Why we trust “The Process” by Lloyd
Arsene Wenger’s lack of ruthlessness and holding on to players who were under-performing, and eventually losing the dressing room which led to his demise, is what led to the challenges we are facing. For years under Wenger, the supporters had to watch the team regressing until Arsenal was dumped out of the UEFA Champions League competition.
In came Unai Emery who was treated very unfairly. Because the players were running the scene and didn’t want to buy into his philosophy. The same Unai Emery who is leaving Arsenal with Egg on our faces, guiding Villarreal to Europa cup glory and now in the semi-finals of the ECL. That just shows that the players were the problem all along.
In December 2019 Mikel Arteta was appointed as coach of AFC. There was much unhappiness among Arsenal supporters. At the same time the world was hit by the Covid – 19 pandemic which saw the footballing world come to a standstill. Not ideal for a manager who just started his career at the club. Despite the many challenges, Mikel Arteta managed to steer Arsenal to the FA cup final. The defending champions, Premier League side Manchester City, were eliminated by Arsenal in the semi-finals on 18 July. Arsenal won the final 2–1 against Chelsea, their first win since 2017 and fourth in seven years, for their fourteenth FA Cup trophy.
It was at this point that the Gunners faithful saw something that was lacking by other managers. Mikel Arteta had inherited a very ill-disciplined Arsenal outfit with rifts in the dressing room. Senior players like Mesut Ozil, Pierre Emerick Aubameyang and others were making the team a nightmare to manage. A clear out was imminent and it required wisdom and tact to start rebuilding the Arsenal team.
This was the beginning of “The Process”. The rebuilding process had begun in 2020 and this would be gradual in order to transition in a new dawn under Arteta. It would require a manager that is ruthless and unapologetic, yet diplomatic enough not to bring the Club into disrepute.
Arteta laid out his philosophy in his first interview for Arsenal’s media channel back in December 2019. On the pitch, he called for passion, dominance, aggression and playing in the opponents’ territory. Off it, there were “non-negotiables” – respect, discipline, humility, accountability, unity and trust.
It was evident that the players he inherited were not up to the task at hand. It was time to wield the axe. To get rid of the rot in the Arsenal team seemed like a very challenging if not impossible task. There are not many managers that would survive this process. It became very evident that players expected the manager to be fired. They were not willing to move on and looked to sit out their contracts, making the rebuilding process a daunting task. But Mikel with the help of Edu and the board pushed back even harder. Side-lining players forcing them to go out on loan and even terminating some contracts. It was necessary to disband the player-Mafia ruining our club.
We have managed to get rid of most of them, but there are still many more whose contracts are running out. Not all players are part of the rot. There are players like Mohammed Elneny, Alexandre Lacazette and Granit Xhaka who has shown immense professionalism, under very hard circumstances, playing alongside inexperienced yet brave young players, acting as an example. However, Lacazette and Elneny will probably be leaving end of the season and it is unfortunately time to replace them. The difficulty is that we need to get rid of many players on our books in order to complete the rebuilding process. Therefore “The Process” is not yet complete.
When you look at the players that still need to leave, the same players that many Arsenal fans were moaning about, you will realize that it is not easy to just replace them. We need the right calibre of players with the right discipline and age. Given the transfer market it is very difficult to do this all in one season. Therefore “The Process” needs time and patience – and a lot of money that cannot be splashed all at once and recklessly.
Let’s look at some players that will be leaving. Hector Bellerin, Konstantinos Mavropanos, Pablo Mari, Lucas Torreira, Ainsley Maitland – Niles, Matteo Guendouzi, Reiss Nelson, Alex Runarsson, Bernd Leno (all these not good enough to don the Arsenal jersey).
Then there’s Alexandre Lacazette, Mohammed Elneny (although professional were just not good enough, unfortunately they have come to their end), and Eddie Nketiah (who we cannot allow to dictate to management how often he should be played. He still has a lot to prove at this level. He is still young and must be patient.)
Looking at the above list it is clear to see that the manager still has a lot of work to do. Therefore, The Process continues. We Trust The Process!!!
Please note: your opinion is your opinion, it is not everyone’s opinion. We are all entitled to an opinion so let us be respectful and have a healthy debate.
Kind regards
Lloyd Schatz
VIDEO – A great win for the Gunners at Stamford Bridge and Mikel Arteta was in an upbeat mood after the game…
Well put together article 👏. Anyone thinking that the process of changing the attitude and players at the club would just take a couple of years is living in cloud cuckoo land.
But the team is mostly Arteta’s surely they are on board with his plans ? Shouldn’t be much of an attitude since the club said Arteta has changed the culture of the club. Wasn’t klopp in a champions league final in his 3rd season? With Loris Karius in goal and a bench of solanke, Lallana, Klavan and Clyne. Pretty sure he didn’t spend quarter of a billion to get there but yeah I agree you’d have to be on cloud cuckoo land to think Arsenal under Arteta could do the same.
This article is trash done with little or no information at all. Just biased opinions.
