’60 Million down the drain’ is ironic by Dan Smith
I noticed an increase in conversations on JustArsenal lately regarding Kai Havertz and thought I give my opinion on the subject.
Some readers are a sensitive bunch though. I’m not writing this based on his Bayern Munich performance but equally, the team is so successful domestically that submitting this straight after a victory would lead to accusations of an agenda.
My priority after the Man City and Brighton displays were to give the Gunners their flowers.
The consensus in the summer was that Arsenal had overpaid for a Chelsea flop, a player who after years of trying had yet to settle into English football.
The price tag surprised many but the wages he was given remain shocking. His agent deserves a pay raise for negotiating his client to become one of the highest paid employees in our history. Some of my peers suggest a fan shouldn’t concern themselves with salaries, but many did when it came to the likes of Ozil?
Wasn’t the excuse for finishing 8th and 5th that the current regime had to offload deadwood who had been over paid?
Having reduced the wage bill, it astounds me that Edu would approve this deal.
Call me old school but to me that kind of transfer fee and contract should be reserved for a talent who gives you an X Factor, a moment of magic, the difference maker in the big fixtures. I never sense that with Havertz.
At the Etihad, Anfield, in the Champions League… I never find myself relying on the German. Not like a Jesus, Saka, Odegaard or Martinelli.
It’s believed that Arteta has been a fan of the player since spotting him as a teenager and believes that at 24, he can teach the youngster to get better.
It could also be our manager overcomplicating matters, replacing Xhaka with an attack minded player because he wanted a sole DM with two number 10’s.
Thankfully that experiment has been shelved with Jorginho now supporting Rice. Yet the similarities with Xhaka are obvious. Both Xhaka and Havertz have their critics yet it’s clear that coaches trust them, seeing something in them tactically that supporters don’t. Which makes sense, they are being paid thousands of pounds a week to identify these things.
Havertz has become crucial to our system. He can hold the ball up, win duels in the air, work rate is tremendous and offers versatility.
He’s got 10 goals as a Gunner, reasonable as he’s not always starting as a striker.
Whatever we achieve this campaign his debut in North London has been solid. To many that makes his move a success and justifies the price tag!
Essentially because he hasn’t been as rubbish as so many envisaged it’s money well spent!
60 million for someone not terrible!
60 million doesn’t get you a lot, I guess.
It’s actually really patronising to a professional footballer that every tap-in is seen as a bonus, and he’s patted on the head.
He’s not a guaranteed game-changer or a competition winner!
He’s not doing us a favour!
He’s one of the most expensive purchases in our history. For 60 million the occasional goal should be our right.
What other job can you earn more than the majority of your coworkers and then get away with an average performance because the perception was you wouldn’t amount to much?
In most industries you’re paid based on the output you put in and rewarded based on results.
Even the song ’60 million down the drain’ is based on irony.
Fans laughing because Kai Havertz is doing his job, one that he was expected to be bad at.
There used to be a chant, ‘Nicolas Bendtner he’s only scores if your …. ‘
To clarify Havertz has had a solid 6-7 out of 10 in his first year at the Emirates.
That doesn’t make you worth 60 million though.
60 million should get you more.
Like a natural finisher?
Dan
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As I have already said and still believe, I didn’t/don’t get the money paid and his wages. Its a mystery why we bought him. BUT. He has done ok, he has been something different to what we have. Is he a top midfielder? No. Is he a striker? NO. If we win the league or the CL, who can argue? about either. If we don’t then there is an argument he was a poor buy, when a top striker was needed. Im not a fan, he doesn’t get me off my seat but he is, like Dan says, a 6 or 7 out of 10. He is doing a job. How well? We can judge more at the end of the season.
I think the criticism he receives is so unfair, and deflecting, because he’s easily out performing other attackers like Martinelli for example, yet Martinelli barely gets any criticism.
I love Martinelli but, you are wrong. People on here, including me have pointed out, his lack of a final ball and wastefulness. Martinelli is a better footballer than Haverz but he has to produce to prove it.
No I’m not wrong, check out the stats. Havertz is more productive than Martinelli, and let’s not forget that Martinelli gets to play in his best position every single game.
No, you were on about people moaning, not stats. I am pointing out people have highlighted contrary to your thoughts, Martinellis faults.
And I didn’t say Haverz wasn’t more productive than Haverz at all, anywhere. If you read it, you will see, I think he is a better footballer but DOESN’T produce.
