Rather Have Vieira? By Dan Smith
Going off what I have read and heard, it does seem if our board are insistent on an ex-player then Viera would be preferred over Arteta.
Despite the Man City assistant’s arrival expected to be announced by Thursday, some gooners are holding on to the outside hope that there will be a change of heart like there was last time, with Edu believed to be arguing Viera’s case, while senior players have questioned the choice of Arteta.
I have made my opinion clear; this is the Kroenke’s finding a cheap replacement for Emery.
Yet let’s try and pretend they actually care what happens on the pitch, and this is a footballing decision. Are they expecting their ex-skipper to return to the Emirates with lots of secrets of how Pep Guardiola does things?
Clearly, he wouldn’t have the reputation he does as a coach if he were only handing out bibs and cones at the Etihad, it’s believed his man management is very strong. Yet the fact is he can’t make us London’s version of Man City because we don’t have the squad the champions have assembled.
While you can still teach talent new techniques to play the football Pep has taught, you need a certain level of individual. Not just technique but attitude, desire and personality.
So, unless the American s are going to get serious in the transfer market, which they haven’t in a decade, it’s irrelevant what Arteta learnt In Manchester.
Working with Pep, you need a certain attention to detail. It’s believed he can copy and paste the expectations of standards in North London. That he won’t tolerate certain attitudes having spent the last two years with professionals such as Aguero, David Silva, Kompany, etc.
Yet where were his leadership skills when he was our … leader? He played in humiliations at Anfield , the Bridge, City, etc. It wasn’t in his DNA to shout and communicate with others then, so why would he have changed?
Vieira on the other hand you could imagine kicking the door down, telling his players what the badge means, our values, our ethos.
That’s because the World Cup winner truly is a legend. He has stories of inspiring others to titles, standing up to intimidation and never giving up.
Don’t get me wrong it’s no disgrace to say Arteta wasn’t a legend. Not everyone can be.
He wasn’t bad, was respected by most and lifted two FA cups. In general, he seems a very polite and intellectual thinker. Yet if it’s playing for us which has made him jump the queue then there are other options and probably better options.
Fans respect Arteta – they love Vieira.
It wouldn’t take long for fans to turn on Arteta whereas they would listen to every word Patrick said. It’s also worth bearing in mind; as much as Arteta is part of the City ‘family’ they equally had hopes of developing Vieira into their next manager when he was in charge of their USA franchise.
Now at Nice, that gives the Frenchmen two years’ experience over Arteta, where if nothing else he has gone through the highs and lows of everything that comes with being in sole charge. Who would you have out of these two gooners?
Be kind in the comments…
Dan Smith
Its up to the Board, but it is quite confusing. There were reports that Arteta was a done deal and now there are talks of Vieira being in the mix. Why this confusion? Arteta is an intellectual and mastered certain tactics from Pepp. Vieira is his own man and considering the current situation, could suit Arsenal more because he can kick the door down and slam the lazy overpaid players and tell them to off. This sort of language and treatment is what the lazy bums deserve and Vieira can tell them a thing or two about wearing the Arsenal shirt. He is a leader by his characteristics and right and what we need now is someone who can tell the Arsenal players on their faces what they actually are. Anyway, I would wholeheartedly support either Arteta or Vieira whomsoever the Board selects. What both have in common, is that they love Arsenal intensely and are passionate about their job and that is the need of the hour.
It is reported from many sources that Arteta are a excellent man manager and has the ability to bring out the best in players especially young players and on top of this he is also a great tactician and reader of the game. If all the above is true I say give him a go. We have a wealth of young talent currently and I believe the club is looking at someone long term that can develop our youth players
Only time will tell whether Arteta will be a success. It is certainly going to take a long time to restructure the core values amongst the playing Squad.
I am sick to death of watching my team go through the motions mailing in poor performances and pick up their wages. We have fallen so far from the peak Wenger years that we must look to appoint a top manager of tomorrow. No top manager today would consider Arsenal as a viable option based on the personnel and the lack of cohesion from top to bottom.
I can handle results not improving immediately as I’m well aware it’s a tough ask to implement tactical changes in match situations and not expect some cock ups whilst fresh ideas bed in.
My advice is give the new manager time and support providing the flow/style of play looks to be developing as the weeks roll by.
Confused board… The owner and the board Re the problem of arsenal… Since kroeke came, arsenal have regressed…..
