Arsenal have had Mikel Arteta as their manager for the past six years, yet he has still not delivered a Premier League title for the club.
The former midfielder has overseen a significant transformation, elevating Arsenal from a struggling giant to one of the top two teams in the Premier League. Under his leadership, the team has displayed remarkable consistency, but questions remain about whether they have now reached their ceiling under his management.
In consecutive seasons, Arsenal have finished as runners-up in the league, and they appear set for another second-place finish this term. While this represents substantial progress from where they were before Arteta’s arrival, there is growing debate over whether the team has been stuck at the same level for longer than expected.
Losing the last two titles to an exceptional Manchester City side is understandable. Pep Guardiola’s team have set incredibly high standards, making them one of the most dominant forces in modern football. However, if Arsenal were to fall short against Arne Slot’s Liverpool this season, it would be far more difficult to accept. Given the progress made over recent years, failing to capitalise on this momentum could be seen as a missed opportunity.
With another second-place finish seemingly on the horizon, it is worth questioning whether Arteta is the right manager to take Arsenal to the next level. While he has brought stability and a competitive edge back to the club, his relative inexperience remains a factor. Despite his influence, he could be holding Arsenal back from making the final step to becoming champions of England.
Moreover, Arsenal currently possess one of the most talented and youthful squads they are likely to have for many years. This makes now an ideal time to consider a change in leadership rather than waiting until key players have passed their peak. A new manager could inherit a strong foundation and potentially bring the tactical edge required to secure the Premier League title.
These factors raise valid concerns about whether Arteta remains the best choice to lead Arsenal to ultimate success.
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Bore
Recipe for disaster. If we sack him for coming second then the next guy will be under the pressure of instantly winning the premier league or being sacked. We will end up like Man Utd or Chelsea, constantly turning over managers and moaning that nothing is good enough.
The article unsurprisingly gives some unconvincing reasons and simply scapegoats Arteta just like many of the commentators on the site.
It also tries to imply that simply changing the manager would make Arsenal more likely to win a major title by rather tenuous reasoning.
Yet another negative load of nonsense from this supposedly Arsenal supporting site.
We face more than enough critical abuse on a daily basis without you adding to it.
Supporters are supposed to support, not stir the pot and encourage dissent.
There is a relatively small but loud number of fans who have always been negative about the manager so these kind of articles will be placed to reflect their views.
If you consider Arteta’s peers and the views of respected journalists around the world you will find that he is considered one of the top managers in world football. However, on a football forum anyone can say anything so you have nonentities calling him “substandard” or directing personal abuse.
The article makes a point about his inexperience. This is largely irrelevant at this point. Any manager that can take a team to 89 points in the PL needs to be taken seriously. In assessing his performance it is essential to take into account multiple factors. These will include the squad depth, injuries etc. It is also necessary to take into account external factors. These will include the teams we are up against, financial rules etc.
Arne Slot’s Liverpool are not some Mickey Mouse team that came out of nowhere. This is a squad that has been built and evolved over the past decade or so. For a good part of this season they were considered the best in Europe and they have had an outstanding PL campaign to this point. So whilst it would be disappointing to be behind them this season this is not enough by itself to be calling for the manager to be sacked.
Go somewhere else if you don’t like it
There have been things in my perception that have troubled me about MA in his tenure here but I don’t believe there’s any good reason to believe that MA cannot be our manager in a title winning season. For me, much of what is written in the article tells me just the opposite.
Arteta already has it within him to do the right thing to prolong his stay with us if he wants.
He’s therefore not going anywhere any time soon as he’ll certainly turn things around
First we need to complete the squad with necessary players in necessary positions.
Arteta has tried make shift strikers to get us this far, but we need a clinical goal scorer, someone capable of finishing when we only create a couple chances against a tough opponent.
Next year should be a year for Arteta to prove himself and deliver.
Nearly a billion spent by then on his handpicked squad. He can build a good squad, now he has to win with them.
However, if he continues to finish top 4 and get through early rounds of CL, Arteta isn’t going anywhere.
“However, if Arsenal were to fall short against Arne Slot’s Liverpool this season, it would be far more difficult to accept”. This quote perfectly sums up the problem with some Arsenal fans – context!
For me, Arteta has done a wonderful job, but only for so long can we wax lyrical without anything tangible to show for it. As much as it pained me to think, given our upwards trajectory and how close we’re getting to winning something, I came into this season feeling we should replace Arteta if it was another trophyless campaign.
That was my overview of the situation. However, we also have to judge the manager on each season individually – and this season has been an absolute nightmare in regards to player availability.
As with any team sport, there’s a multitude of reasons as to why a club succeeds and fails. Transfers, tactics, injuries, player power, owners, finances, all play a role with varying degrees, but by a country mile, our biggest issue this season has been player availability.
It’s the worst injury crisis I have ever seen, and a whopping five cards on top of that as well!
Given the circumstances, I think Arteta has done very well to not only keep us in second place in the league, but a cup SF and CL QF to boot, with possibly more progress to come in Europe.