Sorry, meant to read,Haverz wasn’t more productive than Martinelli. Not Haverz, Haverz obviously.
Oh I see what you mean, although I still disagree. I’ve seen nothing but Havertz bashing articles before he even kicked a ball for us, but hardly anything on Martinelli.
Yeah and if anyone said Martinelli was having a great season I would disagree
But also …he didn’t cost 60 million !
Fair point about the price, because I remember the millions wasted on Ozil.
Our record signing at the time, the second biggest transfer in British football, and a insanely expensive contract extension for a player that about one outstanding season and that was it!
Obviously Havertz is nowhere near the flop Ozil was in relation to money, but it could become a similar issue should his performances consistently drop.
Ozil was better then Havertz
I didn’t say Havertz was better, I was referring to value for money for Ozil over the entirety of his Arsenal career.
Huge financial investment, and only one top quality season in return. To date, Ozil has been our biggest financial mistake.
Ozil biggest financial mistake?!! This site keeps getting stranger! Ozil did what a player of Havertz price and wages should do. He had an immediate effect on the team and was only limited by lack of a good striker. You must be talking of Ozil in his latter years who was lethargic and on an undeserved salary.
So he had more than one outstanding season? I guess we have a different set of standards regarding what a good performance should look like, because football is a team sport, and he offered next to nothing defensively to help the team out.
Ozil was not a flop common
What are you saying?
He did more assists than DeBryune in his time at Arsenal
What are you saying
To think you’re saying all these to defend Kai
Many fans love in the present
Kai is still close to a flop
He’s only become better than Rubbish – which was how we viewed him
Ozil was at least out top 3/4 best player in the squad
Odergaard, Saka, Rice, Saliba, Maghalaes, White, Trossard – these players are well ahead of Kai (in terms of rating ur best players)
He shouldn’t be earning above even Martinelli, Jesus
He’s just a lil above them Nketiah
When Ozil came to Arsenal was obviously world class CM contrary to Havertz and no one was questioned for his fees. But it’s unfair if we don’t congratulate Havertz for outstanding performance
@Dan, let’s stop heaping the blame of a totaly and generally inflated market on Havertz. Most of the players bought within last window were not worth their prices because the market was high. Not even DRice should cost up 100m. Havertz didn’t put price on himself after all.
How much was Mason mount of Man U
I think it will probably not make a difference, but to people that actually play(ed) football, it is very clear what an immense attacking midfielder havertz is. the entitlement of many people here really make me angry. you have seen perhaps 60% of the skillse (and quite obviously you are unable to see even that), the guy has an immense workrate, he outperforms your attackers currently, every huge team apart from lpool an city is tracking him, he did the hard part in midfield and as no9 and will move back into attacking midfield when you get a feisty and tricky striker that can play a pass – which makes him at last and this years prices and fees A BARGAIN. wake up, man
by the way, if you don’t trust my view: just watch your coveted d rice how he interacts with havertz, how delighted he is to play with with him. that should tell you all. next year your midfield will be a frightful menace and hopefully elevating both, rice and havertz to worldclass type of players,
@Reggie
Real talk …👍🏾
What a lot of crap!
Attention seeker for sure and perhaps time to leave this site
Why because you don’t like one writer’s opinion? What about our other 6 writers?
Interesting how you say “our” 6 othere writers”.
I would have thought all who contribute JA articled could probably should, also be described as “our writers”.
And certainly those who are regular posters too on here.
I would be keen to know exactly WHO are your chosen 6, Ad Pat?. I’ll agree about Martin and yourself being two, so who are the other four?
Pray do reveal your other four chosen favourites to us all!
6 was a random number. There are obviously a lot more occasional contributors, if you want me to actually count how many have conributed in any month, it’s not happening. Irrelevant conversation. Don’t pursue it….
I’ll look into their contribution but totally disagree with this one, way OTT
Then why click on the article and read it ? Lol
The title must have given away what the article was about?
Think Chelsea twisted our arms on Havertz deal
This season he’s done very well, getting a lot of key goal involvements.
I too was critical of the price tag, but when you compare his performances to others at a similar price, it’s not a bad deal, and could be considered a bargain should his performances maintain over a longer period.
I agree. Kai is great at reading the game, he is aggressive and strong. But his technical ability is so poor. I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say he is probably one of the attacking players in the top 10 teams in the PL with the worst technical ability. He is poor in his first touch, shot, pass, tacked, header, he can’t dribble, nothing.
