Mikel Arteta has been at Arsenal for four years, during which time the Gunners have won an FA Cup and two Community Shields. Even though Arsenal have three medals to their name, they have yet to establish themselves among the finest clubs in Europe at this moment in time.
The Gunners, under Arteta, appeared to have rediscovered their competitive edge last season, as they led the league standings for 248 days and might have easily won the league if they had been at their best in April and May.
Winning the Premier League last season would have been the ideal way for Arsenal to announce themselves as the real deal, but they failed to last the distance
They have that opportunity this season because they are at the top of the league and should be wiser and more experienced to keep the PL title battle going. That being said, they are also in a position to win the Champions League this season as well, having booked a knockout spot, and will face FC Porto in the round of 16 after dominating the group stages and finishing top. They can also win the FA Cup again.
According to Mikel Arteta, the time is ripe for him to deliver further success to the Emirates, as he claims they have yet to win the big trophies that he craves. so when Arteta was asked if he was have with his trophy haul after finishing 4 years as the Arsenal boss, and he said: “I’m sure I would (have taken that). But we still haven’t won enough important things and we want to be better and more successful.
“(There are) A lot of things we have achieved together in those four years but that’s nice for the people that have been in this journey with us together and the ones that are behind us as well.”
Many Arsenal fans would agree that despite the obvious improvement he has brought to the team, it now needs to be backed up with some silverware to show fo it. I, for one, am confident he will reach greater heights very soon, what do you think?
Sam P
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A believe there’s a lot more to come. Our first being this season. COYG!!!
Patience grasshopper. We are doing fine, the silverware will come.
For me, he’s already proven himself. We would have won the league last season if it wasn’t for a crazy amount of injuries.
He’s resurrected a dying club, and I actually look forward to watching Arsenal these days.
Yes top of the league now but not after tonight’s game as Villa will be top😊. Anyway seriously, I think Arteta has proved himself to be a top coach as he had a load of crap to sort out, and has gradually got rid of most of the deadwood (I hate that description but seems to be ‘de rigour’ for a lot of fans on here) and stamped his personality on the team. Some fans need to be a little patient, but it’s a marathon not a sprint and I certainly have seen progress. I won’t use the term ‘process’, (oops I just did) but that is what it is. I’m sure great things are coming and that we will win a trophy this season.
After the awful start to his managerial career at The Arsenal, Mikel has certainly proved he has the ability to get both players and fans behind him – if he doesn’t win something this season, then there will be dissenting voices.
Something to remember though… of the three “trophies” two were achieved when, it now seems, we were a “dying club” with no injury problems.
I seem to remember we had won the fa cup two seasons previously and Mikel won the same trophy with the same players, before he started on phase one.
Let’s also remember that, under previous managers, the Community Shield wasn’t considered a “trophy” but, if we are know including that, our “dying club” should actually ADD another SEVEN trophies to AW’s list.
Strangely enough, the only other “trophy” MA has won, was when we finished second to city in the PL and only qualified because city had won all three domestic trophies… so, while it was great to be there and see the boys lift the CS, it was only by default, rather than by our own achievements.
Our “dying club” has actually achieved nothing of note, if the same criteria was applied to Mikel as it was to Arsene and Unai… but I’m full of optimism for the future and hope that Mikel can become the most successful manager we have ever had, but another seven “trophies” now added will make that even more difficult for him.
If he doesn’t, does that mean the club has now died and gone to the crematorium, along with the once in a lifetime injury list that has befallen us?
KEN WHAT “once in a lifetime injury list that has befallen us”?
You are vastly overstating a not too bad injury situation. We have many times in both our watching career had FAR worse injury sitations than we do RIGHT NOW.
ONLY TIMBER AND PARTEY are key players injured for any real length of time. THAT is nothing out of the ordinary at any club, nor of ours.
Saka, Rice and Saliba, who most consider our MOST important players, have NOT missed games through injury hardly at all, of late.
