Arsenal More Class Or Less Ambition Then Chelsea? By Dan Smith
Chelsea didn’t need to sack Frank Lampard to convince me how ruthless they can be. This is the club who got rid of the man who ended their 50 year wait for a title the moment he failed to retain it.
12 months after winning the Double, Carlo Ancelotti was informed in the tunnel at Goodison Park his services were no longer required.
Conte lost his job after failure to retain the Premiership title.
AVB and Scolari didn’t even last a season.
Sari was in a unique situation of his last game for the Blues being lifting the Europa League trophy (although it’s believed him leaving was a mutual agreement).
Not just did Frank Lampard play under the majority of those managers, he’s been reported to have held major influence in the dressing room under each of them. In other words, he knew how his employers operate.
If you work at Stamford Bridge, any coach will get financially backed both in terms of their own salary and in the transfer market. The consequence of that is a demand of high standards.
For many, the reward is worth the risk, the worst-case scenario is you get a massive pay off.
Yet to Chelsea fans this will be like shooting Bambi! It’s the equivalent of us sacking Thierry Henry or Liverpool Gerrard.
Purely based on being a legend, sentiment would demand that they get longer than 18 months and one window to prove yourself, especially when you did achieve the criteria set in your first year without spending a penny.
You can’t help make comparisons with Arsenal’s current situation.
Like our London rivals, we hired a rookie (Lampard had 12 months experience) based on him being a former player for us.
Arteta’s legacy can’t be compared to Lampard’s. One won every domestic honour possible and is the greatest scorer in their history, the other’s prime was at Everton.
Yet it’s Lampard who is given his P45 first, despite doing better in the League.
Lampard qualified for Europe’s elite competition, Arteta advanced to UEFA’S ugly cousin.
Lampard finished 4th, Arteta our worst position in 25 years, 8th.
Even the day he leaves, Lampard departs with Chelsea above us.
So how can Edu say Arteta’s doing a ‘great job’, when Chelsea (a club we should be competing with) sack their boss for midtable ‘not meeting our expectations’.
There are readers who feel I pick on Stan Kroenke, ask what more he can do and what I expect from him.
Some manipulate the stats to show that Kroenke’s net spend has been bigger then Roman Abramovich’s over the last few years. In reality that’s because Chelsea have been better at selling talent for big prices.
If you compare the ambition of the two billionaires, it’s night and day.
Not happy being so far behind Liverpool, one responded by investing almost 200 million in the squad, the other approx. 80 million.
In life you should always try to be the best version of yourself. That’s all I ever want Arsenal to be.
Yet our owner doesn’t care where we finish because he’s guaranteed to get his TV revenue.
Look at the two business models.
Mr Abramovich would have ordered this sacking because he wants Chelsea to win things. What’s our owner doing to help improve our worst start in decades? Make it a priority to slash the wage bill and only authorize loan signings!
The Russian essentially has a zero tolerance to failure. He spends 200 million, he expects a title, if not he will bring someone else in and spend again.
Our equivalent only cares about making money.
That’s why the likes of Chelsea and Man United are almost guaranteed to be Champions before we will be, because they will keep throwing money at the wall until it sticks.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not wishing Arteta to be sacked. What’s the point while Stan Kroenke owns the club?
Chelsea have again showed a lack of class treating a man who captained them to the European Cup this way. I don’t want Arsenal to be that way.
You could argue if you hire a manager to learn on the job, it wouldn’t be fair to give up on the man you appointed for making mistakes.
Yet I can’t help but see the comparison. Chelsea sack managers but spend money. We don’t sack managers but … don’t spend money.
When I hear that Chelsea simply think it’s unacceptable to be in their position in January, I can’t help but ask why are we not thinking like that?
I would say Man United have the balance. When Ole’s had his sticky moments his club gave him time and backed him. For example 12 months ago they brought Fernandes who got them into the top 4. Again compare that to our current transfer policy.
Arsenal have more class then Chelsea, but does this again prove they have more ambition?
Be Kind In the Comments
Dan
Got to be less Ambition. And as for Arteta 🤐🤐🤐🤐
Give Louis Hamilton a Haas car and expect him to win the championship?
The writer omits the fact that Arteta won the FA, something Frank didn’t. Arteta could manage CFC to winning the title with the players he has at his disposal.
With the “mole” and garbage binned, Arsenal is getting better. The FA loss is a blessing in disguise as it is confirmed that Xhaka, Elneny, Pepe, Willian are utter useless and need to be binned, the sooner the better.
Loose Cannon Totally agree trying to cut the wage bill so he signs willian on 3 year contract £220 000 Pepe god knows what he is on and Xhaka get rid of
Lampard was brought in to do a job get shot of the deadwood Job done. Now get top manager to finish the job of getting the players to GEL and to get the best out of them. Maybe Arsenal are on the same song sheet who knows??
I was counting down for this article after Lampard was sacked but to be fair Dan, you’ve done a good job to recognise the nuances. Nice job.
For me it come down to expectations of a hiring an inexperienced manager. ManU seems to understand that patience is required, we”ll see if it pays off. We look to be on the same route. Chelsea was never going to go down that road. Personally I’m pleased we are giving Arteta time.
I’ll leave it to others on whether Chelsea is ambitious or classless.
Just like Emery got time with his CV. Time will tell how long. Mikel Arteta gets, particularly if Arsenal don’t get the results to climb up the table, or don’t beat Benifica?
I wouldn’t say Arsenal have kept Arteta out of class it’s more about saving money! The team has been awful this season and if Arteta was anywhere else he would have been sacked! We can’t keep using the Arsenal have class card as to why we stick to underperforming managers! 11th in the table is disgraceful for a club the size of Arsenal. But it is what it is and I’ll still support the manager, I just hope we can start moving up the table and have a good Europa League campaign.
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I agree, Kev. One of the big names would’ve expected mega bucks to spend – no chance!
With Chelsea and all the money they spent, they were expected to win everything and look at their results! Lampard had the lowest points per game ratio of any manager in the Abramovich era… doesn’t matter that he’s their top scorer and a club legend…they’re ruthless and I was shocked at the number of managers they have had! I noticed Tuchel has 18 months with the option of an extra year… wonder if he’ll make the extra year?
