Don’t rewrite history – This kind of defeat never happened under Wenger

Arsenal 0-3 Aston Villa – Didn’t Happen Under Wenger by Dan Smith

On Sunday Arsenal had their joint heaviest League defeat at the Emirates. Another stat to add along with last season’s worst finish in 25 years to remind us of our decline.

Yet reading subsequent articles since, I have seen Arsene Wenger’s name pop up more than, say, Aubameyang’s. Some wanted to remind people this was the old regime’s dross.

That we shouldn’t overreact because this kind of thing was happening in Mr Wenger’s final few years anyway. Has anyone else noticed that these players are never Wenger’s dross when we win?

Now, I get it. Some gooners will never admit we have gone backwards since the Frenchmen left. To do that would be admitting you were wrong to hound out the greatest boss in our history.

Maybe you think it would impact on your views if you acknowledged the grass hasn’t been proven greener? It’s not a debate, it’s a fact. Pick any criteria used to measure a team, we have gone backwards. League position, creativity, style of play, our home record, not scoring in games, shots on targets, etc, backwards!

What inspired this piece is kind of twofold.

I notice some gooners are being misleading on certain facts. Either they are too young to remember or are lying for their own agenda.

Either way it’s not fair for the next generation of Arsenal fans to be taught that losing 3-0 to Aston Villa at home is the norm.

Arteta said himself in first press conference, this club has values and standards that should be matched at all times. Our manager’s own words were that he wouldn’t tolerate those standards not being met.

Whether it’s the players, owner, coaching staff, us fans – we have to say losing 3-0 at home to a side who last campaign finished 17th is simply unacceptable. Take away the scoreline, the performance cannot be tolerated. It’s one of those results where you say, ‘that can’t happen again’.

We are Arsenal, one of the biggest clubs in the world.

You can’t one minute predict a title challenge then shrug your shoulders and say ‘oh well, this happened under Wenger’ just to make yourself feel better. First of all its false, but secondary where’s your standards. That result is unacceptable, almost like our rock bottom.

To put into context how unprecedented this weekend result was; In the Emirates stadium’s 14-year existence, that was only the 5th time in the League we lost by a 3-goal margin (our heaviest).
The other 4 was twice to Man City and Chelsea (one of which was under Freddie).

So anyone who suggests under Wenger, we were being humiliated at home to sides outside the top 4, it’s a complete fabrication.

This weekend of course was our 2nd home defeat in 4 League defeats. So let’s now challenge the notion that this was happening under Mr Wenger. Arteta has already lost the same amount of League games at home than we did in Wenger’s final two years.

In fact in the EPL’s 14 years history only one season did we lose more than 3 League games (4).

So losing 3-0 at home to Aston Villa,
Finishing 8th,
Finishing in our worst position in 25 years,

None of that is acceptable.

We have gone backwards since Mr Wenger left. Only when we start accepting the problem will we find a solution.

Be Kind In The Comments…

Dan Smith

Tags Arteta Aston Villa Wenger

73 Comments

  1. Jon says:

    Equally shouldn’t try and kid ourselves that we weren’t going backwards at the end of Wenger’s tenure and could quite easily have been in exactly the same position or worse if he’d stayed. All a matter of perspective. For now, I prefer to steer clear of kneejerk hyperbole. Let’s judge Arteta on a full season.

  2. Top Gunner says:

    There’s no comparison between Wenger and Arteta. We would always finish in top4, even when Arsenal didn’t have money to buy players. Wenger understand the game very well. Besides he would manage youngsters better than Army Commander(Arteta), who chase players away when they make mistakes. Under Wenger, Arsenal was interesting to watch, unlike the current team. We gonna sink deeper further under the leadership of Arteta

    1. SueP says:

      I have nothing but respect for AW but it is wrong of you to say that Arsenal always finished in the top 4 under his management

      1. Gunner23 says:

        Well 20 of 22 seasons in the top 4. So he is not wrong

    2. Thomo says:

      We have never been 4-0 up at half time and draw 4-4 like under Wenger or be the first team in the champions league not to have a shot at goal remember Barcelona, or get hammered 5-1 against bayern twice yeah Wenger was a whole lot better

      1. Dan says:

        That was at Newcastle
        Bayern were not in prem so try again

        Fans were saying this happened under Wenger
        I’m asking for a side outside the top 4 who won 3-0 or better

        1. Dan says:

          At the Emirates

        2. Thomo says:

          No but you are trying to say how great things were under Wenger but as we all know in his last few years he was dire if you choose to dismiss those examples that’s up to you but as someone said earlier this decline started with him and you forget when he was winning titles it was only between arsenal and Manchester United, now their are several teams in the mix so don’t talk crap

          1. Dan says:

            several teams in the mix?
            How many teams were in the mix last season ?
            One ?