Of course there’s been other issues as well that have contributed in a negative way, but it’s impossible to ignore the injuries and suspensions.
Just imagine if Slot had the same issues. Could you imagine Salah out for 5/6 months, not to mention all the other injuries and suspensions!
A good way of judging Arteta this season, would be to ask yourself – what were you expecting considering all the injuries and red cards?
Man,
You spoke absolute facts.
As much as most of us are disappointed by how the season had unfold for us, but considering the factors that had gone against us this season, we are not bad in terms of achievements and performance. Just need that luck and final few signings to get us over the line.
Lucy78, your going to get a reputation if you keep writing these kind of positive posts on JA.
I believe your speaking absolute common sense, while covering the topics you write about.
My only disagreement with you, is the way MA has tried to put square pegs into round holes, when he didn’t need to – playing Partey at RB being the perfect example.
Lucy78, please be honest with yourself and you will find that Mikel is responsible for the state of affairs regarding injuries
1. Gabby J – how many games a season has he played for us and what is his return of goals. From past history if you rely on him to play 38 games and score 25 goals , somebody is naive
2. Knowing the fitness of Gabby, and Eddie exiting the club, relying of Kai to play all 38 league games + domestic cups + UCL without an injury , somebody is naive
3. Saka was burned out since the World cup, playing the lad every single game without rotating him (even though Ethan is doing a great job) and expect him not to get injured, somebody is naive
4. No CAM back up for Odegard, Fabio being loaned out, ESR exiting the club and not hiring a CAM, somebody is naive
5. Hiring Sterling of all players having flopped at CFC for 2 seasons, somebody is naive
6. Knowing Tierney is not in Mikel’s plans, needed to be replaced, Tomi & Zinny are usual visitors to the medicos, and hiring Calaufori who just had a bad injury few seasons ago, somebody is naive
7. Keeping hold of Kiwor when he is not trusted and looked rusty last season, no ideal backup to the CBVs, somebody is naive
That somebody is not Stan or Josh or me.
Well summarized. He overuse some players then loss them by injuries. Waste fund on un-necessary positions, he purchases some below average players on huge fee and devalue our players by freezing them then cry for money.
Team is totally playing sideways passing game without much speed. At the moment our best source of goal looks by Gabriel M from set pieces.
He will never succeed at Arsenal if he is not willing to admit his mistakes and learn from it.
There’s no guarantee you will win the League with any manager , that’s the nature of sport, so bit of a nothing article, and yes I get the irony that I’ve commented on it.
Interesting that the injury situation this season was not mentioned as a possible factor in us not being able to compete Liverpool.I find it impressive actually that we are still second given these injuries.
I think Arteta has been given the opportunity to build a world class defence and to a large extent the midfield. I think most would agree that our attack is not the finished article yet. It’s therefore harsh to expect him to win the league with a makeshift attack.
It’s like a house having a solid foundation,excellent walls but a leaking roof. Besides Saka,no one can confidently say our other forwards will be starting games regularly if there were better options. Kai, who I rate highly,would probably thrive just off or behind a centre forward.I strongly believe that this coming transfer window the focus will be on completing the attack and midfield,not merely adding depth. It will be much fairer to judge him after this happens.
P.S. I don’t think firing managers always works positively,unless the club is in decline,which we aren’t.
Firing a manager for finishing second is just as stupid as firing a manager who delivered top four finishes for 290 years, then had a bad year…. Oh… wait! That’s exactly what Arsenal did.
Arsene Wenger delivered Champions League football for 20 years, then missed it twice, and got pushed out after winning 7 FA Cups and 3 league titles despite having to constantly sell his best players.
Arteta has been given the keys to the treasury, and resources Wenger never imagined, but his own… ‘ego’ is unfair, but tendencies or managerial style perhaps, that is keeping the title out of grasp.
Arsenal signed Gabriel Jesus from Man City to replace Lacazette and Aubameyang, but Jesus never scored more than 14 goals a league season for the most potent offense in the Premier League. Why Arteta thought he would do better for the Gunners is a mystery. He did the same thign with Kai Havertz. Like Jesus, Havertz is a good player; but he’s never scored more than 13 goals in a Premier League season, and he’s not a striker. He’s an attacking midfielder.
It seems like Arteta is constantly trying to prove he knows things other managers don’t. Rather than have a rotation of four center backs, Arsenal have a plethora of ‘defenders.’ most of whom seem to be ‘capable’ of playing left back. And yet, this season alone, Arsenal have played six players in that spot. Tierney, Zinchenko, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly, Timber, Partey, and Calafiori have all had a go. None have been convincing. Right back is tha same. Tomiyasu was supposed to be the answer, but he can’t stay on the pitch. Ben White, a center back by trade, was a revelation, then he too was injured. Timber is having his turn on the right. Menwhile, at Center back, there is Saliba and Magalheas. Period. An injury or suspension to either would be disastrous., with only Kiwior, who has been mediocre at best, to step in.
