Lack of ambition? by Ben Dungate
Wait! This post isn’t what you think it is. It isn’t going to be another page of rantings against Mikel Arteta or Ainsley Maitland-Niles or lamenting us not signing Jonathan David, yet….
Indeed, this post is more a response to an article I read on William Saliba having his head turned by PSG. This is the lack of ambition I am referring to. I understand a young player wanting to win trophies, and I understand a young man aspiring to play for the biggest club in his home country.
But joining PSG “because you want to win trophies” is a sad and frankly pathetic mindset. Who remembers Alan Shearer rejecting Alex Ferguson and Man Utd to join Newcastle? That’s what we want and need.
Young people need to realise that success that is handed to you is a hollow victory. Earn your rewards.
It’s important to note that as far as I am aware Saliba has not been actually quoted as being interested in moving to PSG, it is purely an attempt by the journalist to harvest clicks, but it got me thinking about the situation with some of our younger players.
Saka is persistently linked with Liverpool, and that may well happen in the future, transfers always do, but it’s the concept of players just wanting success handed to them rather than having to earn it that irks me. The article mentioned PSG’s project. What project is that? To see how far they can stretch the seemingly endless boundaries of the Financial Fair Play rules?
Arteta is building a project at Arsenal and Saliba is playing an integral part in it. I also think Martin Odegaard’s experience at Real Madrid could help should Saliba start wavering. Things don’t always work out as you expect them to.
William Saliba is a terrific young player, who will probably go on to lead France at future World Cups, if not in Qatar. And if he does he will have Mikel Arteta and Arsenal to thank for it. Arteta handled his development really well and I hope that isn’t lost on him. Allowing him to gain experience in his home country with increasingly more expectation and responsibility on him is inspired.
Naturally, I suppose, PSG could well be the ultimate point on that journey but not next season, and hopefully not in 2024. But time will tell and the lure of immediate glory is a tempting one for many players.
Ben Dungate
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A young player wanting to win trophies is a pathetic mindset ?
I’m not sure you read the article. I think he is referring to the fact that the French league is not the best. PSG always win by a country mile and the French league is not perceived as prestigious as the prem.
Personally I beleive winning the prem with arsenal is far more prestigious than winning the French league with PSG. Perhaps if it was Rmadrid knocking for saliba I would have less to say
How do you know? Perhaps to a French man, winning his own national league more important. Perhaps the reason he may leave (if he does) has nothing at all to do with winning or losing with Arsenal. The writer of this article suggested that Arteta has helped Saliba with his development. What if Saliba thinks differently? How ever people try to dress it up Saliba and his agent were not impressed with his treatment. Bridges need to and hopefully be built but Saliba has his choices all in his own hands. He will make the decision that is best for himself.
Perhaps you didn’t read what SBG wrote either – he didn’t say what Saliba might think, he simply noted that it’s *perceived* that the French league is not as prestigious as the PL (in general, not by Saliba) – it’s not a real “competition” in the sense that anyone but PSG will win it.
He then expressed his own view beginning the last sentence with the word “Personally… ” was supposed to be a clue, one that even the cranially-challenged could follow.
@Reggie
🎯RealTalk Gooner.
And if there is anyone who Saliba should be thankful for his development to, it’s Sampaoli, not Arteta.
Agree NY.
That’s a quote
He literally wrote ‘
understand a young player wanting to win trophies, and I understand a young man aspiring to play for the biggest club in his home country.
But joining PSG “because you want to win trophies” is a sad and frankly pathetic mindset
You clearly didn’t read the article or misunderstood what was a trying to say. Obviously players want to win things and if the club you’re at is pants then fair enough. Burnley probably isn’t going to be anyone’s dream destination. It’s players like Clichy and Nasri that just want it given to them, so jump ship just so they can say they won things.
Maybe it’s just my own personal view and maybe I shouldn’t be aiming it at William Saliba as in all likelihood he would go straight into PSG’s starting line-up. How many promising youngsters have signed for Chelsea because they “want to win things” but never played and in some cases actually regress their careers. Shaun Wright-Phillips or Scott Parker anyone? And how are things working out for Jack Grealish?