Leno, Mavropanos, Mari, Guendouzi, Runarsson, Maitland-Niles.. all not good enough. Funny how it was Arteta who sanctioned the purchases of Runarsson and Mari LOL. It was also Arteta who VETOED of selling Maitland-Niles after we had won the FA Cup..
Also Leno was the first choice for the first 18 months MA was in charge. It was also Arteta who decided to sell Martinez to Villa, therefore deeming Leno GOOD ENOUGH for Arsenal (then he brought in Runarsson as backup!).
Also Guendouzi has been capped by the France national team this seasib for Marseille this season which is quite the feat itself. Also Mavropanos has earned this and last season RAVING reviews about his displays for Stutgart. This is highlihted by Germany legend Dietmar Hamann comments about him.
This article is just so bad. Defend Arteta sure, but please do come up with solid arguments and not just delusional fanboyism.
Well put together and accurate information Dajuhi. Its funny how we put our views together say what we think, get called fickle and other derogatory terms and people come back with no explanations at all, except baseless spiel.
DaJuhi yeah it makes me laugh when People say Guendouzi and AMN not good enough for Arteta’s team yet Lokonga is ? Bellerin not good enough but Cedric is? Saliba not good enough for this team but Ben White is ? So many issues but most notably the managers ego which is huge.
👍👍
Tel me the name of ANY manager that doesn’t have a huge ego please…
I’d be surprised if Jesse marsh had a huge ego Pat 😝
Roy Hodgson?
Every Manager has a couple of bad purchases. Surely Arteta is not an exception bro.
Niles… are you sure Arteta vetoed the sale? Beside we all thought Niles was gonna be great. I don’t hear his name anymore from fans. He ain’t having a great time in Roma.
For Mavropanos. Not every player Is destined to make it in the Premier League. Guys how many times Have you watched him play in the Premier League? Have you forgotten the constant injuries? He thrive in Germany does not automatically translate to the premier league. besides He may not be suited to us. look at the case of Lukaku on Chelsea.
As for Leno, You need to understand something You should be able to define the attributes You want in your goalkeeper or players. Let me know is not that bad, But he lacks certain features such as command office area, a presence, and extreme comfort in playing from the back…and oh! Ramsdales launching passess. Besides he had cost us games due to his lack of concentration and others…
For Matinez, you don’t hold your team to ransome and shutting out the posibility of competing for your spot because you had ten good games at a time the entire team was motivated. Again, the decision to let Martinez go and retain Leno was all a gamble as well that you now hold claim to as proof of Arteta’s shortcoming. the truth is that you have the benefit of hindsight.
if the club had kept him and it did n’t work out, the tirade would have been how we could have taken the money instead and how the club was bad at business and does not have a vision bla bla bla. Who remembers Willock and how many thought he should stay at the club after his good loan at Newcastle?
Guendouzi..well. He is clearly talented. yes. but Common, he Thrives in where, the French League! where he has time on the ball and space. Have you guys forgotten when players used to run circles around him, how he escorts players with the ball? his glaring lack of pace? How we fans also slated him for slowing down game speed at the time?
All i am saying is that, no one is perfect. Artetal will make his many daft and even stupid mistakes.
No outcome is certain even when possibilities are higher. who thought we would beat Chelsea 4-2 today? That mean team.
We fans can only turn back and say we knew or know better cos we have not responsibiity for the outcome and hindsight to thank. if you were in Arteta’s position an knew the things he knows.. how you would act is still not a certainty in itself. A lot of soft and hard factors will affect your decison.
I think the problem with those who criticis Arteta at every chance lies in the fact that, they expect him to be perfect and that in itself is immaturity.
those you claim are making excuses for Arteta may well be the ones who have a balanced perception. Although some may be fanatical.
balanced in the sense that they understand things will not always go his way, he is not perfect, he is infact, a rookie manager, lots of factors that most call excuses are facts and real and they influence outcomes,
Nicely written snow. I would say some of the criticism towards Arteta is just frustration on our lack of real progress to challenge for the league and not personally on him.
I’ve had a rethink on our chances of competing for the league in the next five years, and I can’t see it happening 🤔 with any Manager we bring in 😩.
Unfortunately we are in a ridiculous tough league, where only vast amounts of money can make inroads.
Just think about the investment the teams at the top are going to make in the summer 🙁 city with harlaand,….utd getting the best out of that team plus incoming players, Chelsea with new owners.
Liverpool, Newcastle to be the new power house….
These teams are investing to stay at the top when they are already at the top. Unfortunately we missed that boat since the last time we genuinely was considered the best team in the league.
Luckily Arsenal don’t need money, so we have to go down the youth route with outstanding individual purchases (nunez etc).
If we had a world class striker this season, we would be third imo…
Sry went off topic a bit….
Klopp yes,…But he was already 10 or more years in management/coaching by that time right???
experienced!
Steve Bruce has how many years of experience and how many champions League finals has he played in?
