There have been a few articles and comments on Just Arsenal lately questioning Mikel Arteta; who could replace him if necessary and the thought that the last two seasons were the best times we could or should have won the PL, as our opponents are getting stronger all the time.
I’m hoping to cover all three scenarios in one article, so here goes :
1. The question of Mikel being our best choice.
There seems to be little point in asking this question, at least until the end of this season.
Mr Kroenke has made it abundantly clear that a they are fully behind Arteta and, the nigh on, £800 million he’s invested proves that point – meanwhile the manager himself has said he sees no reason to be tempted by any other club, so let’s put that one to bed.
3. I’m now going to tackle point three next – the last two seasons being our best opportunities to become PL champions once again… I don’t believe that for one second and here’s why:
Liverpool / Arne Slot
Chelsea / Enzo Maresca
Manure / Rubin Amurin
Brighton / Fabian Hurzeler
Spuds / Ange Postecoglon
Mikel Arteta has now been at the club for five years, developed his own squad, his own style of play and is now in phase five of his plan.
All of the others mentioned above are, either in their first full season or second season, and we all know how long it took Mikel to get to where we are today…five seasons!!!!!
Some will say Mikel had more work to do, but, as has been pointed out, he won a trophy in his first season and I wonder if Enzo, Rubin, Arne and Fabian will do the same – Ange, of course hasn’t!!
So, surely, those five years will be of immense importance as we battle these newcomers to the PL?
2. Finally, who could have replaced Mikel if needed?
Enzo, Ruben, Arne and Fabian perhaps?
It seems that these men have passed us by and, in my opinion, we don’t need to replace Mikel anyway!!
Let’s wait until the end of the season and I’m hoping all this guesswork will go away, but rest assured there are top class managers and coaches out there who could and would jump at the chance of being at The Arsenal… especially if Mikel Arteta fails to win something this season and Mr Kronkie decides to act.
As a final observation, it seems City115 and Pep are going through a bad patch, so there might just be a further vacancy one way or another!
Your thoughts fellow Gooners?
Ken1945
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Arteta will be fully responsible for our achievement or failure at the end of the season, so we don’t need to harass him
The questions will come if he fails to win a major trophy and I believe Kroenke will be ready to replace him if it happens
I just want Arteta to stop making Havertz deputizing Odegaard because of Havertz’s limited technical skills for the role and stop starting Trossard because he’s single-handedly cost us seven points, to prevent us from getting the fourth red card in EPL
Each season now, particularly after the previous two, that Arsenal doesn’t win the title clearly puts an increasing amount of pressure on Arteta.
His case isn’t helped, as I’ve said in other posts, by the fact that there’s scant little to show in the trophy cabinet since he arrived in 2019. An additional domestic cup/Europa League win in the interim would have helped, I think. There are lots of factors at work of course but, unfortunately, Arteta has been the coach, so he’s where “the buck stops” – fairly or not.
Obviously, all this will be academic should Arsenal win the title this season, but should they fail (and winning the CL would also be great, but realistically there’s far less chance) then Arteta’s position will be a lot weaker, especially since his close friend/supporter, Edu, has now left the club.
It doesn’t mean Arteta will be sacked in the summer if Arsenal fails, but the possibility is there in my opinion and, unfortunately for him, the likely availability of other well qualified (potential) candidates may prove to be a temptation hard for the owners to resist.
I say If Arnie wins the league and Enzo finishes above us, then Mikel should be sacked. 5 years and counting, should we wait another 17 years then hire his replacement? Ange drubbed City 4-0, while we limped home 1-1.Arsenal fans needs better.
To be fair, Spurs wouldn’t have gotten that result if they had played City at the time that we did.
Go on and on with your excuses for him. That should be a major trophy enough for you guys
Imo the money is insignificant
800m and we have a squad capable of challenging
Previously to the spend We had a squad of players we needed out the door, picking up vast salaries and not committing to the club
I, like you beleive he needs to win something major this season to justify
I still feel city are the team to beat this season and not pool, even though they are 9 in front of us.
They were this far ahead of us this time last season and died at the end.
Don’t get me wrong pool are a good side and good sides win even when playing badly but there is something not right about them and will get found out
It still a long way to go and a heck of a lot of points to win and drop
Imo we will be there fighting it out come last 5 games of the season
Onwards and upwards
If I hear the word phase again in a sentence along with Arteta’s name.
Stop with this phase garbage.
All the talk of this phase and that phase.
I’ll tell you what phase I’m at shall I, it’s called the Arteta out phase if he doesn’t produce the Premier League title this season.
I hear you. The phases is the biggest and the worst excuse of them all. It is infinity. One more phase will be added every season we don’t win a trophy.
They will end only when we win the league or if Arteta is sacked.
Lmao that was bait Ken and the usual suspects will show up, some already have.
No Ackshay, I suddenly realised that, apart from us and city115, the other supposed top six all had new managers.
The question has been asked numerous times “if we sack MA who else is out there?” and I had four names straight away.
