Opinion – Mikel Arteta honeymoon period will end if Arsenal lose to Chelsea

Mikel Arteta has enjoyed his honeymoon period but it cannot last forever

Mikel Arteta has a lot of good faith in the bank from the Arsenal fans but that will start to deplete if results are not converted into wins soon.

Arteta has been in charge now for five Premier League games and only a single win has been registered in that period and by any standards that is not good enough. There is some mitigation of course and that is why there has been very little criticism aimed at the Spaniard.

However, there comes a point where Arteta has to be held to account in the same manner that his predecessors have been and I believe that time is now.

Drawing at home to Sheffield United is simply unacceptable. The Blades are having a great season and team after team have come unstuck against them but come on, they are a promoted team with very mediocre players and regardless of how they have done against other teams, Arsenal should be beating them at the Emirates.

It is ok saying there has been improvement but if that improvement is not to a certain level then questions must be asked why.

Arsenal did well against Man Utd but the truth is that they are no better than Arsenal these days, it was not as impressive a win as some have made out, not in my opinion anyway.

The performances under Arteta have not been as good as what one would have hoped I have to say. Being thoroughly outplayed at home in the first half against a championship team (Leeds United) is poor by anyoneโ€™s standards, being the second-best team on the pitch against a promoted team at home is just as bad.

Draws against free-falling Bournemouth and Crystal Palace were far from convincing, this cannot carry on without there being an adverse reaction from the fans and rightfully so.

I want Arteta to succeed but I am now of the opinion that results need to get better and if they do not then the manager must be held to account.

57 Comments

  1. Eddie says:

    โ€œHowever, there comes a point where Arteta has to be held to account in the same manner that his predecessors have been and I believe that time is now.โ€

    Thank you for your observations and your beliefs, but I ain’t jumping on that ship yet if y’all gave Emery a free year before questioning his time with us.
    Y’all won’t side and protect one for 14 months and start judging another one just after two months. No Thank you, every sane fan knew this season was a write off already.
    As long as the team has changed, we all see what he’s trying to do, just like Klopp’s first season at Liverpool. As long as we see what he’s trying to do and we see that the boys are behind him, well then I ain’t joining no party or bus who’ll be judging him after two months

    1. NY_Gunner says:

      @Eddie
      Thank you… ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿฟ

      1. stevo says:

        Emery’s first 12 months yielded EL final and he missed 3rd place by just 2 points.
        A great first 12 months from a man with no English or PL experience.
        This season he benched Ozil and after 8 games Arsenal were 3rd a point behind City.
        Then the fans demanded Ozil play and the team slipped to 6th where upon Emery was sacked.
        Arteta has been in the PL 12 years and speaks English and yet the results
        have been no better than Emery’s.
        Many fans are saying well it’s not Arteta’s fault its just that we have a poor squad.
        Emery got to the EL final and 2 points off third in the league with this “poor” squad
        Now we are in 10th and that with with several new additions.

        1. Eddie says:

          Oh look… It’s Agu Emen with a new identity

          1. Sue says:

            ๐Ÿ˜œ Busted!! ๐Ÿ‘

          2. Gily says:

            Haha very much the same music.
            Like they say,”by their fruit you will know them.”

        2. SueP says:

          Are you sure youโ€™re not Agu Emen in disguise?

    2. jon fox says:

      Eddie, Judging by a “bus”? Care to explain? I just want to know what you mean! Agreed with the rest of your post.

      1. Eddie says:

        Jon that was meant to be figurative..
        Instead of using I won’t on that ship (Sure you know what it means to jump ship).
        I switched ship with Bus

        1. jon fox says:

          Eddie, Thanks! MAKES SOME SORT OF SENSE NOW, I SUPPOSE! I genuinely had not clue what a bus had to do with Arsenal and being somewhat of a pedant who likes to use correct language, I struggle to understand many of the off beat descriptions on here. Especially Sues emojis, at times . Never use the silly things myself. That is because I am an old git, not young, not “down with the kids” and really my irritating type should have been put down centuries ago! As I once said to Shakespeare, when we were at school together! Wonder what happened to him!

