Okay, as I have said before, I am sick of getting up in the morning and having to read and delete posts from readers insulting and bickering about other readers.
So here are some simple rules which everyone can follow….
You agree not to give any personal abuse to other Arsenal fans. Everyone is allowed to hold their own opinions even if you disagree with them. It COSTS NOTHING TO BE POLITE TO OTHER ARSENAL FANS.
You agree to only discuss about Arsenal and football. No politics, race or religion (or conspiracy theories) are allowed.
You will not discuss or insult other readers that you dislike, you may point out why you disagree with their points ABOUT THE FOOTBALL.
We are ALL ARSENAL FANS, so no reason to insult each other…
The comment section is for discussion about Arsenal and football.
The subject of the article must be used as the basis of discussion. Try not to go “off-topic” too often.
You agree not to swear, even if abbreviated. JustArsenal is a family site.
Inane or ridiculous comments will be deleted.
Serial rule-breakers will be banned.
My decision is final in all matters.
***Be warned – If ANY comment is deleted by me, ALL the replies are automatically invisible, so sometimes your comment may disappear without actually being deleted***
Plus please be aware that I cannot be monitoring the comments for 24 hours every day. Do NOT leave posts saying “why haven’t you deleted such and such”. I will deal with them when I come back on site. back…
I agree Pat.
But I won’t read responses or comments again after yesterday but will continue to read and rely on your site for news,think pieces and main posts.
(Arseblog and Arsenal Vision podcast don’t attract the keyboard warriors…)
Shame.
Sorry to hear that Michael, but as you can see I am trying to do something about that as of now…
Yesterdays bickering annoyed hell out of me too….
A double headed decision Ad PAT.
I do agree with the thrust of your piece and firmly so too. Buy much will depend on how draconian you choose to be when people stray from the writers chosen thread.
Patricks usual questions that finish his article are routinely ignored by most Gooners for the perfectly good reason that they are not the right questions, in most cases. Or that no questions are necessary inorder to gain comments, as the general ignoring of his questions show us all.
If you now reject this post as being too critical of Patrick then there is no role for me on here and I will leave. I hope you use your censorship wisely, though I do appreciate the angst you must have when reading many posts on here , some of mine included.
Without great care, you MAY damage your site more than you realise. And in life, when one opportunity ends another usually takes its place , I always find!
Further to the above , I contend that many , although they may not be banned, will find toothless comments boring and unfulfilling and choose to go elsewhere for their AFC discussions.
I fully AGREE that the level of personal abuse and also team NEGATIVITY is unacceptably high and encourage you to concentrate on THOSE MATTERS the most.
I also point out that to try to prevent discussion that strays off topic is fighting( and will lose) against the trend on all social media.
People are endlessly inventive and need the right to have a deal of poetic license in how they write. When things are “sanitised” TOO FAR, they usually pay the price for that sanitising.
Everyone is welcome to “poetic License” as long as there are no insults or personal abuse involved.
And as for the off-topic point…. . “Try not to go “off-topic” too often.” is advice not a rule…
Thanks for clarification Pat.
Of course those of us who have been around lifes so called “block” several times, well understand that mere ” advice” is almost always ignored in all walks of life, humans being what we are.
@Admin Pat
Give me some examples of “Poetic License”…Just kiddin. 😁
Don’t think Pat said we can’t be negative towards the team. As long as it’s football related and not personal insults then that is all cool. It is a football forum after all and football based opinion is it’s fuel.
.
Agreed AOT
No mention of negativity towards the team was mentioned and why should it be ,like you said a forum for opinions no matter what they are .
DK you may find out and I HOPE YOU DO, that Ad PAT, too is fed up to the back teeth with the constant negativity and troll like posts from CERTAIN Gooners, mentioning no names . obviously.
You may not have read between the lines of what he precisely said and what he actually MEANS and in a fuller sense too.
Pat as said his piece on the abuse which I agree with 100%
Nowhere as he mentioned team negativity that’s you trying to push that into the conversation.
A football forum you should be able to voice any opinion you have and that is exactly what I will continue to do within the rules .
And let’s be honest most of the abuse that as occurred over the last 12 months is usually aimed at the anti Arteta crowd which then leads to return fire .
You little liar,you and your mates do abuse the players and manager,which leads to we the pros coming to their rescue.
Even if that was true ,That’s not abusing other fans though is it which is what the article is about .
That was the source of everything cos real supporters won’t do or tolerate it.we hit out at guys like you when they prove you wrong which they occasionally do.
How can you abuse someone when they don’t know you’ve even said anything? And you’re not protecting them from anything…
@Davi,defending from accusations is different from protecting from abuse.moreover some of them do post stuff like this on their twitter accounts which players normally report.And what makes you think they don’t visit this site.
@fk
Now that is exactly the type of comment I don’t like. You have called a fellow Arsenal fan a liar because you disagree with his views.
I suggest you stop that type of behaviour please
But Fk right pat, it is infact a lie to shirk responsibility and basically blame the other side.
“And let’s be honest most of the abuse that as occurred over the last 12 months is usually aimed at the anti Arteta crowd which then leads to return fire”
It’s so blatant.
Hmmm nice to hear from you it’s been a while lol. Not too sure what you are saying though…
Who is blaming anyone?
It’s no view admin,he accused us of attacking at them first when they are actually the ones who originated the foul language.
But that is all over Fk, agreed?
