Cesc Fabregas has named Arsene Wenger as one of the two best managers that he has played under.
The Spaniard has had a glittering career as a professional and has been managed by some of the world’s best coaches at the various clubs he has played at.
He left La Masia as a 16-year old to sign for Arsenal under Wenger and watched first hand as the Gunners went through the 2003/2004 season unbeaten.
He would later become an Arsenal captain before he left the Gunners for Barcelona in 2011.
The current AS Monaco star was answering questions from fans in an Instagram live video as quoted by the Sun and one of the questions was about who was his best manager.
He initially shrugged off the question but the question kept coming and he eventually chose Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho.
After deciding to return to England from Barcelona in 2014, Fabregas joined Chelsea who was managed by Mourinho at the time after Arsenal rejected the chance to re-sign him.
He would go on to win the Premier League two times with the Blues before he left them to join AS Monaco.
Wenger stayed as Arsenal manager for 22 years before leaving them in 2018, he has now taken up a role at FIFA.
Just watched Reloaded… what a game! What a performance!
BFG our MOTM!!
Rambo – our Wembley hero ❤
Sue, and yet we have fans on here who say we haven’t had defenders at our club since 2009 – even Tony, Sol,Bouldy or Keown couldn’t have done a better job…AND…what a performance by Holding.
How we let Aaron walk out on us for nothing is a mystery and one of the worst decisions our club has made.
This game was the one that Arsene Wenger should have realized was the time to resign, beating the champions at Wembley with a stunning display.
Letting gazidis and kronkie talk him into another two years was such a shame.
Ken- I could probably give you 9Million reasons why it didn’t take too much for Wenger to sign. And not sure if I heard him complaining too much about being forced to stay either.
And Ken, answer me this if you could.Wenger coached a Masterclass defensive display against Chelski that day, with a novice in Holding and a left back in Monreal either side of the BFG.He had a youthful Bellerin at RWB and an attacking midfielder in The Ox at LWB. So how did he then proceed to allow the complete embarrassments that followed the following season? Let me know if you would like me to list them for you, it would of course be my pleasure
Phil, it would be my pleasure to debate with you on Wenger’s worst season of the 22, something we have both agreed on many times before, so not sure what you want to prove, but I’ll await them with great interest and will give you my thoughts as requested.
Meanwhile let me remind you that you have often said we had no defenders since, what was it, 2009?
Are you now implying that the players you mention were actually defenders?
Just to remind you, over the twenty two years of AW’s defensive failures, they conceded 0 .99 goals a game on average, so when compiling your list of what went wrong the following season, why not work out what the average was for that year as well?
It should confirm what we have agreed on, it was time to go then, as I suggested to Sue.
Finally, just how long did it take for Wenger to agree the reported £9,000,000 salary and do we know what clauses were in it to earn that sum?
Games won, top four finish, CL qualification, cup wins?
I have no idea, but it seems most probable that there would be said clauses, wouldn’t you agree?
The evidence I have, is that kronkie and gazidis started talks as early as October 2016, before he did sign on the 30th May 2017 (bleacherreport.com), so the reported money doesn’t seem to be the driving force you imply you it was.
Maybe he was contemplating not signing and that was what you mean by not complaining?
Why do you think it took him eight months before committing himself to the club that, it seems, were looking nowhere else but to him?
Anyway, look forward to the stats for the 17/18 season, where we finished 6th (as the season before) the lowest since 1995, when GG took us to 12th place.
Ken- let me give you an example of Wengers inability to coach a defence following his new contract.
10th Jan 2018. Chelsea Away League Cup Semi Final. Holding Mustafi Chambers as our 3 Centre Backs, Drew 0-0 and it was a deserved result which helped us through to Wembley after a 2-1 win at the Emirates in the second leg.
14th January- FOUR DAYS LATER. Lost 2-1 away to Bournemouth. Our 3 Centre Backs? Holding Mustafi Chambers. So against a far lesser team, we lose four days after a very sound defensive display against Chelsea.