  3. Dan kit says:

    “I notice some gooners are being misleading on certain facts. Either they are too young to remember or are lying for their own agenda”

    That paragraph really stood out for me ,watch the usual suspects come on this post and prove that paragraph right .

  4. Chairman Gallant says:

    We have gone backwards no doubt, since Wenger left. But still, it was time for him to go .The only problem was that we hired the wrong Coach, I don’t; care what other people might say, .Arteta is too inexperienced to handle Arsenal. We are a big club with a big history. The Arsenal board hired Arteta because he was cheap, and now we are setting all the bad records. Lets brace ourselves for a long and tortuous season.

    1. Indeed says:

      But I would believe you never made these statements when he won you the FA Cup, did you? So, you must note that positive and negative statements have different effects! This is never the time to spray such negative statements! Be an Arsenal fan through all seasons… Express your emotions but don’t spray conclusions that only seeks to divide! You brave yourself for a tortuous season but don’t enjoin others to do so…

    2. AB says:

      Some fans are not loyal. Once we lose a game, everyone becomes the scapegoat. I can’t imagine fans saying that arteta is inexperienced despite winning two trophies within 6 months of his taking over. You can’t predict people’s inconsistency. Liverpool, man City, Man u and Chelsea have all suffered heavy losses this season. This tells us that the premiership is evolving very fast.

  5. CorporateMan says:

    We started going backwards under Wenger (against the standards set by himself) due to the emergence of money-bag club owners who could buy success off the shelf. And our owners who wouldn’t invest in the club but would let the manager bear the brunt of “not spending money”
    But when it comes to achievement and where he’s taken this club, we can only dream of another one like Wenger.
    Whether we accept it or not is immaterial; the truth remains.

  6. GunneRay says:

    Wenger had to go! Simple as that. The problem has been the way the club has been run since then. Poor decision making. Buying, selling and allowing contacts to be ran down! It was heading south under Wenger and the club is struggling to head north under an owner who has little interest in English football. Just business. Please let’s not start with the whole Wenger thing again. He was great. One of the best. He just got caught up by the rest and had no answers to improve on his fantastic work!

    1. SueP says:

      Well writ GunneRay!

    2. siamois says:

      As much as it pains to say it I agree AW had to go sooner or later, I blame the club they should have known that he wasn’t going to keep going for ever for many reasons and prepared themselves for his departure, they should have had someone in place before sacking him, like a pre-agreement, something similar to what Bayer did with Pep and after the Pep, giving the new man time to get ready and have a proper plan.

      1. Davi says:

        I love Wenger, but I have to say he set a lot of bad presidents. It was under him that we started paying huge wages (for the time) to young players before they’d proven themselves. It created a very bad culture. I honestly thought Song was a fantastic CM but hearing his comments about jealousy over Henry’s car made me realise why he never went as far as his talents could have taken him. Priorities got messed up – and he was one of the more successful ones. I have no doubt players like Denilson and Bendtner could have been very good players if handled correctly.
        As was said, decline started under Wenger but it was a slow decline.

  7. Sid Andrew Pereira says:

    The worrying part of that defeat is that after the second goal i had absolutely no hope that we would get anything from the game. I’m an Arsenal optimist, i always think we would win, it could be prime Bayern or Barca i always think we have a chance. To go down 2 goals to Villa at home and know the game is over and we don’t have a prayer…well that is new terrority for me. There is no chemistry in this team, not in defense, midfield or attack. Whatever sacrifices made in personnel to cultivate a new team spirit and work ethic seem pointless. Much better should be done with the squad we have.

