DENNIS BERGKAMP AND MESUT OZIL COMPARISION – AN INSULT OR A PERFECTLY RESPECTABLE, SOUND AND REASONABLE THING TO DO FROM 2013 TO 2018?
There are times when the comments and thoughts of fans seem to join the most unlikeliest of names together, but in this instance and dates above, a player most regard as THE greatest player in our modern era and a World Cup winner are, on reflection, not the case at all.
One such time was an article written by Dan Smith on the 24/7/20, published at 8.31 am on the “JustArsenal” website.
The title was “Villa defeat tells me Arsenal still need Ozil against Watford” and had plenty of reaction, as is usual with any of Dan’s excellent articles.
One of the responses came from a fellow Gooner, well known for his dislike of Ozil – as he has every right to do of course.
A section of his reply caught my eye in particular, the quote being “and some have the guts to compare Ozil to Dennis Bergkamp.” (Not sure what “guts” have to do with it, but that’s by the by.)
Now that might or might not be true, but there were no names mentioned, no examples given, just a Trump-ike empty statement that was meant to appeal to his fellow thinking fan base, as it did of course.
So I asked him to give me examples of anyone on “JustArsenal” (after all, this was the site we were on!!!) who had made these claims, because I had never seen any such comparisons myself and I have been on JA for, I think, five years!!!
I thought I would also take this opportunity to ask anyone on here who has actually made this comparison to please come forward and identify yourselves…let’s wait and see what happens.
However, someone else did do some fact finding and came up with three examples of comparisons with DB and MO, none other than Arsene Wenger, Robert Pires and, later, someone called Mo1 in a JA archived article of 2015.
The thing that puzzled me though, was the fact no dates were given in either of the AW/DP quotes, so, being inquisitive, I checked them out.
The AW quote first – it was reported word for word – but the date was crucial to understand why it was said – that date being December 29th 2015, the same day that these other quotes were produced with regards to Ozil’s performance:
*Sky Sports announced that “Ozil has created more clear-cut chances than the entire Chelsea team put together –”
*Mirror reporter John Cross professed his belief that Ozil is currently the best player in England’s top flight…his actual quote? *Right now, I don’t think there’s a better player than Ozil in the premier league. Aguero, Hazard heavy weight contenders, Vardy and Mahrez in good form –
*During this season we won our second major trophy in over a decade.
So, you see, there were many observers giving their positive opinions about Ozil and who better to compare him with, other than our greatest player Dennis Bergkamp?
Why not? It isn’t being disrespectful in any way – Our greatest ever player and a world cup winner, what is wrong with that? Both players knew and talked about/to each other and Ozil said he “is flattered” by the comparisons (Source: Onefootball-Dan Burke-16/9/2018)
Just below AW’s quote and also along with the fact that we had just returned to the top of the premiership, after the German international inspired us to a 2-0 win over Bournemouth, scoring one himself and setting up the other for Gabriel Paulista. (Source: Daily Mail 28/12/2016.), was the following breakdown:
As at the 15th June 2019, here is the list of our top 5 “assists” players:
1. Henry = 80 – 2. Fabregas = 71 – 3. Ozil = 53 – 4. Bergkamp = 49 – 5. Ramsey = 48…so even more understanding as to why DB/MO were being compared with each other AT THAT TIME).
NB. Just for the record, DB’s best season for assists, was the 1998/99 season, with a total of 13, while MO’s was in the 2015/16 season with a total of 19…six more than the Dutch Master himself!!!!!!
I won’t go into Pires quote, except to say it was not the full quote, it was made in 2019 and when UE was in charge…the coach who didn’t seem to have a clue about any of our players, let alone Ozil – one minute in the team and winning five games in a row, the next out of the squad, the next made captain, the next out then in again. The quote was all within the context of the situation at that time, but not included, why?
As for M01, (the only JA example from 2015 to date) the very fact that someone had to go back to 2015, in order to find one person on JA who had compared MO to DB, surely says it all?
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However, what I did find was someone who, not only compared DB to MO, but actually stated he was better than the Dutch Master!
But who makes such an outlandish claim against a player labelled with words such as ‘Dross – Mentally Frail – A thief – A fraud – the biggest transfer mistake in our clubs history – contributes nothing to the team – was not even needed’ etc etc etc by some Arsenal fans?
I suggest this person should become the president of the Ozil fanboy brigade– so let’s all think of him whenever an Ozil article appears. Here’s the quote in full and word for word as it was intended to be read:
“I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE COMPARE US TWO. HE ALSO PLAYS WITH THE SAME FREEDOM ON THE PITCH AS I REMEMBER DOING. I WILL GO AS FAR AS SAYING… HE HAS NOW SURPASSED ME.”
by DENNIS BERGKAMP.
Yes ozziegunner, I totally agree, DB had many memorable traits, modesty, honesty, respect of others, wisdom regarding the game of football and those who play it, are just some of them, as we have acknowledged many times – DB is/was in a world of his own, a true Arsenal legend.
Overall though, my personal thoughts are that, if only we had fans who gave a more balanced overview of the time MO has been at our club. If fans recognised the personal issues he has faced over the last two years and admit they would have done exactly the same when the club offered him that reported grotesque salary, there might be a middle road where we could all discuss the pros and cons in a constructive and civil manner.
But just as in the case of AW, that is not allowed – You are either put in a ‘for’ or ‘against’ camp and that is absurd.
