It’s time to admit that Arsenal have progressed under Arteta

The table doesn’t lie – Arsenal HAVE progressed! by Highbury Hero

After 13 rounds last season, Arsenal was already out of the European race and was on course for the worst season in recent memory. We were sitting just above the relegation zone with signs of improvement not in sight.

And surely, we went on to have the worst season that every one of us would like to forget. Things were still not looking good at the beginning of this season when we followed our worst season with the worst start: losing embarrassingly our first three games and sitting at the bottom of the table with an embarrassing goal difference. And all these after we had our most expensive transfer window.

Fast forward to today we have climbed to the 5th spot with only goal difference separating us from 4th at the time of writing. It is even more impressive that the point gap with the league leaders is not as big as most would have expected.

The league table was the stick I used to beat the manager with, and it is the league table that I use to acknowledge the work he is doing, because the improvement is obvious.

The league table is not the only thing that has improved; personally, I am starting to enjoy our games again. I now look forward to our games with positivity, unlike last season where all I felt was an apocalyptic doom and gloom.

I can’t say I have seen an identifiable style of play yet, but it is starting to take shape. A huge improvement from last season’s unwatchable games. Time will tell if it gels together or collapses. Signs are in favour of the former.

Things are still not rosy all things considered. We have shown brilliance in some games and the horror of last season in others. Hopefully as the season progress the performances will be more  consistent.

I am a confirmed Arteta out brigadier, so I won’t praise him for the work he is doing. It is the thing he was hired to do and should have been doing it from the start, but better late than never.

One regular commenter congratulated me on changing my stance from what he called my previous wrong view of the manager. But how are two consecutive 8th place finishes a wrong view of the progress? The whole point of the league is results, and fan’s views will always change according to that.

Our new recruits have been a revelation, especially Tavares, Lokonga, Tomiyasu and Ramsdale. But Arteta should work hard to bring the best out of the top talents we already had. I am not happy with the developments of Gabriel Martinelli and Nicolas Pepe. These players are huge talents and can offer so much to the team considering we are still weak in attack.

It is the manager’s job to make it happen.

I also think we should set our sights on finishing in the top 4. I am not one to lower expectations and say 6th is good enough for now. No, 6th is not good enough. We have already shown we are capable of challenging and in the end securing that spot. If we expect to drop down the table that means the transformation we have seen compared to the start of the season is down to luck.

Is it luck? If it is not, why should we expect to drop down the table? The only reason anyone would expect us to drop is having no confidence in the manager and the team, in my humble opinion. We should leave that to the biased pundits.

The race for European spots is very crowded nowadays. When one team underperform the others take advantage. The usual top 4 contenders took advantage of our underperformance for the last two seasons but where are they now? They are all struggling so far. It will be a shame not to capitalise on that.

We are in a good and acceptable place right now, but we should strive for more because we are capable of more. And things are only going to get harder. Spurs new manager is a winner, and they have two of the top talents (Son and Kane) of this generation capable of carrying the team on their shoulders.

Furthermore, we do not know what impact the new Man Utd manager will have, West Ham have picked up where they left off last season, and there is always a possibility of Leicester making a comeback.

Can we say those teams have what we don’t have? And we have the advantage of being settled compared to some of them with new managers in charge. The manager and the boys should pull up their socks, things are just starting!

Have I changed my stance on the manager, and do I finally see him as the right man for the job? ‘No’ is my answer. I cannot say he is the right or wrong man for the job. Only his performance can say that. My view will always be based on that.

He was the wrong man last season, but he seems right this season so far. Since we don’t know what he will be as the season progress, we can only enjoy the moment.

Highbury Hero

Tags Arteta


  1. Progressed because we regressed under the same management,so yes he has progressed since he has been here regarding himself .
    But if we are talking about progressing following from the last 2 managers then no as the league table does not lie ,and I don’t count this season as we are only a 3rd way through .
    I’m with you HH regarding my views on Arteta,I see nothing that will change my mind on him ,he got lucky after last season when he should have been replaced and was backed heavily in the summer so we should be where we are and I don’t see that as a surprise ,we have a good set of players but for me the leadership is all wrong ,obviously my opinion before I get called negative and I will stick by it .

    1. You make a good point and it is something I should have mentioned that my view of the progress is from the time he took over, especially the difference between the performance of last season and the current one.