The best teams are two-deep in every position, allowing the manager to rotate the squad, cover for injuries, and replace players who suffer a slip in form. Nunez is not doing it for Liverpool, in steps Jota. Liverpool have two center forwards, two left wingers, two right wingers, four very good central midfielders, two high quality holding midfielders, two right backs, two left backs, four center backs, and two terrific goal keepers.
At Man City, Haaland was alone at center forward, but seeing the need, the club signed Omar Marmoush to provide needed depth and extra firepower. Arsenal have needed quality and depth at striker since Arteta got rid of Lacazette and Aubameyang, but they have never addressed the need. Gabriel Jesus came in, but the club put its faith in Nketiah, then benched him, they let Balogun go without even trying him, then signed an attacking midfielder as a striker.
At keeper, Raya is very good, but behind him is journeyman Neto. Behind Alisson, Liverpool have Kelleher. At Man City, behind Ederson is Stefan Ortega.
Arsenal signed Fabio Vieira an attacking midfielder with a terrific record of scoring and providing assists. Instead of using him to spell Odegaard, he was played out of position at Center midfield. He was mediocre. He was benched. Now he’s on loan, and in his proper position, he’s scoring and assisting.
Arsenal’s first 11 are capable of winning a title, but the lack of quality in depth, and the manger’s inability or unwillingness to rotate, form a vicious circle leading… lack of quality makes the manager unwilling to rotate, failure to rotate spas match sharpness and makes players want to leave, resulting in a loss of quality…which fuels a further unwillingness to rotate.
Arsenal are not catching Liverpool with Mikel Merino at striker, and they’re not going to beat Real Madrid with a midfielder at center forward either. The reality is, Arsenal are more likely to get caught by Chelsea or Nottingham Forest, than they are to catch Liverpool for the title.
That said, firing a manager for being second three years in a row seems insane. At the moment, Arteta’s flaws make it unlikely he will ever win a title or Champions League… he’s just too unwilling to reflect on his own failures and act to correct them; to be the best. Look at how Pep Guardiola addressed Man City’s performances. He too the blame for not adding quality after Julian Alvarez and Cole Palmer left the team. The best managers own their failures. Arteta has never stepped up and said; we needed a striker, I tried an experiment that didn’t work, this is on me.
We Arsenal fan’s like to defend mediocrity which is why we have not won the league since 2004 apart from fa cups which is not good enough.
I agree Arteta deserves another chance next season but if he doesn’t win the epl or cl next season he should get sacked and there are no 2 ways about it!
Sacking Arteta will go down as one of the worst decisions by whosoever undertakes that at Arsenal. MA has done quite well under demanding circumstances. Let’s support him with the striker he wants and judge him thereafter.
Really, Chelsea had sacked 2 coaches that won them their 2 champion league months after they won it.
If you look around you will see that this is commonplace in football. So I don’t why it you think it will be so stupid to sack Arteta after spending so much money and we are 12 points behind the Liverpool that finished 9 points behind us last season.
Adiva, what major honours did one of those Chelsea managers, Roberto Di Matteo, achieve after getting the sack from Chelsea ?
The fact remains he won cl for them in his first six months and he got sacked within the next six. Another manager that suffered the same faith is Tuchel..
So tell me in the next 10 to 20 years how many fans will looked back at Arsenal under Arteta and say yeah he did great if he doesn’t win anything.
To get wrong, I don’t care if he is sacked or not as my life doesn’t depend on it. But if he is sacked at the end of the season, it won’t be a bad decision.
To answer your question, he has cl medal and nobody give a “duck” if he doesn’t win any thing else. Ask Chelsea fans how that his solitary medal make them feel
There’s no way Mikel will be here in 10 or 20 years if he doesn’t win any trophies. As for Tuchel, his sacking had nothing to do with not winning trophies, more to do with a bust up with the hierarchy at Chelsea.
Maybe Mikel getting the sack at the end of this season won’t be a bad decision for the likes of you, but real supporters who have an understanding of what he’s had to do in rebuilding the club will more than likely disagree.
I really wonder if some of the article writers are true Arsenal fans, but if they are then are writing under the influence or are just having a particularly bad day.
The majority of posts recognise the previous two league positions and the current season with the well documented difficulties of fielding a settled team at all, but still in there in second place. The red cards were also a factor so early in the season, and have made a difference to the points total so far.
There is obviously dissatisfaction with how the season has been overshadowed by Liverpool doing so well, but isn’t it worth considering that however much it is put forward that Liverpool have had their own share of injuries, the level doesn’t compare to Arsenal’s as the stats show? Neither have they been so heavily affected by the loss of senior players for so long. It is, imo, a credit to Arteta and his staff that the team has managed to keep results stable. Not the case for City or Spurs.
Its not a case of being careful what you wish for. Arteta, apart from cup trophies, has steadily been building a better team. Klopp was doing the same and Slot has been the beneficiary. I am not suggesting that Arsenal would have won the league without the level of inuries/cards, but it would have been neck and neck and not the one horse race that it has become.