*tackel
Thats something I have been pointing out for months. 👍
More clickbait.
Lol 100%
Neutral / How is this clickbait_ Is it not a valid opinion?
clickbait means “a misleading headline” Is this one of those?
Clickbait I understand to be anything that baits a hook looking to up the click count for a site.
If there was one article about Havertz it would be 100% fine ofc. Maybe if there was one a month.
But it seems there’s a constant stream of articles about Havertz so it becomes clickbait at that point imho.
Which you clicked on ?
Strange
Necessary to post the opinion that it’s clickbait. That is… kinda obvious.
So to clarify
You go on a site , read a title and go I need to comment on this ?
That’s really odd lol
If I went on a site , read a title that I thought was click bait it would not …
Click on it ? Lol
Dont get it
I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.
It really is very simple though. If I choose to call out what I see as clickbait – by clicking on it to post two words without reading the article – that’s up to me. Insulting me doesnt mean you have a point.
Tbf I see your articles as mostly deliberate baiting. Your cunning plan seems to be: take an overly pessimistic view which is gonna poke a stick thru the bars for fans bcos it will generate a lot of traffic on a fan site.
But most of it is traffic like this, not real discussion on a football subject.
Didn’t insult you
Just don’t understand the thought process
If you think something is click bait that means they are looking for clicks
Your answer to ‘ call it out ‘ is to click on article and send comments giving the site the views you are accusing them of lol
I think you really need to watch his off the ball work… he creates alot of space with very smart movement (he is an absolute nightmare to defend against). You would have done well to notice it against Bayern. Havertz is quality and well worth the bacon – in my book 🙂
you are right. but a top team needs more than that, we also need someone who is good on the ball. and Kai is bad with the ball. he creates space, but when he gets the ball he destroys most good attacks, or only does the simplest things because he knows he is poor. overall, we get a decent player, probably a 7. but for the heights we are aiming for, we need more.
What a wonderful article full of sense. I was left astonished by a previous article that thought 60M for Havertz was a steal!! Imagine the conundrum next season, should we get a better striker, of having a 60M + 330K p/w player on the bench, something we painfully did away with and hoped would never happen again.
Par for the course with Dan” the arch critic” Smith!
I would be worried his articles were written by an imposter if they ever praised anything MA has done. But as they never do, we all know it IS Dan writing.
After all, criticism is his trademark and is how we know its HIM writing!
On another point, these days £60 mil buys you only an averge player and IMO, Havertz, after a slow start, has already proved himself far above average.
And, unlike some, I present the evidence of him being a regular choice in a team top of the league to back my asssertion.
At least Dan is controversial, rather than bland jon.
“Bland?”.
JAX, I am intrigued as to who you think is being bland. I suggest that Ad Martin is almost always bland.
But, IF by any chance you meant that I am bland, then you have failed to read ANY of my thousands of JA posts and some articles.
My posts ALWAYS actually say something and ARE never bland.
So pray, do tell us WHO exactly you consider “bland”! And why?
I assume you DO know what “bland” really means?
I don’t mean you at all jon, or Ken, before he steams in on me. I said that Dan was not bland, but didn’t suggest that anyone else was, but often think it’s a case of “never mind the quality, feel the width”😉.
Well Jax, glad to see you never meant Ken either. Not that it ever crossed my mind to think you could possibly have meant him.
KEN and I differ on many things but NEITHER of us are ever bland. We say EXACTLY what we both mean and good for that too.
I do not understand what your cryptic “quality…. width” sentence means either?
Perhaps( he added , mischievously) it was simply being “bland”!
It’s a take on the rag trade’s “never mind the width, feel the quality”
I AM WELL AWARE OF THAT AS MY PARENTS WERE IN THE RAG TRADE.
Though I still see no meaning in this context.. But as you are not going to tell me anyway, possibly because you dont even know why you used it or what you actually meant,I will now move on!
Yes, move on jon😜.
Jon doesn’t like hes often wrong lol
His knowledge is shocking
The grief he gave Mr Wenger and Giroud , Ozil , Mustafi , Xakha , etc
But we are not allowed to do the same ?
