Manchester City and Juventus by Ken 1945
As I watched the Man City players being awarded the PL title after Arsenal failed to take advantage of the previous commanding lead, I wondered how long it will take for the charges brought against Pep Guardiola’s side to be either proved or discounted?
Of course, neither the players or the supporters of Man City are involved in this and, likewise, they have no idea if there is any truth in the claims.
Then, while reading through the news across the footballing world, I came across the fact that, once again, Juventus had been found guilty of breaking the rules and deducted 10 points for transfer irregularities. They were originally docked 15 points in January, but lodged an appeal which has seem it reduced to 10 points. The consequence of that ruling still means they have dropped from second place into a present 7th, and are now nearly certain to miss out on the Champions League place next season. Even that may be a moot pint, as it is possible that UEFA could ban Juventus from Europe anyway…
UEFA have accused them of a “breach of Fair Play rules and sporting probity, second breach of FFP regulations.” and the investigation should conclude next month.
This punishment, related to charges from Serie A and upheld by the FIGC Court of Appeal, from what I could deduce, was from the last two seasons.
Now, it’s been reported in the media that it could take up to four years of legal arguments, before the multiple charges against Man City by the PL will reach the courts.
My question is, if City are found guilty and the retrospective punishment looks at each season in isolation, would we see the same kind of punishment given to City and what would the results mean to football itself?
A quick calculation on my part, not perfect I should add, would see them lose three of their PL titles, but it would be the fall out from that decision that would rock the game to its core.
I’m not suggesting this in the hope that The Arsenal would be awarded the title, that would be crass in the extreme.
In fact, I think that any title season taken from Man City should be declared null and void – who would really want to win it like that?
But, surely, it needs the PL and City to step up and ensure the accusations are dealt with as quickly as it has in Italy?
If a guilty verdict is given, the knock on effect would be unbelievable… that’s why I hope that Man City have been squeaky clean, for the sake of the wonderful game of football.
ken1945
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Man City face more than 100 charges of financial wrongdoing, so they have a slim chance to clear all those allegations
Let’s see whether the FA will be more honest than the Italian FIGC or not. If Man City are found guilty and stripped of their titles, I think UAE will stop investing in EPL
I don’t think the FA have any input on this, it’s the PL on their own, unless I’ve missed something.
Italian football association or the FIGC imposed the punishment. I believe England football association or the FA should have similar authority
Maybe, but it’s the Premier League, backed by most of the clubs, that is making this case against City, and who will set the punishment in the event of proven guilt.
Jax is right,it is the PL and not the FA.
And that will never happen. Manchester City will never be stripped of titles,,,, nor will Manchester City ever be kicked out of the English Premier League. I don’t know where people get those ridiculous ideas from. Obviously alot of people only went as far as grade one. The worst outcome for Manchester City would be a massive points deduction over so many future seasons they’ve been found guilty of cheating. That would not be hard to prove if found guilty. If it took 4 years to gather information against Manchester City,,, how long do you think this will all be wrapped up in?? It’s not Rocket Science
It’s all down to having the stomach to stand up for the principles you have brought into football in relation to the FFP rules, in the face of counteractions from some of the best legal minds in the world. I am personally not up for City being stripped of titles, and them being awarded to Arsenal. Liverpool or whoever. BUT, they need to be punished, and if they are especially found guilty of fabricating the true value of Mancini’s contract that is not only an infringement on the FA’s rules but Financial/Tax Fraud that should lead to a criminal case involving HMRC. The lesson that should be learned from strict enforcement to any prospective billionaire is you can’t buy a relatively smaller club pump billions into it and then reap the rewards. Clubs must live within their means.
It’s the Premier League making the charges this time, with most of the clubs firmly behind it, and in the event of City being found guilty of any of the 115 charges, punishments would only apply to the years in which the offenses occurred, so very doubtful of any Arsenal benefit.
But would the PL weaken their product by chucking the currently most successful and probably best team in the world out? As much as I’d like to see it happen I think it would be a bit of an own goal.
Fines wouldn’t make much of a dent in their bank balance, points deductions might prevent Champion’s League qualification, and asterisks against their “winning” years would at least remind everyone (including some obnoxious celebrity supporters) of their cheating achievements.
It’s going to take some time yet, but I think that the PL would want to be seen as coming down hard on financial cheats.
