Near the end of Sunday’s first half at the Emirates, Gary Neville labelled Chelsea as being ‘naive’ and ‘too nice’.
The irony for those old enough to remember is that for so long in this fixture, that’s how Arsenal would be described.
At half-time, the visitors will feel they haven’t done too much wrong. They might even argue that at full-time they had been the better side in the second half; they certainly had the better chances.
The Gunners scored in periods that felt against the run of play. Outside of set pieces, how many great saves did Sanchez have to make?
A lot of the pressure the keeper had to deal with during open play was self-inflicted.
The home team simply waited for a corner, at which point we bullied our opponents with our physicality.
Switching Identities
I never thought this would happen …the two London neighbours switching identities.
I had grown from a teen into a man with this derby being dominated by the side in red passing the ball sideways but struggling to break down a blue wall. The majority of possessions would count for nothing when our rivals could go direct and bulk our defenders.
That’s part of why Mr Wenger’s and Jose Mourinho’s professional animosity grew personal. The Frenchman’s ethos was you could win while playing the beautiful game, meaning the Portuguese’s principles were the opposite. Such was our reputation for playing free-flowing football; I never would have believed you if you had said the day would come where the roles would be reversed.
Arsenal Now The Bullies
In their private moments I wonder what Mr Wenger and Jose think of the role reversals in the English Capital .
We are now the ruthless machine, we are now the bullies’.
At the weekend we out-Chelsea’d Chelsea.
Dan Smith
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We need to do whatever it takes to win the EPL or UCL.
I pray we make it happen this year, then the dirty dark ugly tactics will be respected and praised even by the haters.
If we win the League i would hope our Manager would release the handbrake to enable our players to fully fulfil their potential and improve the quality of football on display..I appreciate the difficulties involved in breaking down sides in low block formations,but our seemingly increased dependancy on set pieces does not fill me with contentment and appreciation when it is being achieved at the expense of the quality of our outfield play.Our identity on the pitch has changed big time but no doubt a large majority of our fans will feel the end justifies the means if we become Champions despite the fact that we are no longer playing fast, entertaining football.
If we win EPL or UCL, I doubt Arteta will change the successful tactics
I think he’ll just request for a new CF and a new LW to be more effective in the final third
Grandad, I think we’re all being sucked into this media led belief that we are dependant on set pieces, when, in fact, we’re not.
Google how many goals we have scored from open play versus set pieces.
I noticed that Slott is saying how boring the PL is due to the reliance on set pieces, yet he wasn’t complaining when they beat us at Anfield with one.
I agree about the issue of attacking football this season, but, as you also say, it’s very difficult to break down low block formations.
Yet here we are, top of the PL, while watching every team coming to the Emirates doing just that.
The only team that didn’t was manure and they are the only ones who have taken three points away with them.
Mourinho won trophies playing defensive football and was lauded as being a great manager and, back in the good old days, our own George Graham was an expert in defending.
I don’t think this is a new phenomenon, ( the low block formation) but playing out from the keeper to the back four is.
Raya does things that the likes of Swindon, Kelsey, Jennings, Wilson, Seaman, Lehman etc would never and probably couldn’t ever have done and it’s this slow build up that emphasises the way any opposition can deploy the defensive formation (now known as a low block formation) that we see from every well organised team.
@ken1945
🎯… 👍🏾
Well said Ken
I do think teams seat a lot deeper and it is not to concede rather then score but I would also say we do t help our self’s at times where we ay ticky tacky football amongst out back 4 or 5 with zub included in that
Imo i think we are much better when we have push and move the ball faster.
Its a fine line and so far we have it right as we are winning more then we are losing.
Honestly don’t care how we score as long as we score and win
Ticky tacky slick football comes later
Tomorrow is another big day
Hopefully one more step to lifting the big jugs which has eluded us for 20 plus years
Onwards and upwards
It’s quite hard to decifer – seems we’ve scored 16 from corners (not set pieces? It’s hard to confirm) in the premier League, out of 58 – that’s over 27%, which sounds quite high, especially if it’s just corners (and not including free kicks and penalties).