Like you, I hope for a surge up the table and to go far in Europe as that’s all we have left now…
– Abramovich is richer, more into football and more willing to spend for his team than Kroenke
– Lampard’s tactics are worse than Arteta’s
– Lampard seemed to have lost the dressing room, whereas Arteta seems to still have his players’ support
N yet Chelsea are in FA cup and group topper in cahmpions league while sitting above us in league as well. Arteta shunned 4-5 players n still you think he has support of players n doing well.???
Despite still having FA Cup and UCL, Chelsea are just two points above us in EPL. Lampard spent 200 M in the summer, so the result isn’t good enough
Had Arteta not got his players’ support, we wouldn’t have the winning streak. The next tough games would really test his system though
Kronke is backing Arteta, but Arteta is buying substandard players like Mari, Gabriel, Suares, and Willian. That’s poor investment, and Kronke should crack the whip
– Mari was a part of the team that won us five games in a row
– Magalhaes is in his first season in England and he got Player of the Month title several times
– Soares is doing good as an RB, despite being awkward as LB
– Willian is in his first season at Arsenal and he just started as CAM once, with some fringe players around him
It’s not all about throwing in money. How did Lampard finish 4th when he didn’t sign even 1 player. For Arsenal, 8th is a good position that Arteta should be praised for finishing in that position
I agree that getting into top 4 isn’t always about transfer budget. I guess Arsenal would like to be patient as what Man United did with Solsjkaer and what Liverpool did with Klopp
I also believe the board still deem Arteta to be the best manager for Arsenal. Arteta’s tactics are the best I’ve ever seen at Arsenal
“Arteta’s tactics are the best I’ve ever seen at Arsenal.”
gotanidea, you are surely being sarcastic? Bertie Mee would leave Mikel Arteta for dead, let alone George Graham and Arsene Wenger.
Never saw Mee’s and Graham’s tactics, but Arteta’s are much more intricate than Wenger’s, Emery’s and Ljungberg’s. Wenger’s 4-2-3-1 was highly vulnerable to counter-attacks, but Arteta’s is better defensively and has some twists in it
gotanidea That don’t make any difference it is results that count the players can love you but it all comes down to RESULTS
Don’t agree with the sacking of Lampard. Man u gave their manager plenty of time and they are now benefitting, same applies to Liverpool. Give Arteta time and we will achieve. He needs to get rid of the dead wood, employ younger players with an appetite for the game.
Please Edu no more has beens!!
We don’t have more class, ask the 55 redundant staff members
We definitely have less ambition than Chelsea
As for Man U coming good….they are playing well at the moment yes but they have been average for the majority of OGS reign. They may have turned the corner permanently or could just be going through a good patch for a while. They’ve won nothing for a long time now, only time will tell if the patience that’s been shown will pay off. They got Fernandes yes but we got Partey and spent 72 mil on Pepe so we can’t say anything really
Also looking at only one example is clear survivorship bias. There’s plenty of examples where patience was shown and it failed….so let’s be objective.
I believe MA has done extremely well considering his experience level and i do back him….that being said there could be better options out there for Arsenal with more experience.
Keeping a manager has nothing at all to do with class or lack of. Top teams demand top results and managers that are accountable. If they succeed they get remunerated very very handsomely, if they are failing the standard expected, they are fired. Chelsea agree or not sack managers that aren’t delivering and are not allowed to fester and when they join they know that. Its a result business, well it is for top teams that demand high standards.
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Is Arteta under pressure from above to play his expensive deadbeats (Pepe and Willian) in the hopes that they will finally prove their worth, and perhaps deflect any criticism against the idiots who signed them? I have heard critics go on at Arteta saying he does not know his best team. Perhaps he does know it, but is not always allowed to play it!
Nothing to do with class here,its all about the difference in ambition by the two owners.S.K cares less about trophies as long as he is taking more money home than what he is investing in the team.
I am not a fan of sacking the manager whenever things are thick but for some reasons if Lamps is dismissed then Arteta should have left before him.Arteta seems not to learn his lessons,we are a goal down then he brings on Saka to play as left back with all the defenders we have?we still have a serious problem.I am sure this amateurish decisions will cost him for sure.
You are writing false facts.
Arsenal have had a higher nett spend than Chelsea over the last 5-6 years. It is a simple fact, whch have been verified many times.
But I will do it once more:
Top 6 – Investment (nett transfers) in squad 5 year history (2016/17 – 2010/21)
1) Man City – 626.5 m
2) Man Utd – 557 m
3) Arsenal – 343 m
4) Chelsea – 293 m
5) Tottenham – 227 m
6) Liverpool – 120 m
It is time you accept these simple facts.
Sorry – small mistake the table is:
Top 6 – Investment (nett transfers) in squad 5 year history (2016/17 – 2020/21)
1) Man City – 626.5 m
2) Man Utd – 557 m
3) Arsenal – 343 m
4) Chelsea – 293 m
5) Tottenham – 227 m
6) Liverpool – 120 m
Thank you! People will always argue that net spend doesn’t mean the owner has added any funding but rather its the clubs own revenue. This point is irrelevant though, the clubs self generated revenue is the owners money!
Fact is our recruitment is average and our selling is horrific. This has been a problem going on for decades.
E.g. termination of contracts instead of selling when player has value
Yes, it is a simple fact, but for some reason the writer will accuse Arsenal/Kroenke on a false basis in the majority of his contributions.
It is a pity, as some believe it to be true, and it makes for a debate that really is way off target.
👍 PJ-SA
Can you give me the net spend since koronke got on the board ?
Why are people concerned about Kronke’s money instead of Arsenal money. Kronke does not accumulate his wealth through Arsenal only. What’s the highest price that Arsenal has sold a player for? Wenger was better in negotiating deals. Now players are being given out for free
No, I don’t have the all the way since Kroenke got on the board. But here is the latest 10 years:
5) Tottenham – 227 m
6) Liverpool – 120 m
Top 6 – Investment (nett transfers) in squad 10 year history (2011/12 – 2020/21)
1) Man City – 1022 m
2) Man Utd – 947 m
3) Chelsea – 497 m
4) Arsenal – 473 m
5) Liverpool – 336 m
6) Tottenham – 168 m
Again, Chelsea have not outspent us. So by using that premise again and again in your aeticles, you are simply dead againt the realities.