“And let’s be honest most of the abuse that as occurred over the last 12 months is usually aimed at the anti Arteta crowd which then leads to return fire”
But it’s true.
Thank you HH
Voice of reason as per usual
Will add you are one of very little that does not get personal which is a credit to you .
Cheers Dan.
I think Pat should outlaw you, Reggie and Dan Smith being labeled negative.
Am I reading this right that if you don’t agree with everything arteta does your classes as negative?
No, you are not reading it right.
Whilst I will miss some of the sledging that has gone on in the past as it does bring a smile to my face at times I agree with you that at times some do become a bit personal and if not thick skinned can be quite hurtful
Look forward to reading some negative and positive constructive opinions
Hope everyone will adhere to the rules and keep the comments flowing. Personally, I like reading the various perspectives in the comments more than the articles themselves.
Would also like to take this opportunity for their Arsenal related comments, opinions and perspectives.
CG, My view about preferring articles or comments, depends entirely on WHO is writing the article. I find those who write relentlessly negative articles, turn off my interest.
So, as I can no longer- after Ad PATS piece – state my view about that negativity, I am now resolved to cease even reading such articles.
It’s easy to scroll down to the writers name and then either read or avoid reading the article , as applicable. I think many others will do the same.
Each to his own, Jon.
I perfectly understand your point of view. Certain people do have highly negative take on everything, whereas some others are overly optimistic about everything. But again, it’s their opinion and it is best to agree to disagree. That’s my 2 cents on the matter.
Agree with your stance Admin.
When someone turns to insults it’s usually do to their inability to defend their opinion.
We all love Arsenal and have varied opinions on what we think is best for the club. Hopefully childish comments accusing others of not being “supporters” or “fans” disappears also.
Tbh I haven’t witnessed A ” war of words” where insults were used, the height of it was with Dan kit and fairfan(not sure) a couple of times but other than that nothing else. So I don’t know where this is coming from
Hopefully you don’t see too many because I delete them as quick as possible. I deleted 25 comments yesterday and this morning.
I read EVERY comment and sometimes it ruins my mood for the rest of the day….
I completely agree that sometimes, some comments here might be too harsh and go against what we believe to be civil as people. I just hope that as mr. Jon Fox clearly pointed at, it doesn’t become too sterilized. A large pull for me has always been the varying degrees of opinions on this site, I hope that doesn’t have to change
Not sure what went down yesterday (might have to read back:) 👹😈 but the rules are clear enough.
Hats off Pat.
Same here. I remember having read all yesterday opinion articles and news and didn’t see anything.
Same here… I don’t think I commented yesterday so I don’t think it wasn’t me?
Sometimes it does get a little close to the line so I usually move onto another article, when it does, but fair play adPat👍🏾.
Doh… don’t think it was me🙄
All I will say is, “Victoria Concordia Crescit”
Please tell that to the negative ‘fans’ they seem not to know what the club is all about that we can only get victorious through harmony.
Fk surely there are reasons and opinions why some fans be negative
Years ago when I started visiting JustArsenal I used to see up to 200plus comments, lots of comments. Then along the line it dropped and kept dropping. There were times I would see 40, 30, 20, 15. Then again it upped and started increasing. This past season I observed increase in comments mostly when Arsenal loose or when the Article was anti Arteta or about Kroenke. This is a site which generates money for you AdMin and I’m sure you will want to maintain and increase revenue from this site so don’t enforce the rules in a draconian manner. Majority of people enjoy the comments more than the articles. The banters keep the site alive and over here we are all like a family. I love it when Commenters were asking about Sue cos she hadn’t posted a comment in a while. When fill went missing and lot of people were asking about him. It’s like a big family so don’t be too draconian so that people don’t pull out.
By the way life is intertwined so football will always mix up with politics and other things e.g SuperLeague so expect non football related issues will be brought in, it’s normal. Just try and keep it at a minimum but don’t be too draconian.
As for the rules, we all should try and abide by them, no personal insults, BIG NO.
I have always allowed any Arsenal fans opinions whether pro or anti wenger, arteta or whoever, but I can’t abide personal insults and abuse to fellow Arsenal fans, especially when a whole thread is taken up with schoolboy bickering.
Was it the thread about “Does Saliba need persuading?” or similar title?
I noticed late last night that the whole article had disappeared when I was trying to find where I posted my thoughts about his first 3 years as an Arsenal player (pointing out that covid got in the way).
What kind of insults were people throwing around?
I don’t know if that’s the same article where @NY_Gunner out of nowhere commented about “How I need to get off my knees and wipe my mouth”. Something along those lines..
Some people… smh
😊🤣😂
@Goonster,it was directed to me for saying saliba’s loan spells was not a bad treatment.
Perhaps it was the egotistical Prima Donna comment that was given to one of our players who hasn’t even kicked a ball in anger in the PL yet?
@Ken
Oh, it makes sense now..
Since when have I ever called Saliba egotistical or a primadonna?
And how does that then have to lead a person getting personal with insults such as “Get off your knees and wipe your mouth”?
@NY_Gunner used the same phrase towards @Fk..
How do you SPIN the whole thing?😊
I know you have to stick with your team / side no matter what but come on now..
🤣😂
Smh
I wasn’t justifying anything – I was suggesting something.