Arteta, Ljungberg, Mertesacker and Vieira have to work together to save Arsenal from relegation, if they really care and if Arsenal could find a solution to employ all of them at once
Each ex-Gunner has his own strengths and weaknesses, hence it would be good to gather all of them into one super coach team. If a group of legendary ex-Gunners come, no senior players would dare to create problems
Unfortunately each ex-Gunner has his own ego and ambition. I don’t think Arteta and Ljungberg would want to be the second fiddle to Vieira
Whatever you decide or think here doesn’t change anything. The board has decided who they prefer and what is Arteta. Criticism here and there won’t help the new coach. We have to support him
Well said @fabian.
Nothing to add. Been a legend is not enough to win games. It also takes experience and intellectual prowess.
Arteta and Cazola are about the most informed and technical midfielder Arsenal ever had in the last 5years.
Let us support him.
Vieira might have more experience but his work with New York City FC or Nice is nothing spectacular.. Less than a 40% win percentage..
I usually respect your views Dan but on this occasion I feel you are being unfair to suggest Arsenal are getting Arteta on the cheap, as apparently he will enjoy the same salary as Emery .Furthermore, given the legendary status of Vieira with Arsenal why did Wenger and those close and around him choose not to pursue him as the natural successor to Arsene.Until you get to know someone you cannot make a judgement on his ability in Management.Most great players have been abject failures in Management whilst some of the most successful Managers were average players of didn’t play at all.The Board of the Club will have carried out due diligence on a number of candidates before making the decision to go for Arteta.Let’s all get behind the new man and give him a fair crack of the whip.
yeah but they got Emery on the cheap also lol
Wenger was on 9 million , so if they give manager 5, that’s another 4 million the Koronke’s have saved while also slashing the wage bill
Dan on your Kroenkes being a Scrooge point and a huge hindrance there will not be a Gooner anywhere who disgrees. But you are letting your love for Viera as a player, which I guess we all share, cloud your judgement of him as a manager. He has done nothing of grreat note at Nice intwo years and Atrteta has closely worked for longer than that with the best in the business, Pep, who clearly wishes him to stay by his side, unsurprisingly too and has spoken in glowing terms of his contant inspiration and tactical nous. As have many others “in the know” football folk.
Grandad had it right when he pointed out that very few great players have become great managers. Teaching and doing are different skills. It is VITAL to have played football at some reasonable level(ie not park level) and to have been around pro footballers but I would point out that WENGER, FERGIE, MOURINHO AMD MYRIAD OTHER ONCE, OR CURRENT, GREAT MANAGERS WERE ONLY MODEST PLAYERS, OR EVEN VERY MEDIOCRE ONES.
NB: I do know that Fergie played for Scotland, as did George Graham, but they were mere journeymen, at THAT level.
Well said Grandad!
I don’t know why it is difficult for some people to distinguish between a good player and a good coach. Many of the good coaches did not have distinguished playing careers. Let us examine the playing careers of Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho etc and you will see my point. Arteta may not have been as good a player as Vieira but he might have more tactical awareness and analysis as a coach and might also be more inspirational. Obviously if you compared the playing careers of Ljunberg and Arteta, Ljunberg is far ahead but coaching is another thing altogether. It has always been argued that the best students in class do not make the best teachers. So nobody should judge coaches best on their playing careers.
I want neither, but would pick Arteta over Vieira. With no management experience, Arteta remains a mystery, whilst we have had a good look at Vieira at two clubs, and he hasn’t impressed at all.
I do not agree. The fact that he got more yellow cards in a season at Arsenal than all other PL players put together does not equate to coaching ability. The hair dryer treatment on its own is also not good enough. Have you, Dan, even ever read what Pep says about Mikel? Do you believe him or not. I, for one, choose to believe it when he says that Mikel is ready. What glowing reports have we received about Vieira’s coaching abilities?
You don’t have to have been part of the Invincibles to make it at Arsenal. We have an example of that already.
Well yeah Pep hardly going to say my assistant manger is rubbish ?
Did you hear what he used to say about Fabian Delph ? Don’t mean I rate him eihter
DAN, THAT RATHER SILLY AND CLEARLY BIASED COMMENT IS UNWORTHY OF YOUR INTELLECT. Do you imagine for one moment that a manager of Peps distinction would have Arteta so intimately involved in all team matters , UNLESS he rated him as highly as he clearly DOES! Come on Dan; there is clear truth and there is obvious bias and yours is the latter, as all can see.
