Noni Madueke played 48 times last season in a campaign where the Gunners lifted the title and reached their second-ever Champions League Final. Whatever happens in the rest of his career, no one can take that away from the player; he earned his medal, and his part in the club’s proud history will live forever.
Given the 24-year-old then started four games at the World Cup, you could argue few players as limited have achieved such accolades.
Are managers beginning to lose faith in Madueke?
It’s not like the attacker represents a nation with limited options.
While Thomas Tuchel stressed he wanted a Three Lions squad with alternative options, many English fans would have had more faith in Palmer to produce a moment of magic or trusted Foden in the final third.
England’s boss would have identified Madueke’s pace as a useful weapon off the bench, especially against tired defenders in the heat.
I have often compared him to Eboue in being a talent who can knock the ball past his full-back and win the race, but then you could flip a coin in terms of his final ball. An extra touch is taken when it’s not needed, a cross is essentially smashing the ball and hoping for the best, and too often there is this horrible habit of running the ball out of play.
Yet Mikel Arteta must have known all of this when he authorised nearly £50 million to be spent on the winger from Chelsea?
The same strengths and flaws were evident at Stamford Bridge, so the assumption was our manager felt he could coach the player to become better.
At his age, that can still happen, but it’s increasingly looking likely that his footballing intelligence will not develop and that those he works for are losing faith.
Trossard, Martinelli, Jesus, Nelson and Nwaneri have all left the Emirates this summer, yet despite less competition this campaign, Madueke is still struggling to start in the league. An unused substitute at Brighton, a 16-year-old was ahead of him in the pecking order.
Could a January loan already be considered?
He will have the next three weeks off after not being called up for England’s Nations League fixtures. Not many fully fit players go from starting the quarter-final of a World Cup to being dropped entirely two months later.
So, could that be one of his bosses giving up on him?
His boss in North London has a history of washing his hands of talent the moment he thinks they no longer suit his ethos, even if it hurts the club financially. That’s why rumours have begun regarding a loan move in January, because few will pay what we paid on top of his wages.
A loan 18 months after such an investment would represent terrible business.
It’s not like there has been a serious injury or loss of form.
It’s like Madueke is a competition winner who has got away for years with being paid thousands of pounds to play on the biggest stage, safe in the knowledge that no one would notice he has no business at this level.
Mikel Arteta and Tuchel are two of the highest-paid managers in the UK. Why it took them this long to notice is a question for another day.
Dan Smith
What do you think, Gooners? Has Noni Madueke simply hit a difficult spell, or is Dan right to question whether Arsenal and England are beginning to lose faith in him?
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As far as Madueke is concerned, I wanted to judge him at the end of this season. The same goes for 2 more underwhelming players in the past year in Eze and Gyokeres (despite his goals and work-rate last season).
This is only possible if him and Gyokeres are given chances especially as Saka & Havertz are not pulling up any trees.
I am not talking about yesterday’s match as I did not see it (only saw the highlights and post match interviews and thus cannot comment), but just seeing the comments from the other posters.
I believe Arteta and Tuchel were just disappointed by Madueke’s inaccurate shots and crosses
Madueke is still Saka’s main competitor, not Dowman. The teenager was assigned in Odegaard’s position in the Carabao Cup game
I think Arteta and Tuchel will still give Madueke more chances, because no English inverted RW possesses his great dribbling skills
I’d be surprised if Arsenal ship him off in January, since Saka and Dowman have been struggling on the right wing
He is basically back up for Saka? Could we get anyone better? I doubt it. Personally, I thought he should have replaced a non effective Saka and Tzolis, with Dowman against Brighton at half time.
Then why buy the guy?
I think he will be gone in the Summer, or he should be.
“Competition” for Saka is being far too kind, however, with Saka’s recent form and missed sitters, maybe it is right after all.
Noni is a passenger, has been since he arrived. Definitely not a starter, and his competition is fighting on Dowman and Nwanarei, forget about Saka.
If we want to strengthen the weakest part on the pitch, the attack, then we need a LW and a better backup winger than Noni.
I don’t think Saka has been better than Madueke for a long while. Why pick on Madueke, he isn’t first choice to Saka?
oh Saka has been better
and of course we can buy better then Maduake, he’s poor
Disagree on both counts. Who better will come as back up? Dreaming He is a league winner and International, who else would come?better?
Saka so far has been poor.
what area has Maduake been better at ?
