Bukayo Saka and Reiss Nelson are prime examples of talents who have come through the ranks to become important first-team players.
The Gunners continue to develop stars, with Ethan Nwaneri tipped to be the next Hale End Academy graduate to make a significant impact.
However, just a few days ago, Arsenal lost arguably the best teenage striker in England, Chido Obi-Martin, who claimed he did not see a pathway to the first team for him at the Emirates.
Mikel Arteta travelled for pre-season with several youngsters who hoped to play in the matches. However, he predominantly used strong, established players for their pre-season games, which might have contributed to Obi-Martin’s decision to leave.
After the game against Liverpool, the Arsenal gaffer was asked about the lack of chances for the youngsters and he said, as quoted by The Sun:
“I’m really pleased with all of them. Unfortunately, I wanted to give opportunities to all of them, but we didn’t have enough time to do so, but especially the ones that played, I think they performed & responded incredibly well.
“So that’s something that we take from the tour as well, that we have a lot of talent there that we want to use & they show that they are very much pushing to earn the right to play with us.”
Just Arsenal Opinion
We have several fine youngsters who clearly have the talent to start playing for our senior team.
However, because we are looking to win a major trophy soon, we will not give as much chance to youngsters as we should.
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There is no doubt the gaffer is poor with kids and the saying you win nothing with kids may well be playing on his mind.
As we enter the final phase of the process, things are only going to get worst as far as the youngsters are concern.
How is he “poor” with kids? It is quite ridiculous to state categorically that there is “no doubt” when we have some of the best young players in world football. We are competing with the best in the world so there are very few who will be at a high enough level to break through.
Exactly. Those who have gone on loan like Patino have not set the world.on fire.
Saliba did and look at him now
All this re Obi Martin is a red herring. His agents got over £1mn to get him to sign for Man Utd…they would have received a fraction of that had he stayed at Arsenal. So it has nothing to.do with Arteta…more.to do.wt8h greedy football agents who will.end up ruining the kid
Should be another Sanogo in few years time…
Honestly you can’t compete with Man city with kids.
No sentiments.
Just taking the time out, to put things in perspective for the posters above.
I hate to split the justice especially when the gaffer is on the wrong side of things. As I think he’s an good manager that is only going to get better.
Apart from Nwaneri who’s gentle introduction had served it purpose with that amazing stats, I can’t put my finger on a promising youngster the gaffer had blended in.
Having inherited Saliba on a platter, he once mistakenly said the kid was not ready, foreign managers think otherwise so too was a certain legendary Frenchman.
Surely the credit for Saka and Martineli, has to be given to those before.
Kids are just not the gaffer cup of tea.
This is your perspective to which you are entitled but I disagree.
Arteta believed Saliba was not ready. That was his opinion and it seems he had reasonable grounds for his concerns at the time. The fact that somebody else has a different opinion does not mean Arteta was mistaken. What can be said is that Saliba has developed into one of the best defenders in the world.
The progress of Saka and Martinelli has been due to several factors and includes the input of a number of people who have supported their development. As their manager for the last few years are you suggesting that Arteta deserves no credit?
Loan them out maybe an option to give them more game time other than cup games. I thought that’s what happens anyway.
I would hope if they are good enough they could step up and be loaned out, otherwise they need to be exceptional to go straight into this Arsenal side full of international grade players.
Their are two or three exceptional academy players at the moment that should make the squad I would hope.
Others may need a little more time to develop so should be given the opportunity to be out out on loan to improve and prove themselves to be honest as they could be late developers. I remember reading about Ian Wright starting and developing late in the game. Just my opinion.
*maybe an option to give them more game time other than cup games. I thought that’s what happens anyway.*
I can understand that if we were not desperate a major trophy. But if we are giving our inexperienced young players more game time in the EPL and CL then that means our more experienced rotation players that we have spent a lot of money on will not be happy. We are going to need those more experienced squad players to push us to a tight finish line in the title race or CL race.
A hypothetical, last 4 games of a tight title race against Man City, Liverpool etc: Who would I have more confidence in to come on against Newcastle with us 2-1 down or 2-1 up with 15 minutes to go? Trossard, Kiwior, Jesus, Timber, Tomiyasu, Jorginho, ESR, Vieira etc or Nwaneri, Patino, Obi Martin, Cozier etc?
The margins have been so tiny between us and Man City for title in the last two season. We can’t be taking off our rational minds just for the sake of feeding our own emotional tendencies towards our youngsters.
