Is it time to part ways?
Arteta might not be the man that can win the league for Arsenal.
There is no job more difficult in football than being the manager. They praise you today and crucify you the next day. With all the love, comes the hate. Fans are fickle and you cannot take what they say to heart. No manager was more loved than Mikel Arteta a few weeks ago. Top of the league with a team on form, it felt as if he was in the driving seat of the title charge.
His luck turned and the results have not gone his way. One victory in seven games, two draws and three losses in a row, dropping from first to fourth. He’s fallen out of favour with this poor form and the fans are tired of waiting to win major silverware. They feel that his tactics are conservative, and the attack is lacklustre, resulting in the poor form. However, the fans do not forget how much Arteta has improved the squad over the seasons.
As his first managerial job, he has taken a struggling Arsenal to being title contenders over four years and is seen as one of the favourites to win it this season. He has introduced a new culture to the club, improved the team’s style of play and guided the team to higher finishes for the past two seasons.
The team has grown in leaps and bounds but has not overcome the last hurdle. If Arsenal don’t win a major trophy this year, how long until he does. Do they renew his contract and hope he is able to win a trophy. It’s sounds harsh, but is he able to win a major trophy so early in his career? Does he have the mentality to be a winner? The owners have a difficult decision, do they keep on with Arteta until he wins – or do they look for the next manager to take over.
Is Arsenal willing to start over with a new manager, establishing their own culture and style of play? Investing in a new set of players, spending more money on rebuilding the squad over. The other issue is if the club can get the right character that can improve the mentality of the team.
The market for managers at the moment is rough. The project at the club is attractive and could lure big managers to apply. The other option is sticking to Arteta. He has brought major changes to the club, but he has crumbled at the business end of the season. The team are very defensive and that takes away from the attack. Most of the attack is on the right and has become predictable, making it easy for teams to defend against. The quality of players allows them to beat teams but when it is better opposition, the result is harder to come by.
No matter what the decision is, there is no guarantee of any success. For most of the fans, that is all they want. Going 20 years without winning the league has fans feeling flustered. Coming close over the years but falling at the end, seeing rivals win it on a regular basis. It’s a level of disappointment no words can describe. The fans want the success that they missed out on for so long.
Mikel has brought us close to the summit. He should be given the opportunity to win it all. He’s earnt the opportunity for an extension with what he has done so far. If he fails to win at the end of the next contract, it’s time to try another manager. It is a results business, and with a club with our history, we want nothing less than success.
Vuyo Mataka
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Did you forget that he already won and FA cup?
He also seems to have massively improved the relationship between the club and the fans.
Lastly he hasn’t had the time or team to work with like Liverpool and city have so it’s not easy. I support him as long as I see progress and decent football.
Dan , As we have other Dans on JA, notably DAN SMITH, who is a regular writer and who hostsand runs the result prediction league, but who is also firmly negative about MA, can I suggest you use a surname or someother way to distinguish WHICH Dan you are please?
DAN SMITH ALSO WRITES UNDER SIMPLY DAN, when posting , though not when writing his articles.
In fact, it is only by reading your positive post of MA, that I realised you are not actually DAN SMITH, as he NEVER praises MA but only criticises him and all the time too.
This is the same Jon Fox who mocked when Mr Wenger also finished top 4 but now praises Arteta for the same
He struggles to explain that
So it seems you DAN, are the same DAN SMITH (WHO NOW CHOOSES TO DISCARD HIS SURNAME JUST TO CONFUSE US ALL).
Well what a surprise to see you, the most relentlessly negative fan on here, now make a surprse about turn and actually praise MA for once!!
Wonders will never cease. It wont last of course as your next piece will once again be relentlessly negative about MA, as usual
I AM CURIOUS THOUGH AS TO WHY THIS ONE OFF ABOUT TURN; DID YOU HAVE A SUDDEN DAN SMITH DELIBITATING ATTACK OF REALITY? !!
The problem with MA is that there is a lack of flexibility in his tactics and teams now know if they stop Saka and Martinelli they pretty much stop Arsenal. There isn’t enough coming from anywhere else.
The problem the board have is that they have invested so much in him financially it would be folly to remove him now or in the summer.
I think the end of next season should be the telling point. He would have had enough time to address the striker issue with a player of undoubted quality and also would have strengthened in other key areas such as LB and DM.
With this coach I doubt it if we will win any major trophy. He’s just an average coach who is lucky to be at arsenal at a time the owners are willing to spend money.
As much as I give MA a hard time he definitely has potential. Once he learns to start being flexible and drops the ego I believe he has a high ceiling. Mistakes will always be made, what frustrates most is the refusal to admit the mistakes and work on fixing them.
“You can’t fill a cup that’s already fill”
I just want to see him playing with a physically-dominant CF first, before writing him off
If he doesn’t win any trophy and a serial-winning manager like Tuchel or Ancelotti is available at the end of the season, I think he will be replaced
Gai, my issue with him is his rigid tactics and I am not too sure getting a physical towering CF will change things much. My reason been he is yet to adapt a tactics that allows long ball to Havertz when he plays false 9 for us against Liverpool in FA cup at the Emirate. Havertz remains our tallest supposed front man. Even Klopp instruct his defenders to double up on Saka. Arteta won’t do that and it shows his rigidity and lack of experience in certain games we wouldn’t have gotten better result
I will support him one more season if we stay in Top4 next season.
#certain games we would have gotten better result
We have to atleast gives the gaffer until phase five is completed before a detail assessment can be made.
But the Liverpool legend Jergen Klopp took took much longer to turn the Merseyside club around.
