Should Arsenal appeal David Luiz red card against Wolves?

I have rarely seen a sending off debated so widely than today’s opinions on the David Luiz red card against Wolves last night. There is no doubt in my mind that Luiz definitely did not foul Willian Jose, and he didn’t attempt to, or have any intent other than getting out of the way.

He tried his hardest to avoid any contact at all, so it is incredible that he was immediately sent off. Mikel Arteta also thinks there was no contact and the boss told Sky that he is thinking of appealing against the decision. “Sat here, I would say yes, let’s go straight away. But we have to speak with legal and the club and make the decision of what the best thing to do is.

“I’ve seen the replay ten times from five different angles, and I cannot see any contact. I would like to see if VAR have different angles.

“I don’t want to think that [the decision was made on David Luiz’s reputation]. I’m sure they made the decision based on seeing something. I was expecting to see something but didn’t see anything.

Arsenal’s David Luiz reacts after he fouls Wolverhampton Wanderers’ Willian Jose during the English Premier League football match between Wolverhampton Wanderers and Arsenal at the Molineux stadium in Wolverhampton, central England on February 2, 2021. (Photo by Shaun Botterill / POOL / AFP) / RESTRICTED TO EDITORIAL USE. No use with unauthorized audio, video, data, fixture lists, club/league logos or ‘live’ services. Online in-match use limited to 120 images. An additional 40 images may be used in extra time. No video emulation. Social media in-match use limited to 120 images. An additional 40 images may be used in extra time. No use in betting publications, games or single club/league/player publications. / (Photo by SHAUN BOTTERILL/POOL/AFP via Getty Images)

“Of course it changed the game – playing for 45 minutes with ten men in the Premier League, without your central defender, of course it changes the game.

“It was a big decision. If the officials got it right, and can justify they got it right, I will put my hand up and apologise. But I didn’t see any contact and that is really frustrating because it was a big moment in the game.

“The way we lost the game is where it really hurts, it’s painful, but I have to take the positives. We didn’t concede any chances but Moutinho scored a ‘worldie’ and it’s 2-1.

“Bernd comes out and hits the ball with his hand, it’s a clear red card and we’re down to nine players and it’s almost impossible to win.”

You could simply say that Arsenal were denied three points by the decision, considering we were 1-0 up and totally in control. As far as I am concerned, PGMOL should fully investigate the incident and give us a full explanation whatever they decide that the rules indicate…

49 Comments

  1. Val says:

    Yes i do think we should appeal it
    I watched it live, then all the replays during the game and probably about 20 times today.

    One, the rule needs to be looked for starters, how can you hack someone down in the box and get a yellow because you ” attempted” to play the ball and yet if you dont attempt to play the ball its and automatic read card.

    Now, this is where the rule needs to be looked at and rewritten imo.

    I get that if you pull someone back and take a swipe at the player its a red and penalty.

    But Luiz was not guilty of any of that at all, it wasnt actually him that initiated the contact
    The wolves player hit luiz, he became unbalanced and went down and in doing so made Luiz also hit the deck.

    Something has to be done about this but i highly doubt it anything will get done.

    I mean how can luiz actually get out the way of someone’s trigger foot on the pull back there?

    1. A J says:

      Could not agree more Val.

      Brilliantly put.

      It’s possible some may have wandered more into “Anti Luiz” rhetoric, than actually studying the incident (and this from someone who wants to see Gabriel re-integrated anyway).

      I’ve just looked at yet another still at the point of so called “impact”.

      Said still reveals EXACTLY as described by you above.

      The Wolves players studs barely touch Luiz’s knee cap as he is about to shoot – this purely on the back of the strikers shooting action.

      But because Luiz was chasing (yes, from the wrong side) it is immediately the defenders fault – a pen’ and a red.

      Funny that – in midfield it’s at best instantly waved away, or at worst deemed diving.

      Why was the pitch side monitor not used ?

      I think an appeal is justified.

      1. ozziegunner says:

        The imports t factor is which player initiated contact and it wasn’t David Luiz.
        Won’t change the result, but Arsenal should appeal.

        1. A J says:

          Well said ozziegunner.

          We all have our own opinions, that’s one aspect that makes football what it is.

