You would have to think that Yaya Sanogo is a lot better in front of goal when he is training with the Arsenal squad, otherwise he would never get a game with the first team. But it is also clear that the lanky young Frenchman lacks confidence in front of goal during a competitive game.
Wenger has obviously seen plenty from Sanogo since he joined us from Auxerre last summer on a free transfer. And to be fair to the lad, he surprised us all when the Prof started him against Bayern Munich and Liverpool in key games last season.
And it is not just the manager who has faith in Sanogo, because his fellow countryman Mathieu Flamnini has spoken out in an Evening Standard report to defend the 21-year old after his performance at Leicester made it 16 games without a senior goal and drew heavy criticism from the fans and media alike.
Flamini said, “He’s a young player and will perform game after game. It’s important for him to play and he will become stronger and stronger.
“Yaya is a young player with a lot of qualities and game after game he will get stronger and better. If he’s part of this team it’s because he’s full of quality.
“Is he affected mentally by having not scored yet? I don’t think so. He’s a young player, he needs to play. I don’t think it’s a problem.”
I can see what Flamini is saying and do have sympathy for Sanogo. Don’t forget that he made a real difference when he came on at Wembley and helped Arsenal to end the nine year trophy drought with an FA cup trophy. But he didn’t score then and despite netting four in one game at the Emirates cup, you can see that it is affecting him. Let’s just hope that he gets off the mark sooner rather than later.
im still very disappointed and upset….
Oh Really Flamini?Can you be precise and say After how many decades.Eagerly waiting for your reply.
hes too busy randomly tackling people in the street…studs up
If it’s a spud, im ok with it.
Flamini is on CRACK
Guys can someone please answer this question:
Any quality free agent defenders we can still sign? for fuks sake, anyone?
Of course Flamini would say that…!!!
I dont think he’s lying, i just dont think he’ll do that in Arsenal anytime soon.
Sanogo needs regular playtime, which he cant get at arsenal if he keeps not scoring on his chances. In january, i reckon Sanogo AND Campbell will go on a loan to get some much needed experience.
Campbell has enough “loan” experience. His talents need to be utilized in 1st team now. Sanogo is a good extra body to have for depth. He might not have scored in the League yet, but he does work his ass off, which is more than a few others do.
We need to keep em both because they will be needed come March…
I completely agree, but obviously Wenger insists on having his buttcheeks warming the seats on the bench. If this continues, he’s better off on a loan. As for Sanogo, I dont think he’ll develop as much as we would like if he’s going to be a benchwarmer like Campbell. Sanogo is better off on a loan to a lower mid-table club to get his first goals in premier league, giving him much needed experience and confidense.
still cant believe he lead our line against bayern munich in champions league last year.
no top flight experience,
poor kid no wonder hes floppin
Sanogo might not get many more chances…im counting of welbeck to do the shining and scoring
Unfair that he has been thrust into spotlight so soon but given time and support he ll get better! Hopefully Welbeck will take some heat of him!
“He’s a young player, he needs to play.”
That’s true actually. Young players need to play. And that’s what you have the reserve team for. Young players can also be sent on loan to lower divisions where they can polish their game under less pressure. But throwing a young player straight into an FA cup semi final, then playing him in a CL knock out stage, is taking things a bit too far. If the young player is a Neymar then of course that’s perfectly understandable.
How old was Rooney, Jack, Owen etc when they got their 1st England call up? Sanogo is ready for prime time. He just needs to get games, just like anybody else…
What do you guys think our line up should look like? For me it’s:
Playing all our centre backs in one team makes me little bit uncomfortable 😀 I doubt if we’ll ever see Chambers as a DM. Maybe until Arteta, Flamini and Wilshere get injured at the same time.
If Chambers plays CDM and Mert or Boss get injured you can slot him in the CB position and bring on Arteta/Flamini as a sub to cover the CDM position. Simple. Chambers>Arteta.
Have you ever seen Chambers play CDM before??? How do you know he’ll succeed there. Until he actually plays there you can’t really compare him to Arteta.
I’m not sure that Alexis plays very well on the left. I might be wrong, but I don’t think he has ever played any serious time there either. You could find that it would be like playing Ozil on the left, not very effective.