Dont panic Captain Ken!!
Jon, that was a tongue in cheek observation to Jen’s comments about Mikel’s injury problems – thanks for confirming my thoughts EXACTLY!!
Like you, I have never considered the CS as a trophy and neither has the club, as they list all the trophies around the inside of the Emirates.
What I was surprised about though, was that, under MA, it has suddenly become something we should measure MA by… and if one visits manure’s official website, they DO include their wins as “trophies” so perhaps the club should do the same?
As for our “terrible injury list” I cannot understand WHY we let Tierney out on loan – he would be the PERFECT player to mark Salah.
Just watching the var for a villa penalty… shove in the back not given by the officials WHY?
Ken
Whilst AW won the ups and don’t get me wrong I love him to bits bit we stopped being competitive in the league
Ma hasn’t won it yet but we now seem to have a shot at actually winning it rather making up the number’s
More so the fans actually have belief we can win it rather then come December we are out of it
Onwards and upwards
The only difference we have AB, is that I ALWAYS believed we could win the PL under Arsene.
Apart from that, I agree with you, so onwards and upwards my friend.
Ken1945
I had long given up on a PL title under AW but did believe in the top4 trophy because of its profile.
Not in any way dismissing his years of dedication but we just couldn’t get over the line
Not many clubs have. Do I think that Arteta is more likely to succeed in bringing a proper trophy to the Emirates than in Wenger’s latter years? Yes I do on what I am feeling and that is with much stiffer resistance than the Arsenal/Utd period when Arsene ruled supreme with Fergie.
To be clear
I meant another title
SueP, I can only speak for myself and, every season, we were in the chase for the PL up and until the same collapse we saw from MA’s squad last season.
We also progressed to the KO stages of the CL and would then draw either Barca or Bayern who, at that time, were the two real forces in Europe.
As for the fa cup, it wasn’t until his last season, that AW never failed to get past the third /fourth round.
So I never gave up on Arsene and, while you say that the competition is harder now, two things I want to point out :
1. The fact that AW and AF were the outstanding managers at the time were the reason that their clubs were so dominant. Once Abramovitch and the sheiks arrived, their money ensured that talent wasn’t the main reason for success and AW suffered more than AF, simply because of the Emirates build and the fact that manure have always been a wealthier club than us, so were able to compete with chelsea and city up and until Fergie left and its been downhill ever since for them.
2. The “proper trophy” you mention, along with the “stiffer resistance” aspect.
We are now in the 4th season under Mikel and have spent upwards of £800,000,000 in the transfer market, the second highest spenders in the PL I believe.
MA has also inherited the likes of Saka and Martinelli, the former being the second most valuable player in Europe,while the latter is not far behind him in my opinion.
He has the complete backing of the owner, the first manager / coach to have had this, again in my opinion, since Kronkie bought the club.
So if one takes the above into account, along with Mikel’s personal strengths, the future is looking excellent – but he has been very fortunate in the way time, money and the fans have been patient with him, unlike UE and AW in his latter years.
We are in phase four, or four years as it works out and every Arsenal fan wants him to succeed – can we really say that was the case in AW or UE’s last two years?
I just cannot stand the hypocrisy and forgetfulness of what AW achieved throughout his tenure and if MA doesn’t win something this season, I’m afraid those same fans will turn on him as well.
KEN For thr sake of truth and being honest with oneself, I MUST challenge the untruthb of your claim that under AW we were seriously in thhunt for the PL every sewson unil we collapsed like last year(underMA).
The only time we seriously challenged for the titlein his last decade, until falling away in MARCH, was in 2008 at Birmingham when we drew 22 and “CAPTAIN” Gallas did his sit down sulk act.
I would – though with a hold my nose gesture – just about accept 2016 when Leicester won it , even though we collapsed in that season, long before we did last season.