The “relying on set pieces” thing isn’t just a media narrative – we’ve won our drawn several games on the back of set pieces we might have otherwise lost or drawn, which likely was the case on Sunday. You can either embrace it or not, but it is what it is. I don’t particularly mind if it helps us win the title (I quite like having that weapon, just would prefer to win big games without needing to score twice from corners), but I would like to see us be more dangerous and/or ruthless in open play in the future.
I very much appreciate your wise comments Ken.What saddens me about the game today is the time being taken at set pieces and the numerous stoppages for VAR.Add that to the referee interventions at corner kicks where i have yet to see a penalty awarded for the body checking and shirt pulling which has become the norm i’m afraid.The constant melees in the box are more reminiscent of Rugby scrums and yet officials continue to turn a blind eye but are very happy to punish the slightest nudge in outfield play with unwarranted yellow cards in many cases.The stop start play today is quite frankly boring me to the extent that i have lost my enthusiasm and respect for the game which i suppose is ironic at a time when my beloved team may finally become Champions again.Maybe its an age thing Ken and i need to adopt a more positive attitude to the modern day game?
GRANDAD
I e ho your sentiments on this but I would say it is still an art to score from set pieces and it has always been part of the game.
The holding a d pulling in the box is down to the Officiating of the ref who seem weak and clueless which has taken the shine of the subject.
Subject days game us a prime example. B4 chelski first goal the. Orner b4 I would have go e as far to say I would have awarded a pen against us for dec holding but the ref looked the other way.
It seems a norm now where the ref talks to payers b4 the corner in the preempt of trying to stop it but do nothing during
We would all like an expansive freeing flowing football to be played but 9 to go and if we win ours games by a set pieces and win the league then so be it
Onwards and upwards
I also abhor the scrum like mentality we see in the penalty area Grandad, but that is prevelant at every single PL game.
Despite what the media want us to believe, this wasn’t because of our club focusing on set pieces.
I don’t know how officials can stop this, as every game could see multiple penalties or disallowed goals from such rucks.
Suffice it to say, I haven’t seen Slott decrying his team when they score from set pieces or join in said rucks.
I wonder if Pep had introduced these set piece routines, would we have been subjected to the “greatest manager ever finding yet another way to win” that all the others have to try and copy?!
Grandad
I think you are consuming the media hatred alot. I don’t mind whether we win with 1% or set pieces alone
Remember, this is the same media who were praising the Mourinho’s Chelsea of between 2004-06 (Where Terry and Carvalho scored from set pieces) as well as Ferguson’s Man United side that scored through Rio Ferdinand and Vidic
We have watched our side play beautiful football between 2005-2018 under Wenger which yielded no league or champions league title. And by the way, don’t forget that we playing better in the Champions League because those sides don’t pack the bus unlike in EPL
Don’t let the media shape your perceptions.
Who has out scored Arsenal in the EPL?
Agree Grandad. We play horrible football, that for me is only (barely) acceptable if we actually win the league or CL. But if we can not playing good football, I am not on board with this style.
The pressure of silverware is huge.
The team needs to gain something major this year so the beast can be finally unleashed
For a moment there I was worried this headline meant we’d turned into Russian-funded right wing thugs. Phew!
I think Chelsea have sort of seen the Arsenal model under Arteta and are trying to copy some of it in terms of recruitment, youthful manager, youthful squad. Chelsea are still in some rebuilding phases and with their youthfulness, they’re bound to be vulnerable to some naivety at times. With patience Chelsea, will get stronger and stronger and on the plus side for them they’re winning trophies at such a young age. They just need some stability with the coaching staff, which Arsenal always had under Wenger but were too frugal to buy players and take Arsenal to the next level and I feel Chelsea ownership has that quality about them.
I thought Chelsea’s goal on Sunday was from a corner. So what is the difference? Why didn’t Chrlsea refuse the goal? This is all just empty talk! You can score a goal in any legitimate way and there is nothing wrong with that. I don’t think we need to worry about set piece goals. How about the long throw-ins? I have seen some goals emanate from those and nobody has complained about it.
