Mikel Arteta is getting a lot of stick for Arsenal’s two defeats last week, but the fact remains that the Gunners are still sitting in the Top Six, and he has made that possible, despite having the youngest team in the Premier League and also the smallest squad to choose from.
But the boss has also made good on his promise to clear out all the non-performing deadwood and bring in a team of hungry, talented youngsters that he has taught how to follow his tactics and philosophy.
And to be honest, there were very few Arsenal fans that believed that Arteta would manage to get the Gunners into Europe with a completely new young team, so for us to be where we are right now is actually quite impressive to to be honest.
But to be fair to the Boss, after we saw our raft of new arrivals in the summer, he made it clear that we were only half-way through our rebuild. As Arteta told Arsenal.com: “Just to give you some context, we renewed – in one year – five sets of contracts, and five of them are under the age of 23 for the first team. Then, in this period, summer to summer, we signed 10 players and seven out of the 10 are under 23 as well.
“So what I would like to explain is that is is not about this summer, it is about the project. It is about what we want to do. We have started the project, we are in the middle, so it is not just one window and go, it is window, window, window, window.”
It certainly seems like he was talking sense, and he has already told us that Arsenal is expecting an extremely busy summer window as well, so if he has managed to get us into the Top Six while only half way through the job, how much more will he get done next season?
Sam P
Absolutely. Beginning in June 2021 and completed in May 2023. That is when we should judge this two season process. Top six at the half way point this May will be entirely satisfactory.
This summer .
Out.
Leno Runarrson Bellerin Cedric Mari Mavro Niles Elneny Torreira Xhaka Lacazette Nketiah Nelson.
Squad
Ramsdale Turner
Tomi RB* Tierney Tavarez
White Gabriel Salba* Holding
Partey DM* Lokonga
ESR Odegaard Pepe AM*
Martinelli Striker*
U21 Saka Balogun Biereth Lopez Patino
Next season top 4 is my expectation.
Had no idea Arteta got the job in June 2021
Hey FF, I support Arteta but he’s not started the job in June 21.
You can’t say “oh sorry the first 18 months don’t count because he’s changed his mind on the type of players he should get”.
In his first 18 months he got rid of quite a few players and bought Gabriel and Partey.
It does take time to re-build a successful team though. December 2022 will be 3 years since Arteta’s been appointed and its a big milestone as well.
Well he has till next season to deliver the champion league he promised since the process started.
And yeah since we have the youngest team in the league, we shouldn’t be dreaming of European competition at all. Even if the young team cost millions.
How about we go championship so we can have better competition there since our team is too young for the EPL. Are we not the youngest team in the league, we shouldn’t be seen with the big boys.
“Job well done?” What would that be?
We have no European football, falling out of 4th, and never finished higher than 8th.
All this while our checkbook manager spent £250 million, 150 million last Summer. Add some of the most unsightly football I’ve seen in decades.
Defense no better than when Luiz and Bellerin were here, check goals conceded. Loaned out youngsters, 2 of which playing CL football, but weren’t ready for Arsenal.
Gave away players for free, and amateurish January sees us promoting 5 youngsters when Guendouzi, Saliba, Mavro, Auba, and Nelson are elsewhere.
All while hoping to finish at least 6th and call it progress, while 2 previous managers got sacked for that; While still qualifying for Europa league at least!
No, not job well done, finish higher than 8th first. Get Arsenal back into European football, where they were when Arteta took over.
Credit where credit is due, but what has Arteta improved exactly in nearly 2 1/2 years?
“ Credit where credit is due, but what has Arteta improved exactly in nearly 2 1/2 years?”
Only thing I can think of is his own bank balance .
Definitely that.
Gotten rid of the rot. And started rebuilding.
Absolutely spot on…
100% agree with you…
I wonder How Wenger would have built the team if he would have be given 300 Million to spend in Market
I don’t understand the hypocrisy of some our Arsenal fans that we abused our most successful manager in history by flying aeroplanes before the match with banners of Wenger out who was delivering European football every year but we are happy to settle down for top six see as improvement now??
And and most important Wenger never got this much amount of budget… also his squad in his last 6-7 years of his tenure was far inferior than what we have…
Come on guys his team has finished in top 4 with midfield of Diaby, Denilson and Eboue…
And still faced so much abuse from our so called intellectual fans
@Kedar
It’s funny how those that overly criticize or want MA out, constantly talk about the money spent, and back-to-back 8th finishes, yet always turn a blind eye to the complete and utter mess he inherited.
Also, there’s barely a mention of how well the money has been spent. Almost all signings are great prospects, at good prices, and have been performing well on the whole, whilst the rare flops have cost us hardly anything.
Finally, claiming he’s responsible for two 8th place finishes is also completely out of context. MA took over mid season, when we were in absolutely shocking form.
I’m not saying MA is perfect, far from it, and we need to seriously judge him at the end of the season, but at least have some context of the state of the club when he took over and the fact he has the youngest squad in the league, with not a lot of experience.
Wenger never got that budget because he never wanted it, and the fact he squandered huge amounts of his budget on our insane wage bill (which MA has been trying to reduce) for average players, and consistently letting players leave on a free. He got have easily got around 150 million for Ozil and Alexis for reinvestment, and look what happened in reality!
And Wenger would have completely wasted 300 million if given, as we saw with our own eyes.
When he finally made a big signing (Ozil), it was a player that was either not even needed, or right at the bottom of the squad priorities. We already had Santi, plus another 5 or so attacking midfielders. We desperately needed a DM, CB, CF that summer, yet blew his entire budget on a luxury signing.