          1. Sue says:

            ๐ŸฆŠ – just for you, Jon! ๐Ÿ‘

  2. Kev82 says:

    Nigel Pearson came into Watford and had an immediate effect with a squad worse than ours so Arteta needs his team to start winning! 6 wins all season is an embarrassment to a club like Arsenal I can’t even bring myself to look at the league table ๐Ÿฅด

    1. NY_Gunner says:

      @Kev82
      Yeah, he did. But for how long?

      1. Kev82 says:

        @NY_Gunner hopefully not too long or they’ll leapfrog us lol ๐Ÿ˜‚

    2. Sue says:

      Hellooo Kevin! How ya doing? Yes and who’d have thought it?!! I didn’t, for sure!! It must be down to the fact he’s put ketchup back on the menu!

      None of this honeymoon over nonsense for me, yes 6 wins isn’t good, but he’s only come in… I’ve seen a difference in how we’re playing. Yes the results haven’t gone our way, but we’ve had no luck either – we know who’s had it all! – I want to see him bring his own players in – assuming the board back him of course – and give him at least a season before I jump on the bandwagon. I’m not saying you’re on it, btw ๐Ÿ˜€
      That huge gap in the table between 1st and 2nd place is just horrible!!

      1. Kev82 says:

        I’m very well thanks Sue and how are you ? I trust you had a nice birthday? ๐Ÿ˜€ You might be onto something there Sue ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฃ haha no I’m not on the bandwagon I like Mr Arteta he’s trying but Arsenal are trying my patience with these draws 11 this season? Oh don’t remind me Sue that Liverpool team are doing my head in just lose already ๐Ÿ˜‚

        1. Sue says:

          All good, Kev.. yes I did, thank you ๐Ÿ‘
          Hopefully on Thursday they will… and I’ll be singing the Nuno chant everywhere I go for the next year!!
          Yes 11 draws is a bummer, but just have to look forward now and try and pick up as many points as poss. This season (PL) has been written off for ages, just have to go for EL and heck, even the FA cup ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ˜œ
          We can still have something to cheer come the end of the season, Kev ๐Ÿ™

          1. Kev82 says:

            Good glad to hear it Sue I was meaning to come on but our form is that c**p I just wasn’t bothered to chat Arsenal ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ tbh I’m not really bothered about FA cup id rather we go full steam ahead for Europa League the pot of gold awaits it awaited last season too but Giroud stole it ๐Ÿ˜‚ haha yes we will if not Nuno then pep and if not pep then Arteta of course we’ll stop them ๐Ÿ˜‚ we couldn’t stop Bromley at the minute ๐Ÿคฃ

          2. Kev82 says:

            Sue are you on Arseblog ? Lovely name ๐Ÿ˜† I could swear I read a comment from a Sue about Kolasinac and thighs and if it’s not you I’d be amazed ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

          3. Sue says:

            That’s alright, Kev.. thought you might’ve become a hermit ๐Ÿ˜‚ I’d thought about it!
            Occasionally I’ll write a comment on there, obviously depending what the subject is… Kolasinac + thighs = perfect ๐Ÿ˜‰ haha!!

          4. Kev82 says:

            Hahaha who would blame me ? Liverpool charging to the title undefeated! Dennis Suarez wasn’t even an Arsenal player when they last lost a game and now still undefeated and Suarez has moved on to pastures new and 2 managers have come and gone ๐Ÿ˜‚ ah so that was you unless there’s another Sue who’s in awe of Kolasinac and Thighs ๐Ÿ˜ฎ๐Ÿ˜‚ so an easy standard away win tonight then Sue ? ๐Ÿ˜‰

          5. Sue says:

            Hmmm… ๐Ÿ™ˆ I don’t know, Kev… a draw?! ๐Ÿ˜‚

          6. Kev82 says:

            That’s called playing it safe Sue ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ so did you go to the game on Saturday Sue ? Bet you went home in a nice mood ๐Ÿ˜‚

          7. Sue says:

            Haha I know!! Yes I did.. it wasn’t too bad, apart from being surrounded by drunken men all day ๐Ÿ™„ I expected a draw so not as bad as some moody journeys home ๐Ÿ˜‚ I’ve lowered my expectations for this season, Kev!