There is no doubt that MO is not the player he was before the new contract was signed, but, yet again, has anyone actually said he is, or that he is worth the reported £350,000 a week?
Not to my knowledge, but I suppose someone might want to go back over five years ago, just to prove I’m wrong.
These type of fans will always find someone to criticise, be it Iwobi, Walcott, Ramsey, Giroud etc…at the moment it’s Ozil…look out Pepe, your being set up for this honour!!!
They are no different to the fans on AFTV, who they profess shock and horror at when they use foul language…never seen any of the AFTV guys call MO mentally frail or a thief for example. A different use of words, but the same end result, simply the pot calling the kettle black.
Thank goodness there are other JA fans (I can name them of course) who just will not put up with this kind of abuse of ANY Arsenal player.
This IS NOT a defence of MO, rather an attack on those who slander him and his time at the club, with verbal abuse and unsubstantiated claims – but, as usual, I will be called part of the Ozil fanboy club…..however, now Dennis is the president, I feel quite proud!!!
ken1945
NB. I have deliberately left out the date of the quote from THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER TO WEAR OUR SHIRT (in my opinion) as I thought those who denigrate one of our current players with such regular abuse, might want to find out themselves – it might surprise you.
Ridicolous to compaire!!! Bergkamps football was art. Most of his – many – goals was “goal of the month or year”!
ozil is not even worthy to shine the iceman’s boots.
Probably the biggest insult you could ever give anyone in this life. BERGY was the master and was 4 divisions above Ozil. Comparisons are laughable.
Ken, thank you for taking so much time and effort for writing this article on a useless player, however
1. A myth that we dislike/hate Ozil; it is the opposite, I do like the chap for his humanitarian works and am proud of that, his fan club gets this wrong every time.
2. I dislike is his attitude, body language and work ethics on the pitch. So criticism cannot be accepted by his fan club?
3. We talk of 2017 onward, the stats, the involvement, his fan club keeps repeating 2015.Why? All other excuses dried up?Giroud, Iwobi, winter break,……?
4. Who cares for his salary if he is turning around the games, gelling his colleagues with leadership and winning us games? His fan club keeps blaming the club for giving his wages, does nothing to realize that their man he has to earn them!
5. What has the fan club to say when he verbally abused Emery at Baku, walked off when we were trailing, ranted at Freddie, etc? Is this the respect we give our head coaches on the pitch? Was this our culture? Three head coaches cannot be wrong, neither was Joachim Lowe.
We an write more about this player than all episodes of Coronation street!
Enough of this player, just want him do either of the three
wake up, smell the coffee, pull up his socks, lace his boots and win us matches or
get himself transferred out of the club or
train himself with the under 9s or 10s or lower until he realizes he has to to do any one of the above.
Loose Cannon, thank you, my thoughts exactly. I thought Ozil got given a rough deal in his treatment after the World Cup by the German management and media. I expected him to knuckle down and perform for Arsenal to prove the critics wrong. Unfortunately he let himself and me down and for me the Europa League Cup Final in Baku was the last straw.
Thus in answer to Ken, comparison of Ozil to Bergkamp over their two careers at Arsenal is an insult to the “Iceman”.
ozziegunner, there is no insult whatsoever, in my view, when Dennis has compared himself to Mesut – unless you think Dennis doesn’t have the right to give his personal opinion.
I have followed up on the comparisions and to date, not one Gooner has agreed with Dennis, skysports, the Mirror or anyone else who discussed it – but it wasn’t discussed to be an insult was it?
It was a viewpoint held by some professionals, that we, as a near 100% fanbase disagree with completely – that is why I challenged Loose Cannon and asked for proof…he still hasn’t supplied one name – so why accept false claims in order to blacken another person?
I suspect that, in actual fact, amongst the Gooner family, DB would be the only one who thinks this way…and you know that our opinions differ not one iota from earlier conversations about Dennis.
Give me him over Mesut (or any other Arsenal player I have ever watched) any day of the week…but that’s not the point is it?
I am surprised that you cannot see what the “actual” point of this is all about though ozziegunner – it’s the false allegations, the outright lies and the complete disregard for facts.
Of course, we all have our views, but when someone makes a statement that isn’t true, shouldn’t we examine it and prove it wrong if that is the case?
Everyone assumes that because I challenge these falsehoods, I see no wrong in MO, that is, once again, not true – but because we are pigeon holed as being for or against, the conversations become toxic…just as it was with AW, Iwobi etc etc
Loose Cannon, perhaps if you didn’t make such farcical statements, the discussion on JA regarding Ozil, might be more informative.
Not only have you not supplied any proof that “some fans” were comparing MO with DB, we also this this little beauty:
Wenger only gave him a new contract, because he couldn’t be bothered to train someone else for that position.
Then you say to me, why am I going back to 2015, but declare how right you were when someone else had to go back that far to find a post that did actually compare the two.
I am of the opinion that, as I support Mikel Arteta 100%, whatever he decides to do with his players is fine by me.
If he decides MO is no longer in his plans…then bye bye Mesut Ozil…but you never seem to want to answer the question I have put to you before – if MA decides he wants Ozil back in the team, would you support him 100%.
The thing you can’t seem to grasp, is that while false claims and outright lies are made about anyone (let alone an Arsenal player), such as thief, mentally frail etc etc it should always be challenged.
