ADMIN COMMENT – I was quite amazed to be told that Gurjit’s article yesterday was stolen by the “internet demons”. I can quite clearly see the article on my side of the editing screen, but it must have been written in invisible ink or the demons obviously didn’t want the readers to see them!
But anyway, I am trying again to see if the demons will let you read Gurjit’s words this time around….
315 million spent since Wenger by Gurjit
I haven’t posted an article in a little while as it would be difficult to not add to the negativity surrounding the club. However, there are some views I feel that I want to highlight. That view being that this is mostly the players fault and we need to get rid of the “deadwood” before we can make any real progress – a view as it happens our board seem to have hinted at with comments around an overhaul of the squad.
Firstly I agree that an overhaul of sorts is needed, though I think to blame it all on the players is a bit of a jump. After all they do not sign themselves and they do not manage themselves as this is what Arteta, Edu and the board is responsible for. So let’s take a look at the claim “the Wenger era players are the problem and they need to leave” as it’s one I hear a lot. To do this I am not going to scrutinise the players that we have left from that era and their impact, but look at what we have done since to improve the squad.
We have signed a whole host of players for substantial fees and salaries in the time since Wenger left – Torreira, Leno, Sokratis, Guendouzi, Litchsteiner, Pepe, Saliba, Tierney, Luiz, Mari, Martinelli, Soares, Ceballos, Partey, Gabriel, Runarsson, Willian. (going by Transfermarkt this is around 315m Euros excluding wages and loan fees).
It should be clear from this list that we have, at considerable expense, brought in players to improve the squad, yet we are in a situation in the league worse than fans have ever seen.
How many of these players are you happy with? Gabriel, Martinelli, Tierney, Partey, Leno? (though ironically fans prefer Martinez who signed under Wenger). It isn’t good enough from the board to spend this much money on players and then turn around and say the squad needs an overhaul due to the players attitudes, as if they are not responsible for the squad. It isn’t good enough from fans either to scapegoat players as if they are the cause of this situation, and say that if they left to free up space and money we would sign those players that could really change the squad.
Pepe is a great example of what is wrong, as we can all see that he has talent, so the fact that he has been so poor along with Auba, Willian and Lacazette, should indicate that the issue is not just that recruitment has been poor, but that once we have these players we do not coach them well. This is to say nothing about us leaving our only creative player unable to complete for the squad on merit and then not bringing in a replacement either.
As I see it the players aren’t the biggest problem (directly) and nor are the owners (from a financial perspective). We have repeatedly made mistakes in the transfer market and it is not good enough for the board to say that we need an overhaul of players that they brought in and failed to improve and coach effectively.
Where do you think the issue lies?
Gurjit
Kroenke hired the employees that deal with player transfers. Kroenke, the board, the executives, the directors and the manager must have reached a joint decision before they sanctioned the purchases, such as the 35 M Shkrodran Mustafi deal and the 72 M Nicolas Pepe deal
Arsenal tend to sign players from abroad to get cheaper price and more marketable footballers, which is very different than Liverpool’s transfer policy under Klopp. Klopp’s decisions to sign Wijnaldum from Newcastle, Robertson from Hull, Mane from Soton, Salah from Roma and Jota from Wolves were frowned upon, but look at how good those underrated EPL players perform
Arsenal must change their complacency culture and transfer policy first, before hiring a new manager or player. They need to get players who’re good in one-on-one situations and duels, not the ones who’re just collecting certain stats like forward-passes and chances-created
Gotanidea
First a merry Christmas
The complacency culture and transfer policy starts at the top and person to blame has to be SK
He runs the ship and for years he has used afc as a cash cow
As for the managers AW to start I loved him to bits but he became to predicable and and blinded by his way and not changing
UE we went with a cheap version and didn’t want to pay the bucks for a top tier manager
MA has inherited a bag of rubbish and it takes time.. seasons rather than months to get players out on big contracts.
Do i like what I see ..no because we are not winning
Our football is poor. Confidence slowly draining away but I do see us turning it around and for now he is our manager and for that I will support him until such times he will be let go and then it will be the king is dead long live the new king or queen
The rot started when the old guard sold out to the American for greed not for the love of the club regardless of what they try to justify there means for.
My only problem is MA will be the architect of his own down fall if he persists in playing players who are out of sorts and not good enough for us.
We have brought in a few great players for the future. We have a young players coming through the ranks but we all want success now after suffering years on the brink of going nowhere.. patience is the word…
Merry Christmas all..
Onwards and upwards..
