I don’t think it is too harsh on Arsenal and Arsene Wenger to say that the win away to Sunderland was a bit on the lucky side. The Gunners did score twice and keep a rare clean sheet, but that was mostly down to the poor performance of the home side rather than any real quality on our part.
Wenger’s team selection and tactics were, for me, a little negative and suggested that the manager and the players are fairly low on confidence. With Sunderland having been handed a proper pasting at Southampton, a confident Gunners team would have ripped into them straight away and would probably have put the game to bed by halftime.
As it was, Arsenal had plenty of possession but very little penetration and we were only ahead at the break thanks to a shocking mistake by Wes Brown. Alexis Sanchez took full advantage and finished well, giving former Gunner Vito Mannone no chance, but even then we failed to really capitalise and push on.
The referee was fussy and I thought that we coul;d finish the game with 10 men and we also gave Sunderland plenty of encouragement to push for an equaliser, especially as the Arsenal players, with Cazorla most culpable, spurning good chances to finish the game off.
Alexis finally did grab a second but it was another defensive error from Mannone rather than quality play from us that gave the Cilean the chance. But at the end of the day it is two wins in a row and the confidence and performances should grow accordingly.
Alexis sanchez 2-0 sunderland coyg!
Good Lord. And i thought he played for us.
Who here thinks anyone else than Sanchez from the team could’ve gotten the chances from which he scored?
Maybe Walcott but others than these 2 would’ve never pressed the Sunderland players like Alexis did today.
OX – shameful display. It’s an insult to Sanchez to play him in the same lineup.
Arsenal needs to start sending all these kids (wilshere,Ox etc on loan to clubs where they would be made to work their socks off,and learn how to defend.
Seeing oxlade and Wilshere jogging back after losing possession time after time ,even when they have not achieved anything,is painful to watch.
Just compare alexis to them. Pathetic really.
Some scolded me when I said that the Everton kid who just came back from injury is a better player.
It’s only Arsene Wenger that will play Ox ahead of Cambell, Arteter (or Flamini) ahead of Ramsey and Wilshere in No 10 position ahead of Ozil.
I think it’s time Arsene Wenger quits honorably
Thank you so much ALEXIS SANCHEZ you made my Birth Day thx big time.
what is wrong with wenger?
what happened to his brains??
ramsey wilshere combination doesn’t work just as arteta flamini.
what was he waiting for when carzola was clearly injured???
hadn’t it been the injury to gibbs, i think an equaliser was the only thing going to make go for a substitute.
Any ways we won
Just give Wenger a little more time and he will coach the quality out of Sanchez just like he is doing with so many other players.
@ArnSam Happy Birthday Buddy !!!
Alexis 8 goals.
Guys this man is the 30 goals forward that we needed. Now we Have everything to succed, problem is the incompetent manager
No, the problem is the other 10 lazy muthafkkaz who ain’t up to his level…
I think Wilshere was awful today, he is always the reason we play bad and we lose, Ozil the same, 42 m for nothing, he was shocking, Giroud missed 3 sitters. They should not play anymore. Oh wait….. They didnt play, who do we blame now?
So, 3 players we have blamed every time we dropped points, havent play today and it was one of our worst performances, we won becasue of sunderlands mistakes and Sanchez persistance. At this point you realize its not the players, its the manager.
Now whats our excuse?
Pathetic performance. Glad that only Alexis will make headlines tomorrow as he’s only 1 who showed hunger. Poor guy Campbell, his face clearly shows he made a mistake sticking with us this summer.
cannot beliieve with the Ox playing so shit still campbell cannot a get a look in! this is pure favoritism
It’s because he’s English the same goes for Wilshere always playing poorly but still starting games!
Frimpong had it right…
The English core favoritism might be the end of us. Yes, they are more loyal, but that doesnt mean they have more quality and deserve a starting spot. Starting spots should be based on performances, which is why underperforming players like The Ox and Wilshere should be dropped and be replaced by fresh players like CAMPBELL.
silly… wilshere should have started over arteta or cazorla both of whom have been useless this season… mert monreal flamini arteta should have been benched or dropped at end of last season and replaced with quality alternatives…though am having my doubts about ox…hasnt progressed over last 2 years…we are not doing basics right begiining in defence and nothing to do with english just the idiocy of the french twat of a manager
We would have lost that match or get another scrappy draw with wilshere, who like running into other players spaces thereby affecting the team’s fluidity.