If you are serious about that claim, as you actually wrote, then you are fooling yourself massively and no one else will agree with you, apart from the two seasons I refer too, only ONE of which , 2008, is an entirely HONEST version.
@ken1945….. I don’t get the comparison with the former coaches as I believe that’s not the subject of the article above…. MA cannot be compared with AW at least not yet…. And he himself admitted that he haven’t achieved enough… But what can’t be denied is his influence on the team… He has returned us to the position AW put us during his early days and that’s credit to him. But there’s still room for more…. And as for your claim of dissent if he fails to deliver the league this season I will say if we can compete strongly again we’re building competitive consistency and once that its achieved success is only a matter of time.
YES YOU DID INDEED KEN! And in his last decade, that was the major difference in outlok between you and many others of us who KNEW we would not win the Prem again under him.
When we badly needed a pragmatic “Roundhead” to cure our constant holes- esp a lackof top level CB’s and a proper CDM ever since Gilberto – we stayed with a CAVALIER , who detested pragmatism in favour of “style”, over hard nosed results.
Had we had a pragmatic “MA type” back when Ozil came, we would have avoided his disastrous last five years altogether, as he would have never arrived in the first place . Sigh!
But as you say KEN , onwards and upwards from now on!
Fair play to the board for sticking with him a lot of managers would have been gone but really believe Arteta is going to win trophies at Arsenal I have no doubt about that!
Arteta’s being modest of his time at Arsenal. He must know how well he’s done to bring us this far, and that he’s considered one of the best young managers in Europe. This season or next will be something special for him to celebrate.
Something else for him to proud of is that Arsenal are top of the fair play table this season, and Spurs are bottom.
Arsenal are a far better and improved club now than 4 years ago. Let’s be honest, he had so much crap to deal with wen he arrived. Rome wasn’t built in a day! We were way off the pace 4 years ago, now we’re there or there abouts. What more do we as fans want??? Surely that’s what we all want??? To be there or there abouts every season. No one has a divine right to win! To be in with a shout and to be competitive is all we fans have carved for the last 10 years. Big up Mikel! Good job boss. You have made my Arsenal a pleasure to watch. That’s all I/we fans ask.
That is what Wenger did and was hated for it. Being there or thereabouts every season.
Remember there is no trophy for second place! 2nd to 4th have exact same value.
Agree 100% with your first paragraph HH.
The second paragraph isn’t correct, as there is more money to be earned the higher one finishes – a little pedantic I know, but facts are facts my friend
I had limited my thinking to only champions league places. Thank you for the facts Ken.
But we were not competitive in the league or in Europe for well over a decade under AW.
I don’t expect to win every season, but at least be competitive, yet we all knew that before a ball was even kicked that the transfer windows would be a complete disaster, and that the FA Cup was the only thing to look forward to.
Being competitive has meaning only when it brings trophies. I agree with you it’s difficult to do that every season but we can’t always come up short and call it a success because we were competitive enough
Last and this season the manager and his players are among the best in the league. We can go toe to toe with any other genuine challenger.
Not winning the league should be failure. How else can you improve on 2nd? And speaking of league position, any position below 2nd will be regression.
Not competitive in the league or in Europe for well over a decade? Only true if being “competitive” is limited to finishing 1st or for whatever reasons believing finishing first is a possibility. 2nd through 4th must not be good enough for that belief.
What I mean by competitive, is either winning the biggest trophies, or at least challenging for them. AW didn’t genuinely have a title challenge for 14 straight years, and his last 9 years in Europe were not competitive.
It depends on what you consider challenging to be. I believe we were challenging in most cases and on average in the PL (just not first place) the actual results were better over that period of time (excluding the last season or so) than any other club except Man City. While the club was not fortunate enough to make it far in the UCL I still consider making the UCL knockout rounds every single season to be challenging for further glory.