You have Chelsea above us ?
At best you could argue Chelsea have sold well.but that’s about it
Since koronk e been on board can I ask ?
Were fabregas and nasri replaced ?
Did vanpersie get sold to our rivals ?
Can I ask who replaced Ramsey ?
Who replaced Ozil?
When we needed a defender we sold Koscielney and got Luiz
We responded to our worst ever finish by spending wat 50 million
This Jan we can only afford loans
Comparing apples with pears Anders! What about the spend since they both became manegers? I think that may paint a different picture. Plus maybe just the gross spend figure to compare the two, as Chelsea sell for real money, whereas we just give our players away.
@guy, Last two seasons we have spent 155m n 77m where as Chelsea have spent 0m n 221m so both are around same mark. Now don’t say Arteta only spent 77m as he was not incharge last year but then Lampard spent 0 last year n still finished in top 4. So who is better then??
Which zero? I’m sure Chelsea signed pulisic and kovacic before this season 220m ryt?
I am merely pointing out that Dan Smiith again and agian in his articles claim Arsenal/Kroenke is not spending, and every so often it is indicated that is the reason for us being behind other clubs.
That accusation is false and not based on facts. We have spent plenty, so this is NOT the reason.
You havnt though lol
Who spent more in the summer us or Chelsea ?
Well said AmdresS…we have spent more then Chelsea but still some fans blame owner n say Chelsea have bought their success.
In last two seasons we havnt spent more then Chelsea and re!ember Chelsea have been champions so havnt always needed help
But anyway can you show me this summer how we spent more
No, I can’t tell you we spent more this summer. You can easily find single windows, where Chelsea spent more than us. But the overall reality is that Chelseas have not outspent us, The fact is seen over the the total latest 5 years, we have outspent Chelsean and over a 10 year period, it is more or less even.
So every time you have put forward the opposite, you have done it either from lack of knowledge or is there another agenda?
Why not just accept the facts and if you want to attack Kroenke, then do it based on facts.
So wait Chelsea have spent more then us this summer
And since koronke been on board
So what am I lieing about ?
No we havnt ?
So I thought it be fair to this it this way
Now bear in mind I am apparently misleading readers by suggesting Chelsea spend more then us
So since Mr Koronke been on our board he’s spent 875 million
To be fair I compared the same amount of time Chelsea spent 1475 !
Bear in mind Chelsea had 2 transfer windows banned yet still spent 600 million more since our owner arrived
You are misleding the readers (and maybe yourself) by time and time again claiming Kroenke isn’t willing to invest in the team, and that it should be our problem.
Nett spend is the only number that shows the facts on willingness to spend, and those facts show, we have outspent Chelsea the last 5 years, and we are more or less on the same level over the last 10 years.
Now you appear to bring gross spend into the equation. But that has absolutely nothing to do with it. So I repeat: You are dead wrong when you claim Kroenke isn’t willing to spend. It is fact proven, he is. You have to search for other reasons to why we haven’t done better for least the last 5 years.
Arteta is taking us nowhere. Otherwise it would have shown in our performances. Simple
We are not a big club anymore and we dont act like one. The club from top to bottom is run by amateurs or at least people who make amateurish mistakes. I want Arteta to succeed but i cant see how he is going to. The only hope we have is youth and except for one or two, he treats them awfully compared to the “senior” players. I personally still fail to see his stamp or direction on the team, he makes errors of judgement on a regular basis and if he was Chelsea manager, he would have been sacked weeks ago. We will see from Chelsea to us which decision reaps rewards and which fails.
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Dan, I find your be kind in your comments very funny because you always write the opinions that are thought and debate provoking.
Look some of the contributors here don’t entertain any criticism of Arteta , they shout down, insult and see him through rose tinted glasses. So I expect there will be some unkind comments
I honestly think Arsenal settles for mediocrity and this shows in Arteta s appointment and the tolerance for our results and league position. He was an appointment on sentiment without any consideration for his experience and his ability to take the club forward. Chelsea also appointed Lampard without any great track record, their owner is less tolerant of poor results and is not shy of pulling the plug when things have gone against his plans and ambitions for the club.
Arteta and Edu will be backed because our owner and boards are only too willing to accept mediocrity in exchange for revenue . These two relatively inexperienced hands are left to run the club’s affairs at their whim. Just assess the results objectively, the transfer decisions and loan decisions objectively and see who can show through results and our position argue different. The truth is Arsenal’s future in Europe and league position is at risk because we are suffering with sentimental obsession with a manager with no track record and a high tolerance for mediocrity. I would love for Arteta to lift Arsenal to new heights and prove me wrong, but looking at our style of play, our results and his arrogance I fear for our beloved Arsenal.
Be kind in the comments means not being personal or insulting to one another
If we can’t debate without doing that then I don’t engage
You see SAG – very few comments critical of the article. You forget that by and large those thinking Arteta should have more time are the patient, reasoning ones. It’s interesting that you are expecting us to be as vitriolic as other fans were and still are.
I was until our winning streak began an “Arteta Outer” although I always asked that he be judged only at season’s end. Now I see some light I am still undecided overall, but a lot more hopeful. But the nicest part is that I am a lot calmer now. I respect others opinions and only react when I see the personal abuse directed towards others who have done nothing to deserve it. I don’t want us to become like the Chelsea fanbase – surely we are above that?
Its clear Chelsea have more ambitions as Arteta should have been sacked ages ago Arsenal are a mid table mediocre team with a owner that just cares about raking in the money and little else will show again tomorrow when Southampton prove Saturday was no fluke and beat us in the league then hear all the pathetic excuses from a person pretending to be a manager but is absolutely clueless!!
