Why Arsenal are not winning? – Is it Wenger Or….

The curious case of Arsenal: a short analysis of Arsenal’s performances so far. By LmFaO.

Arsenal have been below average in terms of performance after the Community Shield.

Arsenal 2-1 Palace
Besiktas 0-0 Arsenal
Everton 2-2 Arsenal
Arsenal 1-0 Besiktas
Leicester 1-1 Arsenal

And now 2-2 against Man City at home.

The performances in all those games have not at all been up to Arsenal standard. So the question arises, who is to take blame for these poor performances? The players? Well yes, the players are somewhat at fault. But I think the person who is to blame for this is none other than Arsene Wenger. Why, you ask? Then let me explain.

Before I start my analysis, let me make it clear that I am NOT a Wenger hater. I have utmost respect for the man.

So let us begin, the main reason why Arsenal haven’t been at their best is… the formation.

Arsenal, for quite some time now, has been playing a 4-2-3-1 formation. But suddenly this season Wenger decides to change to a 4-1-4-1. Now, there are a few problems with this formation, but the major one is, no No. 10.

Lets break this down. While defending, after we win the ball deep, there is no one to pass the ball to other than the striker, who is high up the pitch and also isolated. So, one of the central midfielders has to run with the ball to start the attack. In this process if he loses the ball, we lose the possession or worse, become victims of a counter attack. While on the offense, as there is no attacking midfielder, both the central midfielders bomb forward leaving the holding mid and two central defenders exposed to counter attack. The latest example of this is the first goal conceded against Man City.

A playmaker is very important for a team. He orchestrates the attacks. He is the person you pass the ball to when you counter attack. He runs at the opposition’s defence causing havoc. He sprays the ball forward, feeding the striker and winger. And Arsenal are very fortunate in having THE BEST playmaker in the world in Mesut Ozil.

Now we come to the second problem, Mesut Ozil being played on the wing. Ozil has said publicly that his best position is behind the striker, and that its awkward for him to play on the wing. Ozil has been criticised a lot for his work rate and unwillingness to defend. But we forget, that that is not what Ozil does best. What Ozil does best is to tear open defences with his passes. Even when Cazorla and Ozil are played together, Ozil is the one who plays on the wings cause Cazorla is played as a central midfielder. Even though Wenger knows that Ozil should be played in his favourite position(At least I think he knows), behind the striker, Wenger is too stubborn to change the formation.

We should be thanking God for having a player like him at our disposal and be building a team around him rather than somehow fitting him in the formation.

The solution is simple. Change to 4-2-3-1 and give Ozil the freedom that he requires. Unless these changes are made, I don’t see us performing any differently than we already are.


  1. things look a lot better than last year although we got 3 draw in a row. one win and we’ll see a great arsenal. have faith gooners

    1. everyone on this website is damn blind to the truth!
      u either play with 5 defenders which is obsolete or you play with a GODDAMN CDM!

      1. Team to face Dortmund:

        Chambers … Mertesaker … Koscielny … Gibbs
        Wilshere … Arteta
        Sanchez … Cazorla … Ox

        1. You forget to mention that we played with 10 men throughout – That lazy F****ng Ozil is useless as an additive ot our attack. To think that for half the price we could have had the Fab back. Wenger is to blame squarely – Why play that lazy bastard when you have a fantastic footballer who is prepared to work his socks of sitting on the bench… Santi! Also… You cant expect to have a solid defense when you’ve got snails like Mertezacker trying to stop the likes of Silva etc.They dance around him like he does not exists – by the time he has turned they are 20 yards gone. I shudder to think what Hazard will do to him – leave him for dead. You cant expect Kos to bail out Mert every time he is left for dead by the opposition.
          Wenger remains a pig headed old man – He feels he has to play Ozil because of the stupid buy he made at that ridiculous price. Send Ozil to the 2nd side and let him learn to do some work or better still sell him!