I kid u not mate that is exactly what I wrote out today as the team with corzola on the bench for Ozil n I put ox on the rw till Walcott bk.we need our dynamic football bk and Ozil will never defend but he will thread Sanchez Walcott/ox n welbeck in n if Rambo takes off chambers gas legs to hold bk it’s the perfect 11 for me coz Rambo got a good engine aswell n if injury occurs at the bk chambers can go bk there n flam or pensioner arteta can come on but they are far to slow chambers n Rambo will defend well n faster Ozil is a cam full stop cnt believe u picked exact team as me lol ps get sonogo out he’s another bendtner full stop wilshere bench for Ramsey n Monreal if Gibbs ever fit n stick cambell on bench til giroud bk then they gotta go or arteta or flam need to go as we will have subs wilshere,gk,Monreal,corzola,podolski,giroud and flam/arteta infact no ox instead of them two coz there shit mate if Gibbs ever gets fit they need shipped out in jan arteta flam cambell sonogo maybe even podolski a CDM n CB world class need to come in metersacker no spring chicken and cavani for me pal then let’s get a challenge started coz 4141 wid Ozil at lm who wnt bk track wnt work is wenger blind fax him that team perfect bk to fast football wilshere better pick up his game aswell Rambo captain for me all the best mate weird that exact same team as u put on FB lol
why keep Campbell when hes just playing in the reserves???
I think AW was very slow to react during the Leicester game. He should have made changes at half time. We were very poor and those changes would have given us a better chance to score. We were slow, unimaginative and ineffective. A CHANGE WAS A MUST.
I think Campbell is a terrific player and surely he should have been sent on during the game. Yaya was trying his best ( and he will improve with time) but we needed a result and had a great attacking player in Campbell on the bench!!!
I hope AW does give him time otherwise we will lose a great talent.
cup games man!
After an ‘ugly’ end to a transfer season that started well for us, the supporters will continue to lament and curse Wenger, the team and every one who doesn’t believe in his frustration.
But we the fans should rally round our team no matter who we signed. Welbeck is not the worst player in premiership. At least, half a loaf is better than none. Even Kallström had a little moments of flashes that made us happy last season.
so many players called up for internationals…….wonder how many will be back injury free???
At least Mertesacker is out of international duty…phew 😀
What do you expect Flamini to say?
“My fellow countryman is crap and will never be a quality striker”….. Obviously not!
I do agree with many of your comments. I could just imagine him scoring plenty goals for a bottom ten team (ie Crystal Palace) for a season… then Wenger could re-assess from there. But we can’t now given our lack of depth due to a lacklustre transfer window…
Welbeck might not be in Falcao’s league, but he’s certainly a hell of a lot better than Yaya Sanogo.
wellbeck might not be in falcao’s league…im sorry… might not?!
understatement of the millenium
I wonder if Yaya sanogo has ever scored in fifa 14 too. xD
What I dont understand is, why a permanent deal? Half or a season loan deal would have given us hope to sign a world class striker in the upcoming windows.. And now that seems unlikely :/
Anyway, hope wenger sees welbeck differently. Could prove to be a signing revelation.. Hope he could perform right from the go.
@bazooka If Welbeck plays brilliantly while on loan Man U would demand astrnomical fees for him! Now if he do well which I feel he willdo, they can only regret!
I´m sure Juventus is glad they did´nt just make a loan deal on Progba 😉
debuchy mertesacker koscielny gibbs
walcott özil alexis
OUR STRONGEST LINE UP.
Bench : Ospina, chambers, monreal, wilshere, arteta, rosicky, campbell, podolski, oxlade
Bench is good too.
Replace flam with chambers fresh n fast n uve a team mate
If he has quality he certainly hasn’t shown it on the pitch yet. His touch is appalling as his balance and finishing. If he needs games he should have gone on loan because no way is he good enough for Arsenal. Campbell is much more talented and experienced and its baffling why Wenger hasn’t given him a game yet.
Ironically he played well and looked ok in the Benfica game. He looked a different player, then again we looked a different team that day with Rosicky and Campbell playing. We moved fast and got behind the defence.
Sanogo starting for A club like ARSENAL is a joke. Trust me.
Teams in the bottom half have better striker.
For eg: Man united
Actually every team except arsenal.
may be cup games can improve him, i don’t know!
