My fellow Gooners and football JustArsenal “addicts”, as many of you will know, just yesterday a verbal dispute broke out on the issue of VAR. by Jon fox
It is an issue that I have long wished was not an issue and that it had not happened at all, UNTIL the proper technology was in place to eliminate human error. By that I mean artificial intelligence or AI which has made enormous strides in recent years and which already plays a far more significant part in all our daily lives than some willimagine. It is up and running and is not far from being ready to use on VAR, subject to there being a will to use it, to eliminate the certain human errors that we all make.
To imagine that VAR officials are somehow less immune to error, as shown so graphically in the Arsenal game last Saturday, is to fool ourselves. All humans come with design faults; it is the natural condition of our species. All of us, refs and VAR officials included and, guess what, even players, managers and owners. Oh, and fans too. That is simply facing facts my friends, and to expect perfection in humans, fine people though almost all of us are, is just not realistic.
I have long been saddened at how refs, almost alone, are singled out for such vitriolic personal abuse and routinely called cheats, by fans almost everywhere.
My personal view is almost an opposite one. I think that in general, refs do an almost impossible job to the best of their ability, but where I join in with others is in saying that ability is very frequently NOT good enough.
I think it abhorrent to blithely and without any proof, to label another human being as a cheat. That is a serious and foolish allegation and though many highly bright and wise Gooners on JA think many refs are cheats, I do not. I think MOST are not up to standard but NOT cheats.
In my view a good many players ARE certainly cheats and, very often so are managers when discussing the game that has just ended. They are all highly – I would call it “obscenely” highly paid – while refs are paid a decent but fairly normal salary, in line with society’s norm. and many are far more in touch with the reality of life as a financial consequence, than are super rich players.
My purpose in giving this background is to illustrate how unfair football is and how unfair many of we fans often are, myself included.
Weekly, we are asking the impossible and expecting humans, ie refs to get decisions 100% right. That is not how humanity works, by our very nature. Every one of us is human and makes mistakes and to deny that is to be dishonest, something I much dislike.
So, when VAR was introduced the many people in charge, who really ought to have known how human nature works, disregarded it entirely, and went ahead with a VAR where humans were and are in charge.
Wiser minds would have known from the outset that mistakes were certain, since humans ran things. As the weekend just ended has graphically shown us all.
Today on Talksport our own Martin Keown was saying that “perhaps VAR should be suspended right now until they get things right”. He was shouted down by the others on that programme unsurprisingly, and it was pointed out that you cannot suspend VAR mid-season. I agree with just that last line, NOT mid-season!
The point is that as used right now and ever since it came in, VAR has been a huge annoyance to the fans, in particular those fans who regularly attend games.
FANS are not merely impotent, although also important spectators, or should I say we ought not to be impotent. We deserve and must have a critical say in how things are run.
FANS ARE THE HEART, SOUL AND LIFE BLOOD OF OUR BELOVED SPORT AND WITHOUT US IT WOULD BLEED TO FINANCIAL DEATH IN NO TIME AT ALL. That needs to be said loud and clear, and it is we fans, each and every single one of us, that I will always stand for and fight for on our behalf. As most of us also do at times when we band together to fight the common enemy, the non-caring owners who want to make themselves even filthier rich at our expense, We are, to them, just helpless pawns in their game of who is richest of all wins. UGH!
We fans brought down the evil idea of the proposed European Super League farce that was brought in without us being consulted, and collectively we brought it down in hours. Not even days nor weeks, but HOURS!!! IMAGINE HOW MUCH WE CAN ACHIEVE IF ONLY WE HAVE THE COURAGE TO STAND AND FIGHT FOR WHAT WE WANT.
My personal objections to VAR, in simple terms, are these: Firstly, it spoils and often ruins the all-important high spot in any game, a goal celebration. For ever, until VAR reared its ugly head, we fans could cheer a goal to our hearts content once the match ref has awarded a goal. It was never chalked off, often several minutes later, thus destroying our vitally important excitement.