What is phase 5 then?
I had never even heard of phases 1,2,3 and 4…
Regardless of our opinions on different players and their use to the team. Four and a half years, 700 mil invested, Artetas own team and squad, we should be capable of winning major honours now. Failure to do so, means serious questions need asking. Everything has been afforded to Arteta, is he good enough to deliver?
100% correct
Reggie
I agree 100%. I don’t think it’s time to part ways, however it is time questions we’re asked and Arteta made uncomfortable on the hot seat.
He needs to change and evolve, less ego and stubbornness.
Maybe shake up his coaching staff? Bring in someone to help develop and improve youth, and promote for depth and possible options as depth/subs in the near future.
Help with man management; by far his worst characteristic.
Personally I think if he focused solely on first team coaching and left other aspects of club management to others we will be more successful.
Wenger had too much control and responsibilities, and it was detrimental to our club.
Arteta has no where near the experience to bear so much responsibility of club management. Walk before you run, let him focus on coaching the first team.
Exactly my sentiment ,I would love Freddie to come back and work with the young gunz
I don’t think Spurs fans would time bound Ange winning a trophy or out, and likewise Villa fans putting silverware or out demands on Emery
such short memories, Arteta has already won the FA Cup, coached Arsenal to unexpected 2nd last season, taken the Comm Shield from Man C, after 7 years out returned us to the Champions League, finished top of CL group in first season, exciting Europe’s elite fixtures in the knock-out stages to look forward to, top in the League at xmas…
…but perhaps most importantly has returned exciting football and exciting times back to watching Arsenal play football – last season and this season by far the most enjoyable to be an Arsenal fan than the previous 10 painful (at times boring) years
genuine Arsenal in veins, our captain comes back from learning from the best with one thing and thing only on his mind which is leading Arsenal back to glory – you can not question his motives, and ambition – every loss, every missed trophy, hurts him as much as us
if you can’t recognise the rejuvenating effect and general feel good factor that the club has had over the past few years then…
be careful what of what you wish for is what they say, no truer here
after doing our best Man U implosion impersonation for 6 years, we are out of it and even the most negative ‘supporter’ must give Arteta some credit for that
I know where I would rather be, and no way want to risk going back
Aesenal1886, I can generally agree with most of what you say, but “exciting football” this season?
Come on, I’ve been to every home PL match bar one and watched every other gane we’ve played via TV and I’ve never seen such boring, predictable football than this season.
I know we will have top possession, make more passes, create endless chances but then what?
The possession is mostly in sideways and backward passes.
The chances created are spurned.
It’s boring because I know it is going to happen – rinse and repeat.
I certainly haven’t given up on MA, but he has made so many mistakes and I wonder if he’s actually learning from them?
The daft thing is, most of them are self inflicted – Ramsdale, ESR, ridiculous contracts, late substitutions, rotation of players and yet, he has brought the club and its fans together in a way that sees The Emirates behind him in a way not seen since we last won the fa cup under Wenger.
Let’s see what happens at the end of the season and I have to ask, who would we replace him with?
Don’t get me wrong, we have at least five players that any manager would love to have, but who’s, realistically, out there?
KEN UPON CAREFULY READING YOUR EXCELLENT POST, I realise that we firmly agree on ALL the relevant matters about our current team and manager.
On VAR and on Wengers last 8 years or so, we wil never see eye to eye. But thoseyears are now almost ancient history, so I suggest we both leave THOSE disagreements where they belong, and in AW’s case, that is FIRMLY IN THE PAST.
BTW, I am composing yet another piece on VAR with some suggestions in it that I hope will find much agreement from BOTH sides of tthe VAR long running debate, between VAR pros like you and VAR antis like me.
Looking forward to it Jon, what do you think of Dan’s article on our African players?
NOT MUCH ACTUALLY KEN!! I dont enjoy reading pieces that distinguish players by nationality or ethnicity at all. I see them as unnecessarily divisive and not my style at all.
To be entirely clear, I am vert happy to discuss our best ever say CB, or winger or keepr etc But NEVER by race ethnicity of physical distinguishing, unimportant, superficial soi called “differences”.
I do not see WHY some people including DAN SMITH FIND IT OF ANY INTEREST.
I SEE ONLY ONE RACE, THE HUMAN RACE and could not care less where any of our players come from . I care ONLY what they accomplish or fail to accomplish when in our shirt.
I SEE DANS ATTEMPTS TO DIVIDE PLAYERS BY ETHNICITY OR NATIONALITY AS TEDIOUS , SMALL MINDED AND HARMFUL TO INCLUSIVENESS.
So you don’t see yourself as an Englishman then Jon?
I wonder why we have international teams representing their countries?
I think Dan’s article was one that helped define our club as one that welcomes anyone and they represent The Arsenal through their abilities as footballers.
Identifying their birthplace has to help others from the same country to see our club as a welcoming place to be and, in my opinion, that’s why we have such a huge world wide base.
WELL THAT IS YOUR OPINION KEN AND WHAT I WROTE ABOVE IS MINE. I must point out that you asked for my opinion and so I answered your question on what I thought of Dans piece.
As ever, I gave my honest considered opinion and you dont accept it, having asked for it.
Perhaps next time then, I may well not bother answering your questions.
I HAD NOT POSTED ON IT TIL THEN, AS IT DIDNT SURPRISE ME ONE BIT, since Dan has done such divisive pieces a few times before and will not listen to those like me, of whom there are a great many on JA, to judge by many PREVIOUS posts to earlier ethnicity pieces from DAN.