Yes it is mostly his, but the rebuilding hasn’t finished yet. Not sure if you’ve noticed but the attitude has changed dramatically. Players not turning up late for training, not turning up late for the NLD, not arriving a day late from a trip abroad, not playing up in training, not playing up at team a dinner, not getting time off to spend a few days at home with the parents and then going on holiday in February to see your girlfriend and not slowly walking off after being subbed in a Cup Final and saying to the Head Coach I swear your not a coach.
Klopp spent just short of £220m in getting Liverpool to that CL Final and since then has spent another £319m. So far Arteta has spent £234.6m, but then Klopp didn’t have players doing what I posted in my first paragraph.
Never did I think Arteta would do what Klopp did, as they had different jobs to do, but then I didn’t think Arteta would win a major trophy so quickly.
HD tell me why a club the size of Arsenal were chasing after a rookie assistant in the first place? My best guess was to save money but ironically going down that route is gonna cost the club more money that it would have been signing an elite coach, Arteta reportedly wants another 7/8 players.
Probably because they realised the club needed a strict disciplinary manager. Pep seems to be strict with his players as well, seem to remember him dropping Grelish and Foden earlier this season for breaking the clubs rules.
It’s not about saving money, it’s heading in a new direction and that means getting rid of certain bad eggs. Those bad eggs then need replacing and the players that Arteta wants don’t come cheap. Remember the selling club will only sell if the buying club meet their valuation of the player.
I get all that but Pep and Arteta are not similar the only similarities those two have they are both Spanish. We could have gone out and got an experienced disciplinary coach and I’m sure there is plenty out there.. I still believe there is many fans who believe because Arteta has worked alongside pep that Arteta is like a younger version and he’s really not.. if Arteta was an assistant at Wolves would fans still feel the same about him ? I would agree that some players definitely needed moving on and we definitely need to add quality but what worries me is that come the summer he’s gonna go for quantity over quality to fill up the squad and adding more youth prospects to an already young squad is not the way to go! The club needs to find the right balance between youth and experience and I’m not sure the manager will do that because of his inexperience.
They similarities don’t finish with them both being Spanish, it continues with them both coming through the Barcelona youth system, which may well have been another reason why the club appointed Arteta.
I honestly think that in the Summer the club will go for a majority of more experienced players and a couple of younger players.
Trust the process – based on what? What has the kroenkes board, Vinai, Edu and Arteta done in the past to make everyone believe in a process? The club has continuously lied to fans ever since moving to the Emirates and we are still waiting on challenging the likes of Bayern Munich and Real Madrid’s of this world 16 years on. I don’t like how fans compare our situation with Liverpool’s, firstly they went out and got a top top manager not a rookie assistant and they didn’t fill the squad up with future hopefuls that might come good or pay players to leave or sell on the cheap they could sell average players like Solanke for 20 mil we couldn’t even do that with Guendouzi. What’s the clubs plan this summer? Sign another load of youths and then say we have to be patient and then again the year after? Does fans believe while this club invests in a youth project all other teams are standing still and by the time these players possibly turn good other teams will have declined! Doesn’t work like that does it, the PL is an extremely competitive league now and lots of teams are constantly adding quality to they’re teams.. I’m all for integrating youths into the team along with experienced quality.
@Kev82
RealTalk…
Well said Kev
I stopped after the first paragraph ,blaming Wenger 3 -4 years after he’s gone for Arteta shortcomings was all I needed to read .
Dan if Arteta was so great then why didn’t Everton or any other club go for him? What happens from here on is on Arteta not Emery or Wenger and it will hilarious if that’s used as another excuse.
May your day be blessed.
Enough of promise and fail.
Klopp at this stage in Liverpool was a finalist of UCL, we can’t even make Europa and yet they went to compare this fallacy project to klopp everytime.
I am weak.
We are not gullible anymore.
We have been on a project for more than a decade, the project ended up getting us out of European competition.
Something the previous managers were doing and get enough of sales on players.
Now we either pay players to leave or sell them for peanuts.
The declined is real.
Youth project, and no academic players to name in 3 years that has become part of the project and they keep saying they have restored the culture.
Egos and toxic, average players but same manager went to resigned Luiz, gave Auba the highest wages, have xhaka and gave same laca and nketia another deal until those ones rejected it.. signed Mari, runnerson, Soares , lokonga , travares, Willian.
They will come and tell you they are not his signing but edu.
It’s only when players he signed are not performing well they became automatically not signed by Arteta. But once the players his performing it called Arteta signing…
Hear ,hear you’re spot on there! This article is a load of tosh written by an Arteta fanboy who has no idea what he’s talking about. Even trying to compare us to Liverpool is laughable, but so many Arteta fanboys keep clinging to the hope we’ll turn out like them to justify their belief in him.
All of that and you still didn’t explain the so called”Process”. You just laid blame elsewhere and gave a bunch of excuses, not to mention kicked the can further down the road.
One fact eluded you also. The very same toxic, not good enough, ill disciplined player Mafia, who were not up to the task, were the ones who beat MC and won the FA Cup.