And excitement, passion and cheering our heads off is why we go to football, why we follow it. In sexual terms it is the climax after making love. I do not apologise for using that analogy either, as it is true, profoundly true. And all fans know it is too!
Secondly, It takes far too long and often we who attend do not even know why the VAR is being used. No connection with the fans was thought important, UNTIL, a few months ago, when some bright spark realised that fans had a right to know what was happening in the game that we spent all week talking and thinking about and spent huge money on attending. Football is not like cricket and tennis which have natural breaks after each ball or point. It is pacy and thrilling and that pace and flow of the game is of vital importance.
We poor mugs were finally given a bland phrase on the screen telling us what the stoppage was for. Big deal! How generous of those in charge to give us such consideration. After all, we only pay ALL their huge wages, albeit indirectly. Tongue in cheek praise for those in charge then? You bet your life it’s tongue in cheek.
Thirdly, I may be old fashioned but I firmly believe in having ONE FINAL DECISION MAKER IN TOTAL CHARGE. I reject as nonsense the idea that another, human and therefore equally imperfect, ref should be in charge of a video that directs the pitch ref to halt the game and await instructions along with players and fans, until, finally the video ref tells or does not tell the actual ref, to go to watch the pitch side screen for a second look. In theory, we are told the pitch ref can tell the video ref to go and boil his head and that he will not be going to take a second look.
But in practise, which is what matters, that does not happen. Never! In practise again, once the actual ref goes to take a second look, and whether or not he truly agrees with the VAR ref, he changes his decision to agree with the VAR ref. YES THERE HAVE BEEN A MERE HANDFUL OF REFS WHO HAVING HAD A SECOND LOOK WILL STAY WITH THEIR OWN ORIGINAL DECISION.
In reality, refs are afraid of offending the ref in charge of all refs; until recently it was the woeful Mike Riley and he had charge over all refs, despite being one of the very worst refs ever when he used to have the whistle. Now Howard Webb is in charge and this week (Tuesday) has called a meeting to bang together the heads of incompetent VAR officials. This morning it was announced by Webb, that John Brook who VAR’d the Palace v Brighton game and made another huge VAR mistake and who was due to run VAR in Mondays Merseyside derby and our game against City, is now dropped. Lee Mason who cost us two points will probably be dropped tomorrow, Tuesday, it is predicted.
But remember, all refs are human and will therefore always make mistakes . It is naive to say “how can that happen, given that they have endless replays to see the true outcome”. Yes they do, but still they make mistakes, and humans always will make mistakes. We all need to accept that unpleasant fact and IMO, allow for it to happen. Only a foolish person sees something wrong happen year after year after year and yet still expects a different and perfect outcome, from HUMAN BEINGS. That aim is fools’ gold my friends.
What we should have done from the very outset, instead of dividing fans and making the game so wearily stop start and spoiling excitement, was to wait until AI was ready to take over and run VAR. Without a human as final decision maker we would actually be able to get correct and SPEEDY decisions, instead of the constant lengthy sick joke wrong calls made by VAR all along.
IF and only IF, we could use AI to get all VAR calls both correct and without delay, then and only then would I accept that VAR is to stay.
I want to say that the other point of view to keep VAR as it is, despite the overlong waits and wrong calls, is still liked by a great many fans. I suspect that fans who attend matches would be in a large majority alongside my view but that online fans and TV spectators who are less inconvenienced, would by a narrow majority vote to keep VAR as it is. It is the contention of the opposite side of this debate that, despite wrong calls, VAR gets more decisions right than was the case before it came in.
I say the price we are paying for that contention, even if true, which is itself debatable, is simply not worth paying.
I WOULD RECOMMEND A MASS FAN VOTE OF ALL FANS WHO EVER ATTEND Prem clubs’ games . I think those who attend should have primacy of decision over those, such as I, who no longer go along. I stress that it is fans who attend, not those who run the Prem league, nor FIFA, nor UEFA, who should have the right to choose. Democracy OUGHT TO BE PARAMOUNT.
Ad Pat has pledged to hold Gooner JA fan vote on this subject after the other point of view has been aired in a forthcoming article, as I know it will be.