If it is downwards then I think we might be in trouble 🤔
Merry Christmas to you too. I’d just like to tell you that I had a boss whose attitude is similar to Kroenke’s
He thinks his employees will work 100% professionally without tight monitoring, just because he paid them handsomely. When things didn’t work out, he just replaced them and the big turnover hurt the company badly
His main income is from other company, so he didn’t care much about his other companies. I guess his lack of control, laziness and negligence are similar to Kroenke’s
No employee will put in extra effort if he thinks he’s highly replaceable and if there’s ignorance/ complacency/ negligence/ toxic culture in a big company. The bad examples from the top of the hierarchy are highly infectious like a chain reaction and the owner doesn’t seem to care despite having to pay for the incompetency
“MA has inherited a bag of rubbish and it takes time.. seasons rather than months to get players out on big contracts”
12 months down the line… Willian, Cedric, Mari all on 3 year-contracts. Stop this nonsense of he inherited rubbish players. Aubameyang, Lacazette, Bellerin, Tierny, Pepe, Toreira, etc may be under-performing but they are in no way rubbish players or worse than the players at say, Leicester or Everton. Something is wrong beyond the quality of the players. I dare say that should Wenger return to this team now, the quality of display will immediately change. I feel that Mikel’s system isn’t good enough. Wenger was able to implement his system no matter who was in the starting 11 (even though results were not optimal at times). Mikel has to work on his training routines; what you see on the pitch is what goes on in training. Systems are perfected during daily training routines until they become second nature. If it is about having a squad of 24 beaters, then every coach would be elite if handed money.
Absolutely TH 14 and I’m really surprised that Alan Ball said that.
The bag of rubbish won MA the fa cup final and since then, he has bought in Gabriel and Partey, plus the two best youngsters for a long time, Saka and Martinelli – the latter having an excellent game tonight and hope the injury isn’t too bad.
Once again, a claim is made to defend Arteta, when, with the same players (plus the two mentioned) he was regarded as the answer to our problems, as he won the fa cup and the “new MA trophy ” the Community Shield.
I agree, instead of always signing players from abroad lets look at some of the players playing in this country who don’t have to spend months getting used to the PL as Liverpool have done. To buy a player from abroad and then say that he can’t play until he acclimatises ( whatever that means, as far as I know a football pitch is roughly the same size everywhere ) is just crazy. There are players in this country who would be great signings.
I don’t blame wenger it’s not his fault the other manager’s or s.. t and signed bad players I wish he came back
Would you like a list ofALL the bad players Wenger signed PAL. In fact, in his last few years it would be shorter to write down the good players Wenger signed.
Yeah and who’s fault is that mate for not getting better players.You conveniently say that money is not being spent well at the club….the same problems happened during Wengers reign.Who didn’t sign Higuain along with Ozil during the summer of 2013 just because we didn’t have enough funds….thats right the board genius.Who’s always saying that Arsenal are a self financing club…as far as I’m aware the board say that but in order to be a self sustainable club you need better commercial deals something Arsenal isn’t capable of doing and before you mention ADIDAD just know that Chelsea and United have a far better deal than us apart from other sponsors nd what do Arsenal have …….visit fucking Rwanda.Do your jobs at least and point out the real problems.You talk like Wenger had the cream of the crop to choose from.Always bargain hunting and who’s fault is that??Wenger I assume as well not the club that never put in the money forward.
In fact, in his last few years it would be shorter to write down the good players Wenger signed.
That’s because they cost money genius.No wonder the club is in the state it’s in with “Fans” like this.
Player recruitment has been very hit and miss, but that was also true under Wenger.
The decline at arsenal has been going on for years, really ever since the stadium move. We went from having a team of winners to one or two winners within a group of talented losers, who seemed interested more in just getting money and living the good life. It’s why players like RVP and fabregas felt they had to leave.
Where we are now is a consequence of that, as well as a lot of other bad decisions.
Of course it’s not all Wenger’s fault, but a lot of the current issues stem from his time at Arsenal
Spot on
This is the sign of a mid table club, do you see any top clubs in world bling a regime which was 3 years old. We are in third year after Wenger left and all we can do is blame Wenger. Do you think Man United are Balmung Alex F for what they have to endure after him. Do you think Madrid balmed Del Bosque for trophy drought after him.
We ARE a mid table club now – at best. We’re taking about why that happened – I said clearly it’s not all Wenger’s fault but he did have a hand in a lot of it. I’m looking at the situation and it appears things are going to get worse before they get better and cycling through more managers is only going to delay things getting better.
A lot of people were blaming Ferguson for leaving a lot of trash in their squad. Fortunately for them, they are or were the biggest brand in the world and could afford to keep buying top level, seemingly low risk players. They also went through 2 proven top level managers and they’re still far from a great side.
I suppose United are still blaming Moyes even Fergie left a crap squad.All the teams were crap that season United won the league.The difference is they a have a lot more money than arsenal so they fix their problems easily.Arsenal make one mistake and it’s going to be difficult to sell the players because we only generate funds trough selling players god forbid we get some good commercial deals you know.
Those who blame Wenger for the current situation are the same people who were orchestrating the removal of Wenger. Wenger signed good players during his reign, at times he would make mistakes. But overall, he signed impact players. Emery did well also. But Arteta is the worst. Willian, Mari, Cedric, are below the required standard. Most youngsters were groomed by Wenger, and he could give them a chance to prove themselves. I’m talking about Wilshere, Gibbs, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Anelka, Fabregas, Ashley Cole, Gnabry, Sczesney, Fabianski, and Maitland-Niles. Wenger has more positives than Emery and Arteta. He also introduced the most entertaining football style at Arsenal
ONE WORD *** LEGEND ****
I see you have used my name for the above comment i would like you to use a different sign in name for future posts. I have been using gooner 4 life since i started posting items on this and other related arsenal sites.