Sir Alex Ferguso had Steve Mclaren involved in all team matters
Players have said as a coach , the guy is amazing , loads of ideas
Should we get Mclaren then ?
I have no bias, I just want the best for Arsenal and I don’t believe after three weeks the Koronkes sit there and feel this is the man who will take us to the next level
What has McLaren got to do with Arteta? Both were coaches and that is all they share. Gus Caesar and Thierry Henry had more in common as BOTH played for U. BUT they were chalk and cheese too, as are Arteta and McLaren who you, ludicrously, compared for mysterious reasons entirely of your own and for no possible sensible reason. If you wish to make a valid comparison, choose one that makes at least a morsel of sense!
very simple
you say would Pep have Arteta involved so much if he didn’t rate him highly
That’s your argument for Arteta must be a good choice
So I give you an obvious comparison
Sir Alex like Pep a great manager had Mclaren involved and rated him highly
Didn’t make him a great manager
The Daily Mirror reports that Arteta and Arsenal have come to an agreement for a 3 1/2 year contract and the announcement will be made official after the Man City game against Oxford in the League Cup. Arteta is allowed to bring some backroom staff from City. Josh Cronkey has already flown back to the United States bringing an end to the recruitment process. Can anyone throw some light on this report? Anyway I am all support for Arteta. #support Arteta!
I don’t think arteta is being considered just because he played for us . He is a smart young guy that played under a great attacking manager and has been coaching under a great manager . Where as I think Vieira would be given the job solely for the reason he played for us . I prefer to give arteta a chance
He is considered because he is cheap, arsenal likes cheap goods
Viera is an ACTUAL manager, Arteta never was and any professional skill he’s developed over the years happened in a club whose idea to solve having a back 5 that couldn’t play from the back efficiently is to spend hundreds of millions on 5+ players and replace them altogether.
This will never happen at Arsenal and Arteta never developed the skills to shape up a poor defence with players that won’t be replaced.
I liked the player and IF Arteta left Man City today to spend SEVERAL seasons managing other smaller clubs, then maybe he could turn out to be a proper manager down the line.
Today? It’s completely suicidal for the club and cements our future as a Europa League level team.
I agree with you 100%. Seems there is an inverted logic being applied when it comes to Arteta. People with actual managerial experience are being overlooked for someone with no experience of managing a club apart from being an assistant. He may end up worse off than Unai.
And Sokratis, Luiz and Mustafi are “ACTUAL players” as Viera is an “ACTUAL manager” but so what? If you are rubbish you are rubbish. Merely being already a manager means nothing, IF you are not good enough. Emery was an “ACTUAL manager ” too. Didn’t help him much I ‘d say. TALENT IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN MERE JOB TITLES! Viera has done nothing of note in two years with Nice!
Enough of all this junk articles of who the fans love as manager. If this club is run by fans opinion this club will be in bigger mess.
can’t believe with a straight face you wrote this
if this club is run by fans opinions?
Arsenal Fan TV and it’s like hounded out the greatest manager in our history then 2 years later sit there and say , ‘ oh we have got worse’
This time last year many gooners applauded the decision not to offer Rambo a contract. Now we have one of the worse midfield we ever had
We have had Mustafi booed by his own fans , Xakha booed and abused on line
A player has missed games because of arguing with fans
it’s fans opinions why we are in this mess.
This is a rubbish generalisation if ever I saw one, Dan, and, as someone already mentioned here, is not worthy of you. The fans had nothing to do with Rambo’s contract, they didn’t buy Luiz, they didn’t sell RvP, etc. The greatest manager ever Wenger might have been for the first 10 -12 years of his tenure, but instead of modernising and improving tactically and strategically, we remained static and other clubs caught up. It’s a different game today than it was 10 years ago, and the fans had nothing to do with it. Poor decision making re player purchases, coach appointments, training methods and on-field tactics have EVERYTHING to do with our current situation.
Vieira is a hands down the better choice. He actually has management experience. He is a legend in the game. Being the leader now is about being an inspiration to everyone on the playing staff. Its not about tactics or formation or how to play… everyone in the game knows how to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EmITV5O_zA
The only difference is can you get the max (100%) from your players week in, week out. Can you buy the best players at the right price point to execute the plan. Look how well the Red Bull franchises are executing. So, it is not about ‘coaching’, its about leadership, vision and inspiration.
You telling me Arteta has any of that? No f&&&ing way.