          8. Kev82 says:

            Well one of them wasn’t me I refrain from alcohol use ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ almost low enough to expect nothing eh Sue lol I thought at least we would do some business this window but it’s looking unlikely ๐Ÿฅด

  3. NY_Gunner says:

    You’re being a bit harsh and unfair. Sheffield U is still Premier League team of professional well drilled players, coached by a very good manager. Wilder has had them firing on all cylinders for at least 3 seasons, and compared to Artetas 4/5 matches of a team still in transition. Every team that comes up against us has and will take advantage of that disadvantage. It’s gonna take more than a few matches for us to find our footing and steady the ship.

    1. Sue says:

      Very well drilled! They came out to warm up ages before we did on Saturday… same at half time too, didn’t just stand there, they were all warming up and exercising!
      He has done a fantastic job with them.

  4. salmon goliath says:

    Let the coach get a better creative midfielder like Neves. Ozil is his own firing that he is looking for.

  5. gotanidea says:

    Artetaโ€™s honeymoon has ended when Arsenal lost against Sheffield United. But we shouldnโ€™t blame him, because he inherited some underperforming senior players

    Some of them have shown their maximum abilities under Wenger/ Emery/ Ljungberg and they simply canโ€™t be expected to improve further

    Wait until Arteta get his own players next season, if we are not relegated by then

    1. ozziegunner says:

      Exactly right, gotanidea; the common denominator is the players. Arteta is not “Merlin the Magician” and can’t make “a silk purse out of a sow’s ear”. He will face the same issues Emery faced if the owner and Board do not support him in the transfer market to bring in the players he wants to suit his style and system.
      The fact that this is even being discussed now shows how fickle Arsenal fans continue continue to blame the head coach, rather than the owner and Board for their failures in scouting and recruitment.
      My concern is that the cynical owner believes it is less costly to churn through head coaches, rather than outlaying the required funds to address the deficiencies in the player quality and depth in the Arsenal squad.

    2. Sylva Olabanji says:

      Arteta can’t perform any magic on some underperforming players. He tries to get them play with lots of energy, but it’s obvious some can’t last 90 minutes. We need a new season with some players coming in to evaluate Arteta properly.

  6. Elvis says:

    It’s already difficult enough inheriting a scrappy team almost half way through the season, now fans are piling unnecessary pressure on the coach. Fans need to be realistic, this is the real world, not a fairy tale. The best thing for Arsenal is to concentrate on winning Europa league to get Champions league qualification.

    1. Sue says:

      Thank you very much ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ (sorry couldn’t resist, after seeing your name!)

      All joking aside, ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

  7. Shakir says:

    The performances have improved.
    We could have won atleast 4 of those 5 games if not for poor sssstupid naive refereeing

    1. Gily says:

      A good point most fans refuse to put into consideration when judging the players and the coach. The team has improved greatly from the boring 90minutes we used to see.
      I’ll be happy if we lose gallantly rather than woefully.

  8. SAGooner says:

    How much better can we expect the team to perform with the non-existent midfield we have?
    Xhaka
    Guendouzi
    ร–zil
    Willock

    Which temm in the top 8 would buy any one of those?
    And then Laca has gone off the boil and it doesn’t seem as if he ever is going to boil again. This is not Mikel’s fault. He inherited this crap and is doing the best he can with what he has. The improvement that there hรกs been shows what he could do with a properly balanced side. Give him a chance, even if we lose to Chelski.

  9. Bobby says:

    I read your comments with interest. I think they are negative and unimaginative. Did we want Arteta to begin like OSG? Victories papering over cracks. He has much to come to terms with. A complete breakdown in style was bestowed upon us by Emery with his negative tactics and poor man management. He throttled the creativity and courage from the team. How else could one explain a complete suffocation in the run in last season. Mikel has come in mid season and has a shambles to sort out. The players lack courage, conviction and fitness. This will take time and Arteta deserves a full preseason and summer window to implement his ideas. There is a marked difference and results will come. Whilst I agree we should be winning games against lesser opposition who decides we arenโ€™t inferior currently? Just because we are Arsenal we arenโ€™t โ€˜Thee Arsenalโ€™ yet! If we donโ€™t win at Chelsea tonight I would prefer an all out assault on the Europa League to get CL for next season and let the youngsters gain experience in the PL. May be the best way forward this season. A victory tonight could change the mood however! COYG!

