Pep Guardiola’s starting lineup against Red Star Belgrade exposed Mikel Arteta’s stubbornness in team selection.
Manchester City, like Arsenal, was merely playing their Champions League-Match Day 6 fixture for show (just like Arsenal), because they had already assured themselves that they would top the group even if they lost their last group game, thus having already secured a spot in the round of 16.
That being said, Guardiola did not do what Mikel Arteta said he would do in that encounter.
Ethan Nwaneri, 16, Reuell Walters, 18, and Lino Sousa, 18, were all included in Arsenal’s matchday squad for the match against PSV but did not play.
Mikel Arteta intimated that he might give Arsenal youth a chance against PSV, saying, “Three big prospects. We want to bring a lot of players from a system and they deserve to be here. The circumstances have got them into this position. They’re still really really young but we want to get them the experience because they have the talent hopefully to be very close to us. We’ll try to give them the opportunity if we can in the right moment.” but he didn’t.
Pep Guardiola, on the other hand, was not afraid to give young Manchester City players a chance. He gave Oscar Bobb, 20, and Mica Hamilton, 20, the pleasure of starting, and he also gave Mahamadou Susoho, 18, a chance to see out the game as a 75th-minute sub. Notably, Hamilton and Bobb both scored.
If Arsenal is to unleash another Bukayo Saka, Mikel Arteta must be bold enough to play academy stars in games like the one against PSV, which was a dead rubber. Giving minutes to Cedric Soares and Mohammed Elneny when they could be on their way out and disregarding players who could be the future doesn’t make sense. After a difficult match against Aston Villa, Arsenal could have benefited from resting key players like William Saliba and not having to rely on Declan Rice, but that was not the case. I hope Mikel Arteta loosens up on his squad selection rigidity.
Daniel O
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Champions’ League prize money for group games:
£2.4 million for a win
£1.2 million for a draw
£0 for a loss.
We’re not Man City, we can’t afford to throw away that amount of money.
This is so much bs. Is his priority being a coach or Financial? Some people just like making excuses for the coach
Since he is Arsenal manager, not coach, his priority is both.
Financial
Devoloping any of those players could save you 20-25M if its A new saka 100M if A willock still 30-40M But people still thinking about 2-3 M sell cedric money saved
Feels like a lame and reverse engineered excuse to justify why MA deprived youngsters and risked senior players for a couple million quid. Far fetched and make little sense given how rare an inconsequential game comes by
Which senior players did he risk? Gabriel and Saliba. How often do centre backs get injured during games, how much do we talk about centre backs needing to play together to build an understanding, and which youth players of sufficient quality did we leave out?
MO, DR and GJ. Nwaneri, Walters and Sousa. It’s precisely because they may not have sufficient quality that we should let them have a run out
Jesus came on in the 89th minute: we’re sooooooo lucky he didn’t get injured during his 8 minutes, what a risk. And Odegaard and Rice came on in the 62nd. Rice played centre back as Arteta wanted to try him out there. Odegaard still needs to recover his rhythm after he missed those games in my opinion. The staff work with those young players every day, I trust their judgement on them over yours.
Something unnecessary and risky doesn’t become justified because of the length of exposure. It’s like drink driving isn’t justified because the ride is a short one.
You don’t have to trust my judgement. Just don’t take the easy way out with THE MANAGER KNOWS BEST AND IS ALWAYS RIGHT excuse when you can’t justify something irrational
A profesional footballer playing 8 minutes of football is akin to drink driving?
I fear you’ve lost the plot.
If you took that literally instead of seeing the rationale behind it then you are indeed clueless with reasoning. Just pointing out that you can’t justify a mistake with the length of exposure
I understand that it was an analogy, I just think it’s a ridiculous one.
Interesting information supplied by ArGooner. Not to be sneezed at.
That said, I noted that the young City players who got their chance were 20, 20 and 18 – more than a touch older than ours.
In many respects it was an opportunity to blood the youngsters but if the team were already depleted – as in largely second string – then I think that would have been a bridge too far. By all means throw them on with a bigger presence from the first 11 – and preferably for a home tie.