They might have class but it can’t win u nothing and am sure most fan wud rather silverware instead boring class, and they certainty lack ambition, let’s be honest yeah, arsenal lack ambition big time , no drive to win, and they have become master of small club mentality that’s why they can’t go and take a player from a club like Norwich
It’s definitely lack of ambition on our part….
To be fair to Abramovic, he rightly feels teams like Man U (with far less talent) are doing wonders under rookies like Solskjaer.
On our part, I conversely see lack of ambition because of same reason. Our squad is far more talented than Man U squad!!!! But why aren’t we showing any progress????
– No style of play
– Walking pace football
– Atrocious passing
– Trying different formations with so-called academy players,,, mind U what’s helping Solskjaer is playing senior players!! No one wins with kids.
All these are the responsibility of a coach to improve…
Every day I sit there and ask myself how a team with Aubameyang, Lacazette, Willian, Pepe, Partey, Luiz, Leno, Ceballos, Saka, Tierney —- ((all world-class players)) can fail to challenge for the EPL.
Herbz! I agree we are playing some crappy football but to say that our squad is better than Man Utd’s is a tad optimistic!
And Pepe, Willian, Luiz, Ceballos are world class? Im being generous by not including almost every plyer you mentioned btw.
I would love it if you were right, but…no my friend.
I was dreading this being raised. Now the trolls will be out with their knives. I’m not a stats quoter, so I will just mention a few things:
In the last 25 years Arsenal have had 4 managers, including Ljungberg. Chelsea have had 18. Two diffent cultures, chalk and cheese. Not just here, but you cannot compare Chelsea’s treatment of their manager with any other club in Britain.
The cost of replacing Lampard will possibly exceed our entire transfer budget this season. Want that trade?
Chelsea are hardly way above us – 2 points.
Lampard spent 200 mil last summer to get that 2 point lead. Oh and its perverse to sack a manaer who is moving up the table when you have retained him when we were in freefall.
I think Watford give Chelsea a pretty good run for their money!
lol Trudeau youre right – average 1 a year in 25 years.
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Stats are great to try support your argument but absolutely pointless in the real world.
4 managers, 3 actually…wow great right? Means stability and success since our managers had longevity? BUT then you look at rreality. We won 8 FA and Community shields, 3 EPL titles. Chelsea? 5 titles, 1 Champions league, 3 Europa, 7 FA, 3 Carabao, 3 Community and the majority of Chelsea trophies in the last 25 years
My only gripe with our manager is that having played under wenger, he is adopting his bad habits….it seems its my way or highway. Favourites who are not even championship level….Xhaka, Nketiah, Kola, Willock, Holding and I am really dissapointed with willan who does not work with his poor tactics, Our manager is unable to adapt or then counter the opposing team. Poor substitutions,. Players in the wrong positions so his favourites play in theirs. Apparantly keeps a grudge…explains why he has sidelined ozil, guendouzi, torreira, saliba.
He needs to go, now. His playing style and tactics show he is out of his depth as the head coach. Needs to continue his learning elsewhere. Arsenal is too big to be an experiment.
I definitely believe arteta will be sack at some point soonest, I can’t see him doing better than lampard
I don’t know how a manager is expected to manage a team in less than two years in charge. They must have complete oversight of players incoming and outgoing. They must have several transfer Windows to make these changes possible. I actually think managers need protecting today from this crazy hire and fire mid season. It’s bonkers to this someone is able to turn a team a squad and academy players transfers in less than two years it’s just not possible. As for Frank I feel sorry for him (although he wouldn’t want people to) because he really hasn’t done anything majorly wrong. We are even hearing that he didn’t have a say on which players were purchased which makes sense when you see how some of the purchase added completion for places and some positions were still lacking and needed better players. But above all else I think Frank has earned enough respect from Chelsea over the years to at least be told at the end of a season not midway through, I think that is very unfair and he didn’t deserve that.
Agree mig – nowadays though everyone seems to wants instant success. Don’t get it then they need somebody to blame. We no longer have a tolerant society. Don’t agree wih me and I will criticise you as a person – even amongst Arsenal fans.
MIG, the situation was worse for Unai Emery and he had to follow the great Arsene Wenger. Any manager/coach must have a say in the players brought in to play for him, as a bare minimum.
The issues at Arsenal are beyond the manager. For some years the management selected by KS&E to manage the financial and player assets of Arsenal FC have been substandard for a Club of its status and history. It is interesting to note that even under Arsene Wenger, the results achieved never again reached the heights obtained by Arsenal when David Dein was working in partnership with him and facilitating the off field activities.
Wenger couldn’t do it all on his own, neither could Emery or Ljundberg and nor can Arteta, if the Board and senior executives fail to perform.
Abrahimovic and his cohorts have just put a huge dent on a coaching career of a young English Coach but he is not finished, he has tomorrow. I am a GOONER by blood but what is right is right.
He seemed close to sacking but then the results improved with ESR introduction.
He saved his back. I hope he gets sacked by the end of the season, he has been collectively terrible in PL.
so you are hoping we have a bad season so he could get sacked. well as a fan am hoping our underperforming players find their form and start competing for places in the team then we end up winning and MA is not sacked
Mediocrity is the name.of the game in Arteta’s management. Look at players that he signed, they cannot improve the team. The sooner we sack Arteta, the better. Leave Kronke out of this
Let’s face it, no top team would keep their manager if he goes winless in 8+ games not to mention against some bottom level opposition(in our case) but we kept Arteta all the same coz Kreonke and the board knows they are a major part of the problem, therefore axing and replacing wasn’t really gon get the job done again… Besides it would be difficult to attract a top manager with the crop of under performers and near empty coffers the club has.
One Unai Emery was fired for going winless in 7 games despite 5 being draws… SO WHAT CLASS???
If Emery finished 5th by 1 point and made EL final with the squad he had….he’d likely be doing fairly well with this squad
Are you saying Klopp is gone if Liverpool fail to win their next two games? Wow. Big call.