      Before I continue I would like to remind anyone who call you negative of your big support of Arteta from his arrival up to the middle of last season when you changed your stance because you didn’t like what you saw. You even confidently betted that we will finish in the top 4 and displayed your bet slip on your profile picture. Who else betted we will finish in the top 4 including our very own professional bettor Mr Jon Fox?

      The resignation of Wenger, the firing of Emery and then hiring Arteta doesn’t make any sense if one consider why the two left.

      Ideally the board should have hired an established manager and go straight on challenging for the title but I am not sure why they went for an inexperienced one instead.

      They have supported him financially, with players discipline and have been very patient with him contrary to the normal nowadays with even smaller clubs firing managers when results don’t go their way.

      Judging only his performance without comparing him to the previous managers, there is progress. To be honest I am starting to get confident of finishing in the top 4 or top 6 at worst.

      If he keeps producing the results all will be behind him because he will be giving fans something to support him for. It has never been against him as a man, it’s just fans even those who are called negative just want to see their club performs in the required standard.

      1. Yea thanks for that HH i think people tend to forget that we are only human and changing one’s opinion is a natural process that happens on a daily basis be it football or other life interests .
        Like you said I was right behind him until I wasn’t ,I went off on what I saw on the pitch not some silly agenda that some fans call others out for ,I have judged the last 2 previous managers the same way and they I’ll continue to do just that With Arteta .

      2. I resent you lying about me HH!

        I did NOT bet that we we would finish in last seasons top four. Why you tell lies I have no idea!

        I have also NOT bet that we wil finish in this seasons top four as, I DO NOT EXPECT IT, THOUGH IT REMAINS A POSSIBILITY.

        You know nothing of how I bet, so do not speak of things of which you have zero knowledge .

        Your opinions on our club are your own affair but your opinions on how and what I bet are profoundly wrong. You owe me a public apology!

        1. No he does not owe you an apology jon as once again you read a post without actually digesting what was written .
          He was talking about me but asked if you would do the same as you keep telling us how much you support our team .
          That was the point he was making .

        2. I did not say you betted please read my post again. For a person to bet on something they have to be very positive about it. Dan Kit was the only person who betted because he had the confidence in the manager and the team.

          To be constantly labeled negative just because he is not happy with the performance (and coming from the people who were less optimistic than him) is unfair to be honest. I was trying to say that.

          1. HH your incorrect use of English was the reason I called you out.

            What your post actually said WAS that I had bet on us making top four. Why mention me at all if that was not what you meant then?

    2. So Dan Kit, your opinion is we should become like Watford and change managers multiple times , sometimes 3 in a stability has no tangible metric..that you get the best out of your players by constantly changing the vision and tactics every new manager brings with him..certainly by your point of view Fergie would have been sacked after his first year at MU..I’m in no way comparing the two, yet…is it that your just one of those people who are never happy unless the team wins the double every two years? Clearly the team is moving in the right direction….Arteta came into a horrible mess and we have come out the other side looking pretty good especially if we have one more window like the last one…since Arsenal’s glory years the PL has gotten infinitely better top to bottom so to expect those same results in this new era, well clearly even you can see the folly in that…furthermore what manager would you like instead? I would rather have a young up and comer who has the backing of Pep and Arsene…. You know, people who have actually accomplished great things in this game

  2. I think we are been humble and not trying to get our hope too high, that’s why those of us claiming top 6 may be our achievement think so, however, it’s not bad to start thinking of too 4, we are level on point with 4th, 7points behind the leader after 13games and we have played all teams above us except westharm, it’s really a joy and long may this new joy continues

  3. Arteta got very lucky when Kroenke gave him another season. Artea has been given a new 11 plaeyrs in his time here. Ramsdale Tomi White Tavares Lokonga and Odegaard were added to Partey Gabriel the emerging Saka ESR and Martinelli plus the 72m Pepe and mega expensive Auba + Laca. Arsenal has a bare 14 top players the rest are bang average. Next summer we will off load mega dead wood and sign another 4-5 young talents and maybe recall Saliba. So if we say we are half way through the process with just 14 decent players we are indeed doing well being 5th on goal difference especially after a horror start. United on Thursday will be another indicator of our progress.