I respectfully ask you to use another name. may i wish you verry happy Christmas.
ANOTHER WORD ***SACKED***
Wenger had a massively positive impact at Arsenal in the beginning but of those players you listed (mostly from the latter part of his time at the club) how many were really successful? In fact, Ashley Cole and fabregas, left because of what they felt was a lack of ambition/support. Ox left because he wasn’t making the most of his potential. I would argue a few more of those players were terribly mishandled as well, given too much too soon.
Alex Song was one of my favourite players to watch at arsenal but reading how he was jealous of Henry’s car really hit home about what was wrong with the culture at the club.
Cheers Armoury.
Could not agree more. Wenger also signed a certain Thierry Henry. The rest is history. He was the best manager ever, not just the best Arsenal ever had. He introduced football in its most ideal form .
Best manager ever ? Couldn’t win back to back league titles or any European silverware.. most definitely not the best manager ever, far from it.
The over praise always gets to me.
I love and respect wenger, but the way some people just come up with over the top praise comments about him gets cringeworthy.
20 years at Arsenal = 3 titles.
20 years at Arsenal = 0 UCL
20 years at Arsenal = One UCL final.
Those 3 titles came early into his tenure and that was that.
After 2004 we have never challenged for the title. Just making up numbers.
If wenger was at any other serious so called big club he would have been sacked by 2007 because he had reached his sell by date. We held onto him on sentiment and the memories of his early years.
Just being objective and honest.
Well said Goonster 👍 although it was 22 years which makes it slightly worse… It’s very cringeworthy and some people asking for him back is even more so, like he’s some sort of Messiah.. if Wenger was this best manager ever then surely he would have won the champions League at least once! In reality 3 league titles in 22 years is not all that impressive, he done excellently in the fa cups, I will give him credit for that though.
We did challenge in 07/08 and were pretty unlucky. Other than that completely agree
“Just being objective and honest.”
If you are then i think you need to research our history more.
20 years at Arsenal = Prem 3 titles, 7 FA cups, 7 CS, CL runners up, 6 x runner up in the prem, 20 years of CL football.
Not to mention the training facilities and the stadium move.
“If Wenger was at any other serious so called big club he would have been sacked by 2007 because he had reached his sell by date”
I think you missed the journey that saw us get all those great achievements for the club, ah well your loss.
At this rate it may be looked back on as a golden age but pity you missed it.
Apart From Anelka, Febregas, and Cole the rest were rubbish.
Cole was brought through the youth system dummy. And Vieira was the most important signing Wenger made. When he was sold everything changed.
He was going through a list in the original comment, not taking about every signing Wenger made
You could make loads of arguments about Wengers signings but saying he made bad transfers too doesnt absolve the poor decsions that have been made since he left. A bad signing now is still a bad signing whether or not we signed Andre Santos.
ARSEN SISNED LENO AND SOKRATIS
No no no, Wenger didn’t sign Socratis and Leno. Absolutely not
No, he signed silvestre, squillaci, Santos and a host of other duds in his time. That doesn’t wash away the amazing signings he did make and the incredible teams he built in the first half of his Arsenal period.
However I believe the Ozil contract (the single worst decision in the past 20 years in my view) was also under Wenger. Another one we are 100percent suffering from now – whether you think Ozil should be playing or not, it’s given the player too much power and reduced the club’s ability to sign top players.
you should read wengers comments on ozils big contract,,, it was gazidis’ decision
Fair enough mate – I was wrong on that one.
Then as manager what was Wenger doing? Chewing lollipops? Enough of the blame game.
The man is to blame for the decline by pampering mediocre players and accepting complacency. Asked RVP why he quit? Chamak, Park, Perez, Sonogo, Silvestra, Cygan, KIm, Gallas, Xhaka, Elneny, Andre Santos, Kolasinac, Gervino, and the list is much more than those he signed. No doubt he was good until 2006, and by then he had completely dismantled the GG team and started dismantling the invincibles. The rot started under him. Emery tried to revive, almost succeeded, had it not been for Xhaks’s penalty at Brighton to lose the 4th spot or Ozil’s non performance at Baku. Both must have been intentional IMO . I do not need any explanations
@Loosecannon. The fact that you believe that is just sad. For me, if Wenger had moved to the other clubs which offered him jobs, then maybe he could have got the elusive CL that he misses. It is his love for Arsenal that has pampered us fans.
Please see my previous comments in reply to your first comment.
Blamers will be blamers. They will blame everything and everyone else but what the seek to defend.
Not sure why some people expect a squad overhaul every time there’s a change in manager. If clearing out players and signing better ones is the primary focus of a manager, clubs should appoint top scouts and transfer gurus to manage their teams instead of coaches.
Tactics, training and uniting the players are the more important aspects of a manager’s job. A good manager should be able to make a team play better than its parts because a poor manager can certainly make a team play below its potential.