Ox is playing like when they first joined..he simply runs without thinking.
That is your opinion, the manager picks the people who perform best from week to week.
Ox is full of energy and drive. You guys panic too easily. Poldi and Campbell will get lots of playing time.
Personally I prefer Poldi/Campbell coming in at minute 60. Subbing in at 70′ leaves too little time to affect the game.
Rosicky was thrown into the game to prevent crap happening in the midfield at the last minute.
ARSENAL NEEDS TO SHOOT MORE.
SANTI MISSED HIS CHANCES.
you know a sh*t….. perform best??? hahahah, sure, tell that to wilshere, flamini and ox….. pathetic AKB…
Im countin down wenger leavin’
Shouts out to wes brown and vito.
We are poor like every game.
We needed two mistakes to beat the worst team in the league by a mile
Wilshere, Ramsey and OX are starting week after week until they are in form. Podolski, Campbell, Rosicky need only one bad match to be benched for months.
On the same page. When the latter three you mentioned played vs Sot’on in cup after the game people gcame here and said now you know why Wenger doesn’t play them, and then you see the first three players you mentioned playing badly for 5+ games in a row, then why doesn’t Wenger drop them?
I can respect the logic of Wenger playing players despite being off form.
But all the players should be treated equally by this logic.
British players are playing badly, fans call out them to benched – Wenger still plays them.
The other suspects play badly, fans call out them to benched – so Wenger benches them.
Given the 10th anniversary of the invincibles etc, I suddenly started comparing the current team and the invincibles and there is not 1 area where we measure up. Trying to win the league with Arteta as the holding mid field is a joke- like it is playing Monreal at CB. I watched Song play today and I could not understand why in hell we did not get him for a season long loan..he was enormous against man city until the yyellow card ! I can may be still understand the Fabregas saga but ignoring song- madness ..I do not mind losing ..we have lost quite a bit in the past but we would play sleek eye catching football. Now its all a sham..every player other than Sanchez does not seem to know what to do with the ball when in possession. Did u see he incessant waving of the hands by sanchez urging the rest of thhe players to press- while Ox keeps walking !
This is not a secret at all. There is always favoritism on this team.
Giroud, Sanogo, British core… chances after chances after chances.
Not so favored players, only need one bad game then see the benches for months till someone get injured.
For the past couple of seasons we had Rosicky and Poldi as impact sub and they usually could perform because they had game time. I can tell you that we won’t have an impact sub because all our bench players get rotten and there is nothing they can do to throw the so-call automatic starters off and get some game time and start some game. None of our bench players are in form and good shape.
I can guarantee you when Theo and Giroud come back, the situation will be worse.
Thank you Wenger.
Those were not mistakes made by Sunderland players. That was Sanchez working his azz off and and capitalizing on his efforts.
He’s constantly pressing off the ball. He’s 100% zoned in on every play. All the other players had their back to goal headed back down pitch to set up defending, while Alexis saw the back pass to the keeper and pounced.
He is truly a “whistle2whistle&box2box” player…
So mannone didnt do a howler. That pass wasnt a mistake from wes brown.
Glass half full for u bro ?
They had no confidence an those mistakes showed.
Agree about alexis but they were shocking we were poor as usual
It always is MuffD.
Thing is, without Alexis puttin the press on, those opportunities would have been missed.
Positivity is no bad thing 🙂
Hear u about the pressin, makes u wonder what goes thru his mind when he sees his team mates never do it
It must pzz him off to know end. He saw the Sund players were playin on nerves, and he kept up the pressure on them…
Not gonna happen. you will kiss Pres. Putin before Wenger is ousted.
Agreed. They got thumped 8-0 by a team with a style and good management… We manage to sneak a win thanks to 2 absolute shocking pieces of defending, one of which came in the 90th min, other than that Mannone was a spectator.
Oh boy, oh boy….not only is our defence crumbling (literally, standard Gibbs injury to add to the pile up), but we’re about as good going forward as Stoke. Fun times.
I don’t know thich one was more frustrating..