We are underperforming because of our managers poor tactics, explain willan, pea this season, They are good players but the tactics are poor. Although, with some of our players …his favourites, a turd is a turd, no matter how you try to dress it up so even after giving them excessive time tonprove themselves, they are still a turd so better to flush them out
i want to remind you Dan that utd stucked with ole despite poor run of results and its paying off, compare us to utd not chelsea, chelsea is not interested in stability but quick fix which doesnt solve problems but rather compound them, whereas utd and arsenal are looking for stability.
And about being unambitious, i think, the setup and aim of both clubs are entirely different, while chelsea change managers as cloth, arsenal want a manager that will build a successful team that can compete in the nearest future.
if you think Kroeke is unambitious ill ask why? there has been a constant change to management team and backroom staff in the past 3yrs, and in this 3years we has spent nothing less than 50million per season, kroenke might not be directly involved but in recent years the family has shown more concern
With this manager who plays our best offensive player as full back when we are a goal down and we are supposed to win the match we are headed nowhere. Class or no class Artetas ability as a manager is questionable,and if Chelsea can fire Lampard then we are a joke of club to continue entertaining this mediocrity.
Hear hear Adajim. Agree with every word. In addition Kroenke himself can’t be criticised in one sentence for not investing, and in the next for sanctioning high transfer fees or salaries. – that is totally contradictory.
You cant say he doesnt know a thing about football, and then criticise him for bad buys.
The worst you can accuse him of is recruiting the wrong “football men” to advise him, but hey – we’ve all been there.
We last won the EPL 17 years ago. It is possible but unrealistic to expect us to win it in the near future without a full overhaul which will take time, and unfair to criticise as unambitious those of us that believe the key to long term success is proper foundations and patient development rather than constant knee-jerk changes
to think we are gradually reducing our bumper wage bill, i just hope we do not add lacca to the list of high earners, by this, we can gradually get a squad healthy both financially and balance in term of quality, if we could get a young CF
You’ve hit the nail on the head Guy. The problem isn’t Arsenal’s lack of spending, it’s our piss poor record of buying and selling. Witness today’s latest that we are considering ripping up Mustafi’s contract – you cant tell me wit the finish he had to last season that we couldn’t have got something for him last window.
Hopefully this new contracts guy will sort things out
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Disagree mate
We finished 8th and he did bare minimum
Our worst start to a season what’s his response – loan signing
Partey?, Pepe the year before
Adajim, Manchester United also stuck by Alex Ferguson during an underwhelming few seasons and we all know how that turned out.
However, there must be signs of playing style, progress in performance and improvement in league position and Cup runs to reinforce confidence in a manager.
At adajim
And just like the media you refuse to mention Ferguson in the background.
United have a structure. People like you I personally believe are paid trolls. Just wanting to see arsenal sink.
Nasty an unnecessary Jah son. Sniping at everything and everyone doesn’t make you a troll? It’s a game of opinions. Allow other people theirs please without personal attacks.
Is it just Arteta though?
Is it a case of just following Chelsea’s lead, that we need the sack a manager every 2nd season?
It really hasn’t got anything to do with the Chavs or any other opposition club.
It has to be because of our present situation.
Our recent history has put us in the situation we find ourselves. Not any other club.
The vast number of titles won by ELP teams are won by clubs with ‘long-term’ philosophies and measures in place to succeed at the highest level.
This isn’t the case with our club.
Halfway thru 2006, I believed that my club had placed itself at the very panicle of competitive European football. Had positioned itself for an extended period of European dominance, only to have our squad stripped of our stars, in an attempt to pay off our new Stadium as quickly as possible.
Our downfall sits squarely at the feet of a money over football philosophy and will remain the same until the words ‘self sustainable’ are erased from our rich history.
And how do we achieve this?
Get an owner whose keen on Football and not money.
Sacking our manager will not change a thing.
Sacking our owner will change everything.
@Weedz, got to agree with you on how Sacking Arteta won’t necessarily change our fortunes and the need for our Owners/Board to do more.
But MA shows some naviety or perhaps favouritism in selections..See how he continually played Willian, Pepe, Auba n Laca when we were losing games..
Then, how did he start Nketiah against Southampton in dat crunch FA Cup tie?? Brendan Rogers doesn’t have a Big Financial Back-up but he brought his players as a unit n got them winning matches. D likes of Barnes, Vardy, Madison,Justin, Ayoze Perez, Iheanacho, Fofana, Castagne, etc..
Some of us still feel Arteta can do much better esp with player/squad selections..
As for Lampard, i knew he might have issues with the price paid on transfers, we mostly talk about other teams buying big, i could remember how most arsenal fans sang the praises of chelsea recruitment. Havert have not live up to expectation, just like Pepe, we just need to understand not all players hit the ground immediatly like Fernandes of utd, some players need time to adjust. i dont care if you abuse me, its my simple opinion
Very well said Guy.Chelsea are no longer a community football team but the plaything of a Russian gangster who acquired much of his wealth through stripping the assets of the state and selling them on .Basically he is a criminal who cannot set foot in parts of his Country for fear of retribution. The decision to sack FL was not made by the Club but by Abramovich who hires and fires with impunity.How long will the new Manager last?Two years maximum.Class and ambition have nothing to do with with Chelsea, because, as a Club they are merely a vehicle by which he can exercise his ultimate power, which he flaunts on a regular basis.I admired Lampard as a Player but admiration is a word I would never associate with the owner of Chelsea FC.
Agree Grandad. My wife is Russian and I’ve been there often. Abramovic used to run a tv network there. He was bribed by the alcoholic Yeltsin to promote him on his stion 24/7. Yeltsin got elected despite being totally corrupt and never sober. RA goy paid off with huge shares in a state owned gas/oil co. When Putin got in he skipped to escape prison to the UK. We took him because we take anybody with money, and that my enem’s enemy must be my friend. Putin allows him to survive because a) he NEVER critisis Putin and a large proportion of his annual wealth is given back to charities in Russia. Unsurprisingly, saying you are a Chelsea fan when in Russia does NOT endear you to the locals!
Didn’t Abramovich make up with Putin? I swear out of all the many Russian Oligarchs of the early 90’s Abramovich is Putins favourite.