Once we start letting our sentiments, emotions overtake our rationality and objectivity then it’s a recipe for disaster. Again, I call for calm and maturity. 🙏🤞
👍
He’s been extremely poor with the academy. Look at Smith R, The guy sold to Chelsea who has earned a decent transfer to the just promoted team, Nelson, Nketia, Matinezi and counting. Yet, no premiership after 5 seasons.
I remember that his decision to bench Nketia for Jesus after returning from injury when the boy doing great in Jesus absence was detrimental to the team’s position 3 seasons ago. MA is great, but I think he’s too rigid, with him, the academy will almost likely be walking away considering the way and signal he’s giving to them that they are not good and may not be good enough.
By the way, look at those young boys that Xavi brought to light from Baca’s academy. They are doing great and increasing the financial status of the club. Same can not be said of our gaffer
You’re not seriously comparing La Liga to the Premier League are you ?
Well for one La Masia is arguably the best youth team academy in football, and since they play the Barcelona style its alot easier to bring players up from there to the B team to the main squad.
As for the comparison Xavi had to use the young players because Barcelona had and still do have big financial problems preventing them from operating in the transfermarket
So 2 different situations.
And they won LA Liga?
Are you crazy? Look at the value of the ARSENAL .squad now compared to 3 years ago !
And Arsenal has one of the youngest sqauda in PL !
Artetas record in cup comps is poor, so even if he did play young players, which he doesn’t, they wouldn’t get a chance. Friendly games are not the games for them. FA cup and cariboo cup are the blooding games. He doesn’t blood them and we don’t go far enough even if we did to try them.
You have a fair point Reggie, but I do think that there is more than one point of view on blooding youngsters.
It’s been mentioned above that regular squad players would get the hump if not getting their chance to get game time – either as subs or first pick in the early rounds of cup competitions. The youngsters have to be of a certain level to get a chance in the first place. Runarsson was thrown in at the deep end and was toast after that.
There is a fine line (certainly until Arteta wins something again) between giving the kids a chance and missing out on the league.
I agree that cup games are the best place to integrate them. Getting Liverpool in the 3rd round was a blow to our FACup chances last season. Hopefully we have a better stab at it this season
Your third paragraph is right on point with this whole matter of whether MA is using the youth resources properly. Unfortunately, the existence of the fine line you refer gives many of the commenters just another opportunity to either heap unwarranted criticism or unwarranted praise on MA depending not on the matter of discussion but on whether you like or dislike MA as our manager.
Agree Sue but I don’t expect young players blooded in the league. The elephant in the room, is our poor cup runs, WITHOUT young players.
Can’t argue with that
He will only be just by trophies not by grooming young players thats arsenal pass history. Just win trophies and who care about the young players. If they want to play they work hard for it
He buys too many players to even give decent chances to academy players. His record us poor there. His only solution is to buy another player. So bad that we are failing in cup competitions with the senior players whilst the rest of the big teams are going far with reserves.
People will complain about everything now that we’re competitive at the top of the league they’re bringing up the cups, which are frankly are of secondary importance to the team.
As for the youth players it’s incredibly difficult to bring up youth players and play them enough for them to develop without hurting the team’s position in the league. The level of competition has only increased and that makes it so difficult to have these players meet the level.
I am just playing devels advocate here and it’s just an observation as all comments show merit in an ideal Arsenal team set up with at least a third being home grown academy players, which I would love to see and would agree with every comment if this could happen, but:
I would like to see a blog post to do a comparison of last year’s teams and their finishing league positions and how many youth academy players they had in their team.
For example last year Man City won the league but how many players were from their academy that got a winners medal.
Arteta being trained in management effectively by Pep guardiola at Man City, is he copying Peps youth policy and thinking this is way to success or does he follow the likes of Manchester united or Westham or whoever has the most academy players, I don’t know who that is to be honest and I am happy to be corrected.
If Arteta thinks it is not the current winning formula, should he still sacrifice the chance of winning league next year and instead plan for 3 or 4 years ahead of time by promoting these academy players and taking that chance that they will “hopefully” improve in the team in 4 years time.
I remember Wenger commenting that “maybe one or two academy players might make the first team, but they would have to be exceptional” ( in his french accent).
Would you all be still happy if Arteta dropped league positions in favour of promoting more Academy players.
Please Don’t shoot me, it’s just an observation seeing as this is Arteta’s Achilles heal from what I keep reading on negative comments against him and why a lot of fans are not feeling the love for him and are divided in opinion of him.
As devil’s advocate: He did after all get us to second twice behind the great Man City without the home academy players.