My Wifi not working or having to watch this Arsenal team play when it actually was working
I really can’t be that happy with this win, we have been so Sh*t so far
There is just absolutely zero cohesion between the team members at the moment, no one looks like he’s giving 100% and it’s frustrating to watch
Exceptions for Gibbs, Chambers and of course Alexis this match
I just dont understand what Wenger doenst like Campbell.
The Ox is playing poorly right now, so Campbell should be giving a chance if Wenger has any sense.
If just 2 other player would press like Alexis then we would score more goals.
Not at all impressed with the performance. Both goals were handed to us. But a win is a win. Clean sheet as well. Sanchez is incredible.
Alexis sanchez currently is arsenals MVP! COYG!
Ozil get better soon
Lol, ain’t it so funny, we always say this, we always look at the injured players to be back but when they are back they do the same rubbish…
ozil and sanchez are the only players with enough brain to create a chance, the other ones are fully retarded.
I like your name Ljungberg’s cool red hair!
So it’s true what they say 🙁
Who will get injured next?? I say Sanchez, Mert or Welbeck. F**king Wenger give some players rest or do some f**king early substitution.
Campbell injured while on the bench.
I agree we cant rest sanchez, we will loose all games. But he is human even he requires rest as he runs whole match.
Gibbs again gone probably for a lengthy period..not with standing how good a player he is ..dont rreally understand how long we are going to persist with him as the first choice !
That means our defence will be Monreal, Mertesacker, Chambers and Bellerin, with no subs to use at all.
Sanchez machine looks better than Ramsey. This guy is crazy closes down defender through out the match.
Alexis isn’t just our most talented player, but also our hardest worker. It’s a shame the rest of the players don’t work as hard as he does out there, because if that was the case we’d have battered Sunderland today.
Ozil for sure our most talented. But doesn’t that just highlight the importance of hard work….
Pad and pen Mesut
Cazorla has the poorest shot accuracy, the guy gets in good scoring positions but always off target or weak shots.. smh
And no more excuses for THE OX, he is absolutely terrible. Sterling has left him so far behind it’s unbelievable..
Monreal is a good left back but a very nervous CB..
Bellerin should start as a RB, I keep being impressed by the young boy..
I thought Monreal has done well for being a makeshift defender.. Agree on everything else though.
When has Mertesacker lost all his composure? Every clearance he made was a mindless splash to S’land’s side.
To start with, i like that no non-sense attitude..I personally feel that we do too much tiki taka near our own penalty box when under pressure from the opposition. It is an accident waiting to happen (happened quite a few times last season). We need to learn to clear the danger !
Without sanchez, we are nothing. Other players should learn from him.
Alexis is the new ‘suarez’, he get us undeserved points like suarez did with Lpool/
Except that he isn’t a cheating c**t like Suarez was 😉
Alexis sanchez is indeed a work horse he is always trying his best to create something out of nothing! Well played again alexis!
Another bizarre performance from some players, thanks alexis for the goals
Not bizarre its called wengers influence.
You can say all you like about Giroud but he gives us more than Welbeck, I have been watching Welbeck but his first touch is absolutely terrible, his link up play is terrible and not really impressed.
He can’t hold the ball up or win high balls..
The team just seems so unbalanced and weak all throughout the spine..
And what was SZNY doing?
Each game we see a different side to the team, we call for certain players to start but once they start they can’t take their chances (The Ox)..
Another poor team performance but thank you Alexis for getting us an undeserved 3points,a win is a win that’s all that matters!
I was hoping for substitution at around 65-70. Ox, Welbeck, Cazorla were tired like hell.
Atleast poldi for welbeck after his heroics in last match.
Well done wenger Play 2 Sh*t DMs against a team that just lost 8-0.
Well done wenger wait till the 80th min for subs when we are clearly doing absolute f*ck all going forward.
Well done wenger Play cazorla for a full 90mins when hes having an absolute nightmare.
We won but if we were playing a westham or a swansea we would have lost or drawn we are f*cking woeful.
Did we create any chances???
Wenger went with 2 “DMs” because even he knows he has utterly failed to configure a defense that can hold anything. Sad. Just sad.
Well, Manone contributed to that 2nd goal, I would have suggested that probably cunning Wenger signaled to him that a goal for us and his bank account figure increases miraculously but then Wenger is not cunning and is too stingy for such an action. So I think he, Mannone, felt pity for his former club and decided to donate a goal to them.
