Arsenal On Notice!
According to The Athletic, although the Premier League has not confirmed anything, Man City have been found guilty of 114 out of 115 charges for financial rule breaches.
Don’t be surprised if Arsenal are one of several top-flight clubs already in consultation to see if they would have a case for compensation.
In the short term, this could help the Gunners retain their title, with a points deduction and fine the most likely punishment for the league leaders.
Longer term, though, sanctions could include a points penalty that essentially ensures relegation, previous trophies being stripped away, transfer bans and even, but less likely, expulsion.
Before Gooners get excited, though, this could be dragged on for years, or even longer, considering how long it took to get to this point.
An initial 12-week hearing wrapped up in December 2024. Legal experts have since said it’s unprecedented for a panel to take so long to reach a verdict.
City’s stance has always been that they are innocent and, while they will never publicly admit this, they are paying some of the best lawyers in the country to drag this out.
A legal team, though, who have ultimately failed to provide the irrefutable evidence to prove their innocence which they stressed existed.
Would the Premier League really want a huge punishment?
My assumption was that all parties would compromise and make a deal under the table.
The guilty party doesn’t fight a punishment that is harsh enough for the Premier League to show the rest of the division that it has acted, but nothing serious enough to have any lasting impact.
That way, England wouldn’t be hurting one of its most lucrative brands.
Does the Premier League really want to have to admit the Aguero moment only happened because of cheating?
It’s a bit hard marketing yourself as the best league in the world if you do that. No one benefits from hurting your own brand, including the Gunners.
This would be a take-it-or-leave-it offer: give us a slap on the wrist or carry on a battle against a legal team with unlimited funds.
That’s why, while it’s idealistic for fanbases to imagine Man City being dropped to the bottom of the pyramid, the reality is that if the punishment is something the club can’t come back from, common sense for them would be to appeal.
Do the Premier League really want, or can they afford, this dragging on?
Yet was that when the Citizens were assuming they would get away with the serious charges, or only be found guilty on a few of the lesser ones?
The only hope is that, unless they really are adamant of their innocence, from a PR point of view, those in power on the blue half of Manchester think it’s not worth doing any more damage to their image by fighting a losing battle.
If they as a club think their legacy was questionable before, this is going to be hard to live with.
What happens to City’s legacy?
Forget comparing the 1999 and 2023 Treble winners anymore.
Don’t ever say the Centurions were a better achievement than the Invincibles!
Rightly or wrongly, every manager and player during this period will have an asterisk next to their name.
I would be fuming as a City fan because, with the resources they had, they didn’t need to cheat to get to this level.
Some will argue any trophy since 2009 to this current day should be removed from the Etihad cabinet because cheating to build their squad has had a domino effect.
The actual timeframe they are accused of manipulating their financial income is 2009-2018. In that period, they lifted three titles, three League Cups and one FA Cup.
BBC Sport reports there is little appetite within the Premier League, both the organisation and its clubs, for City’s past titles to be stripped or new champions announced.
Unless they are dramatically successful in their appeal, the body of work from Mancini, Pellegrini and Pep Guardiola is tainted, no matter what is official or not official.
Likewise, a City fan still lived those moments. You can’t force them to pretend that a 3-2 win over QPR didn’t happen.
No one associated with Liverpool or Man United will cry if another title is added to their Wikipedia page, but that’s all it would be.
There wouldn’t be a street parade, so is the juice worth the squeeze?
Rewriting history becomes very messy
Remember, football is a business. The priority is to make as much money as possible.
So while the Kroenke family wants to see a competitor bleed long-term, all owners are impacted if the division’s integrity takes a battering.
That’s what will happen if we go down the rabbit hole of retrospectively rewriting history.
Do we tell Mr Wenger a League Cup medal is in the post because his loss in the 2018 Final is now void?
Would that be fair on the sides City knocked out in the earlier rounds?
Is it as simple as all runners-up to City in the league now taking the crown for that year, or do we need to add up how many points they took off each side?
What happens if you beat City that season? Are we only giving points back to those who lost and therefore editing the whole table?
What do we do to reimburse anyone relegated by six points or less who can now blame two defeats to Man City?
It’s too messy.
I would guess the 19 current clubs in the Premier League are more interested in hurting Man City’s future than their past?
Remember, though, the CFG is owned by a royal and the vice president of a country.
He’s used to getting his way in far more serious conflicts than sport. He has the wealth to find any loopholes that exist if he wants to appeal, which is why, if the punishment is proportionate to the crime, let’s hope Man City have enough class left to admit defeat and take the consequences.
To be continued?
Dan Smith
What do you think, Gooners? Should the focus be on punishing Manchester City’s future, or should football also try to address what happened in the past? Let us know in the comments.
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Rather than adjusting the entire standings for the years in question, City should be made to pay compensation directly to the teams they cheated. This would make up for lost prize money and relegation. This is in addition to any punishment the Premier League imposes.
An asterisk must be added next City’s name on any and all League publicans explaining they only won because they cheated.
They also should suffer a very large point loss, enough to relegate them out of the Premier League for 2 or 3 seasons. Don’t support them being booted out of the Pyramid.
Additional financial scrutiny before allowing them back in the Premiership is obvious.
David
Do you have any idea of how many teams were cheated by City during those years? It must be dozens who’ve suffered financially and by widely differing sums. I agree that they should all be compensated, but they should pursue their own claims either individually or by some sort of collective action.
Agree. It’s unrealistic to expect the Prem to work all that out by themselves to everyone’s satisfaction. Clubs should bring civil claims if they feel they are entitled to compensation, and let the courts figure it out case by case.
I agree with your points Dan Smith and David’s too.
Prem League should perhaps look at all those claims to courts for lost money being headed off and payed for so settled up instead from a huge fine. Settlements to avoid courts for aggrieved party’s settled quicker from the money got from Prem League fine.
Prem will absolutely dock points, as they already have been doing to other clubs recently for similar breaches so need to show consistency. These dock points will relegate Man City, and perhaps even set the more dock points to overcome when they first get back in the Prem. And have dock points hanging over them as punishment for further breaches.
I think Prem League not keen on stripping medals and trophy’s, City fans don’t fear it. But Euafa might do the trophy stripping. Not just Prem League but Man City also cheated the Champions League. Stripped, thrown out and banned from European football I will put as likely.
How would I personally approach it?
The strongest thing to do is not hurt fans or anyone else unaware of lawbreaking, but target the law breakers.
Declare the owner an unfit owner and ban him from anything to do with football. The person most culpable is the owner, the buck starts there. Throw the book at the ownership. Take away titles, fine club, dock points – options, that’s all club bashing, es, but the main thing is deal with the root cause, the biggest criminal, declare the owner unfit owner, ban them from all football in the world.
This seems to be the line Oasis and other Man City fans are taking, anger at owners and those club running the club, who could have won all those things at that time without cheating.
There was a fake Mancini contract and pay for the fair pay rules to know, and a real one he was actually getting. Why only Mancini, Why didn’t Pep get the same treat? Why didn’t the director of football? Why didn’t Rodri? Mancini knew this was breaking fair play rules. Ban him from having any job in football, EUFA and FIFA ban those aware of the crimes from football. Ban all those who also knew what was going on. Everyone who knew is the culprit. Ban Pep from football, ban Rodri from football if needs be.
For me Guilty now pending appeal should mean transfer ban. For me A transfer ban could have come in earlier, as everything they done with transfers was helped by the rewards of cheating. Early on, the investigation could easily have concluded years ago, the merit in some allegations and those already discarded, in what could have been interim report. Why not restrict transfers at that interim stage knowing the strong merit of some charges?
All the transfer dealing in recent years including this summer has been result of cheating, just like criminals robbing people with scams whilst living on Costa del Sol, still dining out on the spoils of the scams and robbery, not having their businesses closed down or assets frozen is them laughing at victims. The current Man City is exactly that, grown the club to even more riches, and currently Scot free for those crimes the same as that metafor of mine. Every transfer Man City has made in recent years every trophies won growing to further riches from cheating, is them still laughing at victims until action is finally taken. It’s been allowed to go on too long without any action taken.
If the decision was up to me:
1. Automatic relegation, and start in championship with negative points.
2. Forfeit their titles and trophies,
Leave those seasons without a champion, let that blemish remain on the league history as a reminder.
3. All prize money awarded to them as champions will be returned and split among the clubs that were harmed by their cheating
4. League auditor to audit all transfers (buying and selling) for 3 years to ensure they follow the rules
5. All executives found guilty banned for life in any football related clubs & activities
6. Massive record setting fine, club has to pay, owners can’t bail them out.
7. Force ownership to sell and ban them from owning any English clubs ever again. Baseball and NFL have done this in the past.
It has to be a harsh punishment to prevent future cheating like this.
I really like this punishment, but I don’t think the authorities have the guts to do it. @David’s points above are more likely to be implemented
Agree on all, except first one,relegate to 2nd Division with 25 points deducation each season for five years with transfer ban for five years
I agree with the other readers. The club needs to feel the pain for future seasons. BUT they cannot be allowed to benefit from the past. So there has to be retrospective action and forward action.
Remove their titles without awarding them to runners – up and leave those contests with no winner. I include any titles gained since 2009 including CL. I would approach UEFA to support this.
For the future a financial penalty is inappropriate for such wealthy owners so the punishment must affect their football operations and should be spread over several seasons to reflect that the offences occurred over several seasons. An immediate relegation and a points deduction in each of the next ten years would be appropriate plus a ten year UEFA competition ban.
Any financial compensation must be left to individual clubs to pursue. Those who perceived they have been wronged and believe they have suffered a loss should take their own legal actions.
