Earlier today on Just Arsenal I posted an article from Anko about the Wenger In or Wenger Out discussion, and we have had many responses, but I particularly liked this one from Storm, who gives a very balanced alternative view. Read it and decide for yourself…..
The issue is not Wenger in or Wenger out. by Storm
I have noticed that not all club fans are true supporters. They turn into haters the moment things go off the rails. We need to assess what changes need to be made and then have the courage to see it through – win, lose or draw. A team is not the manager/coach, or one star player, or the board of directors or club owners. It is all of those individuals, including the supporters of the team, no matter how emotionally charged they are at any given stage.
As a default supporter of the team after my mom’s passing last year, I support the Arsenal with as much passion and intensity as any fanatic in the world. I am gutted when they deliver a poor performance on the pitch and elated when they triumph in the face of adversity. When Petr Cech made that save against Troy Deeney I was ecstatic. It felt like he finally got retribution for the early season blunder.
No one can say that their team is perfect 100% of the time. Yes, we have had a nightmare season and it can only improve from here. We need to have faith and give the team the support they need in spite of our feelings for or against the coach. It’s about the team.
If you get negativity spewed at you all the time, are you going to do or be better for it? If you receive encouragement and motivation are you going to want to do or be better? Many Arsenal players have lost the plot, to be honest. They have a coach who supports them regardless of how many bad performances they turned in or how many injuries they’ve had.
Yes, Arsene Wenger trusts his team because he believes in them. Shouldn’t we do the same? If we can have players taking pride in wearing the kit and look hungry for victory when they show up for a game, half the battle is won. To be a winner you have to believe you can win. If the players can stand together and play the game as a team, instead of waiting to see what happens with the opposition, they have a really good chance of success. It’s clear this season is all but over and with a good game plan we can cement a terrific start to the next season.
Let’s focus on the basics and get behind our team. I support Arsenal, win, lose or draw. Do you?
Storm
The probleme with some fans is that they are not aware that they are helping our oppenents by their stupid protests and negativity.Wenger is at fault in many aspects but he’s the manager right now
Of course there is no relationship between team performance and fan protesting is there.
Can we expect City fans to protest?
Of course not !
and why?
Because City are not 33 points behind Arsenal are they?
Wenger is at fault for everything and the sooner he goes the better.
And I cannot wait…
The problem with some fans is that they are not even into football, but just watch the game to kill off their empty time. Supporters should be firstly be football fans first and then Arsenal fans.
This creates a proper fan base, and Arsenal lacks this. Arsenal do have to many fans who lack the concept of progress and ambition. Do you guys understand this or no? No other team holds a manger higher then the club it self. I am rlly into football and do watch many games outside Arsenal and i can say that i have never seen a fans base and a club like ours.
Arsenal fans are fickle, easy to delude, and lack ambition. Football fans are not known to be the smartest, but Arsenal fans take the cake here.
Akb- Grown ups playing like fan boys. Wengers private little groupies.
When Wenger came Arsenal and Manure had the same amounts of titles. Manure today have overcome Liverpool for the best team in England, and Chelsea has overcome Arsenal in being the 3 best.
Today Arsenal are closer to Spurs and Everton then Manure and co. Therefore you guys can go f your self and get used to reality and hide in shame.
Chelsea have not got more. And just because a team does great it does not give Arsenal a divine right to match it. When utd won theirs we played as well as could be expected, it is the Liverpools Chelsea’s and others who done nothing to stop them. It was also bloody fergie time most of the time, we had to go invincible to beat them and their fergie time calls. Then came the money, cities outlay is scaring teams before they even reach the pitch. I don’t hear so many people saying that you only have to kick City as they don’t like the rough stuff, what’s that all about. I’m all for a manager change, but am not gonna talk like we’d have done any better if done ages ago, wtf knows, we’d have just as likely won less. As for your grown up remark, he had a very large and very loyal fan base for a long time, the stadium was behind him up until a season or two ago when online sh*t seeped into the stands slowly but surely. And thanks to them fans we have Auby and Laca along with Ozil Mkhit and some new comers in the summer, if it been left to the kiddies online (your theory) we’d not have a pot to piss in.
Well,I support Arsenal to the fullest maximum and it’s normal to lose a match or a couple of matches BUT I don’t and will not embrace 14 years of failure and I’m against a particular being who can’t learn from his past mistakes.
WENGER OUT.
Yes Storm, I support Arsenal.
