Is it me or are some trying to downplay what Arsene Wenger achieved at Arsenal? Which is strange because normally time is kind on a person’s legacy.
Graeme Souness was once one of the better pundits around but has got to an age where he’s starting to sound bitter.
Of course, he’s entitled to his opinion, but it is worth stressing he seemed angry on various topics throughout the latest episode of Three Up Front.
If he wasn’t so proud, he might wake up tomorrow and concede he just wasn’t in a good mood.
Simon Jordan and Troy Deeney were truly baffled when they were told that Mr Wenger was not a ‘football man’ and was simply ‘lucky’ to inherit a back 4 and Bergkamp, and that he happened to have knowledge of the French market while the country were producing a golden generation
His two co-hosts are not immune to crazy remarks themselves, so for them to be shocked you know you’re in the minority.
Let me clarify all are entitled to their own point of view but there truly are holes in his thought process.
Given the player he was, you think out of the trio he’s the most qualified to know that winning any league is more than ‘luck’.
It takes not just quality, but mental strength and team spirit to be the most consistent team over an entire campaign.
Look how good we been over the past two years, yet failed to get over the line. Shouldn’t that remind us all how hard it is to be Champions and mean we shouldn’t take for granted the 10 trophies Mr Wenger won?
Whether Mr Souness’ managerial career is questioned, he rightly points out he won silverware wherever at 4 places he coached. Yet he wants to downplay one of his peers winning 10 prizes in 22 years.
You would think Souness would have more empathy of how difficult it is to survive at a big club, the pressure at Liverpool impacting his health.
That’s not a cheap shot it’s just bizarre that a man who flopped at one of England’s giants would belittle the most successful boss in the history of another institution in the UK.
He doesn’t do irony…
It’s also wrong for the Scot to wrongly educate a generation.
Yes, Mr Wenger inherited our famous back 5 but he also walked into a drinking culture at the club, a serious issue for a couple of players.
A decent Cup side, it had been years since we challenged for the title. Look at where that defence was finishing in the years before Mr Wenger and where they were finishing once he arrived.
It’s also not true.
The Invincibles is our greatest achievement yet none of the famous back 5 were around at this point.
You don’t go a whole season undefeated if you can’t build your own defence. You certainly need more then luck.
Souness cited Mr Wenger’s refusal to say much at half time as a weakness. Yet how many legends have said this was a positive as it was trusting the team to find solutions?
It’s true that Mr Wenger didn’t always follow the traditions of the sport in Britain.
Many of his opponents would accuse Mr Wenger of being the worst at socializing, not popping into the office for a post-match drink of wine with his opponent.
Yet being anti-social has nothing to do with tactics and systems. It’s simply a man from a different culture.
I’m sure when working In Italy, Turkey and Portugal Mr Souness didn’t follow every ritual.
He doesn’t need to like Mr Wenger, but the Frenchman has earned the right to be respected.
It’s clear he gave his life to the game, putting his wife and children second.
It’s known that there wasn’t much outside the footballing bubble, his passion almost obsessive.
To say he wasn’t a football man almost belittles his whole story
Souness also cited being on the touchline bemused by what he would hear on our bench. Yet let’s just say Mr Wenger’s record against Mr Souness wasn’t too shabby….
Dan
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That’s a lot of luck, isn’t it? And over nearly 20 years. If there was luck involved it was probably Manure’s but that’s another story. Anyway it’s a ridiculous bit of nonsense commentary coming from a man whose longest sustained managerial success contributed towards helping send Rangers into receivership.
Does it matter what Mr Souness thinks? He’s entitled to his opinion of course but that’s all it is in the end – his opinion.
Matters to you though else you wouldn’t have read article and commented lol
Not really, as I didn’t bother (unlike other posts) to go into a great rebuttal of his comments. As I said, it’s his opinion and nothing posted here will change it.
