So, my first of all my general opinion of VAR? Get rid of it! If you are using technology and still getting decision wrongs, then what’s the point?
For years now it’s actual usage hasn’t been consistent Some handballs are looked at then the same incident elsewhere isn’t.
The reason Goal line technology never caused any fuss was the systems tells you, black or white, yes or no, pregnant or not pregnant….. goal or not goal.
This weekend Brentford should have had their equaliser ruled out for offside.
What’s made that error hard to accept is this wasn’t officials at Stockley Park interpretation an incident a certain way.
They have admitted they simply forgot to draw the lines, which means in essence they failed to do their job.
Everyone makes mistakes at work, but these gentlemen were getting paid a decent wage to oversee a match that is worth a lot of money to those involved.
A lot of us can’t get away with simply forgetting to do crucial elements of our job. Sitting in that officefor 8 hours, it’s not like for 90 minutes you actually have a lot to do, so surely when any goal goes in that’s when you roll up your sleeves and get to work?
Memes have gone round towards what was Lee Mason doing that was so important that distracted him from this key part of his job? His bosses might want a serious answer.
Mr Mason messed up, nothing he can say or do changes the result on Saturday. PGMOL have apologised to Arsenal but it doesn’t give us two extra points or get the fixture replayed does it?
So, complaining about VAR?
Asking refs to be better?
I’m with every Gooner on that.
Then though I hear that word … agenda….. conspiracy .., etc.
Huge accusations which only add to the online abuse Lee Mason is receiving.
Also simply not backed up by any kind of evidence.
One of our readers posted this yesterday when I suggested that normally the team who finishes 1st in the table has been the best team……..
Losing 7-9 points to terrible decisions by officials where other teams have, if anything, gained from bad decisions…
That means we certainly can be the best team and still lose.
If someone else wins it, they’d better be 10+ points clear (more if we see more of these issues), or we’ll certainly have a case for claiming “we was robbed”.
Unless this person is under a certain age it’s quite self-absorbed isn’t it. You can only see a world of Arsenal and nothing else that goes on beyond it.
I know I’m meant to nod my head out of fear of being called names, but I can’t pretend facts didn’t happen just to suit our own agenda.
So let’s say Man City win the title by a six point margin is it fair to say they done that, based on us losing points to terrible decisions, while they benefitted?
Didn’t we just have a Manchester Derby where the Champions lost due to an outrageous equaliser, where Rashford was judged not to have interfered with play while being in an off side position?
Didn’t City lose at Anfield after Foden had a goal harshly disallowed?
Do we just ignore that?
As for this agenda against Arsenal …… Liverpool felt they should had a penalty at the Emirates for a Gabriel handball, Palace the same accusation against the same player?
If a conspiracy existed to cost us points wouldn’t have those spot kicks been given?
What about when VAR reversed Gabriel’s red card and pen at Elland Road? Why would that happen if there was a conspiracy?
A bit like you when you’re besotted with your new partner …. no one else really cares.
Just because you love the Arsenal doesn’t mean others are sat up thinking about them, plotting their down fall. Whisper it quietly, we are unique, we are not special, we are just one of several clubs who unfortunately lose out when play is officiated by VAR. Some calls go our way, others don’t.
Lee Mason, for example, simply is not good at his job. There is zero motive behind it, no rhyme or reason. The 51 year old , since the 05/6 season reffed us in 30 fixtures.
We lost …. 3!
So If this man has an agenda , he’s not very good at it is he?
He awarded 2 penalties against us, 4 in our favour
So if he’s part of this master plan to sabotage Arsenal he’s terrible at it?
He gave us 1 red card and the opponents 2.
Again, wouldn’t that card count be a lot higher against us,if he was part of this undercover operation to hurt Arsenal .
So to clarify , Arsenal AND Man City have both been cost points due to bad officiating.
Lee Mason given us 1 red card and 2 penalties against us in 30 games, numbers that hardly scream ‘agenda’.
Whisper it quietly, he’s simply a bad ref.
Nothing else, nothing more…
Dan
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Very good and unbiased. VAR is good for getting rid of the corruption in our game. It seems that the corrupt officials don’t want VAR to work. With so many betting companies sponsoring teams in the EPL and other leagues, I am not surprised at some of the officiating. Than there are some teams that play like champions one week and just fail to show up the next.
Totally agree with both Dan and SueP when they debunk that silly myth that refs, and in this case Lee Mason are biased against us. I have never thought refs biased at all( poor in standard,yes, but not biased) , though I see fan bias all the time. It is overhelming, though ignored or denied by many unthinking and unfair minded fans.