What area has Saka?
scoring goals and assists
Well he has played and Madueke hasn’t, so he will have, but still been poor.
Do you think Saka against Brighton was good?
Reggie, I concur with your question on who would come that’s better. Imo, at the moment, no one is the answer. If Mikel stays and we keep on winning big trophies, then thats when better players will come.
Look, Madueke and Gyokores are being questioned and rightfully so, but we won the league with them in their first season, we hadn’t done that for 20 plus years and they both played a good part of the season.
We lost against Brighton badly but both those players were not involved until Gyokores came on and gifted Haverz with a chance. But we have an Article about Madueke being “found out” ? I think a lot more were found out against Brighton, thats the real question? It was diabolical and Madueke was nowhere to be seen?
As I posted, I concur with you Reggie.
that’s because he wasn’t trusted to come on
the article is more focused on him being dropped by England as it’s the international break
You could say the same about those dropped by Tuchel for the WC
yeah but I think ( and said at the time it was a mistake )
a Palmer and Foden are better and have better career then Maduake
I think Tuchel picked him for his pace but the issue is no end product
Yes but Sue is correct and you have just waffled.
Saka has been terrible for a while, but Arteta is not ruthless enough to drop him as an underperformer. Same can be said of Havertz, how he made it past halftime is a question for science.
Unfortunately, Madueke and Gyokeres both have been collecting rust, so when any chance comes, how sharp and proper can they be?
Plenty of people overlooking a dreadful Saka and Havertz reverting back to his true form.
I hope Arteta is as understanding and patient with Gyokeres and Madueke as he has been with Saka and Havertz, however evidence does not point to this based on past history.
For all his faults ,having sold Martinelli, Trossard and Jesus, we simply cannot afford to send Madueke out on loan.Personally,i feel Madueke could be more productive on the left as we simply cannot expect Tzolis to start every game in such a tough League.While Madueke lacks composure and his decision making is lacking, you cannot fault him for a lack of effort, which is not something I can say when it comes to the equally costly Eze who’s inclusion in the England squad amazes me.
Trossard is by far the biggest miss of the 3 but yesterday non would have made a difference, it was deeper than that. And not as simplistic. Our tactics got exposed.
Are you saying this is because Arteta got it all wrong or was it in fact one of those days when it actually is just a bad day at the office? I’ve only seen snippets but most clubs will have an equivalent cock up at some point in the season. I’m interested in your opinion Reggie rather than some of the overreactions after one away loss to the team currently in 3rd place.
I also read we had a chance of going unbeaten , setting a defensive record and getting the points record
So to be fair the overreaction works both ways
Strange intervention Dan. I wasn’t sure if it was a bad day or if Arteta got it wrong on the day . You seem to be calling out others in a roundabout way for having expressed opinions at various times about going unbeaten etc etc. That was not the aim of my post to Reggie at all. It was a case of a bad day or something being fundamentally wrong
I was simply responding to your point about overreactions pointing out it applies both ways
Like most things the truth is in the middle
It might help us in the long run ?
The truth is, the exact same person you are crediting with doing the right thing and dropping Madueke, did the wrong thing in dropping Palmer and Arnold and leaving us short. So not a great role model to chose. If he did the wrong thing dropping those two, why has he done the right thing dropping Madueke. For me, he doesn’t know what he is doing. But you think he does.
Sue, the team was unexplainably poorand Arteta was shell shocked and unable to react. There were things not working from the ger go, he didn’t react. I hope its a wake up call.
He does get the ball from box to box, it’s the finishing that’s the problem, but this is to do with coaching.
Thinking about y’day, it’s no use people saying Brighton were brilliant, they’re a mid level team missing half their best players, we could’ve been beaten by anyone yesterday. It’s no use people saying oh these things happen, things don’t just happen, there is a reason. Then I got to thinking, was it last year or the year before, when we went through that dreadful run around the international break, where we lost to West Ham at home and wolves and someone else, maybe Fulham. Maybe it is the international break more on their minds than the Arsenal game? I don’t know, but if that is the case, the ones on international break either need to be dropped and replaced with those not going, which is precious few, or told they’re not going unless they perform at home (not sure if that can be enforced).
Nono is all sizzle and no steak but Saka has not performed at his best for a couple of seasons now.
Noni
Typo ‘Noni’
Eboue is an interesting comparison – definitely get it, but think it’s a bit harsh on madueke. I barely remember eboue playing well at all out on the wing; tbf he was only there because sagna took the rb spot and rarely got injured, and he looked a good attacker from the fullback position. It just didn’t work when he moved to midfield.
