Disrespecting the late Monarch and disrespecting English fans. by Ken 1945
It seems that there is an example of one of our own players coming into the first category above, and I wonder if he will be dealt with the same condemnation reserved for those football fans who were highlighted in a previous JA article?
It’s being reported, along with photographic evidence, that Kieren Tierney removed his black armband during Scotland’s recent international and his connection with Celtic could explain his actions.
Kieran Tierney controversially removed his black armband, worn by players in memory of the queen, and placed it on the side of the pitch.
He was also seen without it in the second half agaisnt FC Zurich. #Arsenal #afc pic.twitter.com/UEzkniY3Sb
— arsenalentity (@arsenalentity) September 22, 2022
I guess he will be vilified in exactly the same way as those fans who booed the national anthem, and how will he be received at the next home game?
From the reaction to the booing reported during the national anthem being played, when highlighted in a JA article, it will not be a positive one… but as he’s “one of our own” it will be interesting to see if he is condemned in the same way.
Meanwhile, over a 1,000 liverpool fans are taking UEFA and the French FA to court over the injuries and trauma they experienced at last years CL final.
It seems, once again, football fans have been shafted by the establishment, along with the media and others who were so quick to condemn them, without knowing the facts.
Let’s hope that, if the supporters win, they don’t have to wait 30 odd years for justice to prevail.
What do you think on both of these subjects, fellow Gooners?
ken1945
Well I just hope it doesn’t affect his team chemistry in our team, as I may not know our english players view on this act of his, I just wish players should try being flexible on some stuffs, you play in england and in an iconic english club and makes it obvious publicly you have no regard for their queen, it’s not cool at all👎
why should anyone be forced to respect the queen, since most of us had no connection with the queen we felt nothing when shed died and it’s none of our business to mourn her death same to Kieran.
That’s not patriotic of him, let’s call a spade a spade……she doesn’t need to be his grandma for him to show a “Mere respect” to the dead.
I mean this shouldn’t be an argurement or contested, it not a crime but much was expected of him being a public figure and a role model for lots of young people around the world
Arsenal in in England. “When you go to Rome do what the romans do” if not you are welcome to stay in your village (watch you local team”
Maybe he was showing respect for some of the ones who their lives cut should as a consequence of being colonized by the late Queen. Don’t think he is disrespecting anybody.
Rob, can you please give me the list of countries colonised by Queen Elizabeth the 2nd?
What hilarious, though depressing ignorance by RK, Ken!
In your own words Jon… SIGH SIGH SIGH!!!
Jon, my post and questions at 11.15 am?
Answered below KEN!
I don’t get the way you think. Bybyour logic any person that does not take a knee for racism BLM is a racist.
Pffft get over yourselves
I really hope this comment reaches you sir (jon fox)(even Ken1945 whom i’ve grown to respect quite a lot)…I and the world alike are quite aware that the queen meant/represented the very being and perceived persona of the English outside of England. From the comments above it seems like you are not able to see that the interactions of your great nation with the rest of the world were not always positive (vis a vis colonislisation for one)
It’s therefore tough to hear/read that we should all mourn in equal measures for the passing of the Queen
I myself am thankfully not from the school of the subjugated and colonized in their own land but am very thankful I didn’t have to live through it.
I do perceive enough to be offended. Ashamed and saddened by your offhandish remarks to…welll…comment
Sk, first of all, thank you for your personal comment and I appreciate it.
Of course I accept your observations regarding the, now defunct, British Empire and it’s cruelty around the world… but how long are the current UK people expected to wear sackcloth and show penitence?
Should we, in the UK, still bear hatred against the Roman Empire and the Vikings, who raided and destroyed our country, while taking people to become slaves?
Queen Elizabeth the second was not involved in the British Empire was she?
Now, if you don’t want to show her respect, that is your choice – but please don’t blame her for historical happenings before her time.