Even with some older GOONERS, WHO REALLY OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER.
Jon
I read the pro and anti VAR posts and articles
I do believe that It is worth keeping but the consequences of poor decision making have dire outcomes. It can’t be beyond the wit of mankind to follow a script?
Sadly, Sue, I have to say that all evidence over thelast few years since it came in shows me it “IS beyond the wit of mankind”.
As my article stresses WE ARE UNWISE TO EXPECT PERFECTION FROM ANY HUMAN BEING.
IF it could be made to work, both speedily and correctly, I would accept it But as yet , until AI takes over, it will not IMO.
Where I DIFFER WITH MANY, is that I always said it could not work properly while EXTRA HUMANS in Stockley Park, have a second, often SUBJECTIVE opinion, than the pitch ref.
Those who brought it in showed a dismal lack of foresight about foreseeable human frailty.
ONE DECISION MAKER ONLY IS THE RIGHT ANSWER
I don’t believe in conspiracy theories and bad decisions are made against all clubs
If the role of VAR operator is sooo complex why not give the Lee Masons of this world a checklist to follow and ✔️ off when it’s completed? Simple! Even he should be able to manage that!🙄 The man was incompetent.
Suep absolutely incompetent, I remember against man united he ruled out the martinelli goal. VAR is blatant errors now, and honestly In my opinion it’s impacting how the main refs and assistant refs are working in the sense that they aren’t Keen or concentrating enough, a certain laxity in knowing there is help.
Cut the sanctimonious fair play and all that English hypocrisy. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories either but the foul be Saliba was as a set up which the officials should have been savvy enough to pick up and how on earth do you forget to draw the lines when assessing an offside VAR decision, either you are an idiot or a crook.
People keep insisting that we lost two points because of Mason’s cock up. NOT TRUE. That was not the end of the game and nobody knows what the outcome would have been if the goal had been rightfully disallowed, and Brentford was just as likely to score anyway. In fact, I’m surprised that they didn’t push on to get the win they so easily could have, instead just settling for a spoiling finish to the game.
Absolutely right Jax
Impossible to add more to that
It is obviously true to say that it is possible that Brentford might have scored at a later time in the game. However, it is incorrect to state that they were just as likely to score anyway.
It is difficult to difficult to calculate probabilities. However, their likelihood of scoring would have continually diminished as the game progressed if they had not been awarded that goal.
The diminishing goal oportuniies would have occured whether the goal was awarded or not.
I’m firmly in the “we wuz robbed” camp, but the match did not end on minute 74.
There are differences.
We lost 2 points, because of a clear mistake, which has been objectively assessed and acknowledged.
That can in no way be compared to Liverpool feeling thye should have been awarded a penalty against us. That was a subjective interpretation.
But I don’t believe in conspiracies against any team. But I do believe in bias and sympathies, which consciously or subconsciously can affect how subjective interpretations are made. In fact, no person can claim to be 100% neutral. Over time, statistically the team(s) with most followers/fans will also have more referees and more VAR officials favouring them. Whether that is a measurable advantage is doubtful, though.
Oh and the first line was I don’t like VAR
So you must have read more then the first line silly Billy , else you wouldn’t know it’s content
You can’t say we lost 2 points because there was still time left in the game when the incident happened, if it had been the last kick in the game you could say that. Who knows, if the goal had been correctly ruled out Brentford might have gone on and scored 2 valid goals and won the game anyway.
Where we did lose 2 points was our inability to score more than 1 goal with all the possession we had. That should be more worrying than something we cannot control.
Not how I see it.
The performance wasn’t great from us. But we had won the game, if the rules had been followed. Simple as that.
We would not necessarily have won the game if the rules had been followed. The rules did not say “Brentford’s goal is overuled so Arsenal are the winners because they are in the lead by one goal” I would have hoped that we would have gone onto win from that position of leading by one goal, but Brentford were always likely to score one or more. There is no way of knowing the outcome of this match. I feel cheated in the same way as most of our fans, but the fact is the game could have gone three ways.
You go on believing that, even Arteta agrees with you😊
Another way to look at this would be to say that technically & legally the game was a draw, but morally we were cheated out of the points.
I’ll say it again, VAR is not rubbish, it’s the ex refs, current refs and anyone else incompetent to use it. I’d say let Sky make the decisions using it but they would be more biased than the ref(s) ! 🤔
Agree and Dan, it seems, wants to go back to when only 82%of major decisions were correct and dismiss the reason why it’s now 94%.