  10. Where'sMyTop4TrophyGone? says:

    Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to judge him with the injury devastation that’s full-on at Arsenal?

  11. stevo says:

    I get the feeling most fans are giving Arteta a pass till the summer.
    Then he is expected to add quality and start producing results next season.
    To be fair Arsenal has only played 5 pl games under Arteta and none have been easy.
    Very few Arsenal fans expect us to beat Chelsea.
    Now with FA Cup, PL and EL games coming thick and fast it’s going to be
    a rugged 4 months for Arteta, the players and the fans.
    The league is so tough wins are hard to come by. Draws are the new wins.
    Right now 6th in the league and making the semi final in the EL would be a pass mark.
    Anything else would be a bonus

    1. SueP says:

      Stevo,
      You have changed your tune a bit from your earlier post on this topic where you were comparing Emery with Arteta. Yes, Emery was close to 4th spot and did lose the Europa League final but did you not notice how bad they had become that Spring? I can’t think that Ozil starting or not made an iota of difference: Emery managed a toxic team in a toxic atmosphere which as the manager/coach he was ultimately responsible for.

      Relating to the feelings of support of the fans for Arteta, any self respecting Arsenal fan would want to be giving him a chance. He has only been in the job a month and has made a positive impact already. Whilst the result against Bournemouth could be classed as disappointing, he lost to Chelsea who are currently 4th and beat ManU who are 5th. Not bad in a limited amount of time.

      I am not confident for a win tonight but that does not alter my positive feeling about improvements that have been made. He has a very difficult job with an owner who shows zero interest in what owning a premier league team means to its fanbase and a management group above him who are not football men apart from Edu. I hope we all give Arteta some wiggle room that extends beyond the end of the month!

      Yes you are right, 6th would be an achievement.

  12. OZGooner says:

    I have to ask what are people’s expectations of this squad? I look at the squad….. Forwards are top 4 at there best, midfield mid table at best, and defence well bottom 6????. I am not sure what miracles you are expecting of Arteta. From what I have seen he has this squad working harder, which in the short term is all you can ask.

  13. jon fox says:

    I should not need to point out the bl….ng obvious but games are won or lost by players and not managers! Even the greatest managers can do only a very limited amount to prevent sub par players, many on long contracts, from harming our team. We have too many who still, EVEN UNDER THE ADMIRABLE MA, do not work anywhere near hard enough. We also have almost an entire defence of duffers and, though it should not need saying, since it is OBVIOUS, some of us have been saying for ages that not even God Almighty can make dross like Mustafi, Sokratis and Luiz into real defenders. The REAL AND ONGOING PROBLEM we have is Kroenke. Simple as that. We need a proper owner who cares for the club, otherwise we will never again reach the heights we all wish. Reality.

  14. Hayden Seaton says:

    Part of the problem at arsenal is the toxic environment that surrounds it such as news articles like this. Every arsenal fan was not expecting Arteta to come in and win games straight away. It’s a project and we need to given him time. If we got Ancelotti and these results were happening then you can ask questions. IMO if we finish 10th that’s okay, I understand this season is a right off. As long as there are improvements towards the end of the season that give encouraging signs for next season then I for one am happy. I’m sure that the majority of arsenal fans feel the same way.

  15. jon fox says:

    Admin Martin, all Gooners who can reason things through, surely know full well that this article of yours is just another in a long line of fillers. Not only does virtually no one on here accept your point of view( the strange Emery loving Stevo being the sole exception, but I do not believe thateven YOU believe what you wrote. I am in effect calling your bluff. So care to come on here right now, in this thread, and state unequivically that you believe, hand on heart, what you wrote. Unless and until you do that I will simply not believe it is YOUR OWN HONEST VIEW. And I will not be alone, I suspect. AFTER ALL MARTIN, WE ALL KNOW YOUR CONSTANT NEED TO PEN ARTICES, EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO NEWS AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. I suggest THAT is the real reason you wrote as you did!