I have not commented on this subject as in my honest opinion, politics should indeed stay away from football and especially sites like these were most participants are joined by their love for Arsenal. But as i respect you Ken, i will-without trying to provoke- give you the example of Cyprus, which was occupied by England. During the “liberation fight” (1955-1959) Cyprus suffered many casualties. there was a particular list of people that were captured, among them 17-18 years olds that were fighting for the FREEDOM of their country, their families, and they were HANGED by order of the queen, despite several requests were made for their lives to be spared. I repeat, school children that were forced to take up arms to defend their country. How do I know this? Oh well, lets say one of them was a close relative. The context can sometimes vary depending on the impact a person has on someone else’s life. Your hero, my (one of many) villain. I respect everyone here at JustArsenal and it is not my intention to insult anyone, nor Queen Elizabeth, however some matters are rather sensitive and unfortunately hurt, therefore when someone is being questioned about a valid point they made, i feel obliged to respond.
Chris A, thanks for your response and, while I can empathise with you, I can’t agree that the Queen could have stopped anything.
As Herr Drier said in a previous article, our monarchy does not have any REAL power, that was abolished way back in time.
I’m not sure what one can do today, with regards to the actions taken over 65 years ago, except to hope that we all learn by our mistakes.
Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case, as we learn about the atrocities being performed by Russian troops.
I hope you find some kind of peace in your lifetime.
Ken, thank you very much for taking the time to respond, i appreciate it. Back then, it was a different era, as you are well aware. I kind of disagree as i think that asking to stop the hangings would have convinced the executing officers (when she visited the island in person). Anyway, i do understand how people in England feel about their queen, the love and the respect they have for her. My response was solely about the comment for the countries that were colonised, and how it justifies THESE people not paying the same amount of respect to her as the people who loved and cherished her. Even if she could not stop the hangings (which i doubt), how can someone ask people from a country that suffered from England to pay their respects to the Queen of England (even if she had 0 leverage as you say to any of these matters). Its contradicting in my opinion. I feel the same way i would feel when hearing the news that any person died, especially a person of that age. Thoughts that she had a lengthly life and now she will rest. We CANNOT mourn for her death though. I hope you understand where i am coming from and that i have conveyed the message well (English is my second language as you have probably realized, haha).
Forgot to respond on your last two paragraphs.
These actions cannot be forgotten of course, but life goes on and no people from the new generation will feel resentment towards England, in fact most Cypriots like, visit and -like myself- have grown attached to many things related to England, either sports, shows etc. There are even English “military” bases still in several cities (there are many Englishmen in Cyprus, have made many friends throughout the years), my house is built in Limassol but situated in “United Kingdom” as per google maps.
As far as the comment about the Russian troops is concerned, i could not agree more. War is a terrible thing…Half of our country is still occupied by Turkey, but that is a story for another time, another forum.
So pleased to have discussed this very difficult subject with the you Chris… thanjs for taking the time.
Probably none werecolonised by Her. Many countries around the world were colonised but not in my lifetime and not in her lifetime either I suspect. The Commonwealth of nations was set up and it included some countries that were not colonised at all ad some that were did not join the organisation.
The man is a Scot. There might be something deeper.
He was not disrespecting the Queen. He cannot mourn her because his heritage don’t recognise the British monarch. The Christian Irish Celts are very fiercely proud of their heritage. If he’s gonna do parroting, then he might not able to go back home peacefully.
Then why are you here in the UK. Regardless to whether you were born here or not.
(ADMIN COMMENT – Edited to delete ridiculous political rant)
i have been passing through comments by urs is the best
Human beings are so good at condemning than checking negativities in themselves too!!!! I’m sure most of you here who are blasting Tierney can do much worse than him in other areas of Life. Let’s learn to minimize negative things and allow love and forgiveness to shout out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We love you Tierney!! And respect to the queen legacy!!! We are different but one love!!!!!!!!!!
No-one is forced to but just simply being courteous and showing respect costs nothing. Doesn’t matter who you are. Maybe he shouldn’t have left Celtic if he doesn’t respect the Country where he earns his living or was the bigger salary too much of a pull 🤔
People should grow up. A sizeable majority oppose the monarchy for whatever reason. All should be free to deal with the death of a 96 year old woman in their own way. It is nothing short of bullying to expect us all to conform to the ‘norm’.