Plus huge money wasted on Mustafi, Xhaka etc
Jonbo do you seriously believe the money spent on White etc represents good value? Outside of Ramsdale I see six useful bit players but no major stars. Some of them are already in need of being replaced either because they are not good enough to propel the team forward unless your expectations are mid table ground hog day.
Last year Arteta finished 8th, and no European football for the first time in over 2 decades, who’s fault was that?
And that “mess he inherited” got him his only trophy (FA Cup) and helped him get Europa league football.
With his players and his clearout, he failed to get European football of any kind.
And after 250 million in investment, Arteta is going back to Krone’s wallet again?
Perhaps he should learn to coach up the talented youth we have, rather than window shop. 2 of the players he sent off this year played CL football, while we had no European games whatsoever.
No answers without a checkbook, and even then he can’t achieve the heights of 5th and 6th place that got 2 previous managers fired.
Different standards I guess,
I don’t mean to come across as going after any fellow supporter, but just trying to challenge the narrative that is being sold.
It seems like endless patience and excuses with virtually no accountability. The January window, loaning talented players we clearly could have used, and bench players woefully prepared to contribute when the team needs them.
At what point should he start being judged? At what point is it “not good enough?”
Wenger was clearly warned about the situation, and had to step down when it did not improve the following year. Emery faced the same situation, and was removed in December.
Nearly 2 1/2 years now, is this Summer fair to judge? The style of play is dire and unsightly, defense concedes goals as it did Luiz and Bellerin, and we still struggle to create and score goals going on 2 years now.
@Durand
“Endless patience”…really? One full season of 8th, and that’s too long for you? You must have been absolutely beside yourself during the Wenger years then.
We have progressed this season, and since the Chelsea win Boxing Day 2020, and may even get into the CL, a position NO ONE thought even remotely possible for this season.
The play has been awful to watch in the last two games, but Arsenal have been recently great to watch, and our attacking play has improved this season.
I agree, judge him at the end of season, but if you expecting a league challenge, or definite CL qualification to judge MA on, then you were already setting up unrealistic goals. I was very upset with our FA Cup performance, but apart from that, its fact that we have progressed.
Did the season start om boxing day? Tired of u lot using half statistics just to try and push your agenda. There’s Reality that we see with our eyes and the sight ain’t pretty, neither are the future projections. Period
The play has been awful for far more than the last 2 games. For 2 years we struggle to score from open play.
I just would like consistency in standards applied uniformly is all. Emery with a CV isn’t given final player decisions and half the transfer funds of Arteta.
I just expect a bit more when £250 million is spent on HIS players and HIS team. Emery was 9th when sacked, Arteta finished 8th.
His 1st full year finished 8th and out of European football. Wenger and Emery were fired for ONLY reaching Europa league.
Personally I didn’t think Arteta was the right hire. No experience, built nothing, managed nothing. Ten Hag has experience with all that, but was he even considered?
Think many many managers could build a team with £250 Million plus summer’s kitty, and no fear of being sacked for 2 1/2 years.
JonBo as you rightly said, Wenger spent hideous amounts on the wage bill. Along with Danny Fiszman they introduced their socialist wage structure where players like Denilson, who never won a thing, were earning £40k a week. Compare that to an international at Utd, Wes Brown, who won the PL and the CL and was on a basic wage of £25k a week.
Also in his last season Wenger spent over £100m and ended up 6th.
Great, so you have now got all of Wenger’s mistakes off your chest and he’s been gone for nigh on four years.
Are you now going to look at the same mistakes MA has made?
What about Aubameyang’s new contract at, reportedly, the same salary as Ozil?
MA gave that, despite the lesson he witnessed from the Ozil debacle…. then of course, he gave him away and the guy has scored 10 goals, while The Arsenal scored 12.
I’m surprised you claim Wenger spent anything in his last (two) season, as Gazidis and his three musketeers had taken over the responsibilities of signings, wages and contracts.
In fact it was the above four, who bought Aubameyang in the first place, along with seven others for UE’s first season.
Now, as far as I’m aware, from the official website, it is Arteta and Edu who control this side of the club’s business, is that correct?
MA brought in Willian on, reportedly, £200k a week and scored one goal, before being so disillusioned with the club, he left.
As mentioned, he sanctioned Aubameyang’s £300,000 plus salary.
He gave Xhaka a new contract with increased wages.
He has signed four of our five regular defensive players and has the record of losing 12 of his 47 home PL games.
Due to his lack of spending in the last transfer window, he has been forced to bring in five untried young players, as we try to wrestle back a top four place that was ours for the taking…. meanwhile, we have nearly half a team out on loan, some of whom, are playing in European competitions.
The top four finish, which Arsenal fans, some of them, so derided and poured scorn on, is now to be seen as a great achievement for MA?
I agree that his first 8th position should not be viewed as HIS failure…. but, likewise, winning the fa cup with the same players should also be viewed accordingly.
AW and UE are history, just as GG and BM, so why, after nearly three years in the job, are two of them brought into the conversation regarding MA?
The Arsenal of today bears no resemblance to AW or UE, either in style, tactics, personnel (back and front of the house), accountability or achievement.
As Wenger still seems to be the yardstick for comparison with MA, by you Jonbo and Herr Drier , then let’s not cherry pick either of their faults.
After spending over £250,000,000 since he became manager, I would expect more than what we saw against Palace and Brighton….. where was the passion and belief that we saw against the spuds, city and Chelsea?
He cannot deliver consistency, a requisite for any top club.
Having to bring in FIVE youngsters to fill a quota is unbelievable.
You know Jonbo is Thirdman right Ken ?
If he is DK, hiding behind another name says it all…. didn’t Herr Drier also say he was using a new identity?
It will be interesting to see if he answers my regression / progression question.
Yea it’s definitely Thirdman ,i sussed him out a few weeks backs.