    1. Eddie says:

      Stevo is Agu Eman… your favorite fan๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

    2. Admin Martin says:

      Oh poor Jon, forced to read yet another article against his will. Now, you have made constant false allegations against this site and other users and refuse to apologise, tells me a lot. I will not accept that for much longer. In answer to your question, use the search function, check my articles on when Arteta was appointed. He is unfit for the job, I said so from day one, I have been consistent. Try it, then your comments may carry some weight.

      1. jon fox says:

        Admin MARTIN, Well now we know and thanks for having the decency to come back with an honest answer. I am glad to hear, though surprised too, that you, almost alone are not a fan of Arteta. I cannot think of a single manager in the world right now, from those few really talented men who would take on this poison chalice under Kroenke, who I would prefer to Arteta. As someone who honestly thinks I am among the very most REALISTIC Gooners on here, I know that MA can only achieve so much under miser Kroenke. Not God Almighty can make our defence good enough, though Arteta HAS made them tighter by having the intelligence and nous that Emery lacked, by making the whole team more compact and harder to beat. But that is still a long way from being challengers at the very top or even top four.

        Why not do a series of articles about Kroenke, how he came to own us(which we oldies well know but which the kids may well not know) and ask for fans opinions on THAT, which is by far the greatest ongoing problem our club has. Matters of such and such a player coming or going are mere flea bites, by comparison to the ongoing poison chalice that is KROENKE. You would do well not to forget the elephant in the room, in KROENKE, RATHER THAN CONSTANTLY POST DAFT RUMOURS THAT ANOUNT TO NOTHING AND WHICH WE ALL KNOW ARE NOT HAPPENING. You have cried wolf with rumours far too often to be believed. Just my honest take and if you want half truths or smarmy oily replies, then try someone like Gazidis or his repulsive type. I deal only in honesty, of course as I truly see it. A fansite without true honesty and true feedback too, is not worthy and at least you have now had the guts to say your REAL thoughts on Arteta, strange though they will appear to many, myself included. But all well thought though and honestly believed dopinions are valid, so I I owe you an apology for my doubts. All I personally ever seek is truth and will always accept the truth, as people honestly perceive it, whether or not I agree with them. It would be a dull world if we all agreed!

        1. Admin Martin says:

          Fair response Jon. There will be a time for Kroenke articles be assured of that, it is a question of timing. As for all the rumours and so forth I will say this Jon. I am an employee and I work under the criteria I am given. Pat has made it clear in previous responses that Just Arsenal is evolving and expanding and that there will be more articles than there are now and that Just Arsenal will report on Arsenal news, ALL Arsenal news. However, changes are coming very soon and there will be a form of separation of opinions and rumours. We do listen all the time and respond as best we can to the concerns even if you or other sites users do not see it openly. We value all our site visitors, especially the long term ones but there is a model in place and we are determined to stick to that model but will work as best we can to make sure all concerns are addressed. Hope that clarifies the situation to some degree and maybe the constant sniping at the rumours will stop now. They will continue to be published and the number of articles will constantly rise but we will be trying to do it in such a way that those that do not want the rumours do not have to see them. Be patient is my advice, not just to you but to any site visitor that has concerns.

          1. jon fox says:

            Well Martin, what a gratifying and full response and I thank you for the welcome update to this site. We wait with baited breath then! Shows that my “sniping ” bore fruit too! I would prefer to call it to the point customer feedback, rather than “sniping” though.

  16. Sean Williams says:

    Could any manager turn our squad into a top team right now? I don’t think so. We used to have a few magical players, but now we have none. We need to to see if the Kroenke’s will back Arteta with funds. We need a couple of players now and then in the summer Arteta needs a chance to choose his players. To judge him now, with this group of players does not make sense. You can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.

  17. James says:

    5 games in and Martin is already laying ground for MA bashing articles! FIVE games? Get serious man. FYI there are no honeymoons for great/tactically astute managers, they start from the ground up. Pep never had this ‘honeymoon’ thing, he had more draws and loses but everyone kept the faith ’cause they could see what he was trying to implement.

    1. Admin Martin says:

      So bottom side Watford have employed the greatest living manager in history. Really? I suggest you get serious and stop accepting medicority

      1. jon fox says:

        Matter of acute personal interest Martin, what exactly would you have honestly expected from Arteta in those few games that he has not done, IN YOUR OPINION? AND BEARING IN MIND HIS LACK OF PLAYER OPTIONS AND HUGE INJURY LIST! Five wins perhaps? I would really like to know, so care to put more flesh on the bones of WHY you do not rate Arteta and what he lacks? Do please tell us, as many will be interested I am sure and it would give us a serious topic to discuss; better than unfounded transfer rumours anyway.

