So, when I get up in the morning (ridiculously early I may add), the first thing I do is grab a cup of coffee, do my imaginary exercises, and sit down to read the hundreds of comments that came in after I closed my PC yesterday.
Normally their are a few disputes to be policed, but today was a good day and everyone seemed reasonably polite to each other for a change!
But one comment caught my eye, from Dan Kit, which read: “Arteta’s win rate at this moment in time reads 52% which is what Im interested in, and if im not mistaken is pretty poor. I stand by my opinion that he is the worst manager to rock up at our club since 1988, stats back me up.
So I thought that this statement needed to be fact-checked in the interests of fairness, so I decided to do some research.
So i started at Soccerbase, and checked Arteta’s record to date, and here it is…
TEAM …..FROM ……….TO…. GAMES WON DRAWN LOST
Arsenal 23 Dec, 2019 Present 115…. 61… 22…… 32
So, Dan was not far off as that works out to 53% Win rate and (if my maths is correct) a 59.33% points haul.
So, now on to Arsenal’s other managers. Dan specified 1988, so I am starting with George Graham who was in charge from 1986-1995. Here is his record (The rest of the figures are taken from earlier research done by the excellent Bergkampesque).
George Graham 1996-1995
GP, 364 W, 167 D, 108 L, 89
Win % 45.88% Pts % 55.77%
Bruce Rioch 1995 – 1996
GP, 46 W, 22 D, 13 L, 11
Win % 47.83% Pts % 57.25%
Arsène Wenger 1996 – 2018
GP, 828 W, 476 D, 200 L, 152
Win % 57.49% Pts % 65.54%
Unai Emery 2018 – 2019
GP51, W25, D13, L13
Win % 49.0, Pts% 57.5
So, I am afraid that the facts do not back up Dan’s assertion that 53% is the worst win-rate recorded by any Arsenal manager since 1988. In fact the only coach with a better win rate was, unsurprisingly, our greatest manager of all time….
We also have to accept that Arteta may still be with us for many years to come, so it remains to be seen as to whether he can improve those figures in the future…
The points % is the important stat here, more than the win %
To be fair you should be taking into account the backing a manager has received. Emery with very little backing and/or support while losing the dressing room got 57.5% which is very close to MA 59.3% points haul with a big backing and far superior job security.
Agree with you on this..
To be fair here is your comment from few articles before “So let me get this straight….whenever something good happens it’s because of Arteta but the moment something bad happens it’s not Arteta, it’s other factors like attitudes?
Can’t have it both ways you hypocrites”
So I guess it’s other factors this time and you are not a hypocrite?
What you have said makes no sense??? I don’t understand your point, how am I a hypocrite?
MA has a good points % haul but has also received good support whereas Emery did not receive the same support but has a similar points %.
“MA has a good points % haul but has also received good support whereas Emery did not receive the same support but has a similar points %.”
This are the other factors. Do you understand now or do I have to draw it to you?
Yes please draw it, hopefully you haven’t finished all of your crayons 🙂
Now you made me finish my last crayons and I will have to steal some in my kindergarden groop. I hope that you are happy now😔
Just het HB ✏️. Done.
I sometimes don’t understand why some fans say Emery wasn’t backed. They should go back and check the number of players Emery signed.
They are also talking about Emery not getting enough time. They have forgotten that Emery also has a lot of experience than MA.
Emery was backed..its under him we got the most expensive arsenal player yet
Good catch. Some of these guys are so agenda driven that they cannot keep a consistent line of argument. Great article BTW
So if Emery carried on the way he was going then his percentages would have dropped I’d have thought . You said it, he lost the dressing room. No point backing him any further then. Nice enough man but with his level experience it’s fair to say he should have done better. That team conspired to fall out of a virtually nailed on top4 and didn’t turn up in Baku. Season 2 brought about more dressing room mayhem which has taken a very long time to erase
Yes very possible it could have dropped, it also could have increased. If hi % was so high maybe he should’ve been backed?
He wasn’t backed properly when he had the dressing room Sue, let’s be honest shall we? We all know he didn’t get the players he wanted.
My point is not against MA as he has not done too badly, it’s against the lack of consistency in judgement.