I keep reading that those Oligarchs that refused to bow down to Putin were either exiled, imprisoned or their assets were confiscated/ frozen out by Putin?
Those oligarchs that accepted to share their spoils with Putin were then given immunity, Abramovich is one of them. A few years ago didn’t Abramovich buy a £50 million Yacht for Putin as a birthday gift, or something? And wasn’t Abramovich one of the guys that funded / brought the World cup tournament to Russia?😊
Right goonster – although Im sure the yacht is not owned by Mr Putin personally, but by the Russian State… (;-))
And perhaps he likes him, “made up” is being kind. You really don’t want him to dislike you, and the important thing is that you never publicly criticise him.
I enjoyed reading this article.
To answer the question simply, Chelsea is a club that is far more ambitious than Arsenal regardless of the Lampard sacking. I would go as far as saying their ambitions are so lofty that you can’t compare it to any other club in the land, for me it is bothering on over-ambitiousness and a massive sense of entitlement which is what I really hate about modern football.
If Klopp was in Chelsea, you can’t boldly say he wouldn’t have been sacked after a drop in form in recent weeks despite all he has done, that is how “ambitious” Chelsea is.
In my opinion, Chelsea should never be used as a yardstick to judge the ambition of ANY club talk more of Arsenal. Everything about the club is toxic and negative and I can never be a fan of such.
I want my club to show more ambition but certainly not the Chelsea kind of ambition!
As usual goonerboy – good stuff. They are unique and not in a good way. I get upset when I am accused of being unamitious when I argue that building for success is both more sustainable and satisfying than buying it. An example is the pride we take in bringing our kids through. I hope and pray that this quick fix to buy success philosophy does not take hold. I’m not a Kroenke fan, but why is a “live within your means” policy so abhorrant to people? At least it means our club will still be here in 20 years time!
👍 👍 If Abramovich loses interest or has financial, political or personal problems Chelsea FC is in big trouble.
No. it is down to our management understanding how to rebuild a team. Chelsea should’ve been more patient with Lampard. It is much more difficult to integrate all those new players in a new league, especially the Premier League, and into a team like Chelsea and expect them to do wonders straight away. Chelsea should have been more patient.
when it comes to ManU, it appears that they’re showing patience with Ole simply by default…they were much quicker to bring the hammer down on their 3 previous managers, with relatively poor results following each firing, so they decided it was time to adopt a different course of action…as for Chelsea, ever since Roman’s arrival he has always been incredibly consistent when it comes to his hiring/firing practices, so anyone who comes to the club is well-aware of the consequences of an extended dip in form…now that might seem problematic for the fans of our club who have witnessed an incredibly long tenured manager, but I would like nothing more than to have an owner who doesn’t interfere in the day-to-day footballing operations, invests heavily when necessary, wants to win the biggest trophies and is very consistent, so everyone knows exactly where they stand at all times…I believe if he, instead of Kroenke, was the principal owner of Arsenal at the time the Emirates was to be built, we would have rivalled the likes of Real and Barca during the last dozen years…with the elevated status we had obtained in the decade prior to the move, players of the highest quality would have been looking to come, the owner would have invested heavily knowing that trophies would have filled the coffers well-beyond any debt that was incurred by the new stadium and, most importantly, he would have kept the likes of David Dein in the fold, which was THE BIGGEST LOSS this club faced in the last half-century…Roman would have seen the merits of having a long-tenured manager, so if Wenger had continued to perform he would have maintained his position, with the real mastermind, Dein, at his side, unless things went south…he would have never allowed Wenger to have so much control over club operations, which means that we would have never experienced such a lengthy period of stagnation…I know I’ve spent a lot of time attacking Wenger, the latter years version, on this site, but I was a very vocal supporter of him up until the time he made his deal with the devil and sold us out under the guise that this period of mediocrity would simply be a blip on the radar…our lack of decisive leadership up top, following Dein’s dismissal, led to the demise of all that this club ONCE stood for, regardless of Wenger’s presence, so any discussion of “class” is absolutely nonsensical considering their trophy winning record versus ours, since he’s arrived in town
Good stuff RVL. Yes RA researched buying Arsenal before he bought Chelsea – told incorrectly by his advisors that we weren’t for sale, so he bought Chelsea instead.
I am also torn between the almost diamectrically opposite periods of Wenger – the sublime and the ridiculous (and the bit in the middle that was both!). David Dein was a massive loss and our real “kingmaker”. An early example of the shoddy treatment that our “honourable” club are capable of.
All the ifs would not have occurred with Abrahmovic. What I am certain of is that we would not have built the stadium because that’s not his way of doing things. He wants results on the pitch and nothing else. Any other issue does not concern him.
TRVL, I agree with you totally on David Dein. Prior to his departure, Arsenal’s biggest loss was the premature death of Herbert Chapman.
So Lampard should get time on the owners money
We are a joke of a club.
Still waiting for Arteta to come good ha ha
Emery’s better than Arteta who cares to debate this fact
We are classless n have no ambitious. Classless because of our dealing of club employees including players like Ozil, Sukritus, LK etc etc and with no ambitious because no other club would have kept an inexperienced manager who got the team kicked out of two cups n has already lost 8 games in league not to mention the draws.
Jah Son – and you dare to call others paid trolls! Read your own posts and see how negative you are. Do you EVER say anything positive?
Mohsan you are not much better. I don’t know why you even watch our team as you obviously have no pride in our club.
At Guy
I beg you to go back and read Lampard words as a player when Villas Boas was sacked. He was also one of the biggest names in the dressing room.
Lampard said Villas needs more experience to handle such jobs.
So what makes him qualified.
The problem with chelsea is that the owner listens to the sexy Russian lady in charge of chelsea. She did not get on well with Lampard. Simple… he had to be sacked.
Is that true Wiggy? I know she has big influence, and that Russian woman always get what they want…lol
@guy.
Yes. Google it or check out the sun newspaper.
Remember the name; Marina Granovskaia.
Disclaimer: She is damn hot, mate…
Ive seen her often Wiggy. I agree. My wife is Russian too, and they don’t take any prisoners. If she doesn’t like him, poor Frank never stood a chance!