No one expects anything from people !! either you arent a coward and yellow or you are !! Its as simple as that !! Either you do not agree with the monarch or you do !! its that simple !! if you do not like it then live the UK and find some where that doesnt have a monarch and be happy !! do not just be yellow and weak and stay living in a country that has a monarch !! there are hundreds of countries on this planet !! if you do not like a country that has a Monarch then just do the right thing and leave or just shut up and deal with it !! the Majority or the country loves the monarch the minority doesnt !! but these times its the minority that always wins as democracy !! has been all but killed off by the woke left remoaners
So people that don’t love the monarchy are lefties?
You are just funny @carl
From your post, you are not a coward, not yellow (!), you are an UN-woke, right-wing Brexiteer, and you want anyone that doesn’t agree with you to leave the country.
Please don’t tell me you are an Arsenal supporter!!!!
Bro he can be an arsenal supporter AND a dickhead (I’m not saying he is )
Tierney is not working for the British government. He works for an American employer.
While it is important to obey the host country’s laws, I think mourning is by choice and not legally binding.
Heard about globalisation?
That’s where we are now.
A sizeable majority oppose the monarchy?
I didn’t know that. I’d be interested to know your source
Can you prove a majority do support the crown and that those figures are not rigged by those in power.
Thats what I thought
No and I never said I could
You all have been conforming to the liberal norm in UK for while now is it so hard to respect a political figure of the country you live in ? I swear the Brits as so privileged that they don’t even know the significance of the crown to their well being honestly you guys don’t know how easy your life is
Sorry should say sizeable minority!
Do you know that as a statement of fact?
…but that’s a contradiction in terms😆
The camera was on the poor lad during the Ukraine match when he was fully participating in the 1 or 2 minutes of applause…
If England was forced to live under Putin and other imperialistic rulers, would you “offended” folk be sad at his passing and want to wear a band to respect him?
Tierney is not protesting against a 96 year old granny, he’s just protesting against forced rule of his people by an imperialistic and tyrannical force.
So, in two whole sentences you managed to equate the queen to Putin, call her a “granny” and then lurch into the most ridiculous misrepresentation of fact I’ve seen here.
The “imperialistic and tyrannical force” you mention… would that be the same one that granted a referendum as recently as 2014, in which the terribly oppressed people decided… to stay in the UK?
Please feel free to twist a few more inconvenient facts to fit your jaundiced world view, I won’t bother reading/responding, so fill yer boots.
I would not be at all pleased if Tierney had meant this as a sign of “disrespect”. I am a scot myself, but I am british too! I would not see K.T. in the same way if their was truth in this.
He didn’t disrespect the Queen he didn’t say or do anything disrespectful. If he came out and said something against her I might be on your side with this but not everyone likes or monarchy and if they show it the way kieran did i can respect it.
The man wares shorts and t-shirt in the winter and just like me might not like having things like that on me as it affects my concentration. People will always make a mountain out of a mole hill.
An welcome different style of JA article. That was my first thought. Secondly, I was not, until now, aware of this being so. Thirdly, the liberal in me -though I am also a staunch Monarchist – believes in allowing ALL individuals to do as they wish, albeit within the law.
Fourthly, I much believe that far too many of us are what I would call” the professionally insulted class” , which actually TRIES to find insults, where none are USUALLY intended.
I find that unthinking and typical of the personal human design fauts with which all WE humans have to go through life.
As an older, perhaps now slightly wiser man than when I was young, I say let’s overlook this actIon. In life’s grand scale it is hardly worthy of note and taking deliberate insult about. So was Tierney unwise then? Well, that depends entirely on how you see life.
To me, he was airing his free will, though social media being what it is , he will probably be pillaried. Kens piece seems to indicate that he is already being pillaried.
As for me , I now have far more important things to do , like preparing the vegetables for when my dear Sue returns from church to cook our lovely dinner.
I PREACH CONTEXT to us all, myself included.
Though I realise, even while writing the word “context”, that context does not make headlines. And headlines is what keeps so called “news” stories alive .
Meanwhile, the plight of UYGHUR MUSLIMS AND THE DANGER TO THE BRAZILIAN RAINFOREST FROM THE COMING BRAZILIAN ELECTION is sadly virtually ignored. C’est la vie, sadly!