I really cannot understand why and for what purpose.
My analogy about someone having an accident in a car because they failed to observe the rules, should mean that all cars are banned until we can find a car that takes away the human element?
I’m sure that would go down like a lead balloon!!
Hi Ken…
Great analogy!!!
I was about to respond with the same analogy on Jon Fox’s article, but I am glad I read through all the follow-up articles and the different responses therein…
I suppose there is no better way to illustrate the need to keep using technology…
Every tool, including the computer used to create and publish these articles on JA, is limited by the user’s capacity to apply the tool… I have noticed several typos in many articles here on JA, but there should never be a claim to ban or restrict the use of whatever computer that may have been employed to create these articles…
My opinion is that our clarion call should be to develop human capabilities even further through proper education, training sessions, and workshops, rather than to prohibit the use of any technology aimed at assisting any noble cause of humanity…
Nevertheless, it has been interesting to read the various lines of debate from both sides…
Cheers!
Couldn’t get past the first line. Utter nonsense, already debunked elsewhere.
I might have guessed who the author would be – not the first time he’s ceided to write his own slef-important artcile instead of replying to the poeple who’ve already done it.
And of course, talking utter nonsense as ever.
I won’t waste any more time here. Say what you like Smith, I won’t be back to read it.
@Pat: Not sure it helps to post this article. And this author… sigh, please, wield the axe?
What utter arrogance to try to ban others comments and articles. No believer in the right to free speech, are you!!
For clarity, I have very often taken DAN TO TASK FOR WHAT I VIEW AS HIS NEGATIVE STANCE TOWARDS OUR TEAMS CHANCES.
But I do not wish him banned. That would be to exceed YOUR brief on JA.
DANS- not Smith btw but Dan OR Dan Smith – pieces often irritate me, but neither I, NOR ANYONE ELSE HAS THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR HIM TO BE BANNED.
Take him to task yourself and challenge his views by all means, but free speech is of paramount import and this site IS for ALL OF US.
One man’s meat is another man’s poison @idkwic
But if you would like to ban all the writers that YOU don’t like. Give me a good reason please…
Wow
I think someone likes the sound of their own voice a little bit to much .
What a complete Tool .
That was for IDKWIAC
Dan kit, totally with you on this. Though we have hadmany differences, I thin that through trial and error wehave finally come to arealistion that each has his own right to whatever opinion he states. As have all other fans too.
But I draw the line at censorship- as Ad PAT will attest over many years, , from my emails to him about it – and think you and others including PAT, RIGHT to take him to task.
All MY LIFE Dan, I have stood passionately for free speech for all non abusive posts and actual talking in public.
I loathe the idea of cancel culture, as it is illiberal, anti freedom and plain wrong.
It is what tyrant controlled counties enforce on their poor disadvantaged citizens. Russia, China, North Korea and others too. UGH!
Omg cancel culture on a football opinion site
You literally just asked for me to be banned simply for having a different point of view
OTT in my opinion IDKWIC, debate is always welcome on JA and you don’t have to read or comment on anything if you don’t want to.
This from Arteta today
“Because that wasn’t a human error. That was a big, big, big not conceiving and understanding your job. That’s not acceptable, I’m sorry. And that cost Arsenal two points and that’s not going to be restored”.
I don’t like that. It’s encouraging this victim mentality we’re seeing from fans – maybe he’s after that “seige mentality” instead, but it’s a fine line to walk.
Like I’ve mentioned before, it’s a bit rich to say we were robbed in this game considering what went in our favour. I’m not against characterising a very bad decision as us being robbed if that’s all that happened, but that wasn’t the case – both teams suffered a horrible decision against them.
Even he says we lost two points. Sorry Mikel I don’t agree. I know what you mean but the best I’ll say is it was two “virtual” points.
To be serious, I would have hoped we could have gone on to win after being a goal up in the second half and we probably would have, but you can never rule Brentford out.