I will be fascinated to read all the comments in reply and then to see how you who care , hopefully that is most of you, will vote.
Thank you so very much for reading to the end.
COYG
Jon Fox
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You never know. THe FA wants to perpetuate the dominance of the northern teams over southern team like Arsenal who are a threat.
Since Wenger’s time, the gunners have been penalised unfairly on the pitch ie the 50 th game . Reyes was repeated kicked and and few stone wall penalties were denied ,you guessed it, MR
So the var incident is part of the conspiracy
Good read Jon.
I take your point that it’s the match going fans who are most likely to be anti, and something should be done to make VAR more acceptable to them.
I’ve not been to a live game since even goal line tech was introduced, so couldn’t say how I’d react to the long silent stoppages while incompetents make decisions that could result in the relegation of teams and dismissal of managers.
It’s difficult to understand why VAR works so flawlessly in rugby, but is often farcical in football, so perhaps the suggestion of AI has some worth.
I’ve unintentionally linked my comment to Jons excellent article to Malaysian gunner’s post.
Sorry ’bout that😊
Hi Jax,
In rugby we (as TV fans) can hear the full conversation between the pitch ref and the VAR ref. The decision is taken by both of them why everyone in the stadium and on TV can see the replays at the same time so when the decision is taken it is rarely a surprise especially since we can follow the thought process of the officials. Introducing this approach in football would benefit the process immensely for several reasons:
– the waiting time would be less unbearable, quite the opposite actually, it would help build up the tension and the release when decision falls in our favor
– the despair, if decision goes against us, would be dampened by the fact that the approach taken is understandable and the outcome predictable
Later on pundits can discuss if the decision was correct or not based on what we saw during the replays and agree or not on how the officials got to that decision with a lot more information.
A win win in my book. I don’t understand why the deliberations have to be secret and why it’s up to the VAR ref to decide if an action is worth reviewing or not. If the pitch ref missed something he could be alerted by the VAR ref but alternatively the pitch ref should be able to tel the VAR ref that he’s not sure about one of his decisions and they should see the replays again… No brainer for me
It dont work like in rugby because how are they going to rig and maniplate results they way pgmol mafia wants,if dont think for a second that cannot happen in pl ,my answer will be qatar they official can be bought into awarding qatar the wc then anything goes mate anything
Agree, I’ve said that often.
If it helps, I read a while ago the reason they gave. Their view was that because football fans are so aggressive that they would:
1. Influence the ref’s decision by yelling etc.
2. Possibly harm the ref / linesmen.
If that isn’t an indictment of the state of football I don’t know what is! Setting the rules to pander to misbehaviour instead of dealing with it – very poor show.
We benefited a lot from VAR technology
But the VAR team led by Lee Mason failed to spot that Norgaard was offside before making the cross for Toney, and it later emerged no lines had even been drawn to check for a possible offside
So it was a human error which can be minimized by improving the technology. We’d probably have to replace most human officials with AI in the future
you are the worst of lap dogs on here gotanidea ,you STILL think it was human error ,yes it was but was deliberate or not ? Which one is it lap dog
I don’t think the technology is bad, but the procedures and implementation are.
They should look at other sports and leagues in the world and use the best practices to improve the process.
The failures this weekend were due to human incompetence and nothing else.
VAR came about because fans and clubs were sick of numerous refereeing errors and demanded better accuracy. Unfortunately, people who were furious without it are also often upset with it.
While VAR has been effective in reducing errors, it comes with the price of review delays. We simply can’t have both accuracy and speed, at least not for the time being. Having attended matches pre and post VAR, I have to say the waiting is indeed annoying and erodes the gratification, but at least it puts most controversies to bed, most of the time.
AI with all its merits is still some way from being able to outperform experts in terms of interpretation and judgment. Recent events have shown that AI can easily pass certain professional exams and get a decent grade, but top grades are still out of reach. When AI eventually takes over VAR in the near future, reviews will be much faster, but errors won’t be eliminated, especially for decisions that involve interpretation and judgment, like certain penalties and red cards.