Jon who also states we won’t win the CL or Prem yet thinks Arteta is doing a great job
That’s why I often don’t read his replies
His knowledge is shocking
It’s all based on him not liking that I’m proven correct
DAN So many distortions in this post. I certainly had NO time at all for bone idle Ozil. Nor much time for error strewn Mustafi.
I was among the large majority who for his first five of his seven sesons here thought Xhaka a liability, but when his perfs massively improved, like most Gooners, my opinion of him as a aplayer in his final two seasons also changed with the evidence changing.
Perfectly normel and sensible thoughts by me and by others on his time here.
The so called grief you claim I gave to Wenger nevr reached his ears or eyes so there was no actual “grief” ,but I certainly criticised him staying far too long when it had been plain to me, and also to most others in increasing stages as his tenure lengthened to its full regressing last decade, that our club was stagnating ands slowly falling away froim thetop sphere, which was and is still generally accepted by mainstream Gooner opinion.
Your false allegation idea that I was against Giroud is simply untrue, what some would call in fact “a lie”.
Giroud always give his utmost all his time here and though plainly not a world beater, he was overall a good and honest player.
OzIl was the complete opposite, despite his God given talent, which he chose to waste by his shocking attitude on the pitch for his whole time here
As to winning the two comps we are still in , I have said and said from the start and still do that our chance to win the CL was and is remote.
I stand by that.
Conversely, I said only last week that we have a serious chance to win the Prem and that getting knocked out by BM, will aid our chances to win Prem by cutting down games we could do without and by reducing both fatigue and chance of injuries, esp to key players.
All of the above is true and are sensible thoughts. You many disagree, as you almost always do.
But DAN, IT IS YOU WHO ARE THE OUTLIER WITH YOUR LEFT FIELD OPINIONS AND CONSTANT NEGATIVITY TO THE TEAM YOU SUPPORT
I have said and stand by my comment that you are odd and strange as a Gooner who revels in criticising, constantly, the team you presumably love. We all moan at times, but very few and there are a VERY FEW, choose to do nothing but criticise the team we all love
In stark contrast to when you answer posts by others who remark on your negativity, I have paid you the respect of a full and detailed rely.
No single sentence or two at most, containing a brief and flippant one liner with an offhand “mate” being used when you reply.
Stopped reading at DAN lol
Haha
Doubtless you did. too.
As reading on and seeing the truth which you resolutely refuse to accept, would hurt you!
Xakha was top of the league and what did you call him ?
Must have missed the articles where I praised us after Man City and Brighton ?
What I like about Dan’s articles, is the way his readers interpretation of what he writes can be seen as either praise or negativity.
He also makes one THINK!!
Havertz reported salary is absolutely ridiculous, especially after the club had gone through the shambles of the Ozil / Aubameyang scenario. Dan is absolutely correct regarding this.
But what he has done, with the support of MA, is to show those who insulted him, before he had even kicked a ball for The Arsenal, just how little they know about football.
Havertz WASN’T bought as a striker, he wasn’t a marquee signing, he wasn’t bought as a Xhaka replacement – he was bought as part of Mikel Arteta’s project and what chelsea couldn’t get out of him, The Arsenal have.
Will he and his team mates help bring us the PL or the CL?
Time will tell, but it’s the nearest we’ve been for a very long time, that’s for sure!!
Ken I disagree with your assertion that DANs articles are open to individual interpretation as to him writing praise or negativity.
Negativity and criticism, and not individual interpretation either, but undiluted and obvious criticism, is DANS personal trademark and to suggest it is not, is beyond fiction!
As evidence for my view, I offer not merely my own view, but that of countless others who regularly say the same about his negativity as I do.
Your proving EXACTLY what I mean Jon!!
I see this article as a bit of praise and a bit of negativity and, from the replies, Dan seems to have a cross section of views.
What more could a writer ask from his work?
Agree Ken, I think Dan has it spot on. Haverz has not proved he was worth the money but he hasn’t yet disproved it either. He is different and he is unorthodox. To what level, still has to be proved. I do think his lack of technical ability, is a minus but his height is a plus.
To me, Havertz is not as good as people are making him out to be. He’s also not as bad either. I wouldn’t label him a flop. 10+ goals and assists is decent, even if it doesn’t set the world alight. At 60m, given how expensive players are these days, its not bad. But the wages at 300k+ a week? Only time will tell.
I believe he will get better.