Your comment was made regarding an article about Saliba, so don’t play pedantics and try to spin it.. I have no “sides” just my own opinion.
but it was bad treatment, Arteta clearly has limited EQ.
haha classic
I agree with you AdminPat, I too don’t accept personal insults. That’s taking it too far. On a general note the rules are okay and shouldn’t be hard to follow.
*Phil(PAL) I meant not “fill”
Not sure where Phil went TBH
DK, Phil is around and still following The Arsenal home and away.
Conversed with him recently and met up at the home game against Burnley.
I believe he got completely put off with the things Pat is trying to address, but that’s my personal view.
Hope to see him back on JA once again, as he was here before I joined and he definitely is a Gooner through and through.
The other long term subscriber I miss is Kenny Rolfe – how that man could describe a match!!!
Yea agree Ken
Think I came on here just before you phil and sue appeared which was probably 4-5 years ago now ,shame because he just stopped commenting unless I missed something as he had strong views as do alot of us regarding where this club as gone at this moment in time .
Yea Kenny was a regular who did not get personal and gave his views respectfully without resorting to what Pat as posted on this article .
I miss Phil though, @Ken1945 can you kindly talk to him about commenting on here? We’ll love him back.
Will do Chapo – he still reads the articles, so he may react himself!!!
Where are you PAL?
Time to cross swords regarding Arsene and Mikel ⚔️⚔️😂😂
Jeesh alao long. I joined the year beire we bought Ozil so 2013 I think.
remember fatboy gooner and hafiz RIP the good old days
Sensible rules Pat and thanks for the clarification. May I suggest that the “political” side of your decision may be stretched a little?
For instance, the Ozil stance regarding China – that affected the club and was worth the debating that followed.
Apart from that, thumbs up from me and, OF COURSE one can choose whether to contribute to any one article and / or any one individual.
Thanks Ken, yes we do political posts sometimes, but is that covered under stick to the subject lol.
Is it too much to just want friendly discussion without long diatribes of abuse to fellow Arsenal fans?
Thanks AdminPat.
I hope people can now adhere to the rules.
Negative or Positive opinion is fine, but let’s keep it to that..
I agree. I often get acc⅘used of being biased and it certainly annoys me when any Arsenal fan fails to see ANYTHING positive in the improvement in our results, team spirit, and end even any new signings.
But if I point out MY opinion as to why I think they are wrong, I am accused of favouritism or bias.
Isn’t being a supporter about being biased and favouring your club over others?
Maybe you should say “Thanks, I certainly am biased in favour of Arsenal when it comes to football, good of you point it out just in case anyone hadn’t realised”. 😉
Admin,not to mention the names they call our manager and the players especially his signings and go ahead and idolise those who don’t buy into his ideas and philosophies.
The same names others on here called Wenger and Emery?
Besides I have not noticed Arteta being called names like the above mentioned were.
It’s always been my view that people should be allowed to say whatever they want, including “insults” – although I wouldn’t want to insult people myself, and often times an insult is in the eye of the beholder.
People have said harsh things to me in the past (not really in this site to my recollection) and I’d be lying if I said nothing ever bothered or affected me at all, but at the end of the day, we can all choose to ignore them, or respond in kind or even take them on board if we want. We all have it in us not to take such things so seriously, because they really aren’t important.
Anyway, this isn’t my site, and it’s completely up to the site owners/runners how they want things to go.
My view.. Treat others the way you would like to be treated…
Some people like messing with others and being messed with, and some don’t, some find it insulting. Some just like to argue and may have completely different thresholds for what is or isn’t insulting. This is why I prefer to not have these rules – everyone ends up having to conform to a narrower and narrower way of thinking.
Having said that, I do agree with your mantra – that is how I try to be myself – but i don’t agree that should be enforced; typically I mean by law, though.
I’ve no problem with you wanting to have rules for your site at all, just giving my thoughts, for what it’s worth.
👍
very sensible perspective Davi, as any banter that’s not reciprocated generally ends very quickly…not to mention, I’ve been on this site for almost a decade now and it’s never been more tame, from an insult perspective…probably more indicative of the present PC climate, which has reached such deplorable depths that it’s almost like a harkening back to the days of book burning…I pride myself in being, if nothing else, inventive with my comments to others, negative or otherwise, which in no way suggests that I’m so some sort of reckless twitter-head, lobbing wanton insults from the rafters ad nauseum…there’s no question in my mind that the editing has been incredibly skewed towards those with contrarian opinions, but I will try my best to conform to the prescribed norm as best I can
Sadomasochists?;)
Only joking 🙃 just keeping it light
Also for what it’s worth, Pat, I do appreciate your responses in this and when you comment in other threads. Despite the arguments I’ve been making, I do find the rules you’ve made clear here to be typically sensible.
Well its your opinion but I don’t think people should be allowed to say whatever they want all the time. We humans can be savages sometimes and can take things too far when we are angry. Obviously it’s a site and you can’t trade punches so the only way to get one over the other will be to trade words. If those words are not checked then be rest assured that not just insults but unbelievable things will be said. Where do you draw the line? Personal abuse? Racist comments? Curses?
Once personal abuse is allowed then be ready to accept other forms of verbal aggression. Racist comments will follow and other forms. So to me AdminPat is right on this one.
The rules altogether is basically “NO PERSONAL INSULTS”. Is that too hard for grown adults to understand or follow?
Sure, but it’s apparently too difficult for “grown adults” to not take things said by random people on the Internet so seriously.