Some very big flaw in the article – if the PL didn’t want to harm one of its own “lucrative brands” why on earth did it spend millions of pounds and years of fighting the brand in the first place?
Why introduce 115 charges when they could have sufficed with say ten or twenty?
They and city115 were the only ones who had all the information and could have agreed on a simpler solution for both parties, but they chose to fight the corruption and, no matter how much some people think the brand will not be damaged if a lesser punishment is agreed, the brand HAS been damaged and one of its famous clubs are being dragged through the gutter by the honest actions of the PL.
The second flaw in the argument being put forward, is that the Aquero incident needs to be seen as not being tied to any of the charges ,again to cover the brand image and city’s cheating.
Why?
As Mike Dean, the referee that day, has indicated, both he and Rooney have publicly stated that they felt there was something not quite right after QPR had equalised, so the general public have been made aware of that anyway and the PL will also be aware.
Thirdly, unless the trophies are physically taken away, they will legitimately be allowed to stay on the clubs website as part of their history and honours list.
The most effective way to remember how city cheated their way to the trophies, is to adopt point 2 fromDurand’s post above.
It will remain there for as long as football is played and a permanent reminder that cheating has consequences.
Finally regarding the article itself, the headline asks about rewriting history – isn’t that what City tried to do by cheating time and time and time again?
History most definitely needs to be rewritten in order to ensure the truth is told .
City can and should be punished to the fullest extent, the record books re written and history corrected now we know the facts behind the biggest scandal in football history.
Your point about the Aguero goal was news to me. It never occurred to me that there was something fishy. I’ve now read an account of the significance of his goal and the QPR role in it. I don’t know if the goal could be classified as cheating from the top. On reading the account there seemed to be vested interests in the QPR squad (previous City players) who may not have tried hard enough at the end, knowing they hadn’t been relegated
It can’t be Sue as it’s a conspiracy theory with zero evidence
I believe at 2-2 QPR knew they were safe so may have relaxed but that’s not cheating
I didn’t say QPR were cheating though. But it’s reasonable to assume as you have that they may have relaxed once they knew relegation was out of the question
Didn’t say you did but Dean and Rooney are implying something strange was happening and others are implying QPR had ex City players .
It’s as simple as ( like you said ) QPR at 2-2 were safe so suddenly the game means more to City
Happens every year …that’s the luck of football isn’t it
When Gooners were looking at the run in last season how many said if we have to beat Palace on the final day , it’s okay because it’s day before a European Final so they will rest players
If that had happened would that have been strange ?
Villa won at the Ethiad last season in a game where players were stopping to give players a guard of honour when subbed off
Do you think it would had been a tougher game for Villa if City had something to play for ?
Again no one said that was strange
But Rooney and Dean have said it was and it’s their opinion so why are you getting so tetchy Dan?
Here’s a story that’s just come out involving the Haaland transfer and it involves the ex Sporting Director of Borussia Dortmund.
The club had already turned down £75 million offers from Manure and Chelsea and a follow up bid from the latter offering £130 million and Tammy Abraham’s, before accepting city’s offer of the release clause of £51 million – WHY?
He explains that city’s first condition for the transfer was that that figure was to be the only released figure, but that, after secret discussions that included guaranteed payments, structured extras and what was agreed within tge players camp…..the total package was nearer 250 million euros!!
Now this is from a person who was involved with the transfer – the player himself was involved with the transfer details and two clubs were involved in covering up the real value of the transfer itself.
What the reaction of BD will be, if the above is correct, will be interesting as they could be hauled up in front of EUFA and the German FA and who knows what the consequences will be?
As I previously stated this city115 trial will be THE biggest scandal in football history and it’s only in the early stages!!
oh mate I apologise if I come across like that
not tetchy at all
just pointing out there’s no evidence of cheating
of course they are entitled to their opinion but we can all say that can’t we
what people want or feel isn’t the same as facts
I sense Ken your be disappointed by the outcome
We will never know
Because it still has to look into any rule breaks but they are not going to hurt their own brand any further
Hence why it’s being reported no one is pushing for that because it can only hurt all involved
Dan, I will not be disappointed whatever the outcome as I know the corruption within our game is gradually being recognised and city115 will have to live with whatever punishment they receive.
I’m very pleased that Arsene has been proven correct from his statement regarding chelsea and city.
The tentacles of their corruption is already spreading out, as the Borussia Dortmund story above illustrates.
I’m also sure that no one has claimed there was cheating in the QPR game mate, only you claiming there wasn’t.
I’m sure you’re aware of yet another scandal unfolding that has nothing to do with city115 ?
The Head of Refereeing in Turkey, a certain Ferhat Gundigdu, plus five others have been arrested on the following charges:
Interference in the registration formation.
Referee classification.
Referee game assignments.
Scoring and Appointment Processes.
Rule Examinations.
It was determined that this has nothing to do with the previous refereeing scandal in Turkey.
The corruption of our game knows no bounds it seems wouldn’t you agree?!?!
I didnt say anyone did
someone wrote
iI don’t know if the goal could be classified as cheating ?
So I agreed and said why It wouldn’t be
Ken,
Given allegations were already public, if the Prem board saw there was potentially a case to investigate, it would be far worse if they ignored it than investigated. Their responsibility is the success and integrity of the league as a whole. All clubs need to be confident that the rules are being applied fairly and consistently, so a failure to act decisively would have been seen by everyone else as corruption, which would be disastrous.
They had a clear decision to make – investigate, and if necessary penalize City regardless of how powerful and lucrative they may be – or wallow in an overpowering stench of corruption.
Absolutely Bergkampfwagen and that’s why the theory that the PL don’t want to damage their brand further is utter nonsense.
As you say, if they hadn’t done due diligence and done everything by the book the criticism would have known no bounds.
I just hope the PL doesn’t “chicken out” when it comes to the sentencing of this once great club.
I think there will be more exposures like the Borussia Dortmund/ Haaland transfer revelation.
no both can be true
they can looking into an allegation and ensure it doesn’t happen again
yet think ….it doesn’t look good if we start kicking clubs out of the Prem forever
hence … expulsion won’t happen.
I think it will look positive, strong and send out a message to the world that cheating will not be tolerated in the English game.
No matter who you are, how big a club you are, who owns you and whether you have been successful in europe – cheat and face the consequences.
Scotland had the courage to do exactly that with Rangers and I fully expect the PL to do the same.
I hope so
I think there will be a companies somewhere
compromise
Rangers is slightly different
it would be harder for the punishment to demote City to bottom of the pyramid.
they can essentially relegate them then the EFL must decide
A lot has changed since yesterday.
Their hand may be forced after City’s aggressive response insinuating the EPL is prejudiced against them. City would have been much better off saying nothing, and quietly negotiating a settlement in the background.
As it stands, it’s all on.
yeah but the rules are the Prem can give them a points deduction but they can’t tell the EFL what to do
they are separate
my one hope ( and it’s hope ) ….City realise they are taking a hit to their image and there is no point fighting this and dragging it on and they agree to take the hit now
that’s why I think a deal under the table might be reached
Maybe, though I think it’s looking less likely today.
The language in their statement was really aggressive. Soriano is separately accusing the EPL of believing conspiracy theories. They claim their evidence of innocence was ignored by the commission due to bias.
It’s all PR spin, obviously, for an appeal, but some of it is pretty ridiculous, offensive stuff. Something tells me the royal family of the UAE is not used to being answerable to anyone…
As for how the EFL might respond if City are expelled, they’re not obliged to accept a club from the PL, and reports seem to indicate they’re not willing either. Which makes it plausible that City could get busted all the way down, though we’ll see.
Exactly
They will be saying this incase on appeal they need to say they are being wrongly treated
Don’t forget they are advised by the world’s best lawyers
This will all be tactical
And the Prem can’t do that as a sanction
The EFL is a separate company
Remember when UEFA said City were banned from Europe and City appealed
Just don’t get your hopes up
👍I agree with you Bergkampfwagen. City’s ownership may be many bad things but stupid is not one of them so it’s likely they will see the writing on the wall and negotiate after the initial tough stance.
Their owners are royals of a nation
They are used to bigger conflict and controversies then this
This is football …..they will be able to deal with this
Can’t reply to your previous responses above Dan for some reason.
Yes the EFL is a separate company – and as I said above (being separate) they are not obliged to accept a team that is expelled by the Premier League. The suggestion that City might be busted down to the Championship or even League Two therefore depends on the EFL agreeing to it also, and so far the EFL appears to be unsympathetic.
In the case of the EUFA sanctions, the case was overturned on appeal by CAS. There is no equivalent arbitration committee in England. They have to present their case to a new independent commission established by the EPL board.
This is really serious, and City are not helping their case…
Agree. I’ll be curious to see how their influence will be utilized in handling this case.
Once and always corrupt club
Ken, yep the punishment has to be very harsh. A gigantic fine, a transfer embargo, and demoted at least 2 divisions. If not then it will leave the gate open for other clubs to flout the laws.
Bergkampfwagen 💯%
Take away their trophies but erase them too. Meaning do not give them to the 2nd place finishers.
At the end of the day (barring winning on appeal), they have been caught and found guilty of cheating by breaching financial regulations. The cheated and won trophies. They may or may not have won the trophies if they had not cheated.
They can be fined but they won’t hurt City with a fine as the owners are so rich. They should have a large points deduction too
Again they won trophies through cheating and that’s wrong.
Let’s see what the judges say. My guess is that City won’t win but I’m not a legal expert so who know?
“ barring winning on appeal”
I agree. They seem really cocky that legal experts can get them off, or mitigate punishment a lot.