          1. its funny how people say Ozil played badly because he was out of position.. if anyone has been following his career its on the wings that he made his name.. it secured him a move to Madrid from Bremen so that must mean he was pretty good there right? and damn straight he was brilliant there.. so people should stop making excuses for him.. watch clips of Ozil 2 years back and he was pure magic.. he’d run and run much like our Jack except he was even better at it… it was his dribbling ability that prompted the switch in position coupled with his amazing technique and vision.. now it seems he has disregarded all his speed, dribbling and ardour to rely purely on his vision now..(players reach that stage..look at messi. He doesn’t run as much with the ball) GAWD!! does he slow down play with that languid style of his these days.. he was so good a few years back.. the best.. if he had improved on that instead of falling back on it we would have thought 40 million was a bargain.. thats how good the lad was (hope he can get better)

      2. I was convinced that having failed to sign a commanding Dm, he would abandon the 4141 and revert to either 4231 or his most successful formation 4411.

        The current formation is more reliant on a commanding Dm and in flamini, arteta and coquelin we simply don’t have that. None of the 3 are very tall, none are very quick in fact I would say a better option would be to try diaby or chambers or even young Isaac hayden.

        For me our current squad is crying out for the 4411 formation or failing that the 352. But is more evident than ever that we have pace in abundance up front, but have no pace at all at the back, bar koscielny who to me still looks unfit and totally unable to play zonal marking.

        This is another thing we need to abandon, in koscielny we have a player that thrives on man to man marking, he is totally Martin keown like. Mertesacker would be far better with man to man marking too. We are basically getting caught out with this ridiculous system and the formation.

        I agree with the author to some extent, we have a squad full of no.10s, so what do we do? We play a formation without a no.10 – genius!!

      3. And you can’t play with 11 but only 10 are playing Ozil needs to either grow up and stop spitting the dummy out If your picked to play you should be gratefully not be so lazy to make it hard for the team Wilshere is now getting better and stronger Ozil Mertasaker and Podolski are the week link in Arsenal get players that give 100percent .like Flamani Sanches Oxy Welbeck Chambers Monreal Gazola Buy those types of players oh and Kosheny Sorry about the spelling CB

    2. This site is a joke and people are deluded or trolls. If Arsene Wenger had no tactical understanding then he would be nowhere near the Arsenal job. Arsenal conceded the least set piece goals last season with zonal markplus the shortest and lightest team in the league then all of the suddez zonal marking is stone age. New tactics take time to work particularly after a short pre sesson. Ozil has had no pre season and has been played for match fitness. Surely you can’t say he is a flop after 3 games? He played 61 games last season and in the world cup.

      1. Compared to Mourinho, Wenger doesn’t have any tactical understanding. And he is the worst manager in the EPL at making substitutions. Basically, he doesn’t make any substitutions before the last 10 minutes of the game unless his hand is forced by injuries or a red card

    3. Our defenses are exposed way to badly, against a pacy attack from Citeh. We missed a plot when we allowed Sagna/Vermalean to leave and the replacements in Debucy/Chambers are not as impressive as them. We lack a quality defender (like Kompany) to stop the counter attacks.

  2. We haven’t lost either. City lost to Stoke, Pool to Villa….let’s not read too much into it, as other teams have had some more questionable results.

    1. Man City have lost but they have more points than us and Liverpool are on the same points,it’s not about losing it’s about winning games 3points are better than 1,we should have won yesterday’s game a draw is an unsatisfactory result!

  3. We have a good team with some great players but a manager who does not use their skills to best advantage, a new manager with tactical nous, problem solved!

    1. A stubborn manager who waits until the 80th minute to make substitutions,a stubborn manager who continues playing Ozil on the left,a stubborn manager who refuses to buy the players we need now we left with a situation of playing Chambers,Per and Kos in the defence for every game until Debuchy comes back

      1. Yes, not buying replacement for Vaemalen and a CDM will definitely bite Wenger back..hmm..not Wenger, it will bite us. Chambers is good, but he is very young and will mistake at certain point in time, which again bite us.(not Wenger).

        1. Rpk
          its been happening for past 10 years, nothings change.
          his happy pocketing 7 millions a year and them akb balls lickers will support him and find excuse for him all the time.arsenal dont have real supporters we only have weneger supporters.for them his bigger than the club.

      2. My conclusion, Ozil is on a go slow about being played on the left. One of the interviews he even asked if it is the wings then let it be the right wing, not the left wing….

        1. Ozil is fragile and afraid to get in. He should play in the ladies league. There he may keep up with the pace of the game!

