I noticed a trend is setting in whenever Gooners choose to praise Arsene Wenger.
Even those lucky enough to meet the man in person are patronised if you refer to the Frenchman as the greatest manager in our history.
We are told it’s because we grew up with him and therefore didn’t know what came before.
While it’s true I wasn’t alive when Herbert Chapman was our coach, I know my respect for the Frenchman isn’t based on nostalgia.
I will often refer to the 72-year-old as our most successful manager simply because it’s a factual statement.
We live in a world where the meaning of language needs to be protected.
In 2021 everyone has a voice and an opinion.
Yet some things are simply factual.
It doesn’t matter if it’s not what you want to hear or doesn’t fit into your agenda, you can’t change stats and data no matter how much you wish to protest.
The grass is green!
The sky is blue!
No man has won more trophies then Arsene Wenger.
Normally in sport, the medals, the trophies, etc is the metric used to measure teams’ success.
If you wanted to use a different criteria (why would you?) then even, then the subject is unrivalled.
The style of play he brought to England is world renowned, players have credited him for prolonging their careers thanks to his training and dietary methods, tactically he taught talent new positions, he countless times spotted a gem who either went on to win things or made a huge profit
Financially he left Arsenal a richer club then the one he found.
Why does it matter?
Why can’t we celebrate both historic figures?
Of course, we can.
I have zero issue with anyone celebrating Mr Chapman’s accolades.
I simply will not have a next generation of Gooners wrongly educated.
It’s wrong that a young fan thinks saying ‘Mr Wenger is our most successful manager’ is based on his popularity and dismissed as a nod to a childhood.
It dismisses my knowledge and discredits what the man did for us.
So here goes …….
Chapman won 2 titles
Wenger won 3
Chapman won 1 FA Cup
Wenger won 7
So, it’s not outrageous to say 10 trophies is more successful than 3?
Even if you want to argue that illness meant Chapman’s tenure was 9 years, in Wenger’s first 9 years he still was more successful….
Chapman after 9 years won 2 titles
Wenger won 3
Chapman after 9 years won 1 FA Cup
Wenger won 4
Including other jobs Chapman won 8 major honours in 28 years.
So, with 4 clubs Chapman couldn’t win what Mr Wenger did with one.
For the record, based on their entire career …
Mr Chapman won 8 trophies compared to Mr Wenger’s 14.
Chapman took over a club which had been battling relegation and was seen as an innovator in terms of the systems he introduced.
Yet you can’t use context for one and not the other.
When Mr Wenger arrived in England were not title contenders, had become a cup team, were called boring and had a drinking culture at the club.
Mr Wenger changed all that.
So, in the week that his movie Arsene Wenger: Invincible has been released in select cinemas (on Amazon from 20th), the reason most of us call Mr Wenger our greatest ever manager is simply …. because he is!
Dan
GG
+1
We are lucky that there is even a debate to be had. Both are legends. Let’s just hope we don’t have to wait another 60 years until another name is put in the mix.
The only article that ever made sense since this website was launched.
@Sean Vassallo
RealTalk 👍🏿
It’s a fact he was more successful
10 trophies to 7
He won 3 times more
Agreed
Not just because of his superiority in the number of trophies. But also because modern day football is far more scrutinized, using modern technology such as VAR and sensors in the balls
Had we implemented those technology in the past, Maradona’s Hand of God would’ve been disallowed. Modern day coaches also receive better education and have learned from the old tactics/ systems, that makes today’s competition far more difficult than Pele’s time
Sorry but Wegner did not have to deal with VAR. If he did there might not have been an invicibles.
HC didn’t either, so what’s your point regarding the two managers?
Christ you dont know what your talking about do you . Chapman won 2 titles???!!! Dear god he won 3 in 4 years, but died in January of the last one. To exclude that from his achievements is especially small minded. Plus consider he came 2nd the year he didnt win it, but won the cup. He re imagined training and tactics. And he did it all with the club coming from a much lower base than AW inherited
No he won two titles
That’s like saying Lampard won the cl
yeah, or Emery won the the FA cup when Artea took over half way through season.
