After all the controversy of Arsenal’s disllowed goal at Newcastle has seen some fans call for VAR to be scrapped completely, But the latest comment from Howard Webb, the head of the PGMOL, seems to put to bed any thoughts of VAR technology being scrapped and echos the thoughts of those forward thinking people who see the benefits of it and do not want to stop progress within the game:
He said:
“WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT AWAY (VAR)?
LEAVE THOSE ERRORS IN THE GAME? (WHY?)
I KNOW THE OFFICIALS WOULD RATHER HAVE IT THERE TO PROTECT THEM FROM MAKING CLEAR ERRORS.”
The quote above is from the horse’s mouth, so to speak and makes an ass of those who say they want the officials to be protected from var technology.
The technology is actually protecting them!!
Official quote from Howard Webb on scrapping VAR: “It would be foolish to take away a tool that can remove clear errors from the game – almost 40 this season.
Usually, we’ve seen around 100 situations rectified through the use of VAR. Why would you want to take that away and leave those errors.
Just to remind everyone, the figures from the PGMOL itself, declares that 99.4% of major decisions are now correct – we just need those who actually use var technology – along with a couple of rule changes – handball and offside flag – to see the game flourish.
As Howard Webb and his officials say, what’s the point of returning to more mistakes and less accountability?
ken1945
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It’s the leadership of PGMOL is the problem, if the head of the Stream is dirty, down stream will be contaminated.
The ex cop’s dirty?
He has shown extreme bias against Arsenal if you ask me.
Is it sheer coincidence, that both lost Arsenal have suffered in the premier league this season he refused to distance himself from the error of his subordinate, they will continue to makes these rash decisions because they knows they have the support of the leadership.
Why was a penalty not awarded to Arsenal after a clear handball on an Aston Villa player before the big German bundle the ball over the line ?
Why was a penalty not awarded to us earlier on?
But he was quick to justify the goal should stand
Webb’s role with VAR is just selecting the refs and them making excuses for their errors, and he did give a good explanation of why the Havertz goal was not given, but I agree that he should have been more forthright over the Jesus penalty claim.
I don’t see him as dirty, not even a little dusty.
then not “them”.
We could do with an edit facility here admin.
So to understand you clearly Sir Jax, If little jonny steal a purse and his mom’s justified his actions by saying jonny was hungry, can we say mom has not a ounce of dust?
Ha! All I can suggest is that little jonny’s mom should feed him better, so that he wouldn’t have to steal purses.
🙂
I believe VAR has improved the official decisions in the games
We just need to keep improving it by making the AI aspect of VAR smarter
Maybe we can replace most referee’s decisions with AI’s in the future
Having VAR disrupts the game but is a price I’m happy to pay for better accuracy. It still has its fair share of errors though. Our biggest issue with VAR this season is probably the Newcastle goal, but even if there was no VAR, that goal would have stood based on the referee’s decision. Hence VAR didn’t make the referee’s decision worse. It just didn’t correct the decision in that instance due to what VAR claimed was no clear and obvious error
But VAR made not one , not two, but THREE mistakes in that one small session of play at Newcastle, in our game.
I thought it was way beyond merely a “disgrace” , as MA said, too understatedly.
Their risible claim of 99.4% accuracy is a hollow lie!
As all perpective fans can EASILY SEE.
I have my doubts too about the 99.4% to be honest. Overall I still believe it has yielded an improvement in accuracy, not for the Newcastle game, but over the season in general.
The standard of VAR at Newcastle was indeed a sham. I was incensed like many of our fans. It was only after emotions subsided that I thought about whether the referee would have gotten it right without VAR and saw that the outcome would have been the same. VAR didn’t cause a downgrade in the decision, just wasted time and got the brunt of our fury
Are you SUGGESTING that the PGMOL are lying and CORRUPT Jon?
That claim by PGMOL of 99.4% accuracy is an outright falsehood, knowingly issued.
Are those insulting our collective JA intelligence TRULY asking us to swallow the lie that just six VAR decisions in a thousand are wrong?
I regard that as an outright lie designed to fool and thus placate those who dont think deeply about the whole VAR subject!