I for one cannot accept the argument that he is being modest or he has risen the club from the ashes because of the following facts that cannot be refuted or argued:
1. When he was appointed Arsenal was the financially healthiest club in the solar system thanks to the vision and sacrifice of the great Arsene Wenger. What a man!
2. He has been given ample time (too much in modern football standards).
3. Total authority over players regardless of the loss to the club and
4. Practically a blank check.
Going 5 years into his reign if we compare the club investment in him and returns, yes he needs to prove himself.
We are very close in squad valuation to Man City (which Arteta is praised for, I wonder for what strange and illogical reason). Yet they won the treble and we bottled in the dying minutes.
WHY?
What could be the possible reason for that? One will say the difference between us and them is the manager. Another will say their squad had already gelled while ours was just assembled.
Regardless there is no more excuses.
Time has been given and money has been spent. Its time for the big two trophies THIS SEASON! Not the next or the next after that!
NO MORE PHASES! We can’t keep adding phases every season we fail to win something!
Your time is now Arteta go and announce it to the world at Anfield this weekend!
“NO MORE PHASES”? You are not the one he negotiated his intentions with before he was hired last time i checked. And no he did’nt just got a “blank cheque” as he obviously earned his transfer kitty prior to each transfer window by significant increase in standings, Not hard to figure out. Another false claim is on squad valuation compared to City’s treble winners as we were’nt as valuable last season compared to this season. Get your facts right!
How did he earn the transfer kitty? Please give facts and figures about that. It’s not something that I will just take your word for it.
Didn’t we spend anything when we finished 8th in successive seasons?
What about other clubs that increased in standings did they or are they able to spend as we did? Will Emery have 200+ million to spend if he finish in the top 4 this season?Can you give me an example of two to nail your point home?
Since we are as valuable as the treble winners THIS season what is the minimum we should expect?
I am willing to agree with you and embrace your views but you have to give me facts and figures not merely empty statements.
Simple! The higher the improvements in standings, the increase in transfer funds. There is no way he could’ve spent 100 million the season we did’nt finish 8th and ended in EL last four, upon improving our standings by finishing 5th hence further increase which saw us spend 150 million. Topping the league into the new year earns him further backing of about 60 million to push for our tittle bid and upon ending the season in a significant three places higher in the lucrative prem earns him further backing to continue our progress, which so far is still very much on track. On your question regarding Emery, if he had delivered according to his manifesto, i’m sure he would’ve got all the backing he needed.
You didn’t understand my question about Emery and still I am not convinced by your point of “earning” the transfer pot.
Let’s look at the spending and selling every season from his arrival to date and see how he earned as results improved.
Player sale has little to no influence on our transfer funds. Just what Mikel manage to achieve in a season and what it earns us financially. Examples of clubs with higher financial backing are United,Pool and Newcastle.
20/21 86M position 8th
21/22 167M position 5th
22/23 192M position 2nd
23/24 235M position ???
can you provide what we earned each season according to our results? Without including matchday, broadcasting and merchandise.
You can as well google what the prize money is per positions in the prem. Mind you i said we spend what we realise in funds the season prior NOT after as your expenditure in a lower currency than pounds suggest, meaning we were able to spend 192 M for finishing 5th not 2nd, as the investments clearly improved our standings as you rightly outlined. Not sure why our major sources of income should be excluded because BROADCASTING is the prime source of our transfer income if not the rest your lordship demands to be excluded for whatever reason.
Because regardless of our position on the table, with the global following Arsenal have, broadcasting income won’t be affected, same as matchday and merchandise.
Those three can’t be affected according to our standings.
Now you said transfer kitty was increased due to income from our results, how much was that?
And no I can’t google. You should. You are the one defending a point. Your point is fictional until you provide data to back it up. Which you won’t and can’t because there is no data to back you up.
HH Speaking as a person who prizes REAL truth and truth which is also set in true context, I have to say I firmly agree with VAMOS and his sensible posts.