And to answer your deliberately facetious question , yes of course I am English, but that is purely an accident of birth and not in my control.
The state this country is in today, I cannot in truth say I am at all proud to be an English person, given the still rife unconscious racism which is STILL, even NOW. so common, esp among my own age group and older, in England.
However, I DO think overt racism, as opposed to unconscious racism, is far less common in England than in MOST other countries around the world.
My life philosophy on nationality and ethnicity is a polar opposite from your own and DANS.
Jon, your a little uppity my friend.
I asked your opinion, read it and then gave you mine.
Simple really, but if you don’t want to debate, I won’t bother asking your opinion.
What you call uppity KEN IS WHAT I call an honest straightforward opinion given , importantly, wirh FULL WELL SET OUT reasons for my view.
To have it argued with after having done that, is IMO a little depressing.
Not as depressing though as reading that your views are similar to DANS,as I HAD HOPED AND THOUGHT YOU WERE A LITTLE MORE ALL EMBRACING OF HUMANITY THAN THAT. . Sigh!
To be clear I AM ALWAYS HAPPY TO DEBATE WHEN I have already posted my thoughts, but when I DID NOT, as was the case here, it is a tad annoying to find you argue with my view,given ONLY because you specifically requested it in the first place.
I would also add that given my well known views on humankind over the many years you and I have both been on JA, surely you cannot seriously have expected me to agree with DANS VIEW?
IF you did however, then it shows how little you have previously read of my views on “ONE RACE ONLY, THE HUMAN RACE” and my life principles.
we were top of the league at xmas, just 3 weeks ago
was it this doom and gloom and boring football 3 weeks ago?
yes 3 weeks ago being praised for transformation to the best defence in the league, making us more credible title contenders
3 weeks on you would think the Emirates is burning to the ground
Even that time arsenal 1886, we all knew we rode on luck and were struggling to eke out results. We were sitting on time bomb waiting to explode. Come this weekend, Arteta will still play the same negative football tactics. Late changes and side ways and back ways passes just to prove to some his die hard supporters that he will never learn and change.
I agree 💯,% with Ken. Is anyone arguing with you? Let’s wait and see if he will not repeat those negative football tactics on Saturday you mentioned above
@Arsenal1886
And yet, we put out demands on Emery after how long? Now look where Emery is with a team costing much less and less talented on such a short time. Jus sayin
NY_Gunner
The fundamental difference between both Emery and Arteta, is that one had already tasted a good deal of success at Sevilla and had managed the egos at PSG. Arteta on the other hand had just started his pathway in management. They are just not like for like.
I am not disputing that he has done well at AV this season but he did well with us until the last knockings when we should have made top4 and didn’t. I will reserve judgement for at least another season on his ability to make them a strong contender, but his record in Spain especially speaks for itself.
@SueP
The fundamental differences between the two is, besides the obvious of Emery being a better overall manager and the lack of Kroenke support given to Emery as opposed to that given Arteta. Jus sayin…
NY_Gunner,
Emery with all his experience blew top 4. It was all but achieved. What was so good about his management to go down with barely a whimper in Baku? If as you say that he is a better manager than Arteta, then why did he fail when it was easier not to? Jus sayin… 🙂
SueP I am sorry but you can no longer protect Arteta under inexperienced shield. That argument no longer hold water. 3 seasons assistant manager and 5 seasons full manager I honestly don’t see how can he still be called inexperienced?
At what point should we consider him experienced then? 10 seasons? 20 seasons?
Speaking of failing when it was easier not to, has there ever been a bigger failure than how Arteta bottled last season?
And I find it very unfair people still calling out Emery when it was the players who lost games deliberately to get him fired.
I find it very unjust to an honest, talented and good man.
HH
You have to then ask yourself why they lost the games deliberately – if that is what you believe they did. I was in no way criticising his personality or his credentials as a human being either, but I don’t think he worked at Arsenal
Regarding experience and inexperience, I can’t count his time as an assistant manager the same as running the whole show. He carried out what Pep asked him to do, and now he is the one telling his coaches what he wants. His level of experience is still nothing like that of Emery, who has been managing for 20 years
and I honestly think that I am not giving Arteta a massive freebie.
I absolutely do believe he was a lucky guy to get the job when other experienced managers were out there and overall I think he has done well. My opinion anyway, HH. Cheers!
Mr HH’s views here are questionable and perhaps even slanderous. It is inappropriate to suggest players set out to lose games deliberately unless you have evidence to support this view.
The facts of course were that we got beaten badly in the EL final and did not make the top 4. Emery was certainly hamstrung by the quality of the squad and many including myself felt that he was (and remains) a vey good manager.
However, whether he is better than Arteta is debatable when you consider the contexts in which he has been successful to date. It is also important to take into consideration the circumstances when Arteta took the job at Arsenal. Many of the then high profile managers refused to be linked with the job and many could see that there were a lot of issues to be addressed given Arsenal’s desire to be amongst the elite team’s in Europe.
The rebuilding job at Arsenal has been massive and conveniently, and often disappointingly, underestimated or even disparaged by many fans wanting to take a pop at Arteta for whatever reason.
The squad inherited by Emery and then rejigged the following season was never going to be able challenge for a championship with the likes of Liverpool and MC about. The squad needed overhauling and we have no real evidence that Emery would have been able to do it. Emery has usually been able to get the best out of relatively limited resources. Although he did pretty well at PSG the disparity in resources between that club and the rest in France makes it difficult to assess his impact properly.
Although this season has been a drop off from the last Arsenal are still amongst the best teams in the PL and capable of thrilling performances. A lot of this is down to how the manager has built the squad and sets up his team on match days.