If we keep focusing on individuals instead of the team, we are missing the big picture
True, but this is why I’m supporting of what Arteta is trying to do – whether he will ultimately be successful or not is hard to know, but at least he’s trying to build the team and promote the right culture/mentality (not that I’ve agreed with all his decisions)
It’s nice that you have faith in Arteta when so many have turned on him.
Let’s hope for the sake of the club that he gets it right soon
Thanks Winston. The worry I have is that this would always take longer than most people are willing to wait. Maybe this year will be awful, next year slightly better and the year after we start to look decent. I don’t think Arteta will get that long, but whoever came in after him would have to continue with trying to fix the problems and not go for instant success. I’m not sure I have faith that things would go that way…
Don’t think Arteta will get that long too Davi.
Most fans probably did not expect instant success . Think they would be satisfied if he at least maintained last year’s league position and would be quite pleased if he progress a couple of places up the table for a Europa spot.
Unfortunately, we regressed and their patience is wearing thin. He needs progress, however little that may be, to buy him time
Kroenke back in 2016.
“If you want to win championships then you would never get involved. I think the best owners in sports are the guys that sort of watch both sides a bit. If you don’t have a good business then you can’t really afford to go out and get the best players unless you just want to rely on other sources of income.“
Admirable to seek to operate within a “self sustainable bubble”, but is said framework fit for purpose in the “modern” (yuk) era ?
The evidence would seem to indicate not.
Forget “Silent” Stan, try “Spreadsheet” Stan.
Remember, we left Highbury to compete with the likes of Bayern Munich apparently ?
There are top teams in the modern era that do not rely on huge injections of cash from their owners.
Off the top of my head, I can think of Liverpool, Spurs and Leicester. Even Man Utd are spending what they earn. They are all self-sustainable without their owners pumping in money
Good comments Winston.
All I would say though, it the point you are starting from.
Let’s take Liverpool.
In Klopp’s opinion, Liverpool need “tweaking ” by the addition of 2 final pieces to the jigsaw.
Centre back – Van Dyke
Keeper – Alisson
No whiff of a Mustafi there.
His hierarchy backed him (at the asking price for the players in question) – the rest is recent history.
We are starting from ground zero.
As for the others you list, I must admit to not bothering to study their dealings as only concerned with us – and it ain’t working.
” it the point you are starting from” should read –
“it is the point you are starting from.”
The owners are so crap, Arsenal is like an unloved orphan. We have an inexperienced manager who is drowning and the club is drowning with him. Nobody is jumping in to rescue the club from drowning. Not the owners, the board, Edu, Vinket, or anybody. What has Wenger got to do with it, leave him alone? We live in the ‘here and now’. We are ‘now’ crap…..right now. Replace Arteta with a ‘real’ manager and save the life of the club. The owners are the biggest football frauds….in recent football history, not one heartfelt bit of love for our historic great club and they haven’t the faintest idea what to do to save us from the drop.
Agree AJ that the starting point matters, but I also think that in Liverpool’s case, they had to start from ground zero or even less.
Klopp took over shortly after they sold Sterling and the year before they sold Suarez. With Sturridge injured, their famous attack was no more. They started rebuilding from less than ground zero if you ask me.
After Klopp arrived, he spent less than what Liverpool got for Sterling and Suarez on Mane and Salah. Salah wasn’t even a player he really wanted. It was down to their transfer committee.
A couple of years later, he sold Coutinho. The fee they got was enough to buy van Dijk and Alisson.
Yes they spent big, but they also sold really big. It’s perhaps easier for his hierarchy to back him when they just sold someone who could cover the combined costs of the 2 final pieces to the jigsaw
“Yes they spent big, but they also sold really big. It’s perhaps easier for his hierarchy to back him when they just sold someone who could cover the combined costs of the 2 final pieces to the jigsaw”
This is a great analysis
Again , very good points.
But where does the fault lie that for a number of years now we have lacked those saleable “assets” ?
Sell to buy and gradually re-build what we now are seeing is a spent force.
When living in the “self-sustaining” model, boy are you in trouble if you have nothing to sell – and this for me was the huge error of judgement, leading to where we are today.
Thank you Mark and A J.
The fault of not having big players to sell lies mainly with the managers and the hierarchy, partly the fans too. All parties have a part to play.
In the last 8 years or so, the managers and the hierarchy have failed to bring in players whose values appreciated greatly while playing for us. Think of all the high value signings since Ozil all the way to Pepe. None of them allowed us to recoup a big fee if we wanted to sell them. Whether it’s because we signed flops or we made them flops is up for debate.
Since moving to the Emirates, fans have been upset that the club hasn’t spent enough. To make matters worse, several key players rejected contract renewals and left. Fan anger grew and the hierarchy eventually understood that losing any more key players would make an already strained relationship with the fans virtually irreparable.
Bowing to fan pressure, the club broke its wage structure further and handed out big contracts to key players, instead of selling them. The reluctance to take risks and sell key players for reinvestment in new ones may appease fans, but it may not always work in the best interest of the club.
If Liverpool didn’t sell Sterling and reinvested in Mane and Salah or if they didn’t sell Coutinho and reinvested in van Dijk and Alisson, would they be where they are now? Now imagine if our club took risks and sold Auba in the summer on the back of his FA Cup final brace to reinvest in a CAM. Would we not be incensed at that time?