I should know how with the amount of arguments he we had and how he types his posts .
Hair dryer I’m not sure about .
*I should know with the amount not arguments we had
I’m still waiting on his reply to regression and progression.
I really can’t understand ANYONE wanting to change their name…. unless of course they’ve been caught out so many times spreading lies…. so it could be TMJW I agree.
Like you, I don’t know about Herr Drier, but as he’s forgotten more about football than the rest of us know, perhaps he’s TMJW Mark 2.
Thirdman was banned that’s why he’s changed his name
Yea hair dryer gave me that same speech about forgetting more about football than I know 😂
Ken, I don’t spend all day on SM, I have other things to do. I changed my name as I hadn’t been on here for over 10 years. Whatever post is the truth as imho only weak people lie and I’m certainly not weak.
OK, so explain to me how you classify regression and progression, as it seems Jonbo or whoever he is, under AW and MA.
I’m sure I can list as many mistakes Wenger made as you can…. what I’m not sure about is whether your prepared to list the many mistakes Arteta has made and, surely, that is more relevant today?
Still trying to come to terms with Wenger/Dein and Arteta/Edu…. now that would be an interesting poll Pat!!!
Jumbo, or whoever he is, can’t explain his claim.
Sock it to them Ken.
I haven’t mentioned even half of Wengers mistakes in this thread. PEA record of goalscoring at the time warranted a pay rise, but with hindsight it was wrong. Shame no one could see into the future to tell if he was going to return to his old ways of breaking club rules to force a move. Seems that he’s happy now in Spain, I wonder how long that will last…
While Peanut Head and his “three musketeers” were indeed involved with the signings, wages and contracts, Wenger was still the main man. They only took total control AFTER Wenger got the bullet.
While the official website are correct on MA and EG and transfers they are like a government in only telling people what they want you to know, while sometimes spinning a story.
Regarding Xhaka, obviously the fee that Roma offered was to low, so he stayed and the signing of a new contract will probably result of any one wanting him will have to pay a decent fee.
Ah, the defensive record. Yes it’s not great, but new signings sometimes take a while to settle into a new partnerships, new tactics and a new country.
I’d rather see the club sign better players in the Summer than ones that might join in January, as clubs rarely let their better players leave half way through a season.
Considering the state of the club when MA arrived then top 4 would indeed be a great achievement.
The Arsenal of today does bear a resemblance of Wengers tenure at Highbury. Wenger and Dein, now we have Arteta and Edu.
You may expect more, but I don’t when considering the mess of a club MA inherited.
Spuds? What on earth have potatoes got to do with football ?
At least you can reply.
Ozil’s form also warranted a pay rise and, again with hindsight, it was wrong… Gazidis was in charge before Wenger left, that’s why he introduced the three musketeers.
The official website announced the changes.
With regards to the official website, it spins a story if it agrees with your opinion, but otherwise it’s factual? Dream on!
The state of the club?
Finished 5th, got to a European Final…. if only that was the situation come the end of the season… but of course, since MA arrived we haven’t been in europe.
Wenger and Dein to Arteta and Edu? You seem to have forgotten more than you think.
Spuds and football – seen them play lately?
By the way, what was your previous poster name, as I’m sure your not hiding anything?
Can i just say ANYONE who hides behind a name is not one to trust and please dont debate with me. FAKES!!!!!
No, the club spin certain stories so as not to make themselves and players look bad. Cast your mind back to the story the club put out in ’95 about why Stefan wanted to leave. They said his wife didn’t like the cold weather here and wanted to be in a warmer climate. That was to cover up his wife having an affair with one of the players. Then we have the Wenger story. They said he was stepping down when in fact he was sacked.
Wenger told Dein who he wanted and then Dein got to work. Arteta tells Edu who he wants and Edu goes to work. Do you honestly think that it was Deins idea to sign PV4 ?
Never have I seen potatoes play football. What league do they play in?
Interesting “fact” there about Wenger – care to share your information with one and all?
Who is your inside informer?
From your post below, you say he didn’t like the club was planning to go forward – so why the big send off?
So your not actually comparing the two parties with regards to their successes then (AW DD / MA /EDU).
That’s how I interpreted your post and , as we know, there is absolutely no comparison is there?
I have no idea about players and their affairs, as it seems pointless to speculate.
If your story is true, which I have no reason to believe it isn’t, then do I act like you seem to do and believe those statements that align to my way of thinking, or just ignore the official website because the club can’t be trusted?
As for the spuds, burying your head in the sand, doesn’t mean it goes away – as we know from the previous three years.
After 22 years as the manager it was the send off he deserved, plus it helped to placate the AKBs.
You do what you like about what is posted on .com. I take it with a pinch of salt.
Still haven’t got a Scooby what you’re on about regarding potatoes/spuds.
And your source for the Wenger fact?
I’d take Dean over Edu as my go to man any day of the week.
You’d take a man that’s been out of the loop for nearly 2 decades ? Wow.
Where was the “mess”. Club finished 5th and made Europa League final previous season and was 8th when Emery was sacked. Where is the improvement under Arteta given the money spent (two 8th place finishes, no European football), unless he acheives better than 5th this season?
@kedar,
I fully agree that the abuse Wenger got from some of his own fans was sickening. It’s unbelievable how ungrateful and short sighted some fans were bullying the man that kept their beloved club competing against all odds for so many years.
That being said, however cruel and unfair it was it’s done and dusted. Wenger’s gone and he’s not coming back.
No need to redirect resentment towards Arteta and assassinate him because Wenger was assassinated. It makes no sense, Arteta’s not responsible for what happened to Wenger.
If Arteta gets better support than Wenger had from the club then great, that’s good for Arsenal.
Let’s move on.