Would the academy at this present time improve Arsenal to take on Man City for next year? It’s a fair question that divides fans opinion of Arteta.
He should however still give them an opportunity by loaning them out as they are still rookies until tested over period of 3 to 12 months unless they are exceptional.
I personally would love to see both happen, win the league with a load of home grown rookies, well at least four, but is it realistic? Or do we copy Peps proven formula?
Is it a fair question?
Man City had Bobb and Rico playing over 20 games each, including UCL, EPL and this year Pep has publicly said he will promote Nico O’Reilly to the first team.
Maybe Arteta should be brave enough to give a chance to at least one youngstar a season if you at Pep he’s been doing that all his life as a coach at Barca, at Bayern and even at City. That’s what best coaches do
Eric Garcia now at Barca, Diaz at Madrid, Foden, even Cole Palmer all made their debuts under Pep, so please stop comparing Man city and Pep with Arteta’s Arsenal. Let’s just stop defending Arteta in this regard
This is not only for you Daveg.
Pep.Nd Man City bought the league.many times.over before he started giving these academy kids a chance.
Are.people.forgetting the 115 charges against City?
So.once Pep.has won the league many times of.course he can afford to inject come.kids in because he knows the fans won’t get on his back
Can you.imagine some Arsenal.fans on here (who constantly moan) if Arteta had played academy kids and we ended up in 4th or 5th ? They would be shouting ‘ARTETA OUT’
Facts are that with one of the youngest teams in the PL we have just missed out winning last two years. Arteta took many youngsters on pre season and they have to now EARN their place in a strong team
@Niel, Pep came to City in 2016/2017 season and started promoting and giving academy players a chance without winning the league first. As for the 115 charges thats another topic.
Please find a link below for your reference
https://www.mancity.com/news/mens/guardiola-manchester-city-homegrown-academy-players-63804905
Well put, Neil
Well Sue, I think there’s some reasons for that and I think every situation is different. Patino for instance last season was thriving on loan and then a new coach came and started making comments about how he needed to bulk up. Hutchinson last season played really well and helped his team to promotion, then there’s Biereth he also did well and they all never got a proper chances. I think with some others the verdict is still out there and we might regret letting them go. Knowing how Brighton is good with young players, I expect the kid(forgot his name)there to blossom
I know loans can be good at times but I think the best option for Patino was to learn and stay with Arsenal. His style of play maybe didn’t suit the that team
Pepe first won the league many times before starting to indulge in blooding young players.
We are still trying to win some major trophies before we start obsessing about youngsters.
We did that during the early Emirates years under wenger.
Wenger had won a few titles from 1996-2004 then started the youth projects.
Lets win some major trophies first then we can start obsessing about academy youngsters.
Obi Martin was more than good enough to be playing as a sub for the first team in the prem in imo. The boy was electric. Yes it’s hard to break through right now but letting that young master go to man u is unforgivable. You watch he’ll be playing in the league cup, fa cup and then straight into the first team and be scoring 40 goals a season for them before to long. Massive bad mistake you just watch the lad go now. More embarrassing than Harry cane and any other player we’ve ever let go. Mark my words. Take from me right here right now. Real bad ma. Hope we win league but I’m seriously worried we don’t get top four this year the way the window is going. What now there talking of pulling away from Vic Gyorkers madness I’m telling you if we don’t get a top prowler of a striker this season we’re In big trouble, we got away with over the last couple of season because the other so called top teams just weren’t on it. Victor oshimen would have been perfect for us. I’ve watched all his goals and most are headers in the box and tap ins he didn’t score so many last season because he wasn’t happy at the club. I hope they sort this mess out or were back to Europa league next season. Big moan for me but what the hell I can’t sleep anyway.
I feel pity for your kind of fan……. Hope you find a peaceful sleep while optimistic fan is enjoying the moment
What moment are you enjoying?
The moment where we’re competing for the league against the best team in Europe. It’s been a while we’ve been in this position
If they’re good enough they’ll make it. They have a slight advantage as there is a homegrown quota and we are clearing out some homegrown players to possibly make room for a couple over the next one or two sessions They’re going to have to be a bit special because this is the best Arsenal have been in 20 years
Another excuse for not trusting academy players and keep buying average players. There were enough Games like Carabao, FA, first rounds of Championship league where he could afford to give them chances and experiences, but he plays his average buys like Cedric, Zinzeko. Also plays senior tired player unnecessary in these matches
Apparently Arsenal were the second worst last season in terms of time allocated to youth players, 13 minutes across the whole season.