Thanx Mannone and Alexis
Something must be wrong. Cazorla, Welbeck are not playing to their standards. I hope it does not rub off Sanchez. Is it that Arsene tries to change their games, thereby affecting their play?
itchi fingers Wenger can’t stand a perfectly normal player, he will be itching to play that player out of position or in a formation that kills tge player’s attributes or as uv suggested, change the players playing style. He should and must retire immediately if Arsenal is to win anything 🙁 🙁 🙁
Wenger seems to find multiple ways of destroying perfectly good players – playing them out of position is certainly one of his failing maneuvers.
MANONE is a GUNNER agent.. Agent manone.. lol
Well played Sanchez, did the rest turn up?
Players need to step up, it’s alright Wenger getting the blame but the players are showing no desire nor heart (bar Sanchez)
See what the great Arsenal has become, soooo bad that even after a win we the fans have very little to celebrate about… thats how bad we’ve become… n the man who calls all the shots, Wenger, is the one to be blamed 🙁 🙁
I can’t see us remaining a one man team a la Spurs with Bale and Liverpool with Suarez but it’s really hard to see where the spark is going to come from. So many players out of form.
How many players will want to remain with Arsenal at this rate?? Certainly Sanchez will get tired of carrying the entire team on his back.
Sanchezi is a beast. I hope he can rub to the other players the commitment and the urgency that he shows in every game he plays.
Watching El Classico..atleast I can see good football.
It has now turned into Sanchez FC, there was not difference between Arsenal and Sunderland. Why do Arsenal players fear the 18 yard box? Our passing was abit ok without Wilshere. I have been telling guys here that we have the most overrated guys but they cant accept. No one has a brain to create a goal apart from Ozil. Arteta made some good passes in the middle so imagine what a world class player will do
The touches and passes were a bit better than the game at Anderlecht. But that is very weak praise indeed. The quality of play was again no where near EPL level. It was in fact terrible again.
Don’t really know what to say. Anymore other than sanchez awesome the rest of the team oh dear. So many good players gone bad, I fear there really is trouble behind closed doors. We’ve never kicked on since losing to an MLS side pre season! Time to blood some young players can they do worse than our first teamers? No poldi, rosicky or campbelltoday why? Wenger trying to play players back into form confidence? Does wenger even know the meaning of a half time hair dryer treatment as per saf? It’s time to manage and dish out some wake up calls to the players. #pumasponsorshipcurse. Together stronger was it? Pah!!
I hear ya, give them young guns pitch time to prove themselves.
i made a huge mistake today. i watched king’s henry videos on youtube and then the match . it was very frustrating
Wenger really needs to go, thumb me down all you want he is no longer motivating our players and it shows on the feild,they dont have any clue what to do
Patience is wearing very thin with even the most loyal Wenger supporters.
Also is arsene playing at England manaher as a hobby? Soemoney aleeadyu has the job AW! His obsession with playing out of form english playetsu is wearing thin. #kickbackfromthefa?
I honestly believe guys there is trouble behind the scenes at Arsenal, maybe the players have had enough, or have too much influence
Players have had enough at arsenal with the way transfers went.remember koz,carzolar,giroud and arteta when they said which players should be signed?quality they demanded?even giroud said he wants real competetion.did our mananger deliver what our players demanded?no
With even mediocre quality Cazorla could have scored 2 goals at game’s end. He did, however, manage to give a fan in the 17th row greetings with the ball.
Thank God for Alexis Sanchez. One thing i know for sure in term of Arsenal season is that we shall finish strongly (and with trophy) despite our lackluster performance with exemption of some players like chambers, Alexis, etc .
We rode our luck, played ok with some decent attacking play, but aside from Sanchez still lack that cutting edge that we had last season.
I still believe this was a good result against a team that had its back to the wall, a decent home record and a point to prove (that they deserve to be in the league and not get beaten 8-0 again..).
You can’t win every game with pretty football, and given our injury list, we are doing ok. We do need to grind out some wins though, to restore our confidence.
I’m still optimistic we can get the season kick started from here, in what is a tough league so far.
Very subjective, your expectations must be very low. OK next time I do better, there will be another next time till the season end, that our players attitudes now.
One word for this game: Embarrassing. (My apologies to Sanchez who did not deserve to be associated with the other players in this game).