        As Admin, your personal opinions, esp when out of kilter with mainstram Gooner views, are bound to carry more weight than any of ours, I suggest, though that should not be the case -and nothing personal meant by that – but “titles( ADMIN)” do carry weight.

        As for Nigel Pearson, his successful change of team direction has been a clear and definite success, albeit it is early days, so while he may not be “the greatest living manager in history” neither should he be scorned!

        1. Admin Martin says:

          Trust me I am not being scornful of Nigel Pearson who I personally knew a few years back and who in my opinion laid the foundation for Leicesters title when he got them on a winning run before he got fired. As for Arteta I did cover why I did not think he should be Arsenal manager when he was employed and I said in that article that I would not criticise him and would support him etc and that is what I have done. My article today is about his honeymoon period, I said it will be over IF we lose tonight and I think that is a fair comment. I did not say he should be sacked or replaced or anything like that. The whole purpose of the article was simply to say, his honeymoon period will be over with a loss and that he should be held accountable. I see nothing wrong with that opinion and feel it is balanced and fair. As for why I feel his honeymoon period should be over I covered that as well, one win in five EPL games is a poor return, especially in comparison to other newly appointed managers. Pearson being a classic example. There has to be a point where Arteta is questioned if results do not turn and it is my opinion that a loss tonight is that time. Managing a huge elite club like Arsenal leaves no prisoners and no manager of a top top club can be given an extended grace period to get things right, not at this level. If you want that then maybe he should have done what Gerard or Lampard did and manage teams not at the highest level first. Arsenal is a massive job, one that almost every manager would crave, Arteta got it with zero experience of managing on his own, fine, but he and the fans have to accept that when you get that opportunity at the very highest level that the expectations are much much higher and patience a lot thinner on the ground. But as I stated, I have not said anything really other than his honeymoon period will be over with a loss. Not sure why that is so controversial or seen as an attack.

          1. jon fox says:

            A welcome statement of your own personal views. I doubt many will see it as you do but fair play for stating them. Honesty and openness is all I ever ask and when we get it, as in this reply, I am only too happy to say thanks. Personally, I think he needs to have the chance to get almost all his own players in before serious judgement is made on him. I doubt many Gooners, and certainly not me, would think even Klopp or Pep would have done any better thus far, with our substandard squad and all those injuries (the latest being Nelsons hamstring done in training). Bigger and deeper squads could carry our injury list but not our moderate squad full of woeful “defenders”. Hardly the fault of MA, a fair minded person might well think. Eh, MARTIN?

  18. Reggie says:

    Except for a bit of stitching and cleaning, i have seen nothing yet that is a watershed moment for me to think we have our new masiah. If results dont start coming and points on the board, it will mean that Arteta has managed nothing so far. We haven’t had a new manager bounce and we haven’t been much better at showing real improvement. Yes we look more organized but in reality we look the same team but in different clothes. Ozil has flattered to deceive as usual, xhaka has been his usual self but with more panache, Auba has been holding the team together. I appreciate thing will take time but the truth is, time for us is slipping away. We need real results and points.

  19. Sean Williams says:

    It confuses me to judge Mikel Arteta at this time. I was not one of those who would have chosen him……..but I do like his spirit and attitude and he has not been given a chance yet. There is no human being who could turn our squad, as it is now, right now, into a good side. Not possible. If the absentee Kroenke’s do not invest constant funds into the Arsenal squad how will it become like Liverpool’s or Man City’s squad. We never replaced Cazorla, Ramsey, Wilshire, Sanchez, Chamberlain, or even Walcott. We have a defence that is not even Championship quality. Even Gandalf could not waive his wand over our squad. Give Arteta a chance to weave his vision…..if the Kroenke’s will fund him. Our priority should be to get rid of the Kroenke’s and our poor management structure rather than Arteta. We are in the Kroenke’s dark shadow. They make Usmanov look like a saint.

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