While I do find madueke to be underwhelming, he does play well relatively often, much more often than he gets credit for, and does cause dangerous situations. Even when he doesn’t play well, his physical presence is useful. I don’t know how he gets near the England team, but I do think he’s a useful squad player.
Madueke has pace but little else. He cannot pick out a pass or create space. He is most effective against a slower full back and can put his pace to use.
He is NOT a creative midfielder like a Pires or Giggs which is exactly what we need. I was just surprised and disappointed that we spent so much money on him. He is really not a great footballer. Sorry.
Tuchel dropped Palmer and Arnold for the WC, if he got that right, why is he calling them back up? Strange you should quote a manager as a choice, of opinion, for choosing or not choosing players, when he obviously dropped some selection clangers himself? And arguably England lost the game where Madueke wasn’t involved and he still gets the blame. He wasn’t involved in our only defeat but you choose to pick him out, Strange again!!!
I find comparing Madueke, a RW, with Eboue, a RB, strange. A better comparison imo be Madueke and the Klingon, Gervinho. Both are/were wingers, both missed open goals and both kicked the ball to hard past the FB with the ball going our for a goalkick.
With a named squad of 22 players, I can’t see anyone leaving in January unless a replacement is brought in.
It just shows you how mad football has gone regards transfer fee’s.
How many poster’s on JA, on reading that Arsenal have paid £50M for a wide player. Would then expect said player to be able to beat his man and either score a goal, or produce an assist.
Both things which Madueke fails to do on a consistent basis. Surely when you see you’re club pay £50M for a player. You’d think you’re getting a player that’s the finished article, or at least not far off it anyway.
Just to add, I’m not convinced by Arsenal’s attack full stop. There is something not right, and it’s been there quite a while if we’re honest.
While the defense and midfield have been addressed, the attack certainly hasn’t in my opinion.
I wrote in the summer
weakening our attack could cost us
why I couldn’t believe yesterday there was chat of invincibles and record points in history of Prem
now it’s asked who’s better then Maduake?.
Think some think players are better then they are
I dare say there are players better than Madueke, but would they come to The Arsenal while Saka is here ?
Dan. Far too harsh on Noni. Far too harsh.
There’s easily a £50M rotation player in there, it’s about getting it out, and that means playing time and rhythm. To cover Saka’s absences should not mean Noni can’t start games with Saka. I think he should play left more often. I know it’s not the modern way to have a left footer on the left, but he just looks natural and more threatening on the left than the right.
There is something wrong with Arteta, taking an age putting Skelly in the middle, not using Noni left more often. And not using Norgarrd at all.
But where you are saying a particular player is rubbish, I instead say his role at this club and use by manager is making him look less than good. Where you pick on a player, I sense in the bigger picture it’s how MA has Arsenal playing this season – in particular there’s not much movement attacking the box, there’s not many bodies getting in the box – if Noni on left zinged in great cross, there’s might be 2, there might be 1, there might not be anyone in there to get in end of it.
If Noni moved from support player here to starting every week for a Leeds or Everton, and got into a rhythm, you’d see a better player than many who moved for £70M+ in the last window. Same with Eze. Same with Skelly.
For we may want to criticise how our players are playing, I think we must first look at the bigger set up how MA sets up Arsenal this season and has them playing. It’s still tippy tappy, slow, it’s not direct enough. We are not looking to quickly put crosses in, because we are not looking to push bodies in there to get on end of crosses.
I think we need to work Kai, Gyokeres and Odegaard into a starting 11 combination, playing Kai as an inverted wide forward seems the most obvious way of doing that. It’s not our attack been weakened in numbers why we look toothless compared to free scoring rivals like Man City, as we couldn’t have played everyone anyway, but we are not making best use of what we do have available.
Noni is frustrating. He can look brilliant and not like he can’t produce end product. Just not reliably, and seems a little one-dimensional.
Arteta sees these guys in training day in, day out. If he’s not deploying them or “playing to their strengths” perhaps it’s because he feels they can’t be relied upon (e.g. Gyokeres with his 43% possession loss rate).
I still pine for Trossard, he was very reliable, versatile – had a great season for us last year.
“ not like he can’t produce end product. Just not reliably, and seems a little one-dimensional.”