Wait, maybe FJ won it as Arteta took over from him as interim.
Any manager can win a trophy. Di Matteo won Champions League. Where is he now? Who even remembers him?
Hose Mourinho won a lot of trophies. Who respects him? Who admire him? Who remembers him?
The great Arsene Wenger revolutionised football. His methods have been adapted as standard in world football. Which manager can match that?
Watching Arsene Wenger teams play was not just watching a game of football, it was watching art, beauty and experiencing Zen.
Watching Arsene Wenger teams play you became one with the game, in body and spirit, a delightful 90 minutes of pure joy and happiness.
A great football manager is much more than just winning trophies.
Arsene Wenger is the greatest manager to have ever lived.
Hated the guy but Fergie alas was the greatest manager ever, the success speaks for itself
Loved Wenger but definitely not the greatest manager ever he has never won a European trophy not even a UEFA Cup.. I fully agree with foreverinourshadows Alex Ferguson was the greatest manager I’ve ever seen 13 league titles, 5 fa cups, 2 European cups, cup winners cup, the club world cup and his success with Aberdeen also another cup winners cup..
And great managers are great through the success they bring to the club not by playing easy on the eye football, not that I’m saying Wenger wasn’t great but his trophy count isn’t as high as some of the better managers and that’s what goes down in history.
He is the greatest to me I should have said. Wenger’s teams made me see football in a completely different light and to me that is worth much more than any number of trophies.
The closest I had the same feeling was watching the Brazil team of late 90s early 2000s.
No one said greatest ever
Said Arsenal’s greatest
“Arsene Wenger is the greatest manager to have ever lived.”
@HH
Am always with you on Arsene Wenger.
GG League and FA Cup in one season, won the league by beating the best team in the land by two clear goals at their ground Anfield, Won an European trophy by beating a team full of star players.Asprilla,Zola and Brolin. Two trophies Wenger failed to win a European and the league cup. Wenger did revolutionize Arsenal, but GG would have beaten Barcelona in the final with the same circumstances.
I find it curious how anyone can compare a current living legend to a long departed one.
The world is unrecognisable to the one HC lived in…. can anyone imagine our players of today standing in line with their kit on, singing “for he’s a jolly good fellow?”
I can only compare AW with the managers who I saw at the club with regards to tactics, results and trophies.
I have no idea what the above was in HC’s days…. except for trophies and even that cannot be compared, simply because the world of football has changed.. example… the “goal” that Newcastle scored in the cup final that was a yard out of play, but counted and we lost the final.
Today, VAR would disallow it.
For me, AW will always be the man that propelled our club to heights I could only dream about and, if anyone was still alive today when HC was the manager, I’m sure they would have said the same thing about him.
Great post KEN, especially as you make it obvious that it is your opinion, not a fact.
Just as I claim it is my OPINION, though not a FACT , that Chapman was our best ever,for the reasons I explain in my post below.
My PRIME reason for my OPINION is that HC built a great club from absolutely nothing, while AW took over a club that had already been world famous for approx 60 years and had already won many titles and cups.
Ok there is a big argument for Wenger but to dismiss GG so obviously is damning to the article, he won the league, FA cup, League Cup and cup winners cup as wel as the double double.
I agree Reggie, the 89 achievement was unique and will probably remain so
He also built a team from scratch and won the first League title since 71, 18 years on whereas Arsene not only won his first League title only 7 years on he did so with George’s back 5, inherited Ray Parlour from George and Bergkamp from Rioch
Although he had the reputation of being defensive if you look at the stats of the 91 Champions against the “Invincibles” it’s pretty close and only losing away to Chelsea that year stopped George’s team being the invincibles before the “Invincibles”
Having said that I absolutely loved having Arsene as the Manager of the football Club I had started supporting over 60 years before and I think he just about pips it for me out of those two
On a personal level though it would have to be Bertie Mee (who also won a European trophy) as my favourite memory Manager given how bad we were in the 60s it was ridiculous we did the double in 71 (as Spurs had done in the 60s) at WHL, just as ridiculous was that Bertie had become the Manager from being the Physio!