Arsenal Forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am with you 100% on this issue. I have been, as most of us have, disappointed in the teams performances on many occasions this season. I have though, been even more disappointed with the supporters performance. It has at times been embarrassing. I think a trip to Newcastle or even Bournemouth would be a lesson for the so called supporters, who don`t really support the team, but seem to act like spoiled kids in a sweet shop. An active and loyal fan base is an essential ingredient for a successful team. It truly can be the twelfth man. It can lift spirits when the team is down, and make them feel more a sense of accomplishment when they do well. It is my belief that the “Wenger out” brigade have started this by protesting far too much, and in a disrespectful way. I think, like you, that negativity brings more negativity. True supporters do not cut and run when things go wrong, for what ever reason. My advice to them is to either grow a pair, and support the team, or go and find another team to bring down.
An interesting point about the ‘real’ away fans being more supportive.
But how come our away form is rubbish and the home form is brilliant? Discuss….
well it’s because Arsenal is currently a joke of a club endowed with mediocrity.
Ken Locke,
I find this post a beacon of light. Everything Storm says is what I believe.
No gooner can be satisfied with this years performances, some of which have been diabolical to say the least.
When Wenger goes (May18th is predicted) whoever comes in to take his place will be supported by me.
Simply because he is the Arsenal manager/coach.
If he has a season like this one, I will still support him verbally at the Emirates, but criticise him on sites like this in a constructive way.
I think there are many “home” supporters who have followed the club whilst clocking up thousands of miles.
Away supporters (who I respect unreservedly) aren’t the only real supporters, but they do represent the club in their travels superbly.
Admin, if we knew the answer to your question we would be ina much better position league wise.
Ken I can only agree with you in part.To me it matters not if fans only go to home games or are unable to attend for any number of reasons.A fan is a fan is a fan.
I suppose I am fortunate that neither time or expense prevents me from attending very nearly every game whether at home away or in Europe.I believe you would find that Wengers level of support on the travels is most probably lower than you might expect it to be.The “away fans” are the ones that witness first hand the games in which we have been humiliated and I’m not just talking about this season.For most it’s the most important issue in their lives to commit to following the team on their travels.I know some that can’t afford to attend both Home and away so they commit to away games only.The cost of each away ticket now is £26 for Away Scheme members and so is not unreasonably priced.The cost of travel and the time involved is a big issue to some especially midweek if work is an issue.
Are these fans (of which I’m one) entitled to expect their own views above others?No of course not.Every fan has a right to their view.But at the same time every fan has the right to object to another fans view of different from their own.
Driving home from Swansea on a cold wet January evening on my own soaking wet and quite obviously pretty pissed off with the result and non performance I never once thought about not going to any upcoming game.Nor I bet did anyone else that was there.But it does fuel the passion a bit when after arriving home and having only 3 hours sleep before getting on a train to London to go to work.But it’s what I do and so DO many others and I bet so WISH many others they could too.Iys worth it when our manager wins 64 FA Cups in 3 Seasons 132 Comunity Shields in 4 Seasons ………
?
Phil,
We are not children, aka the pires post, and I would expect to have a debate with you that makes sense.
I read your views and replies with interest because of what you have reiterated above.
Your passion, love and knowledge of the club is obvious and one I share just as passionately.
I cannot commit to the away scheme simply because I have a wife who thinks I spend enough time drooling over Arsenal as it is. I wish I could.
So when you talk about driving home from Swansea in the rain, rest assured I have done the same from home games. My journey takes approx. 9 hours so plenty of time to reflect and despair this season.
My average cost when travelling down from Scotland for a home game is Just under £200. The cost of my season ticket this season was £380 (about). My daughter and grandson have tickets at the North Bank, so in my view we are a commited Arsenal family.
My grandson has the same views as you, my daughter is still a complete Wenger fan and you know my views by know. We discuss and disagree every single game, but we do not try and belittle each other, act superior, take the mightier than thou attitude portrayed by some on this site BUT most importantly we are committed gooners.
The post above was very enlightening and then Phil, you come out with the crass Wenger comments. You are of course entitled to it, but I wonder why you feel you have to do it?
Everyone on this site knows your views and feelings about the man. Period.
Everyone should know my views as well. I don’t go on and on about it, but try to explain my views in a constructive way and challenge if I think something is wrong.
Do you realise how you could actually explain and describe to the younger gooners who want to learn about your experiences? I picked up that you had met with Tony adams at different functions. How interesting that would be to hear about.