Are you suggesting that the PGMOL are not telling the truth Jon?
Why on earth would they want to do that, especially as it means they are admitting that var has IMPROVED the correct decisions given?
I see that you haven’t grasped what is being said Jon, so let me try to explain to you :
The percentage figure being talked about, is the MAJOR decisions that have been looked at by VAR technology and…. it’s been verified by the PGMOL that they have rectified major decisions that were called wrongly by the on field official to the extent that, NOW, 99.4% of THOSE decisions are now correct.
That’s why the PGMOL want to see it carry on, be improved and help referees when making such important decisions – only those who don’t want progress seem to want to oppose it, thank goodness the PGMOL and it’s members are FORWARD THINKING!!
So now you think tht PGMOL, who you have called corrupt, as have I , are, incredulously, “FORWARD THINKING”! Revealing of your own hypocrisy, KEN!
Wanting to keep var, doesn’t mean they are not corrupting the game with their decisions Jon – methinks you haven’t got yourself into a situation that you are trying to wriggle out of by any means possible.
. The FACT that the PGMOL are saying they want to KEEP the technology, blows your argument that it is detrimental to them, completely out of the water!!!
The ONLY conclusion must be that those who use the technology are trained properly and have consistency within the law when off field decisions are made.
There is NO HYPOCRISY in my thinking whatsoever, just using plain common sense and until that CONSISTENCY is given, the corruption continues – Howard Webb so welcome statement, shows that the PGMOL are forward looking and want to see that happen, thus avoiding any more corruption of the rules of the game.
Simple really Jon – surprised you haven’t grasped the situation being a man of self confessed intelligence and superior to most others on JA.
And you have independant PROOF of that, do you KEN?
Or are you merely relying on a statement from that “not fit for purpose” (dis) organisation?
Relying on the testimony of an organsation that is keen to defend itself from correctly based criticism is not what I would regard as wise. WOULD YOU?
Despite our long running debates, I SEE NO CHANGE FROM YOUR CONSTANT TOTAL RELIANCE ON ALL OFFICIAL STATEMENTS AS ALWAYS BEING HONESTLY MADE.
You would never have made it in the police force with THAT naive outlook Ken!
In reply to Kens post timed at 4.24 above.
But Jon, up and until the statement, you backed the officials 100%…. suddenly it seems you now see them as liars and corrupt, just because they have a different opinion to you on var technology!
I haven’t changed my view one iota, as I still see var technology as a step forward, while referees such as Mike Dean who ignore the rulebook, are corrupting the game.
I’m personally over the moon with Howard Webb’s statement, as that takes away the false claims being made that var technology was undermining the officials, as you have often stated.
Instead, of course, it’s doing the complete opposite – the problem is that you can’t admit you were wrong all along 😂😂
It might be better to say that 99.4% of decisions were not clearly wrong (even then, 99.4% is still a ridiculous number, I agree!) – particularly given that the role of VAR, we’re told, is to overturn only “clear and obvious errors”.
It’s evident to me that many decisions in football are not objectively right or wrong. If it were possible to objectively say right or wrong in every case, it wouldn’t be possible to have so much debate over them, and the “clear and obvious” wording wouldn’t be necessary.
YES IT MIGHT, AND THEY HAV SAID IT BY CLAIMING 99.4@ ARE CORRECT.
But I cannot believe an obviouslybright Gooner like you ACTUALLY believes that figure is true.
It plainly is not true They are speaking lies!
Even though I agree your point that a number of VAR decisions are little more than trying to guess, without having the technology to be DEFINITELY right or wrong.
EXAMPLE, the Newcastle goal that seemed over rthe goalline before being crossed in by Willock.
It looked CLEARLY out, BUT VAR SAID THEY COULD NOT BE SURE, SO AWARDED THE GOAL. Corrupt then? You bet!! They are protecting their own grossinefficiency bt claiming that PLAINLY FALSE FIGURE OF99.4% ARE CORRECT. Only dull wits believe that claim and you are NOT a dull wit!