But hey, trust OJT Coaches”process”…IJS
NY_Gunner 💯 mate 👍 they say Arteta won 2 trophies but fail to mention with the toxic useless dross 😆I’ve noticed a lot of fans behind the process now uses the words Toxic, Dross and reactionary a lot haha.
Not until your heroes backed away from the process.
Now it used to be emery who lost the dressing room, now wenger has been included.
What I don’t understand is how come we haven’t seen any of these players call out Wenger or emery, or see any evidence of the dressing room being lost under their management.
But we have seen players come out to call out Arteta or his unfair treatment with them but we couldn’t call that losing the dressing room.
Can someone make me understand??.
Secondly the process was reported to take 3 years and a champion league trophy to be delivered in 3rd year.
Next season will make it exactly 3 years since he became the manager and we are not even sure of participating in the competition.
Arteta had half year to examine the team, and he came to the conclusion of the process taking 3 years. Let assume we are willing to be patient, till when should we expect this process to be completed??
Many compared his process to that of klopp, never seen where klopp claimed to go on a process when he was appointed, and that 3years of klopp brought them the Ucl our manager promised.
Just like there’s anywhere klopp claimed he will deliver the Ucl for Liverpool in 3years but he went ahead to do exactly that..
If we follow this process till next year knowing he will be getting some of the players he wanted come summer and we still finish out of top4, should we still stay behind the process and give it more years than it has taken already..
What exactly is the plan? Many claimed the goal for this season is to be in top6, what is the goal for next season???
It’s high time we start setting them right from now before we go into another season.
Is next season goal another top6 finish, with no trophy expected?
If we make top 4or Top6 we can trust the process and allow Artetal two years additional contract. The process should not take eternity to achieve there is always the target set by all employers for their newly employed coach.
This is a timely posting.
Happy it has been finally explained to the faithful, though I may not agree with in its entirety, am over ninety percent with it.
As I first make mention some days ago, for the name to be changed from process to something like the Marshall plan 11, my reason for doing so was as a result of lots of fans were struggling with the name.
In my opinion fans was seing it as just another project and the gaffer buying time to get his feet wet, knowing name change was just symbolic but I was thinking of reinforcing the massive task at on.
Arsenal need rebuilding and it must be carried out now regardless of who is in charge this summer, please note Pepe didn’t walk in Man city and started a process, it was started a few years before he got there.
Let the rebuilding begin, the gaffer have shown real leadership to atleast initiate the process
In the article not once were goals or standards mentioned. Filled with excuses and calls for patience though.
Any manager can rip up contracts and move players for free.
So Arteta gets praise for FA Cup and players get blame and called dross?
As if it’s hard to move on players when you let them leave for free or sell like Mavro 2 million, Guendouzi for 8 million, yeah daunting task.
Also, sorry but not acceptable to lower standards to excuse one manager while firing 2 better ones.
This “process” expects us to celebrate 6th, when years before we were calling for 2 others to be sacked?
Pull the wool from your eyes and expect more from a big club. 16 years of excuses and some still happily buy in, JS.
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Trust the process my foot. Arteta will not buy a quality big time player. Why? This is because he wants young players he can control – selfish reasons instead of over all interest of the club.
By this time next season, arteta supporters club will still plead for more time to complete the process. The so called rejected stones have all became the head corner stones in their respective clubs.
So Partey, Soares and Mari are all young players then ? The younger players he’s bought ARE in the interest of the club, as hopefully they’ll be here for a long time and they want to play for the club.
Article is nothing but a blame game…
Wenger’s football was much much better than Mediocre Arteta’s Football…
Author tried to put all blame on Wenger and players instead of pointing out predictable tactics by Arteta…
And these ill players laid Arteta the foundation in club by winning FA Cup..
This “trust the process” thing seems to have grown a life of it’s own. Where did it come from and why are Arsenal fans so fixated on it? Did Arteta and Edu repeatedly say it or get get it printed on t-shirts?
I’m not arguing that Edu and Arteta shouldn’t be accountable or that there aren’t legitimate reasons for folks to be uncertain that they are right for the club. What I’m asking is why has a fairly benign phrase ‘trust the process” become a stick to beat Arteta and Edu with?
One would expect that any manager or DoF would have a process, or plan, that they would want to follow to achieve success. One might also assume that there would have to be some element of trust by stakeholders in that process.
Spot on! What some naively call ” the process” , I call natural evolvement and ALL clubs, ALL the time, at least TRY to evolve!
So the word “process ” used only for us is nonsensical and incorrect. THes buzz phrases(which it elf is a buzzphrase) are dso unthinkingly used byt generation social media.
I am nearly 71 and was already 45 with mature life attitudes, including no social media, even before any Gooner had even heard thr name of WENGER, and his glory first decade, which has so spoiled the younger Gooner generation with unrealistic expectations and ridiculously over ambitious DEMANDS!
71 Jon so you weren’t around during the Herb Chapman days ? 😆
I remember Arteta and Edu somewhat speaking repeatedly on “the project” when they were making their changes. Mari, Cedric, Runnarson, Luiz, Willian.