  8. Henza4 says:

    I total agree with you Dan. We had regressed since Wenger left in all aspects of the game

  9. ThirdManJW says:

    Well the facts would disagree. Under Wenger we conceded 8 in just one game…yes 8! Nearly double figures. 5-1 three times in a row to the same team! Chelsea smashed 6 past us without reply, and so on…

    I even remember Southampton battering us 4-0 about 5 years ago.

    That Villa game was the first time under Arteta that we’ve been truly torn to shreds, whereas it happened a lot under Wenger.

    Obviously other areas were better under Wenger, but there’s no doubt, on the whole, that this is the best we have been defensively in about 12 years.

    Why do some Arsenal fans have such selective memories, especially when it comes to Wenger?

    1. Klose says:

      What you have stated above is a fact and what is also a fact is that we were always in the top 4 in those seasons. I think that is better than 8th position Arteta guided us into last season. He even lost more premier league matches that emery last season. Look we are in 8th week of the league and we already lost 4 matches it never even happen under emery. Worst position in 25 yrs last season.

      1. Chris D says:

        Under Wenger we played better attacking football and nearly always beat the teams we were supposed to. The huge issue is that we lost every game against the top teams and in his last years we were NEVER competitive against them. It’s give and take now. I like that I believe we have a chance against top teams now, but hate that our attack looks so poor which causes every game to be a toss up.

      2. ThirdManJW says:

        @Klose

        Arteta only had half a season, and inherited a club on its knees, but it’s his fault we finished 8th?

        Maybe judge Arteta after a full season? And look at things in context: the league is far more competitive now than in 96, and Wenger inherited a lot of quality players, and a club that wasn’t a complete mess. Look at what Arteta inherited.

    2. Dan says:

      Then you miss the point of the article
      Fans were writing we were losing to the likes of Villa for years at home – almost justifying Sunday
      So I proved actually a side outside top 4 rocking up at the Emirates and winning in that manner never use to happen
      So naming away losses isn’t part of the criteria

    3. Gunner23 says:

      Well because Wenger legacy should not be 5 bad results of 1235 games in charge, so you coming and saying that we should only focus on this loses is unfair to Arsene,

  10. Klose says:

    Some fans sets two difference standards and rules to judge Wenger and the subsequent managers . Wenger got ridiculed for saying 4th position was a trophy and today we are fighting to be in top 6 . None of the subsequent managers has been able to gather the points Wenger has in his last season . Arteta is more toffee than a Gunner coz his style of play doesn’t depict the values and principles of the Arsenal we know. He sets his team in a more defensive than attacks . Arsene Wenger won FA cup in 2017 but that never safe him from being sacked. Emery ( it pains me to mention his name) send us to Europa final in his first year but that never safe him from being sacked the following year . So winning FA cup doesn’t stop from questioning ur tactics or style of play or to some extent calling for you to be replace.
    I’m not pessimistic but I have a stronger belief that we will finish outside the top 6 again and if happen Arteta has to go

    1. GunneRay says:

      Maybe the “4th position was a trophy” attitude was the beginning of the end for Wenger?

      To adopt that attitude was a sign that the club were unable to compete. You would never hear a top side in Germany, Spain or Italy accept anything less than to compete for the league title. When you consider that The Emirates stadium was built for the sole purpose to allow Arsenal to “compete with the very best” (Which I believe were the exact words from Arsenal’s Peter Hill-Wood), it makes it all the Wenger sacking more plausible!

      To adopt that state of mind inherently had a massive effect on the way Arsenal compete today. Or don’t compete!

      The stadium was built with the sole purpose of playing in Europe’s elite league against the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, and PSG etc. However, we are in the Europa league struggling to shots on target at a team called Molde. Why? because we settled for less!

  11. OWOLADE OLUWASIJIBOMI OLAWALE says:

    The only thing I see as negative in our game is lack of flair. Fkr crying out loud Wenger had flare in Arsenal’s game the only issue in Wenger arsenal is defence but attacking we have midfielders that can score goals, make wonderful runs in and out of the opposition goal area.
    I concur we have gone backwards I just hope arteta can wake up see the right formation and let’s start kicking the god damn football in the way we know. Let’s go out attack, attack and attack.
    Let’s I forget, leaving out ozil from this team is still a thing of mystery to me and once in a while we will suffer creativity again stubborn opposition like this that like counter attacking.