You posted that straight after my explanation – Noni’s end product seems 100% the complaint against him. But he’s playing for a manager and playing style that is not direct – crosses don’t come in as who’s attacking the box? MA wants control and possession – so what sort of end product are you expecting from Noni in such a system?
All the criticism of all our wingers over last few years – and Martinelli got loads! – how much of it is Arsenal don’t play direct football, they are ordered not to play direct.
Also to be fair – Arsenal face low block every match. It’s easier for all our strikers to catch the eye if playing for Sunderland, Brighton, Everton etc or in Europe as who plays low blocks against those sides.
Madueke is just another Gervinho…flicks and tricks but no end product. Kind of headless chicken running around…Time to go.Time to sell Madueke, Zubimendi, White, Eze, Havertz and invest in 2 great wingers and a deadly number 9.Enough is enough, too many passengers on deck. PS-keep Gyokeres, he’s a good attacker, far above Bambi-Havertz….
Sorry whoever coaches him Madueke can only make marginal, unrecognisable progress. He lacks self confidence. At certain point I sense Madueke Eze Nwaneri were used as makeweights to ensure the longevity of Saka at Arsenal
This is overly negative. Madueke is 24 not 35. There are things missing from his game but it is not too late for him to make significant improvements.
5 Arsenal players this time represent England. I’m surprised Eze is included.
Not surprised Chelsea and Palmer have withdrawn him from international friendly season to save him for Chelsea.
Up yours daft England manager. 🙂
This Chelsea without injured Palmer unthinkable – protecting him for Chelsea starts their only option.
This Chelsea side
Rice is out of the squad
Whilst we sit back and criticise form of players, we can overlook the injuries they are playing through, sometimes with injections. At what point leading up to, during and after World Cup have Saka and Rice been soldering on free from pain and problems?
Injections frowned on in modern game as it masks issues the specialists need to sort out properly.
Not many fans know Dec had a few months a couple of years ago where he was criticised for bad form, but was playing on with a broken foot. I blame Arteta – he needs to be firmer with Rice not playing to be kinder to Rice.
People don’t realise the sensible extra care Newcastle took with Isak. He was excused all contact training. The club also specially made a set of pyjama’s from cotton wool for him, and built a Giant’s Castle sized chest of drawers to keep him in between matches.
😂. On a serious note, Saka was clearly not fully fit last season and I wonder if he’s up to speed now. Rice is another one you mentioned who has been playing through the pain barrier as well as a huge number of games for club and country
Rice – 69 for club and country last year, on top of high loads previous seasons too. Common knowledge now Rice in pain from long running back and hamstring issues and taking pain killing injections to play. Saliba long running back problem too, he was taking that issue into matches for France and us till it finally broke.
Tuchel spoke during World Cup about Rice and Saka injuries and pain, which Arteta never does. We learnt more from Norway and French managers about our injured players than from our own club too.
We all do a lot of praying when our players go off for internationals, actually learning about our players injuries that we would never get to know otherwise is the only worthwhile bit.
Moon Girl,
If these players are carrying injury’s as you say, then what are they doing playing in the first place. Eventually the injury’s will catch up with them. And then they could be out for months.
Any really good suggestions as replacements Derek bearing in mind our expectations each year? With several players considered not good enough anyway in some quarters, Arteta wouldn’t be able to field a team without scores of complaints Our injury issues involved not only the ones out of action but those having to play more and more, which was compounded by Arsenal reaching the later stages of every competition they entered. I’d say that Arsenal are suffering from this and WC games. City regularly started the season slowly
SueP,
I get you’re point, but you’re just asking for trouble if you keep playing through the pain barrier. Eventually it will catch up with you.
A perfect example is one of you’re favorite players, Ben White. Now up until lets say the first half of last season his injury record was quite good. But then in the second half of last season I believe I’m right in saying that he was then playing with a knee problem.
Which in the end he succumbed to and had to have an operation, now have a look at what’s happening to him. Every time you see him in training he’s got a strapping around the knee, he’s constantly picking up niggles now. And remember he was a constant in the side for a long time.
So it’s all very well these players soldiering on, bit in the end it catches up with them. And he’s not the only example at our club either.
Oh I agree Derek but all of it comes at a cost. I suppose we either miss out on winning something to protect them further or they brave it out and break down
Both Saka and Madueke have been poor, I’d sell Madueke and bench Saka if his form continues like this, we need quality on both flanks, I’m not convinced Tzolis is an upgrade on Trossard and Martinelli.
Dave – I point you to what I just posted at 1.01pm.