Though I still found this article a welcome change from theu usual unfounded gossip on JA.
Preach @ JonFox
I realise that I FOOLISHLY NEGLECTED to answer Kens pertinent last paragraph questions.
My guess is, that like most other decent football fans everywhere, I share their outrage at the cruel and heartless way in which passionate and decent Liverpool fans were treated, both during and ever since the Hillsborough tragedy all those years ago AND at last years CL final.
Praise to Ken for raising this IMPORTANT subject!
Jon, three things my friend do you read the Daily Mail and, if so, have I criticised you for doing so?
Secondly, I take it you weren’t preparing the vegetables, when you replied so eloquently to Dan Smiths article about football fans booing the national anthem?
By the way, personal life means I will be away from 10/10 until the 19/10… some really good games taking place at The Emirates.
Before I put my s/t in for trading at the Arsenal, would you be interested?
Hi kEN yes , I do read the Mail, thougn I have to admit its mostly for the excellent football(and cricket too, another passion of mine) coverage and espfor the magnificent Martin Samuel, a widely know West Ham fan and wise and evolved human. Much of its politics, not always but often, is too right wing for me though, but as I am at least a believer in capitalism as the best way to getpractical fairness for all, I do have a certain philosophy in common with that paper.
As for you asking have you ever rcriticised my reading it, I have no idea but remember no such thing, to my knowledge No idea WHY you asked me but there we are!
As for the vegetables – carefully avoiding the obvious description of “Spuds fans – no I had NOT done them when writIng earlier but have just eaten them prior to typing this, having been playing bowls since 1pm til now. Bowls is yet another one of my several life passions, these days as an oldie.
And its a definite yes for the season ticket, provided I can make some quick rearrangements to my daily bowls schedule, which I expect to be able, depending on what game/ date you have in mind?
Do let me know and thanks for thinking of me. I am touched – as many have said about me for decades past -but let that pass!
KEN according to our fixture list I see we have no home game planned for Oct 10-19.
IF you meant by any chance the Liverpool game then yes and I’d grab the chance. But that date does not match your holiday, it seems??
Jon.
Thursday 6/10 Glimt (possibly?!?!)
Sunday 9/10 Liverpool
Thursday 20/10 PSV
You have my phone and email, so please contact me to discuss.
As for the Daily Mail, I was described as being hypocritical, because I had, it seemed, had a go at you for reading said paper,… while quoting from it with regards to Liverpool fans booing the national anthem.
Like you, I have no recollection of this, but just wanted to check.
God news then KEN! YES to the Liverpool game please.
Both Thursdays , however, are very difficult, as I play in a regular Thursday evening bowls comp til 7.15 and am a team captain. Later in the football season it becomes easier to make some Thursdays but I have to turn down your kind offer THIS time.
IF that makes it awkward for you and “trading” ref the Liverpool game AND both Thursday games, then please do not let my keenness for the Liverpool game affect your plans.
I will phone you tomorrow but later in afternoon or early evening. Good to catch up after far too long, old chum.
Hey Jon, no shame in reading the Mail. I used to read it for the late Ian Wooldridge, but mostly these days for the exposes of benefit fraudsters & scammers etc.
The queen means different things to different people. For us she is a symbol of colonial loot and exploitation. I will not condemn KT. He did the right thing
@ClassyGunner. When you say “for us”, who are you representing?
every country that was tajen iver by the Britain empire and forced countless people into slavery.
It has not been forgotten and so it should not be.
If you disagree, you are pro slavery.
I guess he means people like me Jax. The Queen is gone and best forgotten, this is the story of Johnny Rotten, as Neil Young sang. Wonder what Arsenal fan and ex Sex Pistol, Jonny Lyndon has made of the past fortnight’s hoopla? I still have my original copy of the God Save the Queen single Lyndon being a money grubbing opportunist, I wouldn’t be surprised if he revelled in the royal love fest. Regarding Tierney it is ok to not approve of his actions but it is not OK to make him out as a pariah. He was simply listening to his heart.
