Kai Havertz must try harder!
After a great win on the weekend to Manchester United, Kai Havertz has again got Arsenal fans wondering how to manage him from here forward. A clear lack of confidence and perhaps new club jitters, Havertz hasn’t been able to hit the ground running yet.
All players should be given time when they move to a new club but us Arsenal fans were hoping that Havertz would slip right into Arteta’s system (especially because of his price tag), but unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case so far.
With the player having a few gruelling years with Chelsea, we hoped that he would come to Arsenal and show us the same Kai Havertz we saw win the Champions league.
In typical Arteta style he said this in his post-match press conference after the win against United “I said to him yesterday, things are hard in the beginning. When I met my wife, in the beginning it was hard to conquer her, and I had to try and keep messaging.
“In the end, she said yes, she wanted to be together, and it was beautiful. If it is a yes on the first day, it is not that great. I think the crowd was really good with him today” via Arsenal.com.
I think this is a very casual way of Arteta protecting Havertz and has been very clear whenever asked about him, he needs time to settle in and understand the system and style of play that Arteta is trying to implement. In my opinion I think Arteta needs to start him on the bench, build his confidence back up and ease him into the system.
What’s your thoughts Gooners?
Daisy Mae
that’s correct he need to watch from the bench and understand how his peers perform but just throwing him in to the first team it’s a embarrassing situation from the coach you can’t change the situation so fast let the man stay put for most of our big games and stop suffering his team mates Arteta need to understand we’re playing for points not outseason games where he’s trying an experiment
What puzzles me is why we are expected to show love and patience to player who has proved over the last 3 years with Chelsea that he is simply not premiership quality.
Arteta has an agenda with Havertz and our comments are not going to derail that. Arteta is gambling which could elevate or destroy his time at Arsenal. Time will tell!
I don’t think Arteta would’ve conquered his wife if he wasn’t a rich footballer with a great future
Havertz wouldn’t win the disappointed Gooners over if Arteta doesn’t maximize his strengths
If Havertz was instructed to operate longer in the final-third for aerial duels and high-press, he would’ve likely become more useful to us
Gai, stop insisting Arteta should tell Havertz to always stay in the box. A coach wouldn’t tell a professional footballer all he needs to do that what we call been versatile. You seem to be somewhat putting blame on the coach when Havertz isn’t even doing well in midfield where he started in Leverkusen.
Based on Havertz’s old YouTube highlights about his games for Leverkusen, he played second-striker or CAM for them
That’s why I blamed Arteta for making Odegaard press high up the pitch, instead of Havertz
Havertz is playing where Xhaka used to play that should afford him opportunity to attack just like Xhaka did and Havertz should thrive much more there. But he is even yet to make an assist. The guy should be self motivated and step up his game after Int break
Your first paragraph GAI is a shocker
Arteta’s English on this occasion is unfortunately rather ‘conservative’ but your suggestion that she was influenced by his financial situation is baloney. She was, if I recall, doing pretty well in her own right
Yeah, an Argentine actress(not the lead role type though) who is even older than he is. she is not the Hakimi’s WAG type eyeing a cash in opportunity.
In my opinion, a man’s financial situation and future will affect the marital decision of his girlfriend or fiance
How very last century GAI
SueP for what its worth, I found the idea of “a man conquering a woman”, a rather old fashioned and distasteful idea.
I accept that MA has not the best use of modern English in his locker, so will put it down to typical old school male behaviour and English not being his own language
Though I am firmly anti woke,and have little but contempt for the mistaken and untruthful notion, that by “cancelling certain people, and esp historical facts, society is able to evolve, I have for many decades past, been acutely conscious that HOW we use and misuse words,esp retrograde expressions, impinges on our ability to evolve, in many areas of life.
I ADMIT TO BEING VERY GUILTY MYSELF OF DOING PRECISELY WHAT I PREACH AGAINST. SIGH!
gai, I do not know you age or your generation, but though I suspect I a m FAR OLDER THAN YOU, I find that misogynistic notion you use, to be horrible, insulting to women kind- and to men too BTW- and urge you never to repeat it.
I also urge you to think far more deeply about life and how human relationships work in modern times and about how humankind its doing its best to evolve from retrograde and harmful expressions such as yours.
Well said Jon
I never cease to be amazed how such ideas still persist.