If you can afford them, There are legal experts who do amazing things, like Beckham kept his driving license signing the “super lawyer” despite obviously in the wrong. They do it through errors in procedure and admin make concrete 100% evidence inadmissible. You didn’t raise it quickly enough so it legally times out for example. Or Such and such proves your bias. Or you should have kept it private and as you didn’t you can’t now win in court. Don’t know how they do it, that’s just me guessing. But do it amazing lawyers can.
When Lord Pannick KC is on £5k per hour to sift through the information and launch an appeal on City’s behalf then you know he’s a very senior barrister and was employed in the UEFA case. The thought of the case being unproven or much reduced on a technicality would be a great result for them but the world will still know what they did to circumvent the rules.
As so many have pointed out, they would have reached the top legitimately soon enough without resorting to cheating on a massive scale. Arsenal waited over 20 years to get the league title; The City owners were too impatient and perhaps believed they had covered their tracks sufficiently. Either way, if any victory comes City’s way it will be a hollow one
One thing though. As football fans, not just Man City rivals, we all should feel a bit scared about this.
At universities everyone copies out of books – plagiarism – cheating – gets away with it, gets their awards, has the big party in their honour just like in football, even dons have done it when you start snooping into it, you only really get caught when people start snooping around.
So in super rich super competitive league, was it only Man City leaving rolled up wad tucked in players, managers, coaches, DOF, coo, shoes?
Man City were only caught by snooping.
Who wasn’t doing it?
I get your point absolutely. The difference from my perspective is that City were at it on a massive scale (if proven).
Do any of us know if the person who leaked City’s situation had looked into other clubs as well and come out with nothing significant or nothing at all? The speed at which they reached the top and the amount invested was huge
SueP and Moon Girl – I think we can rest assured that if our club were into any kind of mischief Arsene Wenger would not have stayed around that’s for sure!!
Likewise I don’t believe Pep or Mikel would have been involved in city’s corruption of the PL rule book.
I also think chelsea have really got away with their admitted cheating as a monetary fine was as much a nonsense as it will be if city receive one.
These two clubs were dominant from 2005 onwards with no boundaries set for them to buy trophies – there really wasn’t any need to cheat but both clubs did and on an industrial scale.
This is why I look on those Wenger days, when the Emirates was being built and these two serial cheating clubs were putting two fingers up at every other club, so differently to Arsenal fans who say he failed.
To keep our club in the top four and CL will one day be recognised as a phenomenal achievement against all the odds.
100%. Though it all “officially” started happening when Mancini joined, it went on well into the Pep years, and I find it hard to imagine he was completely unaware?
As for the Wenger years post-Emirates build, it does really puts a lot of things into perspective, including how impressively Wenger managed under the circumstances.
City’s long term cheating impacted multiple clubs financially – imagine how much different the league would have looked if those clubs had achieved a European place or won prize money fair and square…
Look up the Football Leaks case, that’s where this all started.
Multiple big (and small) European clubs were named for shady dealings…
…and the big question, the one earth shattering question…what was the single charge that City was found not guilty on?
There won’t be a suitable penalty that will satisfy all the non City fans but here’s my take. Too late to take away their trophies but definitely put an astrix to highlight that they were not above board. My penalty is a thirty points deduction for three consecutive seasons. I also don’t like the idea of a six year transfer ban. If anyone has noticed City’s main focus this transfer window has been to identify and sign some of the most promising youngsters available, almost in anticipation that such a ban would be on the cards. Yes, six years is a long time and it would be difficult for City to replace injured or out of form players with up and coming talent, however with some of the young talent they already have on their books they may just; just be able to get away with it.
Just to start with, over the course of these charges and how long it’s dragged on. City have on more than one occasion said that have emphatic proof of their innocence.
Should that be the case, why have they not provided this emphatic proof they talk of. I don’t know about other poster’s, but if I was accused of something and I had emphatic proof of my innocence, I would not be able to show it quick enough.
As for their punishment, Relegation to League 1. A minus point start to the season.
All trophy’s won in the period of their cheating removed along with the records books.
If all they get is a fine which will be outrageous by the way, they will think it worth it. Even if they we’re to get just a fine of £100,000000M, it would be just like them signing a £100,000000M player, and they’d think the cheating well worth it.
I know two teams that will be looking on with interest.
They don’t have any proof, it’s all BS.
Just more bad faith behaviour. It should be made an example of. As much as I’d also have liked to see Chelsea punished more severely too – their fine was ridiculously low – their *new* owners acted in (relative) good faith at least.
City’s owners have been there the whole time, and are still lying about it and trying to find technicalities to squirm out. Enough’s enough!
From what I’m hearing, for Man City to be relegated they will have to have a massive points deduction, as the PL and Football League are two different companies.
If they’ve been found guilty of secret payments to employees, such as not paying the real amount of tax, then the HMRC can get involved, like they did with Glasgow Rangers years ago. Glasgow Rangers then went into administration. I’m not saying Man City will go into administration considering how much money their owners have, but their owners might just say enough is enough and sell the club.
HD – one thing that seems to be public knowledge and something that city115 haven’t denied, is that Mancini was receiving two payments.
I assume the undeclared payment was done in such a way that only the manager and city owners were aware of, so this would open yet another can of worms with, as you say, HMRC getting involved.
Up to now it’s just been the PL versus city but if HMRC get involved the ramifications would be absolutely off the scale.
Some fans tend to write what they want to happen not what will
City will get punished but it will be a punishment they can come back from
If it helps us get another title that’s my focus
Whom would those fans be ? Can you please put a name to them.
Not going to answer ?
Indeed Ken. I saw part of a interview Mancini gave after Italys latest game where he was asked about the contract Man City gave him for coaching a team in the UAE for 4/5 days a year which was worth well over £1m. He said it had nothing to do with him 🙄😂
Lol, utterly shameless…
I think it was paid to him by another football club. That’s how they had off the book payments to him.
But why just Mancini? The only person they employed using this off the book cheat? Really?
I think with added scrutiny this could spread to other clubs. Why not Arsenal? Why not Wenger? After all he works for FIFA!
My daddy told me, a major British manufacture got in trouble supplying prostritutes to get a deal signed. Off the book payments and other sweetners It’s probably standard practice how big business operates.
As far as I understand it, in the worst case scenario for City, the PL could expel them.
The EFL then would have to agree to admit them to a lower league (Championship or below) outside the normal relegation/promotion system. If the EFL refuses to make a place for them, then they would have to apply to rejoin at the National League level.
I doubt that will happen, since they are such a valuable club for the EPL. Given other recent cases, they’ll probably just get a points deduction knocking them somewhere into mid-table, a big fine and a transfer ban for a few years, or some sort of combination of those. Maybe enough of a points deduction that they are forced into a relegation fight, but seems unlikely.
And yeah, on top of this, they seem exposed to criminal, and especially civil, litigation. They could potentially be paying out for years to come…
I would say that there is a big difference between what Man City did the other recent cases, as the Man City case is over quite a few number of years, whereas the others weren’t.
Another thought that’s come to my mind is will teams that were knocked out of the CL by Man City take action if Man City are found guilty of the charges ? Will be interesting to see if they do.
I agree, and they’ve continued to act in bad faith as well. But they’re just such a valuable franchise for the EPL that I figure they’ll find some way to keep them around…
It’s definitely going to be interesting to see what other lawsuits are brought. I bet there’s a line forming already!
If they do that then football is dead,and if I was Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest I would spend spend spend
You are a person with excellent morals.
Unfortunately though, large commercial enterprises usually tend to behave as if “fiduciary responsibility” (aka preservation of wealth) is more important than “doing what’s right”.
I could totally be wrong, but my suspicion is that they’ll try to find a way to not lose the advantages of Man City as a brand with a global fanbase, even if it’s not the largest in the Prem.
It makes me laugh that lots of City fans are blaming everyone but the people who should be getting the blame. And that’s the owners.
Instead there to busy having a go at opposition fans for daring to give their opinions on amongst other things their potential punishments.
And their getting a strop on because opposition fans are lets face it, enjoying their predicament.
Just to remind them, if the shoe was on the other foot, they’d be doing exactly the same.
And again just to remind them, aim you’re anger at the people that run you’re club. There the ones that have let you down badly. While you’re having a go at us, their getting a free-ride.
I agree mate
I would be fuming with them
They had the resources to compete without cheating so got greedy
I guess their argument will be let’s just wait and see what’s made official after appeal
Something else has crossed my mind regarding the City cheating debate.
Think back to when Arsenal moved into the Emirates, and how they had to sell their best players. But they did it the right way to getting success, even if it did take the amount of time it did.
Has anyone else spotted the irony, the club we were selling our best players to were Manchester City. You couldn’t make it up could you. 🤷♂️
Yeah exactly. Though officially at least, Adebayor and Touré were bought under Mark Hughes, before the cheating began in the Mancini era.
Ive seen a surprising amount of people calling for some mercy. none for me. A decade of cheating and robbing other teams of trophies and celebrations, and relegating other clubs and managers losing their jobs, normal everyday people being sacked due to their employer being relegated… Get rid of this cheating club and kick them out the league
Man city should be removed from football fullstop.In 1919 Leeds city cheated and the then football league removed the team for ever.They later became Leeds Utd.There should be no mercy,with everything they won removed from all record books.They could then come back as Manchester AFC in the lowest decision of the football league.