The fact you clicked on title to read article and comment means you care
Yes you got wrong end of stick
I said in the years before we had been a good cup team but were no longer challenging for league
So idea that Souness suggests that Mr Wenger was successful because of what he inherited is not true
It was his tactics and dietary , training methods
Not really, as I didn’t bother (unlike other posts) to go into a great rebuttal of his comments. As I said, it’s his opinion and nothing posted here will change it.
But by commenting you have lol
Dan
Have I got the wrong end of the stick and misunderstood your point about lack of success before AW arrived? The way I read it implied that there was precious little success.
Forgetting Rioch, George Graham won -: the League Cup and FA cup double in 92/93
93/94 UEFA Cup winners cup
1986 League Cup
88/89 First division
90/91 First Division
That said, I have only admiration for Wenger’s achievements at Arsenal. It was fabulous football and he changed the course of football in England. Magic. They were great times going to Highbury. Getting a ticket didn’t involve jumping through hoops and it was awesome watching the likes of Anelka. Not really sure what made Souness say what he did but his success on the pitch outweighed his career as a manager
Great article Dan – I’m afraid that, as time passes, Mr Wenger’s time at our club, will become a distant memory… just as Mr Graham’s legacy (as SueP pointed out above) has become.
For those of us who were lucky enough to have lived through both AW and GG’s time, nothing any pundit might say in a negative way, will remember how great it was to go to Highbury, knowing what we were about to see was going to be football at its finest, especially under Arsene.
I assume this nonsense was during a Talksh*** programme?
That would sum up its irrelevance for any sound thinking football fan.
Yeah on YouTube mate
Funny how you have bypassed George Graham , Dan. Where was the lack of success? Just for the record and unless AW has a love child – he has one child not children.
As he lived nearby to me, he was frequently seen dining in local restaurants with David Dein and was well known for the thoroughness of his preparation.
Already answered the question Sue
So if someone asks do you have children , you say , ‘ no , I have a child ‘
Keep trying lol
I like sounness, but this is a ridiculous option.. Everybody needs a bit of luck to be successful, and sure Arsene Wenger inherited some brilliant players, but we wouldn’t have had that level of success without Arsene Wenger either – he had to manage those players and convince them to follow him, otherwise we’d have won nothing and he wouldn’t have lasted.
Also, the invincibles side was almost entirely players he’d bought and/or developed – only bergkamp was still a regular by that season, I think. It was an entirely new defence, including a midfielder Wenger convinced to play RB and a wildcard unknown player who started off in midfield and ended up at CB alongside sol Campbell.
And don’t forget asking Henry a left winger to be a striker
That’s not luck , that’s genius
He put Henry back to his natural position, nothing genius about that.
He’d played left wing since his time at Monaco, and presumably was still a winger when he won the world cup. Maybe genius is hyperbolic but he believed in Henry as a striker when many others wouldn’t have.
He played on the right wing at Monaco and for France in the ’98 World Cup. While at Juventus he played right midfield and right wingback.
I have to say, I didn’t see anything of him before he joined arsenal, so I accept he may have played other positions, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the point that he wasn’t a striker until he joined arsenal.
Your wrong ….again lol
You keep proving my theory
Nope, it’s you that are wrong 😁.
What theory would that be ?
Henry signed professional forms with Monaco, and made his professional debut on 31 August 1994, in a 2–0 loss against Nice.[11] Although Wenger suspected that Henry should be deployed as a striker, he put Henry on the left wing
Henry when he signed for Arsenal
‘ I played my whole career as a winger …
I won a World Cup as a winger ….
Now you want me to be a striker ‘
Again I question how an Arsenal fan wouldn’t know that ?
You have done the impossible Dan by winning a debate against someone who make things up ans stand by them when it comes to Wenger.
It’s very difficult arguing with HD because he make something up and if you refute it he makes up another to defend the previous one.
Those who argue based on facts are limited with what they can say but those who make things up the sky is the limit.
The great Thierry Henry didn’t know that he used to be a striker but Herr Dier did 😂😂😂
Yeah I saw the pattern …
Last week a Leicester player was apparently on a yellow card when he saw a bad tackle in the first half and he wanted to know why this wasn’t a second yellow ( suggesting a conspiracy )
……. The Leicester player got booked in the …..second half lol
Yes, I made a mistake, which I acknowledged, which is something you fail to do.