  12. GunnerDev says:

    Funny how After a lose people wanna scream we told you so regarding wenger and Ozil. Kind of pathetic in my eyes

  13. Sue says:

    Wow, the Arsenal blogosphere isn’t a happy place right now! No dig at you, Dan, as I agree with you entirely – 0-3 at home is unacceptable!
    Already, MA’s head is being called for.. I’ll freely admit, Sunday was the worst I’ve seen us under him, so poor, even took me back to the later stages with UE… *shudder* …..But wanting him out already, really??!! We all said the job was massive when UE came in and is no different for MA….
    We’ve got problems, still, but unfortunately they’re not going to vanish overnight…
    We need to see a reaction against Leeds, otherwise the blogosphere will be even worse!!! ….. COYG

    1. GunneRay says:

      Completely agree with you, Sue! MA needs time and all the angry Arsenal fans in the world getting on his back won’t make things any easier. Let’s at least give MA until the end of the season to show progress!

      He deserves that, surely? He needs to find a balance in the team and hopefully get some of the youngsters some much needed experience too!

      Have faith and give it time!!!

    2. Indeed says:

      Very true Sue!

      And we as fans have a role to play in lifting the spirits of these players! In as much as they are professionals, they are also human beings… Our words, screams, agitations, and vile messages would put so much pressure on them… I remember how vile the Arsenal atmosphere was under Unai and the players literally became so scared to come out at Emirates to play…

      We need to support them, we must give them encouragement and tell them to go out there a fight! It’s a connection between the fans and them players that energizes the next level of performance in have them…

      Many would not understand because we don’t find ourselves in such a position, but these people need our support…

      Yes, we should vent our frustrations but then we pick them up again and inspire them to rise!

      Inspire them Arsenal fans! Inspire them! Let our words also transmit hope and not gloom and doom because of what our shortsightedness reveals! Blessed is he who does not see but yet believes!

    3. Highbury Hero says:

      Agree completely with you Sue. Such a balanced view! You are not happy with the results but still supporting the manager and the team.

    4. Dan says:

      Yeah be pointless sacking him

    5. ken1945 says:

      Wise words as always Sue, why am I not surprised?

      Dan, as an ardent AW fan, I agree with you, but…and it is a BIG but…the time had come for Arsene to leave the club, not only from his point of view, but the clubs as well.
      The signs were there during the last two season, even though he pulled of the impossible with the FA cup win against chelsea – that’s when, in my opinion, he should have left and he says as much in his autobiography.

      It is always easy to judge AW on trophies, PL positions, top four and CL stats, he was our greatest ever manager and it was over two decades!!!
      I always smile when the heavy defeats come up whilst discussing his time as manager, but these awful results are never put in to perspective with the 1,235 games he was in charge…if we say he had eight humiliating defeats, that works out at 0.6% of the total amount. Let’s hope that MA has that kind of percentage during his time at our club.

      I look at it in a different way to you though Dan, in as much as eighteen years and twenty two years comparing trophies and final places is like chalk and cheese comparisions to me.

      What I see, is a manager who has come in, with our club in such a downward spiral, we were discussing relegation issues, player power, fan toxicity, players who were just not interested in playing and no idea of what our tactics were.

      This is what Arteta inherited and, although Wenger had to deal with the Bruce Rioch episode, his introduction had nothing like this to contend with.
      I disagree with the squad comparision, but that’s for another day.

      I believe that MA has taken care of every one of those issues he inherited in just ten months, a remarkable achievement in it’s own right…let alone winning two trophies in that time as well.
      He has rejuvenated the players and, most importantly, he has started to bring intwo top quality players, since he and Edu took control of transfers in and out.

      Now I’m not saying he hasn’t made mistakes, questionable signings and contract extensions, negative and defensive play, square pegs in round holes and the Mesut Ozil saga to name a few.
      His faith in the “senior players” is also questionable, as is his intransigence when playing them despite them letting him down….BUT DAN….couldn’t the above (apart from the Ozil and defensive play…substitute attacking play…) be equally applied to both MA and AW???

      My biggest concern is the fact that Mikel has just taken over the same workload that, in my opinion, was one of the reasons Arsene so nearly burnt himself out in the last two seasons.