Great Post, just to confirm that I am not giving Mikel stick because of Arsene – I’m giving my opinion on what I see he is failing to do as our current manager.
Love him to prove me completely wrong come the end of the season.
Fair enough Ken. Everyone’s entitled to it’s opinion
@LeGunner so it was okay for Wenger to disrespect the match going supporters but not for them to give it back ? As in all walks of life, if you can’t take it, don’t give it. Imagine going to play your most hated rivals in the 2nd leg of a semi final, with the score all square of the the 1st leg, and putting out a weakened team and getting thrashed 5-1. Then the following season in the semi final at Wembley leaving out your inform player because the caretaker manager of the opposition is also the national manger of that player. Then your manager says that finishing in the top 4 is a trophy, ranking it above both domestic cups. Then to cap it all he blames the fans for the club not winning the PL.
He reaped what he sowed.
Herr Drier
I’m not saying Wenger didn’t make any mistakes in his 22 year career at Arsenal, that’s not my point.
I was just saying he deserved some respect for his enormous contribution to the club. The abuse was sickening in my opinion.
As I said it’s done and dusted, lets move on and support our team.
He got respect for the good things he done.
👍👍 plus keeps Kroenke happy by staying in EPL, because he does not watch games, so not interested in the Arsenal’s results or quality of football.
Ah yes to cover up his limitations as a manager bring out the age excuse for the 100th time ,we get it you bought some younger players but that doesn’t give you a free pass for the next 5-10 years .
I would u set stand if these players were say low transfer fee players but he seems to miss out the part that he’s spent 250 million in 18 months .
And it’s pretty obvious why the club went down this path .
You’re 1 and 2 points don’t make sense to me as that deadwood as you put it won Arteta that fA cup ,so if they are deadwood what does that make the players he as now .
This set of players are no better than the team that Wenger left for Emery .
That was a reply to gunsmoke @
*I would understand
Wenger got a free pass for almost a decade and a half, so what’s an odd year pr two under a different manager?
I should also add that is was a very long period of sustained regression under Wenger, compared to a slow, but steady progression under MA.
How do you measure regression and progression with regards to The Arsenal Jonbo?
Under Wenger:
We went from being competitive in the league for a long time to not being competitive in the league for even longer = Regression
We went from 2 European finals, and slow progression in the CL over first 10 years, to constant humiliations over his last 7/8 year period = Regression
We went from winning trophies to 9 years straight without one = Regression
We went from brilliant defending, to dreadful defending = Regression
Under Emery:
Short-term progression that quickly blew up in his face because he didn’t deal with the deep rooted culture issues he inherited, and the fact he wasn’t backed by the club. He left the club in a mess for MA, but the majority of that mess was from the Wenger/Gazidis reign.
Under Arteta:
A very mixed bag so far, but slow and steady progression overall. Worst attacking play, but best defending we’ve seen in a long time. Obviously a drop off in Europe compared to UE, but pretty much the same as what we were seeing under Wenger. Huge improvements in discipline, work rate, prospects, and what I like most about MA so far is that he’s gone after player power and cultural issues at the club.
Last season it was 8th, but this season when we can also say that its finally MA’s team, we’ll improve on that.
The issue with most of MA’s critics is that they do not realise that judging his performance is very nuanced. It’s easy to take a black and white approach to it and purely look at the results, but that would be turning a blind eye to the cultural issues that MA has worked on, and the mess he inherited from the previous two managers. These things take a long time to sort out, just look at Utd!
To put the progression simply, when Wenger left, Arsenal was in shocking state for Emery, and when Emery left, Arsenal was in an even worse state for Arteta, but if Arteta were to leave tomorrow, he’d be leaving the club in a really good position.
Very young squad, with lots of hot prospects, and resale value. Wage bill reduced. There’s no noise coming out from the players or the club anymore. Finally have discipline within the squad, work rate, and a seemingly more focused crop of players. Nice little British core developing at the club as well.
Jonbo /TMJW, I ‘ll reproduce my “regression /progression” article, with some added stats regarding Mikel Arteta, the man Arsene Wenger recommended for the position he now holds.
Love the fact that you highlight the great young talent we have coming through from the Hale End Academy, developed it is said, by the £20,000,000 plus profit Wenger made when selling Anelka.
To top your observation off, it was AW ( while in “total control” of the club as you declare) who signed these young players – Unai Emery who gave them their chances – Mikel Arteta who is being praised for their progression – that sounds like a perfectly thought out scenario from the club’s point of view,, as that’s part of what all three were getting paid to do.
Just as an afterthought, are you TMJW?
Ken1945, I think you’re confusing Hale End with London Colney when you mentioned the money from the Anelka transfer. They are two different places.
Good points Jonbo
This is quite clearly one of the better comments, in my view, as it takes into account the context when assessing the current state of the team and Arteta’s performance.
Jonbo, the only good state Arteta would leave for a new manager would be Saka, Martinelli, ESR and Tierney who have nothing to do with him He has also cost us Guanduzi, if not also Saliba.
Ramsdale, Tommi, Sambi…
As Jonbo pointed out, Arteta has got rid of the players that were the problem in the squad.
Their is a number of reasons in my opinion, why the gaffer won’t be going anywhere soon.
And here are my take.
1) He has bought his self vital time by winning the FA cup.
2) He has clear out the dead wood that burdens the wage bill.
3) He seems a natural born coach.
4) He seems to understand and respect the tradition and ideals of the club.
5) Though not a legend he was an influential member of the first team..
6) Arsenal did make a mistake sacking Emery prior to employing Arteta ( though it was more like a mercy sacking ) after a poor run of results due mainly to communication.
7)Having made the decision to employ Arteta, he honestly hasn’t done that bad, maybe a bit of over thinking like our most recent game, but he would have learned from that experience.