I’m not saying don’t harvest ambition. The minute Arsenal stop meeting a players ambition I couldn’t blame them for moving on. Maybe I’m just of a mindset that it feels better to be a part of something I helped create rather than just succeed off the backs of others.
+1
Beautifully put and it sums up my own view entirely. Winning a meaningless title is something that IMO will not attract the sort of warrior that Saliba has and is showing himself to be. Players of THAT level are not attracted simply because it means they can “go home” andplay with the so called big boys.
REAL MEN , meaning SALIBA, ARE FAR MOR LIKELY TO WANT TO BE A PART OF BUILDING SOMETHING REAL OF THEIR OWN.
YOU, I AND SOME OTHERS UNDERSTAND THAT .
How naive can some people be
Jon you are a self righteous narcissists.
What, more than one! Why use plurals as I AM ONE PERSON! Rudeness from you reassures me I am right.
You can’t be right all the time Jon, or CAN YOU?
But If your judging Arsenal over the last 10 years you can’t win things with us.
Let’s say we don’t win title this season Saliba could earn more money and trophies at PSG.
Picking PSG over Arsenal is not a pathetic mindset
Missing the point and producing twisted pseudo-logic, as ever Dan.
He can win more *meaningless trophies* is the point that was made – not how many, what they’re worth.
If they move to Real Madrid or Barcelona and become inconsistent there, they could become squad rotation players. At least they’re Arsenal’s main players now and they fit into Arteta’s system
Aside from that, Arsenal could give them higher salaries than what those La Liga giants can pay next season
Now that could be interpreted as lacking ambition.
Making Arsenal win major trophies will be a greater challenge than winning them at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Muenchen or PSG, because Arsenal haven’t won EPL or a major European trophy for almost two decades
There is a bit of irony in your reply. Arsenal are not seen as big a club as Real or Barca, even now. Try telling what you said to Beckham, Zidanne, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Mbappe, Benzema etc.
How revealing is your post, that all these players you list are either of the past or else older players who started long ago,( apart from Mbappe alone).
Times have massively changed for the so called two Spanish “giants” and neither are, THESE DAYS, anywhere near the power or draw they were when your listed player were starting out.
RM are now just another big club and BARCA ARE STRUGGLING HUGELY AND FINANCIALLY TO STAY IN THE BIG TIME ROLE THEY ONCE HAD, QUITE SOME YEARS AGO.
Our PREM is massively the greatest draw in world football and Prem clubs , not only the top ones, dwarf the financial power of former top foreign clubs. Top players the world over recognise that truth of that change, even if you dont!
In any case coming from YOU, the arch Arsenal pessimist, your daft contention that “we are not seem as a big club” , is predictably though laughably untrue.
Self righteous Narcissist. And just a horrible human being.
Yes, because our European trophy cabinet is still empty
If Mbappe, Neymar and Mbappe can win UCL with PSG, that would be a greater achievement than winning it at Real Madrid or Barcelona
Not in the history books. I have never heard anyone in football decrying winning something because it was a big team. Winning is winning.
@GAI Yep, those clubs are a graveyard for many players who go there with great dreams and hopes, only to see them snuffed out while they warm a bench with a ringside seat.
And the Spanish league is close to a 2-horse race as well with Atletico making the odd guest appearance at the top.
They want the kudos of playing there, the full trophy cabinet… the value of those trophies doesn’t really seem to occur to many footballers. But there are some as Ben pointed out.
Yeah, our players should remember how Hazard and Griezmann suffered after moving there
Because they left the prem, to go to an “easier” league, they suffered? No they suffered as you put it Because they didn’t perform, end of.
Has the title race in England not been a 2 horse race for years
City won like 4 out of 5 titles
In that time liga had 3 winners i think
Dan,
It depends on whether the two horses change to a different set of two horses. It was us and Man U. It then became Chelsea and ManC.
In Spain, for donkey’s years it was Madrid and Barcelona. Recent history surely doesn’t take precedence over the rivalry and success of those two teams who will surely come full circle and be in contention again?