Subject to further review, lol.:
If it’s been say 17 years (or whatever #) since serious infractions began taking place, then there should be points deductions going forward for the same number of years. The number of points deducted could be weighted most heavily in the first few seasons before eventually being phased out. All trophies for the period since the infractions began through the current season should be forfeited. No continuing benefit going forward and reversal of prior period advantage and nonrecognition of prior ill-gotten gains. The amount and timing of future point deductions could be a negotiating point. Individual clubs should be able to seek financial remedies for prior seasons if that is their desire.
Of course the investigation was up to 2018,so what about 2018-2026?.So you think they suddenly stopped cheating in 2018?
That is a critical point – there seems to be no evidence of city115 continuing, but the fact that they were still profiting from the 2018 scandal by using the monies won by their corruption helped them buy world class players .
It’s a never ending case of criminality and I’m starting to believe they and chelsea (let’s not firget they were also habitual cheats) have dragged the PL to its knees since 2005!!
How can we believe anything either of them did was legitimate?!
I agree it is a critical point. For example, if City114 has benefited from 2009 through 2026, then that 17 year benefit needs to be stopped now and reversed by deduction of points in 17 future years and official removal of their trophy wins from recognition.
won’t happen
Gee, really?
I do fear allot of Gooners are acting with their Arsenal hats on
if you fake the emotion away for a second allot of the sanctions your asking for won’t happen
there’s a difference between what you want to happen compared to what you really think will happen
TBH, I’m just happy that everyone now knows that they’re cheats and that they will forever have to live with it and all the shite that will come their way.
Unlike some, I don’t have much time for their fans, who still seem to be in denial. When much of your clubs finanances is from such a corrupt source, what did you expect?
I’m sure that the actual punishments will be severe enough to permanently scar City.
And before it’s pointed out to me, yes, I’ve always been uneasy about one of our main sponsors.
Even if they don’t lose their titles, every time anyone looks at their trophy cabinet for the rest of eternity, they’ll be reminded of the absolute corruption of the club and its owners during this period. We can only hope it’s a lesson others take seriously.
No kidding? We’re all so silly.
I’d just like to throw another thought out there. Now we know this has dragged on and on, and it suited City that it has.
Now whether this was an option or not I don’t know. But I wonder what would’ve happened if there could have been a transfer embargo on City. Just maybe they’d have cooperated a heck of a lot quicker had this been a scenario.
You’re thoughts fellow posters!.
To ininitiate a transfer embargo Derek, I assume proof of wrongdoings would have to have been obtained.
As it seems the PL have only just announced their guilty verdict one assumes that said embargo will be one of the punishments available for consideration.
Ken1945,
I had the same thoughts, but just wondered a what if scenario.
That said, it still seems wrong that a team with that many charges against them, still have cart Blanche to go out and spend money on transfers like water.
Maybe a compromise to a transfer embargo, could be their only allowed to loan said player. Although this would not suit the selling team. So this is another non-starter really.
Forgive me, I’m just thinking out loud. 😂👍
I think we’re still waiting on an official announcement from the Premier League, Ken, although I don’t suppose they’ll tell us anything much more than we don’t already know.
…anything much more than what we already know. My grammar🤣
Jax,
What’s wrong with you’re Gran Ma?. 😂
yeah they won’t publicly release anything without City’s permission
and have to be careful what they say as City on appeal could claim they have not been treated fairly during the process
Interesting point Dan, but if the PL, after due diligence. have announced city are guilty then I can’t see how they can claim they haven’t been treated fairly.
What I also find puzzling is why the club doesn’t produce the evidence they claim will exonerate them – it just doesn’t make sense and I see Poch is now claiming the spuds should be awarded the PL title after finishing second……where will it all end?
no I mean they could claim it’s unfair treatment if the PL announce anything without City’s approval
it’s meant to be private unless both parties agree
hence if City appeal we still might not know everything
that’s why I hope a compromise can be reached else this will drag on and on
A claim that publishing the conclusions amounts to “unfair treatment” wouldn’t stand up.
The Premier League publishing the outcomes of formal independent commissions is standard regulatory practice governed by their rulebook.
They published the statement today.
Yeah followed by a Man City statement lol
Both have to agree to any statements about the outcome
That’s the process
Not sure what you’re getting at.
Nowhere is it stated that there is an agreement that any press releases from the EPL will be approved by City first.
We already know that they didn’t get to approve, or even review, or know the timing of, the EPL findings release.
Their appeal would go to a new independent commission. The commissioners will be appointed from the Premier League’s Judicial Panel, and they will make their own additional findings statement. Again, City don’t get to approve that.
If you mean the eventual sanctions, those will be declared by the same commission. Again, without advance approval from City.
The only way this process doesn’t play out, is if Man City don’t appeal. Then the EPL and Man City might come to a settlement at the sanctions hearing.
After their statement it looks certain that City will appeal.
Once the report was made public then both could talk
That’s totally different to making agreements to not “publicly release anything without City’s permission”.
That’s just normal action and response.
think we are talking about something different
Ken is talking about a statement I made earlier that the PL won’t make a statement unless City say it’s okay as that’s the process else part of City appeal could be they are being treated unfairly
however the moment the commission released their report then yes either can now comment
Ken, if City have any evidence that might support their doubtful claim of innocence, then I think it would be with their lawyers in readiness to combat the verdict when it’s officially released by the Premier League.
You’d think that by now, all evidence from both sides would have been heard, and it’s just now up to the sanctions panel.
Jax just read that the person who set up the three man commission to look into the 115 charges is “an Arsenal member” whatever that might mean!!
Didn’t have a pen handy to write down his name, but it’s on Facebook – is this the smoking gun city are claiming?
Done it again!!! 1945!!!
Sir Hickinbottom who leads the appeal panel is a non partisan. If the important man was a true Arsenal man the verdict would have been given 2 years before when we’re neck and neck with them in the title race
Ken1945,
you’re doing very well for a 181 year old, just what is you’re secret. 😂😉
Pocchetino today said we lived in a period of deception and no penalty can repair it. Hull City owner used similar words. Tony Pulis also.
We shouldn’t see in the league a blue team from Manchester. They cheated the world. If they did it for one or two years okay but they did it for 9 long years. They’ve no instrument to win any through their appeals. It was daylight robbery
The premier league have now confirmed Ornstein’s coup
SueP, I’ve just seen the reports. Hopefully the book is thrown at the cheating sons of bitches.
They’ve got to respond by Friday HD
Only way I can see them not appealing is all parties agree to end this now with a punishment City can come back from
If not City will drag this on and on and call the Prems bluff
I’m sure City will try everything they can to squirm out of the worst sanctions. The ownership thinks they’re above the law.
I think the Prem probably now has to continue the prosecution rather than settle, because the case is so egregious. They might, though, but if they settled for anything less than a major, major set of sanctions – banning the owners, fining City massively, and including a transfer ban and a huge points deduction of some sort, they’ll be (rightly) accused of giving City favourable treatment. The precedent here is that penalties were meted out to other clubs like Chelsea, Forest and Everton for rulebreaking. Anything that appears soft could have explosive follow-on effects and be very damaging to the league. In future, other clubs would be able to make cases that their cheating wasn’t as bad so they should also be treated with kid gloves.
Bergkampfwagen,
Regards the City punishment, I for one wouldn’t blame the likes of Everton and Nottingham Forest having their lawyers on stand by to sue if City are not punished with a points deduction amongst other sanctions.
Damn straight Derek.
Any club even remotely affected must be thinking about whether they can get something from this.
It’s going to be a story for years to come, it’s the biggest corruption story in football since Calciopoli.
yeah I agree
In terms of scandal I also thought the Super League was terrible and Senegal in the AFCON Final
But I accept a different kind of cheating
Yes SueP, that’s the latest they put in their appeal.
This should force a sale of Man City. I don’t see how the owners can’t be banned now.
Won’t happen
According to Dan that means that city115 have agreed to this release.
Does this mean that they have accepted all the charges?
I note that the one they weren’t convicted of was not cooperating with the PL regarding one charge.
Yes obviously
Hence they have released own statements
I still can’t see the smoking gun that will clear city115 of all charges Dan is – funny that wouldn’t you say?!?!
And Ken the commission has released the report so now both can comment
For some:
Loving City and Pep might be one ‘worshippable’ thing for you but they were never clean winners. Period! You think they’ve instruments to reverse all the 114 charges? Their case is untenable at the moment. Expect we may not see them for sometime in the league. Their morale is crushed. You remember Ben the 100m runner from Canada who did doping several times?
Petro Arab dollar can easily pay the 1 billion fines but they need harder non financial punishments which we’re going to see from Sir Hickinbottom as a lesson for serial dopers cheats
We will see them in the league
They need to be removed from football fullstop.Not just from the Premier league or EFL.They need to start from a new beginning Manchester AFC.The Premier league need to force the owners out otherwise what is the point.If the punishment is soft I could see other clubs with money doing something similar
That won’t happen mate
Why?
Because if you give Man City nothing to come back from they will just take this to a higher court, it drags on for years and no ones it
City would argue it’s not proportionate and they are being targeted . Don’t forget this is a club who been around allot longer then these charges
If you do that you harm the brand and no one benefits at all
Try selling the Prem as the best in the world but by the way we now kick out clubs
Just won’t happen
Dan,
The brand shouldn’t come into it. They’ve cheated and they deserve to have the book thrown at them.
And as for you’re quote regards throwing teams out, I don’t care how big they are. And lets not forget that City although being a big club, have only become a bigger club after these cheating owners took over.
And just to say that other country’s haven’t shied away from kicking teams out of their respective leads. One of Italy’s biggest, Juventus were unceremoniously kicked out of their league. And they had to work their way back up.
Why should it be any different for Mancheater City.