Off topic.
Please sell Nketiah Willock and Nelson. Then buy Diego Costa on free. Buy Madison or Bissouma then we can fight for the title.
A passionate discussion going on above with a lot of contrasting opinions that seem to make sense. Trouble is we’ve had it before and we’ll be having it again next year and the year after that. Arsenal are content to tread water. The loyalists are happy with that and find nothing wrong with the Kroenke model. We have class? Really?How do you justify the number of staff redundancies? How can such a big club accumulate do many ordinary players over the years? Such favorites as Mustafi, Elneny, Socrates, William, Pepe,Xhaka, ad infinitum were all brought in as bandage solutions. No identity no clear goals. Too much snake oil. Remember the spin? ” We are on our way to being Bayern Munich” Now that’s a better comparison. Why Chelsea? Bayern also demand success, fire managers and players at will in order to achieve success on their own terms. In contrast Arsenal are happy amateurs whose directors have thrown in the towel, but are good at convincing the saps that success is just around the corner as if every other club will simply stand still and wait for us to catch up.
I don’t think anyone is saying we have class these days – except for maybe the shirt – I still think that’s up there with the best. We have treated some players and staff really badly, so class? No. Content to tread water? No, actually the opposite. – we need a solid platform to advance, and a strategy. That’s exactly why there are MA fans – not because he is getting it right yet but he is trying to construct a team for the long term, with a system, for example a left footed centre back. ditching the dead wood, making better big name signings. Willian was never intended as a long term solution but as a free seemed a good idea that didnt pan out. Dont blame MA for that but I do for not benching him months ago.
Do I like Kroenke? Absulutely not but hes not going anywhere soon. It is what it is so we have to work with that. But laying everything bad at either his or Arteta’s door is grossly unfair. We have hired awful management who have bought the wrong players in recent history. If that makes us amateurs then 3/4 of clubs out there, who have also had to survive such times, need to change their name to Corinthians.. Every fan hopes that success is around the corner, and it is in a way, because football is cyclical. But guess what? We cant all be successful at the same time!
I sincerely hope that players don’t read these sites. Grizzling about a game or player is normal, but the sheer depth of negativity and hatred shown by our own fans to our players, management, and even to other fans is soul destroying. Its not that bad, people. Get some perspective, and strange as it may feel, maybe start encouraging us to succeed rather than dooming us to fail.
@guy, you are deeply sound on how a football club should be run, I coached a youth team too with big ego kids as players and trust me it wasn’t easy, I can only Imagine how it would look like with adults, most folks on here already hate the idea that Arteta is the manager and will never be impressed even if he wins the champions league 10 times, but someone like you and Jon fox understands how certain things in life works. It’s always nice reading from Jon fox, Sue and now I include you to that category.. have a nice one
Baba, for me it wasn’t the young players with egos, but the parents, who had never achieved anything in sport personally, but wanted to gain success vicariously through their children.
Joe S you seem to have an agenda against certain players and the manager. You keep on mentioning certain players as favorites when they barely play. Socratis was not even registered to play;how then is/was he a favorite? When was the last time Pepe started in the Epl?How often does Willian start? Elneny doesn’t start when Partey is available but with the injuries/suspensions we’ve had in midfield, who were you expecting to play other than him? Xhaka has been good since his suspension and there’s no one who can adequately replace him in the team. A partnership of Elneny/Willock was tried and failed until Xhaka came on ;Elneny/ Ceballos also never worked. The midfield requires a left footed player for balance and until A BETTER CM is recruited,he simply is the best partner for Partey in midfield. You mentioning Mustafi as a favorite hardly makes sense either. When was the last time he played for us?
There are opinions and then there are outright LIES to push biased narratives.
If Lampard was not ready just yet, Arteta who is miles away.
Frank got them in CL, he just a bit short, squad got grew in quality too.
Can’t compare a club with management and one without.
Nor can blame Kroenke to.be a businessman with no passion for nor football nor culture at all..
He tried 2 years putting money but management is disastrous amateur as coach they name manager finishing out of in lowest position in century.
It is ridiculous. They now ting Tuchel under our noze…
Bring Prof as club Manager and Viera coach is only way.
Such a legend Prof is as Sir Alex, must be in club in order to help make such a transition …
Guy, you are rational, decent clear-headed voice but football for better or worse is about passion and emotion. The get behind the shirt argument only makes sense if the fans believe that the club is being run in their best interests. As I mentioned Bayern is the standard rather than, Chelsea, Shitty,Real Madrid or Juventus. with their capacity to print money. People who love Bayern Munich run it, attend games regularly and make ruthless decisions to keep the bar high. And they also live within their means.
Similar to Dortmund and Barcelona.
I get it Joe – you should hear me cussing at plyers and MA when Im watching – you wouldn’t want to be in the same room.! And I try to avoid posting straight after games because they’d ban me. Without that passion its not my game or my team. I big part of what I say is my opinion, for others to agree with or disagree. I have supported Arsenal for 50 years and been wrong as often as I’m right. It also means that I’ve been here before with regards to our team so I know that we get there in the end. Although we all want them, those 50 years have shown me that quick fixes based purely on emotions, rarely work., and if they do then they too are only short term. An obvious scenario could be changing a manager in January when you are mid table. Not enough time for due diligence, no pre-season, few good managers available.
My belief in self sustaining football comes from my home town experience in Portsmouth. They kived above their means and it all came crashing down, which was a disaster for a football loving working class city. They are slowly rebuilding and are now mainly run by a fans trust. Football is unique. It has always had more financial tolerance shown to it than any other industry by goverments worldwide because of its importance to society. But its stabilty is an illusion. Government tolerance can run out, billionaire owners and sponsors can withdraw, and then it’s a deck of cards amongst clubs. The degree of goverment support, industry ownership, tax, running costs are also different in every country – just look at the big two in Spain. So please don’t compare us with Bayern etc, although I could respond with Dortmund!