          1. Mourinho on Ozil I think it’s hard to criticize him,because Özil is Özil,’ ‘If you were expecting Özil to be super aggressive and to be running miles and miles from side to side
            and to show great enthusiasm and
            aggressiveness, this is not Mesut. If you are waiting for somebody where every time he touches the ball, the ball smiles.
            ‘Every time he makes a pass, the ball goes with the right direction, the right speed, the right intensity,
            this is Özil.’
            ‘At the same time, I learned with him because we were together for quite a long time, that he’s a very sensitive boy. He needs confidence. He.needs trust. He needs to feel that people is with him. When he’s on the pitch, every time he touches the ball, the ball goes beautiful.
            ‘And he’ll always finds the right man on the right place. So, sometimes, you don’t see him, sometimes he doesn’t go to screen
            many, many times. But when he goes he is a special player.’

      3. And you can’t play with 11 but only 10 are playing Ozil needs to either grow up and stop spitting the dummy out If your picked to play you should be gratefully not be so lazy to make it hard for the team Wilshere is now getting better and stronger Ozil Mertasaker and Podolski are the week link in Arsenal get players that give 100percent .like Flamani Sanches Oxy Welbeck Chambers Monreal Gazola Buy those types of players oh and Kosheny Sorry about the spelling CB

  4. revert back to 4231 pls. the 4141 is dislocating ozil.

    play ozil (or cazorla as backup; never both ) with
    b2b being wilshire (or ramsey; never both; i’ve never seen them both having a good game at the same time – too many chefs spoil the broth).

    ie in PL we can play cazorla at CAM, wilshire at b2b .
    in CL we can play ozil at cam, ramsey at b2b.
    rotate as necessary , but never ozil at left: that has NEVER worked.

    1. Old age is not treating Wenger well at all he’s become more stubborn than ever,he saw Ozil playing on the left for Germany thinking he can do it for Arsenal forgetting that Germany have the correct players all around to back up having Ozil on the left

  5. at LW, we have campbell/ox/podolski waiting and getting frustrated
    while we continue putting ozil at left.

    pls wenger: do a full rotation for DORT: have faith in your squad (or sell them!)
    we also have roziscky (who’s fantastic at CL) rotting on the bench.
    pls wenger: we want to see campbell, roziscky, podolski.
    and they will give rest to others so that they can be fresh against villa next weekend.

    1. Rosicky is better than Ozil now. I dont know wat d hell is wrong with Wenger. All we know is Wenger wants to promote Wilshere to no.10 than Ozil. Wilshere playing really well now. So, he should take-off Ozil for DORT game and bring Ox/Campbell or Poldi.
      It’s sickening to see them rotting on bench.

      1. Wenger is a pig headed autocrat who is never wrong!
        He knows has to play Ozil because of the stupid price he paid – if he does not he will look ridiculous having 42.5 mil sitting on the bench earning $200,000.00 per week.

      2. Rosicky last 4 PL seasons on the back of 4 seasons to bed in:
        86 appearances 5 goals 7 assists.

        Ozil first season:
        26 appearances 5 goals 10 assists.

  6. at LW, we have campbell/ox/podolski waiting and getting frustrated
    while we continue putting ozil at left.

    pls wenger: do a full rotation for DORT: have faith in your squad (or sell them!)
    we also have roziscky (who’s fantastic at CL) rotting on the bench.
    pls wenger: we want to see campbell, roziscky, podolski.
    and they will give rest to others so that they can be fresh against villa next weekend.

  7. Look at this way. We are still unbeaten.
    Did you see the way City started last year? They were more abysmal last year when they bought in 7 players.

    We have 4 new players starting for us all the time. We have to give it a bit of time. Also this is a new formation.

    We very nearly had City, our both the goals conceded looked soft. We had to work for both our goals where as we just gifted them both the goals.

    1. That is the poblem all our correspondents are pointing out – gifts to MC – Reason. A pig headed manager playing lazy Ozil and not buying the right palyers. Mert is far too slow – he should play in a snr league where he is capable of keeping up with the game.Players like Hazard of Chelsea are going to leave him for dead every time. Gibbs was on the bench – Savaz(spelling?) was leaving Monreal in his wake every time – when this was obvious halfway through the first half why was Gibbs not brought on who is pacier than Monreal?

      1. Yes, a draw is the best result. Not that it really matters since we are competing for 3rd or 4th place and not the top spot.