      MA needs to be given to the end of the season, as a MINIMUM, to finish off what he has started and should receive the full backing of the fans – comparing him to anyone else is irrelevant and pointless, as AW has now been gone for three years and UE is making his point over in Spain.

      1. ken1945 says:

        eighteen months and twenty two years comparision – sorry!!!

        1. jon fox says:

          But right now Ken, MA has had only eleven months, so where do you find eighteen months from? Unless you meant UE, but when you said the above you had not mentioned UE, SO I FOR ONE AM PUZZLED WHAT YOU REFER TO!

          1. ken1945 says:

            Please see my answer to Kstix below Jon, that will explain the eighteen months.

      2. Fire says:

        Ken…

        A lovely, well constructed and solidly thought out piece of response! I have read a lot of responses, some quite a length, but a good and well reasoned response will captivate you from the beginning to the end, and yours did.

        The emotional outrage of our fan base following our loss to Aston Villa is understandable and more so because the lads failed to put in a fight in the least. But I have come to the realization that many do not seek to find out “why” certain things happen the way they do. Probably because they do not consider it as any of their business, since for them, it is only about watching a great match, win the game, and feel great all through the week. But we must always, and I repeat always apply thoughts to every event… And that’s very difficult to do for many…

        I cannot add much to all you have said, but I also lend my voice in support of Arteta, not because he gets it right always, but because his principles and processes are correct! And I will always stick with the right process instead of these vacillating outcomes that will rock you once in a while.

        One reason the world is an interesting place is because we humans are shielded from seeing the future. Instead, we are made to work it out. In hindsight, who could have predicted that Arsene would be successful when he took over Arsenal, not many I presume. However, those who saw the new processes, culture and attitude that Wenger brought in at the time into Arsenal could easily forecast that despite the blips, this man will be successful. I follow in the same light that Arteta is also following in the same correct path, he is changing the process aright, instilling a new culture with the required discipline, and I say without doubt that despite the blips he will be successful.

        Thanks again for that lovely response!

        Cheers!

        1. ken1945 says:

          Fire, thanks for your response.

          What I should have also included was the following:

          Just as Mikel Arteta was confronted and had to deal with a culture of player power, so did Arsene Wenger.

          He inherited a “drinking culture” that had been allowed to expand with such devastating consequences for the likes of Tony Adams and Paul Merson, let alone the kind of food being eaten by our players.

          Both managers met their individual player issues head on and overcame them and that is yet another reason why I see Mikel, in his first ten months, as being so much like Arsene and I hope the comparisons continue with the same amount of success!!!

          1. Fire says:

            Spot on Ken!

            We may never realize the implications of such subtle changes in the character, attitude, and approach of the team, but in the end, these are elements that usher in success. We all want instant success without due attention to the processes that produce it, and that remains the bane of the fan base.

            I feel for Arteta following this last result, but when I listened to his post match interview, I could only but renew my support for him…

            Thanks again Ken… Always a pleasure having such reasonable discussions with you…

            Cheers!

          2. SueP says:

            A really good to and fro between Ken and yourself

            I can’t believe that Arteta is having to face such levels of criticism in his first 11 months

            Have the doom brigade forgotten his achievements so soon? Unbelievable!

          3. Fire says:

            SueP…

            It truly baffles me too… But that’s the human character in its true nature… People will shout your glory when all is rosy and then shout “crucify him” when it goes contrary… But I have seen enough of Arteta in his young career to be convinced that he is and will be a great coach. Whether Arsenal fans will allow him achieve such greatness with them, only time will tell…

            He is intelligent and bold enough to make those difficult decisions, and such characteristics often herald success..

            Thanks for the complement as well! It’s always rewarding having such brilliant discussions with well-reasoning persons! And your posts are exemplary as well…

            Cheers!

        2. jon fox says:

          SO CHEERING TO FIND A REAL AND PROPER THINKER ON HERE WITH A KEEN INTELLECT. You may not be unique Fire, but you are in a VERY small minority, sadly!

          1. Fire says:

            Jon…

            Thanks for the complement! You would agree that there are “basically” three levels of questioning that often informs where the intellectualism of an individual resides… Those who ask or consider only the “what” question and then begin to react. In this group lies the majority, often at the bottom of the ladder. I am often not bother by this group because you can never have a successful intellectual discussion with them. They are rash and unchanging in their thoughts, opinions, and decisions. This group would only ask what happened in an Arsenal game and then flare up that we lost and jump into unreasoned conclusions… They often can’t analyse a game to know what, why, how things happened or operate.