David, just remember that Villerreal under Unai Emery, with a squad assembled at much lower cost, defeated Arsenal under Arteta on his way to winning his fourth Europa League title.
In addition only Blanc has a better record than Emery for trophies and games won at PSG, so fair to say he did “pretty well” at PSG.
Correct David. I think there’s a common grounds between Arteta foot soldiers and Artetaout on JA. Those common grounds include sideways and back ways passes, not being flexible in his tactics, lack of rotation amongst players and late substitutions. Let him go and work on those negative football tactics before he can be compared to a more experienced coaches.
Arteta won the FA with Arsenal defeating MC on the way, Guardiola and all. Few would argue that Arteta is better than Guardiola or that that Arsenal team was better than MC.
Emery’s Sevilla defeated Klopp’s Liverpool. Yet many would still have rated Klopp ahead of Emery.
Emery is a very good manager in his own right. Most would agree with this.
Arteta is also very good even if he has not yet got the medals to match the likes of Emery. He has been central to a complicated rebuild which has actually quite impressive.
In my view, far too many are looking for reasons to belittle Arteta.
Isn’t that what we called lack of dressing room management if what you’re claiming is true which I doubt. The same thing was reported during his time at psg….. U just won over by form which…
Using experience to justify a different treatment doesn’t really hold water because If we hired a person with zero experience, not even as an assistant or in any capacity of coaching, are we supposed to then give that person twice or thrice the time more than MA? There is a required standard we expect from a manager. Just because we went for someone with less experience doesn’t mean we should accept a lower standard.
If UE missing out of top 4 for and losing at Baku was “easier not to”, then what do you say about MA turning a 5 point lead with 9 games to go into an 8 point deficit with 1 game to go? Isn’t that also “easier not to”?
Moreover about Baku, MA had a few seasons of Europa but never made it to the final, yet going to “go down with barely a whimper in Baku” seems worse to you than not making the final at all?
SueP, we all know what happened to Unai Emery. Emery was appointed as coach only, without the greater control given to a “manager”, particularly regarding say in player transfers in and out. He tried to discipline recalcitrant players, but was not supported by the Board. The performance in the Europa League final against Chelsea was a demonstration of player power at its worst. Emery couldn’t take the field in Baku and play for his disgraceful players.
When Mikel Arteta was appointed the Board apparently saw the errors of its ways, made Arteta manager, allowed him the power to dispense with these disruptive players, in some cases at considerable financial loss and a transfer budget of £700 million thus far to build the team he wants. Wenger (in his latter seasons) or Emery never received £200 million per season.
As for the FA Cup win, how many rounds was Emery in charge, before Arteta took over for the run home?
I realise that my view of Emery’s time at Arsenal and yours is invariably different, ozziegunner although I always point out that his record was pretty damn good before he came to us
It still remains that the fall off in the league after such a good campaign deeply surprised and shocked me. Why would players deliberately not want to bounce back into the CL? There was another chance by winning the Europa League but they clearly didn’t respect him Why do you think that was?
There were bad apples in the camp , I agree but why did they react like that?
so let’s not make the same mistake twice – jus sayin
AFTER 7 SEVEN YEARS OUT?
I count 6. Wenger 2, Emery 1 and Arteta 3!
Arteta is very much a part of that out of champions league. More times than his predecessors.
It’s this giving made up credit and praises that I don’t agree with.
Wenger got us out of the Champions League
Emery kept us out of the Champions League
Arteta go us back in to the Champions League for the first time since the 2016/17 season
I for one value being back in the Champions League and like or not (or just straight deny it!) Arteta got us there
astonishing
Arteta took us out of Europe period , our worst league position in two decades twice……spending over 650 million and yet has never done what Mr Wenger did
Arsenal1886, Emery also cost Arsenal a chance to win the Europa League by defeating Arteta on his way to winning the trophy with little Villerreal.
Arsenal 1886, it is criminal for you to compare AW with MA. Arteta won just an FA cup and community shield after almost 5 yrs with a large budget while the Prof. hit the grounds running winning PL, FA cups and Community Shield and transforming the entire English league with his amazing football tactics. All these with a lean budget. Please, be properly guided.
Arsenal 1886, by not acknowledging that it took MA four seasons to get back into the CL, when he stated he would win it in three, shows a lack of sincerity in your thinking.
Plus the fact already mentioned that he took us out of Europe for the first time in over two decades.
Great to see he has now got us back on track of course.
Good article VUYO, and I go along with most of it. We are mich improved sincde thr dreary and drifting last years of Wenger .
However, I am bound to say that I agree with KEN,in his reply to Arsenal 1886 – nothing to do with your excellent piece though – that our exciting football of last season has become dreary, predictable, stale and FAR TOO SLOW in tempo, esp in moving the ball forwards.
We URGENTLY NEED a massive increase in ball moving pace and IN PARTICULAR moving it forwards far more often and less sideways possession, simply for the sake of keeping possession.
At times, it tales SO long for our defenders and midfielders to move the ball into an attacking third of the field, that you could even fit SEVERAL Ben White throw ins into the same time period. And HE must surely be the slowest to take a throw I have ever seen at our club.
But an excellent article and full of true context. And none of my criticism of Arsenal 1886’s otherwise also fine post, applies to you in any way, VUYO.
I am not easily pleased, I assure you, esp by hype and plainly untrue analysis, so coming from me VUYO, that is a huge compliment, well deserved too!
