to find fault they will highlight fault – similarly when were looking for qualities we can see these. Its no mistake that other reputed clubs acknowledge arteta already and that is despite the myopic mindset (blind as a bat) of some of the arsenal fanbase.
Wenger walked into a mess and won the Prem in his first full season
Arteta finished 8th in his
That fa cup bought him the time and trust to get him started with his long term “process”.
FYI this is just his fifth season we are about to witness as of next month, so it’s one trophy in four seasons.
Depends which way you look at it
About to enter his 5th season but won’t have been manager for 4 until this coming December. We last won the cup in 2020 which makes that 3 years ago. All very confusing!
Not confusing at all ,it’s his 5th season as manager ,simple really
Deflection Deflection Deflection.
We all knew what DK was saying, so why make a point out of nothing?
There’s a difference between a Head Coach and a Manager 🙄
How daft can some be to fail to differentiate between a year and a season?
Lol,just had to assume his trophy winning season was a whole season.
Cringe AF
Sinky, just like his hero, blaming others 😂
Obviously the joke was lost you
English please sue .
Might be able to respond then .
And I’m not sure where any joke came into it .
Maybe I missed it 🤔
unsurprisingly DK I wasn’t replying to you
“Clear conscience fear no accusations” sueP,I’ve got no idea why he is bothered except of course he is the one who made the blunder😉.
Based on ?
You will find out eventually, just like you did regarding our top four chances😋
Is that the top 4 which wasn’t good enough under Mr Wenger ?
Top four was regarded a “trophy” under Wenger hence good enough under him which he eventually fell short of two seasons upon dismissal (5th and 6th).
But he won the fa cup in one of those seasons and just missed fourth spot again by one point, while we still had european football.
How are you going to judge MA and in what time period, remembering that it’s his fifth, or is it fourth, season coming up?
At least the culture has changed under MA (not accepting top four as a trophy) and now has his own set of players so I think this is the achievements phase of his “process”. How long will his proposed dominance and taking us where we belong mission will last remains to be seen.mind you the competition during Wenger’s earlier years can not be compared to this generation as was evident during Wenger’s years itself (his decline),yes he achieved but only when it was a easier.decided to be behind the money bags Chelsea and united then city eventually,let’s leave pool and Leicester aside.
“a lot easier”
Yeah Arteta’s done that 3 times yet thats okay ?
Yep, a trophy he ranked higher than the domestic Cups 🙄
Based on?
Where he found to be inept, reckless or otherwise complacent the owners would not be found to be backing him with the funds that they are now. Its not something billionaires do ie they don’t see a dud and immediately afford it backup. where is any merit in that? Anybody coming after would be tasked to rebuild that rapport that arteta has with his employers. Jus saying. It used to be that our reward for good performances over a season was to see our best players being sold off – or they pis**ed off of their own volition – Based on? nobody wants to move on now which is because players believe as well as the owners that arteta is that guy.
👍
Side topic: Just read from ESPN and YouTube that Arsenal is expected to make a bid in the coming days for Brentford GK David Raya 🇪🇸 🗞️ [Fabrizio Romano]
GAI, Sylvia, me and many have criticised Ramsdale’s performance in many articles.
This rumor seems to have legs.I’m watching their PL summer series clash with Aston villa right now and he is not in the starting line up.he might be on the bench though.
When are we going to drop the 5th place saga? As the years go by it becomes less and less relevant to the subject of whether Arteta is doing a good job to have finished 2nd last season. Why do we have to keep on about it? Does it actually matter now?
That’s not necessarily true.
We may get a manager who helps win Champions League or a double or a triple
Yes it’s highly unlikely that we will have another invincibles but I can see us having a manager who wins us more trophies than Wenger
That said Arsene is definitely an Arsenal legend and deserves the statue
For me Raya is the better keeper but if we get him then neither him or Ramsdale would settle gor being a number 2 would harsh on Ramsdale but Arteta has already shown he is ruthless and wants to win trophies so would do anything to achieve it!
As usual an article to praise Wenger while trying to sidestep the growing evidence that we were not progressing during his last few years notwithstanding the cup wins. Not unexpectedly praised to the heavens by those that can see little to find positive in the necessary changes that Arteta brought to an underperforming squad.
The author is seeking praise for Wenger whilst at the same time attempting to undermine the work that Arteta has done over the last few years to transform the club.
The lack of context in comparing Arteta’s first few years to Wenger’s tenure is also staggering in it’s mindless devotion to the legend of Wenger.
Wenger needs to be praised for what he brought to Arsenal. However, he left a team and ethos that needed significant overhauling. Arteta has shown the vision and determination to make the necessary changes which have led to Arsenal becoming once more one of the most valuable squads in world football.