So now we know that Mr Kronkie won’t sack MA – there are managers out there who the other top clubs hired – the only questions remaining are will MA win a trophy this season and if he doesn’t will there be a phase 6 or not?!
Personally i’m on the fence regarding what happens to Arteta if we end up trophyless once again. Major respect to the tremendous work he did completely turning around a club that was in a ridiculously bad shape from board to the fans.
But football is result-based and until he wins that elusive 1st major trophy, there will be question whether if he hasn’t already taken the club as far as he could. Take Klopp as example pretty similar in as much as they came and revived a fallen big club but would he have been celebrated if he didn’t win the league and CL.
I agree.
This kind of article was bound to bring out certain people who couldn’t wait to get their negativity out. And I’m sure the author was well aware of this.
The author glazes over the necessity to rebuild the squad and pretends that Arteta was in the same place as the likes of Slot who was taking over a title challenging team.
The sheer brilliance and relentlessness of the MC teams of the last few years is not even mentioned as if these were mere footnotes that any manager could have come into Arsenal and overcome.
I think we need the debate. You can be sure that the owners will be having it, whatever they may say in public.
Of course, you can argue that Arteta has had a lot to do from 2019 but professional football at the very top level, the level that Arsenal aspires to be at, is ultimately about results whether we like it or not. Trophies are good for business – ask any regular winners of them in the EPL or Europe.
I think, in effect, Arteta has really got to win the title now – nothing else will do now. If he does, that’s great. If he doesn’t then we’ll have to see what happens. That’s not negative thinking, that’s reality.
Of course there needs to be a debate. However, much of what I see written is a sense of entitlement rather than much of reasoned analysis.
👍
There is nothing negative about wanting your club to win the the ultimate price in epl after more than fifteen years of waiting and spending ridiculously in the process.
We have spent a lot to have won something in the process. Chelsea stated winning when they did likewise Mancity. Liverpool also got to cl finals, won one and epl and domestic cups when they spend. Why it is wrong to question our coach to do the same.
All Arteta achievements been glorified now were a common thing under Wenger at little or no cost yet I wanted more you and others wanted more.
Although, it is true that Wenger unearthed some gems it is also true that Arsenal spent a lot of money at certain times when he was manager.
Now this is where you are required to produce some examples or I will class your post as a lie. “Some gems” and “spent a lot of money”
You are painting it that the gems were little and spending was more.
When did Wenger spend a lot of money?
I can give you some examples from Wenger’s tenure:
Alexis Sánchez – £32m in July 2014. Mesut Özil – £42,5m in 2013. Granit Xhaka – £34m in 2016. Shkodran Mustafi – £35m in 2016. Alexandre Lacazette – £47m in 2017. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang – £56m in January 2018.
The amounts must be adjusted for inflation to reflects the value of today. Our spending started to increase around 2013 and Wenger spent relatively much in the last five years of his tenure.
Good points. One of the sneaky things that some people do is to regularly quote figures without adjustments for inflation or considering other concurrent issues.
“wanting your club to win the the ultimate price (sic)”
That goes without saying, but this isn’t about that though, is it?
Those negative people are demanding trophies or they want the manager sacked. that’s a very different thing.
Ken’s article lists a bunch of untried managers whose only claim to fame was that they did well in lesser leagues. As such, they are a risk. We all know how those clubs’ previous attempts at new managers went – Potter, Poch, endless list of ManU managers… just because they are doing ok now doesn;t meant they will do well over time. most of the failed amangers had a decent start (ETH for example was hailed as a tactical genius when they beat Arsenal 3-1 soon after he took over).
The owners are business men. They realise that winning trophies is for the fans, consistently being in the mix is what makes you a “big club” and therefore a valuable asset, a worthwhile return on investment.
The PL is the most competitive league in the world, nobody is guaranteed to win it, no matter how much they spend (ask Boehly) – good business people know that and make their judgements accordingly.
Sure, they could have bought PSG and win Ligue 1 every year. Big deal. What has PSG won in Eurpope for all their spending and lashing out on big names? Diddly squat.
The sense of entitlement of some fans amazes me. Be grateful for what you have – a good side, competing to win major trophies. Most real fans of any club would sell their soul for that
David, if you could only take a step back and not try to see negativity whenever anyone mentions Mikel, unless it’s 100% adulation, you might get off your high horse.
I names five NEW managers, none being more than a season and a few games in the PL, so why would I mention Pep Guardiola, who’s been at city115 longer than MA has been at our club?
They were perfect examples of top class managers / head coaches who were available when it was being said there wasn’t anyone out there IF Mikel was to leave the club.
The article was nothing to do with city115, except to mention them as a passing footnote regarding their current situation.
You say that Slot has taken over a title challenging team… a team that has finished behind city115 and The Arsenal two years running – Mikel took over a team that saw him win his only trophy and had European football for two decades!!
But back to my main points:
MA is here for the long haul.
There are managers out there who have taken over the reins of four of the current top six recently.
With all these new guys needing time to settle in, we have as good a chance of winning the PL as we did the last two seasons.