Do I think MO was anywhere near DB? Never in a million years
Do I think MO is worth HALF of what he gets in salary? No.
Do I think MO has helped himself with the fans? No.
Do I think MO is in Arteta’s plans for next season? No.
Do I think MO should be lied about and abused? No.
Do I think MO should be defended regarding those lies and abuse? Yes, of course I do and the saddest thing of all, is that you don’t get it!!!
Ken, I have mentioned several times that the criticism of the player is professional nothing personal as i mentioned above. If you read my final comment i have no issues if he is on the pitch winning us matches. I applaud the starting 11 and the coach as they take to the ground, criticism is post match. And criticism is not abuse. Dont mix both!Someone who takes his wages without meeting his key results is normally sacked or fired from his job and Ozil should be no different. Someone who takes wages with intentional non performance is a traitor or a fraud, hope you agree with this in general.
So why make false statements?
Calling someone a thief, dross or mentally frail is not abuse?
So criticism by you is only at the end of the game? Please equate that with your claim that fans were comparing MO to DB, or that he was only offered a new contract because AW couldn’t be bothered?
As for earning his salary, once again you make a claim that cannot be proven – he intentionally goes out with a non performance intent!#?!#?!
Think about what you have just said and then ask yourself Why would he do that? What would he achieve?
Pleased to see that you would support MA if he does decide to bring Ozil back, at least I think that’s what your saying… perhaps through gritted teeth?
The ozil fans going on about “It’s not his fault that the club agreed to pay him £350,000 a week”.
Isn’t this what employers should do for their employees? Looks after them. Isn’t it.
So once your employer shows you such appreciation (£350,000 a week). What does an honest employee do? You work your shocks off to also show the same appreciation back. Isn’t it?
This reminds me of a builder. You offer them a job, pay them a good fee in advance in good faith hoping they will replicate the same favour back. The job should take about 3 weeks. But the moment you hand over the money they start acting up. Don’t answer your calls, come in whenever they feel like. They keep doing a half baked work. Start disrespecting you etc.
But then your friends keep saying to you “Whose fault was it? That builder did not force you to offer them that job and pay them such a generous fee in advance.
Wouldn’t that leave such a bitter taste in your mouth?
So it’s Arsenals fault for Ozil and his agent asking for £350,000 a week but then Ozil refusing to reciprocate th same favour back?
It’s really amazing the amount of mental gymnastics the Ozil fans will do just to cover for ozil on a daily basis. No limits when it comes to protecting ozil.
😆
Very good comparison for those having difficulty in understanding the Ozil scenario. BTW it was never his fault as per them. Now that they are exposed, they rake up 2015 season some 19 assists wake up he finished the 19/20 season with 2 assists.Shouldn’t we question the commitment? If Luiz can be questioned why not Ozil? Can they answer this?
No, Loose Cannon, once again you are purporting “Ozil fans” racked up 2015 – it was someone who was trying to prove your statement that fans were comparing MO to DB… something you pronounced to your “friends” as proving your point – therein lies the issue.. twisting what was said and done.
Mesut Ozil is far more superior than D.B
Sorry Moses, not in a million years….just my personal opinion of course.
Loose Cannon, I’ve just noticed your point number five:
What did he say, when he verballly abused Unai Emery?
What were the rants he aimed at FL?
Our culture? Like fans abusing players and managers/coaches on and off the pitch, making up lies etc etc? So fans can do/say/act in whatever way they want, but when a player reacts, that is against our culture? Double standards my friend, double standards.
Inspiring article, it gives perspective. Feels like those who comment above didnt concern with the whole piece or think about it for a moment. I also wish Ozil hadnt “sign da ting” for the ridiculous amount of money. He failed to evolve as a player at the same time, he failed against the big teams. Right now I just want him out of the club. But the failure of his current salary isnt his failure. He (his agent) just used the opportunity. And his contribution and brilliant moments during the first years shouldnt be completely forgotten. At that time he simply was at another level, than the rest of our squad.
I feel his time is up now at the club , he’s been missing since lockdown and results would not have changed if he had played or not .
Probably best if he was to move on which would be the best for all party’s involved .
No doubt we are going to hear more abuse from the Realists on here (or should I say know it alls )about how much wages he’s earns ,he’s a shirt seller ,54 assists in 184 games etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .but it’s all been said before so it doesn’t really have the same effect it did the first 20 times or so .
Good read but time to move on .
“and results would not have changed if he had played or not.”
How do you know that?
“No doubt we are going to hear more abuse from the Realists on here (or should I say know it alls )about how much wages he’s earns ,he’s a shirt seller ,54 assists in 184 games etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .but it’s all been said before so it doesn’t really have the same effect it did the first 20 times or so.”
So you want them to say what you want to hear and not facts.
“I feel his time is up now at the club”
This has also been said countless times so it doesn’t have effect either.
When you call people who don’t agree with your opinions know it all the vice versa is true.
Highbury Hero👍
I was quoting you. If there is any other way of quoting on this site please enlighten me.
Oh seems my reply got lost in the post 🤔
I think and again before people start abusing and calling this out for no reason , it is my opinion that if ozil was still on 140,000-170000 a week with us, the love would have been the same… Dennis bergkamp is one of my all time favourite players , but he played in a team where he had viera/gilberto/petit/edu behind him and terrific wingers in pires/ljungberg , and our greatest striker henry alongside him , not to forget probably one of the best substitute options for attack in Kanu / and a very decent one in wiltord ,, and that team had stayed together for about 5 years … the combination plays, the lovely telepathic connection, and to top it off , some sublime pieces of art from bergkamp himself….