Their are definitely mistakes along the way, Saliba is the first one comes to mind, but that case can still be corrected.
The gaffer needs help from a sporting director, and here is why I recommend Marina Granoskaia from Chelsea, players like Guendouzi, Saliba and Mavropanos and a few others would be properly be accounted for.
There is a clear path the gaffer wants to go, it’s just that recent results don’t help.
Gunsmoke, agree with your points 4,5 and 6.
Point 1. Why has winning the fa cup, with (mostly) the players you say were “deadwood” (point 2) then proceeded to be knocked out in the 4th and 3rd round.
Point 3. A natural coach, as you put it, doesn’t need to micro manage every second of a game from the touchline…. look at how the top coaches such as Pep, Jurgen, Conteh and Tuchell react during a game. Yes, they celebrate, cajole, give out instructions, but they do not act like MA does.
I put this down to MA’s inexperience and that’s why he should have earnt his stripes at a smaller club.
I do agree that, given time, he might just become a natural coach…. but not at the detriment of The Arsenal.
Point 6. Unia was in the wrong place at the wrong time and taking over from Arsene was never going to be easy – I wish him well.
Point 7. What makes a successful team, is consistency, as all the top clubs show.
My frustration with MA, is the lack of said consistency.
I was at the match when we absolutely destroyed the spuds, both on and off the field.
MA had got it spot on and the crowd knew it and responded.
I thought we had found the answer – then I watched the Burnley, Brighton games and it shows he cannot get that consistency…. despite all the changes in personnel.
We cannot cite injuries, because that happens everywhere.
Neither can we say it’s a young squad, because that’s the route he went down – discarding experience left right and centre.
Good point Ken. Ozil helped Arsenal win three FA Cups and he is now regarded as a Zero. Aubamayang wins one for Arteta and his job is untouchable.
Fact, he took over a team that the season before finished 5th and was in Europe albeit Europa. Fact a lot of the “deadwood” that has been released is doing well at their new clubs and playing at a high level in their league and Europe. Fact the squad age is not an excuse because that has been planned that way and they are all experienced. Fact we have ended up with a weaker squad, not stronger. Fact no European football has been to our benifit as far as injuries and fatigue is concerned. Fact if we dont finish above 5th, we haven’t improved the teams capability from when he took over. Fact all of the current teams Arsenal youths have been promoted from our youth to the first team by previous managers, none by this. Fact our attacking play is the least productive it has been for years. Fact we are yet to see any improvement in league position since Arteta took over. Fact over a quarter of our home games under Arteta have ended in defeat. Fact Arteta has had more money spent on a team in his short time and one window than any other manager. Fact Arteta was humbled by the person he took over from when that manager had a weaker team. Fact Arteta was humbled by Patrick Vierra, the person, reportedly he got the nod over. So a lot of things still need to be done to say Arteta is or has done a good job. Finish 4th and he has done a good job, finish lower and i dont see it.
A job well done – not for me by any imagination.
1. He does not process the technical knowledge or ability.
2. He has no man management skills.
3. His team selection has been bewildering at times questionable with the lack of tactical opposition knowledge.
4. Far too much chat and no action, blaming everyone bar himself.
5. Allowing the team to be cut to bone whilst chasing a euro place – immature, unqualified and down right suicidal.
👍teddy👍
Can it be said that we were too quick to do away with Unai Emeery? He has done so good for himself since he was sacked by Arsenal, winning the Europa league and taking Villareal to the 2nd UCL Semi final qualification in the club’s history against a team we had always faltered. Let’s keep trusting the process.
Fact Unai Emery is a better coach than Arteta. Fact, his language barrier and possibly the difference in cultures in England was not suited to Emery. I personally thought he was an excellent choice for manager of our great club after Wenger but he sadly wasn’t a good match for this club and it was a sour part of his managerial career. He is an excellent and very under rated coach and will successfully ply his trade away from Arsenal.
The process failed and the project is now looking set to fail considering our recent form and the strength of our remaining opponents. “Job well done” is the last thing on my mind right now.
@Awhy
I liked Emery, and club let him down, but he should been sacked earlier into his second season because it was clear he’d lost the dressing room. Doesn’t matter who you are, when the players give up on the manager, it’s over.
I always felt that the club never backed Emery because he was a Gazidis appointment, and nothing to do with the new regime. When they didn’t back UM in the transfer window, you knew they’d be problems. Such a shame because he is still proving to be one of the best around.
Jonbo / TMJW, regression and progression?
I think you are flogging a dead horse ken.
Yes, I think your right Reggie…. it makes me think that Dan Kits assumption that he is TMJW spot on.
I’ll keep perserviring though as it shouldn’t be that difficult to answer.
I posted higher up, i wont debate with FAKES there is a reason they hide and i will give them a wide berth.
So now we are saying 6 th is acceptable ?
Why sack Emery or Wenger then ?
👍
Well Wenger didn’t challenge for the league 14 years straight, last 7/8 years in Europe were humiliating, and he gave the players all the power. I’m no expert on his sacking, but I would imagine that played a major role.
Emery unfortunately had to go because he’d lost the dressing room, and clearly wasn’t getting the backing from the club.
So two 8 th place finishes was progress ?
Well Wenger was sacked because he vehemently disagreed with the new direction the club was heading, ie a DoF amongst other things.
Emery because it was easier and cheaper than getting rid and replacing the scumbag players that took the piss out of the way he spoke and downed tools.
Ah!!! So “Wenger was sacked because he vehemently disagreed with the new direction the club was taking.”
Nothing to do with results, players, transfers then?
What WAS the direction the club was taking?