But I’ll say it again – absolutely no issue from me for the site to have rules on what people say here.
I read everything yesterday and I didn’t see much out of the ordinary.
I noticed that a post of mine re Saliba had disappeared, but I think the whole article may have gone (the one entitled “Does Saliba need to be persuaded?” or something similar).
My comment may hav ebeen in the other Saliba article though, I can’t remember, in which case I’d wonder why it was deleted. All it said is that the people saying he’d been mistreated were off the mark, since there was only one decision point in his Arsenal career which was when he came back from the contractual loan to St Etienne, it was decided in pre-season that he wasn’t ready. Then covid hit so he didn’t play for a year, so the loan still had to be done.
I wondered if certain ex-Arsenal Marseille player had an one or more accounts here – due those accounts endlessly bashing MA and stating that WS had been treated badly. Would that get a post deleted?
As others pointed out, the site can become sterile if moderation is too energetic. There is a freedom of speech aspect which works for a reason (how can you persuade a racist that they’re wrong if you can’t engage them in debate?).
There are nuisance posters of course and they need to be dealt with, but there’s a difference between “negativity about the team” (which could be valid concerns, constructive criticism) and constant negativity about the club and/or the manager. With the emphasis on “constant”.
Some of the “articles” are often intended to get debate going – they’re not articles as such, just pointers to some report in news elsewhere, or they raise a question, inviting comment. When you do that, expect all sorts of responses.
I’d say there are 2 or 3 accounts here that are annoying and consistenly negative with an ongoing axe to grind, at least 2 of them seem to shadow and support each other in a suspicious manner, but no more than that. So – I’m surprised to read this article today., especially as I say, since I noticed nothing out of the ordinary yesterday, usual level of insults (just a couple) and usual level of negativity (usual 2-3 or at most 4-5 accounts).
Hey it wasn’t ‘out of the ordinary’ because it is recently an every day occurrence!
But as pointed out in the article, if one abusive comment gets deleted, all the replies also disappear automatically, which is probably why your one wasn’t there….
A hearteningpost, IDKWIC!
Your post needs a response, so here goes. I go on other clubs sites from time to time , not regularly but regularly occassionally, lets say!
TBH, I don’t see much difference in overall content and style of comments, since we are all humans and thus likely to have most traits in common. Though I applaud Pats aim,to an extent, I too have reservations about anyone trying to fundamentally alter how humans on social media behave towards each other as being a pretty hopeless, even though brave task.
I have more doubts than I expressed directly to Pat about how much damage to free speech any real censorship achieves – and I have spent years in standing up for the power of free speech in enriching mankind – though of course NOT not filth, hatred racism etc.
Personally, Id be loath to see this site fail or become less vital and I foresee danger in Pats aim for this site.
Time will tell but danger can come in many ways , which includes asteady drift by lack of interest in something once so vital, becoming boring or samey. Even as things stand, I have alwasy found many, even a majority of JA ARTICLES, far too “samey”.
WERE I NOT SO OPINIONATED, I WOULD PROBABLY HAVE LEFT YEARS AGO. I doubt I will be remotely alone in thinking this way. Time will tell how things pan out.
But I know this; where censorship is rife and thoughts and words suppressed, then life is less healthy . Look around the world and at certain countries for the clear truth of that remark.
And human nature shows us that humans will always argue. To deny that is to shut ones eyes to truth.
Jon…
An argument or a debate based on opinions is a completely different thing to a descent into exchanging insults…
I am not interested in censorship but I was brought up to talk politely and I have always upheld that while policing the comments for the last ten years. I’m not going to change now…
Pat, though I agree with both these posts and, in general, your “quest”, I do think we are discussing at some level a form of censorship.
Unless you do not actually mean what you say in your article, it is certainly “censorship” That cannot be doubted by those who know what “censorship” actually means.
And it is on the principle that I hold huge doubts about whether you can achieve YOUR aim without severely damaging your readership and numbers of those who will stay true to JA, as I and such as KEN have done for many years, despite temptation for us both to leave at times. (Ken has told me this personally by phone in the past).
Time will tell but much depends on HOW MUCH you wish to change.
Jon, I have NO wish to change! I simply want to maintain a level of decorum on the site that I has served us well over the last ten years.
You can predict doom and gloom as much as you like but I will not compromise my principles if it means I have to have toxic comments every morning.
@Jon
But JustArsenal is a private forum that has its own rules and regulations that it champions.. That’s what every private entity does.
Media channels (TV’s), Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Instagram, any Fans Forums, our normal works places, our own private households etc all have their own standards they are built on.. That’s why you have your own standards for in your household, I can’t come into your house and start cursing, swearing, being abusive, You have a right to tell me to stop it or you can kindly ask me to leave.. I don’t think that’s censorship..
JustArsenal is a private entity that has its own Rules, Regulations and Standards, by joining it we are consenting to the Terms and Conditions..
Goonster your point is undoubtedly correct but it does not negate my point that terms and conditions DO constitute a form of censorship.
In general I like to follow and support all societys mores but in doing do I am acutely aware that humankind itself imposes a kind of censorship, where honest thoughts and speech is often discouraged.
I have always believe that state of being to be harmful and that rational discussion disarms bad people, such as racists boigots etc
We disarm them by showing them up in all their stupidity and lack of intelligence but we do not disarm them by making them go underground , where they fester and become a sort of Taliban or such type.