WE NEED THEO WALCOTT BACK TO THE STARTING X1 ASAP.SANHEZ DISTRACTS,WALCOTT SCORES.MARK SANCHEZ,WALCOTT SCORES,MARK WALCOTT,SANCEZ SCORS.THAT PAIR WILL BE A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.
Chamberlain lying his way through in the post match interview with BBC on final score.
He learn from his manager.
That how our british players talk that why wenger adores them,wait and listen to sanchez when he tells the fans that we are not doing good,even per is honest
I always watch the highlights and from what i’m reading here it was another poor poor team performance but i’m glad we got the win. Burnely next week should be another easy game for us and an opportunity for walcott to get some game time.
So Liverpool fans are not afraid to protest against the high ticket costs with all kinds of banners at Anfield today while Arsenal fans are content to bend over for the likes of people like $ilent $tan, who took £3 million out of the club. Sure it is his prerogative to do so but it is also the prerogative of fans to stop contributing and paying through the nose for expensive tickets and that useless manager Ar$ene’s £7.5 million salary!
Like one particular banner at Anfield said “Supporters NOT Customers”!!!
ya but maybe arsenal fans are filthy rich and don’t mind paying the prices? maybe the angry fans are a small minority who don’t have much $$?? i don’t know i’m just trying to make sense of it all myself. If most fans are wealthy then they’ll actually brag to their friends (that’s what wealthy people do), money only matters to the poor unfortunately 🙁
News Flash. Once you by the product, you become a customer.
so, arsenal is a business that a club now??
AFC the Club is a damn business. Whether you understand/accept that or not.
There is a significant difference between being flithy rich/ poor AND being taken as mugs by the corrupt board and inept manager with their empty promises, not strengthening the club season after season, 4th place finishes, woeful performances etc etc despite paying over the odds in ticket costs.
@ NY_Gunner (my personal stalker)
Thanks for commenting on my post again as usual. If you don’t have anything of value to say, it might be best to refrain from commenting. If Arsenal was indeed a product as you say, I would have switched brands a looooong time ago.
Don’t flatter yourself dude. If you don’t expect feedback from your posts, then don’t post. That’s how these forums work.
Sorry to be the one to break that bit of news to ya.
Peace. With 2 fingers…
Can anyone tell me what did Wenger say after the match? It must be more interesting than the match itself 😉
He thinks our defence was great. We were very confident..
He doesn’t realise that Sunderland were just a shit above us.
You see benzemas’ goal? That’s how you counter attack!
Pass and keep running.
What our team is currently doing:
“So, there’s a lot of space ahead? Let’s just hold on to the ball”
Then one of our players will turn and pass the ball back because no one makes runs bar Sanchez.
Remember the Arshavin goal against Barca, and the other goals we used to score a few years back?
We need to return to the basics of the game.
This is supposed to be professional football, not your weekend walk in the park with your dog.
Are you going to compare real/barca/bayern/ etc etc with Arsenal?? Wenger is a financial genius and put this club as the top 5 financial clubs in the world! That’s all he’s there to do! put us in the champions league year after year so the club makes money. If he fails to do that, he’s out the door.
No I’m not!!
Did you see the simplicity of that move? No player took more than a single touch.
Our players seem to have forgotten this.
I’ll blame the management for this.
Actually barca are playing shite today. Just like us, all possession but very little to show.
Maybe we could turn Sanchez into a striker and sign someone like Reus or Draxler as a winger.
Out of Sanchez, Welbeck and Giroud, Sanchez is the only one who could score 30 goals.
The only alternative is sign a top striker
We need to improve our defense BUT we are not scoring enough
We should solve our internal problem before signing any player cos I don’t think will do any change.
To be honest Sanchez Can play at CF, he can play on both wings and I think he can play in AMF. Rather have him a bit deeper in AMF, because he is what you call a ball winner, a presser when not in possession, great stamina, great skill fending of two three players at a time against Sunderland, and of course good finishing.
I’d rather at this point play him on the wing or AMF becuase we have absolutely no control in midfield (including two wingers not just middle three) without him, he is only one of a couple players who also defend when playing on the wing, the other being Joel Campbell. Sanchez could be a great role model for Joel Campbell absoloutly no doubt about that.
I would spend big money bring Vidal or Pogba in january £40m or £45m for one of these to bring power and control in midfield, too bad Wenger can’t think of this.