I think you have been waiting to post this for a while because in he pretty much has a goal or assist in his last 8 games which is a much better return than Jesus and Martinelli have had all season. Second highest g/a behind Saka and played left 8 for the majority of it. The disrespect towards Havertz is getting tedious . We were in awful form than Jesus got injured Havertz went upfront and we scored like 36 goals in 8 games. Had Ben white finished that chance against Munich which would was basically created by Havertz pressing and he played the ball through it would be 9 games 9 g/a. We have no better option that Kai at cf and it should be Martinelli who is dropped for either Jesus or Trossard because he has been awful since the first game of the season and the tail end of last but I guess nobody wants the conversation.
When he doesn’t score that will be your headline…but why????let me tell you he did well and can settled the tie in Germany
what a sad lot, obsessed with one player, 25 in the squad, 11 on the pitch, and ever single time it is about 1 player
everyone must agree that Arsenal have risen a level from last season, some of that is due to gained experience, some of that is due to new recruits, and some of that is due to Kai Havertz
haters never give up, and I expect a huge correlation with the [some how as crazy as it seems] Arteta haters, Take your “support” somewhere else please!
Anytime results don’t go the way of Arsenal I always expect to read an article here picking on Havertz is normal.
I found myself completely unable to extricate myself from an Ozil thread recently. I really tried and I hope that with Havertz I don’t end up doing the same. It is a bit like groundhog day – discussing his worth as we did with Ozil.
Havertz has been at Arsenal for less than a season and is steadily improving within the context of what Arteta is aiming to achieve with him. I have barely read a comment that is unflinchingly positive. But then almost each one is countered by not being unflinchingly negative. It seems to me that the biggest bug bear is that he cost what he did and his salary is up there with the most highly paid.
I find myself being pleasantly surprised that he is proving to be a valuable member of the squad and one that if the current trajectory continues, will be allowed to develop.
I am afraid, Dan, that I find the regular mention of our 8th and 5th placed positions being brought up now rather tedious and I don’t understand the relevance in relation to Havertz. You have mentioned deadwood, so that implies that you think he is a deadwood and yet nobody else has given him that title.
Because ‘ only ‘ finishing top 4 led to abuse for Mr Wenger
Yet 5th and 8th were progress for Arteta
We were told because he had too many players on long contracts being paid over the odds . That’s why he was excused for ripping up contracts
Why pay Ozil and Auba to rip up contacts to save money only to give those wages to Havertz ?
As for what you find tedious ?
That’s your issue
Many readers on here also said I was wrong to question our mentality last season , Eddie Nketiah,Reiss Nelson and Smith Rowe being mis treated
That’s simply because some won’t have anything bad said about their club which I think is childish
So you can think Havertz is worth 60 million doesn’t make you right just because people won’t say it
He’s good .. .he’s not worth 60 million
You are a bit tetchy tonight Dan.
How far back in history do you want to go? There is precious little that is relevant in my mind with bringing up what people thought about Wenger ‘only’ finishing 4th. Not that it matters, but I was one of those who believed that top 4 was vital, even though I didn’t contribute to JA then. The only obvious difference is that one was a seasoned campaigner who more could have been expected and the other was a fledgling manager so 4th or 5th or 8th are not giving a true picture so I don’t see the point of constantly referring to them.
Neither did I think that Havertz was worth £60m or worth £300k pw (if that is what it is) However, the club did fork out £100m plus for Rice, so I suppose that is something to balance high prices in general, and Havertz in particular..
As for Nketiah and co, they are not the subject of your article, or our overall mentality or apparent lack of it on Tuesday, which will no doubt feature in an article of yours in the near future. Cheers
Not tetchy lol
The article is simple …..he’s been okay but for 60 million you should be more then okay
Cheers
I think that is what I said but I think that he may be better than ok going forward
He mainly got abused but it was glaringly obvious we needed a different type player to compliment the squad but he refused to buy it. Imagine a rice or Partey type player alongside Fabregas or Carzola. The difference between abameyang/Ozil and Havertz is the fact they were 30 and Havertz is 24. Furthermore we know that Havertz was poor at Chelsea yet Arsenal, Madrid and Munich were all interested in signing him. If you put him alongside Sancho, Antony, Caicedo, Mudryk, Doku, Grealish,Sterling, nunez , hooking and enzo I would say we underpaid for Havertz
Dan you have no knowledge of Arsenal at all, so let me give you a history lesson.