Roberto Martinez – What a great job signing Lukaku. He wasnt cheap! Spending 28m for a club like everton is a big statement. (Y)
It is Mourinho who is the victor here. Not Martinez. Lukaku is not worth 28 mil. But yeah he had the guts to spend 28 mil for a player who he wanted speaks a lot about him. I will give him that.
A 21 year old, who has already scored over 30 EPL goals in two full seasons. Playing one of those season for a club like West Brom. Who are we to talk after spending 16mill or a guy who went a season scoring one goal.
1. welback 13 goals of 32 starts last season,
2. he is english, home grown,
3. age 23,
what should be his cost then?
really hope Martinez takes over when Wenger eventually leaves…
young, ambitious, good philosophy and has the upmost respect for the game
and you think your 28m lukaku is better than 16m welbeck if played in his prefered standing 9 role.
I’m actually pretty happy with Welbeck, he runs the channels well and is always a presence for defenders. He works hard and can link up play pretty good. Do you remember last season in the Champs League he was brilliant against Bayern. Ok he’s not world class but it’s still a decent buy. Still think that Diame would have been a great buy, Hull were the real transfer deadline winners – they’ll do well this season.
interesting point. heres an idea maybe the prices at the gate should reflect where we are in terms of competiting and quality of squads.
if thats the case are season tickets should be halved in price.
no league in a decade…yet highest in europe…yep
Explain to me how Spurs have the 2nd highest cost of League ticket after Arsenal but won a league in 1960’s. London is the capital. That the only reason.
Come on Muff. Higher standards of living. And economics.
D. Costa – chelsea sign for 32m
Mandzukic – Athletico madrid sign
Cerci- Again atheltico
Griezman- yeah, athletico again
Manolas – roma, oh a new one
Remy – chelsea, yeah they’re back -sign for 8m
di maria – man utd (i never felt he could come to arsenal)
falcao – man utd (i really felt he could come to arsenal)
reus -stays, Dortmund had sold him had it not been for arsenal
sokratis – stays
WILLIAM CARVALHO – STAYS (WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT SIGNING)
……and wenger said WE ARE WORKING ON TRANSFERS CAREFULLY AND ARE PUTTING HARD WORK —————
i still support wenger but he failed in yet another transfer window
he now has to pull a diego simeone an have each player press and put in maximum effort this season.
if we take another chelsea liverpool an city drubbing ,
an win nothing but 4th place…he should go.
Lol, our players rarely put in max effort though. Unless UCL is on the line most our midfielders are just strolling around. Wenger can’t even motivate players anymore. This team may have talent but they are one of the most lazy I have seen in a long time.
there in lies wengers biggest flaw. motivation.
our squad is good enough, but rarely turns up
maybe they notice wenger had a chance to make a statement of intent by getting carvalho or martinez etc, but seems he’s happy to get #4. so they play like it.
They were Media and fans targets
I read on caughtoffside and the daily mail we were in for those players too and i was as furious as you!!!!!!! grrrrrr the nerve on Wenger not to sign every player the media links us with….
was that sarcasm, cause those are some crappy sources lol
why yes… yes it was 😉
I know Sanogo will eventually get there. We have all seen him play and we all know it is his finishing that is the main issue. Otherwise he has great instincts and his positioning and runs are pretty good too.
Still kinda disappointed by the Welbeck signing. I don’t have much against the guy, he is a decent young striker with some potential. My main issue is with Wenger and how he conducted himself in the transfer window. Everybody knew what we needed. He sold and let go several players and just brought in replacements for the key ones. Our only signing is Sanchez still as Welbeck just replaced Bendtner or Park.
What annoys me the most is how most of us fans settled so easily for Welbeck. After all the years of going through the same thing it beats how people are saying ”Welbeck is now a gunner we should just get behind him and support”. That’s exactly what Wenger wants to hear! We have been given false hopes over the years and keep being good little boys Wenger can manipulate because that’s all it is in the end. Before we didn’t have the finances to get top players ”apparently” and we all bought it. Now that we do have the money to compete in the transfer window we will be given the usual bull of players weren’t available and most of you seem to think that’s acceptable. That’s what really pisses me off.
We are Arsenal FC ffs! A club that had world class players in every position a few years back and one of the proudest fan base in the world! Now we are a club being held back by a manager in his own world and with fans who will easily accept his dodgy decisions. Now let’s all wait for the excuses for not getting defensive cover or a more proven striker while we stack up our usual injuries and wonder how we got here.