I want to see the more mobile DMF/CMF Coquelin play instead of Flamini for once. He is one of the stongest players we have that is fit that can play in the middle three at the moment only behind Diaby. So lets see if he can power us defensivle and offensively.
Does arsenal involved in any match this coming mid week?
At this rate some of you will develop alcers. Your obsession with wenger has got to a point of madness. It is for this reason that you always look for faults in everything connected to arsenal. What you fail to realize is that it is a handful of you sorry individuals who come out to voice thoughtless concerns at an antwenger site. It is not wonder the likes of tony atwood call ypu anti arsenal arsenal fans ( AAA) in shory.
Dont worry about our ulcers..worry about your brain tumor. It is in the advances stage.
I think there are serious issues behind the curtains. 1. Team does not look united and some players definetely feel the favoratism in the camp. Players are getting starts just on the basis of personal choice rather than actual performance.
2. We are not training hard enough and thata for sure. There is a definite lack of match sharpness in the players . Mert even said this and mind you players are generally very subdued when being honest which means the issue is even worst.
3. Players are being played out of position which is affecting their individual performance and affefting their morale and motivation.
4. Wenger seems to have lost the dressing room. The cracks are not visible but it will be one day. Look at number of unhappy players. Take for example Poldi. He openly says he is unhappy and he has every right to be. Other players are not so vocal but dont you think they would ne thinking the same? (rosicky, campbell etc)
A disaster is waiting to happen. That disaster may come in any form: we finish 6th/7th or we get another 8-2 spanking somewhere or something like that. But Wenger will leave us on a low I am sure leaving this club in disarray and unstable.
Maybe now they will sell Messi on the cheap? 😉
then we will be outbid by man city…and buy albanian messi instead
Ha ha ha.
We need the next Sergio Ramos and next Xabi Alonso though.
il start lookin….
Since Wilshere went off in mid week we have scored 4 and conceded none.
I am not Wilshere fan either. But to atrribute today’s 2 goals to his absense is going too far and harsh. Today we were piss poor even in his absense and Wenger must be going down on lady luck every night.
still playing cr*p tho.
souljah boy cr*p
Not a bad Saturday
2. Liverfools draw at home and Ballotelli howler
3. Man Shitty lose
Now a Spurs loss and draw between Chelski and Man Ure would make it excellent weekend.
Happy tonight as we got three points with another below par performance.next week with burnley at home we should get a few goals and another three points.coyg
I know it’s only October but player of the season Alexis ?
Passion,commitment,goals and great attitude.
Age is really getting on arteta this season,he is poor,slower and always picks injuries.why wenger didnt buy a dm?he is so f*cking too loyal to his players,even if they suck and our mananger has lost it
Age is really getting on arteta this season,he is poor,slower and always picks injuries.why wenger didnt buy a dm?he is so f*cking too loyal to his players,even if they suck and wenger has lost it
I was going to write that before todays game.
@HA559 before the season start everyone knew that arteta shouldnt be a starter this season.what is worse wenger choose a worse captain in our club history
Sorry I was going to reply to @Mrlean regarding Sanchez being Player of the season in right now. Nothing to do with Arteta. But I don’t think Arteta is showing leadership quality at the moment.
The bitter truth is the we are STUCK ON REPEAT every season with Wenger as our coach and its f#cking obvious that we are heading towards disaster…Wenger is gonna leave us with nothing to hold onto by the time his contract runs out.He’s by far the most disillusioned coach on the planet for now.
I am happy for d 3 points, livpool draw, city lost. We played well against chelsea but we lost. Win is win! Sunderland played to avoid anoda 8 0, that is why d game was difficult, Anyway, let our players raise ther game, let’s reduce our passes, is too much, especially in d opponent box, we should learn to shoot, I miss Theo n Giroud (hard work), kudos to sanches, carzola! Wots d problem? Gibbs! Injury again?
Mesut ozils not injured hes on x factor, (jack Walton). My wife makes me watch it 🙂 mel b is easy on the eye though.
From the look on the faces of Rosicky and Walcott sitting on the bench I`d say their faith and confidence is not as high as Wenger would have us believe. Each match ends with a sigh of relief rather than jubilation.
Yes, we need money spent on defense but no matter how many players we sign they will soon lose confidence under the present management.
How long before Sanchez becomes just another `also ran`?