There is the view that trophies are more important than finishing in the top4. I recall being at Wembley for the FACup final against Villa and it was fantastic/amazing/brilliant. A great memory. I am glad I have it – no doubt Newcastle are still basking in the joy of winning the Carabao Cup – but when push comes to shove, is that win much more important than retaining a top4 place? Having both obviously trumps a cup. Without the income that is generated by top4, getting any sort of trophy becomes an uphill struggle. So, with the current ownership model, top4 top beats a domestic trophy and if Arteta maintains that position, his position is probably ok until his contract comes up for renewal. It depends what it all looks like then.
Spot on 🤙🤙
Who should he be replaced with?
Steve Bruce ?
This site really should be adults only!
Well done Lucy ,well done .
👏
😂😂😂😂Lucy 78 – Brilliant!!
Can’t wait to see the response!!
Keep up.
Sorry DK, was writing my own response to the article.
I think Lucy78 got your number this time though 🤣🤣
Dan Kit,
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😉👍
I know you were joking DK but given 5 years and a billion to spend, Bruce would have won more than the substandard manager we have to suffer for the next at least one year.
Bet if we asked Bruce he will be full of praise to our current manager and I can categorically tell you he wouldn’t have won more.
I suggest we look at the clubs who change their managers on a regular basis and how that has worked out for them.
Everton, spuds, chelsea, leeds, southampton and manure are prime examples of what regularly changing the manager brings since MA took charge.
The cost of replacing managers, his staff and employing new ones is mind
boggling, as manure will testify.
Meanwhile, liverpool stuck with Klopp, alongside Newcastle and Howe, the results of patience and faith are plain to see.
I’m still not convinced about MA, but why would the club give him a two year contract extension if they didn’t believe in him and thus support him?
These upcoming two seasons will see if they are correct, but I’m of the opinion that, unless MA makes the decision himself, we will have to see if he delivers.
Let’s not forget, we’re in the last eight of the CL and still second in the table and have been the only club to challenge the dominance of city115 for the last two seasons.
We have been the only club to challenge the dominance yet it’s Liverpool who are taking the trophy home this season.
Based on what I have seen these past 5 years that’s all we are going to remain under Arteta. I bet you we will keep challenging and it will be Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man utd and perhaps Aston Villa and Forest who will win trophies.
Indeed HH, it looks like pool will win the PL this season, but I said the last two seasons.
Just a thought for you though, we haven’t lost to any of the six teams you mention in the PL this season, despite the injuries that we have had…. also many more than any of the six you mention… and we only have pool to play!!
Nail on head Ken. Summed up perfectly 👍
Got to keep hammering the nails home HD!! 🔨
So true Ken. I often wonder how Liverpool would have coped if they were without Salah and VVD for months on end 🤔
Not allowed to mention that … it’s called making excuses HD
I am so sorry SueP, my sincere apologies 😉
Be best if we quickly recognize the bandwagons as it’s expected of us fan to have an unrivaled support for our darling club.
@ken1945
You remind me of elder Tony Attwood, who has passion for Analytics. Yes, such could give you facts for debates and arguments, then a hiding place, BUT NOT SOLVING OBVIOUS AND EVEN, SIMPLE PROBLEMS.
These clubs changing managers are not stupid. When a coach has become too comfortable with having full boardroom support, and couldn’t become instinctive and failing at the same thing, thus become the problem not the solution.
Before now, many seasons past, Chelsea, was letting Mourinho go, couldn’t remember vividly the scenarios again, but brought in manager who didn’t stay for long and were winning everything they wanted to win.
Look at Liverpool, Klopp was convinced, he might not win the League besides the one by default for Covid19 reasons, he left. Now a different manager came, who is on the way to do it, simply on the field, and that’s what Liverpool wants.
I will be interested in Analytics of Nott Forest goings this season, from Lower league, in two or three seasons, they are shooting for the coveted Top-Four trophy.
I won’t cry for Arteta failures, from the beginning the owner knew why he was hired
So are you saying that your second paragraph is how you see Mikel Arteta at this moment in time RicSAAlao?
I see no sign of our board not backing him, or the players either come to that.
In fact, the complete opposite, hence the new contract.
. As for your reference to Untold Arsenal and Tony Attwood, I used to spend my time reading and commenting on that site and JustArsenal and I recommend any Arsenal fan to check it out.
Analytics? Well, can you argue against any of the clubs I gave examples of, both for and against standing by their managers?
@Ken1945
I am not too oppose your point of view, I am just saying all fantastic facts are historic informations, you turn to after disappointment for comfort and psychological coping.
Management is decision making, on the go, what’s to be done in a “rolling budget ” business sense situation. So a manager fully backed by the Board, wouldn’t need to look back for excuses from historic facts.
Ken, please I don’t like debate. I a man of few words.
@RicSAAlao Except that they are not “Aretate failures”.
What he has done in rebuilding the club is a success. Compare it to Man Utd, Spurs etc and see how it *can* turn out.