Overall, I am still willing to accept VAR for better accuracy, even at the expense of quicker gratification
AI is more than capable of putting down the offside line when there is a review, how this is not automated is beyond my comprehension.
Actually we don’t even need AI to automate that, so yes I’m having a hard time comprehending that too
Yes Durand, it was total incompetence on Saturday. When looking at Offside, you would think the first thing the official operating VAR would do is draw the lines, but Mason wrongly thought he could do it without the lines.
Surprisingly the same referee made numerous mistakes on the pitch, and now is continuing his trend of mistakes in the VAR booth.
Perhaps hire better employees rather than recycling the incompetent ones.
So you would rather celebrate or rue an important goal only to later find out there was a ridiculously obvious offside missed by an incompetent referee.
Yes i like many others have celebrated a goal only to think hey maybe there’s an offside or foul there.
VAR is the best thing to happen in football as it helps thin out the ridiculous amount of errors of these incompetent referees. The only issues here is that there is usually another incompetent ref in charge of Var such as lee mason.
PGMOL should be disbanded and epl should recruit the best refs in the world until the standard of refereeing has considerablely improved. The whole system from epl to grass root level should be reviewed and improved. There have to be good refs out there just not getting the adequate facilities and support to rise to the top.
Should be a live tv link to the broadcasters, 4th Official and team Managers. Then anything missed can be flagged immediately to the referee. Or as you say an AI or at least a computer program that flags the user that they have incorrectly or not checked at all the correct lines. But I do think “live” full disclosure of VAR examination as it is happening to ensure that VAR are not incompetent or corrupt to bribery!
Yes, just as they do in rugby union. The discussion is always interesting (to me anyway).
The reason they gave for not doing that is that they feared that football fans are a different breed and they would intimidate and even threaten the ref.
It seems they addressed the wrong problem, in view of the articles about the incredible levels of abuse referees are suffering at all levels of the game (there’s another on that subject on the BBC Sport site today).
Solve that problem and put the VAR deliberations up on screen so that we can all see and hear them, like in other sports.
Football is a money making business, so everyone involved in it shouldn’t have any immunity to scrutiny. Period. Aubameyang might have personal problem affecting his performance for Arsenal but Arteta stayed sensible and justifiably got rid of the human error. Now, the results are clear. Human errors can be solved by meritocracy and with responsibility. Not by AI. I’m a computer programmer. AI is just an another programme that can be set and manipulated to benefit certain agenda, just like voting or vote counting system. Because AI has no moral compass and can be corrupted by the same group that decided Lee Mason will be unpunished. But then again, the whole modern society are run by people who don’t face consequences of their own action. What do you think?
Dealing with the 3 objections in order. These points have already been made to you, but they do not seem to penetrate:
1. “Firstly, it spoils and often ruins the all-important high spot in any game, a goal celebration.”
How important is the goal celebration thing compared to getting the right decisions/results? In my view: minute in comparison.
Also, you had the *same problem* before VAR – how often did you celebrate only to realise… the linesman has his flag up?
That’s exactly the same as a VAR official putting an (electronic) flag up. It has always been part of the game.
2. “It takes far too long and often we who attend do not even know why the VAR is being used”.
That’s entirely an implementation problem. As I have pointed out to you many times, other sports do it better. In rugby union for example the fans hear the officials’ deliberations and see the footage being reviewed and discussed on-screen.
As Ken’s article pointed out, for unknown reasons the PL version did not follow existing successful models, including those used by other football leagues.
3. “Having one final decision maker in total charge” (capitals removed).
But… there is one decision maker – the on-field referee always has the final say, just as he’s always done.
In the days of ref + 2 linesmen you’d see a ref overriding a flag going up. You’d sometimes see a consultation between ref and linesman… and a final decision by the ref. Just as you do today, except that now, the officials have replay tech available to help them.
The ref has never been in “total” charge as such, since tehre were always linesmen, except in the sense that the final decision is totally his, both pre-VAR and post-VAR.