The problem with Arsenal is we brought in Sven Mislintat to exactly find the high performance players who could play ‘modern’ fast, pressing football. Then we sacked him when the tiki-taka shite brigade came back in.
Wenger f**ked it in 2005/06 when he broke from his own philosophy: Pires, VIEIRA, LJUNGBERG, SILVA, HENRY, LAUREN, COLE, TOURE, CAMPBELL … notice a pattern? Fast, tough, technically gifter, POWERFUL and can destroy any team when on their game.
Then the twat switched to tiki-taka crap … and ever since we’ve been like a szhizophrenic trying to ‘find our identity’. We need to go back to the model of 2002-2005. And to really piss it all off, Klopp and Red Bull have taken Wenger’s model of basing the game on Power, Pace, technical fluidity and fast pressing, passing and taken it to the next ‘natural evolution’.
Sure, maybe Guardiola can ‘perfect’ a new version of tiki-taka-shit but to do that he needs an INiesta, Xavi, David Silva, Messi, Bosquets, etc… MUCH harder to find and nurture that type of player IMO. In the battle between tiki-taka-shite and power-pressing-technique, my money is on the latter PURELY because its relatively easier to build/find that kind of team. Hence, this year Liverpool are blowing away City.
Bring in VIEIRA… the embodiment of what we want to be… as a captain, as a player and hopefully as a coach.
I personally think Arteta is more of a thinker and would be a good manager in the long run. But as the article point out when the going gets tough will he carry enough respect from the players if they need to be shouted at.
Vierra on the other hand can carry that weight over all the players as somebody that has the t-shirt and worn it. He has achieved great things with arsenal and France. So players would respect that and listen.
I think our team needs more of a “ball buster” and less of a “positive reinforcement” kind of a guy at the minute.
If only we could take both. Arteta for his man management and coaching and viera for prowling the touchline shouting and making sure the players did what they should be doing. A bit like mum and dad situation. Lol
Neither Viera or Arteta is fit for this job. Pochettino is the best we can get at the moment. Convince him at least
Arteta has been a manager for 90 minutes in his life.
Viera has now a few seasons under his belt.
The discussion should be closed by that stage and it’s baffling and insulting that the Board could even CONSIDER Arteta for the job!
Way to jeopardize the future of the club to save a bit of money on a patsy who won’t rock the boat and challenge the Board on anything and will be blamed for any potential failure due to his complete lack of experience, just like Thierry Henry at Monaco last year.
That’s even more criminal when one of the most successful managers around was available and interested. Forget about CL football for the yearsbto come, Everton is now in a much better position to finish above us in the League anyway.
Frankly, I don’t know what the arsenal board see in Arteta, I even wonder if his allegiance is not more towards Everton than arsenal, cuz the man spent the best part of years playing for Everton.
Arsenal board are just not serious, it is now clear why we are where we are, mid-table.
On this site I feel differing opinions are healthy and interesting providing of course contributors do not resort to personal defamation and bad language .Sometimes we just have to agree to differ.However there is one aspect where unanimity exists for sure,in that whoever takes over as Manager of this great Club, faces a huge challenge which will need time, money and a great deal of hard graft to repair the damage caused by the shockingly poor acquisitions made during the past 5/6 years.Those responsible for horrendous decision making, including Gazidis and Wenger have a lot to answer for.
Based on what evidence, apart from you own, unsupported by ANY evidence whatever, opinion? Arteta, by contast, has had two and a half season working closely with and alongside and much praised by Pep, the worlds best or second best manager(Klopp being my own choice)!
This reply was to Reggie , not Grandad.
If we are going down the ex player route, Adams, Bergkamp, Wright, Vieira, Petit, Henry, Brady, Fabregas, Dixon would be a better choice than Arteta but i wouldn’t want any above experience at this crossroads in Arsenals future.
With hindsight some of those decisions can be seen to have not been the best. At the time, as with all decisions, they were taken with what I would assume as having the best information available.
In my experience people who do not make decisions are inevitably fence sitters and trying to take advantage of people who do and sometimes get it wrong. I would hope 5 or 6 years down the line any competent management would have been able to put matters right. It must now be obvious that our management is incompetent.
U would be right if only the ownership of the club never changed but this is the Stan family that doesn’t understand the feeling of the fans
Who ever picked Arsene Wenger to come to Arsenal should choose the next manger…
Well i believe “that” man is also heavily responsible for Kronk being our owner, so make your own mind up about that one.