Ozil as far as im concerned is still the best technical player we have and still the best creative player we have on our hand… in his best season for assists as you quoted, he had already reached 16 assists in december and 18 assists by Feb… he would have easily smashed the record for assists if we had someone like henry/PEA/VP in our squad, but we did not have money to spend on a striker at that time… Giroud although is an awesome striker and i absolutely love his game but he has never been as prolific as henry/pea/van persie … So there you have it , it all comes down to the quality in the squad,,, you dont put it on 1 player alone , because it is a game of 11 players….
Ozil has lost his touch a bit there is no doubt , but the amount of disrespect since he had been targeted by German media/federation and later by the Chinese for speaking against them.. has been pathetic
again, there is no need for comparison , dennis bergkamp will always go down as the greater player since he won more trophies than ozil, but ozil deserves respect as well…
Plus i bet he is being pushed out of the team by the management because the great ivan gazidis saved his arse by offering ozil an absurd amount of money which isnt correct in anyway,, and the current management wants to bring some sanity back to the structure which on their part isnt wrong,.,,the final nail in the coffin was the refusal to accept 12% PAYCUT, which the rest of the squad did…
Bergkamp transformed Arsenal for the better. He made the players around him better. No one ever said he could not perform because of the players around him.
Bergkamp is my all time favorite. However he played in vastly superior Arsenal teams than Ozil (and Sanchez). At his peak Ozil was perhaps almost as talented as Bergy, but he lacked that mean streak that Bergy had. Remember that CR7 was not happy when Ozil was sold. I would trust CR7’s assessment of a player’s ability over that of fans!
So Ronaldo wanting his teammate to stay means what?
So when he wanted Ozil to stay what happened after? Did Ronaldo go on strike. Did Ronaldo’s scoring decrease? Did Madrid decline because superstar ozil was gotten rid of
You can pick and choose quotes from players / managers that praise ozil. But I hope you also accept the ones from managers and players that criticise him.
Argements from Authority or popularity means nothing. It’s fallacious. What matters is what we see on the pitch.
Isn’t it?
Yeah, that narrative is always brought up, but the next season Real Madrid won UCL. Ronaldo did not miss Ozil. Ronaldo has played with tons of top players throughout his entire career and has remained the best in the world w/ Messi no matter where he goes. Ronaldo never NEEDED any type of player to succeed he has always adapted to every change. Nobody has ever said Ozil isn’t talented, it’s his commitment and unwillingness to work that has always been the problem. There are still people who deny this even as Ozil sits and earns money for doing nothing. That is not the sign of a player that puts his football first.
Goonster, has anybody named in this discussion “gone on strike?”
What was the point you were trying to make?
How come he never got anywhere near 19 assists in a season when he was at Madrid?
Didn’t he have one of the most prolific goals scorers in football history? C.Ronaldo.
Ozil has Bezema an Higuain too. But how come he never hit 19 asists or more?
May be Giroud made all these freekicks, Corners and crosses count hence why the 19 assist seasons was a one off and padded?
Stop blaming Giroud. It’s with Giroud that ozil has ever reached 19 assists in a season ever. Couldn’t do it with Ronaldo, Higuain, Benzema at Madrid.
Can’t do it with Aubameyang.
Did you know that Ozil has has only ever made more than 10 assists in an EPL season once in his Arsenal career? His ceiling is about 8 assists a season. And has hardly even made more than 5 assists for the last 3 or so seasons.
Ozil had a fluke 2015/16 half season where he made 19 assists. Has never come anywhere near that ever since.
Until the ozil fans can accept that he has to start taking personal responsibility for his own performances, flaws and actions then we will keep having back and forth.
I refuse to buy these tired excuses about its Girouds fault. It’s Iwobi’s fault, it everyone and every other things fault for why Ozil has been an underwhelming signing for us. It’s never his fault.
very good points of Ronaldo and Benzema.We never ever discussed that.Thanks Goonster this brings a new element to the debate.What will be the fan club apology?
Didn’t Ronaldo say he was really upset with the board when we bought him?
The answer is staring the questionare in the face as he names the players at Madrid.
They were all world class players, just like The INVINCIBLES.
That’s why Ozils best assist season was better than Bergkamp’s – nothing to do with individual talent… of which Dennis had so much more of course.
Frankly, my view is that our Invincible team was so much better than the Madrid team that Ozil left, how we never won the CL Cup is a complete mystery.
You see, if we discuss and are able to give our views, without being labelled as this or that, the debate becomes so much more interesting and non abusive.
Regardless of how good ozil fans think he is, he’s not on Bergkamp level,he’s not even on the level below him. This is the highest insult anyone can receive in there life, comparing DB with MO🙄.
Lenohappy, if you were called a thief, dross, mentally frail, a fraud, useless and lazy, never wanted at the club, bug eyed and all the other insults that it seems fans think they can make with impunity would you not say that these are the greatest insult you could ever have in your life?
What seems to be forgotten, is that Mesut Ozil is a human being who is being verbally abused by some Arsenal fans – isn’t it time we looked at that as an insult of the highest degree?