If the ref doesn’t overrule often enough then that’s a training issue, just as it would be if he failed to overrule a linesman.
—-
Overall: 0/10
Good points
Jon’s piece is overly long and unfortunately lacks substance. An unfortunate departure from someone who usually provides more balanced viewpoints.
He is also trying to turn the discussion into an unnecessarily emotive and populist debate to try and get support for his own views.
Football is about passion and emotion but also requires balance, fairness and integrity. In order to achieve these football has to continue making improvements and engaging with new technologies.
David, unfortunately, I could not agree more.
IDKWIC as I expected and I even , albeit privately , predicted. You have your own legitimate view, that is a polar one from mine. But unnecessarily, you are extremely, obnoxiously, and highly personally rude in doing so and that says a great deal more about you than it ever can about my VAR views.
I include this comment made in todays Daily Mail from the hugely well known and widely respected football and sports journalist, Oliver Holt, who echoes my views, as follows;
HEADLINE. VAR causes more harm than good.
“I was among the misguided minority who was in favour of VAR.I thought technology would eliminate human error and subjectivity and eradicate obvious mistakes that could have a devastating effect on a team’s fortunes.
I was wrong. One of the many VAR errors that pockmarked last weekend might yet cost Arsenal the Premier League title.
Until the technology is advanced enough that it does not have to rely on humans interpretating it, it should be ditched. It is causing more harm than good”. OLIVER HOLT DAILY MAIL FEB 14.
Those are NOT MY words, though they are precisely my sentiments and what I have said. I truly wonder whether you would be quite so hostile and deliberately rude to such a respected journalist.
You could always write directly to the Daily Mail and say so. Perhaps you will!!
With all due respect to Mr Holt, I think he is somewhat mistaken about VAR technology.
VAR was never meant to eliminate human error but to reduce it. That is why the referee, a human, has the last say, regardless of what VAR picks up. If the human referee trumps VAR, then human error will always be present to some extent.
Subjectivity is also not something that can be eliminated from refereeing. Questions like how much contact is too much, is an elbow to the face or stepping on an opponent deliberate or accidental, what amounts to interference with play, etc, depend on individual judgment and always have an element of subjectivity.
Technology can advance but it may not be able to interpret and judge correctly all the time. It still has quite some way to go before technology can match humans in terms of interpretation and judgment.
VAR has certainly not caused more harm than good in terms of accuracy. In other more qualitative or subjective aspects perhaps, but definitely not in terms of accuracy. Take Toney’s goal for example, the referee and linesman did not rule out that goal before the VAR review. Despite the clear failure of VAR in this case, it did not make the referee’s decision worse by denying a correct decision, it merely failed to correct a wrong decision that would have been made, even without VAR
Why would I care what someone in the Daily Mail said? Should I believe that it must be right because you read it in the papers?
Where was I obnoxious? That’s your preserve matey.
And I notice that you didn’t address even one of the points I made. A weak attempt to play the man, not the ball.
And in the end, that’s all you’ve got, sleight of hand and skulduggery, there’s not a shred of logic on your side of this.
Thank you and you’re right, the article is overly long and lacks substance, attempting to play on emotion.
I found myself skipping over large sections to get to the word “Firstly” – after 16 paragraphs, from a quick count.
Ken’s piece was also fairly long but it was always on-point, factual and interesting. Only near the end did Ken express his conclusions / personal view (with which I strongly agree).
That was a reply @David above.
You decry “emotion” while ignoring that it is EMOTION that is the prime reason why footbal lis so globally popular.
I am right to use emotion as a key argument in my views. HUMANS HAVE EMOTIONS. RULES, TECHNOLOGY AND LAWS DO NOT Emotion is powerful and relevant and those who decry it show a lack of human understanding.
Football is played byemotional humans, for other humans to watch, enjoy ,discuss and be emotional about .
I understand that and stress its importance. WHY DO YOU NOT DO SO?
Who says it’s the prime reason? Another assertion plucked out of the air and stated as fact.
Who says those who get emotional need to do so right away, ignoring matter like getting the right decsions?