People forget most of his wins come from the Europa league
A lot of his wins from the Europa League,yes,and aside Tottenham I don’t think he has been able to record victory against the top sides in the League and I don’t see that changing any time soon
.We have three outstanding games and they are against Chelsea, Tottenham and Liverpool..to be fair,we can’t get 4 points from those games and we could also end up not picking a single point from all.we are not making the top 4 simply because we don’t score much.
I beg to differ,
Don’t be suprise we get some points from those “big opponents”. Who knows Arsenal will defeat Chelsea and man City in the F.A. cup? Who knows Arsenal will win the community shield against “the almighty Liverpool”?. This is a team under rebuild, we shouldn’t expect much from them, besides, they are doing beyond expectations; check out Arsenal’s cleansheet and goals conceded this season. I still believe in the process Arteta is on. Let’s give him time…
The players didnt reallly want to cooperate with him…after 22 games unbeaten..what really went wrong. But one ting i know for sure is that emeru’s away record is appalling for most clubs
That’s what you get when someone takes the states and apply them with a bias.
One fact remains, Arteta finished 8th twice, with the lowest points tally since 1994-95.
Emery won 70 points in his only full season with Arsenal. Let’s hope Arteta manages that this season. It will be a massive success if he does and it will take him ten wins and a draw to get there.
Brentford, Wolves, Leicester, Brighton, Leeds and Everton at home are winnable.
Watford, Crystal Palace, Aston Villa and Southampton are winnable away games.
Games where it could go either way: West Ham away, manure at home and Newcastle away.
Let’s see if his paper-thin squad can manage it.
Emrey received little backing because he was not able to convince the owners for this. But Mikel Arteta earned it and i think we have to praise him for this also.
Only Wenger 22 seasons and Graeme 8 and a half seasons can be fairly assessed. Rioch, Emery and Arteta have/were not in the job long enough to be fairly critiqued. Graeme with one title every 4 years beats Wenger’s once every seven years title record.
Aha, AdPat, you’re bringing up facts?
These folks don’t like facts and they don’t work with it. Agenda against the manager must go on.
Always any chance to put the manager down.
See Reggie up there, soon as you brought out the facts, he’s shifted the goalpost from attacking Terta with lies that he has the poorest win record to Why does Emery have close to Arteta without much backing.
You see how the goalpost shifts whenever they want to embark on their attack?
But they can’t change the facts, which is why I felt that statement had to be challenged.
And considering Arteta got those figures in “our two worst seasons in 25 years”, I am fully expecting them to be improved on in the next few years…
So what tou are saying is, we should have kept Wenger, spent less money and we would be beter off than under Arteta?
The facts in article back it up right?
Haha, that may be what the facts conjure up in your mind.
Personally I am just giving facts and figures without making conclusions.
Another fact check that could be interesting Pat is how was the net spend under Emery vs Arteta.
Sokratis, Leno, Tierney, Pepe, Torreira etc we’re purchased under Emery.
I check the net (purchases – sales) spend a couple of month ago and it was something like 150 vs 165 mil.
Yet one manager is labelled by some fans as cheque book manager and the other one had next to no support from the club…
Utter rubbish yet again!
Hello Eddie, you are the one telling lies as you do, idiot. Show me the post where i have ever said that he has the poorest win record. Stop lying to make posts up. Idiot!!
My comment about stats backing me up wasn’t about win rate specifically just an overall statement but that is for making a whole article about it .
BTW your facts as you call them are wrong
Emery alone as a better win rate than Arteta ,that took me 20 seconds to find .
But thanks *
Errr Dan, you SPECIFICALLY stated win-rate and stats backing you up.
But please, explain where my “facts as you call them are wrong” and where my figures are wrong between Emery and Arteta?
And where are these “stats that back you up”?
Are this stats only from PL games or all games? Because I went to check a statement from Dan on wikipedia and he is actually right.
78 43 16 19 55.1
And this is Arteta on wikipedia
115 61 22 32 53.0
Only EPL games garner points so I’m thinking just EPL.
Premier League: P51 W25 D13 L13 F91 A70 GD+21 Win percentage: 49%
FA Cup: P2 W1 D0 L1 F4 A3 GD+1 Win percentage: 50%
League Cup: P5 W3 D0 L2 F19 A14 GD+5 Win percentage: 60%
Europa League: P20 W14 D2 L4 F42 A18 GD+24 Win percentage: 70%
In that case Arteta P80 W39 D16 L25
So just to be clear I am not Arteta out, but if we are showing stats it should be same for all, not Arteta in all games and the rest only in EPL.