Whatever it was, we haven’t seen European football for two years, the first time in over two decades…. so it couldn’t be that.
Trying to cut the wage bill?
After the Aubameyang and Willian debacle, along with the reported £8,000,000 extension contract ….. it couldn’t be that.
Losing money in the transfer market?
After giving players away for free, setting ludicrously low buy out clauses (Mavs and Guendouzi)… it couldn’t be that.
Trimming the squad?
Well it COULD be that, following the news that we are bringing in five youngsters in order to fulfill the squad requirements.
Getting rid of the “deadwood.”
That’s ALSO a possibility but of course, they waited until said “deadwood” had won the fa cup.
To be successful in europe!?
Again a POSSIBILITY , as Wenger failed in his 19 attempts, but as we haven’t been in europe since he and Emery departed…. it couldn’t be that.
Ensuring that not having one man in charge of everything?
As Gazidis had already started that process…. it couldn’t be that – although it seems two men in complete control is OK…. so it couldn’t be that.
So what direction has the club followed that Wenger was vehemently opposed too?
As I posted previously, he was vehemently against a DoF being appointed. He was also against the scouting system being revamped, meaning his scouts were out of the loop.
And that was it?
Nothing to do with results etc just a Director of Football and scouts?
That’s amazing, it really is…. especially as you have stated that you have a long list of his mistakes.
My opinion is that he realised he had taken the club as far as HE could take it – had run out of ideas, time and energy – was affected by the abuse he received from a section of the fanbase – was stabbed in the back by gazidis and kronkie and decided to call it a day.
As you know, getting the bullet or being sacked is instant (remember UE), but AW stayed on in order for the club to find a suitable replacement… he recommended your man Arteta to the club, as you well know.
He then had the final Farewell, where the fanbase recognised his work of over two decades and the rest is history.
Now that’s my personal take and if you can prove otherwise, with factual evidence I’m ready to listen….. over to you.
By the way, once we can have a debate without the jibes, it’s good to read another passionate Gooner’s completely different viewpoint.
No, nothing to do with results. Cast your mind back to what Wenger always said about contracts. He said he was a man of principals and had never broken a contract and never will. He even said that the other month in an interview when asked if he would quit his job at FIFA to go back into management.
Sackings aren’t always instant as I can testify to that. The club allowed him to stay on until the end of the season for the reasons I posted previously. Could you imagine the scenes at the Emirates and at away games if they sacked him straight away in January. Fights everywhere between the AKBs and the WOBs.
I find it interesting that you say it had nothing to do with the results – for me, that was the main reason.
We had failed to qualify two seasons in a row for the CL and, obviously, missed out on the money finishing in the top four and CL brings to a club that, in the words of it’s owner, has to be self sufficient.
The loss of revenue was enormous to kronkie.
I understand your point regarding the contract, but the enormous pressure that he faced, not only by the owner and the media, but the section of fans I mentioned must have been intolerable…. again, my opinion.
In the world of football, can you give one example of a manager not leaving his position the day after he was sacked?
This is a results orientated, cutthroat environment and, if as you believe, he was vehemently against the path that the board and owner wanted to go down, why would they not dismiss him immediately?
He could have caused more damage via the media, than any AKB rumblings, but he conducted himself with the dignity and class we all knew he had.
I don’t believe that AW “allowed” the board to let him stay, he would never have allowed that and, as I said, they were still asking his advice on his replacement – no way would this have been happening if he was sacked… in my opinion.
As for the scenes between AKB and WOB’s you must have witnessed those at the Emirates leading up to his departure, so nothing new there.
I guess this all amounts to a difference of opinions /viewpoints and, unless either party decides to say it as it was, that’s how it will stay.
Herr Drier
It’s funny because I so passionately agree with you backing Arteta and at the same time I so passionately oppose your views on Wenger.
Wenger was surely not sacked because he opposed the board’s new policy and not even because results had been disappointing.
He was sacked because some of the Arsenal short sighted and ungrateful fans became so vehemently abusive towards Wenger blaming him for all Arsenal’s shortcomings that the atmosphere became toxic to a point where the board decided it had become untenable to further back Wenger up.
Wenger was sacked because of the fans.
Without the Wenger out campaign the board would surely have let Wenger run his contract down. That was the least they should have done as a thank you for all the trophies and for paying out the Emirates without the club investing a single bloody penny in the team for 8-9 years!!!!
LeGunner, think about it. If his sacking was down to some of the supporters turning against him, he wouldn’t have had his contract renewed in 2017 or even 2015.
As for paying out the Emirates, the club still owed money on the debt after his sacking. Kroenke took out a loan last year to pay it all up.
The Wenger out movement kept increasing until it was too much pressure for the board to cope with. It started really putting the team results at risk as the atmosphere was toxic.
I don’t know it Wenger paid for 100% of the Emirates or not but clearly he paid for it.
Just look at the cold hard facts:
Roughly somewhere between 2005-2015 (+ or – 1 or 2 years) you add the value of all players purchased and substract all players sold and you end with a total of zero.
That means for 8-9 years the only funds available Wenger had for transfers came from players sale.
And that whilst competing in the richest league in the world.
I call that recipe for relegation. Not only did Arsenal not get relegated but they qualified for CL every single season without fail.
Every year all the profits went to the stadium and Wenger made that possible.
It should be renamed the Wenger Emirates because he paid for it at the cost of his personal trophy cabinet.
How can some Arsenal fans after that point the finger with hatred at some of the mistakes he made I will never understand.
LeGunner, I see you are using Wengers excuse for the club not winning the PL in 2016 about the toxic atmosphere. So much for Wenger consistently harping on that his players had great mental strength !
Wenger never paid a penny towards the stadium debt, the club did.