After that was resulted in an 8th place finish again, it then morphed into “the process” with the influx of young players in the Summer.
Unfortunately it is just as ethereal and yet another catchphrase to excite supporters to buy in.
It has no goals or standards, and continues to move the goal posts to avoid the accountability that goes with sub-standard results.
“Patience” is the only thing we hear, after 2 1/2 years still. Gone were the standards imposed on Wenger and Emery, and we are less for it in my opinion.
Only if management is easy, everyone here would have won the EPL….. I still believe the process is on and improving simple.
Don’t believe a word that comes out of Edu’s mouth and shame on you for being so gullible. I’m looking at the season finale, and I’m going to stick my neck out big time. We’ll beat Man U. easily, the Spuds in a tight one, Everton easily, draw with Leeds and lose to West Ham, and Newcastle. That should give us 10 points and possibly enough to get fourth spot. We definitely don’t deserve it, but will take it. Saka, ESR, Odegaard, Martinelli, Tierney, Tomi and by even Eddie N. are the future and definitely deserve better than Arteta and Edu.
Joe.S exactly what I’m thinking! Let’s hope come the end of the season Arteta takes a long hard look at his time managing Arsenal and “deep dives” into the positives and negatives. Let’s hope he adjusts some of flaws that has created the problems we’ve had this year. He came out talking about playing nkietia more which with hindsight he realized he should have. Most hear have known and voiced that for sometime now.
@Joe
My goodness. Mate, it’s just a game of football, it’s just sports (a hobby etc).
No need to have such an unhealthy grudge against two people that have not done anything disrespectful to you personally or the club. What exactly have they both done that has put the club into disrepute causing you to get this emotionally triggered?
You’ve got to calm yourself down, get off social media for a week or two and it will work wonders for your mental health.
Abit like your shirt selling genius posts every day for donkeys months hey goonster ,at least practice what you preach hey mate 👍
Joe. S not sure if you know it but West Ham play Frankfurt on the Thursday, then us on the Sunday followed by Frankfurt again the Thursday. They might field a weakened team against us due to the 2 semi final games.
If we finish 4th then that is where we deserve to finish.
This your comment right here is why many can’t take the claimed of clearing out players with ego serious.
You mean Auba was doing all these but the manager ignore and gave him that bumper deal.
So he new how toxic auba is to the dressing room and still decided to keep him.
Went ahead to give that same toxic player the armband.
Then Arteta should be question base on that.
It’s this season he finally realized Auba has been doing all these.
Ooh let me guess he wasn’t the manager when auba was doing all that.
Wtf are you going on about ? What has your post got to do with our game sandwiched between West Hams 2 semi final games ? 🙄
Well my comment was directed to one of your comment.
Not particularly this one. but the one that you mentioned all the toxic traits of Auba even though you didn’t mention his name in particular.
So my question still stand
How does it takes Arteta 2years to find that out?
Handed him bumper deal, made him a captain, came late to training.
Non of you came out to labelled him toxic then but all of a sudden you all remember now that he’s toxic.
Well at the time of getting his bumper deal he was banging the goals in and obeying the club rules. Only after signing that contract he started to play up and resort to the behaviour that got him his moves from St Etienne and Dortmund.
You mean bumper deal was the one who brought in all these toxic traits in him.
So how come you know he had at his two previous team without them having financial power as Arsenal.
Good you mentioned he has always has it in him right from his old club, they edu and Arteta failed for giving him such a deal and in making him a captain then, because I am sure they are aware of his toxic traits in his previous club like you do.
But they decided to keep the toxic around the club and even make him a captain.
‘We definitely don’t deserve it’
If by some miracle we finish 4th then we definitely deserve it. Why ever not?
Get 4th and we can start and trust the “process” but a process to work has to have progression. The majority of “dross” “deadwood” won Arteta the FA cup and finished 5th in the league. Until he beats that, the process can not be seen to be working.
Well,good to know that I’m not the only one who stopped reading the article after the 1st paragraph.
I can agree on some aspects of this article and not on others
I recall Arteta saying CL in 3 years but if he actually said that he could win it within that time frame then that was his complete inexperience letting him down. I’m all in favour of self belief – you wouldn’t last a week in football management if you didn’t – but winning the top European trophy as a newcomer to the role, is a word I don’t use often, and that’s delusional.
Arteta has done some things very well. I believed then and I do now, that the influence wielded by Ozil was incredibly detrimental to the club. Interfering in club matters such as offering to pay the blinking mascot was outrageous. It was absolutely none of his business. Did the younger, inexperienced players become unduly influenced? Quite possibly. Guendouzi showed himself up by not apologising to Arteta and I believe, Edu too. It’s got nothing to do with his ability but total lack of respect instead. AMN seemed to think he could demand to play in midfield. Then it was the senior players who waved their arms about after cringeworthy losses, refusing to take responsibility. The culture that was endemic within the football side of things was rank.
Whether it was Arteta or another manager, those issues needed sorting out. Look at the mess that ManU are in to see how poorly that club has been run since Fergie retired.