It’s you who are ignoring that in life there are priorities – right decision comes way ahead of the stuff you’re dredging up.
And again, you’re ignoring the point I made – you always had this problem without VAR:
Goal!… yes!! 🙂 … oh, the linesman’s flag is up 🙁
VAR is just another form of secondary offical, assisting the referee and VAR can raise an “electronic” flag.
Serially ignoring these points does your position no favours.
Incorrect once again. In order: Emotion is plainly the MAIN reason why football is the worlds sport. Not because fans care so deeply that ALL decisions should be correct. How often , for example , do we all see a keeper, when still holding the ball and preparing to kick it upfield, actually step slightly outside the penalty area, still with the ball in his hand. Momentarily, but that is not pulled up. It should be but it is not, and few make any fuss about it.
Just one example of myriad inconsistencies that happen all the time but which are largely ignored, even though they ought not to be , under football law.
But they ARE, thus proving my point.
Emotion is at the HEART of all fanhood and all the time we spend talking about, writing about and in general being passionate about our club or our country. To deny that truth is ridiculous!
Linesmen next: When linesmen used to instantly flag for offside, which worked well until they stopped flagging INSTANTLY for an offside, the crowd immediately knew the decision, unless the ref overruled it , in play.
No long waiting and cheering a goal, only to find, sometimes much later, that it had been chalked off by VAR. Your point does not hold water, almost always . Only VERY occasionally, and that is still better than with VAR, which often holds it up, sometimes for ages.
On a point of how we address each other, I fully accept that those who agree with you and you personally are fully entitled to express your opinion.
You will recall that in my article I SAID I would gladly abide by a masse fan debate. As will those who concur with me, I suggest; IT BEING A DEMOCRATIC VOTE WHERE ALL HAVE THEIR PERSONAL SAY.
But your manner of decrying our sides right to an opinion is, I repeat obnoxious , childish and immature.
It is plain you are VERY bright. But it is also plain you are intolerant of others right to have a different and well thought through opinion. And to express it.
Linesmen didn’t “instantly flag for offside”, even if you write it in capitals. As I said, and as football fans everywhere know perfectly well, it was common to be celebrating a goal and hear “But wait… the linesman’s flag’s up!”. Cue much groaning and wringing of hands.
Are you really trying to rewrite history – and deny that the situation is the same whether it’s a VAR official or an on-field official wielding the flag? That’s in the hair-splitting, fact-denying and straw-clutching department.
You’re constantly trying to pull a debate into emotive territory, ignoring the facts and the logic. You address only the rebuttal of your emotive argument about celebrations and ignore the other two points above that destroyed your other non-arguments.
But you never do address them – you eventually stop posting on those threads when you come across the 3 points I posted above. People think you’ve understood and accepted what was said, but…
You come back a couple of days later posting exactly the same stuff, as if you’ve never had the discussion before. Rinse and repeat, over and over again ad nauseam.
I see that you’re trying to goad me with insults now as well, it won’t work. It’s a bit rich since you’re the guy who throws insults around this place like confetti, day after day. You repeatedly insulted me in the discussion yesterday, and others too, such as Ken – you’ve serially insulted me again today. You repeatedly insult the admins, telling them what they can and can’t post on their own site. Suggest you have a look in the mirror?
Just to help you get over the logic threshold… I don’t decry your *right* to an opinion, I simply point out the pitiful lack of *merit* in your opinion. The difference escaped you, but it is vitally important. Pointing out that your opinion has no merit does not make a person “obnoxious”; if your opinion is nonsense then it’s simply fair comment – or if you prefer, it’s my opinion of your opinion.
When it comes to opinions, the old quotation applies: “I disagree with everything you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it” however after this Groundhog Day discussion I’d add the limitation “but not every day”… “and not while ignoring everything that’s been said to you many times on the same subject in the past”.
And by the way, no-one has to care what you said you’d accept. I really couldn’t care less what’s acceptable to you.
Now, to use a football analogy – perhaps you’d like to try playing the ball, not the man?