Wenger didn’t get criticism because of CL qualification, he got criticism because he went 14 years straight of not getting near winning the league. Even when ALL our rivals had a terrible season at the same time, even then, Wenger couldn’t take advantage, and Leicester won the league. That’s how bad he was, and let’s not forget our horrific performances in Europe post 2006.
Second part of your history lesson is that Arteta had to rebuild everything along with Edu and others, because the club had hit rock bottom. And during that time Arteta got a ton of criticism,. Even this season, when we’ve been absolutely amazing, he’s still getting criticism from some of our completely delusional fans!
On ripping up the contracts of OZIL and Auba, BOTH those players were bone idle (Auba in his final two years and Ozil throughout) while HAVERTZ WORKS HIS SOCKS OFF.
One earns his money , the other two conned it on the pitch!
It doesn’t matter how many people think he wasn’t worth the money we paid for him, the club did. As with anything that’s for sale, be it a house, a car, whatever, it’s worth what someone is willing to pay.
Simples, HD, simples 🙂
I agree mate but same readers didn’t say that for Ozil ?
Simples 😉
Are you talking his renewed contract or his transfer fee?
Did anybody think that giving PEA a new bumper contract was bad news? I didn’t More of the same goal scoring please. We are a long way away from knowing if Havertz will have been worth it and right now, it is too soon to say
Looks like ol gnasher is just going to concentrate on the premier league. I don’t believe they’d lose 3-0 at Anfield otherwise.
I was shocked
Do you think that result will spill over on to their league game this weekend?
At least Havertz closes down the opposition and helps out the midfield and defence, something that can’t be said about Ozil. Simples 🙂
This post was meant as a reply to Dan
Yeah only had a season where he got 19 league assists and won 4 FA Cups with Arsenal
Our only trophies in the last two decades ?
But Havertz for 60 million …..works hard lol
Yeah, played one game in our last FA Cup win, and that was in the 3rd round.
At least Havertz doesn’t get to have two breaks during the season…
And the other 3 ?
Sorry …..are you claiming that Kai Havertz is better then Ozil ?.
He played well in the others, but those wins were before he got his massive pay rise…
Never claimed Havertz is better than Ozil, everyone knows they are two different types of footballers.
Oh it’s just you were making a comparison
No, you’re the one making comparisons based on their wages 🙄
Ozil went missing against Hull, where the likes of Santi and Ramsey had to save us.
He was ok at best against Villa, but upstaged by Alexis.
Alexis and Ramsey were the ones to really deliver against Chelsea, Ozil was decent in that game.
And ozil played no significant part in the fourth fa cup – didn’t play a minute after the third round
So if Havertz and Arteta win 4 FA Cups we are going to down play that ?
If havertz doesn’t play in an fa cup past the third round, and we win it, then yes, you’d have to say he didn’t have much of a part in it – that’s obvious?
On reflection, though, I will agree that it’s unfair to downplay his contribution to the three fa cups he did play in. He was part of those teams and undoubtedly helped them side to win – it’s just the implication that we won those cups because of him, or that him signing was the catalyst for us winning cups again. I don’t think that’s true, and there are other players who had a greater impact in those wins (eg Ramsey and cazorla – though I think he missed the first).
I don’t think ozil ever truly won us a game, regardless of the stats. If the team played well, he played well, but if the team played poorly, he disappeared. The heavy tackle havertz put in during his first game against city is worth more to me than anything ozil ever did for us because it woke the team up and sent a message that we weren’t going to be walked over. Changed the momentum – he’s done that a few times already.
You understand the importance of mentality for getting over the line – surprisingly(?) havertz seems to have brought a bit of that, an ability to face up to challenging situations. Ozil was the quintessential luxury player – the cherry on top in an already strong side, but a liability in a merely decent side, which is what we were back then.
I think havertz has justified his transfer fee, but agree his reported wages are excessive – I’d say the same of just about anyone tbh.
Cl hat trick ?
Yes, because we weren’t bearing ludogorets without ozil scoring a hat trick. Reaching, Dan
No , I literally read your question mate
‘ did he ever truly win us a game ‘
You can’t when you don’t like the answer change the question lol
Not reaching at all …..it’s knowledge
Can name you others if you want
And we were 2-0 down to ludogrets ,so yes think we did in fact need his hat trick
We won the game 6-0? Are we talking about different games? The only thing I can find for “ozil hat trick” is the 6-0 win over ludogorets…
Regardless, if that’s your example for ozil winning us a game, you’re really reaching.