I didn’t say I thought it was true, I said it was ridiculous, and I agree it is a lie (no doubt one they could back by twisting definitions of major incidents etc if really pushed).
I do disagree with you on the last point – first of all, there is an angle recently released by bein sports which shows that the ball didn’t go out, but more importantly I think you’re looking at it the wrong way around. Their approach should be to allow a goal unless they find a reason to disallow it, not to prove that the goal should stand. If the evidence is inconclusive, they should allow what happened on the pitch to stand.
Ultimately I do think this goal should have been disallowed for the push on Gabriel – this was also the conclusion of Andy gray on bein sports. Listening to the footage, I believe the var refs focused too much on the other two incidents, and rather glossed over the push by Joelinton. I see it as a simple mistake due to the pressure of the situation, not corruption.
I mean if they thought the ball was in then, why did they not give the United goal vs Brighton? Pretty sure that looked way more on-field than the Newcastle one
So Jon, you have now gone FULL CIRCLE with respect to the officials being corrupt – what a joke!!
It’s only because Howard Webb has come out and said that the PGMOL are in favour of keeping it, as it PROTECTS referees, that you have now turned so viciously against the officials you previously wanted to protect with life and limb.
You have been proven WRONG, have the GRACE to admit it and embrace the progress that var technology brings… along with it’s human frailities in using it.
Jon, i agree with you.
While i do believe VAR has reduced officiating errors on a general note(and thus would not advocate for its scrapping), there have still been cases of obvious errors being made in this VAR regime, with this season not being an exception.
For PGMOL to claim a 99.4% accuracy is laughable.
My personal belief is that VAR can be a massive improvement to fair results. When it uses technology alone in making calls which can be determined with absolute certainty (such as offsides) there really should be no debate IMO other than disruption to the otherwise normal flow of the match.
All other reviews should ONLY be reviewed by the ref on the pitch at the monitor regardless of whether a VAR official believes the original call may have been incorrect. The pitch refs know which calls may not be correct because they did not get a perfect look at the action, etc. He should be the one to stop play and initiate a review. He should be given the opportunity to use replays, etc. to change his original call if he feels it was incorrect. It would take no more time away from the game and the number of stoppages for reviews would be the same as it is now.
Forgot to mention that VAR can initiate a review for something the pitch ref apparently has not seen occur. However, as mentioned above, the pitch ref should be the only official who does the review of the action.
BB, your very first paragraph sums the WHOLE debate up perfectly – well said!!
Thanks Ken. I must be missing something major with my second paragraph because I seem to be the only one proposing such a thing. It just seems that the problems occurring with VAR are primarily based in there being 2 purportedly expert opinions on the same play. It’s almost like a jury situation where the jury with the most influence ends up essentially becoming the decision maker regardless of the correct decision.
“juror” with the most…..
Or to put it another way, Webb is saying that referees can (and sometimes do) make mistakes but have a back up system to assist in getting the correct decisions.
What’s not to like, other than the VAR refs also getting it wrong!
Jax.. EXACTLY and all we haven’t done to date, is train the officials using var technology to be competent and consistent…. it will come my friend, as progress cannot be stopped – no matter how much of a “stick in the mud” one wants to be.
Ken, presumably we’ll eventually get the semi-automated offside tech, and perhaps even Hawkeye for line decisions, which will leave just the calls that require actual human judgements.
Surely they can’t get that wrong😜.
I guess SOME will call it PHASE TWO Jax, with phase 3,4 and 5 to follow!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
Seriously though, with all the money in the PL, wouldn’t you have thought that your suggestions would have already been implemented, along with more vigorous var training?
Hahahahaha, Ken I think I like your style 😄
And only THEN, WHEN VAR IS COMPLETELY automated without need for human inevitable error when operating it, will VAR be fit for purpose.
Why you KEN have SUCH faith in humans being incapable of mistakes, is both touching and naive,all in one.
Jon, I ABSOLUTELY know that humans make mistakes, just by following your take on this message backing var technology as it helps the officials.