So get off that high horse of yours regarding MA, because I knew you would come here and do exactly what your accusing others of doing – some of us are realists who identify both the good, the bad and the opportunities in Mikel Arteta.
Ken, he can’t. He is so blinkered.
This from someone who says that Liverpool are an “average” team. A team that has a number of all time great PL players. A team that has CL winners, PL winners and one that has recently challenged for the PL according to you is merely “average”.
Analysis should be fair and balanced not a cynical attempt to undermine.
And one that missed on top 4 qualification just a season before last.
And one where their best players have their best seasons behind them. How many Liverpool players would we/David swap? Start at the back David, work your way through and tell me how many if their players would you swap (one for one) with theirs. Truthfully, you wouldn’t swap hardly any. Bang Average!!!!!
I see you haven’t got an answer yet Reggie – am I surprised?
Neither did I when I asked David his definition of a legend at our club!!
It is simply not credible to say that Liverpool are a bang average team. This is not something that requires a long drawn out debate.
Sorry Ken, I usually see things the same way as you but not this time.
The people you listed are not “top managers” any more than ETH was when he took over at ManU. Winning a few domestic things in minor European countries doesn’t make someone a “top manager” – they show talent, potential etc, but they have yet to show how it translates at the top level over a worthwhile period of time.
Arsenal has been very good at identifying talent that will do well in the PL etc (Wenger, Emery, MA), other clubs have been less successful in that way in recent years.
Neutral, good to know we can have a difference of opinion, but debate in a sensible way my friend 👍
As you say, the four managers I mentioned who have taken over at pool, manure, chelsea and brighton are untried in the PL, but wasn’t MA when TH Arsenal took the plunge with him?
My point that Mikel is now five seasons into his PL reign must, surely as you point out, have an advantage over the others?
I deliberately said “top clubs” but I don’t think I said “top managers”… did I say that?
It will be really interesting to see how those four managers have performed in comparison to MA if they survive five seasons at the clubs they are now in, don’t you think?
You once agian pointed the negatives of Liverpool and posisitive of Arsenal to carry along your agenda, what ever it might be. “You say that Slot has taken over a title challenging team… a team that has finished behind city115 and The Arsenal two years running – Mikel took over a team that saw him win his only trophy and had European football for two decades!!”.
How about ‘Slot taking over a Liverpool team that qualified 3rd for the CL while also competing for the league tiltle and ended up winning the EFL Cup, and played Europa Cup football – Mikel taking over a team that failed to win any trophy, failed to qualify for CL football, and played Europa Cup football’.
When put fairly the way it is or was, shows the reader you are free of bais, sentiments and hidden agenda.
So you say I have an agenda, but you don’t know what it is.
It’s quite simple really – I want Mikel Arteta to become the most successful manager in the club’s history.
If he can’t do that, we move on and try to identify who could take the club forward.
Do I think he can?
I’m watching great football at the moment and I see no reason why he shouldn’t.
Now tell me if I have a hidden agenda, bias, as the only sentimental attachment I have is to my club, The Arsenal.
David, I fully agree with you. MA got a team in disarray , Slot got a ready team and some guys here want to compare these 2.
I bet half of these guys who are calling for Arteta out , never managed even a lemonade stand in their life.
Not to mention that between top 6 teams, Arsenal is the most screwed team by all these damn referees.
JPS,
Yet another fan blaming the referee. Change the record.
Yet another fan saying the only trophy MA has won, was by a club in dissaray – so why none since then?
By the way, where in the article am I calling for MA to go?
Funnily enough, in my youth I managed a couple of bars, does that count as a lemonade stand, alongside running and managing a couple of Saturday / Sunday league teams?
Beautiful article Ken.
Very beautiful if truth be told.
Make more excuses for Arteta while others go on and win the trophies.
You can’t write this stuff
“His own style of play “
Not true ,he’s copied is best mates style ,even wearing the same cashmere jumpers .
Phases 🤢🤢
Dan Kit,
I have at times had the same thoughts about Arteta and Guardiola.
Guardiola, inverted fullbacks.
Arteta inverted fullbacks.
Guardiola four Centre backs across the back four.
Arteta four Centre backs across the back four.
The one thing that we need Arteta to copy is an out and out striker, something he seems very reluctant to do for some reason.
But remember Dan, you can only be positive on this forum where Arteta is concerned. Wo betide anyone who says something negative concerning Arteta.
I think you’ll find that was the case when MA took over and we finished eighth.
There were many of us who said that he wasn’t being judged in the same way as AW and UE, with goalposts being moved to accommodate his mistakes.
But there can be no doubt that he has moved the club forward since then, both on and off the pitch.
I’ve also said that if MA can keep The Arsenal in the CL next season, for me, as a supporter, I will see that as a successful season – just as I did with Arsene Wenger….albeit with MA having the full financial backing of the Kronkie family.
You forget Derek, that until Pep bought Haaland, they didn’t have an out and out striker.
How many trophies did they win using that non striker system?
How many more goals did they score in the last two seasons versus The Arsenal?
Have Liverpool got an out and out striker?