The games will be more competitive and unpredictable without one team on cash steroids.
Is financial irregularities responsible for the success of Man City on the pitch? Those that wants Man City points deducted have no respect for Man City or football fans all over the world. Can any ban change the recorded video of the games they have won on the pitch in the past I believe if all teams in EPL are investigated, no team will come out clean. I believe all these investigations are borne out of jealousy. If a club found guilty of financial irregularities, fine the club financially. I believe you can only deduct points if a club is found guilty of match fixing. How are we going to feel if Arsenal is declared winner of the EPL on paper and not on the field because Man City won on the field. We need to respect the Man City players that sweat it out and won the games on the field.
Why should we be discusing Manchester city’s problems
I honestly don’t care what happens in Manchester
I came here to read about arsenal not machester city
Possibly because City’s alleged false accounting has affected Arsenal adversely in the years since they were bought by the Sheiks.
But it WILL affect Arsenal, along with every other PL club around when city, allegedly, broke the rules.
Are you so blind that you cannot see that?
If they are found guilty in a English court, then uefa and fifa would have to bacj that decision up.
I also stated that I don’t believe ANY clubs should benefit from city’s demise (if it happens) but if Juventus have been deducted ten points for transfer irregularities, it has to follow that city would receive the same kind of punishment.
Imagine if city do the treble this season and are then found guilty – how on earth could that stand, along with any trophy they won during the times these allegations took place?
Perhaps you should open your eyes, as this could be an absolute bombshell, not only for the PL, but football itself…. of which The Arsenal are part of, in case you haven’t noticed!!
Ken1945, I don’t think “any title season taken from Man City” could be retrospectively voided because of the implications for teams that lost points (and were possibly relegated because of it) against them. And also the final positioning of the top four teams, and any that missed out on the top four etc.
I read somewhere that they have a lawyer on each one of the 115 charges. Don’t know the truth of that, but they can certainly afford it.
But that’s what I’m saying Jax, this could be an absolute can of worms and I agree city, if found guilty, could be facing enormous claims from affected clubs.
That’s why I also think and respect Pep for wanting a swift conclusion to these allegations and it’s him, the players and the supporters I feel for if the club is found guilty.
The world of sport needs a level playing field, otherwise competition is irrelevant. The league is turning into a farmers league? Why bother getting out of bed (your own bed) for a boring sporting event where the outcome is predictable.
If the said authorities don’t fix up? They’ll have a product in a downhill spiral. Man City should be stripped of their accolades. And take away Man Utd’s too! Well because they’re Man Utd.
To answer the articles pertinent question as realistically and honestly as I can ,I think it it is because City have unlimited funds and will employ the world best and most expensive lawyers.
And such people know all the tricks of DELAYING JUSTICE coming out.
Hence we are looking at years, not months.
.Juventus, by contrast, have not that “luxury”.
Jon, forget the money.
As man who says he believes in truth and justice, do you not see that the ten point deduction for Juventus is opening the floodgates for ANY club found guilty of irregularities?
To think that Juve are not able to afford top lawyers is wrong – that was why they got the initial 15 point deduction withdrawn, despite the evidence presented.
“FORGET THE MONEY???!!!”
In other words, forget the main reason why City can delay justic?
You forget it if you want to!
I won’t!
No matter how long they can delay it, IF the charges are correct, nio amount of money will stop them from being proven.
Agreed ! But in the meantime, we two over70 year olds are not getting any younger and while I cant speak for you KEN, I want this sorted ASAP, since I THINK THEY WILL BE HEAVILY PUNISHED, TO OUR FUTURE ADVANTAGE.
I do agree though that it will very probably not be a retrospective punishment , even though I would not claim that with any REAL CERTAINTY at all.
Too much is unknown to us, for any forecast to claim accuracy, I suggest.
@jon fox
Unlimited funds plus influence no doubt. These powerful organizations always get away with it. Just look at Pfizer and FDA. They originally wanted 75 years to release their data, until a court order forced them to.
You then finally think they’ll be in trouble until you find out they got your government to agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless Pfizer. Corruption of the highest order!
City will just pay a fine, and maybe a one or two transfer window ban at most, which makes zero difference given their wealth and quality of squad.
I would be stunned if they were docked points or retrospectively punished.