            The next group, often smaller, strive to ask the “why” question. This group should be the minimum entry for many of us, if we intend to have a successful community… But sadly, you do not find this group easy to come by…

            Lastly, those who can venture to ask the “how” question… Those who transcend to this level often are creative minded people and they are the echelon.. They know what happened, why, and how it happens in all dimensions…

            Jon, we cannot be sad when very few persons exist in this group… It is meant for only a few, and we all should aspire to be in this group…

            We must always allow superior arguments to triumph from a collection of reasoned thoughts… And I hope that will be the desire of many reasoned fellows on this platform…

            As I said, I play chess a lot, which you are aware of, and I play the Karo-Khan, which begins with establishing a solid defence with great positional play before advancing to attack enemy positions… Maybe for this reason, I have been so delighted with Arteta, and may be that’s just a biased position of mine!

            How is your concluding part of the trilogy coming along? Stay safe!

            Cheers!

      3. Kstix says:

        This is why even though we disagree on one or two topics, you will always earn my respect Ken. You, Sue and Grandad are one of the best Arsenal fans I’ve seen ever. Well balanced view just like Sue’s before that.

        1. ken1945 says:

          Kstix, we have had many disagreements and you have, quite rightly, pulled me up when I have made mistakes – I always appreciate being told when I have got it wrong, because it educates me on our wonderful club.
          I’m not sure, but if you take out MO and the time AW should have left, we have similar views and I am certain both of us love our club with equal passion…and I ALWAYS read your posts thoroughly, so the feelings are mutual my friend!!!

          As Jon pointed out, I said eighteen months, but I should have made it clear that I meant the minimum time that MA should be judged on (as per UE) – so if you take until the end of next season, plus the time already here (taking out the virus months) that’s where I got the figure…should have been more concise once again.

          1. Kstix says:

            Spot on again Ken. Completely agree too. Always look forward to your comments

        2. Sue says:

          Aww, Kstix, what a sweetie!! 😊 You’d better place yourself on that list!! 😉

          1. Kstix says:

            I hope one day I can be as level headed as you guys are to be honest Sue. Maybe then, I can put my name there. 😊😉👍

  14. Stuart Jarman says:

    I agree to a point but people tend to forget Arsene Wenger presided over heavy defeats and forgets how important the history of our great club is Eihht conceded at Old Trafford Six at the Etihad and, Stamford Bridge and a few fives as well under Wenger In George Graham’s near nine seasons in charge highest we ever conceded in a league match was four and apart from a fluke 6-2 home league up defeat by Manchester United no big defers in Cup ties either People need to understand Arsenal are still historically the most famous club in England but are not going anywhere with likes of Ceballos Willian Elneny or Lacazette Too many average or players past their best

  15. lcw says:

    The buck stops with the owner. Arsenal is a poorly run organization.
    – Give away Mkhitaryan for nothing and get stuck with Willian for 3 years.
    – Spend 350k/week on Ozil and make him sit .
    – Let contracts expire and negotiate under the gun.
    – Not spend enough boney on quality players and top line coaches.
    – Create public relation nightmare by firing long term employees to save peanuts.

  16. Stuart Jarman says:

    Just a reminder up until Wengers era Arsenal were never regarded as a flair side but remained succesful In 1992/93 season Arsenal finished tenth in the league and scored omly forty league goals and that was with Ian Wright Alan Smith Kevin Campbell and the much over rated Paul Merson Arsenal scored nearly as many goals in Cup competition winning both F A Cup League Cup Arsenal need back Arteta and plash out in January for a creative midfielder and a proven striker Neither Lacazette or Nketiah are the answer Maybe time to give Balogun a chance and if he is not it let him go along with Lacazette and Nketiah and get a decent striker we need one now not in two or three years time

  17. Chella says:

    Thr are some negatives and positives in your post but again let’s evaluate everything when the season ends. Football is unpredictable, tomorrow it’s a different story. Your post today might not count tomorrow.