Honesty is freedom and build bridges, while forceful silencing builds resentment and harms mankind.
That is and always has been my firm view, as an acute and life long observer of our shared human nature.
@Jon
I understand what you are trying to say and I do agree to some extent, but there is another perspective to it..
I just think that Free Speech Utopia is a myth. If Terms and Conditions for any given entity are labelled as Censorship then I am lost here..
I don’t know if you have / had children, a wife, husband (Basically a household). But didn’t you have rules for your family? Did you, your wife and children etc all have free reign in your home to speak in derogatory terms on a daily basis? And did you encourage your family to carry on with such unproductive behaviour during family get togethers, outing’s, school, work place etc? If me telling my 6 year old son that “Sorry ‘Goonster Jr, ’but you talking in that way to me, your mother or any other adult is unacceptable”. If you can label that as me censoring my childs Free Speech then whats the point of sociatal behavioural norms? Everything is Censored 🤬 so let’s all be depressed..
In this world our own personal lives always need certain foundations. What To do and not to do. Too much of anything without any sort of balance or regulation is not advisory.. Even Freedom of Speech is not absolute, For example you are not allowed to jokingly shout “Fire or bomb” in a crowded public Area. You can’t use your free speech to physically threaten to hurt me. Etc.. Sometimes you can’t just nonchalantly smear another person / entity. In some cases you can be sued for defamation (Amber Heard vs Johnny Depp). You can be charged with threatening behaviour etc..
You can say that your own made up household rule and regulations are censorship then that means everything in this world is censorship. Why do I have to pay for an Arsenal ticket, are they trying to censor me? Why do I have to abide by my country’s constitution, Laws etc? Are they censoring me? Can’t just speed at 100mph in a 40mph zone. Are they censoring me?
It’s the same with Free Speech. Letting mud slinging overtake mature and intelligent discussions is off putting. That’s why I closed down my socials (Facebook and Twitter) about 8 years ago.. There is nothing much to gain on there apart from childishness memes, gifs and oneliners to get attention most of the time..
To me, too much of anything can lead to unintended consequences.. Let’s use Logic, Rationality and try to be as balanced as possible.. We can have banter and little sneaky snipes at each other but then if there is no line drawn between banter and personal insults then this site will turn into a typical social media site for trolls, we will lose proper debate and turn to one liners (Personal insults). Who wants that? If I want that sort of nonsense then I can go onto twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc.. Even twitter, Facebook etc have their own standards..
Libaterian Free Speech is a myth in my opinion. It will never happen as it is a recipe for disaster if it goes unchecked. Anarchy ensues.. This is how the human species / evolution has managed to form social communities that have served us somewhat well to where we are.. That’s why we have countries with Laws today. It all started 10’s of Thousands of year ago. We came up with these arbitrary Social practices to keep our own communities together in harmony. I know our human morality and understanding keeps improving and evolving everytime..
I can keep ranting on forever. But that’s the other abbreviated side on the Free Speech Argument..
Great reply, with much to agree about, from clearly a deep thinking man, Goonster. I would love to discuss this at much greater depth and make just one, right now, of several rebuttals to your lengthy post, which I MUCH ENJOYED READING btw.
That single(right now) rebuttal is that of course children need to be trained to behave and so NO, they should not have the right as young children to speak as freely as we adults can.
Kids do not have the life experience to know when and where to spreak up and when to stay silent. Nor do I think total untrammelled free speech on ALL occasuions are suitable. I TOOK THAT AS READ AND ASSUMED YOU WOULD THINK I KNOW BETTER THAN TO ADVOCATE THAT.
But at appropriate times, on appropriate platforms, I firmly believe in the right to speak freely. I would love to go much deeper into this fascinating subject but HEY, Pat will not permit it.
Jon, are you going to start calling me a little Hitler? Have I been draconian all the years I’ve been on here.
I am just asking for civil discussion and no insults, is that too much to ask?
PAT in no way have I everthought you remotely a !little Hitler”. He was an evil man and you are a good man and about as oposite that awful creature as it is possible to be.
Sorry If my reply to Goonster (above) gave you that impression , though I need to say I cannot understand how you could have possibly interpreted it in that incorrect way.
My last lime in that reply was simply- and no more then that- a perhaps too clumsy an attempt to end a discussion that I KNOW IS FAR TOO DEEP TO BE FULLLY AIRED ON ANY FOOTBALL SITE.
HOPE THAT EXPLAINS THINGS BETTER.
Goonster, at last there is something we can agree on.
Your post at 9.08am is very powerful and something I found myself nodding along to.
I couldn’t agree with you more and, perhaps, that’s why we cross swords too often – deep rooted beliefs that we stick with?
The whole reason I only use Just Arsenal is to air my intuitions and ideas re Arsenal. I don’t agree with some other opinions and they don’t agree with me, but every person has a right to his/her opinion. They are just beliefs. I am a Buddhist others are Christians and Moslems and I love to hear their ideas, in the same way with Arsenal. To really PERSONALLY attack people is silly. No one is right, nobody is wrong, it’s just opinions and belief. All generally are equal. Our “opinions” should be about Arsenal and not users of the thread. We are lucky on this site to be able to share all our opinions and beliefs….but that’s all they are.
Sean, as usual your comments are always sensible and to the point.