Its no conspiracy you naive jumped up cheerleader ,its real ,every game we got biased refs against us obviously you havent notice because we been winning ,if we havent you will be singing onother tune.i can break it down game by game this season but got no time for that as you got your blinkers on ,only 2 games i will mention newcastle one ,gabriel wrestled down and there was no VAR review and there was not even live tv replay when game stopped only after about 10 mins later i think sky gave us the courtesy of the replay and the the handball var review and no pen ,and not to forget the time wasted on second half i could think at lest 15 to 20 min newcatle players on the floor refs give 5min added you could see arteta livid with that ,and brentford game “forgot to draw the lines” FORGOT ,i bet you still think it was a genuine “mistake ” dont be naive PGMOL and fa wont let arsenal win the league ,you will see many more of these “genuine mistakes” go AGAINST US NOT FOR US
So why did they call a foul on saliba (who clearly just slipped) and cancel out a Brentford goal earlier in the game? Surely they’d have let that one go if this was part of a grand conspiracy – they wouldn’t have even had to defend it…
Ok davi the sheep as i said we ve been winning games thats why we havent have these discussions but every games we have had decisions go against us ,im not conspiracist i am saying what i see .you just wait till tomorrows games some outrages decisions go against us unless pgmol tries to save face and have a unbiased playing field tomorrow which i doubt it ,just wait and see
You didn’t answer his question
If there was a conspiracy against us why would a decision go our way , eg , Gabriel getting away with handball against Palace and Liverpool
Surely by your stance , the officials would give a pen ?
Alex Ferguson once said that bad decisions against teams even themselves out over the season. Anyone who believes this nonsense is deluding themselves.
Ohhh my comments are under review i wonder why ohh bless im going against the sheep mentality hoard thinking .
No, it is simply that you have been putting dodgy comments, and you will moderated until i think otherwise…
Whats dodgy about my comments bud im simply stating what i think without insulting anyone
And then you IMMEDIATELY insulted some one…
AdPAT I find the above post deeply personally offensive. I do not want him banned but he needs to be made to write in human vein and not use words like that.
PSG will lose. Bayern will cook them. Musiala, Choupo-Moting and Sane will cook them. Messi will also cook Bayern.
The talk on VAR seems to be mostly about how many points it has cost us.i am still to read about the decisions which benefited us.i can’t think of one on top of my head but I’m pretty sure that we got lucky/away with it several times ourselves.
I think what a lot of people a missing is that regardless of dodgy officiating, which you are going to get with or without technology, if you want to win any competition then it shouldn’t come down to having decisions go your way. Be good enough to find a way to win anyway. It won’t always happen but a draw against Brentford because of a bad call cannot be allowed to overshadow a loss to Everton where we were well beaten. Those are the games that win or lose you league titles.
“if you want to win any competition then it shouldn’t come down to having decisions go your way. Be good enough to find a way to win anyway”
You’re spot on!!👍
Ok apologise to admin pat and jon fox poor choice of words ,but critical thinking its needed it happens far too often to us,if its a one off ill hold my hands up but every match we get biased refs against us
@Frank
You are not critically thinking in this issue. It seems like you don’t know what Critical thinking is.
There is a difference between being a Skeptic vs a Cynic / conspiratorial.
Feels like you are part of this growing and visually noticeable trend of conspiracy theorists (Anti Vaxx, Climate deniers, science deniers, illuminati, New world order, George Soros, types.
You seem to have convinced yourself that going against simple fairly agreed upon logic makes you one of the “Enlightened ones” while the rest are just gullible / simple minded Sheep that just follow.
Are you in *Red Pill / Joe Rogan / Peterson* society by any chance?
What’s next “everyone is else is a sheep for believing that The Earth Is Spherical” while you the smart ones think it’s FLAT?
🤦♂️
Ohh goonster i got found out huh ,is that the best you can come up with ? Iam being as straight as i can be when it comes to watching arsenal i do believe refs are biased and and the whole PGMOL selecting of refereeing allocation system its rigged ,breaking news fella lee mason and brooks removes from VAR duties just for this weekend and the next weekend after will be reinstated like nothing ever happened, brooks was supposed to be the VAR ref for tonights game hes removed and replaced with even worst anti arsenal ref called david coote on VAR duties ,all the malarky anti vax etc,. you spouting i didnt know you were mystic meg you got me bud .jesus do you even listen to yourself ?!
So the question should be really, does the juice worth the squeeze?
Now that the whole process is under public scrutiny , they are three main areas that have been consistently abuse by officials must be addressed immediately.
1) Time wasting / This could be addressed by implementing the recent world cup time added procedures.
2) Handball in the penalty box / Once the ball is on it’s way to goal penalty awarded.
3) Half side rules / Once a line can be drawn between both opposing set of players it’s on side.
Am not one to believe in conspiracy theories but consistent mistakes by the officials lends itself to all sorts of drama if not addresse
Gunsmoke, on your point 1 about time wasting – I totally agree with you.