Ken and Jon, the change in Arsenal’s style of play from last season to this, is obvious to see. The build up from defence through midfield to attack has been slower with less fluidity in passing. Scoring opportunities have been squandered game after game. Saka and Martinelli have been double marked and, in particular, Saka has been kicked off the park. The goals scored last season by Martinelli and Odegaard have dried up.
What is difficult to understand is given that Saka and Martinelli are double marked, why haven’t Arsenal been able to take advantage of the space created and the shortage of defenders? Nketiah in particular appears to lack the football nouse to run into space or down passing lanes to take advantage.
Exactly OG, I’ve watched Saka surrounded by three opponents, yet we still can’t put the ball in the net!
Nketiah is not the answer and, just as AW was negligent in not replacing PV, so must MA be called out for not addressing the equally obvious mistake of not bringing in a proven goalscorer.
The slowness you mention, comes from Raya trying to play out from the back (obviously following instructions) and our opponents just wait on the halfway line, hence the sideways and backward play.
I suppose we can give him up till phase 10 and let him spend a billion or two. It’s only a matter of time and money before he strikes gold
I will never give credit for as long as I am alive to any coach who spend his way to the top for improving any particular club without earning it in a shoestring budget first. However how big their name is.
What Xabi Alonso and Unay Emery are doing at their present clubs can be credited only to them while Arteta so called improvement should be credited to Kroenke opening his wallet.
Were we to part ways with Arteta (highly recommended if we don’t win a trophy) we should try everything possible to get either of those two fine and talented managers to Arsenal.
We should not forgive that Arteta looks more intelligent than he actually is only because he is the manager of Arsenal. Were he a manager of a smaller club such as Aston Villa or Bayer Leverkusen with the same players Unay and Alonso have, they would be battling relegation right now.
*we should not forget*
100% agree
@HH
RealTalk 👍🏾
We already had one of the coaches you mentioned are you suggesting we go back to him again. And, I expect you to understand the difference between managing top teams and average teams before you got carried away by their form… Potter did very well at Leicester, Nuno did very well at wolves and, even, emery did so well at Sevilla but look at his record at big teams (psg and arsenal) am not saying they’re not good but their present performance is not a guarantee factor for success in big teams…
Yes! Go back for him and right the wrong we did him by giving him proper support we denied him last time!
He already has a trophy
I’m assuming you are referring to the FA Cup with Emery’s team that he basically labelled as all rubbish and flogged them as soon as possible? But then was very happy to take the credit?
Like he said, he wanted to build his own team and that certainly wasn’t it.
But emery didn’t won anything with them. Did he?
@Twig. He “won” the FA cup with UE’s team, a team he didn’t deem good enough, he’s since won nothing with his own team.
I think if this season doesn’t go well, then De Zerbi would be a realistic option that I would like to see, and if Deschamps stays on as the France manager, then my unrealistic choice would be Zidane.
When talking about Arteta’s spending, his critics conveniently forget two key points:
1 – When MA took over, Arsenal were a million miles off the likes of Liverpool and City, and a club in regression. So large investment was needed just to try and bridge that gulf in quality.
2 – Whilst MA was spending, remember that Klopp and Pep, and everyone else were also spending. So Liverpool and City, clubs lightyears ahead of Arsenal in quality, were continuing to strengthen their already strong positions. So MA has done well to bridge that gap, and only improve year on year in full seasons.
Last season was a one off. We are on course for the 5th spot, 8-8-5-2-5 as per current trend my friend. When Wenger was there we were 5/6th, kindly explain how have we bridged the gap if you remove last season wonder?
Facts IG, you can’t beat them!!
Don’t forget as well, in UE’S last full season, we finished 5th and got to a European final.
Ken 1945,
I have much agreed with your comments lately, but to suggest that finishing 5th and a European final is somehow a worthwhile improvement on the season before, is contrary to my view. We were on course for returning to the top4 and and blew it with an experienced manager on board, and then fell apart in Baku as well.
SueP, I was following the discussion that we had improved every (full) season under MA.
We haven’t and, to take it a step further, UE improved on AW’s last season as well.
I do agree we, once again, blew it, but that wasn’t the point.
fair dinkum
You have no evidence last season was a one off. In fact, the opposite. In full seasons, we have only improved every year. We’ve only trended upwards under MA. So we have bridged that gap. Also, look at MA record against the top 6. Improvement there in results and performances.
After the double in 98, we didn’t win a major trophy under Wenger for 4 more years. Should he have been sacked during that period?
Wrong again!!
Wenger last full season 6th
Emery’s last full season 5th
Arteta’s first full season 8th
Arteta’s 2nd full season 5th
Still waiting for the link by the way.
You’ve confused yourself, and not for the first time. I’ll simplify my words for you. Each full season under MA we have improved on the previous season.
And your comparisons to Emery and Wenger conveniently do not mention the mess MA inherited, and the fact he decided to rip everything up and start again.
If you had any life experience, you’d understand that when you rip everything up and start again, like renovating a house for example, it starts – 2 steps back, one step forward.
Now your changing what you originally stated : Here it is :
“In full seasons we have only improved every year.”
Now your saying :
“Each full season UNDER MA we have improved on the previous season.”
Your original statement was NOT correct as I pointed out – if you NOW want to rephrase it and correct yourself, by saying you are “simplifying” your original quote that’s fine.
Ah!! The mess MA inherited….. strangely enough, the mess he inherited has won him his only major trophy and since then, with every player now his and over £7 million spent and the mess cleared away, we have won… wait for it…. ZILCH!!
In fact, fans are now calling for MA’s deadwood to be got rid of!!
My life experience?