There are no guarantees. 2nd in the PL 2 years in a row is pretty darned good from where Arsenal were not long ago, QF of CL.. SF of league cup. Glass half full to me – more than half in fact.
@Ken
One reason is that the Board realise that Arsenal is still in a rebuilding phase. A way to go yet – some things can’t be 100% planned, it depends on… who was it who said “Events, dear boy”?
E.g. Someone shows long-term injury woes, slows down, loses form, can’t learn new skills, wants to run down contract. Seemed to be part of the project’s future, but now need to be replaced (e.g. Tierney, Jesus, Zinchenko).
Or people no longer needed can’t be sold so try to send them loan then try to sell the next season. Many variables… not an exact science.
Neutral, all that you say makes sense, but how long does the rebuilding take?
One could say that Arsene was rebuilding once again, or that Unai wasn’t given enough time or the capability as coach to rebuild.
So how many seasons do you give Mikel, or could one argue that, once a top striker is signed, his rebuild is over and we should judge him over the next two seasons?
“So how many seasons do you give Mikel”
For what? He’s already done enough to keep going. The club is back challenging for honours and that’s all anyone can ask.
The striker issue isn’t seen the same way by everyone – lots of top clubs play without a recognised striker. City did for years, pre Halaand, Liverpool largely do now – even Salah is a winger.
But when you look at the people still to move on, you cannot say that the rebuild is done. Many of them were probably part of an interim stage – Zinc, Jorginho, possibly Tierney was in the “hope he might learn and be part of the end game”. Some are getting old such as Partey and again, Jorginho.
There’s a way to go yet. But whatever else may be true, for me MA doesn’t need to win anything to be able to stay as manager, he just needs to keep doing what he’s doing.
Worth adding that the owners are business men, they care about the club’s re-sale value, they don’t care about trophies (except where thay add value)…
And perhaps to some extent what they can get from it in the meantime, although they don’t seem to be paying themselves a lot like the Glazers do at ManU.
By that measure, MA has added to Arsenal’s value as a club.
Neutral, so you are content to be “challenging for honours” then, even though there you can’t give a timescale?
So, with five seasons gone, only two of which saw us “challenging for honours” as you put it, your content to have no timescale for actually achieving any honours?
We might just as well say to Mikel “you have a job for life” as long as your “challenging for honours”…. meanwhile, you’ll get another £700 million plus to keep trying!!
That’s not what fans can “only ask for” and I don’t believe either Mr Kronkie or Mikel honours and not just be challenging for them. Arteta would want them to be content with either.
It’s my opinion that our owner gave MA a two year extension to his contract and that he has that timescale to deliver said honours.
Of course the owners want value for their outlay, one doesn’t need to be told that simple fact…. they would also want to see a profit, something that hasn’t happened since MA took over as manager.
In summary (and in my opinion) the contract extension of two years is the time limit for Mikel to actually deliver.
The failure to sign a striker was a direct response to the money already spent and, in some circumstances, wasted.
Of course, it could happen as early as the CL trophy being won this season and I sincerely hope it does.
Ken1945
It’s so difficult to decide at what point Arteta should be relieved of his duties (or not) on the basis of winning something versus regularly challenging for honours.
Being careful what you wish for versus giving someone else a crack.
Your post rightly pointed out that as long as Arteta was challenging for honours he could end up having a job for life. Over the years I’ve read your posts, echoed by Durand as well, that Arteta should be judged by Wenger’s record. Is it fair to say that AW would still be at the helm if he had kept the club in the top4 and Arteta would be plying his trade elsewhere?
That would seem to be the case SueP.
However, one must also remember that Arsene was actually winning trophies in the form of the fa cup, not just “challenging for honours”.
One could interprete that as not wanting MA to continue what he’s been doing, as it’s nowhere near as good as what AW was doing.
But without having any idea of what the owners have, if any, targeted Mikel with over a given period, how can we possibly judge him?
We didn’t challenge for honours this season domestically
Wait and see In Europe I guess
Not true Dan, as we’re still challenging for the PL title – just as we have for the last two seasons.
In my opinion being 12 points behind league leaders in March is not challenging for the title
Remember manure and the bookies paying out, only for us to win the league Dan?
Did you feel the same then?
We are not playing well enough to do that
Dan,
👍😉
I’m sure Ken1945 will have his own view but Chelsea under Abramovitch was good at the revolving door hiring and firing of coaches. He also didn’t care about the cost of doing so and spent heavily in every aspect. It was his baby
When Mansour entered the fray and started spending it took a while to win but what really made the difference was having the foresight and financial clout to hire Pep Guardiola. He won in his second season and has won 6 premier league titles with Klopp as piggy in the middle.