          But it completely baffles me when presented with video and photographic evidence some refuse to accept what their eyes can see ?

          The worse culprit being a certain Jon Moss.

          The Referee was quick to give what he THOUGHT had occurred.

          Moss had the necessary technology to hand !!

          Why was Poulson not even advised to go to the monitor ?

          The Luiz incident was simply not a penalty, let alone a red.

          If you still need convincing, give Robbie Lyle a watch on AFTV “I’m Still Angry” (streamed 17 hrs ago) – provides conclusive evidence, which I incidentally have been banging on about since Wednesday morning.

          Most ex-players know when a player is being cute / clever trying to con the referee, as for some referee’s – sadly not.

          Whilst on – off topic.

          What needs looking at are issues such the increase in the “cowards challenge”.

          Raking a player down his achilles (obviously from behind).

          Can cause serious injury to a player – ask Santi.

          Bruno Fernandes at our place “done” (as above) Xhaka .

          The two had an earlier “flick up”, and Fernandes clearly waited his chance – wide on the halfway line.

          I think we may have got a free kick, and that was it !

          Put this type of challenge up there with “going over the top”, could equally be an instant red.

  2. gotanidea says:

    Definitely, because the officials would easily brandish another red card against us in the next games if we keep quiet. Look at these astonishing red card stats of the most popular EPL clubs in this season:

    1. Arsenal – 5 red cards
    2. Everton – 2 red cards
    3. Chelsea, Spurs, Man United – 1 red card
    4. Liverpool, Man City, Leicester City – 0 red card

    1. PJ-SA says:

      Please please please stop using stats!

      You have no idea how statistical analysis works if you think the information you are providing here means anything…..it means nothing without the a relative metric

      E.g.
      You need to measure red cards given in relation to viable red card incidents

      Its like saying you have 5 speeding fines and your neighbour only has 1 speeding fine. By your logic/reasoning Bove the traffic cops are targeting you clearly…..when the reality is that maybe you just speed more thN your neighbour.

      1. gotanidea says:

        Just showing how bad the red cards have affected our performances and it keeps coming like COVID-19 mutations

      2. Dan kit says:

        You mean like Bruno raking his studs down our player and VAR not even looking at it ,you mean them kind of stats

        1. ken1945 says:

          Why does he sound like a spud fan?
          Just to confirm, I believe the club should appeal… and they have.

      3. Kedrick Mulenga Mwape says:

        Correct, Speed kills.

      4. jon fox says:

        PJ-SA. Well said! So many use stats ignorantly, completely oblivious of the amount of knowledge in how to properly prepare and use them goes into PROFESSIONAL stats creation and analysis.
        The arrogance of some of these rank amateurs, who know nothing of how stats work when used properly, is soul destroying in its sheer ignorance.
        If they had any idea about the science of statistics – which of course they don’t – they would not so constantly and blithely embarrass themselves before those who DO know about this subject AND WHO HAVE STUDIED IT IN GREAT DEPTH!
        Got anidea is the perfect example of a rank amateur who fancies he knows about them, when it is plain that he has not the first idea. His own words perfectly betray his complete lack of knowledge. It would be funny, were it not so sad!

        1. Phil says:

          Tell you something Dan- Got An Idea knows his football but sometimes just over complicates what he says. But I would rather his opinion than Foxy who has form for conveniently changing what he supposedly believes anyway. As you well know mate

        2. Dan kit says:

          I take it JoNs post wasn’t personal 🤔

  3. Sue says:

    YES! YES! YES!

  4. Grandad says:

    VAR , far from improving the game , is ruining it as a spectacle.A number of the present rules are badly in need of change e.g. Offside, handball, goalmouth skirmishes at corners ,etc etc.But one area which will always remain subjective concerns contact upon which the game is based.There is no doubt in my mind that fans are becoming sick and tired of players falling to the ground at the slightest touch,feigning injury where none exists.Referees need to all be singing off the same hymn sheet and leave players in no doubt that they will come down hard on any culprits.As for appealing the sending off of Luis,with his track record I would not bother.Rightly or wrongly, adjudicator s will no doubt be influenced by his misdemeanors of the past,so I would let it be.