Because they did not buy CFC flops! We do. City buys players who can step up, every time when needed. That’s the difference between Mikel and Pep. The last “flop” Pool hired from CFC was Salah and the rest is history. Call it any “phase” you wish to please yourself, but cross your heart and tell me if you think we can win the league or in Europe with Sterling, Havertz or MC flops like Gabby or Zinny. Twice we failed to lift the EPL with flops, thinking that we can make it the third time is insanity in my opinion. For Enzo if finishing in top 4 is “phase 1” with the current crop of players at his disposal, it’s scary to think his phase2, phase3, phase4 and phase 5 would look like.
Shiba, how’s that £100 million success Grealish getting on at city115?
TSRS, Liverpool never bought Salah from Chelsea, they bought him from Roma. They did buy Solanke from Chelsea though, a striker who, iirc, only scored one goal for them.
That is not entirely true Ken. They had Aguero. I think they played without a proper striker for only a season or two.
One season HH
Ken1945,
While I agree with what you say regarding City’s success with out an out and out striker.
The fact that Guardiola has now got one, shows that maybe he thought it was time to get an out and out striker, to supplement the goals scored by the rest of his team.
Something that I believe Arsenal should do. Because while the team is scoring goals throughout the team, its not a problem.
But if the team hit’s a lean patch, that out and out striker could make all the difference.
I mean it may not work but lets face it, its not exactly working in this current format either is it.
But Derek, just above this post, you and DK were criticising and saying that Arteta is only copying Pep, now your saying he SHOULD be copying him!!
It seems he loses whichever way he goes! 🤔
Ken1945,
Your right, while I was agreeing with Dan Kit.
What my point really should have said was if Arteta want’s to copy Guardiola, then he should get an out and out striker.
All this inverted rubbish really makes me laugh.
I can’t remember who said it, but they said that football is a simple game, made complicated by people overthinking the game. And I agree with there sentiment to a large extent.
I certainly agree with you on the inverted rubbish.
I would also love to see Saka and Martinelli swap over at the beginning of a match, just to see how our opponents would cope.
Guardiola said that he and Arteta learned from each other.
If it works – and if he knows how it works – then why on Earth would MA choose to do something else?
Accusing MA of “copying” is a weak attempt at a put-down. When arguments are that weak, the people putting them forward are usually wrong.
Agreed Neutral – it just needs MA to win the PL or CL to prove that point.
I now see why your user name is Neutral.
Derek, can you explain why you say “But remember Dan, you can only be positive on this forum where Arteta is concerned. Wo betide anyone who says something negative concerning Arteta.”
That is a ridiculous thing to say – and why are you telling Dan to “woe Betide”? He has been on JA for five years longer than you! Maybe he just knows the rules and is not abusive. And maybe you should read them sometime….
Derek, Pep isn’t the first to play 4CBs in the PL. Blackburn Rovers, with Dalglish as manager, often played with 4CBs, Tony Gale, Henning Berg, Colin Hendry and Ian Pearce.
Did Pep copy Dalglish ?
Herr Drier,
I don’t know, you’ll have to ask Guardiola😉.
Derek, I’m not the one saying Mikel copies another manager 😁
Just the same as you’d have to ask MA if he copied Pep, Derek.
What’s “pep style” if I may ask? And how is it in any way similar to our style(s) under Mikel?
IF this year ends without a trophy, it’s time questions are asked and pressure is applied.
As to the question “which other managers?” it’s not hard to find a manager to come in and not deliver a trophy 4 straight years, Leagues are full of managers without trophies.
I’m not saying sack Arteta, but perhaps take away duties and let him focus solely on the first team. No doubt Arteta can build a title challenging squad; question remains though, can he deliver a title with a title challenging squad.
Your last paragraph Durand, reminds me so much of the situation Arsene Wenger was put in, or choose to put himself in.
The problem with being in that “all powerful position” is that one doesn’t want to give it up. Arsene was forced to do so by Kronkie and Gazidis.
I can’t see Mikel wanting to relinquish anything either and we might just see the same final outcome, unless MA can win the PL and / or the CL.
Durand, what duties should be taken away from the manager ?
Ken1945
You made an interesting point about the other managers out there that could lead Arsenal. Hurzeler is an interesting case and credit should go to Brighton for plucking him from obscurity at such a young age. Time will tell of course, but he looks promising. Would the Arsenal hierarchy have taken a punt on an unknown? An interesting thought.
Slot and Amorim have both won leading league trophies so have more experience than Maresca who won the Championship with Leicester. All look to be poised to do well but being in the top 6 now doesn’t mean they will finish at the top of the pile
I notice that you have taken issue with David’s post, but how is it possible to not mention the stranglehold that Pep and City have had on the domestic league?
My view is that Arteta has done really well to progress the team the way he has. Like Allanball08, I don’t think the investment sum is particularly relevant but that is an old argument that has been fought over many times over the last five years.
I consider myself a realist like you. Had other managers managed to pip Pep to the post apart from Klopp who only had one league win, then I would also be questioning Arteta more thoroughly.