Totally disagree on the damaging the Premieshior brand.If allowing Man City to get back into the Premiership after say one year in the Championship what message does that send out?It sends a message that cheating is acceptable and will encourage other teams to do the same.Whereas removing the cheats for good will.STOP any other team trying the same thing .I feel the punishment will be soft which could be the being of the demise of the league
No actually, it’s far, far worse for the Premier League brand if a big club is convicted of cheating at this scale and fighting with the league about it, then loses on appeal, and they DON’T respond with a heavy penalty.
Let’s not confuse any short term financial interests the league has in keeping City around with the integrity of their brand, that’s far more valuable.
If they don’t punish City commensurately, I don’t believe I’m exaggerating when I say they will lose significant credibility as an organization. The corruption will only escalate.
I think you may be right. I wouldn’t want to bury the club indefinitely but there’s no point in diluting the consequences to in effect be rendered meaningless
Absolutely correct 👍
FFS, get real!!!
So cheating is now acceptable?
From the very beginning since the Abu Dhabi takeover the administration of Man City was tactfully organized to commit sporting crimes. Soriano and Begristian knew each other since childhood in Spain and they added colkaboratirs in Italian Mancini, Pellegrini and later Guardiola.
The report details there are highly respected individuals who collaborated by witnessing falsely and tried to stop the inquiry.
The next Man City fixture vs Liverpool at Anfield (if at all held) may have a fairytale ending like Liverpool 11-5 Man City. Could be in scoreline or goal attempts
I liked what Rooney suggested regarding the punishment. Unseen points reduction that effect relegation and not to see them again in the EPL additionally ban them from signing players in many windows. Keane also advised City players to throw their winning medals in the bins because they were ill begotten through dirty methods whether the players knew it or not
They should be made an example off. You don’t need to re-write history in a complicated way if you strip them of all their trophies and titles.
Secondly the financial punishment should be larger than the amount to cheated with. I read 900 million. The fine should be at least 1 billion paid over a number of years and sale of the club by the crrent owners is frozen until the fina has been paid.
Releagiotn this season and a freeze on buying new players or selling players for more than they bought them for.
The punishment should result in City to have to take years to rebuild fairly and as a result losing many of their current stars.
Relegating them this season only for them to be back next season as if nothing happened is not good enough.
They would have never assmebled the current squad without their titles which they bought on the back of cheating. So IMO this squad should fall apart as a result of the punishment.
(And this has nothing to do with wanting Haaland 😉
Ian Wright: It’s cheating on an industrial scale and requires unprecedented punishment. It’s messy for City to face Liverpool next at Anfield. Klopp was chasing City for years.
won’t impact current players
nothing to do with them
That’s the point though Dan – without the cheating previously and the money earnt while doing it carries forward and allows the club to buy players and offer them lucrative contracts.
So while I agree that the players did nothing wrong, they were signed using tainted money.
yeah but do you think a Enzo Fernandes cares ?
do you really think for rest of seasons he’s going to feel low because he’s not sure if David Silvas title win counts or not ?
Again I think allot of you write what you want to happen as fact
I think you write to protect your statement that this isn’t the biggest scandal in football history!!
I don’t give a c**p what any city player thinks or does. That’s for them to come to terms with.
When we lost to city in last season’s cup final, they were playing players who had been purchased illegally – it’s as simple as that if the charges are correct.
What punishment would you give Dan?
no mate I mention the players in response to the suggestion that it will impact the current players
As for this is the biggest scandal that’s an opinion based on the facts that have happened .
When someone writes Arsenal will go unbeaten, that’s an opinion based on what you want
what punishment would I give ?
Depends on if your asking realistic or idealsitci
A bit like the Super League, my ideal punishment was never realistic
so are you asking what I would want, what I think , what I would realistically do ?
Because Dan the Arsenal fans has a different answer to Dan if he worked on the panal
Why not just answer the question as “Dan the person?”
Bringing in “Arsenal will go unbeaten “ has nothing whatsoever to do with the article in question and aren’t you the one who refuses to answer questions or discuss anything not related to an article?
Impact on current players? Indeed and Haarland was a current player (and still is) when we lost in the cup final – he was purchased illegally by city so should he still be playing in the PL this season?
These really are simple questions Dan and I find your obstinacy in answering them, after all the criticism you have laid at the feet of Liverpool fans, quite weird.
Here’s my answers:
Any player who was signed during the time in question should be immediately banned from playing if it can be proven that they or their representatives were involved in illegal activity.
Liverpool fans were exonerated front any troubles caused in Paris Agreed?
As an Arsenal fan I want all forms of corruption erased from the game – why would your opinion differ just because you support one club?
yeah I can’t see players getting banned Ken as it wouldn’t be their fault
I brought Arsenal going unbeaten up as an example of when some write what they want to happen
I can say this isn’t the biggest scandal simply because I think what happend in Italy was bigger
I haven’t got an issue asking your question but I’m saying are you asking me in an ideal world or a realistic punishment?
because if I said they need to start at the bottom of league 2 I know logically that’s not going to happen
so I would give them a punishment that they agree they won’t appeal to protest the intergrity of the Prem from this dragging on for years
to clarify that’s based on the facts so far
I respect their right to appeal
and that would be an example of taking the emotion out of it and looking at it objectively
are the Prem going to ban Halland ?
not a chance lol
That’s why I asked are you saying idealistic or what would be a realistic outcome
I’m asking you in today’s world as a fan of football.
If Haaland was proven to be part of the group that ensured the true transfer figure and players salary was covered up (this goes for every player at every club of course) then the PL would have no choice but to ban all involved wouldn’t you agree?
If not then they are condoning the cheating and corruption.
That’s how I see it objectively – if you don’t cut out the source it will keep coming back.
You say they wouldn’t ban him why?
Other top players have been banned including a English international Peter Swann who was banned for life I do believe.
But let’s not get hooked up on Haarland who wasnt actually signed during the years in question – I’ve just seen a list of the “significant players “ signed during that period and how much their stated transfers cost:
Adebayor-Tecez-Lescott-Santa Cruz-Kolo Toure-Barry-Dzeko-Yaya Toure-Balotelli-Silva-Kolarov-Milner-Aguero-Nasri-Savic-Clichy-Garcia-Nastasic-Rodwell-Sinclair-Malcom-Jovetic-Ferbandinho-Negredo-Navas-Bony-Mangala-Fernando-Caballero-De Bruyne-Sterling-Otamendi-Delph-Stones-Sane-Jesus-Gundigan-Bravo-Nolito-Laporte-Mendy-Walker-Bernado-Ederson-Danilo
And the author says significant players only!!
The reported transfer fees amounted to £1.2 Billion while the extra add ons amounted to £830.68 million.
There seems to be evidence that cover ups were continuing after this oeriod if the statement from a ex Borussia Dortmund person is correct.
Do we, as normal everyday fans of football actually realize the names,money and corruption involved?
They wouldn’t ban him because it’s nothing to do with him.
Have you read anything in theb report that says that
If I go to a job and my employers pay me ….. It’s not my responsibility how they pay me
Plus Halland wasn’t signed in the period investigated so trust me won’t happen. No player will be banned
As a fan of football I would try and make a deal where City don’t appeal so this isn’t dragged on for longer as it harms the integrity further
So you have to give sanctions that they can come back from else logically this is going to be in court for years and hurt the brand
I would give them a points deduction that essentially relegated them ( then it’s up to the EFL )
I would fine them the approx 900 million they essentially over spent / hid
And for the next 9 years they have restrictions on their FFP so they can still trade players to function but on half what the others have
I would accept that now or we will review after the appeal
That way I have done three things …..
Ended this mess to protect the Prem
Given the rest a huge advantage over Man City in the future
And allowed City to function still but never at the level they did
Swann put a bet on his team to lose!
Halland according the report has done nothing
I bet you a million pound no player is suspended
This is what I mean by take the emotion out of it and deal with facts
What would you give them
Dan – I said that Haaland wasnt involved in the charges or decisions- but what you’re ignoring is the accusation that a sports director from Borussia Dortmund has reported happened.
1. If true, then the PL would need to follow it up do you agree?
Of course, if you were involved in your employment details, such as expenses, results etc then you would be involved-that has happened to me during my employment period.
Again, as a football fan, would you not want to see the kind of corruption city have been found guilty off, punished to the maximum immediately?
If city wish to appeal, they have to have evidence that would change the original decision – they say they have irrefutable evidence but have failed to show it.
Could that be because they haven’t actually got any evidence and their aim is to delay, hoping that the PL will cave in to protect, as you put it, the brand and its integrity?
My views on what should happen regarding punishment?
1. Strip them of every trophy they won during the period involved and leave the name of the winner blank.
2. I would give them a points deduction immediately and one that would ensure their relegation from the PL and carry on the difference into the Championship in order that they face relegation from there as well.
3. Stop them from any transfers in for three years.
4. Fine them in line with your suggestion.
5. Insist that city allow the continuation of their books, following on from the revelation by Borussia Dortmund.
6. Give city two weeks to produce the “irrefutable evidence” that will prove their innocence and if they don’t/can’t carry out points 1 to 5.
I have read that city knew about the decision as far back as June but were still allowed to spend on transfers – that in itself is mind boggling.
As for Swann, I know why he was banned, it was my way of showing that names mean nothing when found guilty.
But Halland isn’t guilty of anything?
So trust me , zero City player is getting banned
If anything I feel sorry for the City players
Especially the ones who played during the period investigated
Whatever happens (unless City prove they really are being wrongly treated which they are not ) their trophies are tainted
like it or not they’re compelled to bear the brunt of the problem
who is ?