As you have no idea what my life experience is, I wonder where your coming from, but, using your example, if you decide to renovate a house, you plan it so that you DON’T take two steps backwards for every step forward – mind you, that could be a way of describing what MA’s been doing THIS season.
Now, about that link that you had…???
£700,000,000 plus spent – that was a Freudian slip 💷😂😂
You keep saying MA got rid of his best players, because they are the ones that won him an FA Cup.
Again, you’re showing zero knowledge about football and Arsenal. Everyone knows, just because you win a cup, it doesn’t mean you have a good enough team to challenge for the league.
Secondly, do you honestly think we could have done what we did last season with the likes of Ozil, Kolasnic, Laca, Mustafi, etc? Because under better and more experienced managers like Emery and Wenger, those same players were trash in the league.
Facts are facts!
Facts are facts – so show me where I have said that MA has got rid of his best players?
Just one example will do!!
What I’ve said is that the players he got rid of, won him his only trophy to date – four years later and after spending over £700,000,000 on, one assumes, better players, we are still awaiting another trophy.
So the players that were “trash” saw that the club never fell below 6th, had European football for two decades, won three fa cups and, of course, we finished 2nd with the players you mentioned as well.
I still await this website that you said you had, but you seem very reluctant to share it with anyone else – why is that?
Does it exist, or is it just another of you phantom “facts” that you can NEVER substantiate?
I’m still waiting for the Havertz link. 4th time I’ve asked I think.
The evidence is that you keep saying Arteta had good enough players in because they won him his only trophy, and the spending, and you keep using those points as a stick to beat him with.
My point is that almost 100% of those players were not good enough to take us forward, so huge investment was needed, and the reason that the net spend isn’t great, is because he inherited a squad of aging, over paid duds that we could barely give away, let alone get a transfer fee for.
I love facts!
Further more evidence that MA was correct in gutting the squad – how many of the players he got rid of went on to bigger and better things?
I remember so many complaining when Guendouzi left, and he’s done absolutely nothing since leaving.
Jen, to criticise the “life experiences” of someone of an age and seniority as ken1945, whom you do not even know, is crass and impudent.
@IG
I also thought we had bridged the gap but after reading your post I realize it was an imaginary gap! Lol!
Your prayer is we finish 5th.. Wow!!! Just how desperate are you to get arteta out or are you not an arsenal fan
Well spending is ok but he is spending it recklessly. Destroying too much wealth buy buying flops and average players expensively Examples:
Havertz, Viera, White, Zinzenko, Gabriel J, Cedric.
Look at Liverpool they were in transition last year. But by smart purchase and using academy they are leading EPL and competing for other cups also.
But Arteta just gives excuses about lack of players. Almost 5 years, and used so much fund still the excuses is laughable.
GBH, my issue with the player transfers is that I can’t see an overall strategy in filling positions and profiles of players Arteta looks for.
Well, in my opinion we will not win anything under this manager as there are too many players who are just mediocre who need to be replaced. Call it phase5,phase6………phase 10, will have to wait till the owners decide. I hope it is as early as this summer.
Raya out, a capable no2 GK; Zinny out/LB back up (say Timber is ready for next season), Kiwor out CB backup, TP, Elneny, Jorginho out, CDM + backup, Kai out (leave the AM left to Rice/ESR), Viera out, AM right back up, Gab J & Eddie out , CF + back up; Nelson out ,Saka back up. 9-10 players required if we are to land the EPL and/or UCL and World Club Championship, let alone The FA and league cup which we struggle to make it to the quarters. Another 4-500M required, so we are not winning anything. As a realist, i accept my fate as a fan that we will not win anything as we have a checque book manager, we need a real manager who can get the best out the existing by playing to their strengths, but sadly it wont happen. Tikki takka or whatever rubbish you call it, is here to stay. Owners do not care, board does not care, coaching staff and player do not care, so why should I?
Wow nobody cares at all that’s obvious. Very well spotted by Mr Positive. Thankyou. That clears everything up then…..
BEST EFFECTIVELY USED SARCASM FOR YEARS!
Well said PAT.
You will be aware that many on here believe IG formerly used another name, of someone who was then banned.
True or false then? As many of us have suspicions that IG used to use four initials for his profile? IMO.
He writes more like a troll does though.
This Indian gunner guy is funny and naive
He actually said in a previous post that Mount is a better player than Odegaard! That says everything you need to know about his knowledge of the game.
In 2018
The greatest manager in our history forced out due to only finishing top 4
6 years later , all that money spent , we have been in top 4 once
Dan, he finished 6th but I agree with everything else, as the are the facts.
My point was Ken that there were fans unhappy that we ‘only ‘ finished 4th
Yet we have only done that once since he left
Yes Dan, I know what you meant, but with some people on JA saying facts are facts when they’re not, I thought I’d quickly make the point – still waiting for the link regarding AW having one of the highest paid squads in Europe, when we were playing in the CL year after year, just so you get my drift.
Depends what your ambitions are though. If it’s to never ever being competitive in the league and Europe again, then we should have stuck with Wenger.
I think that’s why every Arsenal fan got so involved and enjoyed last season, because that was the first competitive team we’ve seen in the league since 2004. For our very young fans, that would have been the first ever time they had seen an Arsenal team push for a league title.
Fantastic MA gave them something new to experience.
Well, MA hasn’t been competitive in europe has he?
He actually became the first manager in over two decades to take us OUT of Europe!!
Depends how young the fans were, because finishing 8th 8th and 5th wasn’t challenging for the title was it?
MA certainly gave them something to experience – leading the table for over 200 days, eight points ahead with a few games to play and we bottled it!!