JA is a great site and it’s up to the subscribers to keep it as a place for ALL Gooners to debate, argue, agree and disagree, while remembering we all follow this great club.
@Sean William
But this is wrong; “No one is right, nobody is wrong, it’s just opinions and belief. All generally are equal.”
But a lot of time all Opinion is not always equal.. Some opinion might be closer to the truth as opposed to the other..
Isn’t it?
There is a fine dividing line between a personal opinion and unpleasantness towards other posters.
When that line is bridged then it needs to be called out
SueP
Who are unpleasant towards other posters?
That is an unworthy comment
It implies what exactly?
That you think I am unpleasant or that I should name those who are unpleasant to me?
I think he was just asking you who as been unpleasant towards you ,nothing sinister in his question ,he was being polite
Well that just then shows how sensitive we can become
I don’t like censorship but think people need to generally be kinder to each other. Having said that if I have offended anyone, please accept my apologies. If anyone really wants to see keyboard warriors have a real go at each other I suggest they go to LG. Gets really personal and toxic on there!
@declan
Can I respectfully decline thankyou lol
I understand what you’re feeling, just find a way to make them pay for their mistakes.
This may be a terrible idea and has nothing to do with Arsenal specifically but more the regular posters here…..
An article where everyone comments a bit about themselves like where they come from, what do do for work and/or hobbies and how/why they came to support Arsenal. Most of us know very little about each other and I think that contributes to rash responses and misunderstandings.
Prob not my best idea but thought I’d say it anyway.
*not meant as a reply to Mungule
PJ-SA I think that is an excellent idea and I’ll explain why! People are usually far nicer and more pleasantly disposed towards others they get to know and that includes on line friends at times too.
Suspicion and ignorance of how others really are and what makes them tick as people, in general, breeds distrust and often resentment, even envy as to lifestyle .
Being ruthlessly honest with oneself helps all of us by admitting to others AND to ourselves, our own faults and accepting that to be human – as we all are – means certainly having faults.
A great idea PJ-SA.
Doesn’t that just give more fodder for “personal attacks” (which could actually be personal if people knew more about each other)?
@Davi definitely a possibility but I guess you can’t let that dictate your actions or they’ve won already.
Fair point
Davi, yes it might be regarded as risky by some.
But brave and glass half full humans take risks constantly in life and tend to trust other peole whom they personally know.
Pessimists and glass half empty folk tend to do the opposite. Just a life observation based upon 71 years on this Earth.
I have personally been under attaack and called a liar for revealing a little about my life , over the years I have been a regular on JA.
But I put that down to the two or three distrusting particular people in question and do not distrust everyone else simply because a very few have attacked me.
That would not be fair and not mature.
Great idea PJ, I’ll work out how to introduce it…
Ridiculous comments
Wouldn’t that be an opinion
For example I think xhaka is our worst midfielder in decades some may disagree and call it ridiculous
That would be a dictatorial
Insulting players is common on here mate, whether I agree with them or not. (I don’t much agree as I think everyone wearing red and white should be supported.)
But I will certainly ask the commenter to explain why he dislikes the player so much.
I am though intrigued as to why you mentioned that as it wasn’t mentioned in the post or the discussion.
I hope he’s sold
ADMIN PAT, i congratulate you on your stance, and i am speaking as one , who, in the past, did use personal insults towards others on this site. something badly needs to be done here before everything gets out of hand , and we all begin to attack each other ,and, anarchy will prevail.however, i certainally hope that these rules, no matter if we like them, or dislike them, apply to ALL people on this site. i have, in the past ,seen various rules bent to facilitate one of the older members on here, and,also, one or two authors here.i consider myself to be an old man ,an this stage too, by the way.i will not get into what i mean by some rules being relaxed, but i will say, as in life, it depends on who you know on here. however,i fully believe that this time ADMIN PAT that you will play fairly regarding these rules. thank you and best of luck policing and enforcing the rules ,for EVERYBODYS enjoyable visits to here.
ger, I can read between the lines of your post, I think and hope, accurately too. Broadly speaking and to an extent, I share your view, though I retain doubts about the viability of any regularly used censorship.
I foresee either a sanitised and therefore less vibrant site OR things slowly slipping back into the bad old ways, neither of which are what is wanted.
jon fox, thank you sir, you are , of course, quite correct. i will say that there are intrestiing times ahead on this fine site.i am looking forward to seeing the rules being dispensed fairly and squarely , regardless of who one is . i have my doubts that this will last , but, lets just see.
Nice one, nice idea! What do we benefit by trading insults. Let’s just adhere to the rules stated. We are all fans and everybody has their rights to their opinion. We can disagree on issues but should not degenerate into abuse or insults.
I have always thought that when someone descends into personal abuse it usually means they have lost the argument.
Nice idea&i agree,but i will also suggest you ban posters like jonbo,loose cannon,goonster&the likes who can’t make any comment without abusing mr.wenger who has long left the club.i don’t comment as before because of those i mentioned because i don’t want to get in a heated argument with them that might get me banned…in summary,no more mention of wenger if you don’t have anything constructive to say about him.
Okay then have a pinned thread/live chat so that we can comment on latest happenings without going off topic. We don’t like going off topic it’s just that there is no pinned thread for latest developments.
Have I just walked onto a child’s playground..
It’s always been the same , pro Wenger / anti Wenger, bad fan good fan, real supporter / not a true supporter.