They won’t care
I agree if they lift the title it will be tainted but I don’t think any player in that dressing room will be impacted by charges not related to them
yes of course if they wake up tomorrow and they are in league 2 then they might be on the phone to their agent
but currently going off Man City statement that won’t be happening anytime soon
Regards the Mancheating City owners continued claims to have evidence of their innocence. Why in the world if you have the proof you talk of, do you then let this saga drag on for thee years or whatever it is now.
As I’ve said on a previous post, if I were accused of something and I had proof of my innocence, I wouldn’t be able to show it fast enough.
Now maybe I’m being sinical here, but I think you can forgive me my Sinicism, as were talking about Mancheating City here, but could the fact they’ve let this drag on for so long have anything to with them trying to create this so called evidence of proof that they purport to have.
Sinical or not, I wonder. 🤔
It’s hard to argue for “Mancheating City” at this moment and leads to questioning the love of the person for integrity and fairness.
Let’s see from the victims’ point as well
They got to present their “irrefutable” evidence already. Not just documentation and receipts, but also witnesses, at the independent commission hearings.
The commissioners decided that the evidence didn’t prove their innocence, and the witnesses were lying. They don’t get to introduce “new” evidence on appeal, including any new explanations now they know how the commission ruled. Can’t really see another commission ruling the previous commission was biased against City, given the first commission was made up of highly professional barristers.
City look cooked…
It’s not an individual sport. It’s a team sport. These players represent Manchester City whose name is tainted tarnished despised across the globe. They’ve no gut to fight for a cheat; even they’re not sure their win counts. They wake up every morning what the news is with the penalties. Trust me they now spend more time with their agents.
trust me they won’t
let’s say Man City appeal this , the majority of players will stay
How many Arsenal players threatened to leave when the club said they were joining the Super League
take the emotion out of it
Joining the Super League has no bearing whatsoever with the corruption charges that city have been found guilty of committing.
All clubs involved from the PL have been punished and it didn’t affect any other club – so why do you keep on repeating this nonsense comparison?
Of course I haven’t taken the emotion out of it as there wasn’t any there in the first place just facts.
I was responding to Amba mate
Just change the name from ken1945 to amba. My response is 100% same lol
And logically so is mine lol
You often write something will happen based on wanting it too
Trust me City players will be fine
Think of it like this , if your Halland right now what is your worse case scenario?
The PL decide to follow up on the Borussia Dortmund ex coach statement!!
Yeah but that’s a what if
In terms of the current situation, the facts in front of us , Halland won’t be banned
But that would be the “worst case scenario “ for Haaland which is the question you asked Dan.
it was a response to amba
giving an instance where players won’t care as much as he thinks
if they wake up tomorrow and are in League 2 then maybe but they are not going to be calling their agents because of what happend years ago
long as Enzo Fernandes is getting paid his wage he’s happy
Not taking sides, but I would think that most City players would be quite worried about their own financial arrangement with the club, especially regarding bonuses, which would probably be cancelled if they get relegated.
And those who came through the academy, like O’Reilly, Foden, and Lewis have a personal connection.
Also, I doubt that many are looking forward to Premier League games now for the abuse that they’re going to get from opposing supporters.
Not a good time to be a City player TBH.
🤣🤣🤣
This is it Jax. Some are in unwinnable war. Sorry
I think the Man City players are already affected by this. Is it just chance they are error prone in these internationals. The vitriol thrown at them in all away games will be in their minds.
They joined Man City to win things, they are now under contract with cheats playing somewhere in league structure below the Prem. Dan mentioned Enzo. One the reasons he wanted out at Chelsea is they finished tenth, he wanted to be at a club winning things.
There’s loads of ways it’s already on the back of the current players.
Right so he’s either told by City they will appeal and even take to high court which takes years
And if they wake up tomorrow in league 2 ( won’t happen ) he goes to another club
Affecting them now Dan. Not just looking at never winning trophies at Man City in their career, but looking at their contract to see how easy it will be to escape.
All sorts weighing on their minds Dan. If you were a City player, would you wish to travel to Anfield in anything other than an armoured tank? Liverpool likely biggest losers during these years of City cheating and hiding it.
Well it depends what my employers tell me
If they are appealing it and it take years and then take to high court I wouldn’t be bothered
Then if I was a Halland I just say …..worse case I’ll go to Barcelona lol
They wont care about Anfield , they were not the ones who cheated
They are professional players who will treat it like a normal tough game at Anfield
Remember when they were first charged …..they won the treble
Go look at what happend in Italy , bigger then this ….Italian players won the World Cup
Just think this isn’t going to go how some think
Hope I’m wrong
No way is what happened with Juve bigger than what Man City have done !!!!
Yeah that’s a wild take. A reminder for those who assume Calciopoli was bigger than this:
“Magistrates in Naples formally investigated 41 people, and looked into 19 Serie A matches from the 2004–05 season and 14 Serie A matches from the 2005–06 season.”
While it involved more clubs and also referees, the scale was FAR smaller than what Man City’s owners are accused of. That they didn’t properly deal with all clubs involved either is a lesson for the EPL. Calciopoli had a huge impact on the Italian league and caused a decline in attendance, finances and ultimately results at international level. The EPL has to sanction City very forcefully or the same could happen in England.
Exactly Bergkampfwagen. The punishment has to be so severe that it acts as a deterrent to any other club in the future.
For the Premier League to have any USP, it’s that it’s competitive and not gerrymandered. This is an attack in the USP and the money it makes EVERYBODY. Man City are friend less.
Everton in relegation fight had 4 points taken for breaking just one of the rules city have. And that exceeded by such a margin call, it was harsh. Yet Everton could do nothing about the judgement.
Anyone who thinks Man City have a play here are not paying attention.
Correct me where wrong Dan, I’m a party girl not lawyer, but it’s not in Man City and their expensive fancy Dan (no offence intended) lawyers to take it into high court. A High Court challenge is only permitted on narrow legal grounds, such as the tribunal lacking proper jurisdiction, fraud, bad faith, or a serious procedural irregularity that caused substantial prejudice.
Man City cannot themselves, place it in the High Court to re-examine the facts or retry the case on its merits, strict grounds for a high court hearing are needed. Quite rightly or we would all be in there, and you’d need a billion high courts. Do City have a fraud, bad faith, or a serious procedural irregularity available that you can see? Part of the reason it’s taken this long is to make sure there isn’t such things.
They have only two days left to appeal. They do have an automatic right to the internal appeal, but no automatic right to the high court.
But the internal review process is only 12 weeks maximum before it’s heard. What I’m saying is, from this point now, City have no means to drag it on for years, if their appeal case is flimsy. the Appeal Board won’t hold a full rehearing of the case or re-examine all the witnesses, it will only review the original decision to see if the commission misapplied, the rules or made an irrational judgment. If City’s arguments lack depth, the panel will dismiss the appeal remarkably quickly within its five-day sitting.
They cannot appeal to CAS, their PL contract does not allow it.
Guilty on 114 out of 115 charges including extensive financial deception, misrepresenting revenue, and failing to act in good faith. A massive 750-page evidence index detailing a systematic, decade-long layout of “sham” commercial contracts used to disguise £900 million ($1.19bn) in secret owner funding. City’s case is flimsy, what rabbit from the hat says they didn’t now the evidence of massive deception and rule breaking, it is so stark and out there they did.
This is game over, sentenced done and dusted before next February Dan. This day shortly after next Christmas, was always coming.
All the current City players now know this.
What amazes me is how many infractions were clearly intentional disregard of the rules and blatant attempts at deception. They were not just misjudgments, mistakes, misinterpretations, bending of the truth, taking advantage of grey areas in the law or required accounting/reporting, or other manipulations of situations for gain. The nature of any effective appeal will be fascinating to see play out. I’ve already noted that some gaslighting and attempts to control the narrative are already under way in response to the verdict.
“ gaslighting and attempts to control the narrative are already under way in response to the verdict “
In the old movies, the bad guys are still trying those lines on, even with the noose round their neck. Man City have run out of road. They are out of tunes on their fiddle. Before the sun sets 12 weeks 5 days from Friday, this seasons points deductions, first of many seasons points deductions, will have been taken.
And it won’t be so much a fine, it will be a huge pot to fairly satisfy every diddled club and unhappy claimant.
And from Anfield onward, the Man City players will experience a howl and aggression they never even imagine they could experience in their careers. I just hope the overly fanatical scousers don’t over do it, and get themselves in trouble.
“ Just think this isn’t going to go how some think”
I think Man City thought the same as you are now thinking. That when it comes to denouement, Prem League wouldn’t want Man City kicked out the Prem, wouldn’t want the owners money turned away, wouldn’t want to do anything to unnecessarily further damage the Prems reputation – that a behind closed doors conversation would happen, a deal struck. Instead what we are getting from the PL is that they have no interest in sitting down with City behind closed doors. What we are seeing on the Man City faces, is they are not going to get a conversation and a deal, that PL have no intention to mitigate the full force of the punishment.
oh I hope you are correct dude but lets wait and see i guess
…even take to high court?
If City want too mate
That’s what I’m saying …..this idea that a club from essentially run by a nation is going to lay down , have their belly ticked and never exist again and do nothing ?
That’s why the Prem will give a sanction that City have to be able to come back from
If not , they will just fight it and then the Prem looks terrible
Another reason for the Premier League to bar or restrict sovereign wealth or state ownership of clubs.