To make it clear – I’m talking about getting us through a real challenge, when the team wasn’t playing well, could ozil turn things on our favour? he wasn’t that guy.
Arsenal were 2-0 down at Ludgorets but Xhaka and Giroud brought us level and Ozil scored the winner on 87 minutes….
Ah, so that wasn’t his hat trick, but an important goal in a different match Vs ludogorets – thanks for the clarification
The REAL truth is that ALL wages for ALL Prem players for ALL teams , are “excessive” and also obscene!
Unless that changes, top level football is on the road to nowhere!
I agree with you on the first sentence, but the world has decided otherwise.
I don’t know what you mean about the trajectory of football there, Jon – football is doing well for itself. I suspect it’s hurt the quality of international football, but generally it’s attracting huge numbers of fans, and I don’t see that changing soon.
Arsenal 1-0 Bayern Munich?
Ozil scored
He scored a late second in a 2-0 win (not the winner in a 1-0 win). You’re still missing the point and it seems you’re desperate to prove ozil won us important games (hence why you said he scored a hat trick in a champions League game and didn’t name the opposition before). Seems you also have a selective memory as that’s twice you got the score wrong in a way that makes ozil’s contributions look bigger than they were…
It shouldn’t be this hard.
But Havertz isn’t the record holder for the most assists in the :
PL – CL – Bundesliga – La Liga – WC – EC.
I guess it depends on what one wants from two different players and comparing them achieves nothing.
All I hope is that Havertz is part of the squad that wins trophies for the club and plays regularly in the CL, just as Ozil did.
Simples!!
Just read the comments above and having a chuckle, posters leaving the site and accusations of click bait. For the record, I loved the article, a lot of it I agree with and some of it I strongly agree with. The transfer fee baffled me and loads of other people I know too, I had concerns when I found out how high the wages are, as well. I’m of the opinion that you have to earn the right to be a clubs top earner, otherwise you can affect the morale of other squad members, whom contribute more and earn less. Also, I’m of the opinion that new signings should earn their right to start and not walk straight into the starting 11, upon arrival. At the start of the season Kai was starting, not playing great and others like Trossard where looking on from the bench, wondering what they must be doing wrong. Yes he’s doing alright, he’s contributed to goals but who’s to say Trossard wouldn’t have done the same with the same minutes, in the same positions Kai played or ESR (if was fit) wouldn’t have contributed same/more goal assists, or even Reiss Nelson or Zinchenko? As for some posters arguments about Martinelli’s performances this season can’t see that football is more than goals and assists. Martinelli is a hard working winger who is a trusted outlet to keep possession and carry the team forward which pushed our opponents back, towards their goal. No comparison as hes only 22, cost around £6M and earns a well deserved £180k a week, up from £90k a week last season. When you compare everything side by side with Kai, I’d say he should be setting the stage alight every game for what he’s earning, he should be a game changer like Saka, otherwise it won’t make sense to the rest of the squad or us fans. Yes we are top of the league, still in the CL but who’s to say that we wouldn’t have been clear by 10 points in the league or 4-2 up against Bayern with a different player for £60M? For now he’s doing okay, he’s earning he’s keep and is slowly proving the doubters wrong, me being one of them but the transfer fee/wages was plain stupid and I sincerely hope his wage packet won’t be a reason for our players to lose morale or look to move on to other clubs, so they can match Kai’s earnings.
Yeah still trying to work out the click bait logic lol
Enjoying the cat fight up above over a decent but not exceptional player. Let’s see whether Harvetz can prove his doubters wrong against Villa and in Munich next week.
Ozil scored our winner against Bayern lol
Just saying
I belatedly saw this article because I was travelling but felt compelled to say something. I am one of those who supported Havertz from the beginning and I have not changed my position on that. Why should anyone think Havertz is not good enough when he has scored 8 goals making him our second highest scorer, made several assists and is defensively involved in all games he plays? Is it because he was one time a Chelsea flop?
I have seen Jon being branded bland because he dared to express his views and someone calls this freedom of expression! One thing I admire about Jon is his forthright manner. By the way, he and I have at times had some points of departure but that is what freedom means. No wise people can agree all the time. Jon and Ken1945 are the two people whose views I always look for before anyone else. The reason is simple. They don’t shy away from expressing their feelings even if they may not be acceptable to some people.