I have no wish to have confrontation with you, rather debate with you.
However, I found your remarks about Tony Adams and Wenger actually insulting to a fellow gooner. You will probably reply to this with “wibble” or “i couldn’t care less” or some other throw away message. That’s your perogative.
We differ in our opinions, I would like to think that I have always treated you with respect, even when I took offense to your Tony Adams post.
Maybe when Wenger goes, the supporters will band together and support the club again,but the rifts are certainly deep.
I will now wait for the sarcasm etc but hey as a certain man once said “it don’t bother me pal”.
Ken-Differences aside there is no doubt you and your family are committed fans. That is the equivalent of me having a season ticket at Cowdenbeath and travelling to each game. You and your family I know will have the total respect of everyone for the sacrifices you must all make and that is not including the financial costs you incur.You and thousands of others of course as not everyone lives in Drayton Park.
Once again my total respect
I’ve got to say, having been a home and away fan for many years, but not so much these days, that I admire the pair of you for your fantastic support. Ken, for he’s incredible journey to every home game from Scotland and Phil for he’s many trips away from home, be it in England or Europe. The fact you’re both not spring chickens makes it even more outstanding, True Gooners
Nice post, but we’ve been through this entire ordeal before. This season is not an anomaly. Fanbase is frustrated because theyve tried everything, including getting behind the team. How else do you think Wenger has kept his job all this time? There’s a breaking point, and it seems these past two seasons have been it for a lot of people. A lot of this could’ve been avoided with better ownership, and if AW had decided to go on his own. I don’t really know what some people want from the fans? A lot pay high ticket prices every week to see the players not put in the effort, along with poor coaching. Fans deserve to have their voices heard. It’s easy to say get behind the team and believe in them, but again, we’ve all been down that road before and we’ve all blindly believed in the club at some point and it’s not been working out. Time for fans to drive out this poor management and help the club go in a different direction.
The reason why Wenger has been able to stay at arsenal for so long is because he is a demagogue, he gives excuses that the majority believe like stadium debts, FIFA fair play, youth development, refs and what not. For me I support Wenger because I believe he has vision in football that’s why he has been handicapped by the board in terms of spending big,but he never took issue with that.The future of football is in the self sustaining model and many will realise this many years later .The fact is all the teams that won the EPL since the invincible era save for the Leicester fairytale actually bought success including fargie in his last season he snatched our best striker.That’s explains why arsenal is still in a good financial position in europe dispite winning few trophies ,when you buy success it comes with losses ie high wages transfer fees and insane transfer fees
i disagree buddy,when you spend big you have more chances of being successeful in the pitch and you get therfore profits off the pitch…that’s where Wenger is wrong
Like you Storm i support the team and always will whoever is the Manager.However when that Manager has ceased to be competent and competitive at the highest level and has scant regard for the people who have effectively paid his substantial wages for 2 decades surely those fans have a right to vent their frustrations when they are witnessing the decline of “their” team.Unless pressure is brought to bear on the Board and Management how can we hope to prevent the slide towards mediocrity?
Look, if i didn’t care that much about the club or support it, I wouldn’t give two ****s about who plays for the team or who manages it and if the manager is moving the team in the right direction. It’s the complete opposite; I love the club and want to see success and am still rooting for them no matter what, but there is a definite problem that needs to be addressed and that IS the manager.
Players have come and gone, superstars and average players and we get the same results time and again and are now moving backward. There has only been one constant this whole time and it is the manager and it is clear that he doesn’t motivate the players or have any tactical awareness and his managing philosophy is a failed one. It’s precisely because I love this club that I want to see a new manager brought in. I still support the club and the players, but not the manager. You can’t. No other successful club would. That’s all there is to it.
I am not sure what exactly is Storm’s point? Just because we’re very negative about our team, or other fans are about their’s, that doesn’t mean any of us are not real supporters? Are fans not aloud to protest, be unhappy, or want change especially given how much money they give to their respective clubs? I don’t buy that!
I agree that all fans should be a lot more patient, but in regards to Arsenal fans, we’ve been beyond every single level of patience. The right response for Arsenal fans at the moment SHOULD be of frustration, and anger. People like Ty off Arsenal Fan TV are not REAL fans in my opinion, because he’s content with the situation. He wants Wenger to stay, before thinking of what’s best for the club. The club, and the fans, should always come first!