    1. jon fox says:

      Grandad. I have been fundamentally 100% AGAINST
      the entire concept of a referee sat in front of a remote screen advising the pitch referee to look again on video screen. VAR has been a disaster and ill conceived from the outset for reasons I will, shortly, fully write about.

      I WILL SOON BE SENDING IN MY OWN PROPERLY ANALYSED FULLY THOUGHT THROUGH TOTAL CONDEMNATION OF THE WHOLE HARMFUL NONSENSE!

      THE SOONER IT IS SWEPT AWAY COMPLETELY AND DAMNED AS A FOOLISH IDEA THAT SET BACK THE GAME, THE BETTER. Your word ” subjective ” will be fully discussed and dissected as foolishness.

  5. JOhn0711 says:

    Why appeal
    Luiz is a disaster always has been
    Should never put the shirt on again

  6. Indian Gunner London says:

    I would say No. What is the point?
    The law is an ASS.

    As Dione Dublin said yesterday, common sense is not written down in the law.

    Move on to the next game and depend on the squad we have to get results.

    1. Innit says:

      Red cards can be removed. What’s the harm of trying

    2. jon fox says:

      IGL So you believe in NOT challenging harmful laws then? I DO believe in doing so!

      1. Indian Gunner London says:

        For Jon Fox
        I do not understand how making an appeal is challenging the law. It is appealing for a common sense to a decision which is correct as per the law.
        Even if the appeal is successful, the law is not being changed.

        For changing a law you need to go through a process which would include unaffected clubs by this stupid law to also ask for this law to be changed and then accepted by the powers above.

  7. GunneRay says:

    I just wish (for once) that officials would common sense in these situations. It was more than obvious that Luiz was not intentionally trying to trip him.

    Then again, If Luiz was not way out of position this would never have happened..

  8. GunneRay says:

    *Would use common sense!

  9. Danny says:

    Got nothing to loose so may as well appeal but think we all know it won’t be overturned be a absolute miracle if it is!!

    1. Declan says:

      I agree it should be challenged but if the FA think it is a frivolous appeal, the ban can be extended by a game.

      1. jon fox says:

        Declan. So that might mean no more Luiz for an extra game then! Based on that outcome, I would challenge it a hundred times!

  10. Sue says:

    I have to say, I really did enjoy those 44 minutes. We were awesome. Saka, wow!! Partey’s passing. Holding 👌Pepe’s goal – worthy of winning any game! Loved it and the half flew past, as it was so good!!
    Hoping we can carry that on on Saturday…
    I’m all for appealing, but the damage has been done. Nothing will bring those 3 points back!
    And I’m sparing a thought for the poor old Saints fans too!!

  11. McLovin says:

    I hate overturned reds in a way becausse it just goes to verify that the referee made a,mistake. And that mistake cost a club whole game..

  12. Andrew Elder says:

    Agree with Grandad about the Luiz sending off. I don’t think his absence will effect us but Leno’s will.

    I also hate the ‘falling down at the slightest touch’ that has crept into the game. It’s plain and simple cheating. Another thing is the constant spitting that occurs which is now more noticeable without the crowds. Every time the camera zooms in on a player, he spits, multiply that by 20 outfield players spitting say, 12 times per minute for 90 minutes, that’s a lot of spit to be sliding into particularly during a pandemic. And not very nice when you’re eating a sandwich.

    1. Quantic Dream says:

      @Andrew Elder
      Hehe. It’s a big pitch, it can take the spit. At least we don’t see players shooting out mucus from one nostril like Van Persie used to do!

      1. Sue says:

        We do, QD!! It’s always when the camera zooms in on a player too, it’s so gross!!! Imagine falling over in it..eww!!

        1. Quantic Dream says:

          😂😂

  13. Reggie says:

    Appealingly will not change a thing. It was a situation where once a striker is in front of the defender in the box, if the striker is even a bit savvi, he slows down just a bit the let the player behind run into him. That is what happened, the touch, if there was one, may only have been minimal to non existent but as soon as the defender touches the striker he feels it and goes down, either intentionally or genuinely. Any good striker coach will teach you that, they look for it. It was a penalty 100%, was it a red card morally? Probably not but morals dont come into that rule of football. Its time to forget about it and move on. Luiz was unlucky, it isn’t about his history at all.