30th January- Swansea City Away. Went 1-0 UP. One minute later, SIXTY SECONDS, it’s 1-1. Result! Lost 3-1. Centre Backs that evening? Mustafi and Koscielny. Arsenal had 74% possession and had just NINE attempts on goal. Swansea had 24% possession and managed TWELVE shots on goal.
Basically, we were outplayed. I was there, as I was at EVERY GAME BAR THREE that whole season. It was humiliating and embarrassing at the same time. Outplayed by a team that was relegated at the end of the season.
Three weeks later the mighty Arsenal Football Club lost AT HOME to a football club called Ostersund in the Europa League. This was nearly as bad as losing to Notts Forest 4-2 on the 7th Jan, just a few weeks earlier and only 3 days before the 0-0 at Stamford Bridge.
10 days after the Ostersund humiliation, Wenger sent out a side at Wembley that produced the most insipid, dire, humiliating, embarrassing performance of ANY side I have ever witnessed in a Wembley Final. The performance was abject. Four days later? City at home. Score line? 0-3. Another total embarrassment A defensive display to match all the others I have mentioned. And this is only from Jan- 1st March.Three days later? Lost 2-1 to Brighton. FFS a few weeks later and we lose away at Newcastle. NOBODY LOSES AWAY AT NEWCASTLE.
Let me give you a date I will always remember. 13th May 2018. Away at Huddersfield. Won the game 1-0. I was there to witness the final ever game Wenger was in charge of The Arsenal. The applause he received from the Away fans at the end of the game ( not me of course) was, I’m sure, to actually say to the man , thank god you have finally gone, now can we start to get our Club back please.
So for all the statistics you print to attempt to make Wenger seem better than we all know he was when it came to defending, actually look at the results. They are facts. Not statistics. And the Facts prove Wenger was not good at putting out teams to defend, which cost our club more than embarrassment, it actually cost us points and league placing due to his negligence and stubbornness.
And that is not a statistic, that is a FACT
Phil, I note with interest that not once do you blame the players at all…the same players who, in one game produce a master class and the next perform like rank amateurs.
Do you think Wenger expected the same three players to perform as they did against chelsea and bournemouth?
Did you? Did anyone? Should Wenger have? Of course not
Are the players not accountable at all for there performances?
If the team that Wenger selected had 74% of possession and couldn’t win the game, isn’t the onus on them and not the guy who sent them out there to get possession and score?
What was Wenger supposed to do? Run on the pitch and score for these international players who were letting him down?
I was at the final as well and up and until Mustafi decided to play little boy lost and present city with their first goal, we were fine.
How could Wenger have anticipated such a unbelievable error of judgement? He was not a mind reader or someone who could forsee the future, something that you seem to believe he should have been capable of doing.
We lost to the eventual premier league champions… let me remind you of a little side called Swindon Town who beat us at Wembley, does that not fit into your scenario Phil regarding bashing Wenger?
Nobody loses at Newcastle? Come on Phil, what was the score when City played there on the 29th January 2019? Yep, they lost 2-1… the same year on the 6/10 manure lost 1-0…on the 13th May 2018, newcastle beat chelsea 3-0…on the 9/3/19 they beat everton 3-2…beat chelsea AGAIN in a third round fa cup replay 1-0 on 18/1/19…oh and spuds lost 5-1 in 2016:
Now I’m not defending our loss, but let’s not make up false claims in order to make that loss seem worse and like something that has never happened to other big clubs
I have no need or reason to defend AW, he’s been gone for two years and here I am, still supporting the club, still attending matches and still defending this ludicrous claim that everything that went wrong on the pitch is down to him.
You actually made my reasoning easier, when you quoted the same players producing such different performances.
Mentioning the forest game is a great example…you forget, for some reason, to mention that this was his first 3rd round defeat in his 21 years (at that time) as manager, perhaps because it would mean he actually did have a defense on those other twenty occasions and that they were defending winning the trophy from the year before?
We played terrible football, deserved to lose, it shouldn’t have happened, but is that a reason to forget the other twenty 3rd round wins, by accusing him of not having coached his defences? Not for me Phil, no way!!!