The old man is living in denial.
Sometimes i feel sorry for him.
dont he is richer than u, an from what i hear bangs some absolute stunners.
believe me hes happy as fook
thats ok they now have 35 goal a season diego costa.
damn man, all your comments are so in awe of chelsea…
you’re aware we only finished 3pts behind them and actually won something last season??
who cares what they do?
its not awe its begrudging respect, they had problems they bought players and fixed it quickly.
we however prefer attempting to convert players, hoping youngsters step up immediately and then moan when we get trounced 6-0.5-1
this is why we wont come close in the league.
last season we werent far off cos everyone had squads lacking players. this season they have fixed it- we havent
the gap will be alot bigger – common sense tells me this
Sanchez, Ospina, Debuchy, Chambers, Welbeck
Theo, Ramsey, Campbell, Ox, Wilshere, (don’t want to jinx it but possibly Diaby)
There’s 10 reasons we’ll be stronger than last season……
Chelsea has 25+ players at loan…they got 1bn interest free loan from Roman….
if any club had that, and not have a squad like chelshik, AND NOT WON A TITLE, then there is something wrong, don’t you think?
Yeah right as if when you ask Flamini on Television about a teammate and Wenger’s favorite boy Sanogo, he will say “Sanogo is the shi*tiest stiker ever to wear the Arsenal shirt.”
C’mon admin, even Flamini has more common sense than you.
Wenger really messed. He should have broken the bank for Carvalho. With him you’re getting two players in one (DM and CB). If we had sign Carvalho in addition to Welbeck, I’d have been happy. Won’t be surprised if we wake up tomorrow to the news that wenger has signed an aging (or even worse, an injured) free agent.
Circus transfer window. Two average CDMA still, only 3 cbs, £16mill wasted on a forward no better than Campbell. Alexis is really the only positive. Chambers good as well but a 19 yr old isn’t going to win us titles
Thanks admn for the registration. Now to Sanogo. My fellow gooners, u should learn not to jump into judgments based on a few games. Slating tis guy based on the Leicester game is wrong and unfair atleast he was involved with the goal. Fans here are afraid to say Ramsey,Debuchy Flamini all had bad games than Sanogo. Lets learn to support our players. #welcomeWelbeck.
Half a loaf is better than nothing. A bird in hand is worth than two in the bundu. If u cant beat them join (Arsene in Rome). Cheer up guys, so much negative energy is not gonna bring us back eeeh Nicklas Bendtner!
I am quite happy with the welbeck signing, he is going to shine at arsenal i have no doubts and is a perfect fit in more ways than one.
If Sanago becomes more relax he will score goals, Welbeck is here so i expect to see sanago in the cup matches. Sanago has better control than many, have instincts for here the ball going to run and a good turn of pace, he just needs to relax and stop being so tense before the Goal, its like stage fright. Flamini says he finishes in training so is only to get it going on the competitive stage.
Unfortunately we are desperate for the league trophy and we are four points behind, therefore we need immediate goals and improvement so Sanago will have bear these criticisms, although unfair. I feel these two young men will get going sooner rather than later, because they have the potential and the ability to do so, with walcott and Sanchez showing them the way.
I am hoping that we can still purchase players that have been released or out of contract for the 2 missing area DM and CB (short contracts), because wenger although doing well n the earlier stage of the market did quite poorly at the end, putting arsenal in a quite dangerous spot if couple injuries occur in our defensive areas, this leaves me to believe WENGER IS SENILE, STUPID OR STUBBORN OR ALL 3
we need a new manager soon
ahhh the annual player impatient fans will mercilessly attack only for them to act like they believed all along once they become an integral part of the squad…
who’s will win this year?? my money’s on Sanogo or Wilshere…
Last seasons winner Ramsey will be sad to pass on the award and the previous season’s winner Theo may actually be giving a speech!! happy days!!
Send Sanogo out on Loan in january as by then we will have Giroud back…Let Campbell be with us..loaning him again would make him lose confidence…but we must buy a DM in january.
I think that at the start of the transfer window, Wenger considered that with the addition of Sanchez he had enough up front to score enough goals. Myself and a lot of fans did not agree and thought he should sign a world class striker.