I guess there were a few tears from our younger fans, but let’s hope THAT experience will strengthen them for the future.
Now about that link…?
MA so far has been poor in Europe, not Wenger level poor, but he’s getting there unfortunately.
But his first time in the CL, and it’s going well so far, so we’ll wait to see how that pans out. Porto in the last 16 are obviously the big favourites, but hopefully we can pull off a shock.
“Porto in the last 16 are obviously big favourites “(atleast you did not say Sporting )
So a team from Portugal are “Big favourites “against a premier league team ?
Ridiculous,and that’s saying something coming from you Jen reading your posts over the last few weeks .
Your posts Reminds me of an old poster called Thirdman ,oh wait 😂
What’s your view on covid ?
Oh shiteee ,I’m allowed back in the JA circle without being moderated (cheers pat 👍)
I promise to take it easy on Jen ,AKA Thirdman ,Jimbo .
Welcome back HH!
Yet another person who doesn’t know their footballing knowledge and Arsenal history.
Who’s the bigger team in Europe? Porto! They have won 2 European cups and 2 UEFA Cups.
Secondly, Arsenal are terrible in the CL and have a consistent record of being humiliated in the last 16.
Thirdly, MA has not performed well in Europe.
More questions delt with with ease!
TMJW made that claim about being humiliated in the last 16 Jen and I proved that wrong as well – if Pat has the article, perhaps he’ll reproduce it?
Yet another example of a complete over the TOP remark, but let’s see if you can prove it with FACTS Jen – perhaps they will be on that elusive Web site you can’t produce, but let’s see… over to you.
Go check out the results and performances in the last 16 ken. This is why I love facts – it’s all there documented for all to see.
I think it was 7 last 16 losses in a row under Wenger.
Don’t worry Jen, I know my history and you used the word humiliation – so give the examples.
I suggest, for your convenience and in order that you don’t make up yet another fictitious site, you refer to the official Arsenal handbook for the 17/18 season.
There, I’ve made it easy for you, so I look forward to seeing all the humiliations we had when we qualified for the last 16 of the CL.. like taking candy from a baby once again.
Getting battered anytime we faced a top team in Europe. Is that not humiliation?
5-1 losses three times in row to Bayern
. So 15 conceded in just three games, in a row to the same team. If that isn’t humiliation I honestly don’t know what is.
And all those excuses for Wenger. “Oh we always get a tough draw”, well what happened when we were given one the easiest opponents in the last 16? Yep, we still lost again. Even Monaco were too tough an opponent for Wenger.
You see, you really don’t know the facts.
Quote :Getting battered every time we faced a top team in europe.
We beat Real Madrid away, first English team to ever do that.
We lost 2-1 in the final to Barca with ten men….I could go on, mentioning Juventus, Roma, Milan but I’m getting bored!!
And no he didn’t bottle it because not a single person within the footballing fraternity thought Arsenal would finish 2nd and challenge for a league title last season. In fact, most pundits, journalists and even some Arsenal fans thought we may struggle to even get top 4.
So MA proved what a top manager he is by proving EVERYONE wrong, AND with the youngest squad AND with a ton of injuries, against one of the greatest teams in English football history. Imagine if Saliba and Tomi weren’t injured for the final third of the season, because it was out defence that cost us in the end.
But if almost winning a title didn’t impress you, what are your thoughts on Wenger not even getting close to a league title for 14 straight years?
Disappointed and frustrated, just as I feel regarding MA after nearly five seasons, but I keep on supporting him and hope he manages top four and FA cup wins, until then he can’t be described as a top manager because he didn’t WIN the PL…… now where’s that link you said you had and that promised would reveal the facts about Wenger’s squad?
You can’t keep making such claims if you haven’t actually got the proof…. it’s commonly known in the political arena as a untruth.
But if almost winning a title didn’t impress you, what are your thoughts on Wenger not even getting close to a league title for 14 straight years
Actually I asked you to provide the link of Havertz wages which you said you have evidence of, yet no link? Where is it Ken?
Go to transfer market or any other reputable football site that gives reported players contracts / salaries – it’s really easy to do,as I proved when listing the top ten clubs in Europe with the highest wage bills in 2020.
Are YOU SURE you know how to use the Internet?
Look, to help you out even further, jut type into Google “Premier League Players salaries” and choose from the many sites – any further help you might need please ask.
Now, how about helping ME find this notoriously difficult site that you seem to base all your FACTS on – give me a clue!!
Keep up Jen, you’ve asked me the Wenger question above and, as usual, I’ve answered your question – do you actually take the time to read people’s answers?
Sorry I actually missed your answer, I’m so used to you refusing to answer questions or putting your spin on it.
You might want to check out our wage bill when Wenger was in charge, and his own insane salary!
But you said you HAD the site that gave Wenger’s players salaries, why not just tell me?
I agree that Arsene’s salary in his last contract was obscene and not deserved at a reported £8-9 million, even with all the trophies and The Invincible team he alone created.
Would you say that Mikel’s reported £8 million is also obscene, considering he’s not won anything using the players he bought for over £7 million?
Whenever I read articles like this the bit that’s left out is just who will replace the manager getting fired. There’s this lazy assumption there are dozens of brilliant managers out there desperate to manage the club. They never seem to have names. Spurs fans, after Mourinho and Conte, can tell you its not that easy. Personally I might be less focused on the manager and more on the scouting system. Liverpool had no midfield last season, they went out in the summer and bought a new one. Spurs have signed a whole string of bargains in the past couple of seasons (ie Udogie £15m, Sarr £15m, Vicario £17.5m). By comparison Arsenal’s transfer activity seems hit and miss. Maybe Arteta just needs a better scouting network.