Reading through the various sentiments, I failed to see where Havertz had fallen short and why he should continually be a topic of discussion on this platform. Is it logical that every time a player has an off day he should be a topic of discussion. How many times have Saka, Martinelli, Jesus, Trossard and others had off days? Why have they never become topics of discussion? In retrospect, I recall how we lost players like Gervino, Adebayor and others who went on to become successful players elsewhere because of some people’s negative and openly hostile attitudes! Giroud and Xhaka only stayed because of their tough personalities and yet by the time they left everyone was pleading with them to stay. I have always insisted that, as Arsenal supporters, we need to outgrow pettiness and become objective in our outlook. We should support whichever player comes in and give him an opportunity to do his trade. It is gross injustice to judge one by where one came from or how one was performing in one’s former club. Everyone should start on a clean slate and given ample time to prove himself.
Chelsea ripped us off, and as if that wasn’t enough, Havertz and his agent continue to steal from us on a WEEKLY basis!! Of course Arteta and Edu bear the biggest share of the blame for allowing the club to be conned that much.
How could they make a player the club’s top earner then take almost half a season to determine an appropriate position for him in the team? Havertz playing as a CF seems like a plan B. He failed in the role he was originally deployed to and we are just lucky the CF experiment seems to work. Next season, he will either prevent us from getting a better CF or he will be a bench warmer. It’s a loose – loose situation, unless he really improves and becomes a reliable and consistent CF. Imagine a bench player gobbling up 330k from the club for at least 3 more years?!! Pathetic
Take it from me Havertz will never be a bench warmer unless he is injured. The worst for Havertz is over. Once a player turns a corner as Havertz has done there is no turning back. If you wished him to be a bench warmer your wishes have failed to materialise.
I wish to ask some of our fellow fans this simple question: What do you have to do with Arsenal’s accounts and finance? Truly it is none of our business.
My last comment on Havertz!
Arteta bought him as a replacement for Xhaka.
As a left sided midfielder he was completely out of place.
It took Arteta a while to admit this mistake, so he moved him up front, as a false nine.
To be fair to Havertz, he has been much more successful as a floating forward.
However, we still have not replaced Xhaka.
Arteta has tried Jorghino in that position, and in some games that has worked out. The trouble with Jorginho is his lack of pace, and he was found out against Bayern.
Zinc, when playing just as a left back can defend well, but it seems almost impossible for him not to move up into midfield, leaving Gabriel to have to cover for him (not fair on Gabriel)
Arteta has tried Kiwior at left back, but he too is short of real pace.
Finally, I think the Bayern game exposed our lack of a “Top Class” striker.
We survive on the goals we score from the rest of the team, but a 20 goal a season forward could make all the difference and get us to the next level.
So, in my view we still need a young, quick, left back who can DEFEND.
We need a strong, quick footballing DM to play on the left.
Finally, we need a quick, strong 20 goal a season forward to lead the line.
Not much to ask for, Mikel!!!!
young quick left back = Timber
strong quick DM on left = Rice
i don’t understand lording Xhaka, one good season, six stinkers
but agree we need further depth in both
we drew against Bayern due to two rare defensive calamities, we scored two excellent goals and Saka probably should have added a third, on another day Arsenal romp that 3 – nil, so that game if anything demonstrates ‘new striker’ not needed
I don’t agree with you on the transfer fee mainly because they have grossly inflated in the last couple of years. Yes 60m used to get you superstars, game changers but now one good look at the fees involved and 60m doesn’t really much anymore.
just look at those fees(euros)
Declan Rice €116.60m
Moisés Caicedo €116.00m
Jude Bellingham €103.00m
Harry Kane €95.00m
Randal Kolo Muani €95.00m
Josko Gvardiol €90.00m
Kai Havertz €75.00m
Rasmus Højlund €73.90m
Dominik Szoboszlai €70.00m
Gonçalo Ramos €65.00m
Mason Mount €64.20m
Sandro Tonali €64.00m
Roméo Lavia €62.10m
Matheus Nunes €62.00m
Christopher Nkunku €60.00m
Jérémy Doku €60.00m
Manuel Ugarte €60.00m
Brennan Johnson €55.00m
Moussa Diaby €55.00m
André Onana €50.20m
very few actually deserve it and even less played good enough to merit it.
i wholeheartedly agree with you on the reported wages he earns which is crazy compared to his more influential teammates.