Comparing MO with DB comes nowhere near it – we all know, except Dennis it seems, that DB has been the greatest player in our lifetime of watching the club we both support.
Ken To answer your earlier post; yes OZIL has been on effective strike for several seasons. Only you and a few other, fast dying out, wilfully blind, diehards cannot or refuse to see that. That you should even pen a subject that asks the title question shows me what a different planet you inhabit from me and those many Gooners who CAN SEE PROPERLY. You yourself have called Bergkamp our greatest ever player and most of us place him first or second behind Henry. So to even try comparing idle OZIL TO OUR GREATEST EVER PLAYER IS BONKERS AND RATHER SAD FOR A MAN OF YOUR BRAIN.
Jon, for a man of your intelligence, I really do wish you would digest what the article was about.
I didn’t compare Ozil to Bergkamp and, at the moment, only one person has been found to do this…back in 2015!!!
It was Loose Cannon who alleged this was the case and I asked him for proof – this article follows on from that allegation.
As one of those who loathes this mentally frail, dross , lazy and blood sucking player, I was hoping you might see what the article was trying to do in regards to abuse – it seems that you just cannot stop yourself though, as you have just done the same thing with me.
Sorry Jon, I hav no time for someone who can’t read a post properly and then tries to beliitle the author.
As for going on strike Jon, if UE and MA decide not to select him, how on earth can you say he is going on strike?
The definition of “strike action” is holding back ones labour in protest – Mesut Ozil has always made himself available when fit, as Mikel Arteta has made clear he is.
Please get your facts right Jon, I know you don’t like the man, but making up things does you no good whatsoever.
First I would like to congratulate you on a great piece you have written.
Ozil is great player, a great talent, a good man, a megastar and a brand. A person whose opinions shake big governments. He is not past it as others say but in my opinion a lot of things have happened outside the pitch and in his personal life that have impacted his work on the pitch.
If he manage to sort them out and put his mind to it he has few years left in him to give masterful displays as he did before. Lets not forget that he was the one to give us a trophy after years of failing.
Before that we couldn’t even manage to win a Carling Cup!
Now myself I think comparing players is a waste of time as every player is different from the others. We can compare achievements but there are a lot of factors involved in that as well.
Dennis Bergkamp was not a footballer but a magician artist. What he produced on the pitch was pure magic, artistry of the highest order, bewitching and captivating beauty never before seen and will not be seen ever again.
Firstly, love the article!
Secondly Gunner1578 that is what i’ve been saying for years!
I’m not an Ozil fan boy or anything like that but i can appreciate what he is good at and what he’s not, as with any perosn in the world we all have strengths and weaknesses.
If you look at the players Ozil had around him with Germany and Madrid, like Khadira etc, just big Sami alone allowed Ozil to play his game.
When Ozil came to us we didnt have a player of Khadira’s calibre but we had Arteta who did work hard back there to allow Ozil some freedom, then we switched Santi to a more holding role with ramsey alongside hime, which again added work rate to compensate for Ozil and again allow him freedom, plus we had Alexis who was a hard working player.
We havent had that type of quality in MF to allow Ozil to be effective, and its been getting worse every season, plus our goals from MF have dried up along with Oxils assists, but his chances created havent, he’s barely played this season and still joint with pepe for chances created.
most ppl on here have blinkers on and let other ppls opinions get to them and then they in turn run with it, yes you may hate the guy for this reason or that but at the end of the day Ozil hasnt had teh support on the pitch to allow him to play his game for YEARS!
Highbury Hero, I wished Ozil the “good man” didn’t have the despicable Erdogan as a friend.
I don’t see that friendship affecting anyone. I think the fact that part of his salary goes on to feed the less fortunate speaks more than his friendship with that president.
Talk to the Kurds!
Or the opposition members and journalists gaoled around the country of Turkey.
With all due respect Ozziegunner how is Mesut friendship with that president got anything to do with it?
Since when did Ozil give us our first trophy after many years of failing?
Can you please provide any evidence to back up your bold claim?
Arsenal have not won any trophy in 9 years since 2004. Arsenal sign Ozil in 2013-14. Arsenal win the FA Cup to end the trophy draught in the same season.
18 million for one goal. Fraud! That is enough to separate chalk and cheese. The writer should get a reality check done or maybe there is some incentive for the highest number of comments.
HH what was Ozil’s contribution? The goals in 2014 FA finals came from Santi Carzola, Kosceilny and Aaron Ramsey. I consider the Giroud pass/assist and Ramsey goal as the gift Giroud/Ramsey gave to all fans. As usual Ozil was a spectator not even a player in that match.
Reality check? Just read what our greatest ever player, Dennis Bergkamp said about Mesut Ozil…that’s the reality check you need to grasp and try to hold on to – unless you think Dennis is not capable of knowing what makes a top class footballer.
So your one of the cynics who think we play with ten men whenever Ozil is selected? So why did we create nothing against Villa, have no shots on goal and nearly lose to Watford?
As usual, you miss the point of the article in your rush to tell me how bad Ozil has always been.
It was claimed thatsome fans were comparing Dennis to Mesut with no proof, unless you count one identified back in 2015.
Unlike you, I went back and checked that claim and discovered that, apart from just this one person, there were professionals who did compare him, including Dennis himself.
Now I know who I would believe to have the more knowledge regarding how to judge MO as a footballer and you aren’t it.
Please don’t reply, as I wouldn’t want you to add to the comments made…just another ridiculous statement that makes you look so juvenile.