@Jod
Exactly. It’s sayin something when a team like Brighton has a better scouting system than ours. Jus sayin
Brilliant ?
Just need someone better
It seems to me that when it comes to the run in Arteta cannot pass the sense of stability that real winning teams need. He passes on something that seems to make the players crumble at the business end of things.
With Spurs there are no expectations….wishes yes, but no expectations. With Arsenal there are expectations. “The Invincibles”. We are a BIG club. Like Real, Barca, Bayern and PSG, we are expected to be at that level….and nobody will rest until we are back at that level. Here at Arsenal…Arteta has to succeed…HAS to. One more season to do it. We were an inch away last season and then……wait for it…….Arteta bought Havertz. Could have bought James Ward Prowse and James Maddison for the same money. Could have bought a ‘Baller’, yet he bought Havertz. That tells us something about Arteta.
All these because we had a blip after Christmas! I didn’t “hear” all these when we were top of the PL table at Christmas and qualified for the CL knock-out stages top of our group!
We need to calm it down a wee bit. The talk of parting ways and all that at this stage could be counter-productive. Let’s support the team and the manager till the end of the season.
With some crucial players potentially coming back from injury, we could see a better second half of the season.
I did lol
And was called lots of names for it
Won’t win title under this manager and Newcastle game was moment I was like ….wow he’s out of his depth
The vibe I get with Arsenal these days is we’re a club that’s stopped winning trophies and just look for a top 4 place every year, under Wenger we nicked a few FA cups during his Emirates years and the one season under Emery we got hammered by Chelsea in the Europa league final, I don’t see Arteta bucking that trend, I still can’t get over the fact his Arsenal side somehow managed to bottle the league when we were miles ahead of City, I think ultimately he should have gone at the end of that season.
Dave… these days
we have been tagged with that for the past decade or so
soft under belly when we went north on a midweek game against lesser teams, where we should have picked up the points
cant stand up to the bigger teams in big games
we haven’t been close to winning the league for the best part of 15 years…
so when it comes to these days then that goes back a long way
In my opinion we as football fans have short term memories
We all live for the wins and when we don’t we question the whys
Spending money is part and parcel of the modern day make up of top football now.
Weather you believe UE was hindered in not being given the funds to make us great again is debatable
I believe UE is a very good manager as per his proven track record but at the time when he was appointed I don’t think he was a good fit for us and he weren’t a good fit for him at the time
AW, one of our greatest manager of all times was done many seasons back and instead of sacking him which was shambolic, on how they handled the situation he should have been retained and moved upstairs
Silent stan and josh have been great for us in the past 4 or 5 seasons and supported our club with the financial backing we craved for but we forget that prior to that they were pants
Until that time comes which is enviable in every managers career I will be supporting MA as he is the manager of our beloved club
And when they do chop him it will be the king is dead long live the king or queen should we go down that road
Onwards and upwards
When push comes to shove, there are 2 standout managers in the Premier league.
In Pep, not only is he the best, but he also manages one of the best funded (over a number of years) clubs in the world. Financial fair play didn’t seem to exist back then.
Klopp, another skillful manager with bags of experience took a while to build Liverpool up again.
Chelsea under Abramovitch hired the best available and then replaced them the minute they looked ever so slightly vulnerable with another elite manager. He also bought in some of the very best players that money could buy
Man Utd have suffered terribly since SAF retired. Money has been spent, managers were signed but the ownership model has been disastrous.
We trundled along with top 4 being a worthwhile prize with FA Cups thrown in, until AW faltered after an incredible run at the helm.
I’m sounding like an old recording. Who would have come to Arsenal post Emery? Ancelotti took the Everton job and jumped ship pretty quickly. The usual round of British managers got put in the frame to take Arsenal forward, but Potter couldn’t do it for Chelsea and Rodgers took Leicester down. These were names that were bandied around at the time. Ten Hag was one of the European suggestions who has also discovered that managing an elite club that has had a difficult time isn’t easy either.
What I do believe is that you have to be careful what you wish for and it is far too soon to be considering jumping on the change the manager bandwagon. If all those that are so critical so much of the time have the answer to who comes next after Arteta and when, then I am all ears.
@SueP
Very well put…👏🏾
nicely said
Vuyo, I agree with most of what you say, but, looking back at the 20yrs, mostly under Wenger you’ll realise the legitimate reasons for restraint and tolerance on the part of Gunners fans. Working on a shoe string budget, with a coach who doubled as both finance manager & recruitment cum player profile expert, we still made top 4 finish a given. That loyal “understanding” waned eventually, when we started sliding down the rankings and the inimitable Mr Wenger was out. Arteta ranks amongst the top 4 most funded coaches, and that’s from his first day in office. It makes it hard for most of us to understand, given his ruthless intolerance of “mediocrity” and ill discipline, however talented a player is, why he turns around and sentimentally splashes huge amounts on retirees and mediocre players. It really boggles the mind. He’s a young coach, yet he shows absolutely no inclination to promoting young talent, is very rigid in his views, struggles with the concept of balanced rotation of players, is prone to overthinking, complicating and dismantling even the most basic of team structures in an attempt to outsmart opposition. He wrongly implements everything that he should rightfully confine to his intellect as theory. Pros are outdone by cons in this scenario.
The problem I have with him is his arrogance and his refusal to learn and change. He is not dynamic in his tactics. Let his foot soldiers advice him to work on those area and he will be great as a manager.