We moan about the lack of rotation, but Arteta did rotate.
I got the numbers slightly wrong, it’s actually:
£2.4m for a win
£800k for a draw
£0 for a loss
Additional £800k in the forgeries prize money from each draw is also pinned and then distributed amongst all of the teams weighted according to the number of wins the had.
So the difference between losing, drawing, and winning in the Champions’ League is huge.
Reading between the lines, when Arteta said “We’ll try to give them the opportunity if we can in the right moment” what I guess he was saying was that if we’d already tied the game up then they’d have played.
I think l’m beginning to think Arsenal will not achieve much with Mikel Arteta as the manager! The man is just so rigid and does not take advice from footballing personnel!🤔🤔
Agreed. Also, why were several PL starting XI players sent out in the second half? I really don’t think it’s because MA doesn’t know what he is doing and that those specific players did not need to be on the pitch for various reasons individual to those players. Personally I believe it would have been great to bring Gunnersaurus along to get some time on the pitch.
Gunnersaurus would have loved it
He doesn’t rotate. Rotation is not fixing eleven players for Premiership and Champions league games ( except the final group game when you have already qualified) , while relegating others to only Carabao Cups, except when injury knock on his first eleven. That is one of the problems he’s having with Partey: he doesn’t know how to say ‘ Rice, this Man Utd game, you’ll be on the bench, Partey will start” and vice versa for Liverpool game, as Guardiola is doing. That was why Xhaka left, on the news of Haverzt and Rice coming in. He knows his boss, Arteta, doesn’t rotate.
I could accept your reasoning but at present we are no nearer having sufficient depth to do what you suggest
Against PSV Arteta rotated
As for Xhaka leaving for your reasons, I’d be amazed. The only year for how many that we looked and Xhaka looked pretty good and you are blaming Arteta for him moving on!
Doesn’t rotate? 8 non-regular first-team players started.
Giving minutes to Elneny and Soares will keep them match-fit for the upcoming games
As some already said , giving opportunities to some of these young players would either save 20-30 Mil or increase their value by are few Mil. So 1.5 for winning is nothing in comparison. All the young talents in current main squad has been developed by previous managers.
A single first-team game guarantees a saving of £25 million, as opposed to a literally guaranteed amount of prize money? Really?
It will be a relief when Arsenal fans actually realize that Mikel and Pep are two completely different people!!!
Who cares what Pep did with city?
Mikel did what he felt was best for The Arsenal, now we look forward to the Brighton game.
Absolutely, and undoubtedly one of the reasons for MA doing what he did was that he was of course already planning for Brighton.
Risking MO, DR and GJ is planning for Brighton? Those guys are already overplayed and should take a break. Sorry don’t get the weird logic
Yes, it can be. Rest for any player regardless of circumstance is not always a good thing.
Really don’t get it. Why would you not rest players who are overplayed and risk injury to them when the result don’t matter?
It depends on the individual player involved. Yes, I realize you don’t get it and I don’t have the desire to address your assumption and explain the many reasons MA could have had for doing what he did. Mine and MA’s logic can remain weird to you and others who believe you should always rest players at every opportunity when a win/draw is not needed.
MO, DR and GJ all played last weekend and are need this weekend. Since none of them are short of match fitness, bringing them on was unnecessary and risky if MA was indeed already planning for Brighton. Unexplainable perhaps?
Not unexplainable but I’m wasting my time to do so.
At all ears. Fine if you choose not to back it up too
Don’t need to back it up any more than you or MA have to. We both know the players (oh yeah, that’s not one of the considerations) better than MA.
BB I have explained my view. You didn’t. You simply want me to accept that the manager knows more and is ALWAYS RIGHT
No simply stated that you felt the players were overplayed and that injury risk was higher because of playing them in this match. No evidence was provided. Just your opinion.
My opinion is that these “facts” are not necessarily true as it depends on the individual players whom MA knows much better than you or I. All you need to do is realize that there are more considerations to be made in deciding whether to rest or not to rest whomever. Of course, MA is not always right – no one is.