  8. Fool lost and the media claims they are rebuiding…

    Wilshere scores..Media reports highly

    if Arsenal were to lose to City….would have been slaughtered by the Media…

  9. Main reason is that Ozil has been missing for games now!!! He is just nowhere. Maybe he is exhausted but why after they had a break has he not performed at all? He doesn’t track back and defend and for me has been a total waste of money. Wish he would pull his finger out and play to his full potential. THIS is why we not winning games………………

    1. Ozil is clearly weak minded… The kind of player that easily lost self confidence, but this kind of problems are wenger ‘s problem.

      I can’t understand wenger, he knows that ozil is lacking confidenc but hey… Let’s help the lad and throw him to a wide position, he clearly has wha’t it takes to be a sensational winger! Ffs wenger, ox pod and campbell are better wide players than ozil, there’s only one positión for ozil in this squad and it is behind the striker or the bench. Seriously wenger your experiments suck

      . And it is not ozil only, santi has been average for most of the games with a very few exeptions, using players out of position is stupid… I still remind what happened with arshavin, cazorla was spectacular until wenger send him wide, now is ozil Turn. Same old crap but different season and different players. A normal manager would rotate ozil and santi for the 10 spot, rotate wilshere and ramsey for the b2b and use a front line of our better forwards: Sanchez,walcott,welbeck,Ox,podolski and rotate they. Why rotation? Because we are injury prone. But what we Have is wenger and he will probably never do such a logical thing . He will keep overplaying players, bringing very late substitutions, playing with only one winger, playing with no D.M and using the same tactis for every match.

      1. I think Ozil is on a go slow about being played on the left. in an interview he even asked if it is the wings then let it be the right wing, not the left wing….

    2. He isn’t have much confidence.. and that too playing him at Wings makes him worst. Wenger has to look into his issues, otherwise we will loose Ozil..

  10. Last year we had(all from memory) PL-
    Aston Villa
    West Brom
    Crystal Palace

    And lower league teams till November when we played Liverpool than ManU.
    And in December
    And than Chelsea.
    Where we came unstuck with one loss and two draws.

    I am not going to press the panick button yet.

    Now we-
    And than we have run of easy games.

    I hope we come out 3rd in the table after this run of fixtures.

    Than we will rise up in the table when we have the bottom 10 to play with.

  11. we should have won the game yesterday the difference between city & us was that we had flamini while they had fernandinho as cdm who made several interceptions/blocks flamini was responsible for 1st goal as well
    for the 2nd goal we had 10 men inside the box compared to city’s 4 yet we allowed demichelis a free header the zonal marking clearly isn’t working wenger should go 4 man to man marking

  12. What if we managed two wins against Villa and Spurs which I think we can do not easily, but its highly possible, and a draw against Chelsea which is very difficult but manageable. For that I think we have to improve our defense a bit and the link up between midfielders. My friend who is a ManU fan, praised Arsenal for one-two passes which I think if we improved would be a very good and different tactic in PL (just like Barcelona, they have very good one-two passing or we call tiki-taka) and in the final third we have to improve finishing which I hope Welbeck after getting a run of games will surely improve.
    (Also I have noticed we are not good in counter attacks very much, which I guess will improve with return of Walcott and inclusion of Podolski/Campbell/Chamberlain and Sanchez has already fitted in our team because of this type of play).

    Then we have a lot of mid-table teams to develop our winning run comfortably. And we can see where we stand in PL table and then decide.

    About CL games, Arsenal will have to perform good which I think they will definitely do.

    1. Villa will be difficult, and Chelsea will rip us apart… remember they have players that can run – they will leave Mert for dead as most opposition player do – Kos cant bail hyim out every single time he screws up and is left for dead. He simply does not have the pace to play at that level – may be make him a keeper where he does not have to do any running:)
      Add to this scenario that we will again play with 10 men as Ozil is an absolute spectator, (Wenger feels he has to play him cause of the stupid price he paid.) No chance against any side with a bit of pace. Also we were again exposed as the “soft boys” – MC knew very well that roughing us up would put us out of our rhythm

  13. hope theo comes back soon that will allow ozil to play behind striker than on lw & hope in jan wenger goes & buy a cb & cdm mertasacker too was slow yesterday & caught ball watching on some ocassiosns we need a new cb as well

    carvalho has already turned down a new contract that would increase his release clause to 40m player wants arsenal move