SueP, the reason I have taken issue with David, is because I was highlighting something completely different.
Pep has been with city115 longer than Mikel, while the five managers / coaches I mentioned are “newcomers” to the PL… Hence, available when the question was asked who could replace MA.
I didn’t include Pep for such a blindingly obvious reason, but David, yet again, accuses me and any one who he thinks is having a go at MA, as not having a reasoned analysis!!
It’s a bloody simple analysis – four new managers, who all took over current top four clubs, were available to take over The Arsenal IF required.
How many times has he asked the question (likewise you and many others) who was available if MA left or was sacked?
It suddenly dawned on me that the answer was right in front of us, so I gave what I thought was a sensible answer.
I also thought that these managers needed time to settle in to the rigours of the PL and that would give Mikel a great opportunity to, once again, challenge for the PL title.
I also addressed the question of MA actually leaving and gave my reason why he wouldn’t.
So I have no idea why David comes charging in on his horse, shield at the ready to defend the man he sees as a legend from “criticism” – what criticism is he talking about, can you give me a clue?
I don’t see David’s contributions as being any more defensive of Arteta than mine tbh. It is virtually impossible to overlook Pep and the money invested by City when discussing the lack of trophies for anyone else including Arteta. He has won 15 at City plus 3 community shields.
Whilst your article isn’t about a personal criticism of Arteta it did bring out several Arteta sceptics to voice their negative views rather than tackle the thrust of yours which I hope I did in my response to it
Of course SueP, when one writes an article for discussion, one hopes and expects different points of views and I would suggest that’s what’s happening here.
I do believe you didn’t see MA as a legend and I know you also point out both his good and bad points – David, on the other hand, refuses to say what makes a legend after one cup win and will not recognise any fault in MA, something he himself admits too!!
Anyway, with David at one end of the scale and Derek at the other, lively discussion will always take place!!
This is a cynical misinterpretation of my comments and views.
I am sure you know that it was in an article that Arteta was referred to as a legend. I also gave my own personal view on this which you have now twisted to suit your own narrative.
Of course I know what article I’m talking about when I mentioned legend, as this article doesn’t mention the word once.
You stated that MA is a legend – is that true or false?
Is it a cynical misinterpretation of what you said?
I asked you what criteria you used to determine a legend at the club – but you didn’t reply, is that true or false?
I have no reason or motive to cynically misrepresent your views, just an explanation is all I’m asking for.
You completely missed the fact that I was giving examples of successful managers who have taken charge of four of the supposed top six clubs in the last few months – it had nothing whatsoever to do with Pep, nothing whatsoever, but you come in, all guns blazing, accusing me of not recognising the man who’s been at city115 longer than Mikel has been at The Arsenal!!
Now, if anyone is making a cynical misrepresentation to suit their own narrative, it’s you David… the problem is, in your overwhelming desire to ensure Mikel’s “legendary” status, you seem unable to digest what I was saying in the first place.
That being, in my opinion, Mikel Arteta is going nowhere, at least until the end of the season and if he does leave (by his own choice or otherwise) there are managers out there who will replace him, we’ve missed those I’ve named of course!!
Not surprising, doubling down on falsehood. My comments remain what they are and you can look them up yourself.
As for my views on this article they stand.
Good for you and mine remain the same… however, I do answer all your questions (even if you don’t like the answers) while it’s frustrating that you don’t answer all of mine!!
But let’s draw the line here and hope that, one day, I’ll agree that MA has won enough trophies to prove he’s a legend.
Completely misrepresented my comments and then demanded answers. As some are wont to say, you couldn’t make it up. If anything, I should be frustrated about the false attribution which you have repeated a number of times.
So tell me, exactly, what is false David and how I’ve misrepresented what you’ve said.
If I have done that, you will get a full apology, but I ask you again, why would I want to do that?
It depends what you think are “leading leagues”.
Good point Neutral. I was being generous but they were still winners within them.
But not the point I was making SueP and Neutral.
Leading clubs not leading leagues.
Ken, the only reference I can find in your previous posts on the subject reads:
“You completely missed the fact that I was giving examples of successful managers who have taken charge of four of the supposed top six clubs in the last few months…”
The key words being “successful managers”. Sue may have interpreted your words slightly, but I think the meaning she (and I) ascribed to them was just about right…
Basically, we were questining whether they can be coinsidered to be “successful” managers by winning some league in a European country (since so many leagues have very few teams who can realistically win them).
These guys are unproven in the PL. Making a good start is not enough, and that’s all they’ve done so far.
Just read your point here Neutral, so sorry for the late reply.
They WERE successful managers in their positions, otherwise why would the likes of pool chelsea and manure, let alone a superbly run club like Brighton go after them?
Whether they’ll repeat that success in the PL is unknown as they find their feet – meanwhile MA has already gone through that learning curve (also being an untied manager in the PL of course) and that, as I said, should give him an advantage this season at least.
There are always a number of issues to consider with a change of manager.