I feel it’s the protesters that are more of fan than any of us. They’re willing to take so much abuse, to try and force change, or at least highlight the chronic problems within our club. I honestly believe that the only reason we FINALLY saw a formation change from Wenger last season, was because of the protesters. I am not saying that protesting is always needed, but it was for us, given the state of affairs at the club.
Im not relly sure Storm himself knows what his point is…
“We need to assess what changes need to be made and then have the courage to see it through……. ”
I JUST CANT BELIEVE that people are still assesing whats going on at AFC.
My my my
On the other hand ..Admins point of reposting others comments is lack of topics…and its clear he is assessing problems at afc too….
Arsenal are 33 points behind City
Eleven wins behind.
And Arsenal fans are STILL debating whether Wenger is the man for the job.
Needs defenders buys strikers
Needs strikers buys midfielders.
And people still think he is the man for the job.
PATHETIC…
As much as I dislike Spurs fans they garner far more respect than Arsenal fans.
Arsenal fans and Arsene Wenger deserve one another.
One is a specialist in failure and the other has so little ambition its happy to accept that failure with the hope that the dithering, senile old fart will change his ways – the same ways he has chosen for nearly a quarter of a century.
Arsenal are finished – no club can survive a manager and fans like that..
calling a legend of the club an “old fart” is pathetic……
ugh, who cares.
Hang on a minute here.Is this from the same person who called a Club Legend in Tony Adams a NOTORIOUS DRUNK?
And now you are digging out someone for daring to call your beloved Wenger a name YOU disagree with?
Honestly Pal you don’t half make it easy for us.
“Me” Why you coating the fans, I don’t know what posts you read, but I think you’ll find the majority of people on this site want the same as you, Wenger out. And what have Spurs fans got to do with it, their happy with their manager and happy with their form although the fact they’ve still not won a trophy for years might be a problem.
I think the article starts with a bias by calling some fans not true fans based on them voicing their dissatisfaction with the state of affairs. They are not doing so based on a game or two. It is based on poor performance in the premier league and champions league over years. People who challenge th status quo still love and support the club and the team. It is disrespectful to say that they are not true fans. Dear author, please respect others point of view and their emotions for this club before making such a statement.
This article is a load of nonsense. Who bought the under achieving Players? Who picks the team to go onto the pitch? Who is, supposed to, motivate the players? Who has been treating the fans as imbeciles? Who has told the fans lies for at least the last 10 years showing his arrogance while doing It? I’ll tell you. Wenger? He should be kicked out with no preference ever made to him presently or in the the future or ever again. He should be escorted to the door and kicked ou now!!!!!
Pray 4 Wilshere
to scam more money from Arsenal? His contract negotiations are hilarious. Club won’t budge from their offer and rightly so haha.
The comments on here are ridiculous, blaming the Wenger out brigade for bad performances when it’s the senile old fool who brought every single player we have to the club apart from the only two inform players we have Mki and Abameyang. We are so far off the top 4 it’s frightening and with Wenger in charge it’s going to be impossible. The man is a curse and so are the fans who blindly follow him and believe his every word. The way he talks you would think he hasn’t been getting paid and he’s doing us a favour being in charge when he’s in fact the cancer that is killing our beloved club. How can anyone be a manager and not understand the importance of a proper dm is beyond me. Look at Zidane he instantly promoted Casemiro into the team and look at the success they are having. Next issue is goal keeper never been prioritised off Wenger yet has been one of our downfalls since Lehman. Next is defenders why do they need to be able to pass ? We turned down brilliant defenders who could have easily helped us secure more trophies because they don’t fit the passing philosophy not signing Cahill from Bolton was beyond stupid seen as they wanted aroubd 10m at the time same can be said about getting Xhaka over Kante.
Injured midfielder Jack Wilshere out of Netherlands friendly . . .
Already???? ?
Only a matter of time 🙁
Wilshere ‘yeah bruv, I’m going’
Southgate ‘ok jack but do you not think you should hold off for a while?’
Wilshere ‘nah bruv it’s not like I got to go back and face the club for a bit’
Southgate ‘but you’re trashing Wenger?’
Wilshere ‘whatevz bruv. I’m not even seeing dude for like two weeks’
The next day
Wilshere ‘falls on grass clutching his leg’
Southgate ‘oh here we go again’
Wilshere ‘bruv I’m good’
Southgate ‘you really are not. I’m sending you back to your club’
Wilshere *gulp*
I thought missing out on the champions league & finishing below the spuds ? was just a blip… but this season the gap will be even bigger for both! This season is by far the worst we’ve had under Wenger…..