    1. Fact is that none of ozil, sanchez, wilshire ramsey or cazorla are very comfortable playing on the left wing. Walcott, chamberlain, campbell and gnabry also all prefer the right wing. It basically leaves us with podolski and rosicky who I think would jump at the chance of playing on the left. However you try the main problem is we have 31 players now in the first team squad, 3 are keepers and 8 are defenders. That leaves us with 20 players fighting for 6 positions and 11 for fighting 5. Is it me or does that look clearly unbalanced, especially when you consider that of the 11 fighting for 5, 3 of those players are 19 year olds. Ok so in the batch of 20 we have quite a few 17-19 year olds, but you cannot hide the fact that we have an inbalance of numbers, which needs to be addressed.
      Also we have only used 21 of the 31 man squad so far this season, 3 of those 21 have yet to start a game and 4 of them have started two games or less. That basically means wenger has been relying on just 14 players and clearly feels that many of his squad are not better than those 14.

      1. wenger: we should sell those defenders and get more attackers!
        and pls: lets buy some more cams and sell those useless left wingers like pod/roz

  14. Drop Ozil already.

    Against Dortmand

    Chamber’s Mert Kos Gibbs


    Sanchez Jack Carzola Ox


    In PL we can switch for Ramsey, Flamini, Monreal, Ozil, Campbell

  15. When Walcott comes back he will have no choice but to play 4141. The question is who will he drop? Santi should have started yesterday, again our build up play was slow and predictable and always through the middle. We are screaming for an orthodox winger to create some space in the middle for our so called B2B players. If Yaya played yesterday (luckily not) we would have been looking at 1 point dropped instead of 1 point gained. But surely we can only get better as it still looks like we are suffering with world cup hangover as there seems to be no cohesion or fluidity to our play at all. It all seems fits and starts…?

  16. If some fans said ozil can’t play in the middle cos without a strong DM, we will over run by player than who fault is this. Wenger buy players so he should know what is our weak point as a team or every players best or weak point. He chose the team, players go by his tactics, when the team not gel, he should be the one make the sub, make them play better as a team. BUT he just stand or sit the bench doing nothing. He don’t sub early if can he will play them for 90 mins just hope for the best. We can talk all the glory Wenger bring us last time but he did make some good players look very bad.

    Every pre match we can come out all sort of team selection but who care about your selection, Wenger don’t care. People got brain know why you put ozil on the wing, when you got players can play better on that position. So did Wenger feel they are not up to his standard than ozil? That is a very good ? Mark. You build your team as one direction.

    1. Ozil is played on the wing because it is not quite so damaging to have a spectator standing on the wing as opposed to him being a spectator at no 10. He is bone effing lazy and should not be selected until he understands that he has to work – like our boy Alex. What a player! We have Santi who is 10 time superior to Ozil any day – I would even play Rosc before I play that lazy fragile unwilling piece of humanity.

    2. Not always agree with Wenger transfer dealing, but to be honest we did well this window.
      Last season our first major problem is we do not score enough goal, when we lost Walcott we have no pace in attack. Wenger went and buy Sanchez. Giroud got injured and we do not have enough depth in CF, he went and buy Welback
      The second major problem is our midfield got dominated in big away game, we need an upgrade for our DM. We have been linked with DM for the whole summer so it’s clear the club is working on it. And Wenger also makes clear we want top top player, one in Matic/Fernandinho mould, not average like Mikel or Capoue. We failed to get Khedira (exaggerate wage demand), Bender (not available for sale and does not want to leave), Carvalho (unreasonable price for an unproven player). We are not spending stupidly crazy as United but we are spending serious money. No contract talk for both Arteta and Flamini mean a new DM will definitely arrive soon.
      New formation is to get the best out of our new player Sanchez and our boy Wilshere. Ozil is not our best player so what is the point of building the whole team around him now? He may be the most expensive Arsenal player but everyone should agree by now he is far from the best player in our squad. Instead of complaining about being stuck in the wing, he should improve his work rate and prove to the manager that he can cope with playing CAM in EPL. Even Silva and Fabregas get tuck in physical challenges more than him.
      What can be learnt from City match is that we are too slow from switching from attack to defence (1st goal) – possibly this is part of the work of getting used to new formation, who should push up and who should stay and cover – it will improve when the team used to the new formation. When Giroud is absent we got exposed in set pieces once again (2nd goal), player like Welbeck and Chamber should step up and fill that shoes – Chamber is particular at fault for the 2nd one (he is marking no one when the ball goes in)

  17. Come next summer window :

    Sell Mert, Flamini, Arteta, Carzola, Ozil, Sanogo and Poldolski.