Great game 3 goals from corners? I dont think so and that is the point people are missing. Scoring from set pieces is an art form, not the beautiful game. If the game is trending towards winning corners and free kicks in and around the box over attacking exciting football, its not for the benefit of football. And many, including me, will get bored. That is a fact. If someone thinks it works, someone will try to copy and then everyone will try it and thats when it trends to the norm. Lets hope that IS NOT the case.
Reggie
Can you explain to me like a 5 year old child how scoring from corners makes the game boring? The last time I checked, even teams which have played beautiful football such as Pep’s Barcelona, Wenger’s Arsenal and Enrique’s Psg have scored from corners
So, why are we complaining on how we score? We used to play beautiful football under Wenger, yet found ourselves being beaten 8-2 by Man United and 6-0 by Chelsea. Do you want us to go back there?
Can we stop listening to this nonsense media who hate Arsenal to death please
David Rusa, the long throws are nothing new, they come and go, and have been going on since the 1960s (at least), and have never really been an issue other than for the time it takes to complete, with players getting into position. Not all teams seem to have a player capable of throwing the ball powerfully and flat enough to cause goal-scoring opportunities.
Although I thought throw-ins were supposed to be completed within eight seconds (I think).
All these pundits and opposition fans bemoaning the set-piece goals is laughable really. Arsenal have not reinvented the wheel here. Corners, free-kicks, and throw-ins have always been a part of football.
And regards the amount of corners we get, should actually be seen as a compliment. Because correct me if I’m wrong, but to get so many corners would suggest to me that we spend a lot of time in the attacking third of the pitch to get these corners in the first place.
I do agree with Grandad, regards the wrestling that goes on though at set-pieces. At times it borders on assault or WWF. And to compound this, you see the most soft fails given in other parts of the pitch.
But again back to these set-pieces, I honestly believe that the pundits and opposition supporters are so rattled at the thought of Arsenal winning a trophy or dare I say trophy’s, they try to make themselves feel better by belittling Arsenals potential achievements this season.
I’ve even heard them saying that this is the worst season the Premier League has seen regards the quality. Yet another stick to try and beat Arsenal with.
All designed to make themselves feel better, well I don’t know about you my fellow posters, but it makes me feel better. The fact it rattles them so much is nice to see, and long may it continue. Because the longer it does, would mean the our beloved Arsenal are still doing well.
COME ON YOU GUNNERS. 😂👍
I agree Derek but are we playing beautiful football to back it up or are we playing dour slow football that is getting more and more reliant on set pieces. I like watching football and i like watching goals from ser pieces but most of all i like watching real gootball, that gets you up off your seats. Otherwise you get bored. There is a balance and we have to be careful which way it tips.
Reggie,
Don’t get me wrong, I’m with you regards the quality of our play. While set-piece’s have there place in the game, we shouldn’t become to reliant on them. Although that said, with the amount of set-pieces we get, it’s not really surprising that we score our fair share of goals in this manner.
But I to want to see better quality in our game. And having grown up watching the Arsene Wenger teams, we we’re spoilt to a large degree, weren’t we.
Whether Arteta is capable of producing such football remains to be seen. But the brand of football they played in the 2022/2023 season, was pretty good to watch. So some more of that would be nice. And just to add, if we fail to win said trophy’s, I would prefer failing having had ago, rather than playing to safe.
If we fail, I want to fail trying rather than wondering. 👍
My 2pence worth is that exciting games across the premier league are few and far between these days. It’s not just Arsenal at all.
Somewhat agree. But from our point of view, its a massive shift. I watched Arsenal regularly under GG and whatever was said, it wasn’t boring football. It was winning football. And funnily enough, I enjoyed it. The Only boring bit was the back four playing the opposition offside all the time and knowing 1-0 (which contrary to legend wasn’t always the case) would be enough. And most of the time it was.
Reggie,
I agree regards the George Graham era. The team were a better footballing side than they got credit for.
They had plenty of flair also. Rocastle, Limpar, Merson, Campbell, Wright, Thomas, Davis and I’ll even throw Marwood in there as well.
But mud sticks as the saying goes. 🤷♂️
Reggie, if the opposition players were offside then that was good defending by our defence. I loved.