My view is that Klopp was rebuilding when Liverpool wobbled and they regained their form to the point that it would have been just as likely to have been Klopp winning the league this year as Arne Slot or Arteta or Guardiola It took a rare miscalculation by Pep in last summer’s window for the league not to be hard fought by 3 clubs now. I believe that without the injuries and red cards, Arsenal would have been in a very strong position to lift the title or at least be very close again
In answer to your point about refreshing the manager, I think it’s possible to keep a manager for too long but I’m not sure that for most league clubs that chopping and changing brings stability Fergie was the embodiment of a winning mentality in a similar way to Pep – both of whom were not part of the revolving door approach. Without wishing to bring wrath on me, Arsene Wenger ultimately stayed a bit too long. Getting the right balance is the tricky part. In Ferguson’s case I think he knew that he’d reached the end and could see what was coming so retired on a high.
But SueP, Abramovitch had no problem regarding money – he spent his ill gotten gains like confetti and only the sheik money rivalled that kind of spending back in 2005 through to his demise.
This, plus the building of the Emirates, was what Wenger was competing with and yet, he always finished in the top four and/or won fa cups right up until his last season.
I forgot that Fergie was on the cusp of being sacked until that fa cup win saved him and, surely, that’s yet another example (if not the best) of giving a manager time?
Great points ken1945, you as well SueP
Ken1945
I wasn’t trying to demean Wenger’s achievements but rather trying to put across that the revolving door worked for Chelsea because RA had the money to just keep getting the best of everything. AW was the face of redevelopment of the ground due to his history with the club and it was a job well done by him.
My overriding view is that stability works out best overall. The Chelsea model under RA only worked for the reasons I gave above, regardless of how he funded it. I stand by my view that staying too long makes it harder for those following on. Moyes was not a bad manager- he just got the short straw after SAF. As much as Emery fell short, it was a similar situation- following on from a club legend.
@Ken
The difference was that Abramovic started in 2003 when there was no FFP, in fact he was the cause of FFP being needed.
City iirc had less time before FFP, but the two combined made people realsie they needed rules about spending or it would be a case of buying trophies.
We are still seeing the knock-on effects of that now. City and Chelsea stashed a lot of profits from those days and (until City this season), only needed to buy the odd player to fill rare/small gaps in their squads.
Surprise, Surprise, and there you are.
Fergie stayed so long, and was building for years, almost about to be sacked, do you remember or read about it. He was never in short supply of fund, never responsible for funding any project, and copied Le Prof signing more overseas players.
Pep came and copied Abrimovich in spending spree, until the current investigation.
AW came in won things from first 18months, then, spearheaded two projects, the training ground and the Emirates Stadium which he was responsible how the payments was to be made, which was ACTUALLY WHY HE HAD TO STAY, HE WAS THE GUARANTEE FOR THE FUNDING. Now you’re said he was here too long. Guess you are dropping a single song for that already.
The last few years he stayed too long, some of you ignored how many FA Cup won.
Fergie was buying overseas players long before Wenger came to The Arsenal. As for Fergie not being in short supply of funds, he threatened to quit as Man Utd manager in the early part of this century if the club didn’t back him in the transfer market.
Wenger wasn’t responsible for how the repayments for the new stadium was paid, that was down to the BoD.
3 FA Cups in 13 years isn’t really that special.
Better than 1 FA cup in 6 Years though HD
It’s 1 in 5 years DK.
Yet the banks wouldn’t agree the loans unless Wenger agreed to stay at the club for an agreed term HD – now why do you think that was, has any other club been forced to agree such a condition and what does it say about Arsene Wenger himself?
ken1945 – Sorry if I’m briefly breaking in here, but it’s called recognition of a living legend and spoke volumes for same when it came to having a successful business venture.
Exactly BB and while HD and I agree on many things Arsenal (and he’s corrected me many times as well!!) we disagree on the incredible way he transformed our club, even up and until he left the club.
I look forward to his reply and, by the way, this is a great debating forum, so no need to apologise, just join in my friend.
Ken, I’ve never disagreed that the Bank (RBS) wanted him to stay for a set time, what I disagreed with was that he had to sign a 5 year contract. From the research I’ve done, the longest contract he’s signed at The Arsenal was a 3 year extension.
Let’s agree on the fact that the bank insisted Arsene had to be our manager before the loans were agreed then HD – why do you think they found it necessary to include that in this multi million deal?
Stability would be my guess Ken.
I wonder what the club would’ve done if we had been in a relegation battle during those years 🤔
Nothing to do with the man himself then HD?
We were never in a relegation situation, not only under Arsene, but going right back to the Billy Wright era, although I do believe we flirted with relegation fears under Mikel for a short while.
Ken, the last 2 seasons under Bertie Mee, when we finished 16th and 17th were relegation battles. Also the last season of George Graham, it wasn’t until Easter that we were mathematical safe.
Which season under Mikel do you mean ?
Can’t remember which of the first three it was HD, but we were very near the bottom of the league, if not actually bottom.
George finished 12th I believe, despite the great defence that Arsene brought back to perform again.
Bertie Mee I agree on, even though we had points to spare come the end of the season.
Looking back though HD, Arsene’s teams were always top four and / or winning fa cups right up until his final season – what a legacy that man has left for our club and I really want Mikel to equal or beat that legacy – will he be able to?