All the examples you have given were from his last two years in charge, during which the chelsea cup final win started this debate and most Gooners would say the final year was a disaster – I certainly believe it was anyway and you know that.
I’m not sure what you mean by statistics and facts…the statistics show that in twenty two years under Wenger, he has the best defensive record of any of our three double winning managers.
One doesn’t play in the CL for twenty years without a defence, or finish in the top four without a defence, yet you seem to be saying just that, when the FACT is, that is what Wenger achieved during his time at our club.
Could he have done better? Of course he could have done.
Could we have won more trophies? Probably.
Could/Should he have left earlier? Most certainly.
Could his final year have clouded his achievements and how some view his time at our club?
Absolutely. That is why looking at the results is what we SHOULD do…the results show us as a top four club for twenty consecutive years and singling out bad results will not change that absolute FACT.
Agreed Ken – Holding was superb also – kept that dirty sod Costa at bay!!
Also agree about Ramsey, he did score some really important goals for us – I know not many on here feel the same, but I wish we’d kept him 😔
Also, watching Sanchez, I still think he made a mistake leaving us, especially for that lot!!
Not much i can say about Arsene, Ken.. it is what it is… was nice seeing how happy he was lifting that trophy though!! Superb performance from all, loved it!!
Plenty I can say about Wenger Sue, particularly after he screwed a 2 year contract on £9m a year after that Chelsea Cup Final.
@Ken1845 is very keen on publishing statistics, most lately on Wengers defensive performances. So, let’s look at the final 2017-18 season, his last during which he was sacked.
Arsenal finished SIXTH that last season.The goals conceded by the teams above us at the end of the season were
Citeh. 27
Man Ure. 28
Dustbinlids. 36
Scousers. 38
Chelski. 38
Arsenal. FIFTY ONE
Burnley finished seventh and only conceded THIRTY NINE.
The bottom six teams, in order conceded the following
Brighton. 54
Huddersfield. 58
Southampton. 56
Swansea. 56
Stoke ( Dirty Scum). 68. Shawcross you tosser.
West Brom. 56
We basically, under Professor Wenger, conceded only FIVE GOALS FEWER than TWO RELEGATED TEAMS.
So Ken, please let me know how these FACTUAL FIGURES are allowed for in your statistics.Embarrasing as this may be for you.
Phil, nothing about Arsene Wenger embarrasses me!
It’s the fans who abuse him that do that!
When per mertesacker informed us that he resigned, it came as no surprise to anyone, especially as the figures you quote for his last season shows…more of that later, but first:
Tell me Phil, when you defend Ozil’s contract by saying the club offered it and he accepted, why you find the same scenario regarding Wenger so different?
Did Ozil screw the club then or did Wenger accept a contract put forward by kronkie and gazidis?
I notice you didn’t question my thoughts regarding clauses within that “screwed” contract. Why was that?
Could it be that, like me, you haven’t a clue what was in it?
Much the same argument you and I have made regarding Ozil’s contract.
For me, the name doesn’t change the argument, does it for you?
You also didn’t reply to the fact that gazidis and kronkie had the contract on the table for, it was reported, eight months before he actually signed it…that seems one hell of a long time to be “screwing” the club, and in actual fact puts the timescale long before the wonderful cup final win that you believe he used to get two more years, back to October previous in fact.
Now, on to those figures you produced:
As you say, I love facts over opinions and you have produced these awful and undeniable facts concerning that last woeful year and no one can argue or disagree with them.
Facts are the most powerful things to have when discussing a difference of opinion and I will use your facts to discuss further now.
There was no doubt that, based on these accurate facts, time was up and Wenger did the honourable thing.
Now Phil, let’s just think about what those facts also tell us, regarding the accusation that we didn’t have a proper defence since 2006/2008, take your pick, it’s the claim that counts.
If we take those 51 goals away from the 807 premier league goals conceded during his reign, it works out at 756 – divide that by the total number of premier league games under Wenger, which is 828, the average is one goal per game.
So, despite the awful last season (why you think I disagree with you on that I have no idea by the way) this manager who is being presented as clueless regarding defensive issues, by buying dross, lazy, clueless players, somehow or another over twenty one years averaged one goal conceded per game in the most highly contested league in the world.