Time will tell whether Wenger will be surpassed; it is unnecessarily dismissive of our current and any future managers to proclaim that Wenger will not be surpassed.
Also you should ask players who were there during Wenger’s later years that have insights into Arteta’s methods and they will tell you the level of training is higher now than at any time during those Wenger years.
“ Also you should ask players who were there during Wenger’s later years that have insights into Arteta’s methods and they will tell you the level of training is higher now than at any time during those Wenger years.”
Please link those players comments ,would love to read them David
When Arsene arrived:
1. He inherited a club that, about six months previously, had seen GG sacked for taking backhanders in a transfer deal.
2. He inherited a culture of drink, drugs and a complete lack of any dietary requirements for a professional footballer.
3. He inherited a squad of players that the previous season had finished 12th, the worst position in 19 years.
4. We were knocked out of the fa cup in the third round, by Millwall in the same season.
4. The much vaunted defence had begun to show the effects of point 2, by shipping 49 goals.
The only time during Arsene’s reign that his defence let in more, was his last season.
5. Bruce Rioch had been sacked after six months, during which time, the atmosphere at the club was so toxic, even Ian Wright was handing in a transfer request .
Now I know time can cloud one’s memory, but within two and a half seasons, we were winning the league, winning the fa cup, players were on strict diets, alcohol and drugs were banned, the defence were letting in 33 goals and Wrighty etc were praising the way Arsene’s had turned the club around.
That’s what Arsene inherited and achieved in two and a half years.
Wished things were the same today, where our 80 plus points would have won us the league unlike the more complicated now.
Strewth Ken, you’re way off with some of those points.
1. Wenger was appointed 19 months after GG was sacked.
4. In 2012 the team also conceded 49 goals, was that down drink, drugs and their diets ?
5. Rioch was the manager for 12 months, not 6 months.
As for the drink and drugs, Tony Adams had given up alcohol over a month before Wenger was announced and Merson had given up the Columbian marching powder.
That team that finished 12th in ’95 came so, so, close to creating a record of being the 1st team to successfully defend the CWC.
Plus Wenger inherited a well run club, and a quality squad of the likes of:
Bergkamp
Parlour
Keown
Adams
Seaman
Dixon
Winterburn
Bould
Wright
Etc…
What was the league position or any success of that well run and full of talents club before Wenger?
Not in bad shape overall. A European Cup Winners Cup, 2 league titles,, Fa and League Cup wins
Really? A quick google search shows me Arsenal went 7 seasons without winning the league before and 5 without the FA Cup before Wenger, and only 4 players from the 90 squad were in the 98 squad winners. The league position before Wenger in those seasons were 4th, 10th, 4th, 12th and 5th. I cant find which position was Arsenal when Wenger joined.
European Cup winners cup? Is that a trophy to be proud of? I don’t know about it.
My question still stands, what did that quality squad Wenger inherited achieved before him?
I just suggest you check out the record of George Graham who managed the club pretty successfully I would say. He blotted his record by taking a bribe and was replaced by Rioch who Wenger succeeded.
Your derision of the Cup Winners Cup is pathetic to be honest. It was a fully fledged European trophy. Just because you were clearly too young to remember it shouldn’t diminish what the Arsenal achieved in that season.
You also obviously have little idea of just how good the list of players were as provided by Jen if you need to question the quality that Wenger inherited. Bergkamp? Seaman – England GK and the others all played for England in the outfield.
You need to accept that there was life before Arsene Wenger and whilst some years were lean, overall when George Graham got the job, we became winners again. The stats I gave were from his time at the club and are not to be sneezed at
Neither is what AW achieved but you have this blinkered idea that nothing good happened before he arrived or since he left
I dont know that trophy that is why i asked you is is it a trophy to be proud same as EL or CL?
The way Jen have put it, (as she always does) and we both knows where she is coming from even if one of us won’t admit it, is that it was not Wenger ability that turned the fortunes of the club and that squad in such a dramatic way.
What did they do before Wenger came? A European trophy in 94 and league title in 90? What happened after that to a well run club with a wealth of talented players?
This will get deleted but Jen is WO and why am I not surprised you came to her defense?
The advent of the premier league and the changes to how European football is run did away with what went before. Instead of being knockout matches, leagues were formed and a European trophy for winning the equivalent of the FA Cup in all the countries disappeared. The league winners only entered from each country unlike the league we have now and being a knockout cup meant never getting away with having an off night. The Europa league is similar to what was the UEFA cup except that then only about 2 teams directly below the champions competed. Not like now where we have 4 plus the Europa and the Conference
I hope, HH this helps
SueP, George Graham is unfairly undervalued as a player and manager at Arsenal FC. Thank you for your post.