I do not believe that Arteta is in any way a misogynist. If instead of the word ‘conquer’ he had said ‘win her over’ we wouldn’t even be discussing it. English is not his native tongue so give him a break. He was just trying to ‘put his arm’ around one of his struggling players which is his job. Much ado about nothing!!!
EXACTLY Andrew!!
The world is now a place where one is on a banana skin every second of the day.
Trip over a manhole cover? Then describe it as a personhole cover, otherwise your being sexist!!!
I have two daughters and they cringe at the nonsense that is being described as equality.
Mikel Arteta has used a word that offends others, get over it for heavens sake!!!
If anyone thinks he was using it in a detrimental way, God help their narrow mindless thinking.
As for GAI and his male status, what a load of cobblers…. sorry marbles!!!
These days women are often the bread winners and I suspect there’s a few men out there looking for a rich female to mollycoddle them.
Agree Ken with all you say. Liked your analogy on ‘man’hole covers though!!!
Andrew YES I agree qith your point , but I add THIS important rider. i do not agree that it is much ado about NOTHING though.
LANGUAGE is powerful and although most mature and sensible folk make full allowance for a non English as first language speaker using it in a clumsy and ill advised manner, it is STILL of importance to learn as quickly as one can, when living a settled life in what is a foreign country, to any person in an important position like AFC manager,and to QUICKLY become fluent.
MA has lived in England for very many years and personallly, though I understand that he was TRYING to say just as you outlined, it is nevertheless IMPORTANT not to, even through lack of langauge skill, insult effectively half our human race.
For what its worth, I too, am convinced MA is as far from being a misogynist as one can be. But wrong use of language can easily persuade SOME folk otherwise and that does not help social cohesion.
It was what did for Emery whose English was far worse than MA s.
Even Wenger never learned to say the word “also” but always used “as well”.
Harmless enough in THAT case but not in MA’s, At least that is MY opinion.
My hope is that the views of such as I, SueP and other wise minds will reach MA s ears, ere long.
Those who ignore the damage that wrong use of language can do , are vastly underrating that harm,IMO.
I take you point Jon, when I first heard him use it, it definitely grated on me but on reflection I changed my position. I real life he probably speaks and listens to more Spanish at home or when discussing tactics with his assistant coaches. He obviously speaks English when addressing players. I like to put myself in others’ shoes before criticising. In this case Arteta was at the end a microphone at a press conference, so under a bit of pressure, and used a literal translation from his mother tongue to a very difficult language i.e. English. He did have a wistful smile on his face when he used the word as if it brought up great memories. That clinched it for me, nothing derogatory was meant.
Wenger on the other hand insisted on day one that English and nothing else would be spoken at all times.
Andrew, I don’t believe that Arteta is a misogynist either but it was GAI’s reaction and the enduring idea that women are incapable of supporting themselves. I am the breadwinner in my relationship as I suspect many women are in theirs.
Your term – win her over – is exactly as I saw it and I agree with your sentiments about Arteta’s role in trying to help Havertz settle in
Sue, I read GAI’s reaction but didn’t bother to react because he is impervious to criticism. Unfortunately his view is typical amongst some of the men I speak to where I live in North West England which is a sad indictment of my gender.
My late brother who was a writer and freelance journalist spent his final years writing about the unequal treatment in the workplace in particular the NHS. What hurt him the most was when an article he presented for publication was rejected for being too biased on woman’s rights and that it might upset some of their males readership.
Change is happening but too slowly for me
‘male’ not in the plural!
There’s been lots of theories on how to get the best out of Havertz. There are two that caught my eye.
The first is that Gabriel Jesus would complement Havertz better than Nketiah who has played well so far but doesn’t have some of the skills Jesus has. The thinking is that Jesus usually drops deep to link up with the midfielders. Coupled with his close control,this usually creates space which a player like Havertz can exploit like we saw in preseason.It worked well for Xhaka so in theory atleast,it should work for Martinelli and the player occupying the left half wing position.
The second involves ‘flipping’ the lineup which means having Odegaard occupy the left while Havertz goes to the right. The argument is that both Marts and Havertz are direct players and sometimes get in each other’s way whereas Saka and Odegaard rely more on technique and get on the ball more. The assumption is that a technical player could pair better with a more direct one. What do other gunners think of these ideas?