Are we quick to blame our wingers, when the system and their orders, curtails them from being the dynamic direct player?
How dynamic is your car with its handbrake on?
Moon Girl,
I’m pretty sure when Madueke gets the ball wide there is no hand break on. Do you honestly think that Arteta doesn’t want to see Madueke take his man on and get crosses into the box.
While I acknowledge that you’re point regards the system Arteta plays may not be helping some, that still doesn’t excuse Madueke’s constant bad decision making regards his final ball. That’s all his own work, and nothing to do with Arteta.
“ Do you honestly think that Arteta doesn’t want to see Madueke take his man on and get crosses into the box.”
Well. Yes. I do believe we are seeing that. That is exactly what I am saying. There is a clear difference between direct and less direct football.
12 months ago, Gary Neville – don’t know if you have heard of him, gobby football commentator banned from Nottingham Forest – said we will never go from runners up to Champions, by keeping the handbrake on. Mentions of handbrake less since we became champions, but our style of football is no different. If anything Arteta is doubling down on keep ball and ball retention, and “walk ball in net” football.
About a year ago Pep said something like – football will now change, it will become less about possession and more direct. The brand of football City are playing this season is hugely direct compared to ours. What is particular chalk and cheese these last few weeks, is number of City players attacking the box from deep off the ball, running expecting cross or pass, compared to Arsenal.
My point being, we actually can’t do a pass or cross if no one is going to be there. Against Brighton, chasing a game, we were repeatedly putting balls in the box with no one there for it. You intellectually and mechanically cannot pass to someone who isn’t there. You see there isn’t anyone there, so you don’t cross or pass, you turn back and keep possession going.
Playmaking – Passing and crossing is only 50% about the passer, they need a receiver. If the game plan doesn’t have people running off ball into the box, or into space, crosses and passes ain’t going to happen.
Hence I keep pushing, Gyokeres and Havertz both in starting eleven together, and Ode close behind them. And Madueke getting starts on left, even with Saka starting on right.
If you think passing or crossing not good, look as much to the movement of those off ball as those on it.
Moon Girl,
If Madueke is putting the ball in the box and no one is there, then surely Havertz and co should be questioned.
@Moon Girl
🎯
Noni has work to do, finessing his final ball and decision´s
but his job now is to make the load on Saka easier..
but teams are learning to defend against the Saka /Öde
combination on the rigth side.
100%
Been following with interest the debate regarding Madueke and how he’s a backup for an out of form Saka – while others are saying he should be playing on the left wing as he’s a natural left footed player.
I think I’ve seen Trossard named just once, while Martinelli has not even been on the radar as both were deemed surplus to Arteta’s requirements.
We received a reported £68,000,000 with add ons for these two players and a lot of fans applauded the deal as they were sure one, if not both, weren’t good enough for the PL champions and didnt possess a footballing brain.
There was also the need to show we could sell our players for “real” money and here Martinelli fitted the bill – so a double plus whammy in both cases for the club and those fans mentioned above.
Meanwhile we kept Madueke and why not?
After all the club bought him for a reported £65,000,000 as an improvement on Trossard and Martinelli and in order to strengthen our attacking options..
Funny old game wouldn’t you say?!
I think money wise, on Garlicks spreadsheet, Trossard and Jesus moving on knocked lumps off the wage bill.
Plus question mark how much Jesus is left after his knee injuries.
I think in Arteta’s head, he doubted if Martinelli could kick on at this club, tread watering for a few years now. It might even have been altruistic letting go – nice to have him without giving him the games he needs, but best for his career to be playing.
And then to say, as you take it in a different direction, it’s too early mid September for anyone to know the new plan and players have failed. They can say that, but can’t possibly know it’s true.
Ken1945,
A very good post and points well made. And I forgot that Madueke cost £65M, I’m thinking he cost £50M.
You’d think for £65M, you’d at least get a player that can cross a ball at a more consistent level, wouldn’t you.
Indeed Derek and I’m hoping that he’ll get the coaching he needs during this break.
Hooefully we will have a complete squad (apart from Saliba) to choose from once the PL starts up again, but even then I still cannot understand the reasoning behind letting Martinelli and Trossard leave.
We are very weak down that left hand side and that’s one of the reasons Saka is being run into the ground.
Ken1945,
Regards Saka being run into the ground, it seems we’ve been here before. Will Arteta ever learn?.
Doesn’t seem like it Derek.