The 56 odd countries colonized, looted and exploited by Britain.
I’m sure that if they were aware of your unsolicited efforts on their behalf they’d still be very appreciative
.😁
Oh!!!! Attempted humour???
Jax, as we were by the Romans and the Vikings!!
I wouldn’t be overly offended by his action. He doesn’t have to mourn the passing of the Queen if he doesn’t want to.
I’d be pretty peed off though if KT had booed my National anthem. I wouldn’t be rude enough to disrespect the NA of another country even if I disapproved of how it was run.
I had and still have enormous sympathy for what happened to those poor sods at Hillsborough and the Sun newspaper’s role in it and the disgraceful cover up by the police. Booing the national anthem is their right as we are lucky enough to have free speech but I can’t condone it.
Sue P I notice how very often we think alike on so many things, quite apart from just our team thoughts and Arsenal matters.
I truly value your JA input, as wise, mature and well considered.
We don’t care the same Queen was their during colonial period she never cared especially Africans. Why will we mourn her. She entertained torturing Africans she deserves no respect.
100%, agreed @Iaban Waswa
Western democracies always evangelize “human rights” and “freedoms”. Well, isnt Kieran exercising his rights? He does not feel the same way as the English about their monarch and its not like he talked abt it. why is a mere armband an issue? Cmon lets focus on bigger issues.
KT took the black armband and PLACED it on the side of the pitch….KT did not throw or toss the armband and that’s important to note
A sign of disagreement with bit of respect
I don’t see what’s the problem because KT isn’t British and don’t need to revere the British monarch
I can relate to KT
She wasn’t my Queen and I feel nothing towards the Queen and there is no need to morn her
I am Xhosa and when the Zulu king passed away the province of Kwa Zulu Natal was in morning for a week…the rest of us didn’t care….not my king and it’s not for me to morn him
Grow up. Respecting an entity, people, a country and individuals are extremely different things. As long as Tierney respects Arsenal, its supporters and philosophy, that is all we need. The monarchy’s history has a lot to celebrate and mourn about. For me Tierney’s action is a non issue.
Perhaps wait to see if Tierney himself cares to speak on the matter. Unfortunately some like Carl jump to conclusions without knowing any facts or context.
The adults in the room will wait to hear from Tierney if he chooses to speak.
Must we force others to see the world as we do? Must they behave in the same manner?
Sad state of things if so.
The queen was legendary for exerting soft power over disreputable leaders. Her approach was almost certainly a force for good in balance. For her the price of peace might have been to shake the hand of a murderer or torturer. Respect definitely due.
Stop it with this disrespect thing. The Queen is dead and gone. And life moves on she doesn’t know Tierney and if so it will be on TV. Seems most of u British folks are taking too seriously/emotionally. Well my opinion tho.
I see a lot of people talking and arguing if Tierney disrespected the Queen or not. But what is respect? Is it earned or enforced? Should the Queen be respected simply because she was the Monarch or should she be respected because she lived a life that earned respect?
Depending on who is viewing the two sides. To some she should be respected because of her position to others because of the life she lived. When it comes to the Queen’s life there are people who hold her in high regards and view her as a calm and great personality. But there are others who don’t view her that way. There are people who where against her rule because of all the atrocities committed under her rule. To the English she brought peace and prosperity, so you should expect a show of respect for her from them and those who are beneficiaries of her goodwill and good governance. But what about others? People like the Africans who where maped our during the Berlin Conference. It is a fact she aided colonialism where Africans and others were taken as slaves during the industrial revolution. They where made to work in plantations. Beaten and suffered. This brought about great prosperity for Britain as a whole but at the expense of the lives and freedom of the slaves. There are others too within Britain who reject her rule, people like the Celts where Tierney happens to come from. They see her rule as a forced governance and oppression. Scotland as a whole has been yearning for independence. These are historical facts and not make ups.
Now if you take these two later groups into consideration what do you think their reaction will be to the Queen’s death? Obviously they won’t feel any moral right to respect her or concur with any form of respect given to her because of what she represented to them. Tierney is a full grown man who has freedom of speech and expression. He has freedom of believes too. So if he doesn’t deem it necessary to wear the black armband then that’s fine by him. He owes no one any explanation. He is governed by his conscience as to what he views right or wrong, worth doing or not worth doing. Let the young man be.