Since David Dean left our transfers have been dreadful with only a very few exceptions.
And David Dein was a businessman, and an Arsenal man through and through. He and Wenger worked well together and loved the club. It wasn’t about an investment but a desire for a better future for the team
It does matter that Kroenke is at the helm because he doesn’t understand the product he owns
Love this comment SueP – very well put.
In particular the last line.
In my opinion, Mr Kroenke has not got a clue what it REALLY means to preside over the footballing institution that is Arsenal Football Club.
AJ
So much is made of expenditure on players but if the personnel higher up the food chain are crooks or incompetent then that makes Kroenke incompetent too.
I read your post above to Winston and agree
David Dein is a good man. A true Arsenal man. Even Usmanov was an Arsenal supporter. S.Kroenke is not even an Arsenal supporter. Bizzarre!!!! He cheated his way to buy the club. Used empty words to con shareholders. Bad human being.
Lest we forget, it was Dein that brought Kroenke to Arsenal. PHW was initially spot on when he said “We don’t need his sort…” However, sadly the then board eventually succumbed to the juicy offer tendered by Kroenke.
David Dein was a master in the transfer business! With Arsene Wenger he made some of the best moves possible. When he left and the owner came in, that is when things changed. NOT after Wenger left. But whilst Wenger was still there. The players that Wenger himself were inclined to buy were so called “unpolished gems”, Bendtner and co. We all know who they were. So, before you blame every manager after Wenger remember, it was the owners and Wenger who made the decisions to go cheap. The squad and the success slowly dwindled away and mediocrity set in. That is why we are where we are as a club today. We turned Rolls Royce into a Lada. You get what you pay for. The money that has been spent has been wasted on players who were not at a level required to make Arsenal good enough or simply over bloated rubbish (Pepe). We also settled for Manure and Chelsea players who were past their prime. It was and has been a case of settling for what was left or who was willing to join. We missed out on the very best because players of a certain stature were too expensive or went to clubs with ambition. Clearly, Arsenal were not that ambitious. You could tell by them celebrating finishing fourth every year as an achievement. That was our goal and now we are suffering because of it!
In a nutshell GunneRay
Reddb10 you make a valid point. The Wenger/Dean era was good
I think Ken’s comment about the hundreds of millions spent on players since AW left on about 8 players plus young players promoted from the academy anhialated that argument for good!some fans said he bought shite players but those players were much closer to the top 4 than relegation with FA cup wins the same players under UE missed top 4 by a point I blame the players for not getting the necessary points going on a shameful run of at least 6 games with no wins and EL final somehow after having nothing to do with the new players being brought in, tactics and several hundreds of millions spent money that wasn’t made available to him I wouldn’t blame him for being bitter about it, few days ago Oliver Holt tweeted something similar to what I have been saying back when AW was still our manager and people blaming him for our decline and i remember saying that it was in fact the opposite he was slowing down despite a lack of financial backing well sadly it looks like i was right it’s been a downward spiral since then don’t get me wrong soon or later he had to go but the board should have had a proper plan and replacement in place instead of giving in to the toxic pressure from the fans they should have backed him for another 1 or 2 allowing him to leave with some pride left while giving the next manager time to get ready,also we had opportunities to get rid of players like Kola AMN Sokratis Mustafi players whom are not playing but some reasons mostly a matter of few millions they turned them down millions that would have been recouped through wages now we’re paying those same players for training not only that it would have freed places for other players Saliba MO come to mind,is AW responsible for giving 3/ 4years contracts to players in their 30’s?no!is he responsible for team’s selections,tactics,toxic divided dressing room,red cards,lack of creativity,is he the one still selecting underperforming players not giving other players a proper run of games ?is he responsible for MA stubbornness and his unwillingness to make real changes?no no and noi could go on lastly the irony and hypocrisy by some is unbelievable those who thought that finishing inside the top 4 or 5th 6th getting through the group stages of CL reaching EL final winning few FA cups was not good enough now think that being in a relegation battle is acceptable and bizzarely now winning a FA cup is a great achievement even calling the community shield a proper trophy when not so long ago they both were mini mousse trophies!!
You make valid points and I do agree with most, but when you mention Arteta being stubborn, I would point out that Wenger’s stubbornness was legendary. It’s a double-edged sword – I think most, if not all, highly successful people have a stubbornness to them
Another thing – I agree that Wenger probably slowed the decline, but it’s clear to me that it really started when we moved stadium. He has his name to that. There is plenty of blame to go around in terms of how arsenal got to this point, but Wenger is one of the major figures.
Yes! Wenger signed Bellerin, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Elneny, Ozil, Mustafi, Rob Holding, Lacazette, Aubamayeng. Emery came in on a shoe string budget and signed Sokratis, Leno, Pepe, Ceballos, Gouendouzi, Torreira.
Now between Wenger and Emery it is quite clear that that we still sitting with a lot of deadwood in this squad.