Mainly though it was because of my age, at 17 I went to games home and away (inc that game at WHL) with my mates and absolutely loved it
I 👍👍👍
But not as much as Wenger
Look im not arguing but GG won a the league cup and a European trophy, which wenger couldn’t and for reasons obvious didn’t get as long as wenger.
Opinions are opinions and facts are facts That AW was our greatest ever manager is simply an OPINION and it is Dans opinion and doubtless many others opinion too.
Who is the best ever is clearly a subjective opinion and so being a fact cannot be truthfully claimed. Such as who is our best ever player too. My OPINION,though it is not fact, is that it is Henry. Others will have various other opinions .
Also fair enough, as all opinions are valid.
But opinions cannot be facts DAN, AND AS A BRIGHT MAN YOUOUGHT TO KNOW THAT . That last part of the preceding sentence was also only an opinion, in fact mine.
But I do not claim it as factual, as it evidently cannot be , just like Dans OPINION on AW too.
FAIR ENOUGH to have an opinion. But when you claim opinion as fact, which it cannot ever be, you need to be challenged Dan, so I do so here!
My personal OPINION as to our best ever manager is Herbert Chapman, who took over a nothing, also ran club and in less than nine years transformed us into a world famous club and the best team in world club football – which AW could never claim to have done – and one that has been world famous for sixty years already when AW became manager.
It is the modern day equivalent of taking over, say Carlisle, AND MAKING THEM WORLD FAMOUS IN LESS THAN NINE YEARS. For AW to seriously rival what Chapman did, he would have had to have won several CL titles and more Prems too in his 22 years .
AW’s 3 titles in 22years compared to two in less than nine yearsfor HC, which became three in nine years a few short months after Chapman died, prematurely, four months befor his third title.
AW failed to win a European title in 22 seasons. HC never had the CHANCE to play in Europe!
FIRST CHAPMAN THEN , SECOND WENGER, THIRD GRAHAM.
Not to mention Chapman’s Arsenal player contribution to the England ream, which defeated World Cup holders Italy in the “Battle of Highbury”.
Apples and pears. Just as you can’t compare boxers across weights and eras neither can you compare football managers or even players from different generations.
They both revolutionised football in this country, they both won a lot of trophies and changed the public perception of our club, but within totally different situations.
Let’s stop bickering and just agree that they were both GREAT managers.
👍
If a tennise player won 10 grandslams
And another one 3
Which one was more successful ?
talk about beating a dead horse…we get it your love for Wenger is seemingly boundless, but for you to suggest that the overwhelming impetus for producing this article was the notion that there was some sort of ongoing contentious debate over the moniker of best Arsenal manager ever is incredibly disingenuous…it’s blatantly clear that you will use every opportunity to heap praise on our former manager, unfortunately your opinion is so overtly biased, as you functionally know nothing else, that any comparisons will logically fail to measure up…not to mention, you never provide a balanced perspective as you have a tendency to gloss right over his obvious missteps and shortcomings…as such, this was little more than another nonsensical exercise in hero worshipping and self-promotion…please keep in mind, that I was a huge admirer of the pre-Emirates Arsene, but I’m unwilling to simply ignore his less than stellar years when I’m assessing the totality of his tenure here
TRVL well said mate 👍👍
Strange thing to get worked up about lol.
What comparison did I get wrong ?
I can only judge what I have seen with my own eyes. On that basis AW was the best manager I have seen at our club. Not only did he win trophies, he won them with style and put the Spuds in their rightful place. But for him we would not have seen the likes of Henry, Petit, Viera, Pires, Overmars, Gilberto, Campbell etc. etc. My opinion though!
Wenger and Chapman are both legends but arsene takes it with what he changed and made arsenal into and for that we thank you Arsene👍
The biggest mistake during 2 decades of Wenger’s reign is moving to Emirates. Had we stayed in Highbury, we would have won a lot more trophies, and with that a lot more investors..
Now that would make an interesting article Gunner4life, how about you do a article, explaining your thoughts?