I think a happy camp goes a long way.
Arteta has been given a once in a lifetime chance to reinvigorate a club that has enormous history and a world wide fan base. I repeat, he wouldn’t have been my first choice. The club appointed him and it was a brave decision to do so. The list of top managers is minuscule and I recall as well that top managers wouldn’t consider us due to the perceived lack of backing by the owners.
I have been one of the few patient supporters who has at times wavered – largely due to some dull football and the concern that Arteta may not be up to the task.
I find myself asking- ‘has he done really well considering his lack of experience so give him a bit longer OR has Arteta reached his own personal heights which are not where Arsenal should be and, therefore, not good enough for Arsenal??
I’m not ready to answer those questions quite yet but the end of the season position and application by him and the team at that point, will make the decision for me.
To be fair Sue, if we get 4th this season then he has credibility to what he said and also credibility to trust the process.
@SueP
Fair enough assessment Goonerette…
“I’m not ready to answer those questions quite yet but the end of the season position and application by him and the team at that point, will make the decision for me.”
If all fans thought like this there would have been no division at all.
Sue P an excellent and wise post, as so often from yourself. I do not quite share the sentiments in your final two paras only though, as I cannot judge him so definitely as you seem to do, ONLY by our final position this season. I do firmly believe that he has special qualities of direction , decisivemness andf good judgement about those player, esp those tou correctly list, as being harmful to our club abnd thr urgent need to get then out as he has done so well and wisely. I would STRESS that good work rather more strongly even than you have done. I contrast WengerS personal player softness and his too kindly an approach to the no nonsense decisiveness of MA.
Our smaller but strong in good attitudes squad of today is infinitely superior to the fast fading and soft centred one left behind by Wenger, IMO, which is why I do NOT harbour doubts about MA any more now.
I STILL DID SO A YEAR OR SO AGO, BUT I HAVE SEEN THE GOOD WORK AND GIVEN DUE CREDIT FOR THAT AND AM CONFIDENT ABOUT OUR FUTURE IN HIS HANDS, WHETHER OR NOT WE MAKE TOP FOUR THIS TIME.
I so much agree and endorse all the other points you make, esp about the harmful players you listed who either sponged or disrespected us. Ozil and Auba did BOTH!
Jon
I do see your points about judgment day at the season end.
I think I will know by then if we are heading in the right direction. It’s not all about top4 – although I hope it happens- it’s more about are we looking likely to become consistent. Has Arteta gained experience and improved his know how to go that extra distance next season? The thought of capitulation and poor mentality in the last weeks of the season would make me rethink.
I don’t think Lucas has been given a fair chance under the current regime.
Call it what you will but “the process” for me involves removing the dead wood and bringing in the players who will deliver what you want.
Part of the process is being delivered – the reduction in the wage bill, freeing up of resources and the emphasis on youth but its the psychological frailty and lack of a tactical plan B or C that concerns me.
Perhaps he is just looking for the right players to deliver his vision for Arsenal..
Fair enough if the club had reduced the wage bill by having a clear plan on the asset side of things but Reducing the wage bill by mis managing contracts, IE letting players run down contracts or giving them away for free is not something to Pat Arteta and edu on the back for .
This in turn as left us with such a thin squad for the run in that we are now seen the consequences of their actions .
Where we had top 4 in our own hands now we are once again struggling and hoping other teams will slip up .
With one important caveat only, I agree with virtually all the points Lloyd makes in his fine article. This article needs digesting and thoroughly understanding, in particular by those who are constantly anti MA.
What he constantly refers to as the process – which is my caveat**- is actually simply the need for all fans to be patient and to understand that real success takes sometime to come We are not entitled to ever demand or expect it at all IMO.
I have long believed that thr glory first decade of Wenger has spoiled the many demanding fans who constantly spew their nonsense against MA.
We who had already lived half a normal lifespan before anyone in England had even heard the name of Wenger, have not been spoiled by that unusual and untypical decade and have a far less sense of entitlement than many of the younger fans do. I wish Lloyd had tackled that point inhis piece but I believe he is probably still young and that may not have occurred to him, as it will not have occurred to other young folk either.
CAVEAT** .The word process and how it is so often linked to MA irritates me, because to my logical mind, all clubs are ALWAYS going through a so called “process”, if you careto think about it! The misuse and constant calling of what we are ALL living through as a “process” is to put undue TIME stress on the normal and natural striving of ALL clubs to improve their team.
I prefer “evolvement” as a more accurate description.
Ditch “process” then but congrats on an otherwise excellent and mature article.
Agree Jon with you about real success takes time and about the early years of Wenger has spoiled the fans. Imo these fans have only been fans since those great years. They’ve never seen us spend a season battling against relegation like we did in the 75/76 season.
I reckon I was one of the few who had heard of Wenger, as in ’92 the brother of a then friend of mine played for Werder Bremen and scored against Wengers Monaco in the final of the CWC.
Let’s be honest hair dryer
No one knows as much as you do they 😂
“What was it “
“I’ve forgotten more than you know about Arsenal “
In other news I’ve learned how to use Google and wiki .