For example, if you look back at Conte winning the PL in his first season he was hailed as a genius. Yet there were several contexts to that. You may also remember that several people suggested that we should have gone all out for him. Most, if not all, have gone silent about him since his star dimmed in more recent years.
The article is silent on other factors that can influence outcomes and focuses solely on the length of time a manager has been at a club; which is clearly a very limited perspective.
For an inexperienced manager in one of the strongest leagues in world football what Arteta has done is remarkable. Yet, this is regularly glossed over by the likes of this author and many of the naysayers on this site.
There is a prevailing cynicism in many of the views expressed suggesting than any manager could have done what Arteta has done or even better if they had been backed. As we have seen with a number of other high spending clubs this is not necessarily true.
It’s all very well singing the praises of managers, currently doing well, who have come into teams with varying levels of expectations and challenges. However, that provides very little insight into whether they would have been suitable options for Arsenal during the few years.
As you have pointed out the strengths of the clubs at the top of the league, particularly MC for the past few years, should be considered. This is hugely relevant point, one of which has also affected how Klopp is viewed despite generally considered one of the best managers in the world for the past 10 years at least.
My only question Ken and to anyone. Could another manager have won the league or CL with the finance invested in the team?
That is a very good question Reggie and one that is not straightforward to answer. We are the 3rd highest spenders – behind Chelsea and Utd over last 5 years
What is interesting to note was between 2013/2018 City spent £750m from a position of being able to being able to spend almost unchecked beforehand. In Klopp’s 9 years he spent £850m but this was offset by having players having a more than decent sell on fee. It depends on your point of view regarding the value of the players in the Arsenal team under Arteta at the time. We didn’t exactly have a Coutinho to flog
We remember all the names being bandied about before Arteta was appointed. Ten Hag was frequently mentioned. He won 2 trophies but they were the wrong sort and he didn’t improve Utd. Chelsea have also spent a fortune but have been through rather a lot of managers.
Without going on about Emery too much, other than to repeat he had bags of experience and trophies, his year and a bit (£270m spent) didn’t bear any fruit. Would a big name have been given the time to bring about the necessary change after him? The one thing that benefited Arteta was being on a learning curve during which he was given the benefit of the doubt a lot of the time. And although there is a school of thought that thinks that any fool could have done better than Arteta with the amount spent, I am not so sure.
I agree, a very good question.
As I’ve suggested in the article, it takes ANY manager time to settle in, obtain the players he wants and move on the players he doesn’t think will fit into his plans.
It took MA three years to do this and I believe he had the same scenario as the new Chelsea and Manure managers are facing, both on and off the pitch.
I can’t really answer your question, but we might be able to assess whether others could have done, by watching how those two clubs fare over the same time period.
My personal feeling is that his early mistakes cost him three seasons (8th 8th and 5th) but now, apart from Pep, who has his own problems at the moment, I don’t think so… but he must surely win something this season?!
Ken and Sue. Ancelotti was overlooked and he went to be unsuccessful at Everton. Since he left, he has proved what he can do. He was at one time Arsenals first choice. I wonder what went wrong and why he was overlooked for Arteta. Could he have won us the league or CL?
Reggie
Ancelotti – looking back at the Everton fiasco, basically jumped ship. Maybe, he didn’t want to tarnish his legacy with the prospect of a rebuild and the very real possibility that the job required considerably more than a tweak here and there. I’d say that currently, he probably could win as Arteta has done the rebuild. We have been comfortably in the top4 for 2 years and not languishing in mid table. Not a bad place for a new manager to inherit
Arteta- as I remember- made predictions about where we would finish – which were clearly not going to happen judging by the league positions. What he had in his favour was the backing of the Board – and not just financially. Whatever P word you want to use, he and Edu combined forces to implement it. It wasn’t the speedy return I expected but the reality was that Arsenal had become stale. Boehly threw money at Chelsea buying willy nilly and look what happened. It doesn’t always bring about the desired outcome in double quick time
There isn’t a simple answer. Utd and Arsenal suffered as a result of the long term appointments of Fergie and Wenger. Great while it lasted but left the clubs in a vacuum. With the benefit of hindsight, Abramovitch was probably right to refresh his managers regularly. Once at the top, stay at the top.
Probably his wage demands as well Reggie.
Having just had to pay AW and UE off, plus both of their backroom staff, I would think Mr Kronkie would see Mikel as a more sensible acquisition.
Maybe Ken. Sensible or misguided.
Not my money Reggie, I have enough trouble persuading my wife it’s a good idea to keep my season ticket and travel down from Scotland for every game! 😂
🤣🤣
Please stop puting the first 8, as that is misleading once again. he took over a team in serious decline, bad form and at the bottom half of the table, i think 12th or 14th around December, and brought them back to respectable 8th positiont. The only time i critcised Arteta badly was when we finished 8th the following season. My criticisms of him other than that season has been on the low with more prasise. That is where i still stand, he’s done very well for Arsenal and i believe he can do better. He is also not above fair unbaised and sentimental critcism.
solwills, the two seasons before MA took over, we finished 6th and 5th, so finishing 8th with the same players in the PL is a downward trend.