There are Ozil fans may be not on this forum but on other Arsenal forums and other platforms that have been comparinf Ozil to Bergkamp for many season.
It went crazy in the 2015/16 season. They were making ozil vs Bergkamp comparison even before 2015/16 season.
I thought this comparison from his fans has been a very constant thing since Ozil moved here.
It didn’t he get 19 assists that season ?
Look at everyone on here go on about KDB now he as just got 20 ,is it not weird how fans cream over other clubs players but when one of ours does the exact same thing here was no where near as good .
Look at KDB overall play. And Look at his quality of assists and compare them to Ozil in 2015/16.
Big massive difference.
On top of that KDB even scores many goals on top. He runs City’s games, dominant most of the time.
Ozil is talented but very one dimensional. Hence why he has not convinced a lot of people in the 6 seasons he has been here.
Goonster, well then, do what Loose Cannon can’t seem to do and name names.
Give us the proof that fans were, not only comparing the two players, but saying Ozil was better.
2015 is the record for trolling back in order to find someone, but there must be some before and after – so many it seems, it won’t be difficult to find.
Remember this happened on the JA site, so I there will surely be names from here…especially as there is supposedly an “Ozil fanboy club” …over to you!!!
Goonster, you want me to believe that all the fans who compared Ozil to Bergkamp, are on every site bar “JustArsenal”?
By all accounts, we have a Ozil fanclub on here, sodoesn’t that strike you as a little odd?
Hahaha Ken! DB said something about MO in 2015, has he said anything about the 2020 performance of MO?DB is a loved hero by all, and was a consistent performer not a fluke one season wonder or a one goal this season wonder! 18 million for one goal. Fraud!
Are you sure it was 2015?
So, instead of asking me, why not check out yourself?
As the initial post from someone (not me) who quoted 2015 in order to find a JA post that did compare the two, don’t blame me – I just responded accordingly, looked a little deeper and found the quote by Dennis.
What date was it you said he made it, have you checked?
Good on you Ken being brave mate as it’s sad that we have become a fan base where a fan gets this treatment for defending one of his own players ( inspired an article in fact )
The reality is if it wasn’t his salary he be playing right now
Before Lockdown Arsenal were unbeaten in prem in 2020, it was our only winning sequence
Ozil played every game
Post lockdown , We drop Ozil ( convenient timing after he refused a wage cut ) and guess what , we lost our next two games
So no one else is doing better yet we have to just accept a coach refusing to get the best out of him just because Stan regrets offering him a contract?
I watched some player reviews online
Ozil was getting a 0 ,while a Ceballos was getting a 6?
Reiss Nelson was a 4 ?
How’s that not having an agenda
Has Ceballos 6 points better then Ozil ?
If Ozil 0;, so should whole midfield
Good for you Ken mate
If I am right you are the Dan who writes lots of interesting articles for JA?
I would be fascinated to know as you seem to suggest, if Ozil has been deliberately cold shouldered by the club but more particularly by Arteta who picks the team
I have been disappointed in Ozil for accepting his current situation. Announcing you are ready but not getting a bench seat should by now have sent alarm bells ringing to him. I’m not going to argue the talent/fraud stuff. That’s for other people. For me, I am just surprised that he is accepting of his situation.
There are those who describe him as a leech and others who think he is being castigated for not taking a pay cut.
Is there anyone out there who absolutely knows that he is sidelined deliberately?
SueP, as he is under contract by the club, who hold his registration of course, both parties are bound by said contract.
MO has declared himself fit and ready to play, MA decides he is not going to select him – as he has done with Guendouzi, what do you expect him to do?
Are you suggesting he should create a fuss, go public with his frustrations, question MA’s decision?
Imagine what the outcome of any of those scenarios would be for the player.
Well ken
You answered my post to Dan but you actually didn’t tell me anything that felt relevant
I asked what the truth of Dan’s assumptions were
Is there a conspiracy against Ozil
Not interested in Arteta playing him or not. Is there an agenda from the hierarchy to deliberately cold shoulder Ozil?
SueP, you mentioned being disappointed with him when he wasn’t getting on the bench and accepting the current situation.
I asked, in so many words, what you think he should do about the situation…what would you do?
I didn’t answer your question directed at Dan, that’s for him to reply.
The fact the question was even asked, is quite insulting! All Ozil ever did was prove his critics right.
But not in the eye of Dennis Bergkamp it seems TMJW.
Ken
I’m trying to respond to your reply to me above
Personally I think Ozil should consider his future if he is not getting game time. What is the point of being ready but staying on the sidelines? If he wants to play football- which I assume he does- then he should be asking his agent to put out the feelers for a new club. It must be soul destroying otherwise. Sokratis seems to be at present the next one seeing out a contract. It is their choice of course but the wages of both men could free up much needed revenue to invest in the squad. I think that is what makes so many respondents disgruntled.
I’m sorry Dan didn’t respond as I think that sidelining a player for refusing a pay cut smacks of conspiracy theory
I now know that this has gone beyond Rating or not Rating Ozil.
It has become a PERSONAL PRIDE kind of debate. Some Arsenal fans have convinced themselves for a long time that Ozil is some special player. But Ozil has just kept letting them down with his underwhelming time at Arsenal. Had a lot of hope for him but that has not manifested.