If Saliba wants to leave now, we ask for 100M for him. But right now, he and team mates can win trophies. So why leave. I believe he and agent are using this PSG stuff to inflate his new contract.
His present contract runs out in 6 months, why is he using PSG to inflate his contract? It doesn’t make sense, he is hot property, he doesnt need to inflate anything.
Saliba should stay at Arsenal and make the name for himself. And earn the greatest respect from the football community.
How many of the club’s past players were respected by you Fans. Even a Manager who committed 22 years of his life to the course of the club was booed out by the Fans. How did you treat the likes of Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey, Aubameyang, etc. A smart player will only play for his wages and his own ambition.
Any dip in form, the first group to crucify them will be the same people (the Fans). You’re here talking about respect from football Community. How did Man. Utd treat Ronaldo the moment it seems he won’t be banging in the goals; how did you treat Xhaka; many of you were already slating Saka 2 months ago.
A smart player knows what he want, and will go for it without considering the Fans; as you Fans never support them when they are in trouble too.
It is up to the club to be ambitious, and the standards and expectations that accompany that are imprinted on the players. Saliba has a great opportunity I believe with this squad under Arteta to grow into a team that challenges for the title consistently as well as going deep into the CL.
IF several years from now we haven’t grown out of the “top 4 mentality” then I wouldn’t blame him for moving on to greener pastures.
All of this is speculation of course, it’s really down to the players decision and the club. The club communicates it’s goals and ambition, and the player decides if the opportunities and ambition match.
I wouldnt waste my energy on this. Players come and go. All i care about is us having a good, ruthless system where we could lose two top players and still give teams a proper hiding.
1. I personally think it’s really boring playing at PSG
2. We cannot compete with PSG in terms of wages
3. Saliba should not go there, especially with Mbappe still there. He is far worse than Ronaldo in the primadonna department
4. If Saliba chooses to got there, it should be because he wants instant trophies and domination which I still find very very boring at PSG and even Bayern Munich
5. If he chooses to got here due to how we treated him, then what can we say?
6. I believe that if we finish 2nd this season (at least), he will have no problem staying
This is a lazy artical @ Ben Dungate, as you stated “as far as you’re aware Sadiba hasn’t been quoted saying this” so you basically speculating on if he’s said this or not and writing this up, getting it posted and now we all debating on weather his mindsets right or not LOL! IDC what anyone says or thinks tbh, Arsenal under the guidence of MA is probably one of the best clubs to be at right now. Name me a better place for a young up-coming footballer to get developed into the finished artical than our great club?? Barca? PSG?? RM??? Juve????
Appart from ManC/Bayern, I don’t see any other team with better coach than Arsenal have ATM, in fact I put Arsenal second only to MC and Pep and even there, its more difficult to break Into the 1st team or even get a y game time to develop coz of the pressure for them to deliver instantly!!!
So for me I rate The Arsenal as the best club for any young nd up coming player to learn nd perfect his trade! The proof is in the pudding with our young team nd we can all see the improvements both mentally nd on the pitch so COYG… We on the up so watch this space,,, and for all that don’t want to be part of this, I gladly say babye baby nd we keep it moving!
We are gonna be one of the best teams in the world in a season or two so let the paper talk be the paper talk, we gon be kings of the EPL/Europe soon nd they gon all be queuing up to be coached by MA nd to be part of our great nd beloved club.
COYG
If you read the full article you would know it is not “about” Saliba or any thing he is likely to do. He’s basically talking about ANY young players who just want trophies on a plate. As Ben clearly stated in his comments.
Thank you, Pat 👍
But Salibas name was mentioned numerous times in the article as a reference. If it wasn’t about Saliba, then i need to go back to school. His name was used 4 times.
I mentioned him because it was reading an article about him being linked to PSG that inspired the thought process for the article. Nothing more.
Im sorry, i read it again and i just cant see anything other than it relating to Saliba.
There is nothing called Instant success. U’hv got to work your ass out for any form of success
I have never seen “U’hv” before. The English language at its finest. Completely made-up contraction that is perfectly understandable
But, they can’t just leave, unless of course their contract is up.