Wenger had money from players sales and also from gate receipts and sponsorship deals. Money from the CL was used to pay the stadium debt of £25m per year. As per the deal with the RBS and the Bonds, only 30% of money we received from transfers was allowed to be used to go towards payment of the stadium debt. As I posted previously, Kroenke took out a loan to finally pay it off.
He has a bust in the Directors area and a statue is being planned. That’s enough.
You say how some fans can point the finger of hatred at him, others will say how can some fans put up with him treating the match going fans as tobys.
Interesting viewpoints LeGunner, some good discussions here tonight.
What I find so hard to understand, is why one has to be bracketed into one camp or another.
I’ve been reading a little bit more on Xhaka’s remarks regarding the fans.
He says that he keeps his eyes cast downwards when he leaves the field of play, because he can still see some of the same “fans” who gave him so much abuse previously.
I just wonder how that must make one feel as a human being… and AW had even more of that same hatred.
It would be interesting to see one of these “fans” on a one to one basis with Xhaka.
Ken, the abuse Xhaka suffered both at the game and on SM was disgusting. People moaned that he told the fans to go forth and multiply 😉, yet we never heard the fans moaning when Wrighty hung out the dressing room window at Highbury after we lost at home to Blackburn in the 97/98 season and shouted go forth and multiply you masterbaters.
I’m not his biggest fan but while Xhaka wears the shirt I’ll support him.
But you condone the abuse Arsene Wenger got?
If you support Xhaka while he wears the shirt, where was your support while he was the manager?
To put those questions into context, I have never called out Arteta at a game, nor any player wearing the shirt, except the right back who Wenger called off after the abuse he was getting and whose name I can’t remember (Eboue?) and the shame I felt after reading what the player was going through has stayed with me.
Ken, I’m pretty sure no one said they hoped Wengers daughter got cancer or hoped that his house burnt down with his family inside. Those were the things that were said on SM to Xhaka.
Thank you Ken.
I agree with you we shouldn’t have to be bracketed into one camp.
We are all free not to like a player or a manager but it at the end of the day we all support and live Arsenal.
Also LeGunner, Arsharvin, Santos, Gervinho, Ozil, Alexis, Poldolski, Giroud weren’t exactly free transfers !!
I think Giroud WAS free!
Admin Pat, Giroud fee was about £10M. I think you might have confused him with Chamack (sp).
Yes you’re right, apologies Its an oldster moment…
Please don’t make me list the players we sold Herr Drier or I just may start crying…
😂😂😂
Yeah LeGunner, I was cheesed off that our best players wanted out.
So much arrant and constant nonsense is written against MA by thr usual suspects who have totally failed to see th wider longer picture. One of those has several posts on this very thread but I no longer read his rants, though I notice his name and choose to move past it.
I will not reiterate my own well known views though, as I HAVE POSTED THEM GOD KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES, and unlike CERTAIN people, I have learned that there is a natural limit to how many times anyone can keep writing the SAME BORING posts.
@Jon Fox, with your end statement I readily concur, so please stop posting!
Lols
It’s inevitable and completely understandable that negative comments are made following any set back but in my opinion Arteta has done a good job so far and will continue to do so
The Club continues to get my unconditional support, which means in turn that Arteta does
Come on you Gunners
There we go again Fingers, just because one voices an opinion, doesn’t mean lack of commitment to the club.
Are we to assume that Jonbo didn’t support the club for Wenger’s last 7/8 years?
I doubt that very much!!!!
Ken, i give my opinions and so do you, backing up what we are saying. People on here just resort to name calling and accusations. If they strongly believe Arteta is doing a good job, dont slag the poster, TELL US WHY. We do!!!!!!
And we have often disagreed my friend, but we respect each other!!!
Ken Reggie @
This is what I’ve noticed, the fans that have their questions regarding Is Arteta the right man for the job – give their opinions without resorting to personal abuse to fellow fans
But the Arteta fan club are the exact opposite ,they can not give their views without being complete tools .
They seem more interested in other fans views and being proved right than actually supporting the manager they go so hard on .
Strange IMO .
If you give it out be prepared to receive it.
Ken none of us can agree all the time but most of us respect that and dont spit blood and insults when we dont. Its good to challenge, debate and have banter, the problem is those that resort to calling people immature and derogatory terms, they spoil it.
I’ve just caught up with this ken1945 and don’t understand why you have addressed this comment to me?
My post was in response to the article’s question and in support of Arteta as Arsenal manager
It wasn’t aimed at any other poster and posted before the posting spats above all developed, which I am not at all interested in, I’m not accusing anybody else of anything
I stand by my comments and see nothing at all inflammatory in them, so genuinely surprised by your direct response
FF, my apologies – I was caught up in the frenzy of activity and read your response wrongly.
No worries ken1945
Victim mentality much? where did he say anything about other peoples opinions.
????
Have you wondered why even overperforming coaches eventually gets fired in a club they’ve previously lead to glory days.eg conte,allegri,sarri,tuchel,wenger,emery and the likes.
We have to wait until the season is over before we decide whether he has been successful or not. Whether we believe he can take us forward. There have been periods this season where most fans on this site sung arteta’s praises even some of his harshest critics. Someone even apologized for being so hard on him prior to our purple patch. Some fans feel he’ll never be successful and some want to see him succeed. I for one would love for him to succeed but for me that means taking 4th place this year! Like other I believe he’s made many errors and they have to be highlighted. Errors that if we don’t make top 4 will be even more damming. As said above I have been baffled by many of his decision this season but I have been impressed by the way the team has come together and played in some important matches this year. Im hoping we can all be impressed as the season draws to a close and we can get champions league football next year plus add some talent to our squad. He has been given enough time and enough money to have achieved this and I’ll wait until the end of the season to see where we end up. We could have lost to watford burnley and Norwich twice this year but if we made top 4 I’m sure no one would complain. Let’s wait and see 8 games left.