I have said many many times that Mikel has done a fantastic job uniting the club, the players and the supporters, as THAT situation was at it’s lowest ebb for many years.
He’s also done a terrific job in finishing 2nd two seasons running.
But that has nothing to do with the opportunities for this season, or the amount of new managers coming into the PL at our top rivals.
If you want to erase the first 8th position, erase the fa cup win!!
You can’t have it both ways… as Arsene Wenger found out!!
Ken1945?
Dare I ask why the FACup win should be erased? Wigan won the FACup and got relegated. A cup win can’t be used as a comparison with the league.
I think solwills makes a fair and reasonable point about finishing 8th in his first year and agree that 8th the following year was not good enough.
SueP, if one says that MA was successful in winning the fa cup in his first season, one must also look at what else happened surely?
Our league position was the lowest in over two decades.
AW was judged to have failed,, even though he was winning fa cups and finishing 6th.
I agree it was even worse the next season, as he still finished 8th, got knocked out of the fa cup and we failed to secure European football for the first time in another two decades.
As I have said before, if MA finishes in a top four position, as a supporter of the club, that’s a successful season, as the CL money is worth it.
MA is doing a sterling job now but our history is our history, no matter how one tries to dress it up.
Yes and no tbh
It doesn’t alter the fact that Wigan got relegated and still won the cup. Utd have won domestic cups under TenHag but haven’t exactly set the heather on fire in the league.
The cup win could be classed as fortunate insofar as the Covid crisis was in full swing, the final against Chelsea was played behind closed doors and apart from coming up against City in the SF the other rounds were not routinely difficult ties. I was obviously delighted to have won and thought we were on the right track; the next season was a tough watch. It may well have bought Arteta time when the club finished 8th again
I don’t think it’s particularly relevant to bring Wenger into it. His league positions put his job in doubt – even with his record and there was a lot of fan unpleasantness during that period. Emery didn’t set the heather on fire and it descended into a chaotic situation. By the time Arteta came along, we were on a downward trend- very much mid table. I know you expect Arteta to be treated like AW and to operate within the same criteria but the reality is that Wenger had never been below 6th and it was a new dilemma for the club. They decided to stick and not twist with Arteta when they could have given him his P45. They gave him a chance and it has paid off so far.
AW and UE for comparison purposes SueP.
I’m not sure why Wigan comes into the debate either to be honest.
Going right back to the article though and it was said that the managers I cited were untried in the PL and, as you say, so was Mikel.
Surely that means there ARE opportunities for younger inexperienced PL managers, as the likes of manure, pool, chelsea and Brighton have proven?
So if (we both hope it doesn’t happen of course) Mikel was to leave, for whatever reason, there will be both experienced and up and coming managers available… which was one of the three points I originally made.
I don’t think it’s helpful to compare maangers from different eras.
Wenger had a time in the era prior to big money coming into clubs which was, as Wenger put it, “not based on their historical on-field performance”.
He couldn’t compete when Chelsea had lots of money from external sources pre-FFP days.
MA is now in a position to compete in terms of money, but against squads that were given a head start by doing a lot of it pre-FFP so that they could simply buy one or two players a season to refresh their squad. It gets easier when you’re seen to be a top club and players want to join.
Success these days needs different things in place. The “history” is gone – by definition, it’s in the past – but the current and future landscape works differently thanit did before 2003. Clubs with no history of success get a new owner and suddenly they’re competing for trophies out of nowhere, based on no real club development whatsoever. It’s enough to make people question if football is worth watching any more, now that it’s basically a fantasy league for billionaires.
That’s why I said that, if Mikel keeps us in the top four and CL football, I see that as a successful season Neutral.
Give it a rest Reggie. The amount invested is irrelevant now 😂😂😂.
The excuses are increasing in levels every single day.
HH, I know it means nothing that we have blown the safe door wide open and splashed it all on one or two players. 🤪
It’s hard to be the best, and it’s not easy to win titles if it was we wouldn’t spend all this time and effort watching the sport Some of my best memories are of Wenger winning the FA Cup Hopefully Arteta will make us the best in the league or Europe but if he falls short I hope he takes the Cups more seriously
BOT, I thought you were older than that.
Were you not around for GG’s great night at Liverpool or our two league winning game at the Lane, plus the one and only Invincibles?!??
Fingers crossed MA will bring some of that glory back.
The reason Arsenal lost the last two, that seem to have been lost from an easy position, was because of the officiating.
Some may say ” there are those who always blame it on the referee ” unfortunately, but it is what it is.
Manchester City and Liverpool have already gotten some easy points from the referees while Arsenal has lost some. So will it continue until the end of the season. Even next season and the season after. And even after.
When certain dudes complain about city115, they make it seem as though all of those have nothing to do with on-pitch activities and officiating. City are not alone in this and I expect them never to be handed any considerable punishment for their misdeed – if at all found guilty – they might be paid compensation for false accusations.
I do not expect arsenal to win the league in ten years, no matter the coach brought in and amount spent, with the terrible bias.