And don’t point to Saka and ESR, they broke through because Arteta had no choice due to injuries. The cup team with more youngstwrs was doing well and the first team was dire through Nov and Dec, Arteta refused to play any of the youngsters until he had no choice. Then he played Saka and ESR for the rest of the season.
Its the same problem Arteta has had since he started and one of the problems Wenger had too. A lack of team rotation to help reduce pressure on the first team, keep squad players match fit and bring kids through
There are dead rubber games where he could have given the lada opportunity but declined. I hope he had a change in mind this season around. We are loosing huge finances from the sake of these young players since that are not playing. Maybe two to three could come in regularly to replace the void left by departed players like elneny, Cedric, and smith.
I just don’t buy this cr*p that Arsenal doesn’t have youngsters from the academy to step up. I mean this academy is renowned as one of the best in the world. All of a sudden for 5 years Arteta that is in charge we no longer produce future stars? Arteta needs to be brave and blood in at least one youngsters per season, no pressure. Where have you ever heard the excuse they’re not ready, who’s responsible for preparing them? Is it not the coach 🤔
I keep saying: I am all for the sentiment towards our academy players but the situation we find ourselves in today is not going to be good for many youngsters.
We can’t have it both ways. On one hand the manager is being pelted for having not won the title or CL with all the money and time he has been afforded. Fans want a competitive team to win trophies, challenge Man City for then title, challenge for the CL, win domestic cups etc but at the same time always turn around call for inexperienced youngsters to be given enough playing time in that whole process.
My take is that lets first win a major trophy (Title, CL) and then start overly indulging with academy player sentiment. Right now I don’t care too much about my own irrational attachment to our academy youngsters. If the manager and youth coaches deem them as good enough and ready then they will get their chance in the first team.
For me right now all I am looking at is challenging for major trophies and winning them. It’s been 20 years since we won the Title. Lets be honest, our European history is a joke as a club, we have never won a CL or Europa league in our history. But we have a reach history of giving our youngsters a chance. Let’s first win another Title or CL then we can indulge in our young player sentiments.
Let’s put out the best team we can for the Title and CL and try to win. Then later we can indulge our emotional attachments to our academy players..
Oh God the circle goes on and on that’s what you’re saying? As long as we don’t win trophies we don’t try out the youngsters. The pressure is always there, not just Arteta and Arsenal but everyone in top 6 to win the league. Arteta just needed to be brave, am not asking too much but just one youngsters per season to be given a chance here and there.
Just look at Pep, look at his record in giving academy players a chance. You do it bit by bit, just one academy player per season. Arteta has 5 years and nothing to show for it, no doubt he’s a brilliant coach but he needs to brave with the youngsters.
I disagree.
Pep built on a foundation of success which was well established before he joined. He has built on this no doubt but he had a much better set up to begin with. Pep has now built one of the strongest squads we have ever seen and that gives him a lot of leeway.
Arteta has had to almost completely rebuild the squad and re-establish an ethos of competence, consistency and competitiveness that we have not had for years. We have also had one of the youngest squads in the PL.
Arteta has given a few young players their debuts but it is doubtful that any of them were ready for a sustained run in the first team.
In the last few years Arsenal have also been trying to re-establish themselves as a serious perennial title challengers. That is not a place for tryouts when competing against the best teams in world football or trying to win major titles.
These claims of “just needs to be brave” etc etc. lack credibility. Emotional attachments to young unproven players is not going to make us more competitive and Arteta cannot afford to be indulgent if he is to make Arsenal more successful.
@David I hear the foundation part, Man City had some brilliant players. But for me that’s not an excuse, Arteta has had over 5 years to lay those “foundations” for the academy players to prosper and he hasn’t given them a chance. Some of the academy players have become impatient as a result and left.
For me this pressure excuse doesn’t cut it with me, because pressure is always there and sometimes for the academy players to prove themselves they need to perform under pressure. For example When Saka came there was pressure, when Smith-Rawe came there was pressure it’s never going anywhere. Pressure to win can’t be an excuse. When Pep came he immediately promoted from the academy and there was pressure too. People must stop thing that pep didn’t give academy players a chance
Oyama
Your points only hold water if the young players on leaving Arsenal go on to better things. Not many have.
Well Sue, I think there’s some reasons for that and I think every situation is different. Patino for instance last season was thriving on loan and then a new coach came and started making comments about how he needed to bulk up. Hutchinson last season played really well and helped his team to promotion, then there’s Biereth he also did well and they all never got a proper chances. I think with some others the verdict is still out there and we might regret letting them go. Knowing how Brighton is good with young players, I expect the kid(forgot his name)there to blossom
I know loans can be good at times but I think the best option for Patino was to learn and stay with Arsenal. His style of play maybe didn’t suit the that team
Oyama,
You make a great suggestion.