@Chapo you are one of the wisest gooners I have read comments from on JA.Your wealth of wisdom is not limited to football ,but also extends to life in general. I don’t know your age,but you certainly sounds like someone with older head. Real gooner talk
@Soccerboy Thank you. I’m a young man though.
very well said, amazing how they conveniently forget the slavery she caused.
I am lucky enough to have not been born in that era.
We were talking about a Scotsman who at this moment in time hails under the British flag
I wasn’t aware we were going through our history of subjugating parts of Africa
May I add that many Africans have found their way to our shores and have been welcomed and flourished.
I’d also like to add that slavery exists today by those who were born and raised in Africa. It is not a simple statement that you have made to condemn the colonial rulers of the time who undoubtedly did wrong and absolve some of the cruelty that exists on that continent today.
Sue P, don’t go there, it is a historical quagmire. Aside frome the dedication of people like Wilberforce slavery was not an easy thing to give up especially by those making a profit from it. In order to appease those who built large estates from the profits of slave labour the British government had to give out large amounts of money to compensate the poor rich men’s losses. It was a bit like the current policy of paying out carbon credits to polluters. Nod your head in disapproval but don’t condemn Tierney for disrespecting an institution he has no empathy for.
I haven’t Joe
He is free not to mourn and I have posted as such
And it is a quagmire
Frankly, what a load of tosh. Who was the monarch of Great Britain during the Berlin Conference [1884-1885]? Who was the monarch of Great Britain during the Industrial Revolution? Do you frankly want us to believe that Elizabeth II lived during the 18th century? In your rush to commit character assassination, having the right facts was the first casualty. Anyway, to add my two cents to the topic at hand Tierney could have simply declined the armband when they were passed out, instead of knowingly creating drama.
kpankulu, totally agree with all you say, except for the last sentence.
Our media and/ or pundits would have spotted it immediately and reported it, just have they have done with him, seemingly, taking it off during two matches.
Kpankulu, preach fella 👍👏👏👏
In all fairness to KT and all Brits, we should wait for him to explain his actions before we judge him. At the moment it seems like a strange act and only he knows why he did what he did. Britain is a democracy, and everybody has their own views and opinions. But for now we are all wondering why KT did that. So before we condemn we need to wait for the hearing. Hopefully he will explain soon.
If KT sees fit to put the black band to the side he’s entitled to do so. There is a freedom of expression here (UK) that’s not prevalent elsewhere. He will have is reasons for doing as he did – as will others.
So long as he remains fit and realizes his full potential in the arsenal shirt what has his opinions on the queen or monarchy got to do with the price of bread or with the current upward trajectory of the arsenal football team?
Would you also say it’s the perogative of one to boo the national anthem, after all, isn’t that a freedom of expression?
Did he booo the queen, no. get over it Ken.
Sad how you trying to make something out of nothing.
Support your player and team as any loyal supporter would.
But you didn’t answer my question and I didn’t say he booed the national anthem did I?
All I’m asking you is do your views also include anyone who actually DID boo the national anthem?
Is that such a hard question to answer?
Although wearing a black armband can be considered a sign of respect, NOT wearing one is not a sign of disrespect. Actions become irrelevant when individuals are forced to adopt them or be demonised – you only need recall English football continuing to boo anyone not taking the BLM knee months after all other bodies had abandoned it and the American founding BLM movement had itself been discredited.
Please stop trying to polarise our society -democracies are SUPPOSED to allow and be tolerant of freedom of thought, speech and action. Stop the hating of anyone with a different opinion to yourselves or your government.
Guy, would you consider your first sentence to apply to wearing the poppy in remembrance of those fallen in the two world wars?
I’m intrigued as to your thinking my friend and have no other ulterior motive!!
Yes Ken. I do not class simple non-participation in something as necessarily being either disrespectful or directly opposed to it, regardless of my own position. But even more importantly, we MUST allow people to have their own opinions without recrimination or censorship as to not do so is the road to totalitarianism, which in the west seems to be the way we are going.