Mr history LMFAO
Google and Wiki 🤣🤣🤣🤣. The fact is The Arsenal have been in my family for over 100 years, going back to when we played at the Manor ground in Plumstead. The history of The Arsenal has been passed down through the generations. Bet you think we were founded in London 😂
Oh and get my name right in future.
Goonster you sound like one of these patronising creeps whotalk the talk but never walk the walk. Firstly you don’t know me from a bar of soap, so don’t make asinine assumptions. I enjoy watching good football even at the local suburban level knowing full well that it is what it is. However at Arsenal a level I expect a higher standard of accountability. Like my soul brother Turkish from aftv I am happy to be proven wrong.
If, at the end of the season, we compare every single aspect of the results, then we can either claim regression or progression.
It’s as simple as that and, if everyone stops claiming and comparing until the end of the season, then there will be no doubt whatsoever.
Then, of course, opinions will play a part in what the results reveal , which is what every article is based on, unless it contains FACTS.
Lloyd’s analysis of the situation, apart from actual results, dates and players whereabouts is simply his opinion, but one that, again, tries to compare when the story is not complete.
The only comparison that can be made, is AW ‘s and UE’ s last season and MA’s first complete season regarding results…. and I see no progression, only regression.
But, of course, I hope that come the end of this season, there will be a progression, not only from his first season, but against those of AW and UE’s final season.
Let’s not forget, Mikel set his time limit of three years and that’s how he should be judged – nothing to do with anyone else.
I agree, but the problem is that some of our fans have a strange way of looking at things
– Some believe that Emery, but more so, Wenger left the club in a great position, therefor Arteta should be doing much better.
– There are some that accept the truth that Wenger left the club in a shambles, with Emery slightly adding to it, but despite that, Arteta should still be performing asap
– And finally there are some that think we should change a manager EVERY season if they are not getting the results, regardless of what they inherited, and the level of competition.
Whilst everyone is allowed their opinion, these three examples are just wrong on every level.
JONBO, I am with you in thinking that so many Gooners, esp younger ones spoiled by WENGERS special and extremely rare glory decade, have become demanding to the point of arrogance and unfairly expect and some demand , even daily, that MA MUST return our club to those glory days .
It is unfair, foolish and juvenile, though as a man now over 70, my views might be expected from a fan who was attending, almost 40 years BEFORE any of us had even heard of Wenger. PERSPECTIVE!!
Like many much older fans, I can face thse two (Kipling) Imposters of triumph and disaster in the same way and treat them both as the imposters they really are!
I agree jon fox. It’s like there was no Arsenal before Wenger came along, which is strange when you compare Graham’s record over only 9 years I think it was, compared to 22 years under Wenger.
Jonbo, Spot on about how many of todays Gooners have never known nor can even inagine some of the real old First division lows we older ones can easily remember.
They give we older fans a vital sense of context and perspective. I would not like to be a younger fan today, if it meant – as it almost certainly would mean- I had no sense of fair play or perspective.
Those qualities are vital to keeping a balanced view; one that is so sadly and clearly lacking in so many of the regular JA critics of MA.
Dan wasn’t he banned on here 😳
So, because you see it as the truth, it is the truth?!?!?!?
You recently accused me of only going back seven years (your figure by the way) with regards to AW’s PL position – so, just for the record, here are his final positions from his first to last season.
3.1.2.2.2.1.2.1.2.4.4.3.4.3.4.3.4.4.3.2.5.6.
MA’s… 8.8.?
Now, for those of us who base the truth on factual figures and not opinions, “seven years of continuous regression under AW is not true, but those who believe there is progression, are sorely mistaken….. at this present time.
Let’s hope MA can bring back those twenty years of top four finishes during the regression years, as he tries to emulate his father figure’s time at the helm.
24 players signed
4 loaned since Wenger left the club
27 players departed
12 loaned since Wenger left
443 million spent
101 million got back since Wenger left
Net spend 342 million
Now how many more players do we need to sign before Wenger is let of the hook ,10,25 ,50?
How many more millions do we have to spend 20,100,500? Before Wenger is not talked about anymore .
Ofc the club wasn’t in the best state when he departed but that excuse as run its course now ,only fans that had a problem with Wenger would use this as one IE jonny boy and Thirdman .
The problem is Dan, they don’t want to accept facts put before them, but come out with unsubstantiated soundbites like “seven years of regression” or “signs of progression” but never back them up.
I would love Mikel to finish in the top four, improve our defensive record etc etc and OF COURSE, it takes time…. but don’t try and pull the wool over everyone’s eyes, with these rhetorical statements that are just not true.
Certainly voice your opinion on how you feel it is going, but don’t try to hoodwink others into believing MA has improved things, when the results… to date,, simply do not bear that out, no matter who, what, why, whenever!!!
I will be rooting and cheering my head off tomorrow and I hope we thrash united but let’s just get the three points and take a step closer to that 4th spot, so derided by those who now see it as the holy grail.