  18. Stuart Jarman says:

    We never lost at home to Chelsea by three under Ljungberg we lost 2-1 under Arteta last season Last time we lost at home in the league by four goals was in 1960/61 season to Wolves in fact in our history it’s only happened remarkably six times Biggest ever home defeat 0-5 v Huddersfield The recent Villa game could have eclipsed that

    1. Dan says:

      No I meant 3-0 to city under Freddie

  19. RSH says:

    So bottom line is we’re just losing to different teams now. Great. Because we were declining under AW too. Surely that must be admitted too. This article was inevitably going to be written and is written for any manager who has a bad result. The moment something goes wrong, “we should’ve never let [insert manager] leave!” Spuds fans did it with Pochettino, United fans have done it with essentially all their new managers, and now we are doing it with Arteta. Let’s see how Mikel reacts to this downturn before reminiscing about AW, and preferring 8-2 losses to United, over 3-0 losses to Villa.

    1. SueP says:

      RSH
      So many are so quick to judge
      It becomes more than post match disappointment in some cases

    2. Dan says:

      To be fair I said we regret letting Wenger go before he left

      1. SueP says:

        Dan
        An honest question here
        If Wenger had stayed would you still be seeing a club in decline like you feel it is now, or would his 2 years of EL qualification be replaced with the CL again?
        This is the salient point here.

        1. Dan says:

          Honestly Sue ( and just my opinion )
          We be challenging for top 4
          We never finish 8th
          There are just certain decisions he wouldn’t have made
          For example , I think Ramsey would have signed a new contract
          Ozil would be starting
          We be more attacking
          Sacrifice a defensive player for an offensive one
          And just little things like the 55 redundancies I think Would have been handled better
          Don’t get me wrong I like Arteta and support him.
          But it’s not fair when we lose 3-0 at home to Villa and say ‘ blame Wenger , it was happening under him ‘
          When it wasn’t
          The days a side 17th last season are winning 3-0 we should ask why

          1. SueP says:

            Oh! I wouldn’t blame Wenger for the loss against Villa Heaven forbid!
            I did think his time was up and believe me I think he was a truly great manager too. Personally speaking, he would have struggled to claw back those 2 EL years but your support for him is steadfast and that’s fair enough

          2. Dan says:

            Yeah and I want to be so proven wrong
            To be honest my view has always been anti koronke
            I go by the logic the more ambitious the more ambitious the owner , better your chance
            If you look at Koronkes ambition since he joined Arsenal , I find it hard to see how we could win title
            Even those who argue last couple of years he’s invested ( which I argue he hasn’t)
            It’s years too late

          3. SueP says:

            Kroenke has no ambition for Arsenal ☹️

    3. Dan says:

      Again you missed my point
      The argument is find me under Wenger when a side outside top 4 were winning 3-0 at Emiraites
      So you pick 8-2 at Old Trafford ?

      1. Stuart Jarman says:

        Arsenal had more heavy defeats under Wenger than any other manager in a short space of time Despite the good signings Wenger made apart from Sol Campbell Kolo Toure and Lauren majority of Wengers defensive signings were either poor choices injury prone or in insistent and that includes likes of Koscielny Vermaelen Gallas etc

        1. Dan says:

          so to clarify
          apart from building a defense that went a whole season undefeated Mr Wenger couldn’t build a defense ?

  20. UNCLE JOSH says:

    Match against AV is utterly unacceptable, tell the manager and the players in clear terms but fire them up by your faith in them. Wenger gone, stop reference. UE gone, stop reference. MA first full season, support him and judge at the end of the season and if Arsenal drops to relegation zone before season end, sack him.

  21. herbs of the earth says:

    Folk,

    A lot of us are getting this thing wrong. I always remind people to drop the emotions and stick to the facts.
    1. The timing of Wenger’s leave was poor.
    2. The succession preparation for his leave was worse.
    3. The excuse for him going worst.

    When there is no succession planning you usually get into trouble. I am not a betting man, I believe in the hard cold facts. I live by statistics as they tell me the probability of success if I input X or Y in an equation. Life has no certainty. If you operate a club the way we do you must expect the results we get. A football club requires management who can see results over generations. But our people see dollars without sense. Do not get stuck with the pun. The point is they cannot present a page of ontological security or long term security for us fans. Under Wenger they were spoilt. Arsenal did well despite the owners. Football has changed. Wenger’s economic and football genius got swamped by super-agents and inflation manipulation. Quick change (rather than long-term looking) Arsenal missed the boat. Rather than try to fix it as they see it looming on the horizon, they sucked it dry and then leave you to fight for the scraps. Ideally, from about 2014 Arsenal should have had Wenger grooming someone; or start the process of replacing him. Instead, his leave was a disgrace, fueled by Youtubers, ignorant fans and quick cash owners.