There is always a chance of injury when a player plays a game. It’s not an opinion, it’s a real possibility. An undeniable possibility.
Yes MA definitely knows the players better than me and he is entitled to have other considerations. I just feel that an inconsequential game is a wasted opportunity not to rest regulars and give youth a chance. Now that is an opinion
Thanks for letting us all know that there’s a chance for injury when a player plays a match.
If Arteta played the youngsters and lost, maybe heavily, we would say he likes to “copy” Guardiola.
Leave the coach to do his job for heaven’s sake 😩
Arsenal needs to win games and build confidence. And PSV and Belgrade are not the same class.
Nonsense. No thinking gunner would fault MA for using youngsters in a game that is fine to lose. Where else are we going to find an inconsequential game like that to play youngsters?
I suggest that when we thrash Liverpool in the FA Cup and draw a no hope team AND we are winning 4-0 after 55 minutes – then that is the time to bring on a young Gunner.
How do you reconcile the non regular first team players sitting on the bench while Arteta experiments?
4-0 is a safe lead but isn’t it safer for a game that we would still go through regardless of the result?
Nope, we want to see some of the young talent we have. The game was a throwaway and was meaningless. Should’ve had 1-2 youngsters start. At the bare minimum they should’ve had sub appearances. Think this was quite a miss by Mikel and he hasn’t been open to academy players really at all during his tenure. I don’t see players like Nwaneri signing another contract at this rate.
Your correct – “No thinking Gunner WOULD fault MA for using youngsters in a game that is fine to lose ”
Those same thinking Gunners wouldn’t question MA after he explained WHY he didn’t play them!!
MA’s “not the right context” explanation for a game that didn’t matter made little sense, especially when he had no qualms bringing on MO, DR and GJ who all played last weekend and are needed for Brighton
Again sushi, read what MA said and that’s how HE saw the situation.
Not the way I viewed it either, but that was his decision, so what’s the point in keep going on about it?
Just like the Newcastle game, it’s done and dusted.
Ken so what’s the point of this article and the comment section? What’s the point of Newcastle game articles? It’s always done and dusted after the game but I don’t see any issues commenting and debating on fan sites like JA
Brighton who played on Thursday, and therefore had two days less rest than our firstteamers who only played a limited role and a couple of whom have missed part of the season thorough injury?
Yes Brighton have less rest than us but does that mean we should not capitalize on it? Bringing on senior players instead of youngster was an unnecessary risk
Jesus= 8 minutes
Odedaard= 35 minutes
Rice= 35 minutes (at centre back)
They must be exhausted
How does that make irrational decisions sensible? You can downplay it all you want but it doesn’t make an irrational decision sensible
In football no game is “fine to lose” my friend. Not even a “friendly”. That’s the nature of the game. It’s a results game.
Top coaches play to win every game.
Nothing left to say with that logic of yours because even if you win the league with games to spare, you will still field you best eleven and deprive youngsters a chance since you believe a top coach must win every game even when results don’t matter. Can’t agree to that
Huge chance wasted. Probably the single best game for years to blood some players and we didn’t. There is no excuses. Arteta isn’t for youth. He hasn’t brought one youth through in 3 and a half years.
Clearly, he only plays older players. That’s why we only have the second youngest squad in the premier League.
Difference between older and experienced players though.
Argooner, that is not at all what i am saying and you are twisting. I will resay. How may academy player has Arteta brought through from scratch?
You said he isn’t for youth. How is that possible if we have the second youngest average age squad in the league? Because he isn’t playing as many 17 year olds as you’d like?
He has managed Saka and Martinelli for four years, just because he didn’t give them their debuts that means that he didn’t develop them as players? Arsenal should be looking for generational talents now, (after all how many criticise his loyalty to Nketiah and Nelson?), which, by definition are extremely rare.