👍👍
Why should one need to wear a poppy to respect them, absurd they way you think.
I agree with you, so is my way of thinking still absurd to you?
The last time I remember, Matic didn’t wear the poppy while at Manchester united
I was intrigued to see what the response would be, following on from Dan’s article concerning football fans disrespecting the Queen by booing the national anthem.
There are some names who went full tilt at those few fans who did actually boo ( taking into account the number of fans who attended games where the national anthem was played) yet, it seems, are reluctant to voice their condemnation regarding Tierney and his removal of the armband that actually WAS showing respect for the Queen.
I agree we should wait and see if Kieren wants to explain his actions, but shouldn’t we have also explored the reasons behind those minority of fans who booed the national ANTHEM, before launching an all out attack?
Just like the condemnation of Liverpool fans at Hillsborough and the CL final, it was the fans who were deemed to be the problem and football itself was promoted as the breeding ground for hooligans.
I’ve been watching The Arsenal since 1952 and have never been involved in any kind of hooliganism… of course I know it went on, but it was very easy to walk away from the epicentre of any trouble, unless that’s what you wanted from a football match.
Unlike Hillsborough and the Parc De France, where it was a deliberate manoeuvre to concentrate a set of fans into a situation where trouble was inevitable.
We, as football fans, should be asking questions and I fully support Liverpool fans who are taking legal action against eufa and the French fa – this could have been ANY set of fans being used to whitewash those in authority who were the REAL culprits, but football fans are an easy target.
I was asked by Pat, what my personal views were concerning Kieren Tierney, when he acknowledged my article.
Firstly Pat, I’m not Scottish, but moved up to the Highlands twenty years ago!!
I believe it is everyone’s right to choose what they feel is correct.
That includes showing frustration at the establishment for 30 years of trying to bury facts… and our Royal family are part of that establishment.
The words of the anthem make direct reference to the Queen of course and, after exhausting all the avenues in trying to bring justice for the 97 fans, this, in my view, is the only way left for them to show their contempt for said establishment.
Would I do it? If I’d lost my two daughters in this way, most certainly I would have done it.
Tierney should explain his actions, but again, it’s his choice and who are we to judge him?
Finally, I noted that rugby, cricket, horse racing were all quite prepared to go back to the “norm” much earlier than the downtrodden football fans and their choice of sport.
No consideration was given to the time, money and organisation that fans lost out on when the FA decided to do this… as usual, no fans were considered, we just had to get on with it.
Drinking, betting, shouting, cheering were all acceptable at these “elite” sports, while we football fans were told to show respect… funny old world.
All the above who are blaming the Queen for our history, I ask just one question, and you now going to blame King Charles?
Such considered wisdom! As you know KEN I speak as a true liberal, who passionately believes infreedom for all, as long as it is not outside the law .
I am also a staunch believe rin thr power of British Monarchy to use its SOFT POWER and as a bulwark against possible rogue governements.
So would I invent a Monarchy today if it had never existed? No I would not, but nor would I willingly end something that has been a source of peace, humanity and compassion, ever since lets say, Queen Victoria.
I remind SOME folk that Queen Elizabeth 2 is as far from the like of Henry 8 as its possible for any human to be . Wise fans look at how MONARCHY IS TODAY and do not compare it to centuries ago.
To Ad PAT, I think THIS thread, so well supported by diverse Gooner opinion has shown how some non specific team matter articles CAN AND WOULD ATTRACT many posts.
I ask you to seriously consider allowing more articles that do NOT focus purely on team or player issues, but which look at wider human issues.
I have often sent posts and articles that do not focus much at all on specific Arsenal matters and I applaud this article of KENS, (and its many replies, which range from the thoughtful and wise to the ignorant and uninformed) as being one of the very best for a long time.
I’d appreciate being allowed to do more in this human interest vein and less that are so “team/player” specific, PLEASE!!