Keeping in mind that Arsenal’s biggest sponsor is from this very source😉😏🤣
Yeah Jax but does this option sit well with the govt’s initiative to drive the economy? These state sponsored investors come with their untold GDPs
‘If City want too mate“
No Dan. Getting into the high court isn’t a choice, it’s a dependency on strong grounds to appeal. No time wasters allowed in there.
no but after appeal they are entitled to go down this route if they feel they are not getting a fair hearing which essentially what they are implying
Yes, but, The points will be deducted before they even file a case with high court. They will be bottom of the Prem after Christmas. Much to the relief of Tottenham fans.
Once they fail the PL appeal, any challenge brought to the High Court must be filed within exactly 28 days.
If the judge decides the case has no real prospect of success, it will be summarily rejected on the papers within a few weeks to a few months.
So it’s not even going to get as far next seasons fixture computer whirling away on time. Because to get into high court they need a convincing case something was wrong with how they were treated, not just crocodile tears, but with evidence supporting a convincing argument. Evidence deemed worth exploring once inside is only way to get inside. What on earth can that be? It’s taken time to get here so 700 page document, every page detailing exactly when and how they cheated, prevents any way into the high court. What do they have that’s new and original to add, that’s clearly unfair treatment, that gets them through the High Court door?
For City, this is quite an end of an era. In about 14 weeks they have no options left available but take the 75 point deduction, and go down at the end of the season.
I think you might be disappointed
City will only be bottom if they agree not to fight
Think they only go to High court if sanction is like right your permanently kicked out of the PL
“ City will only be bottom if they agree not to fight”
Actually Dan, If they lose the internal PL review, they will be bottom even before trying to take the fight further than that. Shortly into the new year you will definitely see the league table with City bottom, after a points deduction designed to relegate them.
This is now actually happening to them – at some would say a far too long last.
To go back to the original point you were making, surely this movement making it their last season in PL, does now impact the players, and the whole club, in their push for trophies this season. Surely the errors and match withdrawals all City players making in these internationals is no fluke, they really are going to full apart football wise quite quickly now.
Unless they decide not to appeal I think this goes on beyond Xmas
Don’t try to frighten us with this endless High Court meddling. Within 3 months the appeal process ends and from there the Panel takes 1 more month to pass the decision. This is according to the EPL appeal handling procedure.
Once the implementation of the sanctions start the Sham FC may opt to go to HC but already the decisions are being executed. Surely they won’t go this far as they know well what they were doing
that is why the punishment has to allow them to come back and function
lets say they are banned from the Prem and the EFL don’t want them then it would be a case of they don’t lose anything by fighting it as much as possible
Give them a proportionate sanction and they might not
To be thrown out the prem needs a vote called, and two thirds of Prem Clubs voting for it. That what leads to league 2 football., as entry rules for joining EFL. I agree with you Dan, it’s More likely immediate transfer ban, points deduction that relegates them, fine used to pay damages to clubs hurt by the crime and offset court cases, further point deductions once/if ever back in Prem league.
Yet even that is existential threat to Man City. If owners depart, not easy find buyers. Sides relegated players depart on mass, hard to stabilise from further relegation. They can go into to a doom spiral from there. Sell their ground for housing, and share with Bury or Salford.
The HC is only concerned if there was a fair impartial hearing process or not. As we all know it was not a hastily arranged process that in fact took several years so the HC has no ground to reversing the decision. HC is not about the weight of the sanctions but about the fairness of the process
What’s a ‘proportionate sanction’ for you? Only monetary fines which is a slap on the wrist? Bear in mind the cheating was on industrial scale, some witnesses gave false accounts, financial records tampered that even concern hmrc also
I answered that mate
I can’t wait to see the vociferous Anfield faithful rattling anyone new or old that come representing Maincheater Seety
The current crop of City players who signed knowing that the result of the commission was due anytime don’t have a huge amount of sympathy from me. They and their advisers took a punt on the surety of its outcome or just didn’t care enough to consider the consequences. Joe Hart is also in denial as it appears Guardiola as well. It must be awful to have your glory years in doubt.
As for fans and players forever having those wonderful memories of trophies and leagues won to enjoy, I’d be gutted if Arsenal at any time were found out for cooking the books to such an extent that even after the funny stuff stopped, their ability to keep funding success continued unabated. I’d feel cheated. I absolutely wouldn’t revel in former success built on a lie
Listening to an old interview that Wenger gave about playing according to the rules certainly resonates now.
Wow SueP as usual my highest regards. They came to share from the spoils, fruit of corruption
Spot on how we are feeling Sue. The basis of the rules was based on trust, they only worked with everyone self policing – showing respect to everyone else and the league – come into a different country and respect for how they do things, by sticking to the rules.
Like our owners did with the Super League ?
Diversion. This discussion under the topic may break records for the most comment and shouldn’t be closed until we hear the relegation of Sham FC
makes no sense
I got zero reason to do that
I agree there should be a relegation
list what I said won’t happen and see how many I get correct
when I get most right watch the usual …..how many said that , etc
so the first one will be apparently they will he bottom of the Prem by time they kick off at Anfield lol
….see how many i get correct? Check your standing in the Predictions Game lol
The hero whistleblower of the century Rui Pinto said Infantino is cancer on football and should be removed. According to Pinto the then UEFA SG Infantino unethically helped Man City to effect the reduction of Uefa’s punishments.
Etihad airlines already threatening to sue PL. The wagons are circling. Will the PL come out fighting and go for the jugular or will it negotiate toward minimal face saving actions to placate everyone but the fans?
It’s just been reported that City’s irrefutable evidence is that the funds in question was provided by the Abu Dhabi government and due to their ownership of Etihad airlines it’s a state owned entity. So the funds was provided by the Abu Dhabi government via Etihad airlines rather than the Man City owners. Since state owned entities is allowed to sponsored club they believe they have a case!!!!
Now, that’s something if proven
mate I said it all well
Man City will not lay down and have belly tickled
Chronicles, the thing is, Khaloon Al Mubarak the chairman of Man City, also holds several top positions in the UAE government. So it can be said that the rules have been ‘broken’. It’s probably why the commission found them guilty on the sponsorship deal.
even those contracts are above ‘fair market value’ meaning the figures are artificially inflated hence unacceptable
Yeah, this is where the “disguised funding scheme” ruling comes in. The commission decided that there was clear evidence they were using a workaround to get more money into the club without going through the proper channels. Not sure how the appellate commission will overturn that…
Well why didn’t they say this from the start. It could have saved a lot of time couldn’t it.
they would have mate
they presented this evidence and the commission have said no
this most likely will drag on unless they reach a compromise
I have read they will be in league 2 by Xmas
take the emotion out of it peeps
Dan, I believe that city will have to present NEW evidence as they have already been found guilty after what they originally presented.
The question then remains why didn’t they present this “irrefutable evidence” in the first place?
thats not true
City can’t present new evidence
Under Pl rules a appeal is a review not an retrial
City can’t present evidence they have held back.
On a few occasions you can do that but only if they can prove it was unavailable to them in the first hearing
Instead City are trying to argue that the commission have made errors in how they have reviewed the files presented and have legally ignored / misrepresented the evidence
Isn’t that what I said at 9.01. pm?
No you said you believe they have to present new evidence so I’m clarifying no they don’t and won’t
Here are the facts:
Deffo in the championship next year.
It’s expulsion from premier league via points deduction method.
Fixture computer whirls into action 2nd week of June, by then all City’s options to save themselves will be over.
Those three we now know as definite. But the options to save themselves may even be exhausted before the end of February. Gone with the snowdrops of winter.
Next question.
First. Anyone who bet on Man City for the title, won’t get anything back – this won’t be covered by the terms of the bet.
Second, for those with team supporting skin in the game, Man City are now out the race, so whose finishing second and third to us instead?
Third. The reaction of the City players. Some only signed weeks ago, can they say to their agents: was it not part of your job to see this coming? Players and agents cheesed off by this could have a hugely toxic vibe at that club.
none are facts
you hope ( as do I ) but it’s not facts
Save the post. These are the facts.
All posts are saved and searchable? Let’s put in a search string for spring –
THESETHEFACTSDAN
It’s going to be a wild winter. Man City don’t make top 4 due to points deduction. Man Utd got no ball winners, Chelsea can’t keep cleanies, behind a billion pound first eleven Liverpool have the strength in depth of a spring onion.
And the weathers going to be wild and stormy, that’s another fact. And Arsenal are rubbish in the rain, the archetypal fair weather side. If we have to play 20 matches in the same conditions as away at Wolves last year, we will finish mid table.
Waste of a fine pair of welly’s gifting them to any of our players, they will never put them on. They will stay inside on their xboxes.
but it’s literally not a fact is it ?
again it’s what you want to happen / think will happen and could happen but as we sit here today no sanction has been announced
It is fact. Dan – new premier league rules have come in, that’s fact, part of it was fast-track regulations, disciplinary process must be severely expedited. I wonder what was in the mind when they added that. Man City are now literally on a fast track timeline conveyer belt that for all the money and fancy Dan lawyers (still no offence intended)they cannot stop.
The facts of this conveyer belt, an appeal and subsequent proceedings must be entirely concluded no later than 12 weeks after the appeal is filed. The Sentence is decided entirely by the original three-person panel totally independent of any ongoing appeal process, so sentencing happens now, will be decided this year, not after Christmas, and official announcement (if not leaked) just about 5 weeks later after a bit of redacting for commercial reasons. So January.
CAS is not an option for City, Nor is the high court an option for city to stop announcement of their punishment. Also high court will not open up and look at the whole thing again verdict and sentence, just the simple and easy to answer question, have City been treated unfairly, clear and obvious errors made in deciding their guilt. How can that be hard to answer, the dossier has them banged to rights, caught with clear, undeniable proof of guilt.