Mikel Arteta said everything that needed to be said about Arsene Wenger – let’s hope he can emulate and even go one better and become the most successful manager in our history… Time, results and facts will decide that.
For me it’s more about changing the way Wenger ran things at the club. Gone are the days where a player is allowed to miss games due spending New Year with his family back in Gelsenkirchen and then in February holidaying in Turkey with his then girlfriend. Training only lasting 40 minutes from February, crazy. Then the top 4 trophy over actual trophies.
Not forgetting lying, weakened teams in semi finals and blaming fans for his failure to win the PL.
Your correct about seven years continuous regression under Wenger not being true Ken1945…as it was much longer!
And for you to say there has been no progression under MA is an outright lie!
If that were true, then he wouldn’t have won a couple of trophies (first trophies since the Wenger era), the defending would be just as bad, we’d still have no discipline, players would still run the dressing room, we’d still have one of highest wages bills, with hardly any talent or hot prospects, they’d still be tons of noise coming out from the players and club like at Utd currently, and so on…
I must be imagining these things!
What hot prospects ?
Saka Martinelli?
Because they are the only 2 players that would get into any of the top 3 sides and both not Arteta signings ,or are you going to tell us he as made them this good .
Out of the 12 players Arteta as signed remainder he came in how many of them are hit prospects ?
So show the regression by using the stats for goodness sake!!!
You quote our defensive improvement, after spending out on six new defenders, at a cost of over £125,000,000…. so let’s see how that compares :
Wenger’s defence, that you claim couldn’t defend recorded the following over the last six seasons
37 – 41 – 38 – 36 – 44-51
After all the spending on said six defenders, here’s MA’s figures for his time.
48 – 39 – 39 with six games to go.
So, three of the four seasons, he has a worse record, he is just two goals away from tying Wenger’s third worst season, five away from his second worst season and eleven to equal his worst and final season.
Now, I sincerely hope we don’t concede any more goals in our last six games, but it is you who is lying, simply because you haven’t done your homework (again) and think that what you want to believe is factual.
You certainly imagined that!!!
I love the way that you now include the Community Shield as a trophy, that’s fine, as it makes Wenger’s total trophy haul up by a further seven…. perhaps it should even be another two, because it was AW and UE’s undisciplined players who won the two trophies for him.
Talking about the noise coming out of the club, remind what players it was who were accusing Wenger of what you THINK was happening.
I don’t recall any player catching a plane to force through a move, or terminating his own contract because he saw no future at the club, or giving golden boot players away for nothing, or sending out half a team on loan, selling others and then having to call up five players without any first team experience to make up the squad, or players told to take pay cuts to stop redundancies and then question the truth behind that statement, when 55 staff, a mascot and scouting staff were laid off…. or did I imagine all that?
Cutting the wage bill? Oh yes, good old Aubameyang being offered a reported £300,000 plus a week salary, only to be dropped from the squad just weeks later…. or did I imagine that?
No talent? God, you do leave yourself open!!!!
You just said how wonderful it was that MA won two trophies in his first SEASON!!!
Then he capitalised on the Saka /ESR grooming by AW, FL, PM and UE and still, after disposing of the dross, got knocked out in the 4th and 3rd round of the fa cup, finished 8th, lost a quarter of his 47 home games since making the club a “better place,”
Wenger, with all the c**p you write about him and his players, lost the same number of home games…. from 126 matches.
I’m not imagining these things, because I look, listen, study and equate the facts – you obviously don’t.
Still, the seasons end will show the facts, just keep an eye on those goals against, as that was the one area I agree Wenger should have improved on.
It will be interesting to see what jonbo reply will be.
Problem with Many of their opinion is that it lacks numbers to back it up.
You just showed us the defensive record of both managers. Bringing up the offensive one would make sure there’s nothing to debate because it’s no match.
No matter the improvement many of them are seeing, it’s definitely on the manager side and not on the team.
If you believe 8th twice is better than 5 and 6th respectfully, then the debate has been lost already.
The first 8th might have excuse but you can’t make an imaginary one for the second no matter how rotten the team might have been.
The League come next season will be very challenging and I am afraid we will finish below top4 and we will still be told we are progressing and to trust the process.
They cant back it up, it just blind faith, hoping it comes good and somehow works out with no basis to go on. I go on what i see, not what my heart wants to happen.
White,gabriel,ramsdale,partey,tomiyasu and odegaard are masterstrokes!!!
Odegaard ,Partey and white lols
I would agree about Ozil and Auba shown the door but MA should have never allowed Saliba to go out on another loan when he was clearly required at Arsenal. Instead of spending 50 M on White, we could have spent it on a midfielder/and backup RB. As regards the situation of Laca and Elneny, Laca will most probably leave and anyway he is giving lacklustre performances but I hope and wish Elneny stays, the man is hard working, loyal and does his job with minimum fuss.
When credit is due it should be given. Well done MA and our young Gunners. Well proven that even so called high profile experience but old stars and top managers can be loosers and on a heavy score. Go young Gunners go.