Wenger should have left some years earlier, but to blame him for the current situation is scapegoating anybody but the guilty and is ethically wrong. Kroenke and son and an unloved Arsenal, a vastly inexperienced Arteta drowning in his role, and various dubious characters like Sanllehi, shine a spotlight on the guilty. Players signed on statistics rather than ability and commitment…..and some overrated youngsters. You couldn’t make it up. It’s genuinely sad. We can’t get rid of the owners but we can get rid of some players who do not love club, and we can let go of substandard and ineffective, Mikel Arteta.
Blame the players, coaches, board and even the parliament if you like. At the end the buck stops with the owner.
He is ultimately responsible for the demise of the club. Everything else is just a side show.
That’s like saying. “Why did people still blame the 2008 recession for our economic troubles all the way until about 2015?”
Wenger shoulders some of the blame too because it’s him that had 20 years and the last 10 years were just constant stagnation and steady decline. Left us the foundation we are currently working with.
Left us bangers like;
£42 million – £350,000 a week Ozil.
£50 million – £150,000 a week Laca.
£35 million Xhaka.
£35 million Mustafi.
Not sure improving players like Bellerin on about £130,000 a week.
Elneny etc
Left us with deadbeat players that had no transfer value whatsoever. We had to make losses just to get rid of some of them.
Wenger overstayed for far too long, he finally dropped us out of his comfort zone (Top 4), Finished 5th and 6th consecutively.
Can’t blame wenger entirely but he gets a large chunk of the blame himself because he left us in a downward declining spiral. We are still working on the foundations he left because some of the average players he left us with are on massive wages, underperforming season after season and refuse to leave so that we can free us squad spaces and wages.
So some of the blame has still got to him.
Same blame for Emery and now Arteta. Mismanagement of funds etc..
My opinion of cause.
He did noy leave us if you remember he was forced out. For me if the man has said he has left us in better place with better finencial and football structure in place then I would rather listen to him who is an expert then to any of the other fans who have no clue what goes on inside the club.
Goonster, I much agree and would point to when Fergie left Man Utd in2011 as title winners. But virtually all in football even at that time could see and many were openly saying that team was already in decline and Fergie got out just intime to save his reputation.
Just like our club too, Man Utd made a constant stream of rank bad decisions after Fergie and made several bad managerial appointments but worse still, and by far , they made a great number of expensive rotten purchases which set them back many years.
Now nine long years after their last title, they are finally making progres but many United fans are still unconvinced and they still keep expensive losers and bad eggs like Pogba, who has great talent but rarely shows it. Just like us with Ozil and also with the many rank poor players we still have who just are not and never have been up to it; Bellerin Xhaka etc etc.
I don’t blame Wenger at all it’s just been used as an excuse. This is what has been happening if we win the credit is given to Arteta and Edu for fantastic job but when we loose then the blame is moved onto Wenger. Sometimes I think wenger has wasted his time and energy with this club with fans like these, who are so un great full. No respect at all for a person who has done so much for the club. We talk about club values and morality but look at how we behaved that our longest serving manager does not want to return to club to even watch us play. We donnt have any club values and athletics as some fans claim we have when they want to use it to hide behind it. What we did to Wenger and are still doing is infront of the whole footballing world. It’s only us who looks oberselves in mirror and think we are the Nobel ones, no one else see us like that. Have the fans ever given it a thought we won so many trophies under him, moved stadium and even still won FA cups in tons not to mention finsihing in champions League year after year. I don’t believe the bullsh*t fed by Wenger haters, all that was required was a little tweak to the system because it was working by keeping us up there but in order to compete for league championship we just had to tweak it a little bit to achieve success. As they say grass is always green on the other side, I think both club and fans are coming out that now. Same fans who use to mock Wenger for 4th place trophy and FA cup wins are now happy with this relegation battle and FA cup win because they like the manager. It’s no longer about supporting club now it’s all about supporting your choice even though it’s evident we are regressing day by day.
Mohsan, I agree with all you have said, but it would be wrong not to also point out he was not a Saint – he made mistakes during his time at the club, mainly signing some very ordinary, if not rank, players… in the belief he could change them into superstars.
I have been reading how he led us into spiralling decline year after year and that is one example of how fans are so wrong.
He should have left after the fantastic Chelsea fa cup win, one thing that MA has emulated it should be noted.
It was only in his last year, that no trophy or top four finish wasn’t not achieved and if we look before these two seasons, our league positions were 4th 3rd 2ND.
So where was the “spiralling decline” quoted by Goonster?
Even AW himself says he stayed too long and regrets that, but it was the belief that he could achieve more that led the club to offer him new contract.
So, when he left, there was a squad of players who had achieved something that, as this excellent article points out, in excess of £300,000000 of new players have failed miserably to match… let alone improve.
I do wish fans got their facts right as well.
Unai Emery didn’t sign any player, nor did Arsene Wenger sign Aubameyang or offer Ozil the contract.. they were all down to gazidis – someone Goonster doesn’t even mention in his breakdown of the Wenger years!!!
Double Standards?
It seems, in general terms, that Xhaka was one of AW’s failures. How many times has he been used against AW since signing?