  4. We have improved, but I wished Arteta made a gamble at Etihad and Anfield. If we were braver there, we might’ve got at least one point from those two matches

    Old Trafford is another place where we shouldn’t sit back. Arsenal lost too many battles there since Wenger’s era, so our attackers had better press Man United’s defense despite the risk of decreasing our midfield density

    1. The idea that we should get beaten by all those clubs is lazy. If it’s just down to player quality then Arsenal wouldn’t have beaten those clubs in a decade. Sometimes tactics give you the edge. Other times it’s motivation and others. How do you think Crystal Palace almost pulled off a victory against us?? If they accepted their fate would they have done so well? Various things affect results and not just player quality .We are becoming mediocre in our thinking.

      1. Agree various things affect results.
        Palace just lost at home to Villa.
        New manager bounce with Gerrard maybe?
        The quality of the opposition is a major factor influencing results.
        We have not lost to a team below us so far.
        United in 8th is below us but were a long way ahead till recently. They also have a much better squad, will have home ground advantage a new manager bounce and under enormous pressure to succeed from their fans.
        A draw would be a good result for us

        1. Yes many things affects results and that’s why the team with the better players will not always win. Lets just deliver a competent performance against Man Utd. We need to stop playing mediocre football against these top sides and actually have a go at them. If we lose at least it wouldn’t be because we accepted our fate but because of other reasons. If we can’t have a go at this Utd team then why should we trust in the process??

      2. That’s why we should’ve taken a much higher risk at Etihad, Anfield and Old Trafford. Scared, overly-calculated and merry-go-round tactics will only allow our oppositions to dominate us

        1. Being too tactical and overly-calculated is what has seen us beaten so easily. We need to let the players express themselves positively rather than waiting for moments. Those teams don’t respect us at all and I’m sure they feel like it’s always a matter of time before they score one and beat us.

      3. Yes this is a point. Crystal Palace even beat Man City at their own ground with a clean sheet. It is about time we let those clubs sweat for a point let alone three points.

  5. We all see what we want. I see a more consistent way of playing than I saw under Emery.

    We have a young squad, we have had to integrate more new players than is ideal. Yet we are getting results and are making noises. Way too early to speculate about our potential final place on the table at the end of the season but also way too early to write us off for the top 6 or even top 4.

    We are getting some results and we are getting them without a dominant striker. I like where we are at at this point in time. Now let’s see if we can keep this rhythm going. Would be great if we can avoid losing to Man U. I would take a draw.

  6. Surely thing has progressed. What I really like from our current progress, it is more likely due to systematic management level improvement rather than Arteta’s individual influence (incorporating set piece specialist coach, data-driven assistant coach, well output academy player, non player-agent influence on recruitement; I believe our 6 latest recruitment purely made by objective assesment rather than subjective one, look how amazing they are).

    When we do things correctly management-level wise, things will automatically improve. Ups and downs shall be along the way, but the sum and average wont lie.

    What really necessary for now is storing those management improvement permanently.

    Tottenham, during Pochettino era, have been far ahead of us within these aspect of incorporating sport science, statistics-driven, performance-bonus-based contract instead of agent negotiating player value, etc. Seems like when Poch were pushed aside, they also cancel out the progress he made; not that I feel sympathy for them, though.

    United has somehow maintain their system regardless their coach is. Ferguson stay ahead as board member, Carrick stays as short term interim, I believe it represents more permanent staff behind Utd that still maintain the work and system regardless of the manager. We need more permanent staff within key areas (physical training, data-driven, player analyst, coach assistant) that will stay long term to the club whoever the head coach is.

    The table will represent cumulative efforts of club from management level, tactics and player performance. I truly believe the 4th place is within possible grasp for us.

    Manager will come and go. As other club raid our players, it also possible they will raid our manager. Just because historically Wenger stays loyal with us when Madrid knocked doesnt mean Arteta will stood still when City, Barcelona, PSG, or even Everton asked for his hand. Be grateful to what we have now. Many clubs regarded him highly.

    1. Excellent post Bob, sorry, I hadn’t read it before sending mine, which said similar but not as well as yours already had by the looks of it

  7. Progressed from his own previous seasons yes 100%…progressed as a club, I’m not so sure.

    If go gambling with $10 and you lose $9 over the course of the evening and on your final roll with your final $1 manage to win and get back to $10…..have you won $9 or have you not actually progressed your wealth?