Manchester United have been close to total rubbish: have they been a bit decent, they would have been above Arsenal on the table because of their lovers.
Just on the side:
Arteta is the best coach on earth, right now.
You don’t have to agree with me.
What?
Where are the trophies to show??
Ask from the referees.
Don’t bother me.
Thrill,
Although a refereeing decision can and does make a difference in games sometimes, to level the amount of blame you seem to at the officials, is to be honest, embarrassing.
It wasn’t the referee’s fault that Rice and Trossard kicked the ball away was it.
But it’s easier to look for a scapegoat, rather than acknowledge our player’s stupidity for picking up their second booking, knowing that they were already on a yellow card.
Put the blame where it should be, and that’s fairly and squarely at rice and Trossard’s doors.
I reply you and it appears elsewhere . . .
the platform looks inconsistent today.
😁
Neither did the referee kick the ball away for Trossard nor did he do that for Rice. Your claims are correct.
But the referees CHOSE not to punish others while punishing Arsenal players.
Rules and Exceptions.
Raya won the golden glove and they were those who claimed it was because of Megalhaes and Saliba.
Should Arteta bag any trophy, we will get the ” he won it because of Ødegaard and Saka ” vibe.
Arteta will never be given credit, unfortunately.
Anchelotti just about proved at Everton he would have failed at Arsenal.
So your comparing Everton to Arsenal?!
The only player from Everton who MIGHT get into our first eleven is Jordan Pickford and that’s not a 100% certainty either.
not one Arsenal fan would have Pickford over Raya
but i get your point
A very bold statement Arsenal1886!!
@Ken1945:
” . . . the only player . . . is Pickford . . . ”
Which do you mean:
comparison of 2020/2021 with Leno.
or that of 2023/2024 with Raya.
Our current squad of course!!
@Derek: I do have a feeling you mostly watch EPL games with over 40% of your viewing – Arsenal.
I suggest you see other teams; other leagues; other sports . . . correlate.
Anyone who watches Barcelona, for instance, play ten consecutive or random games in La Liga and fail(s) to see the referee(s) as one of their star player(s) is basically, blind. One may say they are a good team, with good players and have been forever good. Yes. But. Underlying factors make them make them almost always, unplayable.
I have observed your preferred terminology on discrepant officiating to be “mere inconsistencies” that amount to nothing on the long run. I respect your convenient choice of words.
For what reasons were Everton docked points last season? Points reduced, given, reduced again . . . Manchester United with about 10x the offense . . . I think, your words might be inconsistent inconsistencies. Congratulations.
I bet, you think, officiating does not matter. And that if it does, that of the EPL is of the highest fairness.
Your thoughts on football, as a game, might tend towards board games: like chess, checkers and some others where simple superior positioning and strategy wins. It is not. It may tend towards games like backgammon, snakes and ladders where dice bring some randomness to play – intended to benefit no one in particular. Wow.
A player goes for and wins the ball, cleanly, is carded for malicious intent. Another player slides, catches an opponents knee, does not touch the ball, play on. He went for the ball. You can see he had his eyes on the ball. Worse liars than lawyers. Maybe professional lies are truth, afterall. My bad.
But you want Man City punished for 115 . . . . thinking it will cancel out eventually to randomness, as you claim.
Your desires are deliberately inconsistent.
And that template is what I refer to as bias.
Thrill,
I could see your lips moving, but your really talking out of another part of your anatomy.
DEREK,
oh my how you impress me sometimes.
Does the above post count as indepth and intellectual discussion on your views?
Thrill made a lot of points that you could have actually debated but instead….
Admin Pat,
Point taken, I’ll respond back to Thrill and apologize and retract my uncalled for statement.
Thrill,
Please except my apologies for my uncalled for comment, I retract it.
I apologize once again.
Yes. The referee didn’t kick the ball for them. We have same point that you and the referees are inconsistent. Deliberately inconsistent.
How many times did the opponents delay the restart in the very same one that featured this Rice question of yours? How many cases of players delaying a restart that week in the Premier League? How many got booked? That is the deliberate inconsistency which is fraud.
For the Trossard Red: if you think that deserved a booking for attempting a pass, less than two seconds, after a challenge. Well, then, Van Persie more than deserved that red against Barcelona.
Thank you.
Thrill,
Trossard’s barge in the back of Silva warranted a second yellow card, which you conveniently overlook.
I find it difficult to take anything you say seriously to be honest.
Teams are inconsistent, and sadly officials rightly or wrongly are to.
But let’s do what you do, and go along with the ridiculous conspiracy theory. That’s easier isn’t it.
DEREK:
You were on about the referee not kicking the ball away for them.
I’m pointing to the fact he didn’t “kick the ball away” attempting a pass less than two seconds after a challenge.
There you go again with “Trossard’s barge in the back of Silva warranted a second yellow card, which you conveniently overlook.” What was Trossard carded for, a barge?
As for Rice kicking the ball away:
the ball was rolling . . . which you conveniently overlook.
Stop deceiving yourself.