But there are two more recent things that never concerned me before internet fan sites spread the words potentially to millions. I really worry about two areas that concern our fans in particular and society generally:
1 The pure negativity of fans. who don’t even see their glass as half empty – it’s completely empty! I very rarely hear anybody hear say anything good about Arsenal. A little balance and enthusiasm would help
2 The amount, but more importantly the severity of PERSONAL abuse that is directed at players, management or indeed other fans with different opinions. Criticise their playing ability or work rate and recommend sale or benching, but bottom line is they are human beings too, whether or not they are paid a lot.. We like to blame people, we like to single out individuals and make them the Devil Incarnate, but actually most of us are not!
2. The
Arsenal play poor football. Ocassionally the youngsters play well. We look like a lower half team and the team selection against Southampton in the FA Cup was an act of cowardice, throwing the match through poverty struck team selection. Added to his useless man-management that does not help. Arteta is not a good manager.
Morning sean
MA, FL are not the real deal, they are work in progress. We all knew that when they signed on
Chelski couldn’t hold there nerve and pulled the trigger
Roman for the good or bad of the great has instilled a winning dna in to the club and we have instilled a might do better next season
You can’t blame MA. He is learning non the job. Any top manager would steer clear of us as we dont have the funds to replace mediocrity. the winning mentality is seriously lacking but when you are suppose to lead by example and the owner doesnt seem to mind if we finish top 4 or bottom half then the manager has serious problem on his hands
We have become moaner not winners..even my self.. the pure frustration we see in front of us and we ask why can’t they see it 😒
I will do better and stop moaning less this year 😃
Onwards and upwards
Good luck. Problem is Arteta ‘talks the talk”, but does not have the experience to ‘walk the walk’. His man-management is the worst ever at Arsenal. He is not respected by many.
How do you know his man management is worst? How do you know he’s not respected? Are you there when he speaks to his players? Do you know what the players say back or do after that? How do you know he’s not walking the walk? Why didn’t you submit your application to Arsenal for appointment? So much negativity from fans who choose to be not recognize the improvement in the team. Mikel has made mistakes and will still make mistakes, he’s human and still learning afterall, so far there’s a noticeable forward movement from the club. I don’t expect a problem made by seasoned professionals for the past 14 years to be rectified by a young manager in A Year and some months.
AB you have the name of my hero! When I was young I followed Everton and Alan Ball was my favourite. I was so angry when they sold him to Arsenal that I moved with him. Of course when eventually he went to Southampton I wouldn’t dare follow – not least because I was from Portsmouth! And imagine my delight when he became Pompey manager. I met him a couple of times – a great, enthusiatic, non-stop midfielder and passer with an embarrassing shot , a pretty good manager and a smashing guy. We lost him too soon.
Btw agree with your comments too!
Guy
I saw footage of him in the 66 final
Came to the arsenal and was over the moon. Wore my favourite and lucky number 8
Also met him a few times when he played for us.. in the times of when players did speak to you
A tiger in the middle of the park and could mix it when he had too
A true leader, which we could do with now
Not sure what some fans expect
I have seen some dross manger us in the past and to tell you the truth MA is work in progress and I know he frustrates me at times but he is far from dross
I beleive if we stick with him and keep faith he will come good
I don’t expect it to be now or next season
We are far to much in a mess for that to happen
How do you know his man management is worst? How do you know he’s not respected? Are you there when he speaks to his players? Do you know what the players say back or do after that? How do you know he’s not walking the walk? Why didn’t you submit your application to Arsenal for appointment? So much negativity from fans who choose to be not recognize the improvement in the team. Mikel has made mistakes and will still make mistakes, he’s human and still learning afterall, so far there’s a noticeable forward movement from the club. I don’t expect a problem made by seasoned professionals for the past 14 years to be rectified by a young manager in A Year and some months.
The issue of sacking managers frequently can become habitual as is the case with Chelsea. What are the underlying causes? I see four reasons: impatience, irrationality, excessive desire to recoup the money spent by either the owners or the fans, the overall culture at a particular club. In the case of Lampard whoever hired him must have known that he was an inexperienced manager and needed time to build his team. Chelsea is not the club for that.
Should Arteta be treated like Lampard or Ole Gunnar Soskjaer? He should be treated rationally. Some of us argued on this platform that whoever replaced Arsene Wenger would need time to build his own team. We never expected quick results because it was not possible. Only unreasonable fellows would think otherwise. We were however very lucky that we won the FA trophy and Community shield in Arteta’s first six months. We need to give Arteta time to build a team capable of competing at the highest level and then we can judge him. There are already positive signs that this is being done.
David, “should Arteta be treated like Lampard or Ole Gunnar Soskjaer” or Unai Emery?
I put my hand up as one who argued “that whoever replaced Arsene Wenger would need time to build his own team”, particularly given the length of his managerial tenure at the Arsenal.
That is why the ability to bring in his own players was critical to the success of a “head coach”, yet denied to Unai Emery. My concern at the time that Emery was sacked, would be that it would lead to impatience for success, not building for the future and Arsenal churning through managers like Watford.
DR you put it far better than I could
Arsenal under kroenke is anything but class.
What’s classy about signing only Cech in 2015?
What’s classy about choosing Pepe over Zaha?
What’s classy about having the dearest matchday ticket prices for little to no footballing success in return.
What’s classy about signing a pensioner on a 200k/week contract?
What’s classy about redundancies?
List can definitely go on.
Even though what Chelsea have done is unnacceptable in my books. You’re expected to have such fluctuations with young squads, FFS.
To conclude, Chelsea have sick ambition, Arsenal is Walmart.
OG
I agree in part – classy we are not for exactly the reasons stated and more, but who is and who really cares these days. Having marble halls doesnt qualify us – lst time I thought that was in David Dein’s era. I think the use of the word in the title is irrelevant and sidetracks us.
As with other posts I will say that, although I don’t like Kroenke and would prefer another, football-minded, more benevolent owner, I dont think we can lay all of this at his door. It’s not that he doesnt want to succeed, rather that he is not prepared to spend money to do so. Hes not the only owner with that philosophy, but we were unlucky and je’s going nowhere for now, so lets work with that by upping our game in areas we CAN effect. BTW if he ever read your post he would take your last sentence as a compliment…