  8. Too early to say.
    We went 2 steps backwards and 3 forward. So at the moment an overall small progress, it seems to me.
    Now we need to show, we can also got something out og games against the top teams. Then it is real progress, not before.

  9. Success is not achieved by luck. You make your own luck. In truth, this isn’t luck, it’s hard work.

    Arsenal needed a lot of hardwork, even from before Mikel was our manager.

    Certain things are being done right now and the reward it what we are seeing. Still another needs to be done, more squad depth, more personal to leave, more changes off field, more on field changes, players are improving, Manager is improving…

    I think regarding of what work is being done some will still choose to be negative. Can’t be helped, all opinions are welcomed, that’s life…

    I just want to focus on celebrating the small victories we achieve, step by step, and review the failures and look to see how we improve…

    I liked the manner in which we had no hangover from losing to Liverpool. This was a failure of the past. Credit to MA but some won’t see this as credit due…because its apparently his job!!!!!!!!

    1. Tomorrow, A very wise post with full perspective, which is though and sadly too, something quite rare on JA among many Gooners.

      In essense then, a job showing progress with a way to go but not hopeless and some are simply unable as well as unwilling to see the clear truth unfolding in front of them.

      1. Glad you could understand it, with my fat fingers and this new age touch screen and predictive text I am struggling!
        How I miss the old buttons like how I miss the old fan who would recall the good old 1 nil to the arsenal with pride

  10. I would say WHU have progressed.A 5-2 against Liverpool and a 1-2 at Man City, that is called progress, 5-0,4-0 white washes can no way be termed as progress. Had we lost 5-4 and 4-3, I would call that progress. WHU have not blown up 150 million on talent, the existing crop of players have excelled with a few additions with proper coaching and tactics. Do not get excited, there are 26 games to go. We surrendered to Chelsea, Man U had a tame draw with a caretaker manager. No way I call this progress with the investment done, we should have had a goal difference of 20+.

  11. Good post John63

    My personal view is that it not just about Arteta, although he clearly has had a huge role to play

    I believe we have made steady progress on the pitch since he took over but the overall Club’s progress has been better, if the background stuff is now stable there is a good platform for further on pitch progress and ultimately more obvious success, the FA Cup win was a nice bonus on the way

    The answer will not be determined on Thursday, although a point or three would help, getting into Europe would be obvious success, maybe Europa this season and Champions League at the end of next

    Even if Arteta isn’t with us next season he would have played a major part in us getting to that point, I personally hope that he will be though

  12. Arteta is more likable than Emery I see. I don’t like being bias in my analysis. It’s clear many just like him ma as a character over Emery. He was brought in for the long term so ight now all we can do is hope for the best. Personally, I do not think his attacking tactics are good enough and he needs to look at that. Our style of play is predictable and not fluid. He needs to sop playing those that don’t fit his tactics and stop playing them just because they are seniors. That could be his downfall this season if he doesn’t change that.

    1. There is little doubt that you are biased against Arteta because he is not playing your preferred players.
      What is your evidence that Arteta is liked better?

  13. I’m an Arteta supporter but was slowly loosing it as we were not progressing.i said leave it till the end of October to see how it goes and thankfully it has improved. We are still a long way off from perfect but the team is improving. I’m still disappointed by aubas contribution and feel we have nothing to loose by giving playing time to nketiah and balogan in addition to marnelli supported by Laca as I feel he brings people into the game and holds it up more. Ramsdale has been a revelation. Saks continues to excell and ESR continues to be steady. Time will tell but patience and playing time rotation is key this season for me.

  14. “””Am a confirmed arteta out brigadier, so I won’t praise him for the word he is doing”””
    Isn’t it because he’s proving many of us wrong?

    1. I highlighted that point in the article. How is two consecutive 8th placed finish wrong view of the manager? Anyone who had doubts about him last season and the beginning of this season was right because results agreed with their views.

      I am not praising him because he is starting to do what he was hired to do. He has not done anything extra deserving of praise.

      His task is to return us to title challengers and he is supported to do just that. It won’t be this season yes but if he continues like this we can be confident that he will get there.

        1. I don’t see any contradiction Jon. I think you know I was referring to you on that particular paragraph.

          Performance and results were very bad last season. The manager failed last season and were it any other club they would’ve let him go.