Every day it seems on JA!!!
So what does MA do when a club offers a reported £35,000000 for him?
Talks him out of it and plays him in every game from then on… yet he is still seen as a Wenger problem!!!
Look, all managers make mistakes and AW is no exception just as UE and MA fit that analysis… but can someone with the views of Goonster for instance, explain to me why, with no defence spiralling out of control, a manager who had lost his way and a team of dross, lazy and mentally frail players, there was NEVER talk of relegation, player power etc in over it is claimed, decades of spiralling ineptitude, both on and off the pitch?
That is why this article makes such sensible reading, unless someone can give a factual reason to my question.
To think that a section of fans have so disrespected our most successful manager ever, to the point that he refuses to return to the club, is proof that we deserve everything that we are going through now – it is these fans who should be looking at themselves in the mirror, because it is the whole fan base who are suffering now, due to your complete misunderstanding of what Arsene Wenger achieved, with ALL HIS MANY FAULTS , under the ownership of kronkie and the disastrous time of gazidis.
Ken1945
Wenger was incredible and Wenger stayed too long. Both. But we are ‘here’, we are ‘now’. Arteta is just, simply, not up to it. If we do not act NOW (hate capitals it’s like shouting), we will take longer and longer to get back our credibility and football. Action is needed. Arteta will lead us further down…..down……down.
Sean Emphasis and shouting are very far from being the same. I use capitals often but entirely for emphasis , never to shout. Just explaining the difference, as many may not know, even if you do.
As a lifelong theatre person and performer I learned back in my early teens the huge difference between emphasis and shouting. Just to correct the facts about WHY capitals are used.
Wenger didn’t sign Aubameyang or offer Ozil the contract.. they were all down to gazidis?
Really? Wenger not consulted at all? Or he said no don’t do it and Gazidis said too bad I don’t care what you think?
Same like those if it is bad it is Edu. Not Arteta’s fault.
Of course he was consulted and gave his views, do you think I’m thick?
The final decision was down to gazidis and kronkie and, if you know anything about our history, then you will know that gazidis took over that role and then brought in the three musketeers, as he took further control of the club.
Why can’t fans just follow what the club OFFICIALLY Say, rather than ignoring them?
So what did the club OFFICIALLY Say about the view Wenger gave? Did he say don’t sign Aubameyang and don’t offer Ozil contract?
You say “they were all down to gazidis” like Wenger had no say or they went against him. What if they asked Wenger and he said yes then they followed his wishes?
Managers are part of the transfer team. Together they decide who to buy, who to offer contract, who to sell. Take responsibility together as a team please. Don’t be like those that if it works then it’s all you, if not then it’s all them.
Why are you asking me that, when the proof is right in front of you, if you actually analysed our biggest ever transfer of £72,000,000.
Unai Emery wanted Zaha and was ignored by kronkie and those in charge of transfer dealings.
Mikel Arteta wanted Aoura and was ignored by kronkie and those in charge of transfer dealings.
So why you find it difficult to think that this didn’t happen once gazidis took over responsibility from AW for said transfer, contracts and salaries I find puzzling… just read about the Griezmann experience and why he has said he will never play for our club, yet another gazidis responsibility, after letting Wenger down.
If you don’t have anything concrete then don’t say the club Officially Say. It’s just what YOU THINK.
You want to play think and guesswork, ok let’s play think and guesswork.
I THINK UE want Zaha. Pepe is his second choice if cannot get Zaha. Kronkie and gang try to buy Zaha. Palace want lump sum payment. We don’t have enough cash for lump sum. So ok they go for next in UE’s list, Pepe. Kronkie and gang never ignore UE. They try but cannot so they go for next choice.
I THINK MA want Aour. Kronkie and gang never ignore MA. They try 45m bid. Lyon want 60m. Overprice so cannot be done.
See I can also think and guess like you. I don’t have any proof that the club OFFICIALLY Say. Do you find it difficult to belief what I THINK?
There’s something most of us fans of football don’t appreciate-that signing new players is a gamble and it’s not simple to predict success or otherwise. I have been following this forum for a while and I can confidently say that most of us here were happy when we were linked to and subsequently signed players such as Xhaka, Mustafi, Özil, Pepe and Kola. We raved about them from their YouTube videos and their performances for their previous clubs. Mustafi actually performed well for the first few games. When did it occur to us that they were terrible signings?
What I am driving at is not unique to Arsenal. It is what it is and it happens all the time to all the clubs. Sometimes good players move and succeed, other times they don’t. A wide range of factors contribute to all possible outcomes.
To offer a bit of perspective, I’ll suggest some examples from other teams. West Ham’s record signing Sebastian Haller has failed to impress much like Pepe. Most expensive Gk ever Kepa has been a flop.Kai Havertz has had a slow start and the jury is still out on whether he’ll come good but age is on his side. Man U by far has had the most of the flops at huge expense as well including Di Maria, Depay, Pogba.
The main reason is that so many, including “Arsenal Legends” with and without gold toothed laughs, who were so embedded in the “Wenger Out” mob. All they needed was a young coach who had modern tactics, was going to come in and win the league since Wenger was out of date and drowning in mediocrity by finishing fourth every year while competing with teams having outsized , unsustainable spending.