    Come on when you change a genius to “Good ebing” all the persons involved should be ashamed – including the “Wenger-out” fans. They remind me of people who attack abusive police and ignore the state that send them on the streets. Unfortunately, MA must try to rebuild, and it is easier to build a house than repair one eaten by termites – and this house is badly eaten out.

    Dan is saying that you need to accept the nastiness that happened. I agree, you must. I heard you with your stupidities. We were all here watching people get rich off your attacks on the wrong target. If you can accept the damage done, you can appreciate the immense task MA has and stop the stupid shameful dreams. I can just see in the hypocritical and naïve minds of some of you. Wenger was so poor. We are glad he is gone. Good Ebing was just an error. We now have MA. He is going to make top 4. Then you wake up and realize you had eaten too late and forced too much acid up your brain.

    So I shall say it again. We are in the process of repairing the immense damage some of you participated in. This damage resulted from keeping Wenger around just for money – rather than not planning his succession 4 years earlier. This would have been respectful and successful. You were used to push him out after he was used for extra time picnic. This repair will be expensive. Notice that the Club now uses more money to buy less talented players? It will take time – and may God help MA who is caught up in it. My verdict is that you should wake up. Get woke and sensible and stop dragging Wenger into this. You cannot make him less than who he was – his time is past. Concentrate on the shirt – minus the R that was created. Let’s clean up. MA is creating a spine now. He needs to examine the mid-field. They say they need to exile Ozil. MA needs to find a make shift #10. God help us.

  22. Sid says:

    I agree with the article whole-heartedly. But I would add that we started going backwards when Mr. Ivan became a part of our club in 2014, I guess. Or even earlier when Mr. Dein left the club in 2008. From then on the standards were affected by both the mind boggling changes in the football financial and operations scenario as well as our debt and inept dealings. Mr. Arsene Wenger was a genius no doubt, but faced with these situations and bogged down somewhat by his own stubbornness, the most he could do was give us FA Cup wins. I guess 2015 was a false dawn, when we nearly had a chance of a domestic double but blew it. Also, I am not sure if it is true, but I think we got Olympiacos in the round of 16 in the Champions league, a perfectly winnable tie on paper and blew it. In my opinion, the search for a successor should have started from there. But that’s not what happened and now we face ourselves in this situation. But I think patience would help us at this juncture because as Mr. Ken says, MA’s arrival kind of lowkey mirrors AW’s arrival and the problems he faced and how he has taken on them so far.
    So, yes we are backwards since AW left, but we were already going backwards even in his charge, and its not about those humiliating defeats, its a combo of many factors that made us unable to compete. I hope under MA we get back to where we belong, but we are definitely not what we think we are at the moment with all the issues that we still need to deal with.

    1. Ngilalo says:

      Spoken

  23. Simon E says:

    We’ve been struggling for years – whether it’s under investment while we were paying for the stadium or (in my opinion) the departure of David Dean – whatever it is it started under Wenger and has continued.
    But here’s the thing… All clubs lose a great manager. Utd lost Ferguson and look at them since! An absolute shambles. Liverpool lost Dalglish and didn’t win a title for 30 years. Only the clubs with serious money who can afford to hire the world’s best have kept it going when a manager leaves- City, Chelsea.
    We need to stop wingeing and re-build. In Gabriel, Partey we have the start of a “spine”. We need the next striker – Auba is great but he’s 30 something and has started to lose a yard of pace. Is it Nketiah? – love Eddie but certainly not world class. Ditto Nelson. Pepe could be world class if he can learn to kick with his right foot – but he’s not a centre forward. Saka – like what I’m seeing – again not a centre forward. So there’s a transfer need. AML, Willock, Nelson, Elneny, Xhaka – all average. We won’t win the premier league with average players. This isn’t an overnight fix – Arteta needs time and money.

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