Herr Drier,
Not a better sight in football than seeing Tony Adams arms go up in the air signifying an offside. 😂
I heard Lee Dixon once say one of the reasons the defense was so good and was more often than not in the right position on the pitch, is that the back four would use the advertising boards as their guide as to where they were on the pitch.
Who says that adds are boring. 😂👍
GG had them on a rope in training, literally 😂
Very true Reggie
So did I HD, it was a bit tongue in cheek, when I brought it up.
👍
Long gone are the days of “Arsenal don’t like it up ’em” now that we’re the team applying that pressure😱.
Also worth mentioning is that Jover’s getting bonuses for each dead-ball goal scored.
Maybe what need to be considered is you’re only allowed two players inside the 6 yard box at corners. Maybe that would help.
Or would it just move the melee to the penalty area. 🤦♂️
Well Derek why not extend your suggestion and introduce a new rule whereby no opposition players are allowed in the six yard box at corners until the ball is kicked.Surely that would go some way to stopping the current free for all and at least protect the Goalkeeper who is usually blatantly blocked by opposition players.
Grandad,
I can’t really have any arguments to you’re suggestion. Something needs to be done, how these players get away with the blatant manhandling of each other, only the officials can answer that.
No doubt their apologist of an employer, a certain Mr Howard Webb will doubtless try to make excuses as to why this is allowed to happen. 🤷♂️
Thats changing the game completely from the last 140 years, I do not see that happening. Plus if a goal is scored, it will take VAR 10 minutes to decide if the player was in the box, a millionth of a second before the kick was taken🤣
they can’t do that though
pushing and pulling has been going on for years
law makers can’t only care now because they don’t like teams are doing too well from them .
If let’s say there had been the half amount of goals scored from set pieces would it then be okay ?
Why even introduce new rules when we have refs and VAR to enforce the existing ones? It would affect our goal output, of course.
I watch other PL teams and the way we play is not just about Arsenal. For instance, PL teams have scored more corners already this season than the entirety of last season. Football trends just like fashion trends,come and go in cycles.
You look around the league and no team,bar maybe Bournemouth, is playing exciting football. City’s win over Leeds was pretty much like Arsenal’s over Chelsea- scrappy for 90 minutes.
We just happen to be the best at this current trend- which is credit to the manager for “foreseeing” where the league was headed earlier than the rest.
The rest of the league has caught on though,and we’ll probably see a new trend/style next season. My prediction is that we’ll see a return of two strikers upfront. We’ve already seen some PL teams doing this-like Havertz/Gyokeres.
Another interesting stat is that by GW 28, we’ve only had six games won by a 4+ goal margin- City and Arsenal account for 4 of these 6 results,with 2 apiece. The number is usually in the teens at this point in the season,sometimes 20’s.
Perharps the league has become too competitive to score from open play,leading to an over-reliance on set plays. It’s not just Arsenal- this is what the league has become.
I’ve just read that, to date, there have been 186 corners given in the PL.
Why is it that only the sixteen Arsenal have scored from, are causing all this furore?
Could it be that we have mastered the technique of taking them?
Likewise with the throw ins when the club was belittled by some of its own fans for appointing a “specialist coach” to improve our stats.
If we start getting the same kind of positive results from throw ins as we have with set pieces, will the English media be up in arms again, while forgetting the likes of Stoke etc who were praised for doing just that under their rugby coach Pullis?
IF they were praised, it wasn’t for the beauty but for the disruption of the teams who played the beautiful game and couldn’t cope with them. It was classed as hump em, lump em bump em football. And it was a way to get the best out of a ramshakle squad/team. And apart from the mighty Wimbledon (god bless them) never brought success, just pandemonium. Its a weapon, not a constitution.
Oh no Reggie they were praised – praised for showing up the “southern softies” who didn’t like it “up em”.
I remember quite clearly the soft underbelly quotes and, as Jax points out, now we’re giving as good as we get (and sometimes even more) the same northern numpties are complaining about our “dark arts tactics!!”
Ha ha, I see your point but it was never praised much. It was more a sideshow.
Reggie the expert in all. Only your opinion makes sense
Munster
You have noticed that too 😂😂😂😂😂
In a nut shell, the tactical genius is prioritizing result over style of play .