Now instead of just holding their hands up and admitting that they might have been wrong, they are scrambling for excuses. “Wenger left a mess that will take multiple windows to clean up.” anything but admit that they were wrong.
But we were outspending most of the teams above us in wages. That was a big problem, and Wenger fought for that (to my understanding). That has made it harder to sell average players and contributed to the problems.
Also, I dont think anyone has to admit that they were wrong – Wenger had to leave some time, and things were getting worse every year to the point he couldn’t get CL football anymore. A change was needed and those who argued we needed a you coach etc could simply argue we got the wrong one or criticise the lack of a plan – I don’t think too many were hoping for us to get unai Emery, although on paper he wasn’t the worst option.
You see Davi, what your saying is wrong – it wasn’t getting worse every year and the only time he failed to get in to the CL, was in his last two seasons, when he missed it by one point his penultimate year, while winning the fa cup.
The three years before that, we went from 4th to 3rd to 2nd… so what are you talking about when you say “things were getting worse every year, until we couldn’t get CL”?
It is a complete myth, just like the claim we had no defence after 2006, at least we should be aware of our history, before making claims that have no substance.
As I said above, he made mistakes, plenty of them, but it seems that those who want to keep using him as a scapegoat for UE and MA’s short fallings, have no idea of what the club actually achieved – and I’m still patiently waiting for one, just one, of these fans to answer my question why was there never any talk of relegation during the twenty two years of his managership?
I don’t think blaming the current situation entirely on Wenger is appropriate. Yes, he was not the greatest manager ever and he did make mistakes like not being able to adapt, some bad transfers, etc. But who doesn’t make those mistakes. And well, if in spite of all the mistakes he still kept us at the top, then some of his philosophy must have been right! I mean, this was the guy who went the entire premier league season unbeaten, a modern-era record which has not been equalled in the PL.
I think the article correctly points out the roles of the subsequent characters. Also, Wenger left around 3 years ago. Let’s say the average amount of time that his ‘dross’ had on their contracts is around 2 years. Then if the board and subsequent managers(mainly the board) resonated with the fans and identified them as dross, they would have sold them. We could have got good value. I think Ozil was still a good saleable asset in 2018. Same with Kolasinac, Bellerin, Mustafi, Xhaka etc. Then there are other players who leave a lot to be desired like Sokratis(can’t fault his effort), Luiz(mostly for his errors but a model professional), Pepe(talented but very frustrating), Lacazette(never really prolific for us, but gets praised for being a cheap copy of Giroud in hold-up play). Now if the decision-makers who were left behind and the owners are not responsible for these things then who is? I think Wenger was taken out of contract duties from 2017 if I am not wrong. And I don’t think all ‘dross’ players have contracts last signed in 2017. Sure we declined(really fell hard) since 2016, but the amount of blame that Arsene Wenger gets for our fallen status is way more than he deserves. I don’t think any other club completely switched stadiums in the 2000s and at least remained competitive without any external cash injection (like Chelsea and Man City), on a self-sustainable model except our very own Arsenal FC? And I think we can assign at least most of the credit to Mr. Wenger for that.
Ok stupid timing with the Ozil bit as he had just signed his mega-contract, but let’s see a year before?
I want to be Arsenal manager. If players play bad don’t blame me. Blame manager before. Blame Edu. Blame owner. Not my fault. If play good then please say it is all me. Thank you.
And your reply to my question of the fact that there was no relegation talk during the twenty two years of Wenger’s reign?
Thank You.
I guess that city second goal wasn’t the keeper that MA signed was it?
Let’s blame Wenger for the decision that Arteta and Edu took to sell Martinez and buy a replacement for £1,000,000.
People who think like you and love Arteta will say let’s blame Edu. It’s all down to Edu. Arteta didn’t sign anyone.
Good things it’s all down to Arteta good coaching. Bad things it’s all down to Edu bad signing.
Like that I want to be Arsenal manager too. Players play badly because Edu signed bad players. We talked about who to sign but Edu has final say so anything wrong please blame him. Nothing to do with me. If players play well, then it’s all me because I train them.
What is your question? You say “the fact that there was no relegation talk during the twenty two years of Wenger’s reign?”. Are you telling me or asking me is it correct?
Let’s put it more easily for you then:
First of all, was there any talk of relegation during the time of AW’s twenty two years of his time at Arsenal?
If the answer is no, why not?
If the answer is yes, please can you give the season and where we finished in the league?
My answer is no. Many possible reasons. Good players, good coach, smaller teams in EPL weaker, etc. I don’t know exactly why. What’s your point?
My point is the theme of the article, what Wenger achieved and why is he being blamed for the current situation – if you can’t keep up with the subject, let’s not bother.
You ask me question. I answer your question. Then you say I can’t keep up, let’s not bother.
Never mind but next time if it’s what you think (like “they were all down to gazidis’ and “was ignored by kronkie and those in charge of transfer dealings”) then please say YOU THINK. Don’t say the club Officially Say. Please.