How many youth players have left the club to excel elsewhere? The quality of our youth teams hasn’t been good enough for a while. Now that he, Edu, and BFG have had enough time to bring through their own players we can start to judge them for it, but we also have to trust their judgment as to whether they are good enough or not.
That isnt bringing youth through.
Because the youth players haven’t been good enough. Name one youth player that has left during Arteta’s tenure to play at a high level.
So the reason not to try and develop youth is because no one who has left made it to a high level? That’s not the Arsenal way
No, it shows that there haven’t been players of sufficient quality coming through our youth system.
It’s a lack of quality rather than a lack of opportunities.
If you don’t give young players opportunities, then you are paving the way for a lack of quality. It’s a chicken and egg kind of thing
I disagree with this notion that young players must be played at all costs. It was much more useful to see how some of the fringe players are shaping up.
If the young players are truly generational or potentially top players they will get further opportunities.
At this point we should be playing to win every game whenever possible. In this situation it was also much more important to provide playing time to players who may have to play more frequently during the coming months given the injury situation we are currently facing.
Not at all costs. More like no costs in this instance.
Yes it was important for ME and CS to play but when MA took them off, they should have been replaced by Nwaneri and Walters, if it’s to provide playing time to players who may have to play in the coming months if there’s an injury crisis
Sushi man
Give it a rest mate!
you have made more than 15 comments on this subject.
We get your point….
Sure boss
I mean, I’ve made a lot of comments too. I disagree with sushi but at least they are respectful and make relevant points. Seems strange that an admin wouldn’t want people to post to the site.
I disagree.
There were potential costs if we had ended up losing the game. It is highly debatable that a 17 year old missing out on playing in a single CL game is as much of a lost opportunity as is being claimed.
There should be plenty of other opportunities if those players are truly good enough.
Still a precious opportunity missed when you consider MA took ME and CS off after 60mins and not bring on Nwaneri and Walters
I’m a big MA fan but I admit this is one of the few aspects of his management that gives me cause for concern. That said, given how few academy players who have left have excelled elsewhere, and he comes from La Masía, I’m still willing to trust his judgement. If he thinks a certain player isn’t ready for a certain context, I still back that call. We have some great prospects coming through but many of our u21s are 17/18 and many of our u18s don’t even have scholarships yet. The future is bright and us football fans are not exactly known for our patience.
Amazingly futile debate above. There was no reason for Arteta not giving at least two of the youngsters some game time except for the fact that he saw this as one opportunity to give his favourite bench warmers a start. It’s a silly ploy especially when you want to see what these kids are capable of. The love Les of Cedric and Elneny have no where to go but out so why not try the kids in these positions to see what they are capable of. I mean Arsenal haven’t produced a decent defender since Ashley Cole unless you also include Gibbs.
The coaching staff work with them every day, they know what they are capable of- it’s the fans that want to see them play because it’s exciting, but I’ll take the professional ex-player and current manager’s judgement as a little more sound that the fans’.
You are missing the point if you think playing youths is to appease fans because it’s exciting. Playing youths is to help academy players develop
Pandering to the fans is wrong. If the trained professionals that work with them every day have taken the decision that it’s better to be patient in their development or that they aren’t ready yet I personally take their word for it.
I’m 100% convinced the club are dedicated to that, it would be great for the club and Arteta particularly if he could point to players “he brought through”, so why would he not do it if he thought he could?
Like I said earlier, giving youth opportunities to improve is not pandering to fans. It’s about developing youth from our academy.
I would love to think that the club is dedicated to developing youth. For a long time, it’s something we are proud of and sets us apart from clubs that prefer to buy their way to success. I have no idea why MA chose not to. I do know that he could have because we were through to the next round regardless of the result of the game
That should have been, ” the likes of Cedric and Elneny”.
Making football decisions is not something fans can fully understand or have to understand. But, considering the changes that have been made already in the lineup and playing against a team that haven’t lost at home for almost 2 years add the score line it’s understandable. Elneny and Cedric need games to stay sharp as they will be useful in our upcoming games due to injuries. And that’s just to name but a few….. The young lads will have their opportunity at the right time…