I agree and wasn’t aware of the anomaly. But EVEN with your figures Arteta is NOT our worst manager since 1986!
That was the original statement…
This aren’t my figures and I don’t think Arteta is our worst manager. I really hope that his stats will go up from now and maybe one day they will be even better then of great Arsene.
So don’t get me wrong, everyone can make an error, we are humans after all and I agree with your original statement.
“Artetas win rate is 52 % he is the worst manager to rock up at our club since 88 stats back me up “
Now I wrote STATS which would imply more than one.
Like I said the win rate was just part of that .
Including ALL GAMES:
Arteta G115 W61 D22 L32 WIN% 53
AW G1,235 W707 D280 L248 WIN% 57.2
UE G78 W43 D16 L19 WIN% 55.1
Thanks for the facts, Admin
Arteta’s detractors should’ve realized that Kroenke doesn’t seem to be patient anymore, by not giving Arteta a new CF in January
So they could rest assured that Arteta would most likely get sacked if he can’t show a good progress in May
Kroenke has given him lot’s of time and cash, so not sure if your point is accurate.
Could you not put the lacking of backing in Jan due to the following:
-wrong targets (possibly willing to pay for a better/realistic target?)
-poor contract management, losing a ton of money on payers running down contracts over past 2 years)
-ousted players still on our books
Arsenal could’ve loaned a CF first, to properly evaluate him and it wouldn’t cost too much
If I were Arsenal owner and saw the good chance to finish in top four by signing a new CF, I would’ve done it for the current management
But maybe Kroenke feels he has spent enough money for Arteta/ Edu and he might’ve been tapping Ten Hag up
Gai, if you ask me this article and stat is not necessary now until the season is more closer to end. This can be a great distraction for the coach; we know teams even with good players and EPL coaches finds this league very difficult to compete in. Conte with his experience already complaining despite great attackers in Cain Song.. Man U with all the stars still not consistent. Let’s cut Arteta some slacks. Like Ian Write siad “If we make Top6 it’s still progress under Arteta. Like the saying goes ” You don’t know what you have until you lose it”
Yeah Sylva. We shouldn’t have distracted the team, but I guess the traffic is more important to this site
Arteta has been managing the team decently, considering the problems and if we compare him with Ancelotti/ Rodgers/ Benitez
Can we change this website name to Just Pro MA?
MA has 2 years of 8th position. HE IS YET 5O ACHIEVE TOP 4. WHY COME OUT WITH SO MANY RUBBISH WHEN THIS SEASON IS YET OVER? AND HE Y
Not sure why I cannot post on this article
“MA has a good points % haul but has also received good support whereas Emery did not receive the same support but has a similar points %.”
This are the other factors. Do you understand now or do I have to draw it to you?
This was a reply to previous comment which I accidentaly post as a New comment. Ad feel free to delete it.
but this is also a fact right, Arteta has reeceived more financial support and is involved in player recruitment where Emery was not.
I didn’t say that it’s not a fact. I said it was the other factors. You can see what I mean if you see my reply to PJ-SA in the first comment of this article.
Stats mean nothing when you compare the eras. Even Burnley and Ipswich town were winners in the 60s and where are they now? Then in the 80s and 90s it was a two horse race and the 18 teams were all beatable. The exception was Leeds in 1992 and Blackburn in 1995. Today most clubs have overseas owners investing in talent and coaching staff and yet Mikel is at par with them despite being a rookie manager and inheriting one hell of a mess. The motive of the article is maybe to put Mikel down and suppress his achievements.
I think MA has done relatively well but what are his achievements at Arsenal?
We know the FA Cup win which was well done with the players he didn’t want or rate. Maybe those players weren’t that bad? With our new squad we were very poor in the cup games and keeping in mind we have had no European games.
We’ll be back in Europe next year(very likely) so it will be very interesting to see how we fair once we have a “normal” amount of games again adding more pressure.
In regards to stats alone, Arteta seems hold up very well. When one then considers the state of the squad and club they inherited, well the stats only look even more impressive.