Jon
I have found that this topic has divided my thought process to a point where several posts are discussing topics that are not relevant to Arsenal. The club took millions in sponsorship from a nation that hasn’t got a glowing human rights CV and I’m being held to account for the actions of my fore fathers going back more than 150 years
I’d rather it was based on football
Sue P , I think that Arsenal IS the topic and possibly the only one that united SUPPORTERS on JA. And it IS certainly “based on football” and that cannot serioulsy be argued against.
However, I thnk the large amount of posts on this article by comparison to some threads that say nothing of relevance, but reported gossip on Arsenal rumoured “incoming” players, which are largely ignored, shows us the value of human interest stories.
So broadly, I take a different view from you on this matter.
In todays world I say it is impossible to divorce elite football from human issues threads and I am glad of that , too!
I don’t see what all the fuss over KT taking off his armband is about. He seems a decent enough young fella and owes an explanation to nobody, especially sad, flaky JA readers.
Honestly…take a look at yourselves.
A pleasant enough woman who never did a days work in her life was given millions and millions otax payers money, lived in palaces & castles, travelled the world free lived to a great age of 96 and died peacefully. No requirement to show public respect.
This whole black armband thing is completely out of control anyway and should be dropped. If the clubs feel that we should honour past players & royals etc who’ve died just put a tribute up on the screens or make an announcement instead of forcing players into fake mourning.
That’s why Just Arsenal should be that and I don’t understand the need for your first paragraph at all
If anybody could’ve just ignored it would’ve come to nothing that it was in the first place. But not in today’s world. Some exist only to stir problems where there is none.
HH, I believe you are French, so how would you describe your country’s behaviour to one set of fans during last year’s CL final and should we REALLY just ignore it?
Sweep it under the carpet until the next time football fans get pilloried for something they didn’t do?
The sad thing is, it was fans of The Arsenal who sided with the establishment, when it could just as easily have been our own fans who were targeted!!
Imo, taking off his black armband is no way as bad as booing the National Anthem. People who booed the National Anthem and the minutes silence the other weekend, and during their European games, could so easily have stayed on the concourse until the both had finished.
Likewise, Tierney could have kept his armband on until the end of the game, as it seems the other players did.
I can’t actually recall ANY other player taking off an armband that was representing the passing of a noted person.
Yes he could, but as I posted, removing it is no way as bad as booing the NA.
As for anyother player removing their armband, pretty sure Moses threw his on the ground after being sent off against us in the FA Cup Final a few years ago.
Not a viable comparison really is it, unless you think he was disrespecting the Queen by being sent off?!
Views and opinions are individual things and fans in this article have shown how diverse they are.
Everyone (in this country anyway) is free to express their views / opinions / feelings within the boundaries of the law we live under and I wouldn’t want to change that.
So, in my opinion, Tierney has nothing to apologise for and neither does that one fan you identified…. along with the other fans who expressed their god given right to do so.
All equal in my book, just some protests seem more out of place than others, but who am I to judge?
And of course, the only person he was acknowledging as “passing” was himself, as he was sent from the field of play!!
I like tiernay as a footballer .. and respect him even more after this incident which I had missed .. the basic lack of knowledge of post ww2 British foreign policy exhibited in above posts is staggering
I do not think so since himself is as referred as a country man,onto that he had his reasons
Big difference between placing your armband on the side of the pitch and someone throwing it away after being sent off. The reason Arsenal and Chelsea were wearing black armbands that day was for the people that were murdered in the Manchester bombing !
Btw, it wasn’t just one Scouser that booed during the minutes silence against Ajax, there was a few more after the shussing finished. That’s why the Ref had to finish the minutes silence early !!
So we have to ask the question HD, did he throw his armband away because he was sent off, or was it because he was disrespecting those who died in the Manchester bombings?
I think it was the former – meanwhile KT had no reason whatsoever, apart from his views on the monarchy, to place his armband gently on the side of the pitch and while it seems no other player did that, once again, that’s his perogative….. just as it was the perogative of the small number of football fans who booed the national anthem around the UK (excluding Celtic and Dundee United of course).
I can’t recall any negative reaction from football fans regarding their showing respect for those who were killed or injured in the Manchester bombing, but that wouldn’t have made the headlines regarding the classless, negative, disrespectful football fans would it?