Even more amazing is that if you take those 51 goals away from the total figure of games played (cups, CL, CS and premier league) it works out at 0.95 goals.
Now if you think that those figures are an embarrassment to our club, Wenger, or even me, think again.
I find them astounding and, in my opinion, only one manager will better them, fergie.
What I find as embarrassing, is supporters of our club not taking into account the amazing results achieved with, reading their own views, dross, lazy, no idea how to defend, weak, mentally frail, worthless defenders who were given no tactics by a manager who had no idea about defending!!!
There can only be one or two answer to this Phil, either the players were as described, Wenger was a genius for twenty one of his twenty two years, or the complete opposite…meaning that Wenger actually signed players who were so much better than some said they were…unless it was a little of both of course.
I have my opinion on which one is correct, but as we are discussing facts here, I’ll keep that to myself.
One thing is for certain though Phil, your assessment of that awful last year is undeniable…one cannot argue with facts and why would one want to?
Wow and to think I only wanted to talk about our win over the chavs at Wembley 😄
Fascinating stuff from you and Ken though, Phil, and not even a mention of parrot smugglers, tights or high heels 😂
Ken- in reply to your comments.
These were Wengers players, coached by Wenger, with instructions to play in the way Wenger demanded.The fact these players were so inconsistent, well, ask Wenger.After all, he bought them did he not? Coached then did he not? Played them did he not?
The Citeh final- yeah another Mustafi error in the catalogue of Mustafi errors.The player? Bought by Wenger. Coached by Wenger.
Sort of says it all do you not believe.
Newcastle away? That was a tongue in cheek comment, with no mention of the fact that previously Wenger sent a side out at St James Park with players all bought by Wenger, and after leading 4-0 at half time, what did these players, bought by Wenger, Coached by Wenger achieve? A 4-4 draw. After being 4 Nil up. Was you at that game Ken? I was. Another Wenger masterclass from players bought by Wenger, coached by Wenger. There’s a repetitive theme here don’t you think?
Exactly Phil, just as my article highlighting the successes( that, for some reason that I cannot understand, you seem loathe to talk about and celebrate), were down to the same forces you describe.
Also the repetitive top four 20 years, the Invincibles, the double double, the seven fa cup wins that was achieved by wengers coaching, wengers attacking formation, defensive tactics and wengers signings.
I know your reference to the 4-4 draw is also tongue in cheek, (despite you actually mentioning many times before) because you forgot to remember the sending off and the level of refereeing…unless you believe it was a sending off offence and actually a penalty Phil?
I just used facts to make sure you knew that I knew it had to be a tongue in cheek comment!!!
Now, about that contract….
The Contract? This is the issue I have with Gazidis and without doubt the single worst piece of business this Club ever did. The Manager was a spent force, we could all see this. Slowly but surely, we were beginning to slide away from the TopFour and the CL place Wenger always stated was where we needed to be.He should never have been allowed to decide when and if he would sign a new contract, which is what he did. Months and months before the seasons end, he is on record as saying that HE will decide what HE would be doing when the season ended. When did Arsenal Football Club become second fiddle to an ageing, over the hill, out of date Manager who clearly believed there was no Arsenal Football Club without him? What gave him the right to decide if he signed a new contract or simply walked away, which is what he implied. And, most importantly in my view, why was Wenger allowed to run down his contract in the way he did and subsequently have total charge of the situation. Many have, quite rightly in my opinion, vented anger at the players who used the option of running down their contract to force the club into either letting them go for free, or being offered term way above their worth and value. Yet Wenger was able to do this himself. So yes Ken, let’s talk about the contract, I would happily read your thoughts.
In regards the goals against and defending issues that you very conveniently divide into seasons to camouflage the utter embarrassment of the facts, I will now have to find the time to go further with this. You are using statistics Ken, which although provide a base, prove to be wholly miscalculated when facts are presented.