Good work Pat. Context and what comparisons we make are important too. So on win vs loss ratios, strangely Graham is way behind….1.876 considering his ‘success’
All similar except Wenger who’s 3 to 1 win to loss ratio is really something. The others are similar. Shows the Wenger years will be hard to get beyond. Maths is not my strong point so sorry is I’ve made errors.
Facts are where you finish in the league, thats the fact, the rest is conjecture.
I agree Reggie, but I think the fact Wenger had such a high win to loss ratio of over 3 to 1, and constantly kept us challenging and reached 4th place or higher ‘forever’, shows that all the others, including, Arteta are/were chasing rainbows. I became ‘Wenger out as it went on too long, way too long, and our win ratio went down quickly, but the 3.31 to one is something. Alex Ferguson had a 4.6 to 1 win ratio….incredible, Pep in Sept 2021 had a 5 to 1 one ratio. I think that shows what a mountain Arteta needs to climb. At the moment we are not in a good position at all. Win ratios create the extra points to gain position so is a better indicator of where a team will finish in the league.
Spot on Reggie
Correct Guys Wengers record dwarfs the other but the league is a different animal in every way now. Comparing different eras is silly really. Winning titles and league positions is the only real thing that matters and Arteta has a way to catch all our managers Graham onwards.
what a ridiculous attempt to cloud the argument with nonsensical “facts” AdPat…it’s one thing to compare Emery’s rate, over a similar amount of games, and Arteta’s, but to try and make some logical comparison with those who have managed for significantly more games in charge is a laughable endeavour…ultimately, as I’ve said on countless occasions, it’s all about the “eye test” and there were times when all of the above mentioned coaches/managers failed this all-important “test” and as a result they were summarily removed from the building…instead of leaning into this choir-approved narrative, why not compare Arteta’s numbers to those of a specific period when we aspired for things, so we can see just how far we need to go in order to turn things around…all you’ve done here is lowered the bar in order to prop-up MA’s rather uninspiring tenure thus far
Excuse me, Mr argumentative. I simply challenged the assertion that (on stats), Arteta is our worst manager since 1988.
There are the stats in front of you, so is Dan correct?
that seems like a private issue between yourself and DK, but when you present “facts” in such a disingenuous fashion you simply encourage others to do likewise…by posting comparisons between Wenger or GG and Arteta without the proper context, you give the appearance of making a valid point, but that couldn’t be further from the truth…it’s almost as ridiculous as me posting the “fact” that Arteta is a far worse coach/manager than Pat Rice solely based on their respective winning percentages
Wenger got the sack for not keeping us in the top four, if any manager cant get us top four, then they HAVE to be judged by the same rule of thumb. It isnt about Arteta and how well he is or isnt doing, its about can he get us back to where we were before that manager was sacked and treated the same way.
POINTLESS ME ONCE AGAIN SAYING I MUCH AGREE WITH Pat and disagree with DK, as all regulars on JA will already know this.
DK has long been known for stating his own opinions as facts, when they are no such thing, so nothing in this article at all surprises me.
WHAT WOULD AMAZE ME BUT WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IS IF DAN KIT HAD EVEN ONE POSITIVE WORD TO SAY ABOUT OUR FINE YOUNG MANAGER!!
Almost as much as if Dan did not immediately read my post and once again try, though in vain, to smear my character with a smart arse reply, thus showing his childish side once again.
Jon, with these stats why do you back Arteta yet wanted Wenger out?
Should we not sack Arteta for being worse? The stats prove this.
Can anyone provide stats to the contrary, i doubt it. Admin Pat proved Arteta is not doing to great and we have regressed since Wenger left.
Mambo we was regressing under Wenger, Arteta had to do rebuilding job, points wise we are going in the right direction and on course to do better points wise than the previous two season…..
I wonder what these stats would look like if we compared money spent per point, where would Arteta rank do you think.
My guess would be near the bottom.
Besides getting rid of so called deadwood that achieved top 4 and won the FA cup, what other positives has he made.
Finishing higher on table – no
Spending more money for probably less points per game – yes
Bad tactics and boring football – yes
out of Europe – yes
beating top 4 in PL games or at least showing fight – no
falling out with players and losing the club money – yes
giving huge contracts – yes
great hair – yes
fashion – yes
On stats alone Arteta is way short of wenger and that is what some on here have been saying and they are right.