I also note that from his very beginning at Arsenal you have been firmly against MA, even though you have ,of late, lessened your former regular public disdain of him – for fear of your own personal embarrassment among our fanbase on JA as a distinct outlier on that matter.
You plainly have a personal agenda against MA and equally plainly have NEVER AND STILL DONT accept the reality that your hero AW was told “resign or be sacked”, so he resigned.
You cannot and will not face the reality that we now have a dynamic and top class hungry , demanding, young manager in charge, instead of a one time master whose last decade saw him hanging on to his job with a regularly dwindling band of supporters, all save the few dinosaurs like you and a very few others on JA. All perceptive fans easily saw the reality of what our club badly NEEDED and are now thrilled that we have atop class manager in charge once again.
You will not see it though, as you are wilfuly blind to the truth, poor soul yoiu!
You can as well forget about the simple research, all i know is we obviously spent what we earned because the fact that we are not in danger with FFP back my points on the fact that we spend based on previous season achievements. No way i can present actual expenditure as neither am i the clubs accountant nor will indulge in illegal hacking of their data base, just to present to you what i’m not in charge of. But the fact we earn the respective sums we did over the years and were able to spend without FFP probe should tell you something, and if it did’nt, you can keep up with your agenda.
Jon, on the subject of personal embarrassment regarding past managers / coaches, I remember how YOU declared that Unai Emery was the man to take us forward.
Would you agree that that was a “personal embarrassment for you?
As usual, you try to demean ANYONE who has a different opinion to yours and, in my book, that smacks of a feeble intellect.
What is wrong with HH asking Vamos for proof of his claims?
At the moment that’s something that Vamos has failed to do, yet you decide to ignore that and have a go at HH because he has an opinion that differs from yours.
Just to also remind you, it was Vamos who you accused of not making any sense, when he used the words “old dawg” – you REALLY DO have a selective memory Jon, one that suits your views of course!!
I would like to add Ken that it is surprising that Jon still accuse some fans of having an agenda against Mikel. I have not seen anyone in JA or other supporters I know wanting Mikel and Arsenal to lose. If we all want him to win how can we have an agenda?
@Jon maybe you have missed or deliberately ignored the claim Vamos made that the club hasn’t backed Mikel rather he has “earned” transfers money hence asking for data of how he has earned close 800 million plus.
Saying that the club has backed Mikel more than Wenger and Emery is a fact not an opinion. And that fact is nothing against Arteta. How can it be?
Vamos,I’m also looking forward to seeing your explanation as to how MA “earned his transfer kitty” as he (with the backing of the owner) gave players away and finished 8th 8th and 5th!!!
8th and fa cup,8th and EL semis,5th and league cup semis and 2nd in his third full season graphically indicates improvements hence earning the transfer funds based on whatever he managed to achieve season prior to each windows in his proposed project which are in annual phases.
Ken I was unable to post a reply to your post above timed at 3.53, so this is it here.
I reject your customary FALSE allegation that I DEMEAN ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME.
THAT IS SIMPLY EITHER A LIE OR YOUR OWN INCORRECT INTERPRETATION.
Firstly you miss many of my posts and plainly never see – as it doesnt suit your agenda – the many times I PRAISE THOSE WHO MAKE BRIGHT COMMENTS, QUITE IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER OR NOT I agree with their point, which is anyway, beside the point.
Moving swifly on from your usual libel of me though, I do think Emery, but for his obvious language difficulty and the immense unfair fun poked at him on JA by our fans, WOULD HAVE DONE WONDERS HERE. As evidence of this, his excellent managership at Villa shows this to be so. So another false allegation debunked.
As for HH and VAMOS and all their posts, I amfirmly with Vamos on this It was originally HH who posted a lot of incorrect nonsense and Vamos was merely trying to put him right and it developed from there.
So it is for HH to provide evidence for his own odd view, not for VAMOS to do so for putting him right.