I cannot understand how Saliba has managed to divide the Arsenal family.
He came to us as a talent in waiting as a teenager with a big price tag. Somehow, we are still harping on about what was but not what is now in terms of his development.
He is absolutely integrated into the first team. Has the support of Arteta, his team members and very clearly the 60 odd thousand who go to the Emirates. What is the problem?
The so called”problem” dear Sue, is that when some have been posting doom laden agendas for the whole of MA’s time as manager, our current huge success means they have egg on their faces and they resent being proved wrong.
That is why THEY have the “problem” You I and the rest of us do NOT have a problem, but something glorious to look forward too.
There will always be outliers in any social media site and those few well known names are ours on JA.
I would only be concerned if they were happy, as then we would be in trouble.
Sue, there is no problem, the “problem” is made up, there is a discussion. I was told a long while ago that Saliba and his agent were not happy with his treatment by someone who works for a law firm, who deals in sports contract and in the know. The problem is between player and manager not people on here(well not most) you can take what i say with a pinch of salt, that is your right. I believe what i was told, it isnt opinion and i hope it isn’t a problem in the future because i want Saliba to stay. My opinion is based on a fact i was told, if others cant or dont want accept that and make their own minds up that up to them. My problem is the way the odd idiot gets personal not the debate. Most of us except one are civil and civilised. The debate was just that until the elephant in the room joined in and got personal. I like debate with intelligent people, i dont like at all when people spoil it. Like i say, my info is something i have to go on, why should i think differently, nobody has to believe me, if they dont want too, its a free country but dont shoot the messenger.
Thats my take on why he may not be leaving for “instant success” at all. He will go or stay on his own personal decision. It will be nothing to do with instant success or a project.
I wasn’t aware that you had information that the rest of us are not privy to, Reggie. My view on WS at the time was that he was not the finished article so that to get uppity for want of a better word, was premature in his part.
I do believe that the player and Arteta/the club must have been ironed out issues that exist. He looks settled on the pitch, supported by his team mates and is certainly not being frozen out.
Are we – in this article- in fact talking about loyalty, when there is virtually no loyalty left?
Saliba – like Saka and Martinelli as young hot property players – may up sticks and get their heads turned. As Durand pointed out earlier, it is up to Arsenal to be ambitious and hopefully we can keep our best players.
I’d rather our very best gave their best to us and went home to retire
I did write it on this site Sue initially about 10 months ago or more. I just got called Anti Arteta by the odd moron🤣 and have since. I just passed on some info i believe and its upto people if they want to believe it or not Sue. I honestly believe it to be correct and i honestly believe it doesn’t necessarily mean curtains on Salibas time but it is something that may mean we dont get a say in where he ends up. It needs addressing, maybe time and trust need building but it isnt about Saliba desperate to sign for us. Not just yet anyway.
@SueP
It really isn’t Salibas who is dividing the family. By all reasonable judgements he has had the perfect development to get to where he is. He wasn’t ready. Was sent on loan to develop, and it succeed.
Saliba is really just one of the hybrid “wars”, between a small anti Arteta minority and the majority, who appreciate Arteta’s work.
This “war” is just beneath the surface in so many discussions, as you can also clearly see from the fact, you have the same people joining up behind each other.
Pity, but it is, what it is.
Anders, what dividing? The discussion is about Saliba. There is opinion and debate going on, only spoiled by the elephant in the room. I was given info months ago, from someone ITK, why should i not write this? The abuse from the narcissist in the room, is spoiling the site, that is all. We all give opinions and debate. I personally have what i believe as insider knowledge and all i get is slaver from mainly one person. Why is debating, banter or opinion dividing? That isnt dividing the site, it cant because thats all it is. Its the abuse that is from one individual that doesn’t respect opinions.
I wasn’t commenting on your dispute with Jon Fox.
I am merely expressing my general opinion, which I believe to be true, and a big part in why a debate about player’s loyalty turns into a Saliba debate, where the same camps repeat their predicted opinions. You would think time and what has transpired, could make for new opinions.
Not always the case.