And Ken, in these days when I admit, most of the country, if not the world have unexpected time on their hands, may I advise you to take up an additional hobby. Knitting perhaps? You seem to have far too much time on your hands, even in today’s world we are living in.
So Ken- let’s look at the Swansea game in more detail. 74% possession and just 9 attempts on goal.Against a team that were relegated at the end of the season. You blame the players, but if you recall, Wenger had a way of playing that EVERY team knew before we even started the match. What did the vast majority of teams do when facing Arsenal? They just sat back, defended in numbers, and wait for us to run out of ideas before hitting us on the break. This was the norm in most games, home and away, because Wenger had no Plan B. It was the same every game, especially away from home, and most especially against teams struggling at the foot of the table. Of the sides that were relegated that season in addition to Swansea, we drew 1-1 away at West Brom, and LOST to Stoke City 1-0. We therefore picked up One Point out of nine from away matches against the relegated sides. If you look at the three teams above the ones who were relegated, the scores were Southampton 1-1 draw, Brighton 2-1 loss plus the 1-0 win at Huddersfield. That means the mighty Arsenal Football Club, under Wenger, who bought every one of these players and coached them to play the way he wanted them to play, picked up a total of FIVE POINTS out of a possible EIGHTEEN POINTS away from home against the bottom 6 clubs that season. That is THIRTEEN POINTS dropped.
If we had wine every one of the games, which for a club of our size, stature and ( supposed ) ambition, should have won, we would have ended the season in FOURTH PLACE, but still one point below the Spuds. That alone shows how far Wenger had allowed us to slide away.
And Ken, please answer me this. You are very quick to defend Wenger at all costs and blame the players. So why did Arsenal sack Unai Emery? After all, you are suggesting it’s the players and NOT the manager who is to blame.
Hi Phil, spent the last hour making notes from your reply, so will try to answer them in order of presentation.
BUT FIRST;
The most crucial thing to get straight is concerning my wife!!
She is distraught that you feel I have to learn how to knit, as she thinks you are not happy with the red and white hat she knitted for you – she thinks that she may have dropped a stitch here or there, that it was too small/large or that she got the colours wrong. Perhaps in your reply, you could set the record straight?
At the moment, she has tears in her eyes and I want to help, but rules are rules and she has to stay outside as we self isolate…her knitting wool is getting soaked by the way and I blame you – I’m sure you will, somehow or another, manage to switch it over to AW.
Now, on to the less relevant issues within your two posts:
First of all, this “slowly but surely slipping away from the top four”.
Let’s look at that statement over the second twelve years of AW’s reign, 2006/07.
4-3-4-3-4-3-4-4-3-2-5-6:
Now the last two seasons were the first that we failed to halt this so called and invisible”steady decline” and when we finished in 5th place, it was only one point that separated us from another top four spot. We did of course, win the fa cup that year, so for me, at least, your description of “slowly slipping out of the top four” is really overstated – something that kronkie and gazidis obviously didn’t see from the stats.
I’m also fairly certain that they would have taken into account the “new money” that changed the face of the premier league beyond recognition (city and chelsea) and recognised that, despite this, AW was still able to keep the club in the top four, which, of course, paid for his contract year after year (20 in fact).
I notice you evaded the Ozil/Wenger comparision, but concentrated solely on Wenger.
So you are saying, I think, that Wenger should not have had a choice as to whether or not he would sign a contract?
Why would you take the basic right of anybody to decide their future?
As you know, the contract was not the result of being held to ransom, as I assume you checked that negotiations began way back in October of the previous year, eight months before he agreed to sign it? Desperate or what?
So it seems that, now, Phil your saying he didn’t hold the club to ransom after winning the cup final, but was planning it for eight months, knowing he was going to win the cup final!?!?!?
Your claim that I defend Wenger under any situation is, Phil, quite untrue and you are well aware of that fact.
I assume this is another tongue in cheek statement, because otherwise it hardly seems worth continuing – I will make my position clear one more time though with my opinions:
Wenger should have gone after the chelsea cup final.
Wenger made some awful signings.
Wenger was obstinate.
Wenger was too protective to the owner.
Wenger lost the players during his last season.