Unlike you KEN, I DO NOT KEEP A LIST OF OTHER FANS WHO EITHER AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH ME ON VARIOUS MATTERS.
I ignore any previous debates on other matters and if I AGREE , THEN I SAY SO AND ALSO IF i DISAGREE, on the topic in question.
Just as I do with you too, as you may care to notice and to admit!
No Jon, that’s not just MY opinion and THAT’S why you have to defend yourself so many times on JA – the ONLY contributor who has been called out so MANY times by your fellow Gooners.
On to Unai Emery and you quite skillfully ignored my point that you claimed he would bring the success that you now say Mikel Arteta will bring – only to be proved 100% wrong as you turned against him.
Was that not the “personal embarrassment that you were SO keen to give HH?
As for your take on me keeping lists, that again is your interpretation…. you deny doing that, yet a few posts previously you said that you had noticed how HH had been down on MA since the boss joined the club!!!
See what I mean Jon?
@HH
RealTalk 🎯👏🏾
Please provide evidence for each of points 1-4. Otherwise, you are simply making statements which lack credibility or at the very least are highly debatable.
If you feel that Arteta has not contributed to the high valuation of our current squad can you indicate your reasons for such a high valuation of our current squad?
If the “phases” are not to your liking can you indicate what would have been a better approach to sustained performances and winning titles?
You might as well ask me to provide evidence that Arsenal won their last game.
I have stated facts what more evidence do you need? Which Arsenal fan is not aware of the points I have mentioned? You surprise me!
I am actually open to be in agreement with you or any Arsenal fan if presented with sound facts and figures.
Your post above shows you are competing instead of arguing and you have completely failed to find something of substance to come up with that.
You have stated opinion with no evidence. None of what you have stated is factual. Arteta has never had a “blank check”. When Arteta was appointed Arsenal were in good financial health. Whether we were the best is highly debatable. Wenger should get some credit for this but to imply that he was solely responsible is inaccurate. It also essential to note that Arsenal have remained in good financial health since Wenger left.
@ HH….. Sorry but I can’t help, after reading your post, but wonder the level of your hypocrisy… I mean the next two trophies you’re claiming is the league and champions league…. Just wow!!!!!
I don’t understand what you mean. Did we spend 800 million and have such patience to win Carabao cup?
I appreciate his honesty and totally agree with him. In my opinion, the jury is still out. But I must admit, he’s on the right track. Jus sayin…
H.H, you’ll never win this argument despite your logical reasoning and clear facts. In some people’s eyes Arteta can do no wrong, but as you mentioned,” go out and get the three points at Anfield”. This would be the best way to silence the doubters. On a different note, our old friend VAR has shown it’s head again. Villa have every right to complain but in this case it has done us a favor by denying them two points.
Joe. S, the word “doubters” is incorrect.
What HH and I are pointing out, is the difference in the support and backing, followed by the expectations and the time element given.
Whether we best liverpool or not, it won’t define MA’s season.
The word doubters is absolutely correct. The suggested difference in support and backing is at best marginal. Wenger allowed a suboptimal ethos to develop and left a bloated unbalanced squad. Emery was somewhat unfortunate but a lot more was expected of someone who was considered a world class manager.
Despite some of the early setbacks when Arteta joined there were always signs of what he wanted to establish. One advantage that Arteta had was that the majority of fans had become more realistic and realised that we were ill-equipped to challenge the likes of Liverpool and MC.
Arteta’s influence in the transformation of the team has been remarkable for any manager made even more so considering this is his first managerial job.