As for taking a bung, that was a media beat up and GG’s actions were common at the time, with other managers (including very high profile ones) getting off scot free. GG was not on the equivalent of £8 million per season at the time.
Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Bould, Winterburn. That’s 5 players from the squad that won the League in ’91 that also won it in ’98.
Yes the CWC is a trophy to be proud of, as it was ranked 2nd to the European Cup. You entered it by winning a trophy, not by finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th. It was also the first European trophy that Wenger got to the final of, losing 2-0 to Werder Bremen in ’92.
Correct Jen, and 3 of those players were in the Invincible squad.
1. Correct. I got that wrong and AW was appointed nineteen months after GG was sacked for taking money he was not entitled to, leaving a stain on our club. If one feels that error was meant to mislead in any way, I can assure you all that it wasn’t.
2. You agree
3. You agree
4 You agree, but mention 2012… we finished 3rd not 12th and we improved our league position by one, not falling 8 places as happened in 1994 /95.
Alcohol and drugs might have played a part in 2012?
Just another attempt at being disrespectful HD?
5 For the last six months Rioch was manager in name only. DD and AW were already agreeing on players and, as I explained, that was why DD was able to get Ian Wright to withdraw his transfer request, by promising him that big changes were about to take place.
Another example? Patrick Vieria, but I’m sure you knew that didn’t you?
As for so nearly doing anything, I can also give instances – the CL final? Now that would certainly have made history wouldn’t you agree? What about “nearly” winning the PL last season? Well up until the last five games that is, but we still made history by becoming the first club to have led the PL for so long, yet still lose it… have I got that right?
Strewth, out of the six points made, I’m way out on one, you agree on three, make a nonsense comparison on another and deny there was no drink/drug diet culture that makes up the six.
I suggest you read Dennis Bergkamp’s autobiography, where he discusses such things as diets and drink within The Arsenal when he arrived.
Now, about Arsene being disrespectful by not choosing the players you wanted him too?
Care to admit YOU were wrong?
He doesnt need to read it Ken. he should go to YT official channel and watch the documentaries of DB10 and others.
Ken, you posted that conceding 49 goals showed the effects of “culture of drink, drugs and a complete lack of dietary requirements”. I asked you that when we conceded the same amount of goals in 2012 was that down drink, drugs and diets ? Funny how you can use those 3 things to blame for conceding that amount of goals in ’95, but offer nothing for us conceding the same amount.
I would say that we all know why Wrighty asked for that transfer, Rioch kept on about how one of his former strikers played, and Wrighty got fed up with it.
Please show me where I disagreed that there was a drink/drunk diet culture at the club.
As for Dennis Bergkamp’s autobiography, Stillness and Speed, yes he mentions the drinking. Here’s what he says.
“It was something I couldn’t understand! Pre-season we went to a training camp in Sweden and trained twice a day. In the evening I went for a walk with my wife and saw all the Arsenal players sitting outside a pub. I thought it was unbelievable.
The funny thing is you never noticed it in training because they were so strong and the always gave 100 percent”.
As for the so called bung affair. Why on earth would a Manager go to a bar that was co-owned by one of his employers and used by club officials to receive money he wasn’t entitled to ? Surely he would go somewhere secret ? Also why would he haggle down the original asking price, as there would be more money to be made if he didn’t haggle ?
Ken1945,
In season 1994/95.
Goals For: 52
Goals Against: 49
Goals Difference: +3
Points: 51
Rank: 12th
In season 2011/2012
Goals For: 74
Goals Against: 49
Points: 70
Rank: 3rd
Goals Difference: +25
Ken, I now await the re-evaluation and restoration of the reputation of George Graham, as an excellent player for, and great, highly successful manager of Arsenal FC.
Deserves a stature, if anyone does, regardless of past indescretions.
February 21, 1995: George Graham was Sacked By Arsenal, Wenger joined in October 1996, a bit longer than six months
David: “However, he left a team and ethos that needed significant overhauling.” — Do you research before you made this statement?
All these data are compile from ESPN Soccernet. These are true data, you can verify easily.