HH, what have I made up ?
He played one first team game on the left wing at Monaco before Wenger was sacked. Tigana then took over and Henry played on the right wing, where he won the French League. His form on the right wing earned him a place in the French national team, where he won the World Cup in ’98. Although he didn’t play in the final, he still finished the tournament as the French top scorer, from the right wing.
I bet you believe it was just a coincidence that Henry and Wenger met on a plane before his transfer from Juventus to The Arsenal.
Btw, get information from wiki is laughable, considering anyone can alter it 😂
I’m confused
Do you even know what your arguing ?
You said Wenger only moved him to his natural position but then say that he played on wing for Monoco and Juventus
Therefore admitting it was at Arsenal he played as a striker?
I know exactly what I’m on about. As a kid in Paris, at Clairefontain and for Monaco reserves, he was a striker. That was his natural position. So all Wenger did when signing him from Juve was to revert him back to a striker 🙄.
So as a senior professional player he’s only played as a striker for Arsenal
Lol
No, he played in many positions, but when signing for The Arsenal, Wenger put him back to his natural position, duh. Please keep up.
And mate here are the players he didn’t inherit ….
Henry
Wiltord
Kanu
Vanperise
Sanchez
Ozil
Fabregas
Petit
Silva
Overmars
Ljungberg
Lauren
Campbell
Toure
Nasri
Heleb
Sagna
Cliicy
To name a few
That’s not luck
👍 definitely not just luck
Davi, Martin Keown really deserves a lot of credit for Kolo moving to CB, as it was his idea.
But Wenger listened to keown – that’s not nothing. And he bought kolo after he clattered him on his trial 🤣
Yep, credit to Wenger for listening to MK. Shame he couldn’t give MK credit for it though.
Did anyone ask him to then HD?
If they did, what was his answer?
Ken, the interview was on the clubs Invincible Season DVD. MK said it was his idea to play Kolo at CB, the camera then went to AW and he said nothing about it.
After leaving us he still played in the PL for Middlesbrough, as well as in Europe for them.
Parlour? Yes but he was nowhere near a starter for us when he left. He’d become a squad player – important for them invincibles season, but not part of the first team that Wenger had assembled
He started only a few less games than DB10 in the PL in the Invincible season. So would you class DB10 as just a squad player during that glorious season ?
Davi, you forgot Parlour. He was involved in over half of the PL games that season.
I didn’t realise he played so many games but tbf they did have to cover a lot of injuries that season if I remember rightly (which is definitely questionable). He did leave the following year, so was on his last legs at the top level.
Ridiculous opinion*
You don’t win ten trophies and consistently finish in the top four by being lucky. That’s a ludicrous statement meant for clicks and arguments they are constantly taking swipes at Arsenal anytime we are doing well, and they try to rile AFC fans and downplay us Last week it was Saka’s, not world-class fine if you believe that but why not just say he’s one hell of a dangerous player who opponents fear because they double up and treble up on him and yet he still delivers Like Arsene with great football and trophies he has delivered
Could someone please inform Graeme, that there is no such thing as “luck” in football. Just sayin…🤔
NY_Gunner, your VERY lucky if Mr Oliver sees things one game, then ignores them when the same two clubs meet again!!
@ken1945
Point taken Ken…😂
NYG, one could say we were lucky in the home game against Portsmouth to get the penalty in the Invincible season.
@Herr Drier
Another good point HD…😂
Well, by reading all these responses, it seems Mr Souness achieved his goal of making himself relevant again.
Like most of these pundits, making outrageous comments is vital to their existence.
What is worse, I believe, is responding to them in the Pavlovian way shown by you all!!
So why have YOU responded?
Not a football man? – from player to successful manager, to now FIFA’s Chief of Global Football Development. It would be hard to imagine a more football man – his entire life!
While it seems only Talks***e wants to involve Souness in any conversation about football.