So said those connected with Juventus I would suggest Jen.
So you seriously suggest Juventus have a similar influence in being able to avoiding punishment as do City?
“Naive” does not begin to cut THAT simplistic view!
Oh I do Jon, otherwise why were they able to get the original 15 points cancelled AND THEN reduced to 10?
You make Juventus sound like some two bit Sunday operation, when, in reality, they are one of Europe’s elite clubs.
JEN IF PROVENGUILTY, I am convinced a mere fine will not be the prime punishment Even a huge fine is effectively NO punishment to them at all.
NOR A MERE WINDOW OR TWO BAN.
So I reject your opinion on both as being unrealistic!
I don’t think City will be stripped of their titles but i really hope they can be relegated out of the league. Retrospectively dropping City titles opens another can of worms when teams who have lost vital pts vs them to ensure survival or place in europe start asking for reimbursement and so on. Also titles will be feel hollow.
But kicked out of the league that would be humongous statement from the epl. Cheat and take us for idiots while using every delaying tactics in the books and see what happens.
Great example of F**k around and Find out
You seem to be confused @Akcshay.all City want is to have the situation sorted ASAP.it is the FA which are delaying the whole process.if after 4 years they are not ready to courts ,it means one thing,they do not believe they have a chance of winning,all the while being aware of the damage all that uncertainty does to City.
One correction, it’s the PL and not the FA,my bad.
You’ve got it Ackdshay, by jove I think you’ve got it!!!
I am no legal expert but the fact that after 4 years,the FA are still not prepared/ready to go with the charges.it tells me that they do not think they can win and that it will end with City being found not guilty.
Siamois, the charges have been made and city will dispute them.
The four years you quote, is the time “experts” believe it will take to get city to the courts, as they are expected to challenge each and every one of the charges.
Sorry @Ken1945.
The Premier League – which opened its investigation in March 2019…..
And they gave now concluded their investigations and have now charged city with over 100 alleged crimes.
I don’t think city were very helpful during those four years, do you?
Tge fact that they have now decided the case against city is strong enough to charge them, tells me they are more than ready Siamois.
Correct Ken. And therefore far more street wise than Juventus That is what not merely “top lawyers” but the VERY BEST WORLD CLASS AND HUGELY EXPENSIVE corrupt lawyers can accomplish.
Thanks for making my case, which you disgree about further up this thread, so well.
Dear oh dear Jon – quite the opposite.
Charges have been brought, despite the lawyers who represent city trying to stop them from being issued.
Saying that there is no case to answer and then trying to prove it, has been impossible for them to do.
Why a person of your self acclaimed legal brain cannot see this, I fail to understand.
KEN, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU THINK WE ARE AT ODDS OVER THIS, AS WE ARE NOT.
I never suggested the top lawyers would be likely to get them off. Not at all. I did suggest that comparewd to Juventus, Citys lawyers wil be a different matter , But that was ALL I said. No more than that. Anything else was just your incorrect assumption of what I said.
BUT HEY, NOTHING NEW THERE!
MERELY THAT THEY WILL DELAY JUSTICE. NOT ULTIMATELY THWART IT.
One correction, it’s the PL and not the FA,my bad.
If Man City have cheated the rules and are found guilty, retrospectively stripping them of titles would not go down well for any club’s supporters, who wants to be awarded a title like that. Not me anyway. What I would like to see is that all their prize money is paid pack + a huge fine and that gets shared out between all the clubs, on all the divisions. As a gesture all Premier League clubs then to refuse the money and pass it down to the lower divisions so it benefits grass roots football. In the Premier league, the money we speak about when buying and selling players is absolutely obscene, just a fraction of the money we pay for one player, can make such a big difference to the clubs in the lower leagues for upgrading training facilities, travel expenses, ground keeping etc. My opinion it’s grass roots football that should benefit, if their is a fine. Yeah, slap a ban on Man city as well from buying players but of they do that, it needs to be a long one, as in 5 year ban where they can only sign free transfers and let time slowly level the playing field from their cheating accumulation of star players.
I do not think it will happen,just imagine the damage it will do to the PL reputation.it would be admitting that the last few seasons,the PL has been a sham.i know many people will disagree but matches/titles..are won on the pitch .
But it HAS happened in Italy Siamois, so why not here?