You have redefined my understanding of marginal. On the first managerial job point, fortunately we didn’t appoint someone even less experienced than MA or we would have to accept even worse is more acceptable
Ken and David, I include myself in the group of ” doubters” whoever else they may be. I don’t believe Arteta has been as successful as you make him out to be David. He’s been lucky in that some of our main competitors such as Man. U., Chelsea and the Spuds have been all over the place in their on going rebuilds while Liverpool had one of those seasons where things almost fell apart. There’s still a lot for Arteta to prove ,and no a loss at Anfield won’t define his season. There are more than enough games to bounce back and regain the lead.. Also Ken and H.H. I’m with you on the fact that Arsene Wegner wasn’t given much backing during a period when the balance sheet appeared to be what mattered most. The clearest example was during the season when Leicester achieved their miracle. In January Arsenal were serious contenders but the best Wegner could get regarding reinforcements was Mr 97% perfect passing Elneny for five million. We all know how that ended.
These are quotes from Wenger:
“Am I happy with the investment I make? Yes, every time. I bought Sánchez, I bought Özil, I bought Cech, I bought Gabriel last year”
“But when you have to invest you have to find the players to invest in … The problem at the moment is finding the players that guarantee you are a better team afterwards.”
I’m afraid it is not credible to suggest Wenger was not backed. During his later years there were often weaknesses in the squad that Wenger did not address claiming as indicated above that he could not find suitable players. Elneny is a useful squad player but the suggestion that his transfer was the best Arsenal could do in the circumstances is not plausible.
The comparison with the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd are interesting in that an alternative argument would be that Arteta has demonstrated what can be achieved by a manager who can provide a clear vision and implement his ideas effectively. Arsenal are currently considered one of the best in Europe. Arteta is already one of the best managers in Europe; winning major trophies would elevate him to being amongst the world’s truly elite.
Regarding Elneny he was totally useless in the rundown to the title that season. Why didn’t Wegner go for a stronger centre half, a better midfielder than Xhaka or Ramsey? Most neutral commentators were saying that they
remained unconvinced by the midfield pairing of those two. They weren’t up to the task of controlling the centre and winning quality ball for Ozil, Sanchez and Carziola. My take was that he didn’t have the finance to go for the very best and finally took a punt on Elneny as a bench warmer. A shame because we beat Leicester twice and it was as close as we’ve been to a title in almost twenty years.
Interestingly David, you have not reprinted Arteta’s claim that he would win the CL In three years, when it actually took that amount of time to even qualify.
Of course The Arsenal are being considered as one of the better sides in Europe – having spent over £800,000,000, it would be incredible if they weren’t, plus the fact that he inherited both Saka and Martinelli ( worth a reported just under £200,000,00 for the pair).
Perhaps you’ve forgotten Cedric and Willian when quoting Elneny – were those two the best around when Kronkie had his cheque book out?
Check on the players out on loan, like Lokonga and you can compare Elneny once again,but I guess that’s different eh?
Of course we ALL hope that Mikel will be winning trophies, but until he does, how on earth can you claim he is ALREADY one of the best in Europe?
One fa cup win with a “bloated” squad he inherited, does NOT make him one of the best in europe and neither does the fact that, after leading the PL for the record number of games, he lost the title by five clear points after leading by eight!!
I do believe he will lead us forward and he is learning from his mistakes…. the problem is, when one points out his obvious mistakes (which he admits by the way) out come statements like he’s one of the best in europe as a counter argument, with nothing to back that statement up as yet!!
Finally, I note with amusement that you mention chelsea and manure as clubs who have spent money but, this season, failed to achieve…. why did you not mention city, who have just completed the grand slam of trophies?
Why should I reprint what Arteta has said? It is irrelevant to this discussion. The players you mention are also irrelevant to this thread. No manager gets every transfer right but Wenger did not address certain issues year after year. Those quotes were from around 2015- 2016. He made similar comments at different times during his last 10 years at the club.
Is Arteta one of the best in Europe? These are various sources that have rated managers in Europe and around the world this year:
Examples:
Fourfourtwo- Arteta 4th best
ESPN – Arteta 4th best
UEFA Coach of the year Arteta, 5th
Any reasonable analysis takes into account multiple factors to determine a manager’s rating as titles alone can be insufficient to assess a manager’s impact.