Now they just are in denial. Can’t accept that they were wrong about him and Ozil himself keeps letting them down season after season.
The hardest thing for a person to do is holding your hands up and accepting that your belief about a certain thing has been proven to not be what you thought it should be. You will try to hold onto anything, self denial. But th elephant will always remain in the room. You can do all the self denial but that will not change the real issue.
In this case Ozil has been exposed as an underwhelming player at Arsenal but his fans that have been by his side since 2010 when he burst onto the scene can’t accept that. “No no no, I cannot be wrong. He has been amazing but poor teammates, poor formations, poor managers, biased media, Arsenal fans that know nothing about football, the weather, the very blood and thunder EPL, the racist German population etc. Look he is even being compared to the likes of Bergkamp. Many former players and managers seem to also rate. This comfirms my own bias”.
It reminds me of when I used to be one of the AKB’s (Wenger Knows Best crew). I made up all kinds of excuses as to why Wenger had become a stagnant manager. “But but he has to deal with the Stadium debts. All these Sugar daddy clubs. All these players abandoning our team every season. He misses David dein. The injuries. At least he plays the most attractive football in the EPL. He won us 3 EPL titles. He can do it again etc.”
But the time came when I had to be honest to myself. I had to stop being in denial about him reinventing himself and becoming a modern manager. I had to accept that he was finished as a hungry title challenging manager. He was never going to adapt.
I feel like this is the same situation with the Ozil fans right now.. Can’t bring themselves to accept that Ozil did not reach the heights they hoped for. Ozil failed to adapt his game to the modern times.
Saying I was wrong is the toughest thing do.
That’s how I feel about the whole thing.
Nice analogy with AKB Goonster. I think you just defined “cognitive dissonance” in a way all Gooners should be able to understand.
In 10 years time Denis will still be our most important player of all time. The player who changed a club and did things that we never thought we’d see. What will we remember ozil for in ten years apart from being lazy and robbing our club of a wages. Good player on his day but does day are few and far between. Give me rocky, Freddie, ray parlour any day of the week. They gave everything they had for this club and are loved by all because we saw they gave everything
Özil is a super great world-class player. He’s a team player and in my opinion except Alexis, Cazorla, and Rambo, we haven’t had the players capable of playing with him. The record for assists has reportedly been broken every year. His salary has been discussed and accepted by the club and should not be a yardstick. The comparison between DB and MO is in my opinion impossible because not under the same conditions. DB had the best players our club has seen as the last period of MO was marked by decline and instability in our club. Comparing Özil de Madrid and our Bergkamp would perhaps be more reasonable, and here I think the answer is unequivocal in terms of statistics. The Winner is ……
Best comment for this article.
How long have you been watching and following football?
You haven’t obviously seen the title winning Arsenal teams under Bertie Mee, George Graham and Arsene Wenger to see great Arsenal players, who fought for the badge.
Dennis would never sit on a bench and let his career rot away just to earn some more money and drain Arsenal. Ozil will not be remembered fondly after he leaves.Even Ramsey will be remembered more for his FA Cup winners.
Ozil has only broken 10 EPL assists in a season ONCE. TAA and Robertson have already surpassed him.
RSH, just to remind you, Ozil has stated he is fit and ready to play, just as he did when UE dropped him.
Now, I’m not questioning MA’s decision, I back him 100%, but to say he’s happy to sit on the bench is incorrect isn’t it and remember he hasn’t been in the squad, so sitting on the bench is also wrong.
Absolutely agree that DB would never sit on the bench and let his career rot away, has anyone ever said he would?
Ken, he is clearly not wanted at the club and is going to stick out his contract. That to me, shows he is fine sticking with sitting on the bench making money. If he moves this summer, my mind will change, but all signs show that he is fine with sitting on his contract. Which he has a right to do, but he should not be shocked if fans judge him for it.
RSH, why would he then come out and say he is ready to play?
Remember that Mikel has also said he is fit and available for selection – he just isn’t in his plans.
That is where fans who judge him for “not wanting to play” are wrong.
Ken, because he is surrounded by PR experts. Actions speak louder than words.
ozziegunner, so what action should he take?
Dear Ken,
Fine I will answer you. Simple..he should knuckle down and work hard in training to convince his current or for that matter his previous coaches he deserves to play. This method worked too Ken…I have seen it work for Giroud and many other top players who was initially not favored by their coaches but managed to force their way into the team and becomes undroppable simply by performing.
Just because someone declare himself ready to play. .does not mean he automatically deserves to play. A Ronaldo or Messi can walk into the team whenever they say they are ready to play becoz we know absolutely what they can do. With Ozil, I can safely say that even his most ardent fans will admit that they
are not sure which Ozil will turn up today…
And the sad thing is…that is the one
consistent thing i can say about Ozil especially in recent years.
Well, he has knuckled down, according to MA, who said he has now regained full fitness and is available for selection – he turns up for training has never broken club rules and is, unlike Guendozi, training with the first team squad.
Well he has to convince the coach and for that matter his team mates that he deserves to play.. Arteta also did say that….. Full fitness foes not mean he deserves to play…I think many players in Arsenal now are fit and ready to play and let’s be honest here Ken, we are talking about Ozil..not a Ronaldo, Messi or even a De Bruyne. We cannot go about accusing people of having an agenda against Ozil when Arteta,the team and everybody associated with the club including the Board clearly want and need this win tonight.