OT. What a performance from the Arsenal women tonight!!
Let’s hope the men can equal their result!!
Ken, I believe the season you are on about was when we were bottom after the first 3 games. We then climbed the league table to finish 5th, just missing out on CL.
There was a season under Wenger, after we lost 8-2 at Man Utd, were we were in the bottom 3, but finished the season in the top 4.
I must correct you on Wenger always finishing in the top 4 apart from his last season. His last 2 seasons we finished 5th and then 6th. Still a remarkable record, all things taken in consideration.
Only time and patience will tell if Mikel can equal what the previous manager achieved, fingers crossed that he can, or even better it.
As for the women last night, top performance from them. Russo was so unlucky to not score a hat trick. Hopefully the men can get the same result over the 2 legs 🤞
The year we finished 5th, we won the fa cup and that’s when Arsene should have retired.
You got your open top bus parade, so you should have been happy!!
Yep, it was the season we were bottom after three games and it took us a while to climb out of the relegation zone.
Why have you taken my remarks about AW as an unfounded criticism? I don’t think that he deserved the treatment he got; like Fergie, both men had given their all for their clubs. Utd needed a reboot as did Arsenal and neither man was getting any younger and it was time to let go. That’s the point. A younger man’s game. Fergie knew when to bow out when he got his last league title. Time was against AW imo and as so many others have said, his last FA cup win should have seen him retire on his terms and without the awful toxicity that followed.
Not sure if this was intended for me, but to compare Fergy at manure and Arsene at Arsenal is like chalk and cheese.
New stadium, money, Fergie time, selling of star players, first foreign manager, Arsene who?
As to staying too long, the club asked him to stay and offered him a new two year contract – he loved the club and accepted it…. what happened then with a section of our fan base, was sickening to watch on a personal basis and it seems to be happening once again I’m afraid to say.
It wasn’t intended for you Ken1945. In any case, the comparison between AW and Fergie wasn’t about anything other than longevity versus short termism and I wasn’t pitching one against the other, apart from my opinion that Fergie knew when to bow out and AW should have done the same for the reasons I gave in a reply to you earlier. The fact that he loved the club and was offered another deal doesn’t alter the fact that staying on was not his best decision. I genuinely don’t see suggesting that is akin to a personal attack, rather looking at the way football was moving, younger managers and new ideas etc. but I seem to have hit an unexpected nerve and one that was not intended
I don’t take anything personally SueP, especially when one is debating.
Arsene has indicated that he himself now believes he stayed to long and I agree with him. He should have gone the season before he did in my opinion.
But I fail to see how this man can be compared to anyone, because he revelutionised the way we saw and played our football in England.
On top of that, he moulded our club into a side that was recognised as one that upheld everything good in the game.
Mikel Arteta recognised this, while bringing in his own brand of football and that’s where any comparison should end.
I didn’t see your views attacking Arsene, just gave my twopenneth on the situation.
👍
@RicSAAlao 🤙🤙😎
Click bait article.
Headline says “reasons” to replace MA… then the article doesn’t bother to give any. 🤣
Some waffle at the end about “having a young and talented squad” and being close to winning stuff in recent seasons doesn’t add up to anything close to a reason to change the manager any more than it adds up to a reason to change the ballboy or change your underwear.
Utterly feeble.
The article is simply reflecting the views of some glory hunters who assume that you win titles just by sacking the manager every few years.
@David, I had to chuckle at this humdinger, “If you consider Arteta’s peers and the views of respected journalists around the world you will find that he is considered one of the top managers in world football.” One FA cup with Emery’s team, ZERO trophies after spending a fortune while pocketing huge wages and that makes Arteta one of the top managers in world football? Do me a favour! 😀
That’s the problem Dave, there are fans who refuse to see either the negatives or the positives regarding Mikel – that’s when we get these ridiculous Arteta in and out brigades, as happened when Arsene was our manager.
Of course he’s not one of the top managers in the world, it takes more than five seasons to prove that – neither is he a damp squid, as two seasons of running city115 to the very end proves.
Why fans can’t acknowledge both sides of the coin, is bewildering to me!!
Arteta is one of the top managers in world football. There is no “both sides of the coin” here. The idea that the only way to determine the best managers is by their list of titles is reductive and quite silly.
It is also worth noting that Arteta is not the only manager with a relatively limited list of honours who is respected as a manager.
There are no “ridiculous Arteta in brigades” as you put it. However, there are certainly some quite absurd “Arteta out” discussions which include the wish-washy points made in the article.
😂
So name the world’s best managers who have a relatively limited list of honours akin to Mikel Arteta David.
Of course there are two sides of the coin, your presenting one quite deliberately here and you constantly argue against those who disagree completely disagree with you!!
You find ANY criticism of MA as “absurd” which makes you 100% a “Arteta in brigade”!!