LEGEND
————
App – Appearance
Sub – Substitute
St – Start
1. The first 11 in AW’s last season i.e. 2017/2018 are:
App Sub St
34 0 34 Petr Cech
38 1 37 Granit Xhaka
35 1 34 Hector Bellerin
32 6 26 Alexandre Lacazette
28 2 26 Nacho Monreal
27 2 25 Sead Kolasinac
27 2 25 Shkodran Mustafi
25 0 25 Laurent Koscietny
26 2 24 Mesut Ozil
26 4 22 Alex Iwobi
26 6 20 Henrikh Mkhitaryan
2. The first 11 in MA’s first season i.e. 2019/2020 are:
App Sub St
30 0 30 Bernd Leno
36 1 35 Aubameyang (debut on 3 February 2018)
33 1 32 David Luiz
31 1 30 Granit Xhaka
31 9 22 Nicolas Pepe
30 8 22 Alexandre Lacazette
29 12 17 Lucas Torreira
26 7 19 Bukayo Saka
26 7 19 Sead Kolasinac
24 5 19 Matteo Guendouzi
24 6 18 Dani Ceballos
Only 3 of AW first 11 are in MA first 11.
David: “However, he left a team and ethos that needed significant overhauling.” — The fact is overhaul already done when AW left. Most players left with AW.
DON’T FORGET THAT Aubameyang, Xhaka, Lacazette and Bellerin help MA to win 2020 FA Cup. These 4 started in 2020 FA Cup final.
This bring out 1 problem i.e. MA is inflexible, he can only have players who play his style and cannot accommodate them but to ship them out. This is a topic for Dan and Ken1945 to explore and write article.
“He left a team and ethos that needed significant overhauling”.
Nothing you have written disputes this. Wenger left the club. He didn’t take those players with him.
The fact that Emery started the overhaul but was involved in a number of missteps does not hide the reality that the squad left by Wenger was never going to be challenging for major honours such as the PL.
How many of those you have listed from Wenger’s squad last squad have gone on to be a truly top player after leaving Arsenal?
Winning the FA was great for Arsenal and helped Arteta gain some credibility. However, even then it was clear that the squad would be unable to compete effectively against the likes of Liverpool and MC across a season.
Every manager who wants to achieve things needs players who believe in, understand and are able to implement his methods and ideas. So your so call ‘problem’ does not make sense.
Cringe 🤢
Well, the very reason I came to love Arsenal as a club was during Arsene era. The way he used to make absolute average players look collosal on the pitch, and still compete for top 4 consistently. That’s what made me watch Arsenal. Also the football Arsenal played under Arsene was beautiful to watch. I am a sucker for beautiful football. I don’t like the kind of football where the teams score choreographed goals like robots. Wenger’s Arsenal felt so expressive, creative and humane. I have a belief that if people felt they could do what the players do, even with relative difficulty, they wouldn’t watch them! It’s that wow factor that makes people go nuts. And Wenger’s Arsenal gave me that. Magic and swagger, which I had never seen in any other teams. Everything else seemed formulaic. Honestly, I find modern european football very boring. It’s all about managers, their tactics and the clubs and very less about players. Anyway, staying on topic, Wenger made me a Gooner. And I will always be grateful for that. What he achieved, was collosal. To remain in the top 4, with the squad he had in the last decade, must have pushed him to his limits.
Exactly Daulat, in a nutshell!!
The funny thing is that my Dad will never accept that my generation is better and more interesting than his…so I can understand if the above 50s on here believe the best of Arsenal as a club was during Wenger or before … But one thing is for sure either they like it or not, either they agree or not Arsenal will be far better and more successful in the coming years than ever before … Because the reason each an everyone of us are still Arsenal fans should not be limited to what was achieved in the past but the expectations of what to come as well… It’s not necessary that MA will be the coach to achieve it all but surely a manager will definitely surpass what we already achieved.
👍
Maybe this should be an interesting topic for admin to follow up on, coaches making mistakes, it is a relevant topic in my opinion.
How many of us is banking on Tossard to start base on sheer performance, Smith Rowe, Teinrny and others.
Coaches do makes mistakes like everyone else, one has to just hope it doesn’t become a pattern.
A coach makes a player decision base upon individual skills that blends into the teams needs.
The coach also decides on a player choice now that is really base upon the future.
A coach makes a decision based upon balance of skills. For example, you might be an astronomically better striker than the other guy but the team is loaded with versatile strikers.
The team may need a midfield ball carrier as opposed to a winger.
Sometimes it could be just that a player attitude sucks and the coach doesn’t need a player enough to put up with a toxic attitude.
All the above reasons suggested negativity towards the coach that may or may not be justified.
GG won two trophies Wenger never did, the League Cup and a European Trophy, plus the two titles not bad for the time he was in as manager
👍
I would have liked to see Wenger manage a team like Man City. A team with a lot less financial constraints on transfers than the Arsenal he managed thru the latter years.
A team without the money grubbing Gazidis he was inflicted with at the end.
The way Wenger was treated at the end, I am surprised he agreed to the statue.
A truly Great Manager!!!!!!