    Maybe get 60mil and invest in younger, stronger and more gritty players.

    I would rather play inexperienced youngsters than Ozil.

    Maybe Wenger must play Ozil in u21 to send message

  18. I said it before in this site and I will keep saying it again; Wenger must be brave in dealing with the problems the squad is facing right now. He wants Wilshere in the advanced roles in the pitch (and from what we saw yesterday he has a point) but for that to happen he end up isolating one of his best players, Ozil. In defense Arsenal never looks as solid as should be. And now he losses one of the players. He had 6 defenders now he is down to 5 and Konsienly is injury prone. I suggest that he needs to shift from to with 3 centre backs at the back so that Ozil can find some room in the centre. Also, When under a quick counter from the opposition Arsenal end up having say 2 defenders to ward off the attack which in many cases ends up conceded. 3 man CB will ensure the back line does not need to travel so much in attack and end up being caught out. He needs runners in the pitch and the current Arsenal team has these runners in Ox, Sanchez, Welbeck, Walcott and Ozil’s ability to find the runners is currently not in play. If one of wingbacks is Sanchez and the other Walcott or OX then the transition from defense to attack will be super lightening and more chances to get goals. With Ozil and Wilshere sharing the room in the CAM and Ramsey and Flamini/Arteta are in the central midfield and defensive midfield roles, then all his problems will be sorted. Gibbs and Debuchy will have to learn to play from the CB area and rotation at the back with 3 defenders deployed per game will get us through the tough times, and get us lots of goals. below is my preference for next game, then Wenger should begin rotating at the back.
    Sanchez, Ramsey, Arteta, Ox-Chamberlain
    ——-Mertesacker, Konsienly, Chambers
    Now bring those thumb downs

  19. Arsenal are not a title challenging team – I think this is clear for all to see.

    Now that Debuchy is injured we have a situation where an inexperienced, albeit talented defender is now covering at right back. The trouble is if either Koscelny or Mertesacker gets injured then we have no experienced cover at centre back.

    This is all Wenger’s doing.

    I said that despite winning the FA cup last season we should never have offered Wenger a new deal , he is incapable of identifying the glaringly obvious flaws in the squad such as the need for a new central defender and defensive midfielder and I think that will perhaps cost us dearly…

  20. Let me break it down to you the 4-1-4-1 formation was a effective one to the arsenal werein özil was not asked but demanded to play on the left which I think wenger could do with the ox or poldi.wenger feels it is time to allow wilshere the chance through the middle agreeable but ozil can do better .
    1> when swans were leading the blues 1-0 they were totally outplayed after Jose changed it 4-1-4-1 won the match by 4-2
    2> arsenal cdm is not 6:3 like matic who doesn’t have to tackle just be disciplined .
    3>arsenal need a robust cdm and cb which wenger needs and not needed had he felt that he would have bought them.
    4>both debuchy and Monreal same time galloping forward none committed reason why Chelsea are going to win the league is because Arsene is going to say”i don’t like January transfer and we are open for defensive players” and when mourinho lifts it we need to congratulate them because they work hard for each other
    6>wenger is a frech village idiot true story!!!

  21. Please no more excuses for this guy, wherever you find yourself in the team put in a shift .he has just been poor lately.

  22. Arsenal fans we complain a lot. Was Weneger the reason why Debuchy got injured? Was Wenger the reason why Scezesny had to punch the ball in to his own net when Flamini was there to head it way. Guys grow up somethings dont work in life all the tiime.

    What we need to work on is to make sure we dont concede after leading a game. And not Ozil. He played well yesterday but some of you cos u already hate his game slay him. Dont worry things will get better.

  23. Maybe wenger did read our comment, he think his job is to prove the fans wrong so he just go against our suggestions and proved his is genius and alway correct.

    To destroy ozil oso part of his plan to show us fans expensive world class player will not prove any thing.

  24. campbell could haven been playing for milan or benfica….

    but wenger wants him to play for the u21…..

    thats a waste

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