I was just playing devil’s advocate as fans are split over this as a lot want home grown and a lot want ready made super stars.
To be fair, when everyone was commenting that we need a new striker and some saying Toney or Gyokeres or Osimhen etc.. I did not see any comments mentioning that we should promote a striker from the academy, not one.
All the times we were linked to any player home or abroad, I did not see any comments mentioning we should not go for that player but instead we should promote from the academy. I am just playing devil’s advocate here.
Your suggestion of at least one academy a season is probably the best suggestion I heard as a non argument, so well done their.
Certain positions like defensive is a huge gamble and may need either very exceptional home grown defender or a ready made proven players purchased, but a good defensive academy player is not exceptional and defensively they are very hard to find.
I believe regarding Obi departure, in according to the latest media reports (one of the sites amongst many reporting this was “she wore a yellow ribbon”) Obi was offered over double the money at Manu as Arsenal offered him their best wage of £15k p.w. and he wanted more money and felt offended at the offer, which is Arsenal’s maximum offered to exceptional academy players.
So their was the money influence their that persuaded his decision, this is according to the media reports.
But it was a shame because had Obi committed to Arsenal we would never know if Arteta would have promoted him to the squad like Nwaneri and Myles Lewis, who I heard have been promoted to the squad. Whether they get games is another matter.
Arteta, whether you agree or not with his methods, has so far improved our position each year as we finished a very close second to arguably the best team in the world or should I say one of the best.
But you are right Arteta could at least promote one exceptional academy player each year for a start, if not more if they are exceptional and physically ready.
Should we not give our guru, Arteta the benefit of the doubt and see how he uses Nwaneri and Myles Lewis this season?
He may prove us wrong.
Man Utd paid Obi Martin’s agents £1mn +to get him to sign for them
End of story. That guy just went for the money ! Ir was persuaded to by his greedy agents
Yes, but what would you and others say if the position was reversed, and Arsenal had paid a similar sum for an outstanding Man Utd youngster? “Send him back, he just went for the money”? Or would the posts on the site be saying what a good piece of business Arsenal had done to get such a prospect for so little? I wonder – but I don’t wonder for too long.
As a follow up BMN, what’s wrong with going for the money anyway?
It’s not as if manure is a fly by night club.
If The Arsenal thought he was worth it, why didn’t they offer him this deal before other clubs came sniffing around?
Loyalty and recognition works both ways!!
I hear you Daveg clearly, firstly with Obi I read somewhere that money was not the only factor, apparently they promised to make him a third choice striker for the first team, am not sure how true is this but time will tell.
Secondly with Nwaneri and Skelly-Lewis, am also hoping that Arteta will give them opportunities, I must say the signs are showing he’s will to based on the US tour.
*Man United promised*
Obama, we’ll soon see if it’s true that Obi will be the third choice striker, as Hojlund is going to miss the start of the season with a hamstring injury. He should at least be on the bench if it’s true.
*Oyama. Bloody autocorrect.
💯 H Drier,
You need a combination of both experienced (usually older therefore) players and youngsters, don’t you. It’s not either/or, but a mix. It’s getting the mix right that’s the tricky part.
Clearly only a tiny % of youngsters actually make it to the senior squad of all those that pass through the youth set up. Occasionally, you can get a group all at once – Man Utd’s “Class of ’92” is probably the best example with six – but that’s as rare as hen’s teeth.
We have to accept that many of the youngsters given a chance at Arsenal won’t actually make it in the end and will be moved on (as we’re seeing). Hopefully, the best will remain.
If a manager couldn’t introduce or give a chance to the young one’s he took for a pre- season tour, I’ll call him (arteta a clown) they’ll continue living the club as long as he remain as the coach…
But Arteta did give opportunities to several youngsters. There are reports about them on this site.
We have to get away from the idea that because they’re “young” they must all be given a chance at almost every opportunity. Some may be considered “ready” others not. That’s down to the coaching staff who see them every day in training not, I suggest, you or I.
Folorunsho, when do you suggest the manager gives those players a chance ? In what games ?
In games like that second leg one, against PSV where Arsenal was guaranteed of first position in the table, whatever the outcome.
Yep, once topping the group is guaranteed he should have blood a few. He did in the League Cup game at Brentford though. Sagoe played over an hour iirc.