I don’t know who will be our next manager, but I’m looking forward to some exciting times ahead… and getting back to the top, which is where we belong ?
“I have noticed that not all club fans are true supporters. They turn into haters the moment things go off the rails” Really author???
You talk about every seasons or just matches against Man city this season? We have gone down and down everyday but some people see this as a positivity just to accommodate the failure Wenger?
Admins agent. He is payed to tllk such nonsense, for the sake of making others argue with him and spend more time in here.
It’s called “Devils advocate” It’s intended to create discussion
It’s amazing how fickle the keep Wenger brigade. He strings two results together and they think he is wonderfully. He is the answer to our woes. People………. he has created our woes, embarrassment , humiliation, and disasterious results.
The people who say tje traveling fans are the real fans are ignorant and stupid. As a recent red member I watch as many games as I can afford and do not have the lauxary to always travel or go to every game. Spending money to fill a dead stadium with 0 atmosphare dors not make you a real fan. How many of the home or traveling fans go and make noise and sing. Hardly any. Any team with balls out sing us and are louder. The last game I went to was the europa cup match and from the start the Milan fans were way louder. By then end we had hijacked their famous song and started singing ooooosspina!!. Says alot. We dont even have any decent songs. What do we think of tottenham??? Well who cares. We are not playing them so why sing about them. The fans need to change amd get behind other fans and the team and not point the finger. Yes wenger out but he is not the only problem or solution . Firing him wont change things. Change needs to cime frim the top to the bottom and we must start spending bwdore we fall out of top 6
managers and players come and go….
whether is it wenger, allegri, zidane, simone or etc….
if the manager dont get backed financially and sign the players he wants…..
we will still be a top 4 or 6 club….
LOL… Now top 6 is as good as winning the league …. Next season it will be top 8 … Just ask stoke fans … They haven’t won anything in years and would love to finish 6th… And still their fans support the team and stick by the manager … Oh Just a minute …
So here’s a little number by the real boss for all you AKBs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQpW9XRiyM
Ridiculous argument.
Off topic, I’m just watching a nice northern get together, with plenty of black pudding on the menu, on Sky Sports News with our northern referees checking out the VAR process at PGMOL’s headquarters with northern joker Mike Riley heading the show and what a joke it is. With not one southerner in attendance how can you ever expect to get an honest non bias decision. If it’s not a northerner refereeing it’s a northerner on the VAR machine. What chance you got.
Kenny you are not suggesting for one minute that anybody North of Gillespie Road would be part of this conspiracy theory of yours would you?If so that is a very outrageous suggestion to post-but very true.OMG can you imagine if Fergie was on the wrong end of a decision from one of those machines?
I’ll give up the conspiracy theory Phil when Fergie’s friend Mike Riley appoints a southern referee. I won’t be holding my breath.
Kenny Rolfe,
With reference to referee bias:
Can I suggest you visit “Untold Arsenal”?
They have been running a referee watchlist for quite a few seasons.
The incorrect decisions made (using their anaylisis) is incredible, but do you know what Reilly has said about the% of decisions they get right? 94%-96%
Unbelievable, with Arsenal having the most wrong decisions against them.
At least one thing this world cup has got right is NO ENGLISH REFS,
unless that has now changed.
So this guy has supported the team for one year and reckons we should all unconditionally get behind the team – come back to us in 14 years of the same old sh*t and then tell us how you feel
Ah Will-do you not listen to Pires?In the last 14 years Wenger has led the team to 368 FA Cup Victories and 2571 Comunity Shields.I this time he has had an average annual transfer budget fo £346-58pence.This is to cover transfer fees and wages.How can you dare criticise Wenger when you are not aware of the facts.Or are you related to that Notorius Alcoholic Tony Adams?
iam agunner through and through and so is evry gunner i can bet on that.we need to stop categorising our selves you are either a gunner or NOT simple as tht…..we have bn behind our manager for long time with the hope of aturn around season after season how long should back him up when clearly we can see he’s no longer the man.I have bn for a long time defending le prof saying that he isn’t the problem but upstairs is where the problem lies,but then still I’ve failed to understand how a man can be used as a tool for such a long time with out any reaction and for what benefit?………all i have come to conclude is that he is apuppet, a willing one and deserves evrything coming at him THE ONLY PROBLEM THO” HE’S TAKING ALOT OF COLLATERAL DAMAGE ALONG (ARSENAL FC)