With the injury to Giroud and Theo still not back, wenger was forced in to the situation at Leicester of Sanogo leading the line. This is completely unfair on a young unproven striker, its no surprise that he lacked the required composure in front of goal. If this situation had continued there was a real possibility of Sanogo losing more confidence and never making it at Arsenal. As Alan Hansen said, “you won’t win anything with kids”, unless they they are Scholes, Giggs et al.
Wenger was then forced in to a last minute (panic) buy of Welbeck. Lets hope it works out but signing a wc striker earlier in the transfer window would have been much better and an opportunity seems to have been missed. Sanogo must be doing well in training but that is completely different to performing in front of millions of tv viewers and 60 thousand live fans. Sanogo probably needs to go on loan to get game time in important competetive matches, the reserves is not the same
For someone so tight as Wenger Why couldn’t he spot Cambiasso as a free transfer?
The issue is not necessarily the players, it’s the way Arsene lines them up, and the way he wants them to play. He must adjust his tactics and player selection.
We’ve all been clamoring for Arsene to sign us players that go forward with pace. We have them now and we still complain. (Mesut, Theo, Alexis, Ox, Joel, Welbeck…….Sanogo). Why do we complain, because at any given time in our 5 whose sole purpose it is to go forward, 6 if you want to count the CDM, Arsene fields at least 4 players who’s first instinct is not necessarily to turn or beat the first man and drive forward, but rather to take a couple touches and go laterally or negative – 1 Arteta, 2 Ramsey 3 Jack 4 Santi 5 Giroud.
Everyone knows that Giroud is not gonna vertically pace anyone, so everyone has become used to him being a pivot – either in the middle 3rd as we come out of the back, or in the final 3rd at the top of the 18. Problem is, opposing defenses are aware of this as well. Therefore, as we go east and west with as many passes and dribbles as possible, other teams immediately retreat north and south, and by the time we’ve worked our to the final 3rd, they’ve got 2 banks of 4 behind the ball forcing us to unlock them with unbelievable combination play. As you’ve seen of late, we are not in rhythm enough to pull this off. Then when we lose it and get countered – jack doesn’t have a lot of pace, Ramsey is too far forward, Santi and Mesut dont want to defend and shouldn’t necessarily be asked to run track meets on the touchline, Arteta too damn slow, Mertesacker…bless his heart, Flamini starts the game with a yellow, and our outside backs are too far up the pitch trying to help play some intricate pass.
Why are City, Liverpool, even Chelsea and Everton, Madrid and Bayern scoring goals by the boatloads (this year or last year) because they look to immediately go north and south when they win the ball, and resort to combination play at the top of the box as a last resort. Meanwhile, our manager still wants us to attempt to score goals playing the beautiful game that Barca and Spain did that was so successful from 06-2010. Well Arsene, that cycle is over.
We now have the players, at least in the front 5 to go forward with pace and be scary. Arsene needs to stop trying to force players into positions they don’t play, take a page about Mourinho’s book, and play the players in a proper system that will make us successful. And if you’re not performing, you sit.
Arteta holding (rotating with Flamini and Jack if AW believes this is where he will thrive)
Ramsey – box to box, stop with the 4-3-3 as this is helping Rambo; he went forward with great pace last year from the box-to-box role (jack and diaby to rotate)
Alexis – on the left – we saw that he can constantly make the first defender miss when he cuts in on his right foot, but if we take forever to get up the field, that 1st defender will always have at least 2 more covering. (rotate with Campbell – please play this damn kid, and the ox)
Mesut – as the 10 – please don’t Arshavin this kid. He’s special. Put pace and north/south tactics around him, and he’ll be the player we purchased (rotate with Santi and Tomas)
Theo – on the right. The way we build slowly right now will stifle his pace. Must change our tactics (rotate with ox and campbell)
Danny boy up top (rotate with Giroud, Theo, Campbell, then yaya)
Our pace going forward can match Liverpool’s, Chelsea’s, and City’s, exceed Everton’s, and who knows how United will line up. However, it all depends on if Arsene will allow us to go forward with, or if he still wants to field 5 no.10s/no.8s and go east to west as often as possible.
Hopefully he’ll watch the tape of the last game and see the culmination of this.
Well said. We got qualities players but Wenger still don’t know how to use them. Lpool last game look like how we played last time. Now our game so boring.