Grow up for Franks sake. Who (unless without any form of intelligence) blindly either supports or directly opposes something resolutely without analytical thought.
Stop telling tales to Pat people (you know who you are) and enjoy the run of the playground!
#sticksandstones
Thankyou AOT. I often feel like a primary school prefect lol
Ian Wright just recently asked a question on his Twitter account when people voiced negativity towards our new No 14 which says ” Should you see the said player you are abusing in person 1-1 can u repeat those said abuse in his face”.
I think that’s a valid question does who think they have right to abuse or constructive criticism of team and manager performance must come from them for being a fan of the team.
Admin pat thanks for calling us al out to respective discussions as a family of the Arsenal fan base.
There should not be any room for personal insult at any level or purpose.
Whoever felt this New step means draconian authorities over comment should pls look out for the well being of people who may not have the thick skin towards online abuse.
Thanks
@seroti
Fine line between abusing and having a negative comment towards a player (Eddie in question )if posting a comment believing that he’s not good enough is classed as abuse then the worlds gone mad ,but I get your point but like I said some fans will call it abuse others just criticism that’s the world we live in where some people get so emotional to the slightest thing .
Regarding your line about saying it to someone’s face ,personally I wouldn’t say anything on here that I wouldnt say in person but that’s just me ,I know there are a lot on social media that wouldn’t say boo to a goose if confronted in person .
DK You are in fact saying what I have long been saying. I maintain that the new woke movement is anti liberal, where one is not free to speak ones mind for “fear” of “upsetting” someone.
Or of upsetting someone who claims to be upset ON BEHALF OF ANOTHER PERSON(S).
Though I adore the female sex and firmly believe the world is a far better place in this day and age , now that women have (at least in the non Neanderthal regions of our planet)far more social influence in so many life and decision making matters, I do feel, that in SOME AREAS, we have become too soft and too fearful of plain speaking and are becoming afraid of our own shadow at times.
I fear that creeping tyranny of “woke” and consider it sinister and harmful to REAL fredom. I am a true liberal and I see wokeism as freedoms enemy. Just my take on life DK!
It’s no view admin,he accused us of attacking at them first when they are actually the ones who originated the foul language.
It’s not a war of words buddy,I think the article as gone completely over your head ,let’s just agree to disagree ,we all know that some of us can get emotional towards other fans (I’m no different ),let it go and breath as Pat as said his piece no need to start off another argument for the Sake of arguing .
But it has been like that FK for a long time now. Pro Arteta fans (who are almost all anti Wenger) have a go every single time at some who are unsatisfied with how the has been going have been labeled negative. They are even mentioned by names constantly like they have been marked.
Pro Arteta fans are not better themselves as evidenced by how DK spectacularly put LC in his place yesterday. I really enjoyed that.
So you enjoy it when two Arsenal fans are at each others throats?
“How ironic how disgusting how shameful that you call our fellow Arsenal supporters if they don’t support a manager that they see as lightweight and incompetent and in the same breath you constantly slag off our greatest manager every chance you get ,fans like you make me cringe TBH ,your not the only one but you head the pack that’s for sure .”
That is the comment in question. I really enjoyed how he was put in his place and it was about time too. That comment apply to many who have issue Arteta being criticized but themselves keep criticizing the great Arsene to this day despite all he did and achieve for the club.
If they have the right to criticize our best and greatest manager how dare they call negative people who criticize our worst manager?
And the thing I take issue with is labeling some posters and one writer negative when all they did to be called such is telling the truth of how things are according to how they think.
I think labeling fellow fans such should not be allowed. It’s not a nice thing.
I love Wenger and I’m behind our managers in general. Give them a fair chance to do their work and if it doesn’t work we will need to replace them.
Arteta has sorted out the mess which I believe was necessary. I’m quite sure he will hand over the club in a much better shape when he’s leaving compared to November 2019.
Arteta isn’t perfect, but I’m behind him another season and I’m optimistic about next season.
Well done @admin pat…..let me bring to the notice of this forum….The number of people who visits this site just to read comments and wont comment themselves are far greater than those who comment here on daily basis…we love the controversies here…..don’t forget they’re part of what makes football beautiful….
This is true. I used to read comments for years before I started commenting. I used not to remember commentors names though except for Sue.
Sometime I would just read headline and went straight to comments.
I appreciate what you are saying but it isnt about controversy, its about fair reasonable debate and banter, without the personal tones.
👍
take him to school Professor
The problem is a lack of respect for peoples opinions from a small few. It doesn’t matter if you are a little negative, massively negative, neutral, a little positive or massively positive. Not one person on hear is better for being any of the above, we are all the same. It doesn’t make you a better fan, if you are negative or positive, you are a fan. Like some one said, it is a lack of intelligence to just call people, instead of having an opinion and it is a lack of respect for that person’s thoughts. There are some on here i wont reply too not because of what they believe but what they believe in just personal insults and i wont reply too them because of that. I respectfully ask they dont reply to me, if they cant have an opinion. I might add there are mainly some very good posters on here but there are some that are just keyboard bullies and i will give them a wide berth so they can wollow in their own self entitlement.
I was going to comment on this thread earlier, but you know how I detest any negativity whatsoever
As Arsenal have pulled out of signing Raphinha this summer due to his stubborn preference to join Barcelona over Arsenal according to reports.
But which other top quality RW beside Gnabry in the market this summer transfer market will Arsenal switch their attention over to to sign him? So as to properly meet their team need at the RW of it next season.