Great read sir!!!
Leeds under David O’Leary had the youngest squad in the premier League and was far better than this team very entertaining and even reached the semi final of the champions League! Yeah times have changed but Arsenal play boring drab football and are completely wasteful in front of goal! It seems the youngest squad excuses is cited to give Arteta more time and excuses but the fact of the matter is this man has used up over 250 million and the team does not look any better for it and also people saying the defense is fixed are only lying to themselves, the defending is still comical… We spent 50 million on a Brighton defender who ironically have taken 4 points from us and conceded only 1 more goal than us and wolves have conceded 9 or 10 less without spending a fortune so the excuses are wearing thin with people who have their eyes wide open to this phantom process. Mikel Arteta may be a good coach in the future but will never be top level.
Yes it is a young team but with more experience than most PL teams.our squad is full of international players Xhaka Swiss captain,MØ Norway captain,KT Scottish international for several years,Saka played in the Euros final,TP, Pépé,Elneny,White,Ramsdale, Gabriel Martinelli,Leno..all have international experience, surely this should make up for the average age of the team no??
I think “so far” is debatable. As much as I commend what he his doing, what he has done can only credited to where Arsenal is on the table at the end of the season. Top4 or Top6 we”ll know.
Keep going MA, stuff what the Moo Moos have to say.
MOO MOOS bloody Moo moos🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You’ve remembered more Moo Moos than Herr Drier has forgotten. 🐃🐃🐃🐃
Moo Moos, a term given to whiney Arsenal fans by the main face of the original Gooners. Fits quite a few on here.
Not heard that one, who is the main face of the original Gooners?
Don’t forget Ken ,mr hair dryer has forgetting more than you know about football ,but don’t worry apparently I’m in the same club as you .
Maybe we will see him going for the Arsenals Managers job when Arteta finally gets his P45.
Dan Kit, you can’t get my name right and then wonder why I give you shit 🙄
Dainton Connell, aka The Bear, RIP. He was also the head of security for the Pet Shop Boys. Tragically died in Moscow on the 5/11/07 when the car he was a passenger in hit ice and crashed into the river. His funeral was in Holloway Road and was attended by some ex Arsenal players and a host of celebrities.
Thanks for that – another part of The Arsenal history I have learnt today.
We all care – we all want us to challenge and be up there for the silverware year in and out.
But, we won’t with MA – sorry and all that.
A lot talking about the lack of respect, the narrative, give him time and it ain’t over yet.
My point is this – stop living on the past FA cup win – the player we gave away saved his future skin on that single performance. Secondly, all very well about the young team – most have burnt out and if the haven’t they are injured – playing a game a week,
The fire and guts disappeared in the last 2 games, MA has to take the flak for that. The RB position against Brighton was embarrassing, expecting a young midfield player to keep a hold of all the middle of the park – come on.
MA at the press conference blames the players performance – if he had a desk job in the City he would have been fired ages ago.
The yanks like him and not sack him for one reason and we all know that – saved them thousands a week wages. On the other had we have no FB or depth – that’s failure plain and simple.
Ken1945 and Dan Kit, Winning the FA cup maybe it’s as a result of a new managers bounce, but we still had to beat Chelsea and City to achieve it,
You will agree with me that both Emery, Arteta and even the great Wenger struggles to get any worthwhile contributions. from Mustafi, Klosinac and the rapidly declining Ozil.
Someone had to put a bell around the cat neck and the young inexperienced coach took the credit.
Those players along with others had a combined wage bill of a staggering annual budget.
Even in banking none performing loans draw red flag and is a signal of serious repercussions to follow.
Arteta was always giving instructions on and off the pitch, mentoring on one’s positioning in the game, how to control or receive the ball, he was a natural leader on and off the pitch, he was even nick name the coach during his playing days at Arsenal, am not sure the gaffer just went into coaching for a living.
Yes I strongly agree with you, consistency is paramount for any team to be successful, yes that match when we totally destroy Spuds with that iconic celebration by Auba will always live long in my memory.
That lost against Brighton is just a little too much for some of us to handle myself included, but we must fight on with blood in our eyes.
Gunsmoke, what Arteta did with the so called “dross” he inherited was excellent and, in my opinion, he DOES deserve the credit… but one cannot then turn round and say it wasn’t his fault we finished eight.
If he was able to motivate that squad of players for a cup run, then why couldn’t he do it in the league?
If he could beat the two best teams to lift the cup, where was that kind of motivation before the cup run?
Of course, we did actually do exactly the same thing in AW’s penultimate year with city and chelsea …. and we finished 5th.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, the shine is now off the ball.
The team on Saturday look lack of motivation and the experiment may have come about by overthinking.
Which resulted as square pegs in round holes
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We are playing and performing exactly as the stats say we are, pure averageness or 2-3 over par.
If Mikel does not get our team to score more goals or concede less than the two previous seasons he will not take our club any further, and you can take that to the bank.
Top four or kaput for his career.
Unai Emery lost 10 games all season when he managed Arsenal for a full season. He had lost 3 of 13 when he got sacked and “lost the dressing room” that equates to a loss of 9 over a projected 38 games. Where is the improvement?
And MA inherited “that” dross?
Sorry but the credit comes with winning titles and at least going to the CL .. and so far we have none!
There will still be some delusional and hopeless fans that will still go ahead to support this clueless and half baked manager ..That’s sums up why arsenal has been falling+ BAD OWNERS + INEXPERIENCED MANAGER+ CLUELESS MANAGEMENT+ SOME AMBITIONLESS FANS = A FAILED PROCESS.