Have you handed in a CV?
@th14: You have said everything. Wenger just needs to take a print out of this and follow this to the T 🙂
I am a UEFA .licence coach but you don’t need that to see what wrong, we have arguably the strongest midfield In the country and a decent back 4 but the way we play doesn’t get the best out of our players, I would play a front 3 of Sanchez welbeck and either chaimbo/ Campbell
Ozil/corzola/Ramsey just behind then Arteta and chambers as DM but when you play ozil or corzola wide we lose pace and cover for the fullback we have to many players who play No 10
Sanchez Welbeck Walcott
This is the reason we started out playing 433. So stop this 4141 nonsense and put Özil in the middle!
No point discussing transfer disappointments now.
Its time for all our players to step us and be the men they are trusted to be.Moreover its time everyone plays in their true positions.
No problem even if the players are exausted. We might loan in someone or buy someone to give them(tired players) enough rest.
guys watch this..
hit like if this it true
Not a good window but we still got qualities there, the only problem now is on Wenger, how he use them. With Welbeck at least better than nothing, some more he provide better attacking options, now only hope Wenger can use the players wisely, I want our old arsenal back.
Slightly off Topic. According to whoscored.com, in the premiership, arsenel are leading the stats for possession, passing accuracy and shots per game, we are second for aerial duals won. So how come we haven’t blown the opposition away? Is it as the saying goes “there are lies, damm lies and statistics”, or is it a lack of world class clinical striker, or something else?
Sanogo, welbeck or more likely Sanchez may become wc strikers but we should have signed a ready made one. To answer my own question, i think it is lack of wc clinical striker.
Next two weeks are going to be mad boring. Why does interlull exist. Completely meaningless.
You lot need to stop making silly comments. If u want to show your anger, start boycotting the matches. Arsene Wenger is demented
Should’ve been sent out on loan. Wenger is going to break him at this rate with the unnecessary pressure.
Welcome #DW to #arsenal but #FACKWENGER
Positives – we have a decent bench, look at last season’s, bloody empty seats almost.
negatives – Sonogoal is still not proven, Danny lacks confidence , campbell needs game time, poldi lacks conviction, Alexis, on the wing or upfront, he looks lonely upfront on his own.
Woah, lot of negatives
I feel like Wenger lied to us maintaining it important to get a defender after Vermaelen left. Also giving us the impression of more than one transfer by saying we would be “busy” with transfers.
Also, I feel if he did make offers for big players, he probably made really low offers or offered the players Low wages.
3 signings a top Striker, CDM and decent defender would have been enough to challenge for title.
Sounds like a French player looking out for his French mate?
Face it this kid could not score in a TARTS house
I come on here to see other fans views on our club and also to voice my own, all I see is b*itches whining and complaining – I beg of you please moan to your significant other. Fair enough not everyone will agree with whatever decisions Wenger makes but none of you (especially Leo) have a clue what’s going on behind the scenes. Stop pretending you have some sort of superior knowledge about Football because you haven’t, you just impose your sh*t opinions on other people to make yourself feel better so you can say “I told you so” as soon as something goes wrong.
Please. I beg. Put the keyboard down and stop neglecting your wife/girlfriend/gaylover.
I am with none, through choice , no time and have a baby on the way but not sure why that should matter , wenger has coaching badges up to his neck but can’t see what wrong
Walcott is inj , if he was fit he would play right Sanchez left and welbeck up front , if Ramsey or Wiltshire would play DM I would pair them with Arteta , then ozil behind the striker just my opinion
To play ozil or corzola wide is a waste of a player as they won’t track back and have little pace
Seems you think your views are superior to others. Why should they put their keyboards down? Others are entitled to their opinions regarding Arsenal , that’s what the comments section is for.
Sanogo might come good in the future.
But is it really fair on the club and it’s supporters and even Sanogo to play him as the main striker now. We can’t afford to lose points, playing him as our main striker with just a hope that he will eventually become the striker we need.
Sonogo should get a few more chances but in the League Cup and early FA Cup games. The Premier League is not a training ground and proven players like Campbell and Podolski should get more time up front.
Welbeck will be hungry to prove his worth straight away and is a good buy. £16M is more than we paid for Arshavin who was the most expensive Arsenal signing until Mesut Ozil turned up. Things are changing at The Grove, eventually.