Not good! Why should we change our captain’s position only to accomodate the underperforming Havertz? Havertz purchase has a huge question mark on it from every perspective and a big gamble!
Arteta is acting in an unscrupulous manner. On one hand he wants certain players to earn their positions in the team, while he comes up with silly excuses for giving Havertz preferential treatment, all because he went and spent an unthinkable, unwarranted R65million on him. If Havertz needs time to adjust why is he not on the bench? We saw when he failed dismally on the challenge contest in America during the preseason matches.
I thought, when I first heard Arteta say that cheesy line that he was trying to copy Wengers far better, wittier and original line about “every man thinks he has the prettiest wife at home”!
Whether it was Wengers aura or his natural Gallic charm, it sounded fine when he said it but merely a cheesy attempt at a Havertz gee up, coming from MA.
I’d stick to football analogys MA and leave the cheesiness to those to whom it suits.
Bench him. He offers nothing to the team. Would prefer trossard all day. What a waste of space in the team
Havertz won’t be benched any time soon. Edu and Arteta would look like fools if this Havertz thing fails. They will play him every game to justify spending £65m on him. I just hope he proves all the doubters wrong. I really do because he has the potential to be phenomenal. Let’s just support him and the manager until the time arrives otherwise!
Man, this will be the worst football decision. So its all about who is your agent,who signed you rather than your footballing ability. Just sad
@ John Fox: you are spot on!
Perhaps better for the lads confidence to sit on the bench and learn. Watch his teammates who know the system and their teammates play; watch their movements, positioning, and how they pass and play with possession.
Right now he looks uncomfortable, unsure, and his movements and positioning have him looking out of place and a step off the pace.
I believe he will sort himself out, but the pressure of performing now like Rice and Timber is having a noticeable effect on Kai.
Treat him like ESR and Vieira, make him raise his level and earn his chances. In the end it will help the player more than gifting starts and glossing over subpar performances.
I disagree.
He may not get to play every game but at this stage Havertz cannot be treated the same as ESR or Vieira. In my view benching him in this way would only be appropriate if there was a world class alternative to play the same role.
For us to mount serious challenges on multiple fronts we need to get the best out of Haverz as quickly as possible.
Agree Durand, favourites or favouritism is not healthy for the squad, especially if you are not deserving it. Its a sad situation seeing Arteta flogging us a dead horse at all costs. Haverz is playing exactly the way he played for Chelsea for 3 seasons. No different, just the same. What are we all supposed to be waiting for? Let him earn it. Willian was a total embarrassment to the shirt because he was given more time than he deserved. Haverz may or may not come good but he is not good at the minute and is not the surprise package people thought he could be. If there are not any players that can do a better job than Haverz, we are in trouble.
How would we know if Vieira or ESR could do better when they are never given a chance?
The idea that Havertz is the solution to the midfield question is far from convincing. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t, time and performances will tell.
While this is ongoing Vieira is playing Circles around Havertz, and ESR has to be wondering what he has to do to get a chance.
Havertz should be on the bench until he plays his way into the lineup, I don’t want to hear any more about “competition” or “raising your game” regarding other players while Havertz is strolling about with his low-energy low-production self.
I could be mistaken but praising Havertz while he is not performing at the levels required,feels counter-intuitive to me no?
Does Arteta think he is the next Socrates or Aristotle. Where are all these silly wisdoms coming from.
He literally is! A great philosopher at that.sad fans could’nt see what i’m seeing.
They are fortunate then!
Alright then If you think so.
Can’t believe he thinks it is okay to conquer women. Really tells you everything about this clown.
Clown??
What an unfortunate analogy… ‘conquer a woman’. Sounds like the spoils of war.
Most of us have watched Havertz over the years for Chelsea as well as presently for our beloved Arsenal. My eyes tell me Havertz is not all that. £65 million…….Arteta desperately wants to justify his giant outlay. It may be better to start Havertz from the bench. I have a disturbing feeling that Havertz will not work out at Arsenal, but I hope he has a couple of gears we haven’t seen, otherwise we will be playing with ten and a half men every week.