Time wasting is robbing the paying public out of it’s money’s worth and could be another string to the bow of VAR and take a further “burden” away from the referee in the middle.
Ken, For this, among other reasons , I would personally want all time keeping and all stoppages too, taken away from the ref and given to an independent timekeeper.
As I know from being in my local refs society and going to meetings, refs try to manage games. And esp time! In the sense that all attacking situations which are possibly leading to a goal are always allowed, even when time is way past being up , including time added on too.
Just see how many times full time is blown when the keeper has kicked the ball upfield and it still in the air and NEVER just before a corner.
Coincidence? Of course not.
Its time management or to put it another way, cheating or fiddling the actual time the whole game SHOULD take.
I’d be in favour of #1
as for offside with the semi- automated offside in its way,this should sort it out but not about handball.
2 out 3 ain’t bad!!
These conspiracy theories always make me cringe.
There’s another really weird Arsenal blog dedicated to it.
Name??
Not sure if AdminPat will approve of this, but it’s Untold Arsenal, which hardly anyone with a pair of matching brain cells believes.
I’ve been arguing with fellow Arsenal fans about these Anti Arsenal conspiracy theories on this site and other platforms from as far back as 2014.
Instinctual ( go by gut feeling) Stuff like this just irritate me so much..
We are in the 21st century where we have so much information, logic and critical thinking skills are easy to attain. But people are still shallow / sensationalist thinkers and go by their guts. The world is much more nuanced but people still find it tough to accept.
If you go to any Man United fans forum, they are in there crying about the anti Man United bias, how we are all jealous of their global sucess. That everyone is baised against them because they are not a London club.
You go to the Chelsea and City fans forums. They are crying foul play. That there is a massive bias against them because they came in and disrupted the status quo (United, Arsenal and Liverpool). That we are all biased and Anti their success because they have owners that love and are willing to back them financially.. To be honest I agree with them in this situation.. I am biased against Chelsea, City and soon Newcastle. Lol
You get onto Spurs fans forums. They are all crying victim, that everyone is against them for daring to challenge the likes of United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Liverpool on a much smaller budget blah blah.
Liverpool, the same shtick.
Then you have our fan Gunners always crying about Ref and FA anti Arsenal biases. The Refs and FA can’t stand Arsenal hence why they encouraged other teams to beak / injure Ramsey, Eduardo, Diaby legs. They always conspiring against arsenal On and Off the pitch. Blah blah.
So irritating.
🤦♂️🤦♂️
Profoundly true! Any sane fan whohas ever gone on various other top clubs fan forums, have LONG known to be true!
Simply put, most fans everywhere are biased. REFS ARE NOT!
Sorry Jax, but this website is a very good one.
It just doesn’t spout conspiracy theries and has a very loyal base of educated Gooners.
Perhaps you could explain Jen’s point regarding the fact that Manchester United did not have one penalty decision given against them at Old Trafford in Ferguson’s time (I believe) , until VAR was introduced?
‘Bad Ref’ means one of two things. He was a poor ref….or he was bad in a more sinister sense. We have no idea which ‘BAD’ was going on. The only way is to factually investigate. Good that the Lee Mason VAR delinquency is being looked at. In reality now we know the rules were not followed there. By default, there should also be a police investigation to make sure no intentional practices were ongoing….. in order to affect the result during the game. Lee Mason should be criminally investigated to make sure that there wasn’t some reason for his disturbing decision. That should be a ‘given’ so that negligence rather than corruption is shown to be the reason for the disturbing decision to allow Brentford’s goal. Not a conspiracy theory, but pure logic to try and fully investigate the decision to ‘give’ a goal to Brentford and take two points away from Arsenal. The proven ‘serious error’ by Mason should be ‘fully’ investigated.
Conspiracy theory is irrelevant….but taking what happened on it’s merits, making a mistake by error/negligence…. because we know the event happened, could it be deliberate? To say yes or no is silly. We know that the decision was made in spite of him supposed to be doing the job properly. In reality it could have been a deliberate decision and that should/must be investigated. Nothing to do with a conspiracy.
Not much chance of that! But you’re right, an apology and admission of getting it absolutely wrong would be good to see.
No sean by you saying he deliberately forgot to draw up the lines makes you a conspiracist same as me ,if anyone believes it was a lack of judgement and slip second mistake and NOT deliberate mistake then i got no hope for whoever buys it, its same as saying i work as a bus driver but when i went to work i forgot how to drive ,.