All your previous posts have been about var taking decisions away from the officials, therefore belittling them and eroding their authority… NOW that they have come out in FAVOUR OF THE technology, you concentrate your attack on a % figure that you have NO IDEA about, but accuse the PGMOL of lying and being corrupt when quoting it.
Your not even CONSIDERING the fact that they welcome the technology as it helps them to make the right decisions – yet ANOTHER one of your claims that var didn’t do!!
YOURS has been the most AMAZING turnaround of any viewpoint I have EVER read on JA and yet you STILL try to use smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that you have been proved WRONG by the organisation you said you RESPECTED – they are now corrupt and liars, simply because they PROVED YOUR IDEAS AND COMMENTS WRONG.
People who wanted to get rid of technology used to be called Luddites (after the movement of workers who raided and smashed the new textiles machinery back in the 19th century).
I remember a few years ago when someone was against tech advancement ppl wd say “He’s a bit of a Luddite”.
Seems to be one or two Luddites on this forum?
Webb is right for the most part. But the confusion and disagreements caused by some VAR decisions seems to have an answer. That is, why not just let the ref on the pitch get it right or wrong by himself but only after using the technologies available for the reviews. It seems the only things here improving the results are the technology and the fact that someone else may identify something on the pitch that the pitch ref may not see at all (such as fouls behind the play).
VAR should be there to
1. Override the referee decisions if they have been made by error or if the official hasn’t noticed something.
2. It should be used as an assistance to the referee when he is not sure about something.
VAR should be the higher court to the official primary court.
What is the point of a panel looking at replays in every angle only for it to be left to the referee to make final decision and still get it wrong?
If the official is corrupt or biased then how will VAR stop them? With the ultimate power still in the referee hands VAR becomes a distraction instead of positive addition.
One problem is the ‘clear and obvious error’ part. As far as I know, all other sports that have video review just use it to find the correct decision. No issue with ‘ref couldn’t see incident so didn’t make a mistake’.
That’s the bit I don’t understand either Snorky – if he’s MADE ANY kind of error and VAR technology can rectify 5, why not implement it?
Completely the wrong way around.
Pitch ref OUGHT always to have the final decision . I loathe and detest the introduction of VAR but, while it is still here ,it must be subordinate to the match ref. Otherwise, why even HAVE a pitch ref at all!!
LEAVE every decsion to VAR and then all games last a whole week. Bonkers thinking!
Individual referees must distance themselves from PGMOL leadership, else they will be continues to be overlooked for selection in international tournaments.
Allan Webb has already been there but young officials who are aspiring to officiate at the very top, these weekly drama does not inspire confidence
You may have got your wish. A female ref will be in PL action on 23rd Dec, Fulham v Burnley.
Carelessly I didn’t name her, she’s Rebecca Welch.
If Palace leave the Etihad with a point he’s one of the most clever old fox in the business,
Dead and buried and returned to life
…and Palace got their point👏
The second coming Gunsmoke!!
Forget for a momenrt all the above posts on this thread!
Right now what matters most to Arsenal is that PALACE RESCUED A 2-2 draw from being 2-0 down at Etihad.
GREAT NEWS, which dwarfs all interesting, though irrelevant, mere fan opinions on VAR.
That is, UNTIL the next VAR farce, probably tomorrow!
I’d say that overriding news is of Luton captain collapsing in the game against B’mouth, causing it to be abandoned.
I understand he’s now in hospital and conscious.
Luton captain Tom Lockyer
I was following their game before I switched to the Chelsea one after it was abandoned. It was a disturbing atmosphere.
I read this is the second time and the first after his heart surgery. Good news he is in stable condition. Wishing him full recovery and return to football soon.
You are of course right, or would be, IF he was not obviously conscious and therefore not going to die , when the game was abandoned, too soon IMO!
I WISH HIM WELL, AS DO ALL RIGHT THINKING FANS TOO.
City 2-2 Crystal Palace
Thanks CP
Well played
Sadly VAR is contaminated with prejudice, incompetence and maybe (criminal) corruption. How do we know? Yes…..we watch it every week…. and it is seen every week.. Does Howard Webb think we can’t see? He must be hallucinatory. Supporters know what their eyes see.
🙄