MAMBO. My answer to your question is a simple one; I do not judge by stats alone, as you are doing. I judge by all round improvement in how the club is being run under MA. I rejoice that half hearted coasters like Ozil, Auba and troublemakers like Guendouzi are sensibly forced out.
I like the whole direction we are travelling and rejoice that is a far healthier club now than for many years before MA took over.
That is my answer and I add that our squad is leaner, hungrier and with far fewer useless deadwood players, costing us money for nothing in return.
In fact, we have largely cleaned up the mess AW and UE left behind . But most of all we have a young team full of committed and talented full out tryers.
If you cannot see all that, and it seems you cannot, then I pity you and your lack of perceptiveness
Stopped reading at Fine young manager .
The rest was just gibberish as per ….
I quote: ”OUR FINE YOUNG MANAGER!! ”
The ‘pinochios of the media have been blabbering on about our defeat at Brentford, gloating on the defeat without any reference to detail and facts. According to their wisdom was ‘Arteta MUST GO’ .
Now we have team that is growing stronger and stronger with Arteta at the helm.
Of course the team will lose a game they should not have lost and the critics will laugh the day.
No matter in the last few months we have been witnessing a revivial and a return to all that is best about the club on the pitch.
May be in these last fifteen games the wheels will fall off. Who knows? If they do the babberlers will roar their vitriolic even lounder.
Doesn’t matter. Artete has given us a vision of hope and determination that will silence babberlers until the next down turn in the affiars of the club we love.
The stats are meaningless as they lack any kind of context.
League position is one factor but it cannot be the only one to judge a manager’s performance.
Points per money spent is even more contentious.
Correct but league position trumps everything.
Referring to league position without context is disingenuous.
I don’t think these facts and stats tell us whether or not if Arteta is our worst or best manager. All the facts and stats of the afore mentioned managers are set in stone as they have all finished their time as managers. Artetas contract is still running, and every game played will alter those statistics. So until such time as it’s ended I don’t think we can’t say statistically whether he’s done better or worse than previous managers. Facts and stats also show that Sam Allardyce was the best ever England manager !!!
Stats mean JS!!!!!! Facts cant be argued.
I think and believe that after Arteta has realized that the Wenger’s and Emery’s teams he inherited will no longer take him and the club to the next level beyond the level of the two titles of FA Cup and Charity Shield they’ve won for us when he newly arrived at Arsenal.
The club and him then embarked on a process plan to rebuild the inherited team which he Arteta inherited. Especially as this his inherited team regressed in competitions domestically and externally in two seasons that saw Arsenal finished 8th consecutively in the EPL and in Cup competitions. This general decline of the inherited team followed their triumphant season. During which they won the FA Cup and Charity Shield for us.
But as the Arteta’s inherited team regressed domestically and externally failing to record any success again to win titles when Arteta arrived and inherited them.. And coupled with the impolsion in the ranks of the team that broke out. Which saw some senior team Gunners and Saliba got frozen out of the team on disciplinary ground. And the twice 8th consecutive finishes in the EPL that Arsenal suffered is looking to have forced Arteta’s, Edu’s and the Arsenal board’s hands to embark on a plan to rebuild the Arsenal team that will reflect the true image of the club true as an elite North London giants club side in the EPL. So that the somewhat declining Arsenal high profile image as winners of titles will be saved from the downwards turn that they have been experiencing for the past two seasons running.
In all honesty, ever since Arsenal failures in the past two seasons domestically and externally in all competitions. Arteta has ostensibly embarked on a process at rebuilding the Arsenal first team squad in his own image i would think. Which he principally has based on recruiting new top quality young players who are within the ages of 20 – 21 – 22 year old into the team as us have seen been done by the club last summer window. When six new top quality young players were signed by the club. And more new top young quality player are being expected will be signed next summer by the club again. So as to advance Arteta’s plan of his Arsenal team rebuilding in his own image. Which after he succeeded to rebuild successfully, will bolster the chases of Arsenal to win titles as front next season’s campaign.
Therefore, let us Gooners in our love showing for Arsenal continue to have faith in God as us support our club. And be praying for Arteta unrelenting, and hope God will help him to see him through successfully in his efforts making at rebuilding the Arsenal team in his own mage. The Arsenal rebuild team in his own image that will become a formidable football power house team competitively competing in all competitions next season winning titles is earnestly being awaited by us to be built.