Kai Havertz had been instrumental in Arsenal play without the ball. His physic, intelligent and off the ball work helped the team to conquer and control matches so far. He made Casemiro look average. His defensive stats are impressive but his attacking output had been horrendous. Maybe he is trying too hard or lack confidence. After those silly corrupted years at Chelsea, it’s quite understandable.
Are you serious?
I think Havertz and Odegaard together is a bit awkward. Viera would be a more better partner for him as he’s more direct than Odegaard and Viera is great at lobbing balls into the box unlike Odegaard. Odegaard is a more ground passer. Viera has those Debryune like diagonal passes in his game which could benefit Havertz thrive.
I think Arteta has a choice to start with someone like ESR or Trossard with Odegaard in the first half and bring Havertz and Viera in the second half. Viera in the Xhaka role and Havertz in the odegaard’s role. And shift the game more central with Havertz getting into the box, Saka cutting in and Viera launching passes into the box to Havertz head.
I can easily see truth in both sides of the “keep him in or drop HAVERTZ” debate which dominates this site recently.
I easily see how a players coinfidence can be harmed or even totally destroyed by constant fan derision.
Equally, I can easily see the notion that the current team success is far more important OVERALL, to all of us andour club itself, than the possibly lost confidence of one single player, who for whatever reason, is plainly not earning his place right now.
So then, to stick or to twist??!
My conclusion is that we have to keep faith in our manager to decide, for the team he runs.
WE are obviously allowed our opinions but,in reality, I see not a single opinion having the slightest affect on what MA decides . And THAT, to me, is the bottom line.
100% with you
Indeed Jon and by his decisions he survives or goes down.
That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning and it’s not rocket science – I only wish previous managers had got the same commitment from the fanbase.
Such as? In my time as fan we’ve gone through eight managers, practically a handful by modern standards. I can’t think of one of those the fans ‘got at’ bar Emery, for the vast majority of their career. Only when the wheels have been well and truly falling off has any sizeable element of the fans turned. Even then, only three managers have lasted less than four years, and only one of those was berated – Emery. Our fans are, despite the media bull, are among the most patient and most loyal in the country. On that note, I’ll admit I shed a tear when I heard Terry had gone…
Let me just list the managers I was referring to:
Unai Emery
Arsene Wenger (post Emirates)
Bruce Rioch
If the owners / board had given those managers the support that (quite rightly) Mikel Arteta has had, our club wouldn’t have had such a long period of trophy less seasons.
Ken An easily deciphered cryptic post that refers to AW and perhaps to my long held opinion that he would have helped our club more had he stayed only half the time he eventually did.
Now Ken, i only mention it now as you posted this under rmy own post knowing I would read it. I hardly eve r now mention AW at all and certainly not about his last decade or so here and hope we can BOTH drop scoring AW points over each other. I HAVE TRULY MOVED ON AND MOVED ON A LONG WAY.
When I think at all about AW at all, which is far from often, I bless him for the decade of glory he gave our team for the evolved human values he left behind and which still remain and for how his, albeit too long stay, greatly enhanced our global reach.. Any bitterness I had, at one time, later in his time here, has long since vanished and been replaced with fondness.
Nuff said!
BTW, Ken I sent in my article , an hour ago, on time wasting. I have given much detail as to how I wouold prefer to tackle its growth andturn back tide.
Hopefully it wil appear early tomorrow; we will see!
I’ll try not to waste too much time lol
Kai will come through
Even Xhaka the Former-Villain eventually shined, so why won’t Kai
We fans just don’t feel it’s time for this, when there are about 3 other people on the bench that can do way way better
But I’ll now rest my confidence in the knowledge that his jittery/fear will without doubt continue diminishing with time (Whether Starting Or Eventually Relegated To The Bench)
Look at Viera
I was an ardent accuser of that boy last season – I knew the talent is there
But it didn’t look like he knows how to apply it
But now he is
With Kai, we all know the talent is there
Viera needed a whole year
At most, Kai will need a whole year too, but I seriously doubt that
If he continuous starting
I believe his next 4th start would not be with this current levels of jittery
Chelsea waited for 3 years for Havertz to show his talent
There are many chelsea players who their fans are waiting to produce – Mudryk for example.
They have been in utter chaos since Abramovitch was forced out, while we have not.
Everyone needs a settled regime in order to produce their best work – will Havertz do that?
MA seems to think so and that’s the bottom line.