          I cannot praise him for getting out of the pit that he put himself into in the first place.

  15. Well judging from where we coming from, I do not think we have progressed, we can’t always surrender to the top teams and say we progressed,

    Secondly, Arteta needs to drop Aubameyang to the bench, we loose too many goals because of him, we could try Pepe/Martinelli upfront, playing off Lacazette, if we don’t try, we’ll never know.

    1. Last season we were afraid of playing Burnley at our own stadium. That can’t be said this season. We are beating the teams we are supposed to beat that is progress from last season. We become consistent in this then we move on to the bigger fish.

  16. The last transfert window has been spot on….Credit to Arteta for that .We’r heading the right direction as we’r Charly better than last season….My only concern is that we’r too young so it will fataly haunt us at some point….

  17. The points made by others that the club has had a much needed shake up from top to bottom is so important.

    Whilst I had been an admirer of Wenger I felt that his last two years sowed the seeds of mediocrity on the pitch which ultimately led to Emery – in part – losing the dressing room during his tenure. We were not progressing under either man but will of course not have proof of that; it’s just a feeling I have

    The power base in the dressing room was calamitous with, in effect, a couple of senior players calling the shots. The decline would have almost certainly been halted more quickly with a world class manager at the helm, but that would still have been precarious if the rotten Raul and co were still at the club and Kroenke not acting.

    Arteta was a brave move by the hierarchy. A complete novice in management so nothing more to recommend him than being an assistant to Pep. I actually think he is doing ok ( occasionally to derision) bearing in mind the situation the club was in and his complete inexperience.

    There are naive decisions but as I do frequently read, the table doesn’t lie so Arteta must be getting to grips with his role. If we fall off then Arteta must take responsibility. It would have been nigh on impossible to have succeeded immediately as a newcomer. Other managers have been plying their Premier league careers for years with less success.

    We didn’t hire a top guy so until Arteta finishes in the top4 (which is possible) then I doubt whether the doubters will give him credit for very much at all.

    1. Agreed SueP. My thinking now is if we keep comparing him to his predecessors he is never going to meet the expectations in the short term.

      However he has to get there eventually and there should be progress every season. We cannot wait two or three years because other clubs are not waiting and the list of challengers is ever expanding with billionaires acquisitions.

      In today’s football where money more than ever dictates everything, once we settle on playing catch-up we might find that is all we will be doing.

  18. Too early to celebrate Arsenal’s success. Arteta’s team selection leaves a lot to be desired. Why does he keep including Auba after his dismal failure this season. Laca also has contributed little. Martinelli should be a regular member of the team and Nketiah should be given more play time.

    1. That is if compared to pre Arteta era. But there is progress compared to the previous two seasons. From what I have seen so far I put my money on more improvement as the season progresses but I will not be surprised if it turns out otherwise.

  19. My sense is that, at least for some supporters, it will always be too early say things have progressed under Arteta unless he wins the title or consistently in the top four.

    For me, at least we are in the conversation. And after the start we had I would have never dreamed to be saying that so soon.

    I clearly hope he sticks around. But if he doesn’t, I’m confident that the structure and players are in place to make the next manager a success. Did I feel like that after Wenger left? No. Did I feel like that after Emery left? No. That’s real progress.

      1. Didn’t Arteta win the FACup with the players he got left ?
        So for me there is no progress until he wins something with the players he as been heavily backed with .
        Facts tell us that he took us backwards last season and now we are bringing this progress word up to try and give him an excuse when in reality he hasn’t done anything special since he took over .

        1. As I said Dan kit those who don’t rate him will not give Arteta any wiggle room at all – even though he has won the Cup – regardless of who the players were.

  20. We have improved from the position our very own current manager took us. Have we improved to make CL, no, i dont think we have. Maybe a Europa league spot is gettable but for me with the obvious talent at the club and brought in, CL qualification is the only outcome that would be satisfactory. To not get a CL spot from where we are today, would be a failure.

  21. Emery could not communicate or get his instructions across, plus we had a few big players like Ozil, Laca, Auba, Xhaka all calling the shots undermining his authority.

    Wenger had lost the trust of the fans and should of left 2years before he did and it ended so badly for the greatest manager of our clubs history.

    Arteta coming in is a complete rebuild of the Arsenal trying to get back to where we were. “We dont buy stars, we make them”. Mikel has that philosophy of young players and the board backed his & Edus vision as they agree in a complete rest.