This is the same Lee Mason who disallowed our goal at Man U. This ‘ref’ has already cost up 5 points this season.
I hope it doesn’t come back to haunt us but subconsciously he is suspect.
I have read both articles by Jon and Ken and both have some valid points. Hence, I have decided to put my points to both in both articles. Sorry for the long post.
For Jon
Great article which I feel is from the heart. Football is all about passion from the heart.
However, to you cause you have not pointed out some facts as below:-
a) Football is not like watching a Whodunnit or a west end play. The outcome is undecided. So if a team scores first and let us say goes 2-0 in front, there is a smaller chance of a comeback if there is a long delay before declaring 2-1. Momentum is everything. It gives a higher percentage chance of the team scoring first than the comeback team which is what makes great memories. Thin of 199 final. Arsenal go 2-0 up. United come back to 2-2. Then Arsenal get the goal and win the FA cup with a Sunderland winner.
b) If you take away the joy of enjoying a brilliant goal, then you are taking away a part of what makes a football fan. It is like a funny joke that is stated and we have to wait for the censorship brigade (of course there are certain jokes which are unacceptable but we are not talking about these) to see whether we can laugh or not regardless of whether it was funny or not. Spontaneous emotion is killed.
For Ken
Again a great article which was possibly more factual than Jon’s and a great read.
Again I have 3 noticeable points as below:-
a) Similar to point b for Jon, whilst more decisions are right than wrong does this VAR body of officials have the right to kill the spontaneous emotion? If it does let us go and watch a Whodunnit. It is more professional, gets more things right as there are takes and re-takes to get it right. Only negative is that it has a fixed outcome. Whereas, football does not have a fixed outcome and that is why I am a football fan.
b) In the same vein as Jon’s point, the team that scores first has a better chance of winning as it slows the comeback momentum, thus making a better chance of a fixed outcome rather than an unknow outcome.
c) In my view Sepp Blatter mostly talks crap and AW mostly talks sense but that does not mean AW has never talked crap and SB has never talked sense. So I do not know how that sums up everything.
I responded to the small part of your post that I understood in Ken’s excellent article. I won’t repeat it here.
Nice article Jon. I disagree on the point – I think we’re better off trying to reach as fair a game as possible, and VAR is definitely a step towards that. It’s very clear to me they are getting it right more often now, and getting it horribly wrong far less. To me, that’s more important than the sheer excitement of a fast paced game with immediate decisions (which are more likely to be wrong!). Just because it’s not perfect, let’s not throw the baby with the bathwater – it’s still in it’s infancy and will get better.
Appreciate your passion in getting this discussion going.
Good post to read DAVI. Nothing wrong with differing opinions, not at all.
But I would love to kinow whether or not YOU agree with my contention that it is emotion that is the biggest factor in fanhood and loving our global sport.
Thinking about, discussing it, blogging etc and general passion, cheering and interest all come under the banner of emotion, surely!? IDKWIC said that emotion is not important and I said that he is, therefore ,out of touch with human understanding.
How do you stand on THAT point please?
Misrepresentation – yet again. I did *not* say it’s “not important”.
I definitely agree that emotion is an enormous part of the game and why we like it. I think the emotion derived from decisions going against your team is a part of that excitement as well – for better or worse. I’d also say the “emotion” or “drama” of thinking you’ve just scored a crucial goal only for it to be chalked off is a part of the game, whether VAR is involved or not.
I do think that *officiating* needs to be as emotionless as possible, however, as ultimately fairness is crucial for the game to have any meaning. I find it difficult to derive pleasure from winning in a manner that seemed unfair to the opposition, so I’d be more than happy to swap the instant, but less reliable decision for the slower, but more reliable one every time.
It was only after reading Indian Gunner London post on another thread I realize they are other articles on VAR.
Am happy for once the officials are coming under strong scrutiny and just may be, actions will be taken to arrest this monster that is tarnishing the games.
Dishonest and incompetent officials are not new to the sport , but those who hides behind VAR must be exposed so that the quality of the modern game can be enhanced.