Is Barca’s Osumane Dembele available? Who is a top quality RW playing at Barcelona. Or Seigy Gnabry playing at Bayern Munchen who could be available too. But if Arsenal considered him a good proposition who can return to Arsenal. And Bayern will not charge Arsenal over the odd transfer fee charged them to sign him.
But beside those duo RWs, who else Arsenal have in mind as their plan B options for signing this summer if their signing of Raphinha failed?
In view of this Arsenal failing to convince Raphinha their plan A RW signing option to join them this summer. But will Arsenal go for the signing of one of Gnabry or Dembele this summer as a replaced signing to Raphinha?
And will Arsenal want to gazumped Chelsea to the signing of Dembele? Chelsea who are reported to be keen in bringing him to Stamford Bridge this summer. Or would Arsenal preferred to focus on re-bringing Gnabry to The Emirates Stadium this summer?
Noted chief!
There is a particular someone who constantly thinks they are Mr “I know more about Arsenal than anyone because they were born in the 1940’s” and belittle other peoples
opinions constantly – I am guessing they will get a free pass !! However, I am younger and less cynical and cause you no grief !! Thank you for your constant hard work 🙂
@Fi
I think I know the person, I won’t just mention any names
😏😏😏😏😏😏😏
I haven’t been here for a while as I have been busy with my new baby. What did I miss?
I don’t for others but I don’t take anything I read here seriously or personal. I’ll read some comments and laugh and I’ll read some and just shake my head and scroll up. That’s how I think life should be.
A bit off topic just to piss off @Admin Pat. I read one article on Facebook that Gabriel Jesus has already signed for Arsenal, any news? @Admin Pat
I have learnt a lot in life. My comments are already moderated, and this act has made me to refrain from negative comments and even commenting regularly here. I have been here for a very long time, l still have a branded jersey l won on this site with me. Reminiscent those good period of economic boom on the site. I read a lot of comments on JA sites, and most of them discouraged me from commenting, especially the fans supporting the club manager instead of the club. Fans that are commenting in the opposite direction are pained because of lack of success especially when they were the ones who supported the exit of our great manager Arsene Wenger, the club is being seen on a downward spiral. Imagine, top 5 and 8 position is now being considered success for the only invincible club in England. Personally, let the abuse stop but let the banter on performance continue, my humble advice. I hope another season of better performance will be achieved by both club and fans come next season. Cheers
Making a lot of sense, dotash. Football fans are probably like husbands attending their wives’ school reunions, we go to the event despite having nothing else in common with each other, make polite small talk and after the event get on with our lives, until the next encounter. Or at least that’s how it used to be, but today with electronic media platforms we sometimes overstay our welcome as the lure of the keyboard draws us ever closer. To be honest Admin I don’t understand your current stance.Perhaps I’m lucky in not reading the comments which you have sensibly deemed as not fit for consumption. At the same time I think this charter is going too far. As Jon Fox commented, the shadow of woke culture is creeping ever closer and it’s not always good. Who exactly are you trying to protect the poor sensitive players, the management or so called fans who believe that loyalty to the shirt is all that matters? In brief a vibrant site allows for all types of opinions and greviences. As we all know nothing beats the pub post match match, post mortem. You say your piece and after a few hours move back into the real world where everything said has been forgotten.
Joe. S Such a down to Earth, mature post. I confess to seeing both sides on this subject.
I feel for Ad Pat, as though some may be surprised to read this point, I have always felt admiration for what Pat offers on here, not that anyone at all, least of all Pat, WOULD SUSPECT THAT , TO JUDGE FROM MY CONSTANT CRITICAL COMMENTS!
Without Pat, we would have no site worth debating Arsenal on. No other site holds a candle to this one and that is almost entirely down to the dedicated, hard and constant work that PAT GIVES US ALL, WITHOUT MUCH THANKS AND WITH PLENTY OF MOANS, NOT LEAST FROM MYSELF, TBH!
Now for the other hand! I distrust the whole concept of enforced restriction in speech for adults; though I FULLY ACCEPT that does not mean we have carte blanche to say absolutely anything to anybody and to be brutal.
Free speech neds to be used with intelligence, with sensible timing, on the right platform and is a philosophy of life , not a simple obeying of rules. The problem with using “intelligence” esp on social media, is that a deal of those who use socila media are far from intelligent and do not understand when and when NOT to use free speech.
As an intelligent person , I myself sometimes misuse it and so a DEGREE of restriction is probably wise, given that so many have made PATS DAILY ROUTINE A NIGHTMARE.
Sometimes in life, you have to stand up for your principles by giving way, at least a little , for the greater good and find another way to achieve our aim.
This is, as we both recognise, a very nuanced matter with no easy magic bullet type solution.
PJ-SA brilliant idea.
One of my weaknesses is enjoying the rant and conspiracy theories on JA as share entertainment.
Maybe one of my favorite pass time is reading JA while traveling
Scary judge picture AD PAT Hope its not you , or we are all for the rope round our necks! LOL
Thank you admin it’s necessary and I support it 💯, keep up the good work. I will do my best to behave 😉
Agreed. You can have a good difference of opinions without it getting personal. There is no way we will all agree on anything Arsenal-related. I like the different points-of-view even when I don’t agree, but the threads can deteriorate pretty quickly sometimes.