I agree with you they are not getting thrown out the Premier League, they are not having to apply to football league and getting put in league 2. But they are having a points deduction that puts them in the championship for next season. We can call that part a fact now.
No it’s literally not a fact
This is scary and it happens all over the world where people think how they feel over rides reality
As things stand it’s not a fact they have have been relegated or talk of expulsion
Could happen but as we talk now it’s not a fact
Like if it’s a fact they have been kicked out of the league they won’t be playing next Sunday ?
And expulsion and relegated due to a points deduction is not the same
Yeah so factually there has been zero expulsion
I bet you you on Xmas day this still hadn’t been resolved
The appeal process could drag into January
I agree with you. I am not talking expulsion. Lots of us in here talking different things. I agree with a lot of what you are saying Dan.
I’m saying relegation to Championship, via points deduction – everything that comes with that, in you can’t take wage bill down with you – it’s not like a Coventry or Wolves going down, you don’t get big boys on wage bills way above what EFL allow, going down, so this alone is hugely transformative for a big club.
Yes Expulsion is something completely different, that’s where it is put to vote to expel, and two thirds of clubs, 15, have to vote for it. But between themselves they’ve agreed not to do that, they’ve agreed on relegation via points deduction instead, mainly because it can be implemented so swiftly now before the fixture computer needs to poo out its annual business.
Was it Batman film where sentenced to death was by walking across the ice and falling through it, but called it exile. This is the same, expulsion… by natural relegation after points deduction. It can work out the same, as EFL SCR means City can so easily plummet to league 2 struggling to meet rules and breaking them.
“ This is scary and it happens all over the world where people think how they feel over rides reality”
There is a philosophical debate here of what is fact and reality for something that has yet to happen.
It’s fact it’s going to happen, same or close to how I describe Dan, as you don’t have to take it from me: when you listen to all the legal experts who can’t see any possible loophole City can use. City got through Europe ban at CAS same way tabloids escaped after snooping on celebs – there was a time out rule. There’s no time out rule on this. No matter when charged, no matter when sentenced, there’s no time out rule. Nor can they argue they can’t be sentenced under new rules, goal posts changed on them, etc, because they massively shammed it no matter what years rules they are judged against.
Look at like nice sunny day today, all weather experts saying we will get big storm on Monday. So no, I’m not basing Mondays Storm on my own wishes or feelings, I’m basing it on subject matter experts telling me.
I think City owners feel hard done by in the spirit of things, similar to Burnham’s sympathy and comments – they feel they were encouraged to come in to Prem and splash cash, transforming things, and that it would never come to this. It’s just a couple of years ago Prem waved through similar ownership for Newcastle, in the spirit of super competitive premier league. Is it not effectively a foreign government owning a football club, bemused why foreign government putting its money in can be so wrong? Man City ownership could have a point about being “led on” and betrayed. Hung at the gallows for sleeping with the bosses daughter, when the daughter had enticed them on?
It seems that HMRC are being urged to get involved with the irregular payments by the Finance Committee as HD suggested they might.
I suggest it’s city who will be wanting this to be sorted out before even more revelations and actions are revealed.
The cat is out of the bag now – even if they come to some arrangement with the Premier League, an HMRC investigation will be a separate issue for them to deal with and settle… then theres the civil claims. They look pretty cooked.
As expected the HMRC has just joined the investigation. Did Sham FC pay the right amount of taxes and insurances from their artificially inflated contracts? This indicates the lawsuit has been transforming into a criminal investigation whereby beside the club individuals will also be liable for unpaid taxes. Surely it’s Verdict of the Century! In this case the tactics of Guardiola and now Maresca are deemed unimportant to save the club
I’ve seen an article that says city could own up to £12,000,000 in taxes!!!
This could end up with two nations arguing over a football club cheating – I guess that will take all the emotion out of the discussion?!?!
im willing to put money Ken on each thing i said won’t happen if you want to be cocky lol
so 100 pound no City player gets banned
100 pound they don’t get banned for 3 years
100 pound they won’t be bottom of the table next Sunday or at Xmas
100 pound they won’t essentially be cancelled
100 pound they won’t be forced to sell their players and not allowed to buy anymore
100 pound they play against Liverpool next Sunday
lets see how many I get wrong
and when im correct here is what happens
one reader will say ……oh you just like to say i told you so lol
someone else will say…. who and how many
and the other one will pretend this was never said and when you give them the quote will say…….well that is not everyone
1000 they’ll win the appeal and remain unpunished. You’ve forgotten this
But I never claimed this ?
Good try though
Dan – point by point:
1. Have I said any individual player should be banned?
2. Have I said they should be banned for any period of time?
3. As above.
4. Not sure what you’re saying here.
5. I do believe they will get banned from buying players for a period of time. £50 bet?
6. Who has said that the Liverpool/City game wouldn’t go ahead?
Here’s some counter bets after your cocky way of inventing what an individual has said lol:
1. Arsenal versus Leeds United will go ahead this Saturday £100 bet.
2. City will produce no evidence that hasn’t been seen before? £100 bet.
3. HMRC will get involved? £100 bet.
4. Arsene Wenger was correct with his doping statement? £100 bet.
5. This will become the biggest scandal in European football? £100 bet.
6. The punishment that city will receive will be the biggest punishment in PL history? £100 bet.
Let’s see how many I get wrong.
Are we on for the £50 bet in your number 5?
No mate
My bets are on what I have heard from fans this week on here
As you mocked me , I’m trying to figure when I have said that won’t happen , what you disagree with
I also believe they could get banned from buying players but that wasn’t what the fan wrote
He wrote they would be made to sell their players and not allowed to replace them
I can’t take your bets mate as I have not said they won’t happen or mocked you for saying they would
I can give you quotes where a reader has said these things and all I have tried to say is won’t happen
Point 2 for example I even myself said they can’t present new evidence
5 I don’t know how you would equate that ?
Yeah you can take my bet only if you understand the reader wrote City will be told they have to sell their players yet not allowed to buy anyone ( for 100)
So if others wrote what you want to make bets on, why are you asking me to bet with you?
As for “mocking you” where has that come from?!
You keep on telling everyone to take the emotion out of their posts and I explained that, if two nations became embroiled in this saga, it wouldn’t involve emotions – how is that mocking you?
Looks like all bets are off then mate.
You sarcastically wrote take the emotion out it lol
Which is fine
I’m just interested what I have said won’t happen you actually disagree with?
That’s my point , what we feel sanctions should happen is actually similar lol
Right ken1945 no emotion; that tax sum has now gone up to 24m with penalties. It was as a result of Mancini having double hidden contract.
As the Athletic explained without the illegal Disguised Funding Scheme Man City could only be the 6th highest earner in the league and couldn’t assemble these world class players
It’s been explained City is not entitled to get Parachute Payment if relegated.
Good Friday is passing without any. Did they throw the towel?
Most of City players don’t have the belief their club win the appeal and are discussing with their agents. They regret they didn’t insert relegation clause in their newer contracts (BBC).
Yes, I touched on this player and coach thing versus club in an earlier post.
Players asking questions of their agents. Agents and players asking questions of the club. Every sane person asking questions of player and agent as so much of this already in public domain.
How does all that distraction being the least of it, low morale, disharmony, bitterness and anger maybe, translate in performance on pitch and results?
In its appeal which they did at 7pm yesterday Man City showed disdain to the epl. They’re calling the guilt verdict just an opinion and they’re calling also the independent commission as the epl commission
That’s odd as I was told they had factually been relegated and expelled lol
So wait ….you mean City are going to drag this on ?
Who knew?
fact is City have been found guilty; expulsion is what we’ll see in the next few months before the end of the season. In between the current players are struggling to rip up their contracts and safeguard their financial interests
When you say expulsion what does that word mean to you ?
Because I wouldn’t say that is factually going to be a sanction
Could be but it’s not a fact
significant points deduction effectively leads to expulsion through relegation; transfer ban will make return impossible at least for foreseeable future
That’s not expulsion
Expulsion means kicking the club out of the Premier League entirely, stripping them of their league membership. Under Premier League rules, this is a separate, extreme sanction that would actually require a ballot vote where 15 out of the other 19 rival clubs must vote in favour of the expulsion.
Then even if years later City got promoted the Prem vould not let them back in
It’s suggest clubs wouldn’t vote for that
So that’s different to getting relegated because you don’t have enough points
you’re correct no need to seek the 2/3 vote of clubs when the verdict of the panel is robust enough to send City deep down.
Exactly
Don’t drag it out
No but you have interjected into a debate where that’s my argument that they have factually expulsion has happend
You then wrote
fact is City have been found guilty; expulsion is what we’ll see in the next few months before the end of the season.
So I’m simply saying that’s your opinion not factual
I think they might get a points deduction which could relegate them but that’s not expulsion
Expulsion won’t happen , I would be shocked
Expulsion may or may not happen. It’s down to clubs not the league or FA. It’s still a possibility. You can’t rule it out
So this is what I mean
You write what you want to happen but not reality
So you wrote earlier
It’s been explained City is not entitled to get Parachute Payment if relegated.
Good Friday is passing without any. Did they throw the towel?…..they appealed
Now your saying expulsion is factual …..it really isn’t at all
Didn’t say expulsion is factual. Did I? But that option is still legally possible if clubs like to use it. It requires a simple 2/3 majority which is not hard in the current apathy to City.
When I texted around lunch time it was not yet disclosed whether they appealed
Yes
You wrote …..
fact is City have been found guilty; expulsion is what we’ll see in the next few months before the end of the season.
That’s your opinion not factual
You can’t rule out expulsion. It’s one of the possibilities. It’s down to the agreement of the clubs. It may or may not be used to punish Sham FC.