    Mikel is the coal that will be squeezed into a diamond, with time, plus has all the Arsenal Values at heart just like Wenger did for all those years and has the respect for the club. He was very highly regarded by all the city players and Pep himself who were all sad to see him go for a reason.

    He has the backroom staff in place for what he wants at the monent and that takes time. We have invested £150 to start the rebuild and have had success already with it. During all this getting rid of players that were toxic, not contributing enough and on money they didnt deserve that could be spent elsewhere.

    Raul getting the boot was the catalyst for change especially with his shady deals with Pepe. Income Edu.

    Mikel came in and steaded the ship to an FACup & Community Shield win even though finished 8th, he didnt capitalise on that and we ended that season 8th and miserable again. The button was pushed for a reset and they are in the middle of doing just that with a team full of youngsters who will only get better over time sitting joint 4th after 13games challegning for Europe again.

    If we manage Top4 then we again will spend big. Patience is needed with Arsenal atm but signs are looking gois along with every player we bought in the summer and let go up to this point.

    Replacing Laca, Eddie, Elneny, Leno, Bellerin, Dino Matteo, Lucas will be very interesting (plus some money & wage bill saved for new players) and maybe Aubameyang too if he keeps up what hes doing on the pitch. The returns of Saliba & Nelson will also strengthen us.

    We have had so much progress in the short time he has been in charge especially at this point. Lets keep it up

    1. Sean we aren’t joint 4th we are 5th, if the league finished now West ham would have a champions League place. We can only be joint 4th if we have identical goals scored/against and head to head.

      1. It was meant by points and on that we are 4th with WestHam SO FAR with 13games played. This was about progress made not the finishing position. This time last year just above relegation after 13games played, this year ON POINTS after 13game we are on same number of points as the 4th positioned team. 7 off 1st, progress has been made which was the point of the comment man, maybe shouldve been more specific my bad

        1. 230 mill Sean to start the rebuild not 150 mill.
          That outlay in 18 months is in the top 3 teams in money spent over said time .

        2. Sean stick to facts and people may take more notice, you have been pulled up on two biggies. Todays position means not as much as Mays position and from everything that people, who think Arteta can be successful, from the point we are at now. 5th and 230 mil spend in last 18 months, CL is attainable if Arteta is capable. There are no excuses, he has been in the job coming up 2 years spent huge on players, the wait is over and the prizes start now.

          1. Tricky Reggie
            It is time for Arteta to start delivering but the sum of money that gets trotted out is in some ways misleading. My personal opinion is that a chunk of the pre Arteta players were a wretched clique and the club was being appallingly run at the same time. Contracts and wages meant the club had to write off those leaving in virtually every case and this hampered Arsenal.
            Money has been spent and it was absolutely necessary as there was a clear out. . Thankfully the new crop are for the most part doing ever so well. I was absolutely against the deal that Auba got- believing the one year contract as advocated by Wenger was the best solution. We still have marginal players on big money thanks to poor negotiations.

            I think top4 is a possibility. If Arteta can’t get top6 after 36 months then he is on a very sticky wicket indeed.

  22. I don’t think there is any doubt that we have improved defensively … though still vulnerable against the big guns… or that we have gone backwards as an attacking force … that has seen us move ahead of teams that have faltered … incl man utd Leicester Spurs and Everton … from looking good after opening 3 or 4 matches .. but our passing pace and pressing remain poor which means there is no project and a loss of confidence could easily see us following the other clubs .. we will struggle against man utd I suspect as they will have adrenaline factor and arteta is both too negative and easily intimidated

  23. Isn’t it too early to talk about progress. I’m waiting for the games against United and West Ham before calling in the jury. They will be serious tests of character. Progress also means resolving the strikers issue with new talent and also moving on from from the managers steadfast clinging to Xhaka. His return will be a definite regression. The season has a long way to go and so far we’ve been relatively fortunate with injuries and settled while many of our opponents haven’t.

  24. He hasn’t finished as high as Emery has yet, so depends how you see progression. Where he ends up this season will determine my feelings about Mikel. His previous season was quite simply horrible. It’s been better so far, but he needs to get this team to perform for an entire season and not just a few months. Let’ see if he can do that, or do we fade away?

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