Okay I give you Sam Allardise, pochettino, Sarri, Graham potter, David Moyes and to some extent Diego Simeone. Diego been at the other side of Madrid so long winning few and I will include our great Arsene as he only ever once made it to the UCL final. You can argue this the more you want but I can tell they won few and was regarded so highly. We still riding with the coach as he’s still with our darling club until otherwise. Mind you I will not switch Mikel currently with any of the above mentioned.
The only ones who makes any sense is Arsene and Diego, as they are considered world class.
To say that Potter, Allerdice, Poch or Miyes are world class is ridiculous.
You only need to look in the mirror to see a member of the “ridiculous Arteta in brigades” lol
Unless they have Carlo Ancelotti or Diego Someone in mind and agreed, replacing Arteta would be suicide at this point. These are his players set up to play his way. Changing the manager now means another period of uncertainty and rebuilding that no one wants and as I have said repeatedly, unless the club starts going backwards the owners are never going to replace him. It’s just a business to them and he represents stability and forecast able revenue. It’s good business.
@Ben
Play his way. So he set up the team of players as robots now, and keeping the code in his “Blackbox”.
What’s his way really ?
Actually, I am not calling for his sack, but on the fact that football his a game of talent, you CANNOT MICROMANAGE the passes of players in a live match. This will kill the performance of the players. You set up the team tactically, not micromanagement of passes, because players on the field are DUTY BOUND TO COMMUNICATE BETWEEN THEMSELVES.
And the fact THAT, for this long, we only see occasional individual brilliance, that are far between, BUT THAT is what should form the CHARACTER of the team, the will make all the players mentality up for it and trusted.
Arteta clearly prefer possession-based controlled matches. And I can see reasoning in that. Sustained possession creates fatigue amongst your opponents, and constantly chasing the ball is as mentally draining as it is physically.
However, possession needs an end point and this is where the individual talent should shine. Unfortunately aside from Nwaneri every pass or move is usually very predictable. And I am including Saka in that. We all know, and therefore opponents know, that he will take the ball and drive 15 yards towards the fullback before stopping and passing back to Ben White, who plays it into Odegaard who chips it over for Saka who has run in behind the defender. Knowing it’s going to happen and stopping are 2 different things but it’s predictable. This is why we struggle to score goals.
Declan Rice is an incredible athlete but he is not an attacking midfielder and whilst he can go box-to-box very easily given his supreme athleticism he lacks the finesse and guile needed to properly play that role.
Arteta has assembled a great backline and a great first choice midfielder but upfront (apart from Saka) we are woefully inept and apart from a plethora of fullbacks we lack squad depth.
Anyway, I digress and forgot what point I was trying to make. Arteta isn’t going anywhere and there is sound logic to that. Regardless of how awful it is to watch at times sacking a manager who has finished 2nd (probably) three years in a row sounds like madness, because it is.
@Ben
It has nothing to do with sanity at all.
Circumstances as made it looks like traditionally, The Arsenal, changes Manager, ONLY when it’s unavoidable especially, morality or image, and even Le Prof ‘s leaving had nothing to do with performance, but he was becoming too ” preeminent ”
Why I feel the reluctance in Arsenal is a tradition now and not performance is, in the 1997 or 98, Chelsea was trying to raise their competition, brought in player, Gullit, who was player- coach , who was sacked after winning FA Cup , for not wanting to transit to manager that quickly, wished to play more. He was replaced immediately, by retiring his player , Vialli, he left even sooner than expected. AND, they have not stopped changing managers and are winning things.
All before Roman came.
So to me, it has very little to do with stability but the Board’s philosophy or tradition. DEFINITELY VERY FAR FROM MADNESS
I found your remarks that “they have not stopped changing managers and are winning things .. All before Roman came” a rather confusing statement.
Chelsea returned to Div 1 in 1988 having had a pretty torrid time for years. Ruud Gullit started a revival, which Vialli built upon and Ranieri became the last coach/manager before the arrival of RA.
Prior to Abramovitch arriving at Chelsea there was a 16/17 year gap between Dave Sexton winning the FA cup and European Cup winners cup and Gullit winning the FA cup in 1997. So whilst they did have a regular turnover of managers, it can be argued that such was the club’s lack of success that they were always searching for what was lacking to be turned into winning something.
The Abramovitch era brought about numerous managerial changes and great success due in no small part to the amount of money he threw at the club during a time when financially the rules were not as they are now. It was an unusual policy but he was in a position to hire very successful managers and maintain the success. Paying off one manager and then getting in the next top one was a costly exercise all the same, but it does support your theory that Chelsea are predisposed to embark upon the managerial merry go round. I would say it is more usual to part company with a manager when the going gets tough and not give him very long to make an impact.
Arsenal has long been considered a very well run club. It’s not about immense highs and then horrible lows but more about stability. For the long term my view is that this is a preferable policy.
@Ken 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
@SueP
It’s good to know that you agreed, it worked from 1997 , for a club, Chelsea, that wants to win something to take the risk, cut their losses early. Di Matteo came in for temporary, from onset it was clear.