All the above, I have said on this site at various times and to you, personally, out in Athens, is that correct or not Phil?
BUT, with all these faults, Arsene was the most successful manager of our club, revolutionized football, bought and developed incredible players, formed the Invincibles and raised the profile of The Arsenal to become a global name across the world.
51 goals conceded in one season and a first ever third round fa cup defeat seems a very small price to pay for that incredible resume.
Next I think is the “blame game” for want of a better expression…was it AW or was it the players?
In my view, both are culpable for the results during his last season. I have no doubt whatsoever, that Arsene had lost the plot and did not motivate the players in any way – the players then saw “easy street beckoning” and also took it easy.
One only has to look at what Mikel Arteta has achieved with the likes of mustafi as one clear example of what I mean.
Neither AW, in his last season, or UE in his eighteen months, got anywhere near to showing what made Wenger sign him in the first place.
That leads me to your UE question quite nicely.
You asked why UE was sacked?
Player revolt-fan toxicity- club in turmoil-relegation issues-tactics-man management skills-communication skills-team selection all come to mind, plus the above example of mustafi being told he could leave officially, only to see MA show what UE couldn’t do.
Was relegation ever thought or talked about under AW Phil?
Never in a million years, even letting in 51 goals and losing at Newcastle and Swansea was that subject ever on the horizon. even you are talking about top four finishes.
Putting AW and UE together as examples is like chalk and cheese, unless one is crackers!!!
I think that’s it Phil and, to follow up on your remark about having to spend more time looking out facts, I use our Official Handbook 2018/19 for this purpose and I recommend it to you, as it contains all our history down to such things as this little gem:
The defence that GG left for AW to inherit, played 42 games, finished 12th and conceded 49 goals.
AW, with four games less and in his first season finished 3rd and conceded 32 goals.
If I haven’t answered any of your questions, please ask again, meanwhile Phil, what was your answer to the OzilWenger question regarding contracts, plus theonesI have asked in this post?
Well Ken, I must begin with the knitting. Your most lovely wife sent me and my wife two beautifully made Red and White knitted hats that we will both wear to The Emirates with our thanks and gratitude. The point I was making re time on your hands was simply that as two retired old codgers, one with a modern, trendy dress sense, and the other being yourself, could spend our twilight years banging heads over Mr Wenger, but I really do have more important things to do than continually drudge up the past.
So Ken, I myself have now decided to take up knitting. I have a field full of sheep very close to me in the village I live in, so getting hold of the Will will not be a problem. Getting hold of the Sheep may well be, but as all Male species would no doubt do in these situations, I will simply throw the wife over the fence and leave that side of thing to her.
Seriously Ken, I continue to admire your loyalty to the bloke whose t-shirt you wear with such pride ( see what I mean about dress sense ), and admit that it’s very difficult to counter some of the points you post with such vigour and enthusiasm.
So knitting it is from now on. The wool is sorted ( when the wife gets back from the field ) and it Cant be that difficult can it? Cannot?
You take good care of yourself up there in your Scottish Estate, and particular love to Marian.
Phil, I have passed on your thoughts to Marian and she asks if she could be the first recipient of your wall tapestry, featuring the “seven deadly sins of Arsene Wenger”?
I told her it would take years, but she didn’t recognize my dry humour, saying instead that I shouldn’t knock a beginner!!
A great debate sir, some of your points made me sit back and digest as usual, but isn’t that what a sensible debate is all about.
Along with Kenny Rolfe, your knowledge and commitment to our club is tremendous and I acknowledge that completely.
It is amazing how you and I view this time with such a different perspective of AW and with such conviction as well.
At least we know Sue enjoyed the “mud slinging”, the three of us had the site all to ourselves.
Hark!!! I hear the sounds of knitting needles once again, so I’ll leave you to your sheep.
Keep Lin safe and look after yourself, looking forward to that project you mentioned my fellow Gooner.
Sue-you certainly brought out the very worst of Ken and myself and long may it continue.
Stay safe and well Sue and look after yourself.
Always love reading what you and Ken have to say!!
Thanks Phil, you too!