  14. durand says:

    Sadly the truth is that it’s not the players responsibility to avoid contact with Luiz, in fact they are taught many times to look to create such contact. It’s a bad rule, and only should be red if it’s a reckless tackle AND disrupting a clear goal opportunity.

    Luiz was at fault for positioning, at fault for the chase and subsequent contact, and at fault for the penalty.

    Was it soft? yes, but a penalty by the rules. My only problem was the double jeopardy issue. Award the penalty, but issue Luiz a yellow card instead of red.

    If Luiz followed through with a crunching tackle from behind, then award penalty AND a red for reckless behavior; risking injury to another player and a foul in the box.

    But Luiz clearly wasn’t trying to tackle, pull, or take him out during his attempt, so a yellow would have been justified. Again, poor rule that needs to be corrected in the offseason.

  15. Twig says:

    Even if the red card is overturned, and it should, it will not correct the damage that was done to Arsenal. Was it a key moment of the game, yes it was. Expensive refereeing errors such as this should call for much more than simply overturning a card.

    PS:

    Arsenal has already appealed.

  16. Kedrick Mulenga Mwape says:

    The game was lost, and simply because of luiz(period). Louiz is a professional defender who should monitor and master his movements in the box. Why did he change the direction when the player with the ball was going straight at Leno?

  17. Mogunna says:

    If arterta even tries, it would be beyond pathetic; nuts.

    The more he is out, better we are

  18. Kev82 says:

    So angry still! Moutinho and Pawson fist bumping each other and Pawson with a little smirk on his face, the same ref who also let Mane elbow Tierney and allow Jota’s goal stand against us after using his hand to control it, also the same ref to allow Jorginho to assault another Arsenal player only for him to go on score the winner. It’s ok for rivals fans to laugh but if this level of corruption happened to they’re team they would be crying they’re little eyes out! There is no doubt we are the team with the harshest treatment in the league and it’s no surprise given how Riley is the head honcho!

  19. Davi says:

    Agree with Arteta’s thinking – if there is no contact, then of course they should appeal, if there was contact then I’d say there’s no point.
    However I believe bigger issue is that the rule itself is terribly written – why on earth should someone be so punished for an accident or at worst a simple mistake? Penalty is enough.
    My understanding of the double jeopardy concept was to prevent this excessive punishment and only give a red card if it was a deliberate foul to stop a goal. That would make sense.

  20. Joe. S says:

    Probably time to move on. It hurts though. Some players like Dyer at the Spuds can get away with thuggish actions while Arsenal who are not a dirty team get punished for what are usually brain snaps. Hopefully because of the controversy it will make refs think twice before gleefully brandishing the red. We won’t miss Luiz and can overcome a shaky goalkeeper if the remaining players stay focused. The mindset should be that the world is against us and we are out to extract revenge, On the field of course, by scoring more goals than our opponents.

  21. Danny says:

    According to former referee Mark Clattenburg Luiz should not have been sent off and just got a yellow card so now def were the appeal although as someone previously mentioned it doesn’t change the result we still lost!!

    1. Davi says:

      If it was accidental and not dangerous, why even the yellow card? If he did make contact, penalty is enough

  22. Quantic Dream says:

    Why appeal? Do we want Luiz back in the team?

    1. Glorious says:

      It is not about Luiz, it is about Arsenal. Appealing that decision of a naive referee is the decision the club can take.

  23. Lola says:

    @admin bring back upvote downvote function

    1. Admin Pat says:

      Why???

      Jeez everybody is telling me how to run my website today!

    2. Reggie says:

      No thanks.!

  24. Keith Wood says:

    I think it was a definite penalty. I cannot understand all the fuss. Two players running at full speed one behind the other, any slightest touch the front player will go sprawling. And to say it was unintentional Luiz would have slowed down to make a gap between himself and Jose, instead of getting as close as possible KNOWING he will get some sort of touch. That is intended any day of the week.

  25. Sean Williams says:

    The fact Johnathan Moss, VAR ref, so quickly upheld the sending off, suggest incompetence and lack of ability at the highest level. Ridiculous. Moss should be sacked, put in the Stocks, humiliated and have rotten eggs and rotten tomatoes thrown at him by all Arsenal supporters until he repents hating Arsenal. Do the same to Mike Dean whilst we’re there too.

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