Well therefore Ken…..borrowing from one of AW favourite lines, I feel in this case one has to ask the right question. The question is how sure are we that having Ozil in the team tonight will influence a positive result…For me I am not…and therefore i really dont care if he is out there or not tonight.
RSH, I would do the same if I was in his shoe. People forget this guy is a human being. Do you think all those demoralizing words constantly sad about him on daily basis won’t have effect on him. Everywhere he turns Ozil this and Ozil that. Is like people are out to ruining this guy. Till now the identity of the other two players who refused pay cut is unknown. Ozil did what more than 98% of epl did and no one blink an eye. Rooney blatantly refuse pay cut and he was defended buy so many in the media. He simply has a target on his back and the club is not defending him. He is not the first player that will seat on the bench and wind down his contract. I remember vividly well that Malouda was banished to the reserve team at Chelsea for the reason I can’t remember now and he didn’t move away and he was at the time on 150k a week and nobody went mental about it. There is away out of this Ozil situation. The club should call him to a room,say sorry to him for what has happened and offer him half of his salary or more to continue his career elsewhere. I bet they cannot do that because whether he plays or not it seems the club get money back from him being our player.
Like comparing chalk n cheese, two completely different players.
DB is a false 9 plays well off the center forward shoulder
M10 is a traditional #10
At Ken 1945
It’s the same handful of people who are against Mesut daily. They act like politicians. They will crucify ozil while saying the team is weak, doesn’t move the football forward and lack real defenders. Fans just expect to win no matter what and someone will have to take the blame. I once said that arsenal signed ozil and never built the team to suit his style of play. When Sanchez saw that arsenal was a two man team he left.
Also the website (bergkampesque) not sure if the spelling is correct actually did a more detailed article months ago which is worth a read.
Jah son, sounds like a riot of a website!!!
Thanks, I will try and find it – knowledge is power my friend.
jah son, have found the site and there is a great picture of Dennis and Mesut together, smiling broadly and titled “Master and Apprentice?”…of course, Dennis being “The Master”.
I was also pleased to see that this article has been reproduced on the site dedicated to The Master himself…and there are a few other Ozil articles on the website as well.
So it seems that even a fanatical site (brilliant as well of course) didn’t seem to be insulted by this article – so pleased, as that was obviously not the intention right from the beginning.
Nor was it meant to be deliberately controversial, it was just trying to paint a portrait, expose a lie, highlight abuse and acknowledge the brilliance of The Master. Thanks Jah son for guiding me here.
🤜🤛 anytime.
There should be no comparisons here…DB was world class on a different level. Others round him upped their game and benefitted with DB in the team. Assists, goals and passion no competition here. Ozil was a good player not world class and since the £350k pay rise has been poor. One decent game in every 10 is not worth it.
Ken your love for Ozil is imminent.
I see the Next Ozil in Pepe..
Wacko!
So true
Wow! All I can add is that all those quotes “Ozil is etc,etc” should read “Ozil was etc,etc”
Another Ken1945’s Article. Great and worth reading. Based on facts, not just some opinion. Thank you Ken1945.
Some fans on here write their opinion as if they are World Class Football Player. But I believe what the real world class player like Denis Bergkamp said about M. Ozil.
Benjamin, thank you.
What is wrong with world is people just want quick fix, nobody really want to help and see the problem and never solution other than get rid of this or that and when they are in such situations they play victim. Anybody that can not see that Ozil has been damaged by constant negative criticism of him is inhuman. He got thrown to the wolves by German national team and our club did nothing to defend and support him and people expect him to work away from the contract Ivan foolishly given to him in other to safe face. We should all take responsibility as regards his contract because we all want club to show ambition by not losing him and Sanchez at the time. Thank goodness Manu has to deal with Alex issues because I cannot imagine having him with Ozil in this mess.
Ain’t it, Ken!!! Should’ve known though! 🙄
Well, I’m looking forward to that, for sure!! 👍
You can post in this Article again ?
Yes Dan kit, the posts involving Sue, you, Peter and myself got a little heated.
They were removed and it was opened again – I have replied to three posts so far and I hope others see it is back on board.
While both are undoubtedly talented, and among the best we’ve ever had. Can anyone remember Dennis being this inconsistent or frustrating? I didn’t think so
JAMES, I agree 100%with you…have you seen anybodyactually say the opposite?
I didn’t think so either – of course, it could easily be made up, jsut like the accusation that AW gave Ozil his new contract, simply because he didn’t want to coach anyone else….you couldn’t make it up – oh yes you can!!!!
Mesut Ozil was incredibly consistent from the time he emerged at Schalke till his Real Madrid days. That’s around 5-6 seasons with a league average of 15 assists each season along with goals. World-class numbers right there. The inevitable drop in production when he arrived in the PL could be down to so many reasons- the league being way more physical than Spanish or German Leagues, playing out of position on the right where he could not influence play, sometimes teammates not supporting him well etc etc. The 2015-16 season had everything in place for us to win the EPL and Mesut was in the best form of his life, but I guess we failed to both win a title and help him beat the assist record. After that, I guess it’s a case of lack of motivation, no pressure of international selection, inconsistency and finally early decline.
To ken1945- Great article Sir. It is thoroughly researched and factual, not opinionated or reactionary. Your articles on the site are always interesting and inspirational.
Than you Sid, factual evidence is what counts – opinions are just, opinions…and long may we have them.