The points I was responding to had nothing to do with Man City so it is difficult to understand why you find it amusing that they are not mentioned.
Well, the article is about Arteta and him saying he hasn’t proved himself yet and he hasn’t won enough trophies.
Yet you completely ignore what the man himself has said and go on a rant about Wenger and Elneny, while quoting some of his words.
Of course ALL managers make mistakes in the transfer market, but you seem unable to recognise that MA has made quite a few, but have no hesitation in highlighting what you perceive as AW’s mistakes.
Why, for instance, have we not signed a top goalscorer, while resigning Nketiah and Nelson have been resigned on reported £100k a week?
Or what about the situation regarding Raya and Ramsdale.
Then there’s the Partey injury situation at WHL, when MA told him to go back on to the pitch and aggregated the injury he had suffered.
I guess that these are some of the issues that MA is talking about, when he says he hasn’t proved anything yet, but if you choose to not believe what Arteta himself says and continue to rant on about Wenger and his mistakes, that’s your perogative.
Your examples of Arteta being mentioned as one of the top coaches gives three examples, yet I could give you DOZENS of quotes regarding Wenger and their views on his qualities.
I certainly DO agree with you that a managers impact cannot be judged on trophies alone – yet that’s what your doing with AW, completely ignoring what was happening from 2005 onwards in the PL.
Of course you didn’t mention city, as it would have nullified the point you was making about chelsea and united, but you brought them into the discussion and completely ignored the most obvious example of what money can and HAS done in the PL – now we have to see if the £800,000,000 plus that Kronkie has given MA will produce similar results… and the manager himself knows he hasn’t yet done that.
I was responding to Mr Joe’s points which I have addressed. By claiming that he could not find suitable players to strengthen his squad, Wenger, one of the most experienced and respected managers, lost some of his credibility.
I have given three examples of respected sources that name Arteta as one of the best managers. This has nothing to do with Wenger’s standing in football.
I did not mention City as it was not part of this thread. Chelsea and MU were. Look at the comments by Mr Joe.
As usual, having lost the argument, you try to obfuscate by going off point.
Naturally, Arteta and Arsenal want to achieve much more; especially major titles.
My main point stands, however, Arteta is already one of the best. He will be considered one of the truly elite managers if we start winning major titles.
I haven’t lost the argument mate, you have, especially with your last sentence.
“He will be considered one of the truly elite managers IF we start winning trophies…. yet you’ve already declared Mikel Arteta to be one and he’s won a fa cup!!
Of course, the man you love to slag off, Arsene Wenger, has done exactly what you claim makes an elite manager :
Seven fa cup wins (a record in this competition).
Three PL titles (during which a run of forty nine unbeaten games set a new record).
Two double winning seasons (including The Invincibles).
Come back when Mikel starts to get anywhere near that kind of record and let’s include sixteen uninterrupted CL participation (including one final, two semis and all but one season reaching the KO stages).
I’ll be fair and include the two CS trophies that he has won, along with the seven that AW achieved.
We won’t include building a new stadium, as MA has the luxury of The Emirates at no extra charge!!
I’m confident that, using YOUR CRITERIA as to what makes an elite manager, that I have, indeed WON the argument, but sincerely hope that MA proves his OWN doubts misguided and DOES becomes our most successful and elite manager as AW undoubtedly was.
By the way, accusing me of going off the point is laughable in the extreme, as the point was and still IS, Mikel’s own words that he still has a long way to go, something you COMPLETELY lost or ignored in your haste to put AW and Elneny down… SIGH!!
No longer being a paying customer I’m far less demanding of Arteta and Arsenal. I think Mikel’s one of the best young manager/coaches in Europe and am sure that lasting success starts this season or next.
Jax, does that mean we have phase SIX to look forward too then if phase five doesn’t work out this season?
As a paying customer, I would really like to know?!